The best one inch punch video I have ever seen

[clam61]

I have heard of Sifu Wong before. I wish I was in the SoCal area so that I could learn from him. My friend linked me to this today

Anyways, here he is doing a one inch punch on two boards. He is holding the boards with one hand!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxWZqHv9HAc

In most one inch punch vids the wing chunner seems to just lean into the punch. Usually he just pushes a student holding some pad over his chest or perhaps breaks one board that is held on both ends. This never impressed me much as it doesn't take much to break a board held like that. Any adult man should be able to do that.

But this seems much harder because you have to generate lots of speed in a short distance

[sanjuro_ronin]

Nice demo.
Saw a guy do that with a 2 x 8 x 16 slab and his palm once.

[edseas2]

(look at 1:20 or so):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeusiQ93DXk

[clam61]

(look at 1:20 or so):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeusiQ93DXk

ive watched many vids like this. even bruce lee's one inch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS6aMdskKSo

their one inch seems more like a push than an explosion of power. they always seem to be pushing dudes with phone books over their chests. or perhaps they break a board that is held on both ends with soem windup.

this is the first time ive seen it used as a speed break. breaking with one hand holding the two boards, no windup, seems very difficult.

[edseas2]

Except Sifu Fung "knocks", "pushes", "punches" ? his student off his feet and literally sends him flying through the panel of wood and and he weighs just a little more than a small board I think. :)

Ed

[clam61]

thats true...but i would submit to you that it is a lot more difficult to throw a punch with incredible acceleration than to push someone forcefully.

also the big bonus is combat applications. being able to break bones or damage organs from inches away seesm more useful than pushing someone.

http://www.tomwongwingchun.com/1inchpunch.jpg


Sifu Tom Wong demonstrating the notorious 1-inch punch on student Howard Tan. The result of this punch sent Howard sprawling 25 feet backwards and into the fence
(Sorry Howard). Photo courtesy of L.A. Times.




My Experience During The L.A. Times Interview

by Howard Tan

Two reporters in their late-20's came to visit Sifu Tom Wong. Both were about my height at 6ft. One carried a note pad, and the other carried 2 cameras. Sifu offered them some food and drink before they started the interview with questions about his background and reasons why Sifu began studying the art of Wing Chun. Sifu gave them a brief history of Wing Chun and the principles of Wing Chun. But the reporters seemed more interested in the stories about how and why Sifu Tom Wong became one of the top Wing Chun masters in the United States. Sifu continued with the stories of how he got the chance to meet the grandmaster of Wing Chun (Sum Neng) in China who had been undefeated for over 50 years. Sum Neng is recognized by the Chinese Central Government as the one and only chairman of all Wing Chun styles as documented and aired on China's national t.v. in the 1980's.

After interviewing Sifu Tom Wong, the two reporters asked if they could see some Wing Chun techniques. So Sifu starts off by showing the genuine and rarely seen "one-inch punch (see photo)." At first, the photographer was trying to take a photo as Sifu sent me flying back 25 feet! (measured distance), but it was too fast for the cameraman to capture. The photographer decided to set the camera to auto so that the camera would keep shooting at 5 frames per second. Only then was the infamous "one-inch punch" caught on film. Next, Sifu showed them the very powerful side kick. From a lead-off stance position, Sifu stood a leg's distance in front of the shield. Without running or stepping to build momentum, Sifu thrust his leg into the shield sending me flying back once more into his fence. This awesome sight of power made the two reporters very excited and amazed but they were still in disbelief. So they asked to try it out and feel the power for themselves. Sifu sent the reporter flying backwards while the photographer filmed closely. After experiencing the powerful kick, the reporter was even more excited but this time convinced that the Wing Chun demonstration was not a set-up. Sifu asked the photographer if he thought he could withstand the impact of the kick without being sent backward. Being a fairly well built man, the photographer said with confidence that he could handle the side kick. He was also sent back. The two reporters agreed that they've never felt such power before. The whole sequence of photos will be shown in KungFu magazine.

Then, Sifu asked the photographer if he had good reflexes. The photographer said yes, so Sifu asked him to get ready and show him how to block a kick to his stomach. Without telegraphing his movement, Sifu did a famous Wing Chun kick called, "shadowless kick." The kick was so fast, the photographer didn't even have time to blink or react. Sifu retracted his kick a millimeter away from the photographer's stomach with fine and controlled execution. The photographer's jaw just dropped and I could tell that the reporter was breaking into a cold sweat. Both the powerful shadowless lead-off front kick style and the "one-inch punch" demonstrated Sifu Tom Wong's fine control of explosive internal energy and they are some of his unique trademarks.

After that Sifu showed them a few De Su (ground fighting) techniques, which was more skillful than most Judo, Jujitsu or wrestling moves. Sifu with one technique which takes less than 2 seconds had already took me down, pinned both of my legs with one of his, and had a choke on my neck. In a real fight, Sifu could easily have broken my ribs and still finished the moves under 2 seconds.

Sifu Tom Wong ended the interview by saying: "Martial arts should not be explored as a violent means of practice and monetary gain, instead, martial arts should be emphasized for health, self-control, self-defense, kindness and friendship." I'm certain that Sifu had given the two reporters a new perspective of the depth and skill the Chinese martial art of Wing Chun has to offer

[Mr Punch]

Excellent vid, and I agree with Clam's points about power. Most demos push people back cos it looks good. But that's just one energy in WC striking. Most of the time, what I want to do is to punch into their centre of mass, not through them in a push. That doesn't look very exciting and isn't safe, because they just stand there and then writhe about in pain.

That description of the guy getting punched back 25 feet tho is total crap. And as for being too fast to photo, they should get a better photographer.

[t_niehoff]

Hmmm . . .

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=80383

[sanjuro_ronin]

Hmmm . . .

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=80383

Something you wanna add Terrence?

[edseas2]

As someone who has broken literally dozens of boards himself, I can only say that this type of a break is incredibly easy to perform having taught it to untrained individuals in less than 5 minutes.

Being able to generate Sifu Fung's power, otoh, is not anywhere near as easy - look at the beginning of the video I posted and watch the result of his kick(s) and, Sifu was NOT a large man! :)

Ed

[sanjuro_ronin]

One of the nicest demos of short power in regards to breaking, was one that involves a board, nail/tack and an elastic band.
The board is suspended by the rubber band and the finger tips touch and upon closing into a fist the board is broken.

[Knifefighter]

1 inch punch = more useless b.s.

There is a reason others "push" while in this vid he does not. It's called mass. The boards have almost no mass compared to a person. Put a person in front of him and he would also have to push.

You guys are too easily tricked.

[Knifefighter]

(look at 1:20 or so):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeusiQ93DXk

The compliant partners are basically falling back.

More parlor tricks.

[sanjuro_ronin]

1 inch punch = more useless b.s.

There is a reason others "push" while in this vid he does not. It's called mass. The boards have almost no mass compared to a person. Put a person in front of him and he would also have to push.

You guys are too easily tricked.

Trick?
Trick would be if the board were already broken, as it is, assuming they were not, its a nice display of skill.
Other than that, fighting wise, the breaking has nothing to do with that, just like seeing a guy do the splits between chairs is cool to see and has nothing to do wiht fighting or seeing a guy DL 400lbs with his scrotum.
:D

[Knifefighter]

After that Sifu showed them a few De Su (ground fighting) techniques, which was more skillful than most Judo, Jujitsu or wrestling moves. Sifu with one technique which takes less than 2 seconds had already took me down, pinned both of my legs with one of his, and had a choke on my neck. In a real fight, Sifu could easily have broken my ribs and still finished the moves under 2 seconds.

LOL... the bullsh!t is rampant today.

[Knifefighter]

Trick?
Trick would be if the board were already broken, as it is, assuming they were not, its a nice display of skill.
Other than that, fighting wise, the breaking has nothing to do with that, just like seeing a guy do the splits between chairs is cool to see and has nothing to do wiht fighting or seeing a guy DL 400lbs with his scrotum.
:D

Of course it is a trick. It is designed to trick people into thinking that is a valid fighting technique.

[sanjuro_ronin]

The compliant partners are basically falling back.

More parlor tricks.

In most of the clips like this, you will see the target holding a pad or a book on his upper chest, he will be standing feet shoulder width apart, the striker them "hits" him in the upper chest in a sending them "flying" off balance.
Now in this clip the guys seems to be in a forward stance which would negate that off balance thing, BUT in slow motion it seems he "gives up" his dominate forward weight.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Of course it is a trick. It is designed to trick people into thinking that is a valid fighting technique.

Oh, well, put that way, yes.
If you wanna show a a technique is a valid fighting one, then you must show it fighting.

[Knifefighter]

In most of the clips like this, you will see the target holding a pad or a book on his upper chest, he will be standing feet shoulder width apart, the striker them "hits" him in the upper chest in a sending them "flying" off balance.
Now in this clip the guys seems to be in a forward stance which would negate that off balance thing, BUT in slow motion it seems he "gives up" his dominate forward weight.

Of course he does. That's how this version of the trick works.

BTW, my brother is a professional magician, so I've seen just about every trick you can imagine.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Of course he does. That's how this version of the trick works.

BTW, my brother is a professional magician, so I've seen just about every trick you can imagine.

Some of them still take skill, no matter what.
The board suspended by rubber band is one, very tricky to do.

[Knifefighter]

Some of them still take skill, no matter what.
The board suspended by rubber band is one, very tricky to do.

