OT: NO Global Warming

[sanjuro_ronin]

http://www.mlive.com/opinion/flint/index.ssf/2009/01/its_time_to_pray_for_global_wa.html

It's time to pray for global warming, says Flint Journal columnist John Tomlinson
by John Tomlinson | Flint Journal Columnist
Monday January 19, 2009, 4:20 AM



If you're wondering why North America is starting to resemble nuclear winter, then you missed the news.

At December's U.N. Global Warming conference in Poznan, Poland, 650 of the world's top climatologists stood up and said man-made global warming is a media generated myth without basis. Said climatologist Dr. David Gee, Chairman of the International Geological Congress, "For how many years must the planet cool before we begin to understand that the planet is not warming?"

I asked myself, why would such obviously smart guy say such a ridiculous thing? But it turns out he's right.

The earth's temperature peaked in 1998. It's been falling ever since; it dropped dramatically in 2007 and got worse in 2008, when temperatures touched 1980 levels.

Meanwhile, the University of Illinois' Arctic Climate Research Center released conclusive satellite photos showing that Arctic ice is back to 1979 levels. What's more, measurements of Antarctic ice now show that its accumulation is up 5 percent since 1980.

In other words, during what was supposed to be massive global warming, the biggest chunks of ice on earth grew larger. Just as an aside, do you remember when the hole in the ozone layer was going to melt Antarctica? But don't worry, we're safe now, that was the nineties.

Dr. Kunihiko, Chancellor of Japan's Institute of Science and Technology said this: "CO2 emissions make absolutely no difference one way or the other ... every scientist knows this, but it doesn't pay to say so." Now why would a learned man say such a crazy thing?

This is where the looney left gets lost. Their mantra is atmospheric CO2 levels are escalating and this is unquestionably causing earth's temperature rise. But ask yourself -- if global temperatures are experiencing the biggest sustained drop in decades, while CO2 levels continue to rise -- how can it be true?

Ironically, in spite of being shown false, we must now pray for it. Because a massive study, just released by the Russian Government, contains overwhelming evidence that earth is on the verge of another Ice Age.

Based on core samples from Russia's Vostok Station in Antarctica, we now know earth's atmosphere and temperature for the last 420,000 years. This evidence suggests that the 12,000 years of warmth we call the Holocene period is over.

Apparently, we're headed into an ice age of about 100,000 years -- give or take. As for CO2 levels, core samples show conclusively they follow the earth's temperature rise, not lead it.

It turns out CO2 fluctuations follow the change in sea temperature. As water temperatures rise, oceans release additional dissolved CO2 -- like opening a warm brewsky.

To think, early last year, liberals suggested we spend 45 trillion dollars and give up five million jobs to fix global warming. But there is good news: now that we don't have to spend any of that money, we can give it all to the banks.

John Tomlinson is a local conservative columnist for The Flint Journal. He lives in the Genesee County area. You can e-mail him. Read more columns by John Tomlinson.

[TenTigers]

we haven't had a brutal winter in a long time. So far, we've had two weeks where the temps got in the teens and twenties, which is not out of the norm. Last winter was mild. I haven't noticed much difference since the sixties, and seventies.
(in the sixties, I was out every day in the snow, playing. In the seventies, I didn't drive until I was 17, so I spent alot of time walking. We even hung out outside when we partied. nothing's changed)

[1bad65]

Conservatives have said 'global warming' is a farce for years and we were ridiculed for it. Turns out we were right.

Does this mean Al Gore has to give back that Nobel Prize? ;)

[sanjuro_ronin]

I like this part:


Ironically, in spite of being shown false, we must now pray for it. Because a massive study, just released by the Russian Government, contains overwhelming evidence that earth is on the verge of another Ice Age.

Based on core samples from Russia's Vostok Station in Antarctica, we now know earth's atmosphere and temperature for the last 420,000 years. This evidence suggests that the 12,000 years of warmth we call the Holocene period is over.

Apparently, we're headed into an ice age of about 100,000 years -- give or take.

