Fa Kuen

[TenTigers]

any info on this set, or video footage? I see striking similarities between Jee Siem Weng Chun, Hakka Kuen, and Hung Kuen. I was wondering if there are similarities to SPM's Moi Fa Kuen.

[t_niehoff]

any info on this set, or video footage? I see striking similarities between Jee Siem Weng Chun, Hakka Kuen, and Hung Kuen. I was wondering if there are similarities to SPM's Moi Fa Kuen.

Similarities among southern fist methods? My God! That's amazing. You should pat yourself on the back for that insightful observation.

Jeez.

[First Blood]

ha ha you say that but its surprising how many people cant !

[Shadow_warrior8]

any info on this set, or video footage? I see striking similarities between Jee Siem Weng Chun, Hakka Kuen, and Hung Kuen. I was wondering if there are similarities to SPM's Moi Fa Kuen.

If you have seen footage of Jee Shim Weng Chun Fa Kuen, why dont you share it so we can all view? Must be good.

Fa Kuen, i have seen 1 wingchun lineage, combine Shil Lim Tao, with another extended form(extension of Shil Lim Tao), into the form Fa Kuen

What was interesting was it starting with standing on 1 leg and clapping the hands 3 times. The rest of the form showed elements from SLT and Extended SLT. It had no similarities to other forms of Hung Kuen etc...

[TenTigers]

Similarities among southern fist methods? My God! That's amazing. You should pat yourself on the back for that insightful observation.

Jeez.

Thanks for taking the time and thought to post that clever reply. I was specifically referring to those particular systems, and perhaps those particular sets.
If you feel the need to post, could you please find something meaningful to say, and contribute to the topic, rather than just posting childish sarcasm?

Jeez.

[TenTigers]

If you have seen footage of Jee Shim Weng Chun Fa Kuen, why dont you share it so we can all view? Must be good.

Fa Kuen, i have seen 1 wingchun lineage, combine Shil Lim Tao, with another extended form(extension of Shil Lim Tao), into the form Fa Kuen

What was interesting was it starting with standing on 1 leg and clapping the hands 3 times. The rest of the form showed elements from SLT and Extended SLT. It had no similarities to other forms of Hung Kuen etc...

no, I was asking if anyone here had any footage, as I had never seen it. I have seen bits and pieces of SPM's Moi Fa sao faht, and I am facinated by its fluidity, and intricate coiling movements.

[t_niehoff]

Thanks for taking the time and thought to post that clever reply. I was specifically referring to those particular systems, and perhaps those particular sets.
If you feel the need to post, could you please find something meaningful to say, and contribute to the topic, rather than just posting childish sarcasm?

Jeez.

I'm sorry. But when someone takes the time to point out that they recently noticed that all fish have gills and fins, I think sarcasm is an appropriate response (assuming, of course, the person making that observation isn't a small child or mentally challenged -- and I have taken it for granted that you are neither).

[TenTigers]

I'm sorry. But when someone takes the time to point out that they recently noticed that all fish have gills and fins, I think sarcasm is an appropriate response (assuming, of course, the person making that observation isn't a small child or mentally challenged -- and I have taken it for granted that you are neither).

I understand that, and for the record, I have been pointing out the similarities in these systems for over ten years now,on several different forums, and have actually recieved quite a bit of flak. Mostly from those "High up on the totem poles." -go figure.
Only recently, have people been in agreement.
I think that is most likely due to more Mainland Gung-Fu becoming available, coupled with a new generation that has a fresh approach-one of practicality-fighting, rather than relying on forms and two-man sets.

[Hendrik]

If you have seen footage of Jee Shim Weng Chun Fa Kuen, why dont you share it so we can all view? Must be good.

Fa Kuen, i have seen 1 wingchun lineage, combine Shil Lim Tao, with another extended form(extension of Shil Lim Tao), into the form Fa Kuen

What was interesting was it starting with standing on 1 leg and clapping the hands 3 times. The rest of the form showed elements from SLT and Extended SLT. It had no similarities to other forms of Hung Kuen etc...



There are different DNA is Set.

and from the set one can trace the source....