Of course they take skill, just as all tricks of illusion do. The problem is when people start extrapolating to reality. Just because a magician can cut someone in half on the stage and then restore them, doesn't mean he can do it for real

[sanjuro_ronin]

Of course they take skill, just as all tricks of illusion do.

I don't know if you can call them illusions...

[Knifefighter]

I don't know if you can call them illusions...

Actually, I'd call them delusions.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Actually, I'd call them delusions.

I think you are being to hard on them, truly, while I don't agree with many demos and stunts out there, they can be entertaining.
Yes they should be used to give the impression of "fighting skill", but they are entertaining to watch and some show great skill.

[edseas2]

Take a look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSAlsyQlrEQ

I am completely unfamiliar with this type of chi sao (?).

Thoughts?

Ed

[clam61]

yah thats where i got the vid from. didnt want to post a link to another forum though

Hmmm . . .

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=80383

[clam61]

1 inch punch = more useless b.s.

There is a reason others "push" while in this vid he does not. It's called mass. The boards have almost no mass compared to a person. Put a person in front of him and he would also have to push.

You guys are too easily tricked.

yeah and if he did this to a person he would seriously injure them.


As someone who has broken literally dozens of boards himself, I can only say that this type of a break is incredibly easy to perform having taught it to untrained individuals in less than 5 minutes.

its easy to break a board or even two, when its held by two people. but held at one end? pretty hard. even harder without a windup. thats all i have to say about this.

[clam61]

that comes from the switching he does in his stance. one of the fundamental movements in YKSWC. this, the rounded shoulders and concave chest is one of the ways YKSWC differs from yip man lineages.




In most of the clips like this, you will see the target holding a pad or a book on his upper chest, he will be standing feet shoulder width apart, the striker them "hits" him in the upper chest in a sending them "flying" off balance.
Now in this clip the guys seems to be in a forward stance which would negate that off balance thing, BUT in slow motion it seems he "gives up" his dominate forward weight.

[sanjuro_ronin]

that comes from the switching he does in his stance. one of the fundamental movements in YKSWC. this, the rounded shoulders and concave chest is one of the ways YKSWC differs from yip man lineages.

I was referring to the recipient of the inch punch.

[taojkd]

its easy to break a board or even two, when its held by two people. but held at one end? pretty hard. even harder without a windup. thats all i have to say about this.

That takes some skill.

But as for the whole one-inch punch, i've heard that a one inch punch in demonstration will throw the recipient across the room but a one inch punch thrown in combat will drop a man where he stands.

a.) I have seen a lot of demos, but never any evidence of it used in an actual fight.

b.) I have never had anyone use it on me sparring. I mean, if there's good force there wouldn't you feel the force through the padding, i.e measurable force.

c.) Who here can throw a one inch punch? (please provide vid). Else whats the point talking about something you've never experienced done to you or done by you, and it might as well be science fiction.

[clam61]

here is the quote from one of his students (im guessing) on the youtube comments. i cant imagine why it wouldnt be applicable. looks like a regular vertical fisted punch to me--hes just using a board and close distance to show how powerful his punch is. i dont think he "charges up" like a dragonball z character and does a special move.



My teacher, Sifu Wong, shattering two boards!!!!.......one inch punch, no pulling back, 2 boards is difficult enough, but it adds a new dimention when you hold the board yourself!!!. Ive personally felt his one inch punch a couple times. Every time it has been from a combat application and not just the common "stage effect" you see everywhere else. This wing chun was passed down from Sum Neng who was known for his inch power in actual full speed street combat and street competition.



That takes some skill.

But as for the whole one-inch punch, i've heard that a one inch punch in demonstration will throw the recipient across the room but a one inch punch thrown in combat will drop a man where he stands.

a.) I have seen a lot of demos, but never any evidence of it used in an actual fight.

b.) I have never had anyone use it on me sparring. I mean, if there's good force there wouldn't you feel the force through the padding, i.e measurable force.

c.) Who here can throw a one inch punch? (please provide vid). Else whats the point talking about something you've never experienced done to you or done by you, and it might as well be science fiction.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I don't know that you can actually show inch (short) power in a fight, I mean its not like the guy doing it is gonna stop and place his finger on a guys chest and teh hit him.
Its gonna be almost impossible to see and if it is seen, it won't look like how it is demoed.

[Knifefighter]

c.) Who here can throw a one inch punch? (please provide vid). Else whats the point talking about something you've never experienced done to you or done by you, and it might as well be science fiction.

Over the years, I've been around lots of guys who supposedly do the one inch punch thingee. Like I said, it's pretty much a trick.

[taojkd]

here is the quote from one of his students (im guessing) on the youtube comments.

Great. Can I get a vid, or at least, NOT a subjective opinion of an online review?


i cant imagine why it wouldnt be applicable. looks like a regular vertical fisted punch to me--hes just using a board and close distance to show how powerful his punch is.


You cant imagine why it wouldn't be applicable, and yet you can't, and, have never performed it.


dont think he "charges up" like a dragonball z character and does a special move.


Seeing as that you can't logically infer that one-inch power is proven, then it logically follows this is possibility has not been disproven.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Over the years, I've been around lots of guys who supposedly do the one inch punch thingee. Like I said, it's pretty much a trick.

I've never seen it done in a fight or match, not like its demoed, but I have seen "short power", though I don't think many TCMA would look at it that way.
Short tight hooks and uppercuts that barely travel, for example, I consider "short power".

[Knifefighter]

yeah and if he did this to a person he would seriously injure them.
Ah, yes, the old, it's too dangerous to actually use on a person for real.

Can you imagine if there actually was a person who could seriously injure people with his one inch punch? He could make millions in the boxing arena... since the gloves would muffle his power so that, instead of seriously injuring people, he could simply knock everyone out.

I'll tell you what. Send me a guy who supposedly has this "one inch serious injury ability". I'll take him down to the local MMA gym where I know several fighters who will let him land a one inch punch into their abdominal area while they stand there. Of course, the catch is that he lets them throw one of their own "non-b.s." punches into his abdominal area afterwards... then you can compared how power in striking is generated and which type of power generation has the true ability to inflict serious damage.

[taojkd]

I've never seen it done in a fight or match, not like its demoed, but I have seen "short power", though I don't think many TCMA would look at it that way.
Short tight hooks and uppercuts that barely travel, for example, I consider "short power".

I'll buy that. Punches need less "wind up" as the practitioner gets more efficient at punching.

But can you shorten the "wind up" to be an inch for a straight punch. Again, i'm not saying it isn't possible, just not well documented that its actually possible in combat.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I'll buy that. Punches need less "wind up" as the practitioner gets more efficient at punching.

But can you shorten the "wind up" to be an inch for a straight punch. Again, i'm not saying it isn't possible, just not well documented that its actually possible in combat.

Inch power is not done that way in combat, at least I have never seen it.
Inch is just a demo of short power, being able to genereate lots of impact force over a small travel distance, that's all.

[clam61]

my best guess in a way that it could be used is that the guy you are fighting is for some reason really close to you. say for example he is trying to take you down or got you in some sort of clinch. muay thai clinch or underhooks.

most people try to punch the ribs etc of their opponent but they cant generate much power to do much damage because they are too close. assuming the vid is real, this guy can generate the necessary power to do damage



I don't know that you can actually show inch (short) power in a fight, I mean its not like the guy doing it is gonna stop and place his finger on a guys chest and teh hit him.
Its gonna be almost impossible to see and if it is seen, it won't look like how it is demoed.

[Knifefighter]

Inch power is not done that way in combat, at least I have never seen it..
Of course it isn't... and that's the problem.

[sanjuro_ronin]

my best guess in a way that it could be used is that the guy you are fighting is for some reason really close to you. say for example he is trying to take you down or got you in some sort of clinch. muay thai clinch or underhooks.

most people try to punch the ribs etc of their opponent but they cant generate much power to do much damage because they are too close. assuming the vid is real, this guy can generate the necessary power to do damage

Hmmm, if you are in someone clinch or they have their hooks on you, its gonna be real hard to hit with power in any way, maybe BEFORE they get in, but after, not so much.

[clam61]

with all due respect ur logic to disprove my logic is flawed. try to focus like a laser beam here:

a 'standard' vertical fisted punch can be applied in a fight. i think we can all agree on this.

in WC you often need to punch people who are very close to you. generally people cannot generate as much power as when they have more distance to accelerate their fist. however we in WC are all about close combat fighting so we still punch from short distances.

now imagine if your training has allowed you to achieve massive acceleration so that your punches, even from short distance, have lots of power.

is that useless?


Great. Can I get a vid, or at least, NOT a subjective opinion of an online review?



You cant imagine why it wouldn't be applicable, and yet you can't, and, have never performed it.



Seeing as that you can't logically infer that one-inch power is proven, then it logically follows this is possibility has not been disproven.

[taojkd]

now imagine...

No, I dont want to imagine, i want to see it.

I know boxers develop "short range" power in their punches, cause i've been hit my those. Short, tight hooks with little distance to accelerate their fist.

You've hypothesized (in theory) that this should be a very possible technique but not logically followed through with the experimentation process to see if theory holds true in a testable environment, and so, i'm still left imagining.

