NEW YORK CITY PRAYING MANTIS INSTITUTE IS JUST A FORMS SCHOOL

[marshal]

I HAVE VISITED A MANTIS SCHOOL IN MANHATTAN THAT IS RUN BY A TEACHER NAMED TONY CHUY,EVERY TIME THAT I GO THERE ALL THEY DO IS PRACTICE FORMS ONLY AND SOME TWO DRILLS BUT NO ACTUAL FIGHTING.NOW I KNOW THAT YOU HAVE TO PERFECT YOUR FORMS FIRST AND THEN PRACTICE APPLYING TECHNIQUES VIA TWO MAN DRILLS BUT WHEN I ASKED THEM IF I COULD WATCH A SPARRING CLASS THEY SAID THAT THE SPARRING CLASS WAS SECRET,NOW COME ON! WHEN SOME THING IS TO SECRET IT USUALLY MEANS THAT IT AINT TO GOOD,I MEAN I HAVE VISITED MANY SCHOOLS AND WATCHED THEM FIGHT AND PRACTICE THEIR SETS WITHOUT NONE OF THAT THIS IS SECRET CRAP.YOU LOOK AT THEIR ADVANCE STUDENTS PLAY THEIR SETS AND YOU CAN TELL THAT THEY COULDNT PUNCH THEIR OUT OF A PAPER BAG.SOME ****Y CHARACTER CAME UP TO ME WHEN I VISITED AND TRIED TO TELL ME HOW GREAT HIS SCHOOL WAS AND HOW GOOD HE HAS GOTTEN.WHEN I ASKED HIM HOW MANY TIMES A WEEK DOES HE SPARS HE TOLD ME THAT HE HASNT BEEN ALOUD TO SPAR YET. I MEAN WHAT THE HELL IS THIS JOKER TALKING ABOUT? I ASKED HIM IF MAYBE IT WAS BECAUSE HE WAS A BEGINER BUT HE TOLD ME THAT HE WAS AN INTERMEDIATE STUDENT AND THAT THEY ONLY LET HIM RUN THE CLASS ON OCASION,BUT THAT HE FEELS THAT HIS SCHOOL IS YET BY FAR THE BEST MANTIS SCHOOL IN THE CITY.I ASKED HIM ABOUT MR.ALBRIGHTS MANTIS SCHOOL AND HE SAID THAT THE LINEAGE THAT MR ALBRIGHT BELONGS TO DOES NOT DO PROPER MANTIS ,NOW I DONT KNOW ABOUT THAT BECAUSE I HAVE SEEN SOME OF MR ALBRIGHTS STUDENT SPAR AND THEY SURE LOOKED DARN GOOD TO ME.SO IF ANYBODY EVER VISITS THE PRAYING MANTIS INSTITUTE IN MANHATTAN MAKE SURE YOU DONT SPEAK WITH A BALD JERK NAMED CLOD WHO THINKS HE KNOWS ALL ABOUT FIGHTING YET HE HIMSELF HAS NEVER FOUGHT. GO FIGURE

hello people!

[Kiasyd]

Two things:

1 - Don´t use caps lock, please, it´s annoying. :)

2 - Among traditional styles, sometimes it is common to have a closed door sparring policy. It is also common that the student do just drills and 2 man techniques / practices before sparring. If you can´t see something, it doesn´t mean that it don´t exist.

3 - If you do not like the school, don´t go there. Quite simple. ;)

-- Kiasyd

[SaMantis]

:)

Yup, those caps are bad ... my ears are ringing

I take it you didn't like the school ;)

I'm sure there are a lot of other places in NYC ... if you're more interested in fighting than forms, there's a school out there that will meet your needs.

As far as somebody being stupid or unknowledgeable or whatnot ... you never know until you spar them.u

Umm ... yeahhhhhh ... that's grrrreat ... -- LumberghE

[mantis7]

Mr Chuy Is a gentleman and a scholar.. His teaching methods may not be to your liking but that goes in any place that you go and learn a skill.... Traditionally a prospective student sat in a horse ( ma bu ) for three years or longer... If you think that is usless. picture this after three years of sitting in a horse how strong do you think your legs are going to be or how great your root will be.... Now after this what is wrong with perfecting tech with out fighting...now i prefer the small hardcore schools like Sifu's( Carl albright) now like I said to each there own.. I can not comment on if Mr Chuy said those remarks or not.... Now if he was refering that our mantis was not as the same as whf lineage that is a old debate and a mote point..... I can see that the school was not to your likeing then go see sifu Carl and train with him.... IF not there are other schools that teach fighting right off the back.. I hope you have luck in your journey..

A TREE CAN NOT GROW WITH OUT STRONG ROOTS>>>


Victor

P.S every kung fu student always think there school is the bet it is called PRIDE in teacher and PRIDE in style and love of the art and the School and Sifu...