[paulus]

I'm sorry. But when someone takes the time to point out that they recently noticed that all fish have gills and fins, I think sarcasm is an appropriate response
You think it appropriate to be sarcastic when someone doesn't know something and simply asks for information? I've noticed these kind of responses happening a lot on this forum and I don't know what the reason is... It's a shame really, all these intelligent minds, this common interest we all have in WC/VT/whatever. This could be a really good place.

We shoudn't belittle each other like this. I've avoided posting here in the past for fear of being humiliated, and I wonder how many other newbs have too.

[punchdrunk]

Don't let people scare you from posting, almost everything here is tonge in cheek anyway. The silent majority would welcome and appreciate you.

[Matrix]

I'm sorry. But when someone takes the time to point out that they recently noticed that all fish have gills and fins, I think sarcasm is an appropriate response (assuming, of course, the person making that observation isn't a small child or mentally challenged -- and I have taken it for granted that you are neither).Terence,
I know you're good, but maybe you could learn to resist attacking those of us whom you see as inferior. If the comments are that ridiculous, then just let them go. Have pity on us mere mortals. Picking on people you see as equivalent to small children or mentally challenged seems mean-spirited at best. ;)

Peace,
Bill

[bawang]

You think it appropriate to be sarcastic when someone doesn't know something and simply asks for information? I've noticed these kind of responses happening a lot on this forum and I don't know what the reason is... It's a shame really, all these intelligent minds, this common interest we all have in WC/VT/whatever. This could be a really good place.

We shoudn't belittle each other like this. I've avoided posting here in the past for fear of being humiliated, and I wonder how many other newbs have too.

do not be scare
he is just a random douchebag, come talk

[t_niehoff]

There are different DNA is Set.

and from the set one can trace the source....

Martial DNA doesn't exist. Nor can you trace "the source" from a linked set.

[Vajramusti]

Like languages, arts from the same region can "look" similar-but a closer look can bring out great differences. And when it comes to wing chun and other southern arts, IMO- the differences are greater than the similarities. "Short power", more hands, some techniques-phoenix eye etc
are some common characteristics...but how the styles get there are quite different.
Key aspects of styles include the fundamental stancing, the breathing pattern, the levels of tension. In wing chun there is no iron wire, no sanchin breathing, no dynamic tension etc.
The similarity of yee gee kim yeung ma in wing chun and hunga is supeficial, and toes in is different fro Gee Shim.

joy chaudhuri

[t_niehoff]

You think it appropriate to be sarcastic when someone doesn't know something and simply asks for information? I've noticed these kind of responses happening a lot on this forum and I don't know what the reason is... It's a shame really, all these intelligent minds, this common interest we all have in WC/VT/whatever. This could be a really good place.

We shoudn't belittle each other like this. I've avoided posting here in the past for fear of being humiliated, and I wonder how many other newbs have too.

Are you saying that you are so sensitive that it would humiliate you to have someone make a sarcastic comment about one of your posts? And that this possibility so frightens you that it prevents you from posting? In all seriousness, you need to grow a spine and develop a thicker skin.

[t_niehoff]

Like languages, arts from the same region can "look" similar-but a closer look can bring out great differences. And when it comes to wing chun and other southern arts, IMO- the differences are greater than the similarities. "Short power", more hands, some techniques-phoenix eye etc
are some common characteristics...but how the styles get there are quite different.
Key aspects of styles include the fundamental stancing, the breathing pattern, the levels of tension. In wing chun there is no iron wire, no sanchin breathing, no dynamic tension etc.
The similarity of yee gee kim yeung ma in wing chun and hunga is supeficial, and toes in is different fro Gee Shim.

joy chaudhuri

Confusing curriculum with the subject matter. These are all the superficial aspects of the curriculums.

[TenTigers]

hmmm, being drawn into the hijack from the original question, but...
the Tiet Sien Kuen, dynamic tension, etc were later additions to Guaongdong Hung Kuen, only four generations ago, and are more akin to lien gung rather than kuen faht..
Hung-Ga pre-Wong Fei-Hung was more of a short bridging system.
So, that part of the description is not applicable.
Not sure how the yjkym is different. Could you go into more detail?
Actually, Robert Chu would be able to give us a qualified answer, as he is well-versed in Wing Chun as well as Hung Kuen.

