YKS gatekeeper? [Archive] - Kung Fu Magazine Forums

LSWCTN1

01-22-2009, 04:00 AM

clam61

01-26-2009, 11:58 PM

Vajramusti

01-27-2009, 10:38 AM

check out my one inch punch thread. i believe that is the tom wong you are speaking of

also check out

www.tomwongwingchun.com

on his site it says he is the official 'gatekeeper' of YKSWC outside China, appointed by sum neng
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Politics is part of life and it touches all lineages and styles and human activity.

joy chaudhuri

clam61

01-27-2009, 12:14 PM

well YKSWC is officialy recognized and documented as a legitimate form of KF by the chinese government.
sum neng was appointed official head of YKSWC by the chinese government.
sum neng then appointed tom wong the head of YKSWC outside of china before he died

sanjuro_ronin

01-27-2009, 12:50 PM

Vajramusti

01-27-2009, 03:04 PM

I am not in that line, but Rene Ritchie should know. From one of his essays I recall that Sum Nun's students do not have a fixed hierarchy. So I don't know about the term gatekeeper. In any case
as far as I can tell-Leung Dai Chiu has a very long standing in depth background in Sum Nun Wing Chun as well.

joy chaudhuri

LSWCTN1

01-28-2009, 01:48 AM

thank you for all of your replies so far

i was looking to find info on who may have got the full transmission from Sum Nung and, who was able to actually use that information.

Just out of a genuine interest that is all, thats why i mentioned that pm would be fine :)

also Tom Wong was declared the top outside of China in '89? is that correct?
i guess this would include HK as well as they didnt go back to the PRC until '97? Tom Wong certainly looks exceptionally talented!

kind regards

David

edseas2

01-28-2009, 12:12 PM

Opinions?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSAlsyQlrEQ

Ed

clam61

01-28-2009, 12:39 PM

yes that is correct.

from his site www.tomwongwingchun.com:. could be fake. you could contact these people and ask them easily so i assume its legit.

"The most powerful Lap-Sao and sensitivity since Bruce Lee . . . the best Wing Chun expert in America that I know of . . ." (Jerry Poteet, Bruce Lee's student, a Grandmaster of JKD, an author, and movie producer).

"Sifu Wong . . . very fast and powerful . . ." (James Demile, Bruce Lee's first student in the United States, author of Wing Chun Do, and a Grandmaster of JKD/Wing Chun).

"Tom Wong's Yuen Kay San Wing Chun style has certain depth and understanding that I have not seen in other styles." (Bob Ashby, studied, met, and trained with many famous Grandmasters, including Chuck Norris, Bruce Lee, and several Wing Chun Grandmasters throughout the United States for more than 40 years).

other quotes too but from people not so famous

thank you for all of your replies so far

i was looking to find info on who may have got the full transmission from Sum Nung and, who was able to actually use that information.

Just out of a genuine interest that is all, thats why i mentioned that pm would be fine :)

also Tom Wong was declared the top outside of China in '89? is that correct?
i guess this would include HK as well as they didnt go back to the PRC until '97? Tom Wong certainly looks exceptionally talented!

kind regards

David

Buddha_Fist

01-28-2009, 01:25 PM

who is considered the gatekeeper of the YKS system?

Mickey Mouse

:D

You gotta have a lot of spare time to worry about such questions...

clam61

01-28-2009, 01:37 PM

i think hes just trying to find the best teacher so he can avoid people like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_vvI26NnwE

Shadow_warrior8

01-28-2009, 02:00 PM

who is considered the gatekeeper of the YKS system?

i know Sum Dek? supposedly got the title, but are there others out there that know more/trained longer etc

i have heard (only read actually!) that Thomas Wong is tremendous, and also heard (actually heard!) that Kwok Wan Ping was certainly one of the better fighters

YKS system doesnt seem to suffer from the politics that Ip Man's wc lineage unfortunately suffers from, and if you would prefer to give your answer in private, then please pm me

all info will be greatly appreciated!

Does not suffer from politics? I think all wingchun lineages do, the more famous, the more prone they are to it.