[Knifefighter]

with all due respect ur logic to disprove my logic is flawed. try to focus like a laser beam here:

a 'standard' vertical fisted punch can be applied in a fight. i think we can all agree on this.

in WC you often need to punch people who are very close to you. generally people cannot generate as much power as when they have more distance to accelerate their fist. however we in WC are all about close combat fighting so we still punch from short distances.

now imagine if your training has allowed you to achieve massive acceleration so that your punches, even from short distance, have lots of power.

is that useless?

It wouldn't be useless if it actually worked... too bad it doesn't.

If you want a more useful application of one inch power, put your fist one inch away from an opponent. Then run full force into him, pushing him backwards. This would be 100 times more effective in a real situation than trying to actually hurt someone with one of these punches.

Or even better, use both arms and open your hands as you run through him.

Or even better than that, grip him and push him or throw him to the ground... oh, wait a minute, that would be called grappling.

[clam61]

you feel you are being very wise requiring a scientific study. i would require a scientific study too if i were betting my life on it, but we are just discussing things here and you look foolish.

you know those short tight hooks boxers use? woldnt it be great if they could demonstrate their power and speed by blasting through some boards an inch away with that hook? this is all that is being demonstrated.

its actually quite simple.


No, I dont want to imagine, i want to see it.

I know boxers develop "short range" power in their punches, cause i've been hit my those. Short, tight hooks with little distance to accelerate their fist.

You've hypothesized (in theory) that this should be a very possible technique but not logically followed through with the experimentation process to see if theory holds true in a testable environment, and so, i'm still left imagining.

[clam61]

It wouldn't be useless if it actually worked... too bad it doesn't.

If you want a more useful application of one inch power, put your fist one inch away from an opponent. Then run full force into him, pushing him backwards. This would be 100 times more effective in a real situation than trying to actually hurt someone with one of these punches.

its good to be skeptical, but ur just a broken record saying "it doesnt work it doesnt work". if you were in place of the board, and he hit your chest, do you think that would hurt? sure looks like it would

[clam61]

Hmmm, if you are in someone clinch or they have their hooks on you, its gonna be real hard to hit with power in any way, maybe BEFORE they get in, but after, not so much.

yah i agree. if he is able to get you off balance it would be more difficult. i guess the strategy would be to create some sort of opening where you can regain your posture and then strike.

the other instances would simply be when you guys are close quarters but not necessarily in a clinch

[Knifefighter]

you feel you are being very wise requiring a scientific study. i would require a scientific study too if i were betting my life on it, but we are just discussing things here and you look foolish.

you know those short tight hooks boxers use? woldnt it be great if they could demonstrate their power and speed by blasting through some boards an inch away with that hook? this is all that is being demonstrated.

its actually quite simple.

Boxers demonstrate their power for real every day. Why would they want to punch a board which is already scored?

[Knifefighter]

its good to be skeptical, but ur just a broken record saying "it doesnt work it doesnt work". if you were in place of the board, and he hit your chest, do you think that would hurt? sure looks like it would

It doesn't.

[clam61]

who said the board was scored?

who said anything about them wanting to.

your saying one inch punches dont work. are you saying his punch doesnt really have power or its not applicable?

assuming the board is not scored and he really blasts through two boards being held by one hand, that is pretty awesome speed and power. if you dont think so thats fine. i can only suggest that you try to do it, only then will you see how much speed and power is necessary to accomplish that break.

i already wrote what i think about the application aspects.


Boxers demonstrate their power for real every day. Why would they want to punch a board which is already scored?

[taojkd]

:
Originally Posted by clam61 View Post
you feel you are being very wise requiring a scientific study. i would require a scientific study too if i were betting my life on it, but we are just discussing things here and you look foolish.

you know those short tight hooks boxers use? woldnt it be great if they could demonstrate their power and speed by blasting through some boards an inch away with that hook? this is all that is being demonstrated.


its actually quite simple.
Boxers demonstrate their power for real every day. Why would they want to punch a board which is already scored?

I agree. They can and will demo said technique in the ring/cage.

Hypothesis: Pad/Heavy Bag Training/Counter Punching Drills
Experimentation: Sparring

Hypothesis: One inch demo
Experimentation: ???

Not saying i dont think the one inch punch works, or is impossible, just fill in the ??? with some kind of results. i.e. prove it, dont say how great it would be IF it worked.

[clam61]

i see your logic. like i said in a previous post:

step 1

is there any situation where a short range punch would "work"? if no, abort this. if yes, move to step 2. (i think since we are wing chun people the obvious answer is yes)

step 2

would a short range punch with lots of power be more beneficial than a short range punch with less power? if no, abort this. if yes, move to step 3 (obviously yes)

step 3

yay a short range punch with lots of power is good (hooray)




I agree. They can and will demo said technique in the ring/cage.

Hypothesis: Pad/Heavy Bag Training/Counter Punching Drills
Experimentation: Sparring

Hypothesis: One inch demo
Experimentation: ???

Not saying i dont think the one inch punch works, or is impossible, just fill in the ??? with some kind of results.

[taojkd]

yay a short range punch with lots of power is good (hooray)


I give up. I say, post a vid and show me it exists in combat, else, i'm out.

[clam61]

i must be speaking chinese over here.

if i did that, it would just look like a regular punch. no way to tell how powerful it really was. if the guy fell over injured you'd say he was faking it. if the guy flew back ud say he was faking it or he had jet li bungees on him

thats why teh board is being used as measure of power. assuming the boards are not prebroken, that gives you a standard to measure the speed and power of the punch

[IronWeasel]

Over the years, I've been around lots of guys who supposedly do the one inch punch thingee. Like I said, it's pretty much a trick.



The difference is in the hips.

The "1 inch punch" gains some power by throwing the (same side) hip foreward...as opposed to just planting your feet in a rigid foreward stance and punching while both feet are rooted.

You can throw the "1 inch punch" without moving your feet, but the hips move in a whipping motion...with the same-side hip ending 'foreward' just as the punch completes its route of motion.

[Hardwork108]

Take a look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSAlsyQlrEQ

I am completely unfamiliar with this type of chi sao (?).

Thoughts?

Ed

Interesting. :)

That looks like a grappling chi sao, but it is different from the way we do it.

[Wayfaring]

Over the years, I've been around lots of guys who supposedly do the one inch punch thingee. Like I said, it's pretty much a trick.

It's a demo trick.

[jooerduo]

I have been on the receiving end of a few 1 inch punches (including one from Hong Kong's Wan Kam Leung) and I would say that it would definitely work in a fight if the opponent was not expecting the punch, and you would not punch some one if he's expecting it so some distraction should occur prior to the punch.
You can't do one when grappling unless your fist is aligned properly and in positions to allow for good body mechanics to transfer the blast.

I also think that there are various versions of the 1 inch punch, 2 that I know of - the explosive short power type which uses the hip as described above by Ironweasel, and another is the softer tai chi type inch punch which is more effortless and not hip dependent. HAve practiced both but not proven in a fight yet.

[Wayfaring]

I would say that it would definitely work in a fight if the opponent was not expecting the punch, and you would not punch some one if he's expecting it so some distraction should occur prior to the punch.


For it to work in a fight, you would have to set up your fist 1-2" from your opponent's body, with plenty of range to punch through your target, and clear space to initiate from hips / root. If you have all of those elements, most of the time you are going to be hitting from further away than 1". And your opponent is not going to let you move into that position easily in an alive situation. And if you're there, that's close enough to clinch.

The WC punch is a short range power punch, and if you are dealing with a bridge of some sort that you are collapsing many times your punch is not going to travel a real long distance to the target like a boxer's looping overhand right does.

In fact, that's probably where the idea for the demo trick came from. Use a very extreme situation to show off a specialty of the WC punch - short range power. Include some acting. Everybody claps.

In an alive situation - sparring / fighting, your punch will travel however far it takes to connect to the target. 4", 9", 18", 24" - whatever. Maybe some of the same mechanics will exist at some level, but that's about it. That's different than using the demo trick in a fight.

[imperialtaichi]

Guys, you are missing the point here. While the demo with the boards was excellent, but it was just 2 boards.... a full powered full swinging strike will be breaking many, many more boards. To think that a one inch punch is as powerful as a full boxer punch is just fantasy.

HOWEVER, the one inch punch/strike is a danm useful tool in fights. I prefer to use the word "strike" because it should not be limited to punching; but elbows, shoulders, knees etc as well.

Your opponent is a living person, not boards. If your opponent can sense a strike coming, he can tense up the appopriate muscles to resist the strike. If the opponent cannot sense it, a less powerful strike can still create a lot of damage. And when used in continuous striking, it can work very well by "overwhelming" and confusing the opponent, although this method works better in real fights (because both you and your opponent are aware of the uncertainty and danger) than in competitions (because both are aware that the environment is controlled and safe.)

In fact, if you interpret the one inch strike as not literally "one inch" but "shortest distance without drawing back", then you will see it being applied in Boxing, Muay Thai and MMA all the time.

Therefore, there is a real benefit in the "concept" of the one inch strike, and learning how to generate power in shortest distance whether you call it "one inch" or not. It is only a problem when one becomes a slave to the term "one inch".

Cheers,
John

[sanjuro_ronin]

A few things:
Inch power or short power is not done in combat as it is demoed, that is totally unrealistic.
The demo shows breaking with speed and "kinetic energy" rather than mass, that is what short power is about.
In a fight the fist will travel the distance it needs to, typically it will be the "standard" distance.
You see, you develop "momentum based" power ie: long arm and then you develop short power by making the total body movement smaller and smaller and smaller and when you strike, even with a "long hand" technique, you still use short power.
That sudden tension and explosion at the end of the strike is the "defining" element.
MT has it, boxing has it, pretty much every strike art has it to one extent or another, they just call it diferent names, some say "keep it tight", others "be more explosive up close" , Tyson, for example, can be shown exhibting the "boxing version" of short power in many of his bad and pad work clips.