[Hendrik]

hmmm, being drawn into the hijack from the original question, but...
the Tiet Sien Kuen, dynamic tension, etc were later additions to Guaongdong Hung Kuen, only four generations ago, and are more akin to lien gung rather than kuen faht..
Hung-Ga pre-Wong Fei-Hung was more of a short bridging system.
So, that part of the description is not applicable.
Not sure how the yjkym is different. Could you go into more detail?


Actually, Robert Chu would be able to give us a qualified answer, as he is well-versed in Wing Chun as well as Hung Kuen.

What is a Hung Gar YJKYM does? how is the Hung Gar Short Bridging system generate power?

[TenTigers]

What is a Hung Gar YJKYM does?

not sure of the question.


how is the Hung Gar Short Bridging system generate power?
power comes from float sink,spit swallow. From the heels through the dantien,out to the hand, structure is connected, power is relaxed, yet alive.

[Chango]

I can't say that I know enough Hung Kuen to judge. But from what I've seen and practiced of both Fa Kuen and Hung Kuen I can see many simularities in the use of the core and the body connection to generate energy. I personally enjoy both systems! I think this question and thread has alot of potential to offer alot of insight! Speaking from my Chi sim experience I know that Fa Kuen is played from a concept and principle perspective. It has many layers and serves many purpose in training! I find it to bring alot of great information if you get a chance to learn it.

[TenTigers]

so the question remains; is there any footage of Fa Kuen?
SHOW US!!!!

[Chango]

I can't say that I know of any videos of this form on the internet. I can only say that if you get a chance to meet with someone of the Chi sim lineage it usually is a treat. I've met many representatives of many different lineages and I find them to be some of the most open and pleasent. You will find for the most part that they aren't shy about mixing things up in the spirit of training and learning. Thier Kiu Sau \Chi sau methods are very logical and application oriented! I'm sorry I will not be able to help you with footage! ;)

[sanjuro_ronin]

any info on this set, or video footage? I see striking similarities between Jee Siem Weng Chun, Hakka Kuen, and Hung Kuen. I was wondering if there are similarities to SPM's Moi Fa Kuen.

Humans tend to move the same within certain given parameters and with Southern systems tending to advocate certain things in common ( sink, spit, rinse and repeat), it makes sense that they will look "the same" and have common simialrities, regardless of "specialized" training sets.

[Hendrik]

power comes from float sink,spit swallow. From the heels through the dantien,out to the hand, structure is connected, power is relaxed, yet alive.


thanks

Is those who practice SLT do the same?


also, I am confused....

Is Float Sink Spit swallow a power generation process? or they are a reacting/responding/channeling process?


What goes from Heels through Dantien out to the hand?

What is power is relax yet alive?

[TenTigers]

thanks

Is those who practice SLT do the same?........no idea.

also, I am confused.... ...........join the club
Is Float Sink Spit swallow a power generation process? or they are a reacting/responding/channeling process?..............yes

What goes from Heels through Dantien out to the hand?...........your power, and your alignment

What is power is relax yet alive?......hard to put into words, but I will try; When you touch another's bridge, if you have too much foward energy, your opponent will feel this and draw you in,out, down, etc. If you are too hard, your opponent feels this and will flow around you. If you are too soft, your oppoenet feels this and collapses you. If you are relaxed,and feel your opponent's bridge, and ready to strike, you are alive. Cannot be stiff and alive. Rigourmortis.


this is my understanding, at my present level of experience.
Ask me again next year, I might have different answers entirely;).
Still learning, still growing, still evolving.

[Hendrik]

Thanks!





Is those who practice SLT do the same? -- HS

........no idea. ---TT

Ok, Those who do SLT speak out. ( may be Joy want to share some?)-HS









also, I am confused.... ---HS

...........join the club ---TT

Is Float Sink Spit swallow a power generation process? or they are a reacting/responding/channeling process?