Who's who is already known by their students and wingchun community in Guangzhou

If you read their language, here's their answer

http://www.kungfunet.net/bbs/dispbbs.asp?boardid=16&replyid=27961&id=208&skin=0&page=1&star=1

You can also call Yuen Kay San's grandson(who learnt from Sum Nung) to visit him if you really want to know more

阮祖棠老师 88576829

clam61

01-28-2009, 02:10 PM

what about this in particular strikes you as different?

Opinions?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSAlsyQlrEQ

Ed

Buddha_Fist

01-28-2009, 09:51 PM

i think hes just trying to find the best teacher so he can avoid people like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_vvI26NnwE

I think that he's basically asking for a teacher like that with this kind of questions...

LSWCTN1

01-29-2009, 04:17 AM

Mickey Mouse

:D

You gotta have a lot of spare time to worry about such questions...

I think that he's basically asking for a teacher like that with this kind of questions...

i actualy have a very good instructor, IMHO.

i ask because i enjoy wing chun in all its forms, and enjoy the history and characters of the art too

this is a forum, some people on here

(a) do enjoy all aspects of wing chun, sometimes that includes the history and other things that have no bearing on their own wc

(b) some come on here to share

(c) some come on here to procrastinate

(d) some come on here to learn something that their teacher hasn't/wont/can't shown them

looking back your previous posts, you and i are not in the same brackets

Shadow_warrior8

01-29-2009, 04:26 AM

yeah its good to do research isnt it?

I spent years reading up in English all I could about wingchun lineage starting with great books from Robert Chu, Y Wu, and research done by Hendrik, Rene, Jim etc.....too many to name, but they are all Giants in the art.

And then I went to the China Forums to start research, China Goverment websites etc.... a couple of years back and read great stuff too. Found that they had their say too.

Reckon we can share what we find without being too personal about it. After all we werent there, no one has a time machine, and at best, we can take all the information as stories we like to believe.

Essentially the two sides of the story could be different as night and day, but at the end of the day, its still 1 coin.

Buddha_Fist

01-29-2009, 07:53 AM

looking back your previous posts, you and i are not in the same brackets

And that's awesome. :)

Now go back and watch Star Trek...

LSWCTN1

01-29-2009, 08:14 AM

And that's awesome. :)

Now go back and watch Star Trek...

dunno what i have done to upset you :confused:

i was asking questions relating to a lineage that the UK has had no exposure to, some people were interested and replied, some were not

maybe someone's having a tough time at home...

reneritchie

02-08-2009, 07:42 AM

Sum Dek.

AFWIW: Many of Sum Nung's students were older than him and died a long time ago. Learning under the PRC many also have no desire for publicity or politics, and because they often trained clandestinely in the old days, only know of each other by name. Likewise, since most don't teach for a living, there are less incentives for bickering.

Yoshiyahu

03-03-2009, 08:50 PM

Does any of Sum Nung descendants still practice Wing Chun?

clam61

03-04-2009, 01:23 AM

yes his son sum dek. you can find a few vids on youtube. just siu lum tao. nothing special

Jim Roselando

03-04-2009, 03:59 AM

Yuen Kay San WC

Dummy Set

YKS Jong set: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXDE_2-Uhms&feature=channel_page

clam61

03-04-2009, 10:31 AM

Really bad quality and narrating and translating...but here is long video including intervie with Sum Nung

Shows Tom Wong too for a little bit.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8520428760600079916

Yoshiyahu

03-06-2009, 09:38 AM

Yea these videos I ran across before while searching very interesting.

I see some of Sum Nung SLT are different on youtube...I find that interesting too...

CoonAss

03-07-2009, 02:03 PM

There are a few YKS wing chun teachers in the USA. Some or most, may teach privately or very small groups.

I know of T. Wong, and I here he i exceptional. Unfortunately I have never had the opportunity to meet him.

YKSWC, typically, does not seem to advertise much - probably due to personal and specific reasons.

I know there are some instructors in Washington D.C. Area, Mississippi and Virginia (I believe). These individuals come from the Sum Nung/Kwok wan Ping line. VERY GOOD stuff if you ask me. I have studied different versions in the past of Hong Kong WC.

If anyone would like more information, PM me.

reneritchie

03-07-2009, 11:21 PM

Leung Dai-Chiu sibak is another one. He's actually one of Sum Nung's earliest students still active, and he's in the US. He visited our group once -- though sadly I was out of town on business and missed seeing him -- and the depth of his knowledge is amazing.

