Learning kung fu from videos

[bodhi warrior]

You always hear people saying you can't learn kung fu from videos. That you don't get the finer points and correction. Now I agree a new student with no experience would not be able to. But someone with years of experience wanting to expand their knowledge, I think could learn this way.
For those that say you can't, how is it that the old kung fu guys could invent styles from watching monkeys, cranes fighting snakes, or watching praying mantis', but we can't learn a style by watching a master perform his craft.
Yang luchan watched the chen family and practiced alone and was still able to beat all the chen practitioners.
So I would think it is possible.
Any comments please.

[Judge Pen]

Y
For those that say you can't, how is it that the old kung fu guys could invent styles from watching monkeys, cranes fighting snakes, or watching praying mantis

Because when developing these styles the older masters created the underlying principals that make the mimicked movement work as a human fighting style (i.e. the finer points that you probably need instruction about).

[MasterKiller]

You can learn anything from a video if A) the instruction in the video is clear and B) you work out the kinks with some live interaction.

I learned most of my kettlebell routines from videos.
I learned how to fix my drier from videos.
I learned a nifty trick for my wife from a video.
I learned how do a gogoplata from a video.

Videos are great learning tools. People who say otherwise are elitist.

[couch]

You can learn anything from a video if A) the instruction in the video is clear and B) you work out the kinks with some live interaction.

I learned most of my kettlebell routines from videos.
I learned how to fix my drier from videos.
I learned a nifty trick for my wife from a video.
I learned how do a gogoplata from a video.

Videos are great learning tools. People who say otherwise are elitist.

I agree.

And it helps if you have some experience in the activity when you watch the video. As a Wing Chun guy, I can pick out body mechanics and lots of little things that others can't because of the amount of time I've spend in the art.

When I watch BJJ vids, I'm mesmerized. I have little to none experience in it and can't see ANYTHING that goes on, LOL!

Best,
Kenton

[ngokfei]

I see nothing wrong with learning or being inspired from videos.

Have dabbled with some material I picked up from some VCDs i purchased but that is all.

One thing I'd like to see if you plan to teach others what you haved learned off of a video, will you be honest enough to let them know that.


You see, what individual would agree to learning fro a Video Master?:eek:

No one I know.:p

I can see obtaining a video from a teacher, copying what you see on the tape but then seeking proper personal instruction to make sure there aren't any mistakes and to learn the deeper meanings/philophies/principles behind the movments.

[bodhi warrior]

I see nothing wrong with learning or being inspired from videos.

Have dabbled with some material I picked up from some VCDs i purchased but that is all.

One thing I'd like to see if you plan to teach others what you haved learned off of a video, will you be honest enough to let them know that.


You see, what individual would agree to learning fro a Video Master?:eek:

No one I know.:p

I can see obtaining a video from a teacher, copying what you see on the tape but then seeking proper personal instruction to make sure there aren't any mistakes and to learn the deeper meanings/philophies/principles behind the movments.


I agree if you learn some material from video you should own up to it. I don't plan on teaching anyone other than my sons.

[TenTigers]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uerlqcAYMSo&feature=PlayList&p=B29D964019E9D2D6&index=8

[Luk Hop]

ngokfei
"One thing I'd like to see if you plan to teach others what you haved learned off of a video, will you be honest enough to let them know that.
You see, what individual would agree to learning fro a Video Master?"

bodhi warrior
"I agree if you learn some material from video you should own up to it."



I readily agree with these statements. There are to many videosifus out there in the world. A larger % than most people are willing to admit. Videos can be great, but please do not imply to your students that you learned otherwise.

[SimonM]

Ok, first of all most of the stories of masters being inspired to immitate animals after watching fights are just that... stories.

There is little documented evidence of most of these founder's myths. Furthermore there is a story which is quite formulaic across multiple styles.



Master (a) was out (meditating / going for a walk / recuperating after getting beaten) when he observed animal (x) fighting animal (y). Suddenly master (a) realized that the strategy used by animal (x) could be applied to fighting to succeed in defeating antagonist (b).

Now we also know that there is a certain shamanistic tendency in alot of Chinese folk religion. And we do know that many of the figures who are ascribed status as founders are figures of religious or pseudo-religious professions. Based on this we can infer that it's possible that shamanistic folk-religious tendencies snuck into the martial arts through these purported founders if they were, in fact, anything like the legends of them describe (monks, nuns and hermits).

It's also interesting to note that the most directly immitative aspects of animals occur within the empty-hand forms of these martial arts; this is of particular interest as we do know that for the majority of the history of CMA empty-hand techniques were considered secondary to weapon techniques.

So I propose this hypothesis: animal immitation in CMA has nothing to do with fighting better, notwithstanding founders myths, but is, in fact, a carry over from shamanistic practice that, while based on animal immitation, is not in order to create better fighters but rather to evoke the "spiritual" qualities of the animal in question.

At this time I don't have a research method to falsify this hypothesis and so it remains open, a matter of opinion, based on the above reasoning, and not irrefutable fact.

As for the original topic: Videos are of limited use. Certainly they provide no opportunity to test. That won't happen unless you have a partner to work with at the very least. As a peripheral study-aid they don't hurt.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I see nothing wrong with learning or being inspired from videos.

Have dabbled with some material I picked up from some VCDs i purchased but that is all.

One thing I'd like to see if you plan to teach others what you haved learned off of a video, will you be honest enough to let them know that.