[Tiger_Fighter]

Let me first begin by saying it is unfortunate that you first impression of the school was less than what you expected "krangus". From my personal experience I have found the PRAYING MANTIS MARTIAL ARTS INSTITUTE as one of the more exceptional schools in the NYC area. I will not label myself as a martial arts "expert", for I am still young and have much to learn, but I have seen more than my share of martial arts in my time and I have found that most are lacking in both authenticity and effectiveness. I say and know that Sifu Tony Chuy School lacks in neither. Let us not forget that Martial Arts is more than a mere way of fighting but an art form within itself, and should be looked at as such. (although I would myself say that self defense is an important aspect of it also). I find it dishearting that you would make such assumptions based on the information that you got from one individual in the school. I can understand your skeptisim, but it should stay as that, and nothing more until you yourself talk to sifu or join the school long enough to be able to participate in a sparring session. Martial arts is more than fighting, tournaments and showmanship, unfortunately in this day and age this is all which "we" judge it by.

[marshal]

to me if you cant fight then dont call yourself a martial artist for that go and learn ballet or dancing thats whats wrong with a lot of the kung fu schools now these days,they philosophize instead of concentrating on applying against any opponent.why is it that the rest of the martial arts world laughs a gung fu fighters huh? wake up people!

hello people!

[Laughing Buddha]

Before I say anything else, I would like to state that I am a student of Master Tony Chuy. As Mantis7 has said, each teacher has their own style of teaching. Some prefer emphasizing forms, others prefer emphasizing sparring. We believe that until Mantis techniques are done so often that they become second nature, it makes no sense to spar too soon because the student forgets everything in the adrenaline rush and reverts to barroom brawling methods. As someone who has sparred before both in class and on the street, I can testify to that sudden "spaz" moment when adrenaline hits in the initial stages. And repeated doses of adrenaline from continuous sparring won't help especially when we still haven't mastered the technique yet. Some techniques may look powerful and easy but when applied without sufficient practice and "focus" behind it, don't really provide much in the way of destructive power. So we prefer drilling the student until the student doesn't even think any more and just reacts with the correct application of a move or series of moves. Is this so very different from Muy Thai?

Many people think our school is merely a forms school because we don't open our sparring sessions to the public. This is incorrect because our sparring sessions always end with a breakdown and critique of what we should have done and when. As you can imagine, this can be very informative to everyone, including the casual visitor. Now why would we reveal the details of our style to all and sundry so that they can analyze it? Unlike at the movies, we're not selling tickets to entertain and what we learn could one day save our lives on the streets so we keep our techniques very much to ourselves. We don't spar for glory or bragging rights. And I, for one, know that I definitely need more practice in my techniques even though I have had sparring and streetfighting experience.

-------------------------------------
A "Laughing Buddha" or "Dai Tao Fut" is usually found cavorting in front of and leading the lion(s) in a Southern Lion Dance troupe.

I speak for myself and not for my Si Fu nor kwoon, so any errors I make are mine alone.]

[ShaolinMantis]

Mr Krangus; I am one of the elders here. Back in the day when I started training if one had doupts about the teaching skills or training methods of a Sifu, he would slimply challage the master. If he was good enough to get past the senior studentt(s) he could then face the master. Perhaps you should be more direct with your complants about Chuy SiSook's teaching style/skills and take it to him personally. Before you do consider first he is a policeman, Student of Brendan Lai SiBak, and Chi Chuk Kai SiGung.
Good luck & Best wishes, please let us know where to send the flowers and cards...

ShaolinMantis-I

[Young Mantis]

I have studied with Sifu Tony Chuy for over 15 years and am an assistant instructor at the school. Having said this, I can tell you that you have a misconception about the school. I don't fault you for it because there have been others before you who also did not understand Sifu Chuy's teaching method. So, once again, I will try to explain it to you. You can also try searching for previous posts on this subject as it has been brought up in this forum before.

First of all, the classes you saw would have been beginner to basic level classes. It is rare that we allow visitors during our intermediate and advanced level classes. That is simply because the information taught during those classes are not things we want to share with the general public. Students must establish a certain level of trust with Sifu Chuy before he will teach certain fighting applications to that student. There is a responsibility on the part of the Sifu to not only teach the student correctly, but also to teach the correct student. If Sifu does not trust your character, he will not pass on techniques to you that you may use for the wrong reasons. So similarly, we will not allow visitors off the street to watch as we practice some of the more advanced applications.

Does this make it a secret? That depends on how you want to look at it. But every style, school, and teacher will have secrets of some form or another. Traditionally, every style was kept a secret, be it within a temple, a mountain, a village, or even a family. It is a Western idea that all knowledge should be accessible to everyone. This is a traditional Chinese Martial Arts school and quite frankly, not everything is free for the asking the first day you sign up. Ask Mr. Albright for the names of the last 12 forms of his lineage. He will not tell you because it is a secret of his lineage and reserved for only their lineage holder. Does that make those forms no good? I don't think so. Not all information is so easily shared to the public. As for Mr. Albright, as Mantis7 points out, he represents a different lineage of Northern Praying Mantis and quite different from ours but that's it. It's just different. Again, like Mantis7 says, that debate is old and senseless.

