Instructors and Owners

[BrokenTitanium]

What is the reason for having a "registration fee" when a new student enrolls in your school? Thanks for your responses.

[Oso]

usually it's explained to cover administrative costs associated with processing your paperwork

and, i think, to cover any actual time you spend training during the 3 days (or whatever short term period the contract you signed stated) in which you have to completely withdraw from the contract with no penalties.

[sha0lin1]

My administrative costs for using a little ink, a piece of paper, and three minutes to enter the information into my computer, never calculated it, maybe $1.50. I don't have a registration fee and my guess is that it is just another excuse for schools to make another quick buck out there. I know some schools in our area require this, a membership in their association, a uniform, first months tuition, and in some cases a $500.00 down payment which you have to finance. Not to mention, testing fees, equipment purchases, etc. over time. The funny thing is, they have tons of students.

My stepson wanted to learn Muay Thai, so I found a place here in Austin that advertised Muay Thai. We went to go try out the class and not only did the school not teach Muay Thai, they taught kick boxing, but you had to pay a $ 750.00 down payment, $100.00 a month for tuition and you only got to come to two 1/2 hour classes per week. I kindly thanked the instructor for his time and walked out wondering if maybe the secret to success is ripping the students off, this place was jam packed full of kids and parents. Maybe I'm doing it all wrong by being honest and teaching for the love of my art and actually teaching my art.

[Exadon]

...but you had to pay a $ 750.00 down payment, $100.00 a month for tuition and you only got to come to two 1/2 hour classes per week...

wow...that is insane.

My school is 85$ per month.

Yet they do require you to put down a 200$ deposit. This deposit does however will go towards your classes itself…so it brings your monthly fee down to about 69$ a month (give or take some change).

We also do have testing fees…but they are not so bad. I will be testing next month and I think the cost is 20$? Or so?.

[MasterKiller]

The only "down-payment" plans I would use are either like Exadon said his works, or IF you use that as a way to sell them proper protective equipment. For example, you pay $200 up front, but that includes gloves, shin guards, and a headgear. That way, you make some money off of the equipment, but it's something they would have needed anyway.

I don't like the idea of running a martial arts school like a fitness gym and charging sign up fees, etc...but then again I only do it a few hours a week and it's not my main source of income.

[BoulderDawg]

wow...that is insane.

My school is 85$ per month.

Yet they do require you to put down a 200$ deposit. This deposit does however will go towards your classes itself…so it brings your monthly fee down to about 69$ a month (give or take some change).

We also do have testing fees…but they are not so bad. I will be testing next month and I think the cost is 20$? Or so?.

Deposit? What for? Damages to the school? Are they afraid you might attend a class or two you didn't pay for?

Also, how would a deposit bring down your monthly payment. If a school told me I had to leave some sort of deposit I would just laugh and walk out the door.

[EarthDragon]

speaking as a school owner its a B.S way of taking more money from you!

just like testing fee's, enrollment fee's etc etc. thier is no registration costs per'se other than what shaolin said a buck or two.. this is the problem with commerical schools.. black belt mills.........

I have even heard of charging a testing fee and wrapping a piece of colored electrical tape around a belt and charging for it....

I dont charge anything other than monthly tuition.. But if a school owner is trying ot make a living off of you while teaching martial arts then theres all kinds of ways to charge for things that should be free.....

reality is most people that join quit so its a way to get the most money out of you while your still interested and excited...

[Exadon]

Deposit? What for? Damages to the school? Are they afraid you might attend a class or two you didn't pay for?

Also, how would a deposit bring down your monthly payment. If a school told me I had to leave some sort of deposit I would just laugh and walk out the door.

Errr? I don’t understand your question.

How would a deposit bring down your monthy fee? Because it is a "deposit"…not a ‘fee". Clases cost 85 a month. The 200$ goes towards the monthly fee. One year of classes so 200/12 = 16.6~
16.6 - 85 = 68.30 a month.

I don't see how that has anything to do with damages to the school or "attending classes you did not pay for".

I don't believe I ever called it a "secruity deposit".

The membership also lets you come to the school anytime it’s open (much like a gym)and that is good for me since I have no room in my house for training

[lkfmdc]

Buying your equipment and/or uniform is purchasing tangible items that you hold in your hands and own for as long as they last. IE it is NOT a "registration fee"

We charge you the first 30 days up front, plus equipment IF you need it. We do not have a registration fee. A registration fee is, without any doubt, a payment for nothing....

[BoulderDawg]

Errr? I don’t understand your question.

How would a deposit bring down your monthy fee? Because it is a "deposit"…not a ‘fee". Clases cost 85 a month. The 200$ goes towards the monthly fee. One year of classes so 200/12 = 16.6~
16.6 - 85 = 68.30 a month.

I don't see how that has anything to do with damages to the school or "attending classes you did not pay for".

I don't believe I ever called it a "secruity deoisut".