..............yes ---- TT

What is Yes means? FSSS a power generation process or a reacting/responding/channeling process? --HS



What goes from Heels through Dantien out to the hand?-----HS

...........your power, and your alignment --TT


I dont understand.
How Could Power goes from heels throught Dan tien out to the hand? --HS








What is power is relax yet alive? --HS

......hard to put into words, but I will try; When you touch another's bridge, if you have too much foward energy, your opponent will feel this and draw you in,out, down, etc.


If you are too hard, your opponent feels this and will flow around you.

If you are too soft, your oppoenet feels this and collapses you. If you are relaxed,and feel your opponent's bridge, and ready to strike, you are alive. Cannot be stiff and alive. Rigourmortis. ---- TT



Do You mean the applied of power is adaptive to the situation instead of blindly applied power? --HS

[Hendrik]

Humans tend to move the same within certain given parameters and with Southern systems tending to advocate certain things in common ( sink, spit, rinse and repeat), it makes sense that they will look "the same" and have common simialrities, regardless of "specialized" training sets.


What is SSRR? What does it do?

[chusauli]

Which Fa Kuen are you guys talking about?

Yip Kin's Malaysian WCK?

Cho Ga Fa Kuen?

Nam Yeung WCK's Fa Kuen?

Gee Sim Fa Kuen?

Hung Ga and WCK have 2 different power signatures, even though both have a Yee Ji Kim Yeung Ma.

WCK's power is shot like an arrow from the Kua and lower back, and extension of the knees - very much like passionate lovemaking in a standing position. It is very relaxed.

Hung Ga has more tension in the upper back and shoulders and the bridge is more hard, with chest sunk, back raised, sunk shoulders, dropped elbows.

The waist is used differently in both systems.

WCK is not Hung Ga, Hung Ga is not WCK. Hey, well, CLF and Hung Ga are not the same either...

If we identify which Fa Kuen its a good start.

Also, I might dare say that Fa Kuen is not WCK. Fa Kuen (various versions) uses a lot of Nan Shaolin (Nam Siu Lam) mechanics which are definately not WCK.

[chusauli]

BTW, none of the Fa Kuen sets are related to Southern Preying Mantis, Chu Ga, Jook Lum, Chow Ga, Iron Ox, IMO.

There might be evidence that Chu Chung-man's Fa Kuen is not from Weng Chun Kuen at all.

Just my $0.02.

[bakxierboxer]

Hung Ga and WCK have 2 different power signatures, even though both have a Yee Ji Kim Yeung Ma.

Precisely what I wanted to say.



WCK's power is shot like an arrow from the Kua and lower back, and extension of the knees - very much like passionate lovemaking in a standing position. It is very relaxed.

I don't claim to know any form of WCK, but it does give that appearance.
(ok, I'm also kinda light in the standing "lovemaking" stuff) :o
(does this mean I'm lazy, or just that I appreciate the comforts of a well-appointed bedroom?) ;)



Hung Ga has more tension in the upper back and shoulders and the bridge is more hard, with chest sunk, back raised, sunk shoulders, dropped elbows.

I see "less" of that formation than you seem to (at least as compared to SPM)(minus the tension), and wonder how it is that you didn't mention the power coming up from the classical horse stances/movements.... which usually "work" rather intensively.



The waist is used differently in both systems.

Also true.



WCK is not Hung Ga, Hung Ga is not WCK. Hey, well, CLF and Hung Ga are not the same either...

My last/final SiFu had something to say about that.... but it's a "secret". :D

[TenTigers]

HG and WCK have two different power signatures.....

okaaayyy......I get that. But I been thinkin...and that always leads to trouble....

Hung Ga's Dragon has it's own power signature,
which is different than its Snake power signature,
which is different than its Leopard Power Signature,
which is different than its Tiger Power Signature,
which is different than its Crane Power Signature.
Its long bridge is differnt than its short bridge,
hard different than soft, inch different than raising,different than immobilizing, etc,etc.
Yuen Ling played HG different than Lao Ke Tong, who in turn was different than Ho Lap Tien, who plays different than Chan Tai-Hing, which is played different than Jow Wing Dak.
I know this, as I play with Sifus from each lineage-and they are all Tang-Fong, (we got this little "club," ya see...)
who plays it different than Lam Sai-Wing.
Both studied under Wong Fei-Hung-both similar yet different.