[t_niehoff]

LOL... the bullsh!t is rampant today.

Just more of the same . . . .

[t_niehoff]

Inch power or short power is not done in combat as it is demoed, that is totally unrealistic.


Why does it make any sense to demonstrate something (be it "short power" or anything else) in an unrealistic way? What does that really show? In my view, that demonstrates nothing meaningful (look Ma, I can do a trick). But this stuff is rampant in TMAs.

What is really going on in those cases IMO is that people use these unrealistic demos to "infer" fighting powers, skills, etc. from the demonstration. For example, if I can break a board with my fingers or qi or amy one-inch punch, that demonstrates some ability and that ability will somehow "transfer" into fighting. If people understood that wasn't the case at all, such demos would hold absolutely no interest.

Someone might point out that good fighters sometimes do unrealistic demos that show off their power, skills, etc. True enough. But that's a case of a-robin-is-a-bird-but-not-all-birds-are-robins. In other words, someone can demo fuctional power, skills, etc. in an unrealistic way but not all unrealistic demos show something functional -- in fact, most don't. The only way to know if something is functional or not is to actually see it work consistently in fighting. Evidence. Fighters, like MMAists or sub grapplers for example, who know they can do X because they frequently do X in fighting, can show X in an unrealistic demo -- but they are showing something they know from experience fighting (evidence) is functional. And we can accept their unrealistic demo because we can ALSO see the eidence of functionality in their fights for ourselves. Whereas the sort of thing being discussed here (the one-inch punch) are things that no one does in fighting (certainly not against decent competition) and there is no evidence of functionality.

The bottom line is that unrealistic demos are useless and misleading. They don't prove anything other than you can do something in a demo.

[edseas2]

Of all the really crappy "chi sao" I've seen on you tube, this is about the worst:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSAlsyQlrEQ


hint: It ain't like any "chi sao" I've ever seen!

As for the "board breaking" demo, I've taught multiple students how to do this in less than 5 minnutes!

Ed

[sanjuro_ronin]

Why does it make any sense to demonstrate something (be it "short power" or anything else) in an unrealistic way? What does that really show? In my view, that demonstrates nothing meaningful (look Ma, I can do a trick). But this stuff is rampant in TMAs.

What is really going on in those cases IMO is that people use these unrealistic demos to "infer" fighting powers, skills, etc. from the demonstration. For example, if I can break a board with my fingers or qi or amy one-inch punch, that demonstrates some ability and that ability will somehow "transfer" into fighting. If people understood that wasn't the case at all, such demos would hold absolutely no interest.

Someone might point out that good fighters sometimes do unrealistic demos that show off their power, skills, etc. True enough. But that's a case of a-robin-is-a-bird-but-not-all-birds-are-robins. In other words, someone can demo fuctional power, skills, etc. in an unrealistic way but not all unrealistic demos show something functional -- in fact, most don't. The only way to know if something is functional or not is to actually see it work consistently in fighting. Evidence. Fighters, like MMAists or sub grapplers for example, who know they can do X because they frequently do X in fighting, can show X in an unrealistic demo -- but they are showing something they know from experience fighting (evidence) is functional. And we can accept their unrealistic demo because we can ALSO see the eidence of functionality in their fights for ourselves. Whereas the sort of thing being discussed here (the one-inch punch) are things that no one does in fighting (certainly not against decent competition) and there is no evidence of functionality.

The bottom line is that unrealistic demos are useless and misleading. They don't prove anything other than you can do something in a demo.

I tend to agree with what you have said.

[bakxierboxer]

I tend to agree with what you have said.


.... someone can demo fuctional power....

???
You've actually seen someone demo that fuct power?

[sanjuro_ronin]

???
You've actually seen someone demo that fuct power?

Well, I have felt it and seen it in the since that I have seen people APPLYING its principles.
Now, some TCMA may say that a "short" hook or uppercut is NOT "inch power" and to an extend they may be correct, simply because it is not THEIR type of "inch power", but I think that taking inch power out of the context of demos and such, its application in the chaotic world of combat is gonna be more liberal that in demos.

[sanjuro_ronin]

An example of short power in MT:
The elbow at .21 seconds

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=5vidKgxTURQ

IN boxing:
tight right hook at the 1 min mark
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=7t1Rq-nnIYg

[Wayfaring]

Why does it make any sense to demonstrate something (be it "short power" or anything else) in an unrealistic way? What does that really show? In my view, that demonstrates nothing meaningful (look Ma, I can do a trick). But this stuff is rampant in TMAs.

What is really going on in those cases IMO is that people use these unrealistic demos to "infer" fighting powers, skills, etc. from the demonstration. For example, if I can break a board with my fingers or qi or amy one-inch punch, that demonstrates some ability and that ability will somehow "transfer" into fighting. If people understood that wasn't the case at all, such demos would hold absolutely no interest.

Someone might point out that good fighters sometimes do unrealistic demos that show off their power, skills, etc. True enough. But that's a case of a-robin-is-a-bird-but-not-all-birds-are-robins. In other words, someone can demo fuctional power, skills, etc. in an unrealistic way but not all unrealistic demos show something functional -- in fact, most don't. The only way to know if something is functional or not is to actually see it work consistently in fighting. Evidence. Fighters, like MMAists or sub grapplers for example, who know they can do X because they frequently do X in fighting, can show X in an unrealistic demo -- but they are showing something they know from experience fighting (evidence) is functional. And we can accept their unrealistic demo because we can ALSO see the eidence of functionality in their fights for ourselves. Whereas the sort of thing being discussed here (the one-inch punch) are things that no one does in fighting (certainly not against decent competition) and there is no evidence of functionality.

The bottom line is that unrealistic demos are useless and misleading. They don't prove anything other than you can do something in a demo.

I agree with your assessment.

[bakxierboxer]

Well, I have felt it and seen it in the since that I have seen people APPLYING its principles.
Now, some TCMA may say that a "short" hook or uppercut is NOT "inch power" and to an extend they may be correct, simply because it is not THEIR type of "inch power", but I think that taking inch power out of the context of demos and such, its application in the chaotic world of combat is gonna be more liberal that in demos.

:confused:

Actually, I was picking on the spelling "fuct" in "someone can demo fuctional power" :(











:D

[sanjuro_ronin]

:confused:

Actually, I was picking on the spelling "fuct" in "someone can demo fuctional power" :(











:D
LMAO !!!
Understood, well Fuct me !
:D

[Hardwork108]

Of all the really crappy "chi sao" I've seen on you tube, this is about the worst:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSAlsyQlrEQ


hint: It ain't like any "chi sao" I've ever seen!

There is nothing crappy about it!

It looks like some kind of Kum Na (grappling/Chin-na) chi sao. I have trained a variation of this type of chi sao. It addresses stand up grappling, limb control and takedowns and in some lineages of Wing Chun (including mine) will even lead to groundfighting using chin-na, and striking using WC principles .

[Knifefighter]

An example of short power in MT:
The elbow at .21 seconds

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=5vidKgxTURQ

IN boxing:
tight right hook at the 1 min mark
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=7t1Rq-nnIYg


Notice how short range power never comes from a straight up the middle strike. It is always a rotational "hooking" or upper cut motion.

[Hardwork108]

Notice how short range power never comes from a straight up the middle strike. It is always a rotational "hooking" or upper cut motion.


Short power can also be generated from straight strikes and not only in Wing Chun but also in styles such as Chow Gar Mantis (using a different mechanism).

One needs to look deeper into a given style of kung fu to see the "possibilities".;)

[Knifefighter]

Short power can also be generated from straight strikes and not only in Wing Chun but also in styles such as Chow Gar Mantis (using a different mechanism).

One needs to look deeper into a given style of kung fu to see the "possibilities".;)

Seeing "possibilities" is the theoretical non-fighting method. The application method is to see what is actually being done.

Notice how you almost never see the straight short power in actual application, but almost always see the the rotational type.

There is a reason for that.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Notice how short range power never comes from a straight up the middle strike. It is always a rotational "hooking" or upper cut motion.

Yes, because in practical application the human body, as you know, doesn't move "straight", its all circular and when you focus on hip and waist action, even more so.
In a "dead demo: you may be able to do it in what appears to be linear fashion, but never in practical application.
Even if the end was linear ( it isn't) the core movement is rotational and circular.

[Knifefighter]

Even if the end was linear ( it isn't - BECAUSE IT CAN'T BE) the core movement is rotational and circular.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Even if the end was linear ( it isn't - BECAUSE IT CAN'T BE) the core movement is rotational and circular.

Agreed, as my Chen taiji Sifu was fond of saying, nothing is linear, all is circular, all is rotational.

[Wayfaring]

In a "dead demo: you may be able to do it in what appears to be linear fashion, but never in practical application.
Even if the end was linear ( it isn't) the core movement is rotational and circular.

I think even in the parlor trick thing the bulk of the movement (of the body) is rotational and circular. Maybe the initial 1-3" the hand movement looks straight but the follow through follows the same rotational constraints the human body imposes.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I think even in the parlor trick thing the bulk of the movement (of the body) is rotational and circular. Maybe the initial 1-3" the hand movement looks straight but the follow through follows the same rotational constraints the human body imposes.