What does a man have to do to get some heat around here !?!?!?

[AdrianK]

So the next imaginary apocalyptic catastrophere is global cooling? :)

80's - Russia
90's - Y2K
00's - Global Warming
10's - Global Cooling
20's - Asteroids(at least, thats whats in the queue right now, right? :) )

[Shaolinlueb]

the world is ending in 2012 anyways ;)

[BoulderDawg]

Don't forget the Aztec calender says the world will end in 2012.

Anyway I never understood the Neo position on Global Warming. No matter how you feel about it what's wrong with trying to make the air and water a little cleaner and looking for alternate sources of energy?

One just has to look at the turn of the last century to see what you get when you have no regulations requiring industry to clean up their waste. Even as late as the 1970s people in the LA area were dying due to air pollution....Yep! We need to stop those regualtions now!!!!

[1bad65]

the world is ending in 2012 anyways ;)

Isn't that what the Mayans and/or Aztecs believed?

[AdrianK]

what's wrong with trying to make the air and water a little cleaner and looking for alternate sources of energy?

The boy who cried wolf.

Eventually these alarmists are going to ruin it for everyone. No one is going to pay attention when the day comes where we have a REAL catastrophe coming.

Besides that, you can't lie to people to push a political agenda. No matter how "good" it may or may not be for people.

[lkfmdc]

what's wrong with trying to make the air and water a little cleaner and looking for alternate sources of energy?



Nothing, but like most things, it isn't black and white. Developing nations are actually more responsible for toxic emissions since their industry isn't as technologically advanced. And even for first world industry, change is required. Change takes time and money.

But most importantly, lies never achieve anything. It's like telling your kid to clean up their room OR THE MONSTER WILL GET YOU. It's hard to take the request seriosly after that....

[BoulderDawg]

But most importantly, lies never achieve anything.

You mean like accusing a man of beating a women when he didn't do it.

or

accusing a man of neglecting his kids................


I understand now!

[BoulderDawg]

The boy who cried wolf.

Eventually these alarmists are going to ruin it for everyone. No one is going to pay attention when the day comes where we have a REAL catastrophe coming.

Besides that, you can't lie to people to push a political agenda. No matter how "good" it may or may not be for people.

For every so-called expert the Neos trots out to somehow prove a negative there are 100 scientists that can show you fact and figures to back up global warming. Better to be on the safe side and do something about it now.

I don't know about when there comes a day when there is a "Real environmental catastrophe" it's going to be a little hard to fix it.

[AdrianK]

there are 100 scientists that can show you fact and figures to back up global warming.

And there are 31,072 that can show you fact and figures to prove otherwise.
http://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/al_gore_global_warming/2008/05/19/97307.html

[WinterPalm]

I've been saying it to everyone I know all along, doesn't matter if it's real, cleaning up our act, and the developing world's, should be a priority...polluted cities and lakes don't benefit anyone...except companies that don't want to spend money cleaning up their act.

[David Jamieson]

It is a political agenda to install a carbon based tax and penalty structure to rake in new revenues for governments and corporations and to create a new stock market.

First of all, we can implement measures to scrub smokestacks and produce cleaner fuels etc etc. This is happening and it is happening with a lot of push back from various governments.

why?

If Climate change is occurring, it is occurring because of natural circumstances. we humans are natural and part of this planet. what we do is natural whether it be drop bombs, drive cars or replant trees and be hippies.

There is nothing we can do about what happens on a cosmic level as far as the sun or our magnetic field or any of that.

we can all reduce our waste footprint and it will take a lot of different measures to do so. Most americans and canadians would be shocked at how much further forward europe is when it comes to reuse and recycle and they would be shocked to find out how compared to the rest of the world we are so stupidly wasteful with our resources.

seriously, the levels of waste and stupidity with resources in these two countries alone is staggering.

anyway, it's true that for every 100 scientists who say we're heating up, there is a directly proportionate inverse amount who disagree. each can provide data which draws into question their actual methodologies and the value of them or the completeness of the studies.

also worthy of note is that we haven't actually been tracking these changes for too long as we simply haven't had the technology to assess what the trends are.