Duncan Leung plays it light years away from Augustine Fong,
who in turn is light years away from Leung Ting,
who, I'm guessing is light years away from Hawkins Cheung
-All came from Yip Man.
And that is only a few people, from only one line of Wing Chun.

Wong Yuk-Gong and Lam Wing Fai both studied under Chung Yau Jung-Both Jook Lum, both similar, yet very different. Students under Lam, also different from each other.
So..who is to say whether they are similar or different?

BUT...I was only referring to the Jee Siem Weng Chun Fa Kuen and whether there are similarities (not identical) to SPM's Plum Flower Hands, or Hung Kuen's short bridging techniques.(just lookin for clues, connecting the dots..)

It is interesting to see that one thing sparks another, which sparks another topic.

I agree with Chango-this thread has alot of potential to offer alot of insight.

[TenTigers]

"Do You mean the applied of power is adaptive to the situation instead of blindly applied power?" --HS
yes, exactly. Isn't that the way it should be?

"What is Yes means? FSSS a power generation process or a reacting/responding/channeling process?" --HS

it is both. it is a power generation process, as well as a way of reacting/responding/channelling power-it is derived from its structure,which is created to position the body to protect its vital areas, generate power,and positioning oneself. Attack and defense are one.

"I dont understand.
How Could Power goes from heels throught Dan tien out to the hand?" --HS

hmmm, I would think you of all people would understand this-energetically, as well as structurally. (personally, the energetics is where I am least versed)
you cannot simply have spinal power, or scapula rotational power. They are intertwined with the entire structure, however slight. The hand is connected all the way down to the feet, one thing out of alignment, and the whole thing collapses. Sure, you can break it down and yield with just the arm-in practice, but if your alignment is not there, your position is not there, your stance is not connected, under pressure of a real strike, it will collapse.

again, this is just my understanding at this stage in my development and I am just scratching the surface.
I only know what I have been taught, and what I feel from my teachers and Si-Hings' hand.

[chusauli]

Rik,

Yes, you now know why Hung Ga is so darn difficult to master! LOL!

Everyone has their signature, but that's made up of preference, timing, body type, intelligence, and ability. These are the components of style, as opposed to a system.

WCK is taught as a system, not a style, whereas Hung Ga is largely taught as "styles".

Yee Sifu maybe learned it differently from his Sihing-Dai from Yuen Ling Sigung. He was rather young when Sigung passed on.

As for WSL, Duncan, Augustine, Hawkins, LT - they all come from Yip Man system. They differ only stylistically, but the same system was taught to them all.

We have to be careful and look at teaching methodology, curriculum, style and system.

[chusauli]

[QUOTE=TenTigers;903420]BUT...I was only referring to the Jee Siem Weng Chun Fa Kuen and whether there are similarities (not identical) to SPM's Plum Flower Hands, or Hung Kuen's short bridging techniques.(just lookin for clues, connecting the dots..)
QUOTE]


Jee Shim Weng Chun Fa Kuen is more similar to Hung Ga and CLF than SPM Plum flower hands. Any dot connecting is coincidental in the pool of Cantonese Southern Fist to Hakka Southern Fist and Fukien Southern Fist.

[TenTigers]

Rik,

Yes, you now know why Hung Ga is so darn difficult to master! LOL!

.

yeah, I look at Hung-Ga like someone who was in a burning house (or temple) and just grabbed everything he could carry!;)

[TenTigers]

ok, ya lost me on that standing lovemaking analogy. Are we lifting her up and holding her against the wall, or is she leaning over the kitchen sink?
Maybe propped up on the dining room table...

straddling the ottoman?

bent over the Grand Piano?

Hanging from the chandelier?

Hey, you're not talking about one of those Chinese Basket swing thingys, are you?

y'know, not all of us have the luxury of having a trapeze in our bedrooms!

I'm gonna have to dig up that pop-up book of the Kama Sutra.

:p

[Hendrik]

Do You mean the applied of power is adaptive to the situation instead of blindly applied power?" --HS

yes, exactly. Isn't that the way it should be? -----TT

Those are very general. ALive means lots of things .
IE in SLT it can means the famous live and waiting to strike hidden half point....