Quite correct.

[Hardwork108]

Seeing "possibilities" is the theoretical non-fighting method. The application method is to see what is actually being done.

Notice how you almost never see the straight short power in actual application, but almost always see the the rotational type.

I have been hit by short power (straight) strikes and I tell you that they were real.





There is a reason for that.

The reason is that there are not many people who dedicate the necessary time andt training to practicing and understanding their kung fu,that is if they are fortunate enough to find an authentic school in the first place!

[t_niehoff]

I have been hit by short power (straight) strikes and I tell you that they were real.


I've been around for a fairly long time and I too have been on the receiving end of various sorts of demonstrations. I've been hit by a one-inch punch (hell, I can do a farily good one too), I've felt recognized tai ji "grandmasters" using "internal power", etc. It's all real insofar as people can really do it. But that doesn't mean it will translate into fighting, that they can do that in fighting. That's the part nonfighters don't get. Very often they believe that if they can do it in nonfighting (chi sao, demo, whatever) that means it will work in fighting. That's not the case. The only way to know whether something works in fighting or not is by doing it in fighting.

Now, if you say the one-inch, short power strike works in fighting (and the only way to know that is by seeing it), then it should be no problem providing evidence of that, right? But we don't see the evidence because the evidence of it working doesn't exist. And the evidence doesn't exist because it doesn't work (and so evidence of it working can't be provided).



The reason is that there are not many people who dedicate the necessary time andt training to practicing and understanding their kung fu,that is if they are fortunate enough to find an authentic school in the first place!

This is the old "REAL gung fu" argument: you haven't seen REAL gung fu! OK, then, show us. You don't have to do it yourself, but show us someone with the REAL gung fu, someone who can fight and hold their own against proven, decently skilled, athletic nonWCK fighters.

[clam61]

i agree. thats what ive been trying to say. no one here is saying that doing and inch punch is better than a punch with more room for acceleration. no one would punch an inch away if he had other options.

the inch punch board break is just a demo of his skill. it shows he can generate more speed/power than others in shorter distances. generally when people strike from close ranges it doesnt not have much power



Guys, you are missing the point here. While the demo with the boards was excellent, but it was just 2 boards.... a full powered full swinging strike will be breaking many, many more boards. To think that a one inch punch is as powerful as a full boxer punch is just fantasy.

HOWEVER, the one inch punch/strike is a danm useful tool in fights. I prefer to use the word "strike" because it should not be limited to punching; but elbows, shoulders, knees etc as well.

Your opponent is a living person, not boards. If your opponent can sense a strike coming, he can tense up the appopriate muscles to resist the strike. If the opponent cannot sense it, a less powerful strike can still create a lot of damage. And when used in continuous striking, it can work very well by "overwhelming" and confusing the opponent, although this method works better in real fights (because both you and your opponent are aware of the uncertainty and danger) than in competitions (because both are aware that the environment is controlled and safe.)

In fact, if you interpret the one inch strike as not literally "one inch" but "shortest distance without drawing back", then you will see it being applied in Boxing, Muay Thai and MMA all the time.

Therefore, there is a real benefit in the "concept" of the one inch strike, and learning how to generate power in shortest distance whether you call it "one inch" or not. It is only a problem when one becomes a slave to the term "one inch".

Cheers,
John

[clam61]

i assume you study WC under a Yip Man lineage. This is Yuen Kay San lineage.

If you have taught multiple students how to do this in 5 minutes that is very amazing! I have never seen anything like this on youtube.



Of all the really crappy "chi sao" I've seen on you tube, this is about the worst:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSAlsyQlrEQ


hint: It ain't like any "chi sao" I've ever seen!

As for the "board breaking" demo, I've taught multiple students how to do this in less than 5 minnutes!

Ed

[clam61]

This is the old "REAL gung fu" argument: you haven't seen REAL gung fu! OK, then, show us. You don't have to do it yourself, but show us someone with the REAL gung fu, someone who can fight and hold their own against proven, decently skilled, athletic nonWCK fighters.

it is the old argument but it is a real and legitimate one.

so lets just conclude.

1. doing a one inch punch demo doesnt necessarily mean you can fight.
2. a one inch punch is not a special type of punch. it just means that your punches have so much explosive power that it does not take a huge windup or long distance acceleration for it to do damange.

[taojkd]

Of all the really crappy "chi sao" I've seen on you tube, this is about the worst:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSAlsyQlrEQ


hint: It ain't like any "chi sao" I've ever seen!

As for the "board breaking" demo, I've taught multiple students how to do this in less than 5 minnutes!

Ed



Submit vid of some of your students doing this. Keep in mind the guy did this with one hand holding the boards, not someone else holding them for him.

As for the chi sao vid. Who are you to call this "bad"? So its not "your" chi sao. Hell, i've studied a couple different yip man lineages and not one of them did chi sao the same.

[t_niehoff]

it is the old argument but it is a real and legitimate one.

so lets just conclude.

1. doing a one inch punch demo doesnt necessarily mean you can fight.


More precisely, it means that just because you can do something in a demo (or chi sao, etc.) doesn't mean you can do in fighting.



2. a one inch punch is not a special type of punch. it just means that your punches have so much explosive power that it does not take a huge windup or long distance acceleration for it to do damange.

No, it just means you've learned to perform a certain mechanical trick that doesn't correspond to or translate to fighting. In other words, it is meaningless.

[Hardwork108]

I've been around for a fairly long time and I too have been on the receiving end of various sorts of demonstrations. I've been hit by a one-inch punch (hell, I can do a farily good one too), I've felt recognized tai ji "grandmasters" using "internal power", etc. It's all real insofar as people can really do it. But that doesn't mean it will translate into fighting, that they can do that in fighting. That's the part nonfighters don't get. Very often they believe that if they can do it in nonfighting (chi sao, demo, whatever) that means it will work in fighting. That's not the case. The only way to know whether something works in fighting or not is by doing it in fighting.

Wether any technique will work in fighting depends on how it is trained. If you train with a fighting mindset and dare I say your favorite word "functionality" then one can use the given techniques WHEN applicable, meaning that we all know that a one inch punch is not applicable against a guy who is attacking you with Tae Kwon Do kicks.


Now, if you say the one-inch, short power strike works in fighting (and the only way to know that is by seeing it), then it should be no problem providing evidence of that, right?

WRONG!

And that is because not many people have mastered this aspect of kung fu to a level that can be used often enough to have been filmed for YouTube.:rolleyes:

The current MMA influenced mindset seems to be that if I can use a couple of well trained punches to do the business, then why should I spend time and effort developing short power and other TCMA attributes for which there is no YouTube evidence.:rolleyes:

Others who may wish to train such skills do not have access to any sifu who can teach them to a proficient level.

So many people don´t learn or at least not to an applicable level!



But we don't see the evidence because the evidence of it working doesn't exist. And the evidence doesn't exist because it doesn't work (and so evidence of it working can't be provided).

There is not much "evidence" of your fighting abilities either but that never stopped you from criticizing others´ fight approach.;)




This is the "REAL gung fu" argument: you haven't seen REAL gung fu! OK, then, show us. You don't have to do it yourself, but show us someone with the REAL gung fu, someone who can fight and hold their own against proven, decently skilled, athletic nonWCK fighters.

Why should I show you? I know it exists!

You are the one with a doubt so you should be looking for the truth. The best way is to find Southern Praying Mantis kwoon. And perhaps issue a friendly challenge telling them that what they do does not work because you haven´t found any "evidence" in YouTube.

Tell them that you want to see the evidence for yourself.

I say Mantis and not Wing Chun because the authentic schools specialize in (the short range) shock power so there would be a lesser chance of you getting "disappointed".;)

[taai gihk yahn]

but held at one end? pretty hard. even harder without a windup. thats all i have to say about this.
not really; I used to do that break almost the same way when I was 16 doing TKD and had ~1 year experience - took me ~3 to 4 tries and that was it; the difference was that I started w/my fist maybe ~8" away (that was just "instinctual" - never having heard of a 1" punch at that point, it never occurred to me to try it from closer); basically, it takes speed and timing, and keeping the hand open and relaxed at first, "collapsing" it into a fist as you shoot out the strike; I am sure that with progressive practice one could easily get the distance down in a relatively short time; I would hardly construe this ability as indicative of some sort of mastery and in terms of fighting skill, it's a totally different context;

[taai gihk yahn]

I say Mantis and not Wing Chun because the authentic schools specialize in (the short range) shock power so there would be a lesser chance of you getting "disappointed".;)
so. mantis / hakka / bok mei / dragon / i liq quan etc. all train and apply "dun ging"; taiji does as well, but with a slightly different "flavor" to it; it's all fine and dandy to play with this modality, it's a nice skill set; the catch is that as soon as you refuse to stay in that particular range, it's efficacy deteriorates exponentially; meaning that one way to "defeat" this game is simply not to play it; seems ridiculously simple, but it's one of the reasons Lama Pai did so well when it was introduced into so. China - it refused to play the bridge hands game, favoring mobile angled footwork, oblique body alignment and continuous swinging striking - pretty much the antithesis of what most people were doing...

take home message - "short hit" power "works" fine when the opponent "agrees" to stay in a certain range under certain specific conditions (joined bridges); without that agreement, it doesn't

[edseas2]

i assume you study WC under a Yip Man lineage. This is Yuen Kay San lineage.