I am against any new taxes, I am against legislating that I have to buy into al gore's pipe dreams and I don't think there is anything unnatural about our activities here as a species. we are what we are because that is all we can be. :)

I also don't think it's a "conservative view" I think the conservatives may have adopted the "no global warming" stance merely out of convenience.

the bigger problem is our pollution and waste. that is an issue we can deal with because if we don't, and we're not, we will see cancer surpass heart disease as teh major cause of death over the next few years.

just when we were getting the hang of bringing down heart disease through healthier living practices. lol

[MightyB]

I've been saying it to everyone I know all along, doesn't matter if it's real, cleaning up our act, and the developing world's, should be a priority...polluted cities and lakes don't benefit anyone...except companies that don't want to spend money cleaning up their act.

Word





-----

[David Jamieson]

p.s the mayan calendar predicts an end of the calendar cycle of 13,000 solar years. Not the end of the world.

that nonsense comes from some new age writer and has been carried forward by the tinfoil hat crowd since the 70's. You will not find these predictions of the end of the world in any legitimate archaeological or anthropological works on the mayans and you will only find it in inane youtube videos and piggyback conspiracy writings. It's a load of crap in other words, get it in ya. :p

here's something worth considering in that regards. There is really no certain translations or deciphering of mayan language. there has been some leads and some headway, but for the most part, it is held as a mystery when it comes to their particular hieroglyphics. mostly, they can get a minimal handle on the numbering system, the knot system is entirely a mystery and they still read the glyphs according to what is depicted.

They for instance will read a glyph for the name of a king as "13 rabbit" or "smoking frog" because that is what the hieroglyph depicts. It has little if anything to do with the actual meaning of the glyph. lol.

also, these guesses have changed over time and as you see more people tapping into the mayan tongue as spoken today and managing that information combined with old codexes and hieroglyphs, you will see more certainty in the near future, but for now? nuh uh.

[MightyB]

This looks sooooo good.

[1bad65]

p.s the mayan calendar predicts an end of the calendar cycle of 13,000 solar years. Not the end of the world.

that nonsense comes from some new age writer and has been carried forward by the tinfoil hat crowd since the 70's. You will not find these predictions of the end of the world in any legitimate archaeological or anthropological works on the mayans and you will only find it in inane youtube videos and piggyback conspiracy writings. It's a load of crap in other words, get it in ya. :p

I had read that too. So I knew there were 2 sides to the story. I've just not researched the subject much myself.

[MightyB]

do a keyword search for "Pacific Garbage Island" to see this wonderful plastic mess that floats just between the California and Hawaii. It's like the 9th wonder of the modern world.

[1bad65]

This looks sooooo good.

And you know for a fact it was big business who did it, right? It looked like alot of styrofoam cups in there, kinda like there had been a beach party there.

[MightyB]

NYC Trash Barges are awesome too!

[BoulderDawg]

And there are 31,072 that can show you fact and figures to prove otherwise.
http://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/al_gore_global_warming/2008/05/19/97307.html

FYI: 30K people signed a neo petition......

I hardly doubt they could provide anything other than a signature on an electronic blog......and I'm sure you went around and verified each and everyone was qualified to give an expert opinion!:D

[David Jamieson]

the whole global warming thing really got into gear in France in '06. AFTER algores propaganda piece came out.

there were about 400 or so scientists there who made all these declarations. ever since then, the media has been using those figures, algores film and other in/out supporters of the meme.

It is worthy of note that algores film has been debunked by many times teh number of scientists who support it and that the France collective has also been debunked by many times the scientists that attended.

this tells us a couple of things.

1) our mass media is merely a propaganda wing of the people who run it

2) there is a definitive push to force new tax burden and behavioural change on people

don't be a slave to memes, stick your head out the window. If you're above the49th paralell, you know global warming is BS. lol Heck, even for some of you below the 49th it's dang cold!

weather is cyclic. It changes, there's drought, there's floods, there's heavy snow, there's light precipitation. every year has slight differences and extreme differences. it's a balancing act not a predictable trend.