He's almost impossible to find, though I know at least a couple people who've either visited or trained with him.

Sum Nung praised Leung sibak's preservation of the WCK forms, and that's pretty spectacular praise indeed.

Yoshiyahu

03-08-2009, 12:40 AM

Very interesting where is your group located at Ritchie?

Leung Dai-Chiu sibak is another one. He's actually one of Sum Nung's earliest students still active, and he's in the US. He visited our group once -- though sadly I was out of town on business and missed seeing him -- and the depth of his knowledge is amazing.

He's almost impossible to find, though I know at least a couple people who've either visited or trained with him.

Sum Nung praised Leung sibak's preservation of the WCK forms, and that's pretty spectacular praise indeed.

JT1125

03-09-2009, 01:15 PM

Leung Dai-Chiu is a family friend, he spends half the year in HK and the other half in NY. He speaks very little English and you won't find him unless you know him personally.

Yoshiyahu

03-09-2009, 01:23 PM

Why so secreative?

Leung Dai-Chiu is a family friend, he spends half the year in HK and the other half in NY. He speaks very little English and you won't find him unless you know him personally.

JT1125

03-09-2009, 01:30 PM

Why so secreative?

hm, not really sure...guess he's like YKS; not really into the fame

clam61

03-09-2009, 02:13 PM

most likely he, like tom wong and others, have paid for their training with blood and treasure (lots of it! very expensive to be an indoor student)

they preserve the culture of secrecy in CMA and will only teach the most valuable stuff to trusted students

reneritchie

03-10-2009, 02:32 PM

Sweat and blood was definitely the currency at Sigungs. Even in his 70s, he worked hands-on, one-on-one. He said he needed to sweat with you so you could feel it. Truly awesome teacher.

FWIW, however, I don't think it's fair to say inner door and money were linked. The cultural revolution and communism were hard times and most of his early (and he would say best) students were in the unions with him well before China opened. They definitely bled together long before money became realistic.

Later, sure, especially when HK opened up people paid for status. Sigung figured if you wanted to throw money at him, who was he to refuse? But he also knew you couldn't buy WCK. He said he could show you all the forms in a day, but they meant nothing if you couldn't use every move.

Like you said, the good ones were all the sweat and blood ones.

BTW- Thanks for bring back the great memories :)

clam61

03-10-2009, 03:48 PM

I don't think it's fair to say inner door and money were linked

they definitely are. private teaching always cost boatloads. yip man had to pay lots. he was from a rich family. yuen kay san never worked a day in his life. the list goes on.

i dont know how much sum nung charged during those hard times. he probably had to ride the market like everyone else and lower his fees, but historically kung fu was always a very expensive luxury taught to the wealthy.

reneritchie

03-10-2009, 05:42 PM

Sum Nung learned from Yuen Kay-San after the Japanese cut off his family's access to their money, and many of his students learned during the cultural revolution where, if you worked harder, they gave you the same amount of rice. If you had more children, they gave you the same amount of rice.

At times, you're correct. Money meant something. Other times, other things meant more.

And never did money buy Sum Nung's art, of course (I know you know that, but just in case people read the post incorrectly).

Hendrik

03-10-2009, 06:23 PM

they definitely are. private teaching always cost boatloads. ............ historically kung fu was always a very expensive luxury taught to the wealthy.

Speaking about older generation, things vary.

I practically paid nothing to my sifu late Gm Cho Hong Choy to learn Yik Kam's WCK.
My late sifu told me, one of the reason sifu's collect lots of money is to make the student take it serious.

Also, in China, often the student invite the sifu to stay/live with them so that the student taking care of the sifu's old age.

clam61

03-10-2009, 06:26 PM

great points as always rene, but sum nung actually charged a lot of money to teach. this is not to say that he was a sellout. he didnt teach anyone and was very selective and secretive about techniques. he generally was against filming (although he did at one point) and he didnt like books being written about WC either.

i cant speak for his cultural revolution days, but afterwards it didnt come cheap.

im saying in general KF costs a lot to learn. there can be exceptions due to unique circumstances.