If you have taught multiple students how to do this in 5 minutes that is very amazing! I have never seen anything like this on youtube.


Are you SERIOUS?

Do you think for a moment that that stunt is difficult to perform - suspended, held by your other hand etc.?

I honestly haven't tried it yet with 3 boards but if I can get some wood together I will.

I can train someone with absolutely NO ma experience to perform this stunt quickly - I've always considered it to be a joke - didn't BL do it in one of his movies?

And that is what you call "chi sao" wtf? Are you SERIOUS?!?!?!


Ed

[edseas2]

Are you SERIOUS?

Do you think for a moment that that stunt is difficult to perform - suspended, held by your other hand etc.?

I honestly haven't tried it yet with 3 boards but if I can get some wood together I will.

I can train someone with absolutely NO ma experience to perform this stunt quickly - I've always considered it to be a joke - didn't BL do it in one of his movies?

And that is what you call "chi sao" wtf? Are you SERIOUS?!?!?!


Ed



FYI:

I thought that this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGYtIOLkqaw





was YKS wing chun, no?

Ed

[taojkd]

Are you SERIOUS?

Do you think for a moment that that stunt is difficult to perform - suspended, held by your other hand etc.?

I honestly haven't tried it yet with 3 boards but if I can get some wood together I will.

I can train someone with absolutely NO ma experience to perform this stunt quickly - I've always considered it to be a joke - didn't BL do it in one of his movies?

And that is what you call "chi sao" wtf? Are you SERIOUS?!?!?!


Ed

Post a vid of you breaking 3 boards then, or a student of yours break a couple.

As for chi sao. Yes, I am very serious. Why not? So they start out chain punching as opposed to rolling (luk sao). They are developing tactile reactions via pressure from their training partner. Again, who the hell are YOU to say it isn't chi sao.

From their website looks like they also do luk sao, so i guess that means they do the REAL chi sao ;)

http://www.tomwongwingchun.com/wing-chun-photos.html

[Liddel]

Notice how short range power never comes from a straight up the middle strike. It is always a rotational "hooking" or upper cut motion.

You should check out some army combat milling here in NZ Dale or close protection styles of combat... one of the 'bread and butter moves' if you will is palm strikes utilising straight lines.

Generally speaking they work them off actions like fake overhands flowing to knee stomps followed by the torqued palm strikes.

They are easily thrown from a tight head guard and are indeed straight as an attack can be.

Fast effective and sharp due in large part to inch power (even though its not exactly like VT's inch power) horizontal vs vert etc etc.

DREW

[clam61]

these boards look like the standard 1" pine used in breaking btw.

Are you SERIOUS?

Do you think for a moment that that stunt is difficult to perform - suspended, held by your other hand etc.?

I honestly haven't tried it yet with 3 boards but if I can get some wood together I will.

I can train someone with absolutely NO ma experience to perform this stunt quickly - I've always considered it to be a joke - didn't BL do it in one of his movies?

And that is what you call "chi sao" wtf? Are you SERIOUS?!?!?!


Ed

[Kansuke]

Why should I show you? I know it exists!




LOL! Classic LARPerian response!



I wish you would stop trying so hard to discredit CMA.

[sanjuro_ronin]

You should check out some army combat milling here in NZ Dale or close protection styles of combat... one of the 'bread and butter moves' if you will is palm strikes utilising straight lines.

Generally speaking they work them off actions like fake overhands flowing to knee stomps followed by the torqued palm strikes.

They are easily thrown from a tight head guard and are indeed straight as an attack can be.

Fast effective and sharp due in large part to inch power (even though its not exactly like VT's inch power) horizontal vs vert etc etc.

DREW

It isn't straight or linear, human body really doesn't work like that in practicallity.
Oh it can be "as straight as possible", but not linear.
For a palm heel to be straight, on th chin for example, it would have to travel on the exatct same pathway, in a linear line, from wher eit is to the chin, same height, same "width" same everything.
Again, we can try to throw a strike as straight as possible, but it will never be linear, even more so on the follow through.

[edseas2]

Post a vid of you breaking 3 boards then, or a student of yours break a couple.

As for chi sao. Yes, I am very serious. Why not? So they start out chain punching as opposed to rolling (luk sao). They are developing tactile reactions via pressure from their training partner. Again, who the hell are YOU to say it isn't chi sao.

From their website looks like they also do luk sao, so i guess that means they do the REAL chi sao ;)

http://www.tomwongwingchun.com/wing-chun-photos.html





Yeah - that's 1" SOFT pine I'm sure - hit WITH the grain its about 8 pounds to break one board!

Its an absolute JOKE - nothing to do with wing chun and if you think it does then your knowledge of our system is severely limited.

Regarding their chi sao...NOT worth a response.

Ed

[edseas2]

Post a vid of you breaking 3 boards then, or a student of yours break a couple.

As for chi sao. Yes, I am very serious. Why not? So they start out chain punching as opposed to rolling (luk sao). They are developing tactile reactions via pressure from their training partner. Again, who the hell are YOU to say it isn't chi sao.

From their website looks like they also do luk sao, so i guess that means they do the REAL chi sao ;)

http://www.tomwongwingchun.com/wing-chun-photos.html


After careful consideration, I've decided to post a video of me breaking a board for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stxBwWYg3O0

Enjoy it and maybe you'll even learn something?

Ed

[sanjuro_ronin]

After careful consideration, I've decided to post a video of me breaking a board for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stxBwWYg3O0

Enjoy it and maybe you'll even learn something?

Ed

Cute, but what was your point?

[edseas2]

And, this is how I warm up before a break:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkvR-EftwQs


Please post more examples of this difficult feat!

Thanks,

Ed

[edseas2]

Cute, but what was your point?


Simply that anyone who uses board breaking as a demonstration of "superior" technique is a bit...misguided?

Given that a 5 year old yellow belt can do it multiple times easily...

Ed

[sanjuro_ronin]

And, this is how I warm up before a break:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkvR-EftwQs


Please post more examples of this difficult feat!

Thanks,

Ed

LOL !
That was awesome.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Simply that anyone who uses board breaking as a demonstration of "superior" technique is a bit...misguided?

Given that a 5 year old yellow belt can do it multiple times easily...

Ed

Well, I agree, as stated before, that breaking as a demo means very little, certainly HOW you break and what you break can add to WHY you break, but even the hardest of breaks have nothing to do with fighting ability.

[edseas2]

Agreed!

Ed

[taojkd]

Yeah, Mr. 21 posts, I guess YOU missed the part where the 5 year old did several breaks...I doubt you know what short range power is...show me your Jong form (what's that?)...why not try "learning the system" before you try pushing us to a more "experimental phase."


Ed

Your offering sarcasm into the discussion and youtube vids of kids, and i'm trying to stay objective about the notion of 1 inch power. You have made the claim that breaking a board is a novice manner of displaying a superior technique. Well, what objective test, demo, example (vid), can you offer or suggest that prove that this technique
a.) exists (in theory and/or live-combat)
b.) is worth while to spend years learning such a technique

Personally, i haven't bothered to break boards/bricks since taking karate, as i feel that the human body more closely resembles that of a heavy bag. So i would rather spend my time doing that and doing short range punches on a wall bag filled with sand.

Now, as to the merit of doing 1 inch punches against a couple of hard pine boards, that might be something i'm willing to try. And unlike some peeps on this board, i will try to even get a vid of it.

clam61.
Ok, i'll bite. You made a valid argument as to how 1 inch power works, so i'll spend more time putting into training it and see if i use it during sparring

[Hardwork108]

so. mantis / hakka / bok mei / dragon / i liq quan etc. all train and apply "dun ging"; taiji does as well, but with a slightly different "flavor" to it; it's all fine and dandy to play with this modality, it's a nice skill set;
You seem to underestimate the Southern Mantis shock power. It is a great equalizer when facing short range/long range encounters.


the catch is that as soon as you refuse to stay in that particular range, it's efficacy deteriorates exponentially;

That is why SPM and I suspect the other styles you mentioned have within their arsenal "closing the range" and "sticking" techniques. Otherwise they would be helpless even against Tae Kwon Do exponents, wouldn´t they?


take home message - "short hit" power "works" fine when the opponent "agrees" to stay in a certain range under certain specific conditions (joined bridges); without that agreement, it doesn't

You are forgetting that many "short range" styles have contingencies for long range scenarios, meaning that the masters who created them were aware of the possibilities.

Take home message - "long hit" power "works" fine when the opponent "agrees" to stay in a certain (longer, in this case) range under certain specific conditions (hypnotised and/or mesmerized, perhaps?); without the "agreement", it doesn´t!

[clam61]

ed you are really dense. read what i say.

ive said it here and everyone knows its very easy to break a board when its held on both ends. even two boards.

the difficulty is substantially increased when the board is only held on one end. this is because you need lots of speed to break the board not just 8lbs of force.

the difficulty is further increased when you need to generate this speed in about an inch or so because the board is so close to your hand.

if you can train someone in a few minutes to do both of these tasks i would be impressed.



Yeah - that's 1" SOFT pine I'm sure - hit WITH the grain its about 8 pounds to break one board!

Its an absolute JOKE - nothing to do with wing chun and if you think it does then your knowledge of our system is severely limited.


After careful consideration, I've decided to post a video of me breaking a board for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stxBwWYg3O0

Enjoy it and maybe you'll even learn something?