So since visitors are not allowed to watch the more advanced classes, how do you know whether or not we spar? I'll let you in on a secret. We do. I have done it. Many times in fact. With many of my classmates. Were there any outsiders to see it? No. Does that mean it did not happen? I saw the bruises and bloody noses that seemed pretty real to me. Does that mean then that the sparring was bad? That we are ashamed of our fighting skills and refuse to allow people to watch as we just slap and spit at each other? Just because you have not seen it does not mean it does not happen. Perhaps there are other reasons why we choose not to let guests watch those classes. We are not at school to put on a show for our guests and certainly do not expose everything we do to the public for your viewing pleasure.

It is quite possible that you spoke to an intermediate level student at the school who had not begun his sparring training at the school. We do not take sparring lightly. It does not happen soon after the student joins the school. The Northern Praying Mantis System is a sophisticated and complex fighting system that is very demanding of the student who wishes to learn it correctly. Forms are taught to teach proper technique. The postures, the movements, all the details of each technique need to be understood and practiced over and over again. If the student cannot perform the movement by himself, what chance will he have to use it in actual combat? Once the movements are learnt, students start practicing 2-man drills to practice the application of the techniques with a live person. This is a very crucial step that cannot be overlooked because it is during this practice that the student must master the details of each application. If the student cannot correctly apply a technique on a willing partner,what chance will he have to use it in actual combat? Besides the 2-man drills, there are also 2-man forms that take the drills another step further. The 2-man forms teach the student how the different techniques can flow from one to another, how to setup an opponent for a trap, how to link one series of techniques with another one. So the2-man drills and 2-man forms help condition the student for fighting. Sparring comes after this and it is now, after the student has spent years applying the techniques with a partner, that the student learns how to use them in a less controlled setting. During sparring practice, we learn to deal with the adrenaline, how to recognize opportunities for attack, how to minimize openings, and how to setup the opponent for traps.

Most students need to spend about two years in Basic leveljust learning how to move like a praying mantis stylist. The footwork, the power generation, all the different hand techniques and kicks, for most students this will all be brand new. After about two years, students move on to intermediate level where the 2-man drills and application exercises gets more intense. Much more time isfocused on the applications of the techniques and it isnt until the student has spent some time practicing the applications that he will be allowed to begin sparring. It is very easy for a school to have the students spar. Give them some pads, throw them into a ring together, blow the whistle and watch them trade blows. But how many of them can effectively fight with praying mantis techniques in 6 months? 1 year? 2years? We do not believe it is possible. There is too much foundation and overhead that must be taught and trained before the student will be able to effectively and consistently fight using praying mantis techniques and strategies.

There are definitely some schools that teach sparring right away. In my experience, most of them look more like stylized kickboxing. If you want to fight in tournaments, fight to win trophies, kickboxing is good. But we are not a trophy school. We do not engage in fighting for awards, medals, or just for the sake of fighting. If you are looking to collect medals, there are other schools more suited for ring-type fighting.

Our school may not be what you are looking for. That is fine, it is not for everyone. If you feel the schools philosophy and/or curriculum does not meet your needs than you should try some other schools.

YM

[EARTH DRAGON]

speaking as a shrfu and a schoool owner in 8 step praying mantis the above posts are true you cannot learn to run before you can walk.
And contary to what you said remeber fighting is the most basic level of kung fu , for anyone with fists can fight but if you think that fighting plays a major role in the understanding in the art of kung fu then you are missing the bigger picture all together.

http://www.kungfuUSA.net

[marshal]

dear young mantis i read your words and i would like to say that they made a lot of sense to me I APPOLOGIZE TO YOU AND YOUR SCHOOL for my lack of understanding.i truly see your point now peace.

hello people!

[Taijimantis]

Our school does not teach sparring in that way. We do 2 man drills, techniques and forms. Sifu doesnt really teach us to "fight" its just a fortunate byproduct of our training.

I have studied several traditional "standup" systems, Tang Soo Do, Tae Kwon Do, Shorin Ryu and some Shotokan. When it came to breaking down the hyung or Kata, many of the instructors couldnt tell me what the applications to the techniques were when I asked. Not so here with Sifu Ly. If you asked him or a Senior how a technique was supposed to work... you would understand after picking yourself up and dusting yourself off.

I have to agree. If you dont think the class is any good, go challange the Sifu. Granted, in our school Sifu probably wouldnt even stand up. From what I hear the last time Master Ly was challanged here in the states, he punked his challanger out with a look, and never even stood up...

But then what can you expect from a guy who holds a coconut in one hand and smashes it with the other?

At nearly 70 years of age?

Give the school a chance my friend! You may like it more than you think you will.

[HuangKaiVun]

Well done, krangus.