"What is Yes means? FSSS a power generation process or a reacting/responding/channeling process?" --HS

it is both. it is a power generation process, as well as a way of reacting/responding/channelling power-it is derived from its structure,which is created to position the body to protect its vital areas, generate power,and positioning oneself. Attack and defense are one. ----TT


For me, FSSS is a power handling/ channeling process.

It is not power generation process.







"I dont understand.
How Could Power goes from heels throught Dan tien out to the hand?" --HS

hmmm, I would think you of all people would understand this-energetically, as well as structurally.
(personally, the energetics is where I am least versed) ---TT


These if not clearly define create big miscommunication.



you cannot simply have spinal power, or scapula rotational power. They are intertwined with the entire structure, however slight. --- TT


Yes and No.

The different between Lik and Jin. Yee lead or muscle lead are different.





The hand is connected all the way down to the feet, one thing out of alignment, and the whole thing collapses. Sure, you can break it down and yield with just the arm-in practice, but if your alignment is not there, your position is not there, your stance is not connected, under pressure of a real strike, it will collapse. -----TT


for me , still, power doesnt goes from Heels to Dandien and to hand.

[bakxierboxer]

ALive means lots of things .

One of those variable meanings is to phrase it "the way I heard it": a "live hand".

The best "translation" I've been able to put on it is that continued training eventually begets the development of "ganglionic responses".

Even better, it does seem to "work that way".

[sanjuro_ronin]

What is SSRR? What does it do?

You need to find a sense of humour first.

[sanjuro_ronin]

HG and WCK have two different power signatures.....

okaaayyy......I get that. But I been thinkin...and that always leads to trouble....

Hung Ga's Dragon has it's own power signature,
which is different than its Snake power signature,
which is different than its Leopard Power Signature,
which is different than its Tiger Power Signature,
which is different than its Crane Power Signature.
Its long bridge is differnt than its short bridge,
hard different than soft, inch different than raising,different than immobilizing, etc,etc.
Yuen Ling played HG different than Lao Ke Tong, who in turn was different than Ho Lap Tien, who plays different than Chan Tai-Hing, which is played different than Jow Wing Dak.
I know this, as I play with Sifus from each lineage-and they are all Tang-Fong, (we got this little "club," ya see...)
who plays it different than Lam Sai-Wing.
Both studied under Wong Fei-Hung-both similar yet different.

Duncan Leung plays it light years away from Augustine Fong,
who in turn is light years away from Leung Ting,
who, I'm guessing is light years away from Hawkins Cheung
-All came from Yip Man.
And that is only a few people, from only one line of Wing Chun.

Wong Yuk-Gong and Lam Wing Fai both studied under Chung Yau Jung-Both Jook Lum, both similar, yet very different. Students under Lam, also different from each other.
So..who is to say whether they are similar or different?

BUT...I was only referring to the Jee Siem Weng Chun Fa Kuen and whether there are similarities (not identical) to SPM's Plum Flower Hands, or Hung Kuen's short bridging techniques.(just lookin for clues, connecting the dots..)

It is interesting to see that one thing sparks another, which sparks another topic.

I agree with Chango-this thread has alot of potential to offer alot of insight.

Different "power signatures" for different types.
Body types
Personality types
Hung Kuen/ga is the type of system that can worl well for anyone, under the right teaching circumstance.
Making a tiger a snake is not a good idea, much along the lines of trying to make a striker a grappler because it is "en vouge".

[chusauli]

ok, ya lost me on that standing lovemaking analogy. Are we lifting her up and holding her against the wall, or is she leaning over the kitchen sink?
Maybe propped up on the dining room table...

straddling the ottoman?

bent over the Grand Piano?

Hanging from the chandelier?

Hey, you're not talking about one of those Chinese Basket swing thingys, are you?

y'know, not all of us have the luxury of having a trapeze in our bedrooms!

I'm gonna have to dig up that pop-up book of the Kama Sutra.

:p


The answer is all the above. Its all in the kua.