Ed

[clam61]

this is an article posted on the site:

http://www.tomwongwingchun.com/wing-chun-feeling-believing.html

it would be a pretty bold faced lie because it involves famous people such as jerry poteet. if anyone trains with jerry please ask to verify sifu wong's validity.



Feeling is Believing

by Dave Lee (1995)

"To hear is to be lie to, to see is to be deceive , feeling is believing."
quoted from Bruce Lee.

This is a statement that impacted me very much, I used it as my guiding stick for my 40 years of Martial Arts training, it included 20 years of study and training in JKD, I must say it helped me realized what is the truth behind all the preachers, and see through all the commercial smoke screens.

As I heard a story about my respectful JKD grandmaster Jerry Poteet, a very honorable teacher, who had first met Sifu Tom Wong in the early 80s, (Jerry was a direct student of Bruce lee), and he followed his famous teacher and said "…feeling is believing!" and " …most classical Kung Fu is a mess…" after hours of discussion of Wing Chun Kung Fu Theory with Sifu Wong. Sifu Wong was from China, very reserved, polite, and he never showed aggression. Jerry was pushing for a test (feeling), so they crossed hands, Sifu Wong suddenly executed an explosive Lap Sao (grabbing hand) with out any significant movement (less than 1 inch), Jerry was brought over airborne and landed to the back side of Sifu Wong.

Wow, I had never felt that since Bruce!…"

Jerry realized that if it was a one inch punch toward his body, He would have experienced serious injury!

Why should I believe this story? Because I had witnessed it happen the other way with a punch!

Once I invited my friends and Sifu Wong over a party at my back yard. One of our friend was a 3rd degree blackbelt in Taekwando, after a few drinks he demonstrated his Iron Head by banging it against the table very hard, it shocked everyone! Everyone cheered, then everyone naturally turn to Sifu Wong and I said, "lets see some one inch punch from Sifu Wong". He declined, then everyone was already kind of excited after seeing the Iron Head, and wouldn’t stop yelling "come on, come on, lets see some Kung Fu", whistling, and asking "Any volunteers?". A large guy named Charles raised his hand and said, "I get to punch first!…OK?". I asked Sifu Wong if that is OK. Charles got to punch 10 times, in exchange for Sifu Wong’s one punch.

Sifu Wong had a few drinks by now. "Sure…", he said. Charles agreed, "It's a deal!". Everyone cheered!

Charles was counting his first 10 punches landing on to Sifu Wong’s chest with his best shot, "One! Two!...Nine! Ten!". Now it was Wong's turn.

I pulled out a sofa and placed it 5 ft behind Charles. Everyone got out of their seats and stood around in a big circle. Charles felt something different, he is a little apprehensive, "What are you doing?", he asked. I said, "I want to make sure you land comfortably, that’s all". Charles is a tough guy and thinks Kung Fu is a joke for little guys. "Ok, I am ready", Charles said manly. Everyone stopped breathing and focused at Wong’s fist.

Boom!

Suddenly, Charles flew to the sofa behind him and passed out! Wow, frankly, I only expected Charles would stumble back a few steps being 6'4". Everyone was calling "Charles! Charles! Charles!". He wasn’t breathing! Maybe minute later, it felt like a long minute, Sifu Wong kept smacking Charle’s face. Sifu Wong pressed his pressure points, and then Charles woke up, started breathing heavily, then vomited. "He is ok, he is ok!" Everyone was relieved, Sifu Wong was relieved and said, "I am sorry...are you ok?". Some people started sobbering.

After that incident, Sifu Wong demonstrated much more control with his power on his students. But Charles is not the only one who experienced Wong’s power! Wong’s younger days are never short of exciting stories.

[Liddel]

It isn't straight or linear, human body really doesn't work like that in practicallity.
Oh it can be "as straight as possible", but not linear.
For a palm heel to be straight, on th chin for example, it would have to travel on the exatct same pathway, in a linear line, from where it is to the chin, same height, same "width" same everything.
Again, we can try to throw a strike as straight as possible, but it will never be linear, even more so on the follow through.

His words were "never straight up the middle". Im just putting it out there that examples exist of non rotational short range power.

DREW

[edseas2]

The 5 year old boy does an admirable job of displaying the absurdity of trying to infer ma expertise by the breaking of SOFT PINE BOARDS...unless, of course, you surmise that any individual capable of breaking such a board is possessed of above average ability.

If that is indeed the case, then I have posted below the breaking of a board with a side kick by a 6 (SIX!) year old GIRL (!) for your continued edification.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgADj_hkVew


Ed

[edseas2]

BRICK BREAKING!!!!!!!!

But "Ed!" you say.

"What about brick breaking? Surely brick breaking must me demonstrative of incredible wing chun prowess and superhuman fighting abilities?!?!"

To which I reply ,"Yes, of course it is! Only the superultimategreatestgrandmasterofalltime can perform such a feat!"

Here's the proof:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42kTFneKr_8


Ed

[Mr Punch]

This thread is eight pages of ****. From both the detractors and the supporters.

The one inch punch isn't magic. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It works as a principle for using your body structure for any short range strike (a shoulder strike in guard is a similar principle) so that **** about 'having to line up your knuckles in a certain way', 'having to take a step', 'not being able to have one on the end of a 24" strike" (it's a ****ing punch for chrissakes, how you deliver it in terms of total body connection is important, same as with a jab, straight, hook, palm, elbow, double leg tackle etc etc but you can stick it on the end of the Number 18 bus or the ballet Swan Lake for all I care) is utter bollocks too.

It also works as a technique. Sometimes... and sometimes not, just like my frigging left hook. It isn't going to explode anybody's organs, it isn't going to kill anyone, and it shouldn't even knock them back so much. It should just crumple them like any good short body blow, just like crumpling a heavy bag around your fist without swinging it around wildly.

If you don't like it/can't use it, don't. If you just can't use it/don't know it, stfu!

Jesus ****, sometimes this place really is like a ****ing school playground.

[edseas2]

DIM MAK!!!

I have decided, after careful consideration, to provide a link to some of our Dim Mak secrets!

As if mere board and brick breaking weren't sufficient, I'm providing a link to some of the secret Dim Mak techniques found on the Muk Jong!!!!!!

Enjoy (but shhhhhh!!!! - its OUR secret! and its supposed to be for "Law Enforcement Only!"):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqHCUl5TILA


Ed

[Liddel]

I think the one inch punch is an overated ' trick' people get attactched to from extrapolating "inch power" techniques from VT.

I use the inch punch for sharp agressive striking from in close, to me though the name 'inch punch' refers to the range of motion in the wrist - and not the actual distance one launches the punch from.

I think its overated because 'inch power' offers so much more in terms of techs for contact fighting than just an inch punch.

As one example it allows me to realx attacking engines prior to an attack, which makes the attacks more effective IME -

If i have my contact arm on an opponents bridge which is around chest height (so ie hes got a guard up) i can use my inch power or hinge my wrist into a jum pressing the action down which then enables me to thrust foward with the shoulder and elbow force in an attack to his body from the same side !. (not addressing body movement also thats an obvious component)
The wrist paves the way making space then other body mechanics take over to land an attack.

This is but one example of where inch power can be used - there are so many more which we find introduced in Chi Sau that teach us to use inch power in every action VT has pushing pulling pressing you name it....

People focus to much on the punch when more focus could be put on other uses of Inch power IME.

DREW

[Yoshiyahu]

I agree some do infact illustrate parlor tricks by breaking breakable boards an hitting students who move at will.

But I think if you were to asked someone who claims to have inch power to demostrate on you. A person who really possesses the inch punch power for real. Will be able to demostrate it to you and knock you on your arse. If he can not then you should discount his power. The reason why they use telephone books is to not hurt the person. Or a kick sheild is used. To prevent the person from hurting them selves. But realistically the inch power or fajin can describe as

A torque of arm.
Snap at the end of punch.
Rotation of waist or hips.


Some great ways to train Inch power is to do short push ups continously.

use Wrist rollers

Practice hitting your wall bag using the
The Wrist only
Wrist and elbow
Wrist-elbow-shoulder
Wrist-elbow-shoulders
Wrist-Elbow-shoulders-hips
Wrist-Elbow-shoulders-hips-feet.

Doing so would increast your power along with do the same things with a heavy bag. Maybe start off with 100lbs bag for a year. After you can move it easily move up to heaveir bag.





The compliant partners are basically falling back.

More parlor tricks.


1 inch punch = more useless b.s.

There is a reason others "push" while in this vid he does not. It's called mass. The boards have almost no mass compared to a person. Put a person in front of him and he would also have to push.



LOL... the bullsh!t is rampant today.


Trick?
Trick would be if the board were already broken, as it is, assuming they were not, its a nice display of skill.

Other than that, fighting wise, the breaking has nothing to do with that, just like seeing a guy do the splits between chairs is cool to see and has nothing to do wiht fighting or seeing a guy DL 400lbs with his scrotum.
:D


You guys are too easily tricked.

If someone can break unbroken bricks with a palm strike what would they do if he hits you with that power on top of your head? Also Imagine someone is strong enough to bust a whole in 200lbs sand bag. With that sorta power what would he do to you if hit you with a connecting blow to the ribs,heart,diaphram,lower dan tien,or throat.

As for splits on chairs. If you can do a split that means your range of motions is greater than average guy so that means more Chi can flow to your legs and you can kick with stronger power.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I think the one inch punch is an overated ' trick' people get attactched to from extrapolating "inch power" techniques from VT.