[MightyB]

It doesn't suprise me that this article came from Flint Michigan.

There's a segment of Michigan's population that thinks that somehow the auto manufacturing industry will come back. They're stuck in 1950 and fail to realize that automanufacturing was never a significant contributor to US GDP. It Was a huge contributor to Michigan's GDP, but overall it was insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

These people mistakingly believe that changes to environmental regulation laws, taxation policy, union labor laws, trade policies, etc will lead to this massive comback of Michigan's auto manufacturing hey day. I'm sorry to say- it ain't gonna happen. People like this writer hold Michigan in it's never ending recession. They're not 100 percent wrong- but they're betting on the wrong industry.

[1bad65]

Wow! I agree 100% with David's last post!

[MightyB]

some of you guys are idiots---

Seriously-

They're so many benefits to a sound environmental policy. Global warming isn't the only thing- look at reduction in birth defects, asthma, cancer--- the list goes on.

[David Jamieson]

some of you guys are idiots---

Seriously-

They're so many benefits to a sound environmental policy. Global warming isn't the only thing- look at reduction in birth defects, asthma, cancer--- the list goes on.

i agree. we must curb waste and pollution and seek cleaner energy sources for reasons related to health in our various societies.

but global warming? :rolleyes:

the thing that ticks me the most is that big business lobbies government to not legislate that they clean up their acts and so instead they tell us to turn our air conditioners of in +27 celcius weather, don't do your laundry at times when it's the only time you can do it because you spend all your time working and commuting and they keep having great big dumps on the common man when the real culprit is not the yous and mes of the world, it is big corps and government institutions!

governments won't legislate about semi rigs and how they can be cleaned up or gotten rid of through the use of rail, nobody does anything to stop GM from buying up and destroying all public rail systems they can in order to sell big stupid combustion engine buses and so on and so on and so on.

when is the last time you drove downtown in a major urban center and saw all the lights out in the empty sky scrapers?

[MightyB]

http://green.yahoo.com/news/nm/20090121/sc_nm/us_antarctica_warming.html

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090121/hl_nm/us_pollution_lifespan

SNAP

[GLW]

So, if there IS global Climate Change and you:

(1) act as if there is

you will have responded to a big problem

(2) act as if there isn’t

you will have saved money and possibly doomed yourself or the planet

If there is NOT global Climate Change and you:

(1) act as if there is

you will have spent some money. You will have made things more environmentally sustainable, prevented some health problems like some forms of asthma and cancers…, spawned new energy efficient ways of doing things. Left the planet a little less worse off for the wear and tear of you being here….

(2) act as if there isn’t

you will have saved money – but you will also have done very little to use energy more wisely, efficiently, and cheaply.

Sounds to me like the upside of taking actions as if Climate Change is real and impacted greatly by Man’s bad habits may cost a bit, but planned out well, has the potential of actually paying out more in the long run….

Of course, we all might actually have to tone down our wasteful ways a bit. But then again, been to a landfill lately….lots of that stuff NEVER biodegrades….

[lkfmdc]

You mean like accusing a man of beating a women when he didn't do it.



Read the charges, "assault and battery" are among them :rolleyes:





accusing a man of neglecting his kids................



If you make $50,000 in one night and can't seem to get a gov't subsidized health insurance plan for YOUR KIDS then you ARE neglecting them

[lkfmdc]

For every so-called expert the Neos trots out to somehow prove a negative there are 100 scientists that can show you fact and figures to back up global warming.



Did you bother to even read the article?
:rolleyes:

Yes, the UNITED NATIONS is a well known bastion of neoconservatives :rolleyes:

[SimonM]

Don't forget the Aztec calender says the world will end in 2012.


It really doesn't.

The MAYAN callendar ends a CYCLE at 2012. However saying that the callendar says the world would end in 2012 is about the same as saying y2k was predicting the end of the world. It's JUST A DECIMAL ROLLOVER.