[punchdrunk]

I don't think you can generalise Wing Chun power methods, there is just too much variation from individual to individual and situation to situation. Just look at you tube and the variations in the forms. Now i don't know about Hung Ga or the other southern fists but they probably have a lot of variation too.
Now if there is any relation or similarity in the choreography of the Fa kuen from different styles that would be interesting if only on a trivial level, like finding Crane forms with a resemblance to Wing Chun. So please anyone share what they find.

[TenTigers]

finding similarities in the form-albiet on a superficial level, is still something that might (for all you naysayers) link the systems, or at least the origins, or earlier incarnations or contributions to the systems.
Sure, as systems evolve, their structures, theories,strategies,methods of power generation will evolve along with that.
I am not saying it looks the same, so it is the same.
I am simply saying that if it looks similar, than it might have common ground, and that is worth investigating.
(at least to some of us)

Let's also bear in mind that all the origins, stories, legends of snakes, cranes, manti,lions and tigers and bears (oh my) monks, nuns, immortals, temples, royal bodyguards, rebels, are for the most part fictitious.
I am not saying that they didn't exist,
but it is far more likely that someone learned one style, created his own variation, and renamed it, along with a nice story to separate it from its original source. Sure, it may have been practiced by rebels, monks, etc, but many styles seemed to have been, and I prefer not to get caught up in the story, and rather trace the DNA.
Don't you guys watch C.S.I.?;)
(I'm getting addicted to that show. That, "Kitchen Nightmares" and, "The Fringe.")
-Check out hulu.com (not enough episodes of "Monk")

also, if nobody can provide footage, perhaps an in depth description of Jee Siem Weng Chun's Fa Kuen would help.
Not only the movements, but the concepts behind them.

[First Blood]

also, if nobody can provide footage, perhaps an in depth description of Jee Siem Weng Chun's Fa Kuen would help.


Dont think your going to get a look in or description soon unless you walk into one of their schools..............they dont normally share information like this to the general public.

I guess they dont have to yet, its still an exclusive style maybe in a few more years as it gets more popular like the yip man lineage you will start to see more footage on the net.

[snakebyte8]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-PFgo9olig

0:15 to @ 0:35 and 2:00 to @ 2:30 you can see a little bit of the form. It's almost the whole form, but not quite.

[Chango]

I often show that video to my 9 year old daughter so she can see what she calls "girl power". It does not matter how many times she see's this video in inspires her!! :)

I have to admit Chi Sim Weng chun is one of my favorite lineages!! It's very clear and makes since!

[snakebyte8]

Greetings Chango...long time no see :)

[Wayfaring]

The only exposure I've had to Fa Kuen or flower fist is the Jee Shim Weng Chun version taught by Andreas Hoffman that we learned. Portions of it are seen in the above video. I am not sure of how it ties into other southern systems, but I have also studied a 5 animals system that migrated to Viet Nam. The "flow" in the 5 animals system was similar, and yet not quite as connected to the core.

The value to me in the Fa Kuen I learned was "flow" or "lau". This flow originates from the core. To me the value of this is as applied to ground fighting systems like BJJ - flow originating from the core helps transitional positions and movement. I also do some work on a swiss army ball for BJJ flow and try and incorporate the same concepts or feel. The same concept is there in judo kuzushi from the feet setting up throws. Also, the Dutch system of Muy Thai that I have been working with uses a lot of angles off from a front facing, and the flow from the core there helps make flowing to these angles a little more smooth.

I don't have videos of the Fa Kuen though, or the 5 animals stuff. But it's good stuff.

[Chango]

Snakebyte,
I've been away for a while! This week here at work I'm getting more net time. I'm getting prepared for a heavy work load in the comming week! The calm before the storm sorta speak!!!

I find that the Fa kuen taught by GM Hoffman offers a complete picture! From it's Heaven, Human and, Earth perspective I see a very complete approach to combat at all ranges. Flow is very evident as it is a live form in that you see connections from one movement to another! Very efficeint use of energy!

I'm sorry I will not be able to offer a video either! However in the video that was offered the form was played from start to finish (if I'm not mistaken!)

[chusauli]

Looks like Rik's version of my old set Mui Fa Kuen...