The membership also lets you come to the school anytime it’s open (much like a gym)and that is good for me since I have no room in my house for training

Is it an option to pay this? If not then you simply pay $200 up front and 70 per month. I bet you don't get your "Deposit" back if for some reason you don't train the entire year.

You can call it what you like but it's not a "deposit"....If anything it's just a registration fee. I would like to see this guys books. I bet he doesn't call it a deposit when it comes to revenue.

[xcakid]

We charge no reg fee nor do contracts. Basically, pay for your uniform ($50), and first month, and you are off doing stance training for hours. :D

I have taught at a franchise school where we charged a $150 registration. That paid for some h.s. pt to input you into the data base and send your bill to you monthly.

[Exadon]

Is it an option to pay this? If not then you simply pay $200 up front and 70 per month. I bet you don't get your "Deposit" back if for some reason you don't train the entire year.

You can call it what you like but it's not a "deposit"....
If anything it's just a registration fee. I would like to see this guys books. I bet he doesn't call it a deposit when it comes to revenue.

So putting a downpayment on a house is just some sort "registration fee" as well? The math comes out to 85$ a month witch is seems reasonable to me.

Most other schools I looked into this area are 100$ a month.

You can call it what you like as well. And to each his/her own..but I personally feel it is a good value. And of course will always be supportive of my own school

[Lucas]

the school ill be joining soon has an 'annual membership fee' of 50 dollars. to join the federation. a small cost to aquire your gi if you do not have one. the monthly fee's range from 8-15 dollars.

they are also a non-profit, so that makes a huge difference.

just gotta love the people that teach for the love of their arts.

[BoulderDawg]

the school ill be joining soon has an 'annual membership fee' of 50 dollars. to join the federation. a small cost to aquire your gi if you do not have one. the monthly fee's range from 8-15 dollars.

they are also a non-profit, so that makes a huge difference.

just gotta love the people that teach for the love of their arts.


Wow! 8-15 dollars a month! I'm wondering how you guys pay to keep the lights on! :-) But I do admire a non profit school. I also admire an instructor who gives back to the community by giving his time to teach for free once or twice a week to certain groups.

[Lucas]

the practices are held in a local gymnasium, so i believe the space is donated to the club. they have been in the community since 1926 so probably have a pretty well developed network.

[BoulderDawg]

the practices are held in a local gymnasium, so i believe the space is donated to the club. they have been in the community since 1926 so probably have a pretty well developed network.


Have they been teaching MA since 1926? That would be far out! I would bet there are few (If any at all) schools in the US that are over 80 years old!

[Lucas]

pretty much.

from their site.

"Obukan is a non-profit organization founded in 1926 by Isei and Nisei of the Japanese-American community. Originally named "Portland Judo Club", it was renamed "Obukan" by none other than the founder of Judo, Professor Jigoro Kano when he visited Portland after the 1932 Olympics. The "O" in our name refers to Oregon; Oregon was called "O-shu" or O-state by Japanese immigrants. "Bu" means martial training; "Kan" means building or training hall. We have operated continuously since 1926, with the exception of the WW II years and a brief period thereafter (1942 - 1952)."

http://obukanjudo.com/

[naja]

the practices are held in a local gymnasium, so i believe the space is donated to the club. they have been in the community since 1926 so probably have a pretty well developed network.

Looking at your later post, I saw that this is a judo club. It's not really that uncommon to find a judo club that charges little or no fees. The club I go to charges nothing to train. You had to sign a waiver and they ask that once you get to a competition level that you join USJA or USJI for insurance and promotional purposes and they charge a small fee for testing/belts.

I do think that most people have a mentality that if the training doesn't cost them any money, then it must not be any good. That might be the reason these schools that charge so much are so packed.

[Lucas]

Looking at your later post, I saw that this is a judo club. It's not really that uncommon to find a judo club that charges little or no fees. The club I go to charges nothing to train. You had to sign a waiver and they ask that once you get to a competition level that you join USJA or USJI for insurance and promotional purposes and they charge a small fee for testing/belts.

I do think that most people have a mentality that if the training doesn't cost them any money, then it must not be any good. That might be the reason these schools that charge so much are so packed.

thats in interesting point to consider about the mentality of prices determining value.

i wonder why more martial arts do not try to operate in this fashion. do you suppose judo has a bit of an 'edge' as it is also an olympic sport?

[naja]

thats in interesting point to consider about the mentality of prices determining value.

i wonder why more martial arts do not try to operate in this fashion. do you suppose judo has a bit of an 'edge' as it is also an olympic sport?

I think as far as judo is concerned, it has more to do with :

a) Judo just isn't very popular in the US, and
b) You have to have a partner to train judo, unlike striking arts where a partner helps, but isn't required until you reach the sparring stage.

Just my $0.02

[YouKnowWho]

What is the reason for having a "registration fee" when a new student enrolls in your school? Thanks for your responses.
Just like the application fee when you want to rent an apartment. You use that money to do a credit check. If that person has criminal record, you may not want to accept him as your student.