You see, what individual would agree to learning fro a Video Master?:eek:

No one I know.:p

I can see obtaining a video from a teacher, copying what you see on the tape but then seeking proper personal instruction to make sure there aren't any mistakes and to learn the deeper meanings/philophies/principles behind the movments.

You should also man up to what you have learned from:
Seminar
Book
Internet
Informal training
Own experience
The experience of others
Divine intervention
Acid trip

[SimonM]

I've learned useful tips for ground fighting on the internet.

Thanks again to Master Killer for most of those. ;)

(IIRC Knifefighter supplied a few as well).

[bawang]

Yang luchan watched the chen family and practiced alone and was still able to beat all the chen practitioners.
So I would think it is possible.
Any comments please.

yang luchan was already a trained fighter

[TenTigers]

if you read Yang Cheng-Fu's book, he tells quite a different story of Yang Lu-Chan. In his version, Yang was taught at night, but not in secret, and he wasn't peeking through the crack in the fence, or whatever. There are so many styles that have a similar story. At this point, I think ALL the stories are just that-stories. It all boils down to marketing. Remember, when people were learning MA to learn to fight and go into battle, nobody cared about the name of the system, the origins, or the style. They just wanted to learn to fight. I seriously doubt if the people that train the infantry know the story of the origin of the bayonet drills.

[TenTigers]

I believe Rex Applegate had a dream where he witnessed a rhino and a gibbon having amorous relations...

[TenTigers]

at this point, more often than not, when I see or read something, it sparks ideas and connections to what I had previously learned, sometimes developing or refining what I already "knew."

[sanjuro_ronin]

I believe Rex Applegate had a dream where he witnessed a rhino and a gibbon having amorous relations...

Shhhh !!
last one to betray those secrets was burned alive and eaten by Somali pygmies from India.

[David Jamieson]

You can learn anything from a video if A) the instruction in the video is clear and B) you work out the kinks with some live interaction.

I learned most of my kettlebell routines from videos.
I learned how to fix my drier from videos.
I learned a nifty trick for my wife from a video.
I learned how do a gogoplata from a video.

Videos are great learning tools. People who say otherwise are elitist.

qft

.........

[bawang]

video no hit back

[SimonM]

Exactly Bawang. :p

[sanjuro_ronin]

video no hit back

They do in my hands.
I assume you have never seen "I come in peace" ?

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

For everything I was put through here for that video correspondence course I did in the late 90's, it is CLEARLY an established fact that you cannot learn anything from a video. Even if you are meeting with the teacher who did the video several times a year, you cannot learn a single darn thing at all.

Case closed...NEXT!!

[David Jamieson]

i dunno rd, i'm pretty sure you're obligated to wrap a statement like tat in tags.

:p

[SimonM]

They do in my hands.
I assume you have never seen "I come in peace" ?

ROTFLMFAO!!!!

Great early 90's pop-culture reference.

[sanjuro_ronin]

ROTFLMFAO!!!!

Great early 90's pop-culture reference.

Thank you, glad someone wasn't in a vacum then.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

i dunno rd, i'm pretty sure you're obligated to wrap a statement like tat in tags.

:p

Reply]
But I was serious!! Really, I was!! :p :D

[David Jamieson]

Thank you, glad someone wasn't in a vacum then.

"i come in peace"

"you'll leave in pieces"

in its day, that movie really really really sucked.

But it was great.

even with the major suckage.

[bawang]

learning from video corrrespondence is pretty gay

[SimonM]

Well it was a Dolph "Arnie Won't Touch This Picture" Lundgren movie, what do you expect?

[sanjuro_ronin]

I miss Dolph, his running around in a Hakata and hakama with a head band in Big trouble in Little China was hilarious !!
Of course I have a special place for Dolph in my heart, for obvious reasons.
:D

[David Jamieson]

I miss Dolph, his running around in a Hakata and hakama with a head band in Big trouble in Little China was hilarious !!
Of course I have a special place for Dolph in my heart, for obvious reasons.
:D

Is it because you're not realy a canadian ex forces guy but in actuality you are the freakshow also known as Grace Jones?

heh? hmmn?

eh?

:p

[sanjuro_ronin]

Is it because you're not realy a canadian ex forces guy but in actuality you are the freakshow also known as Grace Jones?

heh? hmmn?

eh?

:p

LMAO !!!
That was on freaky ass woman.
Its the kyokushin thing.

[David Jamieson]

LMAO !!!
That was on freaky ass woman.
Its the kyokushin thing.

ah yes kyokushin. The "one" karate.
i was friends with and worked with a kyokushin expert for a few years back in the nineties. Really nice guy, really into the whole karate scene. We only got to play tag once in all the time we knew each other due to us each being on separate martial paths.

He runs one of the main kyokushin schools back in my home province now and is ranked in K3 somewhere around 6th last I checked.

It's a cool martial art.

[sanjuro_ronin]

ah yes kyokushin. The "one" karate.
i was friends with and worked with a kyokushin expert for a few years back in the nineties. Really nice guy, really into the whole karate scene. We only got to play tag once in all the time we knew each other due to us each being on separate martial paths.

He runs one of the main kyokushin schools back in my home province now and is ranked in K3 somewhere around 6th last I checked.

It's a cool martial art.

Its changed a lot since Oyama's death and the insuing political crap.
I disassociated myself from it after my Nidan.
Too Many IKO's not enough evolution.
The off shots like Shidokan and Daidojuku have kept Oyama's vision alive more than the IKO's.