Austin Martial Arts Festival 2009 [Archive]

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ross henderson

01-03-2009, 11:09 AM

Hi, everyone. I'm Ross Henderson, one of the organizers of the Austin Martial Arts Festival. I'm going to try to keep this post short, but I'll be glad to clarify and expand on it, later.

First, thanks very much to sha0lin1 for the suggestion (obvious in hindsight) to get active on these boards.

As anyone who has been to this event knows, it has a lot of potential but suffers badly from disorganization. A couple of other things, too (like manpower and $$), but primarily disorganization.

My #1 role in 2009's Festival is organization.

For anyone who is interested, I've been having a monthly planning and status meeting at the Irie Bean Coffee Bar in South Austin. I'm using MeetUp.com to organize it:

http://www.meetup.com/The-Austin-Martial-Arts-Festival-Meetup-Group/calendar/9397012/

If you can't make these meetings, but would like to be in touch, you can get me at ross at amafest.org. Suggestions on how to do things better are particularly appreciated, but anything you have to say is welcome.

A couple pieces of news/information ---

Sha0lin1 met with me for an hour or two a few weeks back to give me his thoughts on the Festival, and to talk about him heading up the Kung Fu divisions (forms and sparring). I'm glad to say that he _will_ be taking this on, and I expect that the Kung Fu events will improve greatly.

Joao Crus will also be back to run the BJJ competitions, and I believe he will be including no-gi for 2009.

We're talking with a group of people that we feel will be good for the Karate events, as well.

We're working on San Shou. Just figuring out what the new legal rules are is going to be a chore. Jimmy Wong's Legends of Kung Fu tournament in July is running a San Shou event, so it's possible, at least. This is something I could use a lot of help with, by the way. We potentially have access to three very good officials, but we need to run the San Shou event officially and legally. Anyone want to get involved with this?

Also - there will be EMS at all future AMAF events. And plenty of good mats. The folks at Martial Way Academy were great about sharing theirs last year, but from now on we'll have everything set up properly. We've got a team working on this already.

Lastly - I'm going to post this on several forums, so you may run across the exact same words a couple of times. Sorry to be boring, but there are only so many Saturday mornings, you know?

xcakid

01-04-2009, 03:05 PM

Well since I am gainfully employed again, fingers crossed it stays that way all year. If so, I will be attending and competing. We also have 2-3 students at my school that is looking to break into San Shou this year. So hopefully you guys can get that going.

Anyone know if the Houston international will be happening this year?

Pork Chop

01-05-2009, 07:02 AM

When is this tournament again?

1bad65

01-05-2009, 08:26 AM

You should try and get a better referee for the San Shou this year. Getting one licensed by the TDLR would be the best way to go.

GLW

01-05-2009, 09:18 AM

Licensing and getting in line with the new laws in Texas would be a VERY good idea. There are several aspects that really apply but many tournament organizers seem to want to skirt.

The major one is that full contact elimination style events are not done. This was in there presumably for safety. In elimination events, you pit comp. A vs. B, C vs. D, E vs. F, and G vs. H. then the winner of A/B vs. the winner of C/D and the winner of E/F vs. the winner of G vs. H. Then the winner of A/B vs C/D against the winner of E/F vs. G/H....then you have a final bout to determine 3rd place if needed. So, the winners have fought 3 or maybe even 4 times in one day....lots of physical damage possible there. The cries against UFC types of backroom events made this type of carding illegal if I have read the law right.

Of course, Fraternities and such can get out of many of the rules....so is this one going to have a single day Frat. membership?

chud

01-05-2009, 11:08 PM

Hello Mr Henderson. Glad to hear that you are trying to organize things more efficiently. My only suggestion would be to try to make sure that instructors who teach seminars are compensated in a timely manner, according to whatever agreements are reached before hand.
Good luck with the festival.

ross henderson

01-06-2009, 09:59 AM

Hey, everyone. Thanks for the replies.

xcakid - Glad you'll be there. And good luck staying employed - I work for a startup and we've currently got enough to get to the end of Feb...

Pork Chop - we don't have the exact date, yet, other than October 2009. We've had trouble with scheduling conflicts with football games and another tournament the last couple of years, so we're (slowly...) figuring out the best October weekend. Should have that posted by the end of this month at http://amafest.org.