As for my position on human-caused climate change. I've expressed my position on this, complete with logic squares, several times. I don't intend to debate it further.

[MightyB]

So, if there IS global Climate Change and you:

(1) act as if there is

you will have responded to a big problem

(2) act as if there isn’t

you will have saved money and possibly doomed yourself or the planet

If there is NOT global Climate Change and you:

(1) act as if there is

you will have spent some money. You will have made things more environmentally sustainable, prevented some health problems like some forms of asthma and cancers…, spawned new energy efficient ways of doing things. Left the planet a little less worse off for the wear and tear of you being here….

(2) act as if there isn’t

you will have saved money – but you will also have done very little to use energy more wisely, efficiently, and cheaply.

Sounds to me like the upside of taking actions as if Climate Change is real and impacted greatly by Man’s bad habits may cost a bit, but planned out well, has the potential of actually paying out more in the long run….

Of course, we all might actually have to tone down our wasteful ways a bit. But then again, been to a landfill lately….lots of that stuff NEVER biodegrades….

This is the probably best summation of the global warming issue I've ever read.

[1bad65]

Yes, the UNITED NATIONS is a well known bastion of neoconservatives :rolleyes:

To space cadets it is. ;)

[BoulderDawg]

Read the charges, "assault and battery" are among them :rolleyes:

If you make $50,000 in one night and can't seem to get a gov't subsidized health insurance plan for YOUR KIDS then you ARE neglecting them

I've just read the charges: “assault to a female” and “damage to property”
Nothing in there about Battery. Which is what he would have been charged with had he beat her.

Now you are adding something new. Do you have any proof the man made 50K for one fight? After expenses (Trainers/manager/other expenses) that would mean he would have gotten close to a 100K for a fight......I highly doubt he was paid that much considering the financial stabilty of some of these promoters these days. Can you provide a link on that?

As far as the insurance thing with his kids....total BS. You were asked to provide backup and you said you heard it on the radio! Right!

[MightyB]

another benefit to acting if there is... is that it is an opportunity for real economic growth. In my city alone there is new business being born out of the new green economy--- a company called full spectrum solutions www.fullspectrumsolutions.com. This is an example how real jobs are being created out of trying to develop a sustainable economy out of an expansionistic economy. Unfortunately- real power and wealth are still deeply entrenched in the expansionistic economy (look it up on google if you don't know what I'm talking about with expansionistic economy - but this is the Evil that people talk about when they talk about the modern world)

The expansionists want to squash the sustainable - they just do- it's in their nature.

[Lucas]

do a keyword search for "Pacific Garbage Island" to see this wonderful plastic mess that floats just between the California and Hawaii. It's like the 9th wonder of the modern world.

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52951

[GLW]

so true...

Expansionism has as a core premise that there is always a new frontier or area to expand to and to utilize for resources.

It COULD also include the WISE use of said resources...but since that is taking a long view of profitability, virtually never does.

Unfortunately, it also usually involves the exploitation of the natives that originally owned the resources that are being expanded into.

As long as there were too few people and more space to explore, and more resources to EASILY obtain, Expansionism made sense....

However, when you get to a point where you are either controlled by your need for resources (with no choice) or where obtaining new resources means you will do harm to yourself, it begins to really fall apart.

So, unless we are going to new worlds SOON, the days of Expansionist control is hopefully numbered.

A more interesting read is from those who maintain that any society that ends up depending on things from outside itself for its existence will fail. The proponents of this idea point to how the basic ability to live was within each community...and that trade of goods and services outside of the community was for things that were NOT necessities until sometime in the 20th century...and that that was when we put ourselves on the road to failure.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I gotta be honest, I don't know if we are heading for a New Ice Age or Global warming.
I do know that I dislike the cold, A LOT !!
I don't know if things are just following a natural cycle or if Man's hand in there ( probably a combination of both), I do know that I DISLIKE THE COLD, A LOT !!!