[Oso]

Just like the application fee when you want to rent an apartment. You use that money to do a credit check. If that person has criminal record, you may not want to accept him as your student.

hmmm...are schools doing background checks? not a bad idea but i doubt many of them are using the money to do background or credit checks...i could be wrong though.

[YouKnowWho]

hmmm...are schools doing background checks? not a bad idea but i doubt many of them are using the money to do background or credit checks...i could be wrong though.
One day I had a group of people from the "Black Panther Party (they called themselves the Black Muslim)" came to my school and requested private lesson. I accepted them because it was good business (they were about 20 of them). Next day the FBI knocked on my door and asked me to either provided them the student's information or refused to teach them. I immediately inform the "Black Panther Party" members that it may be better not to come to my school after all.

[Oso]

One day I had a group of people from the "Black Panther Party (they called themselves the Black Muslim)" came to my school and requested private lesson. I accepted them because it was good business (they were about 20 of them). Next day the FBI knocked on my door and asked me to either provided them the student's information or refused to teach them. I immediately inform the "Black Panther Party" members that it may be better not to come to my school after all.

well, that's certainly a pretty extreme situation...but, I still wonder if background checks are standard...i'd have to guess not.

[YouKnowWho]

I was joking about the credit check. I don't believe any instructor care that much in US. It's ancient history that - The student visited the teacher for 3 years and the teacher checked on his student for 3 years before even starting the 1st lesson.

[BoulderDawg]

One day I had a group of people from the "Black Panther Party (they called themselves the Black Muslim)" came to my school and requested private lesson. I accepted them because it was good business (they were about 20 of them). Next day the FBI knocked on my door and asked me to either provided them the student's information or refused to teach them. I immediately inform the "Black Panther Party" members that it may be better not to come to my school after all.

There is really no such thing as the "Black Panther Party" today. You might find some small groups calling themselves that throughout the country but the group from the 60s is long gone.

Black Muslim was (and is) totally different. Black Muslim could be anything but most of the time it's associated with the Nation of Islam. They are very active today. Some of their activities borders on being radical but they also do a lot of good things for the community.

I take stories like this with a grain of salt. If this story is true my guess is that you would have very little info of the individual members of a group that you were paid to train. My personal opinion on that is if you fork over the cash you can call yourself John Smith if you so desire.

To be honest, they are very few groups that I would not teach. If I was harassed by federal law I would just tell them to come back with a warrent.

[YouKnowWho]

I think you are right. It disappeared in the 70th (I opened my school in 1973). I don't know if it had anything to do with the "Black Dragon Fighting Society" or not which was also very popular in the 70th.
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The Black Panther Party (originally the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense) was an African-American organization established to promote Black Power and self-defense through acts of social agitation. It was active in the United States from the mid-1960s into the 1970s.

Founded in Oakland, California, by Huey P. Newton and Bobby Seale on October 15, 1966, the organization initially set forth a doctrine calling for the protection of African American neighborhoods from police brutality, in the interest of African-American justice.[1] Its objectives and philosophy changed radically during the party's existence. While the organization's leaders passionately espoused socialist doctrine, the Party's black nationalist reputation attracted an ideologically diverse membership.[2] Ideological consensus within the party was difficult to achieve. Some members openly disagreed with the views of the leaders.

In 1967 the organization marched on the California State Capitol in Sacramento in protest of a ban on weapons. The official newspaper The Black Panther was also first circulated that year. By 1968, the party had expanded into many cities throughout the United States, including Chicago, Los Angeles, San Diego, Denver, Newark, New York City, Philadelphia, Seattle and Baltimore. That same year, membership reached 5,000, and their newspaper had grown to a circulation of 250,000.[3]

The group created a Ten-Point Program, a document that called for "Land, Bread, Housing, Education, Clothing, Justice and Peace", as well as exemption from military service for African-American men, among other demands.[4] While firmly grounded in black nationalism and begun as an organization that accepted only African Americans as members, the party changed as it grew to national prominence and became an icon of the counterculture of the 1960s.[5] The Black Panthers ultimately condemned black nationalism as "black racism". They became more focused on socialism without racial exclusivity.[6] They instituted a variety of community programs to alleviate poverty and improve health among communities deemed most needful of aid. While the party retained its all-black membership, it recognized that different minority communities (those it deemed oppressed by the American government) needed to organize around their own set of issues and encouraged alliances with such organizations.

The group's political goals were often overshadowed by their confrontational and militant tactics, and by their suspicions of law enforcement agents. The Black Panthers considered them as oppressors to be overcome by a willingness to take up armed self-defense.[7] After party membership started to decline during Huey Newton's 1968 manslaughter trial, the Black Panther Party collapsed in the early 1970s. Writers such as Black Panther and Socialist Angela Davis and American writer and political activist Ward Churchill have alleged that law enforcement officials went to great lengths to discredit and destroy the organization, including assassination.[8]