1bad65 - that's a great suggestion. I'll see what that will take. I think the people we have in mind to lead the 2009 San Shou event are TDLR licensed, but I'm not sure.

To be fair to Mister Hu, he is actually a very knowledgeable and competent person, but he was put in a bad spot at the last minute due to some mistakes we made. He tried to make the best of a poor situation. Won't be the case this year.

GLW - I completely agree. The San Shou event needs to be upright. I'm trying to get the Chin Woo association in Dallas to take me on as a volunteer for their Legends of KungFu event so I can see how they're doing things - they're running a San Shou event, and there's no way they're doing anything under the table, as big as they are.

I'll have to look into that 1-day frat idea...

chud - Thanks. Yep - we mostly cut seminars out after the first year for a number of reasons, but I really want to bring them back. I think they offer as much benefit to the community as the competitions, maybe even more. Proper payment of instructors is at the top of the list.

masherdong

01-06-2009, 08:27 PM

Ok, I have to chime in on this. I as well as some of our students competed in this tournament and let me say that we were very disappointed in how the adult forms were organized. I think I mentioned it in the "Austin Martial Arts Festival 2008" thread. Here is the link: http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-51792.html

Here is what I stated in that thread:

Ok, my opinion on this tournament was "what are they doing?" All of the adult forms divisions were all jacked up. Shaolin1 was in charge of all of the kung fu forms. From what I saw, he had everyone divided out in their perspective style, experience level, gender, and age. Then, Sensei Gary Lee who is one of the best kenpo karate instructors out there called everyone who is doing "kung fu kata" to come to the front. Sensei Lee used the color belt scheme and anyone who was 16 yrs old and up was considered an adult. Males and females competed against each other, and old guys like me competed with the young guns. The kids were divided by age group and that was it. One of our students went up against some jr black belts and she is only a beginner. She still got a bronze medal but come on. Then, weapons were all put together into one category. Staff, broadsword, double d's, 9 ring broadsword, were all lumped into one category. My wife lost the gold to someone who was doing broadsword when she was doing staff.

Then, I find out that there is no continuous sparring. So, all of the kung fu people who were doing continuous sparring were combined with karate point sparring. Man, what gives? Oh, well.

I thought this was supposed to be a kung fu tournament? They ran it like a karate tournament. If I wanted to compete in a karate tournament I would of gone to an AOK tournament. Anyways, we all still had fun and hopefully next year they can run the forms division like it is supposed to be.

Shaolin1, I thought you were doing a good job on the forms breakdown and they should of let you to continue to run it.

SHAOLIN1 FOR KUNG FU CHAIRMAN OF AUSTIN MARTIAL ARTS FESTIVAL!

Please do a better job at organizing this event. We would really like to see this turn out to be a good event.

GLW

01-07-2009, 11:19 AM

There will be two posts here. The first is to describe things.

Basically, the Licensing Board in Texas is to oversee all combative sports that are NOT light contact. This means that Sanshou and other full contact sports are subject to their rules.

Now, there ARE some loopholes regarding non-profit amateur organizations and colleges. However, they also require the competitors to be members a full 30 days before an event...AND elimination events are expressly prohibited.

Now, the state is like any other and not really going to come after you unless you make it obvious, have a noteworthy injury, or they receive a complaint.

I imagine that even the Taiji Legacy is having to jump through some hoops if they are fully compliant. But, they may be like most people in the state...and simply not know what is legally required.

For example, in 1995, the IWuF world event was held in Baltimore, Maryland. Maryland has a strong Boxing Commission. Basically, if there is head contact or the head is an allowed target, the fighters must be licensed.

Now, the IWuF event 'officially' stated that contact to the head was not allowed. Then they went on and executed the fights according to IWuF Sanshou rules...with all of the allowed targets.

One of the US competitors - who actually got a medal in his weight class - got a concussion in one of his early bouts. He finished the ELIMINATION competition with a number of injuries. Now, the fights may not have been on the same day...but some might have been...and the entire event WAS a simple elimination format.

So... in actuality, the 1995 event was illegal in Maryland due to the lack of licenses Boxing Commission officials and fighters...and it would now be illegal in Texas due to the Elimination style of the contest.

But it took place and no one was fined...due to no complaints... But an injury, disgruntled person, or any number of other things could make that be completely different.

GLW

01-07-2009, 11:20 AM

the pertinent laws on the books in Texas :

“Combative sports” means sports, including boxing, kickboxing, martial arts, and mixed martial
arts, in which participants voluntarily engage in full contact to score points, to cause an opponent
to submit, or to disable an opponent in a contest, match, or exhibition. The term does not include
student training or exhibition of students’ skills conducted by martial arts schools, or association
of schools, where the students’ participation is for health and recreational purposes rather than
competition and where the intent is to use only partial contact.

"Elimination tournament" means a combative sports contest in which contestants compete in a
series of matches until not more than one contestant remains in any weight category. The term
does not include an event described by Section 2052.110.

Section 2052.110.
If the contestants are amateurs, the licensing and bonding requirements of this chapter do not apply to:
(1) an event conducted by a college, school, or university that is part of the institution's athletic
program in which only students of educational institutions participate;
(2) an event which is conducted by a troop, battery, company, or unit of the Texas National Guard or
a law enforcement agency and in which only members of military or law enforcement
organizations participate; or
(3) an event which is conducted by an organization of the Olympic Games, the Paralympic Games, or
the Pan-American Games and in which participants train or compete for advancement to or within
the games.

Sec. 2052.101. Promoter License.
A person may not act as a promoter unless the person holds the appropriate license issued under this chapter.

Sec. 2052.107. Other Combative Sports Licenses.
Unless a person holds a license or registration issued under this chapter, the person may not act as a combative
sports:
(1) professional contestant;
(2) manager of a professional contestant;
(3) referee;
(4) judge;
(5) second;
(6) timekeeper;
(7) matchmaker;
(8) ringside physician; or
(9) event coordinator.

Sec. 2052.115. Promoter Responsibilities.
For each promoted event, a promoter shall:
Occupations Code, Chapter 2052 Page 6 Effective September 1, 2007
Combative Sports
(1) assure that all contestants scheduled to participate are licensed before the event;
(2) provide that an ambulance, serviced by at least two emergency medical technicians, is present on
the premises where the event is held;
(3) provide for a physical examination of each contestant that complies with rules adopted under this
chapter; and
(4) comply with all commission rules.

Sec. 2052.151. Imposition and Rate of Tax.
(a) A tax is imposed on a person who:
(1) conducts a combative sports event in which a fee is charged for admission to the event; or
(2) exhibits in this state a simultaneous telecast of a live, spontaneous, or current combative sports
event on a closed circuit telecast, in which a fee is charged for admission to the telecast.
(b) The tax is three percent of the gross receipts obtained from the sale of tickets to the event, plus three
percent of gross receipts received from sales of broadcast rights or $30,000, whichever is less.

Each contestant in the event must have been a member of the amateur combative sports association for the
30-day period immediately preceding the date the event begins and must be a member on the date of the
event.

Sec. 2052.254. Elimination Tournaments.
An elimination tournament may not be conducted in this state.

ross henderson

01-08-2009, 09:40 AM

GLW, thanks a lot for the information. As I mentioned, I could really use some help in getting this done right. Would you be interested?

If you would, shoot me an email at ross at amafest.org. If not, I certainly understand - and just having made those two posts is a big help, so thanks again.

ross henderson

01-08-2009, 09:51 AM

sha0lin1

01-09-2009, 08:40 AM

Ross,

Thanks for starting up this thread. I am glad you did it. As everyone can see the organizers are serious about turning this into a first class competition. Hopefully, everyone can overlook the problems of the last couple of years and focus on the improvements that will be made for this event. Like I have said, Austin, and Texas for that matter, really need another high caliber tournament. Hopefully those of you that competed and had bad experiences last year will come back and give it another shot and find a much imporved tournament.

masherdong

01-09-2009, 03:22 PM

sha0lin1

01-10-2009, 08:12 AM

Hey Shaolin1 hope you are well! Based on what I saw last year of how you were going to run the forms division, I liked it and it was the way it is supposed to be. I forgot that one brown sash's name, but he wasnt happy because not only did he have to compete with the black sashes, but the young guns as well. I have to agree with him, I too had to compete with the young guys too and I also had to compete in the Intermediate division. You and I discussed my experience. I only had 18 months exp so, I should of been in the beg. I didnt like it but I took it as a challenge for myself. Scott, if you are doing the organization, then we will try to be back. My Sifu wasnt too thrilled when he found out how bad the tournament ran. I will have to try to persuade him to get us to go again. Good luck!

Hey Masherdong, I am doing well, thank you, hope you are doing fine as well. I understand how your Sifu feels but again, we are working to make things better. The biggest thing we are working on is organization. From registration to the tournament itself. This year we will have all competitors organized in their respective divisions prior to the events instead of doing it on the spot. I think if you come back this year you will find a very different tournament.

ross henderson

01-24-2009, 02:27 PM

For anyone who is interested - I said I'd post updates here, as things progress, so here is an update.

As of this week, we now have qualified and committed leaders for:

* KungFu events - Scott Pettengill (Sha0lin1);
* TaiChi events - Dr. Jingyu Gu;
* TKD/Karate sparring - Ian Fauth;
* Kali - Larry St. Clair;
* BJJ (gi and no gi) - Joao Crus;
* Board-breaking - Ian Fauth

I'm still working on TKD and Karate forms, and San Shou. Would like to have Shuai Chiao, Wing Chun (could be included this year in the KungFu events), and Kuk Sul Won, too. But, my primary goal is to get a good group of events done well. If we can't get everything included this year, I hope we'll be able to expand next year. I certainly plan to.

Also, the monthly public planning meetings have been surprisingly productive and we have plans for improving the atmosphere and professionalism of the Festival in a number of ways. At some point in the next 4 - 6 weeks I'll be posting an announcement at amafest.org describing what people can expect at the 2009 Festival.

I plan to have the bulk of the Festival scheduled (schedules will absolutely be adhered to), by the end of February, and open pre-registration in the beginning of March. Am working on our online registration system right now.

There are a couple of other things in the works, as well, but that's as much as I'm ready to commit to, at this point.

blckavnger

01-25-2009, 12:40 AM

I agree with everything that GLW has said. I read an earlier version of those
rules before they were finalized and thats pretty much what i remember.
I know many tournaments including Taichi Legacy have flown under the radar
because these aren't professional events and theyare chinese martial arts
events; they aren't connected much with the boxing and mma communities,
especiallly boxing who right now controls the TLDR combative sports.
They also will do the trick as GLW stated and say non-full contact to
head or something which isnt enforced. Basically the combative sports
division isnt that aware of chinese martial arts tournaments (even big ones
like Legacy) and they have bigger fish to fry in MMA.

Again, its going to be REALLY hard to be fully compliant and run a full-contact
San shou. These next statements are things i've been hearing:
many texas kung fu teachers
with san shou backgrounds feel like its just too hard to do san shou in texas
with the rules and lack of interest (If youve seen alot of san shou in texas
theres alot of non-kung fu ppl). many of them aren't even doing them at tourneys
and organizing san shou elsewhere where the regulations are a little bit better
and theres more interest in the CMA community.

I guess you can either fly under the radar and get a really good experienced
san shou ref or try to get everyone certified which means probably alot less ppl.
Legacy only has mabye 2-3 ppl in shuai chiao every year since the early 2000's
but thats another story....
Coures having a connection with rudy vasquez who i think
is the commissioner of the
combative sports division now is probably the best bet.
He used to have a boxing gym in south ausitn...
OR just not do it; just have light contact sparring... theres alot more ppl for that
than san shou at the big tourneys anyways

When i heard Sha0lin1 was organzing the event, i actually thought about going this year; hopefully this is a step in the right direction. now if we can only
get some more qualified judges....

There will be two posts here. The first is to describe things.

Basically, the Licensing Board in Texas is to oversee all combative sports that are NOT light contact. This means that Sanshou and other full contact sports are subject to their rules.

Now, there ARE some loopholes regarding non-profit amateur organizations and colleges. However, they also require the competitors to be members a full 30 days before an event...AND elimination events are expressly prohibited.

Now, the state is like any other and not really going to come after you unless you make it obvious, have a noteworthy injury, or they receive a complaint.

I imagine that even the Taiji Legacy is having to jump through some hoops if they are fully compliant. But, they may be like most people in the state...and simply not know what is legally required.

For example, in 1995, the IWuF world event was held in Baltimore, Maryland. Maryland has a strong Boxing Commission. Basically, if there is head contact or the head is an allowed target, the fighters must be licensed.

Now, the IWuF event 'officially' stated that contact to the head was not allowed. Then they went on and executed the fights according to IWuF Sanshou rules...with all of the allowed targets.

One of the US competitors - who actually got a medal in his weight class - got a concussion in one of his early bouts. He finished the ELIMINATION competition with a number of injuries. Now, the fights may not have been on the same day...but some might have been...and the entire event WAS a simple elimination format.

So... in actuality, the 1995 event was illegal in Maryland due to the lack of licenses Boxing Commission officials and fighters...and it would now be illegal in Texas due to the Elimination style of the contest.

But it took place and no one was fined...due to no complaints... But an injury, disgruntled person, or any number of other things could make that be completely different.

1bad65

01-25-2009, 12:47 AM

Coures having a connection with rudy vasquez who i think is the commissioner of the combative sports division now is probably the best bet.
He used to have a boxing gym in south ausitn...

Rudy Vasquez no longer works for the TDLR. He currently has a gym in South Austin.

blckavnger

01-25-2009, 12:55 AM

yes sorry you are right, i just asked after i wrote this. sorry.

1bad65

01-25-2009, 01:25 AM

Actually it would probably be a good idea to contact him about this. He knows most of the guys at TDLR, and he has years of experience in combative sports in Texas.

xcakid

01-25-2009, 01:36 PM

the pertinent laws on the books in Texas :

Section 2052.110.
If the contestants are amateurs, the licensing and bonding requirements of this chapter do not apply to:
(1) an event conducted by a college, school, or university that is part of the institution's athletic
program in which only students of educational institutions participate;
(2) an event which is conducted by a troop, battery, company, or unit of the Texas National Guard or
a law enforcement agency and in which only members of military or law enforcement
organizations participate; or
(3) an event which is conducted by an organization of the Olympic Games, the Paralympic Games, or
the Pan-American Games and in which participants train or compete for advancement to or within
the games.

Ya know a lawyer can argue that:

1) Since Chin Woo is an accredited institute of learning, albeit in China, they qualify under the school/college exemption.
2) Since this institution teaches Kung Fu, this is mainly an intramural "invitational" competition. Invitational can be satisfied due to the announcements sent to various kung fu schools.

So that is how you can defend the Sanda event against the whole TX deal.

Oh BTW, there was one promoter in CA that use to have his Sanda events inside a gym of the military base. Which does not fall under CA laws.....
I'm just saying, someone should contact a nearby base to see if they would rent facilities.

So that is one option.

The other option is to have the AMAF be under Kousho, which also an accredited learning institute, in China.

GLW

01-26-2009, 09:51 AM

Arguing in court is a losing proposition.

If you are a promoter of an event and end up arguing something like this in court, you are there for one of a couple of reasons:

Someone from the licensing part of the state caught you and cited you for the violation

Someone was injured at the event and you now have a liability case and the legality of the event comes into play.

In the first case, what you pay the lawyer to argue the case may exceed the fines. What you have to pay to be legal may very well be less than the fines and court costs. (You would think that it SHOULD in any case since if the fines were less than the cost of being legal, there would be no reason to be legal)

In the second case, if you are dealing with liability, the fine points of "But we REALLY ARE affiliated with such and such school in China..." won't buy you much.

Also, it would appear that the competitors must all be members of that school...meaning for example, that at the Dallas event, every competitor must be a Chin Woo member in good standing.... Not bloody likely.

blckavnger

06-03-2009, 07:44 PM

Can we have an update on the tourney?

uki

06-03-2009, 07:52 PM

Sorry to be boring, but there are only so many Saturday mornings, you know?actually there is just one a week or 52 total in one year... same as every other day of the week. :D