I use the inch punch for sharp agressive striking from in close, to me though the name 'inch punch' refers to the range of motion in the wrist - and not the actual distance one launches the punch from.

I think its overated because 'inch power' offers so much more in terms of techs for contact fighting than just an inch punch.

As one example it allows me to realx attacking engines prior to an attack, which makes the attacks more effective IME -

If i have my contact arm on an opponents bridge which is around chest height (so ie hes got a guard up) i can use my inch power or hinge my wrist into a jum pressing the action down which then enables me to thrust foward with the shoulder and elbow force in an attack to his body from the same side !. (not addressing body movement also thats an obvious component)
The wrist paves the way making space then other body mechanics take over to land an attack.

This is but one example of where inch power can be used - there are so many more which we find introduced in Chi Sau that teach us to use inch power in every action VT has pushing pulling pressing you name it....

People focus to much on the punch when more focus could be put on other uses of Inch power IME.

DREW

I agree.
Inch power is just the "Apex" example of being able to generate "KO POWER" from a very short distance.
You will never see it in a fight because it is never used that close, typically it is used in the less than 12: range, more like 8".
And we see it in many systems too, including western boxing, though it tends to be more "longer" due to the gloves.
Inch power can be used very effectively in grappling too.
I recall a former Aikio teacher of mine showing how to do the Kote geshi wrist lock/throw with a "small circle", liek he called it.
It was a sharp, "inchlike" torquing motion that is usually not used because it will break the wrist because it is done to fast for the persons body to react.

[sanjuro_ronin]

If someone can break unbroken bricks with a palm strike what would they do if he hits you with that power on top of your head? Also Imagine someone is strong enough to bust a whole in 200lbs sand bag. With that sorta power what would he do to you if hit you with a connecting blow to the ribs,heart,diaphram,lower dan tien,or throat.

As for splits on chairs. If you can do a split that means your range of motions is greater than average guy so that means more Chi can flow to your legs and you can kick with stronger power.

Love to see someone bust a 200lbs sand bag.
Chi to the legs eh?
:D

[Yoshiyahu]

Yea pretty powerful....But that sorta of Demostration would be costly. Because You would go through alot punching bags everytime you gave that demostration.



But imagine someone punching someone else with that force in their kidneys!



Love to see someone bust a 200lbs sand bag.
Chi to the legs eh?
:D

[sanjuro_ronin]

Yea pretty powerful....But that sorta of Demostration would be costly. Because You would go through alot punching bags everytime you gave that demostration.



But imagine someone punching someone else with that force in their kidneys!

I take those things with a huge grain of salt, but to each their own.

[clam61]

its pure fantasy!

[Pacman]

i came across this thread and i remember reading this a little while back.

http://www.wingchunkungfu.org/wing-chun-one-inch-punch-article.html


I've come across a lot of internet forums posts and arguments about my teacher's videos. His shadowless kick and his one inch punch are favorite topics. Most of the time the critiques are not very intelligent or valid. Usually someone with no experience, the type of guy that is always a sideline fight spectator, is giving his hypothetical opinion. This would work, that wouldn't work, the trajectory of this force or mass versus speed produces this or that, what if the guy is moving, what if he's mad. It's been my experience with Sifu wong that, when you know the technique it answers all your questions. Even to the point that you have so much to say about it that you can't find enough words to describe it. These posts used to get me angry, but now after training with my teacher for some years now, I am able to understand a persons experience level by the comments they make and the questions they have. I want to explain the one inch punch and the shadowless kick as best that I can.

First, the one inch punch IS definitely, absolutely, without a doubt a real practical thing and not a stage effect, or a parlor trick or just something for demonstrations. One thing about Sifu Wong is that he never teaches, or for that matter practices, any move or technique that is not applicable. We wouldn't have it in our arsenal if it was fake or had no other application other than to fool people. Unbeknownst to most people, Wing Chun is a complete martial art. It is not just standing chi sau! In Wing Chun we have three different ranges, kicks, punches, elbows, throws, sweeps, takedowns, breaks, pressure points/dim mak, and weapons. That being said, it can be compared to any southern style, or northern style, that has 12 empty hand forms, 18 weapons, multiple ranges, grappling, and Qigong.

This is important because it serves to illustrate that when we start Wing Chun (under Tom Wong) we are building a house of a whole 30 year system. The reason why no one in MMA or boxing ever uses a one inch punch is because they don't train inch power. They constantly pull back from a great distance and wind up, practicing and training like this for years. How can they just switch up and start using damaging strikes from inches away?

Firstly, the one inch punch is very fundamental in our Wing Chun. It is not "the be all and end all" technique, but it is essential and it just so happens that my teacher has been doing it for over 40 years. Inch power is weaved all in and out of our Wing Chun. Every strike we execute is meant to be a one inch strike. The longer someone practices my teachers Wing Chun correctly the shorter their moves become. In fact, at the intermediate level a student should be able to one inch punch as hard and powerful as his rear hand pulling back to punch. When that happens, the student can "feel" he has inch power, his speed almost triples and he never again pulls back to hit, hits with the rear hand, or winds up to strike. After that when faced against an untrained person or a hard style fighter, my teachers students often comment how much faster they felt than their opponent.

Secondly, the one inch punch can and is always used in real fights against moving attackers. In Wing Chun, after some time with Sifu, our training adjusts our vision from trying to hit a skinny tree with two big frying pans to hitting a huge brick wall with two tennis balls. When you can "feel" the opennings and the holes in your opponents armor, you can hit him with a truck and he can't stop it. This is what sticky hands is for. Or rather this is what sticky hands allows you to master. But before that, our pre black belt training allows beginners to develop this same speed, accuracy and timing in the open range. My teacher knows his stuff, not just breaking boards in the air. Which by the way is very hard to do, especially holding multiple boards yourself. He's standing in a regular standing position and barely moves enough for the camera to catch. And yet he shatters the boards into little pieces. I've personally felt both Sifu Wong's one inch punch and his shadowless kick.

Third, the one inch punch is just that, a punch. In no way is it a long range push. It is a colliding strike and my teacher is known in China for breaking bones with it, leaving him the nickname "Bone Crusher". Yes absolutely, the one inch punch can be used in a real fight. This is always the number one question.

In the 1980's Sifu Wong still new to the United States met and became friends with Bruce Lee's direct former students, Jim Demile, Jerry Poteet and Steve Golden. These were Bruce's top students at the time and are now all grandmasters. The one inch punch was only an advance indoor student "test" in China. And it was only a Wing Chun phenomenon when Jim Demile (bruce lees highest ranking student) and Bruce Lee were the first to "invent" the one inch punch, researched it and tried to figure it out.

Naturally everyone was curious about Wong's fighting skill with his Wing Chun. Jerry and others said, " feeling is believing..." and challenged Wong, so Wong demonstrated his inch power forwards and backwards! A quick one handed lap sau on Poteet lifted the hair off his head as he flew past Wong. Sifu Wong barely moved an inch. Later Wong became friends with these guys and they all respect his kung fu, speed, power and applications. The one inch punch and lap sao are not the least of them all. Boxers Like Lee Smith, a multiple Golden Glove champ, and kickboxing champs, wrestling Champ Kirk Gloss all who will attest to Sifu wong's incredible speed and short explosive power. It was his favorite thing to tell people, "I'm gonna hit you right there and you won't be able to stop it". I've personally experienced him use that on me and seen him do it to other people repeatedly.

[t_niehoff]

its pure fantasy!

Why is it the fantasy guys will always argue how it will work, show demos of it working, cite people talking about it, but they just will never show it working (consistently) in fighting against competent fighters?

[Pacman]

Why is it the fantasy guys will always argue how it will work, show demos of it working, cite people talking about it, but they just will never show it working (consistently) in fighting against competent fighters?

how many people, even in the wing chun world, can do what he does?

and if you are arguing that no one in the UFC does this then that means its useless, that is bad logic.

[t_niehoff]

how many people, even in the wing chun world, can do what he does?

and if you are arguing that no one in the UFC does this then that means its useless, that is bad logic.

WCK is a fighting method. Do you want to train tricks that look good to the gullible but have nothing to do with fighting or do you want to train things that actually work in fighting? That's my "logic". If people want to show us their WCK skills -- which are fighting skill -- the only way to do that is by fighting. Tricks, forms, chi sao, demos, etc. are empty and meaningless, and IMO only really say that you can't fight worth beans (because if you could, that's what you'd be presenting since apparently you want to show people your skills).

[Pacman]

you're mind is cluttered.

you are arguing two things, one of which is erroneous

one, you are saying that a one inch punch is not applicable to fighting.
two, you are saying that this is not proof of sifu wong being able to actually fight.

for one, maybe you can explain how being able to punch inches away w/o windup and with enough speed and force to break two boards held on one end by your fingers, i.e. you can punch f'in fast and f'in hard, is not applicable to fighting?

you gave the "if its not in the UFC its useless" logic. actually UFC people try to punch hard and fast from a very close range. you see it all the time when they are a clinch. unfortunately even with a windup, their body shots from this range does not do much damage to their opponents.

for two, no one ever said this single video is proof that sifu wong possesses all the necessary skills. no one is arguing with you here.

[t_niehoff]

you're mind is cluttered.


"Cluttered mind"? WTF is that?



you are arguing two things, one of which is erroneous

one, you are saying that a one inch punch is not applicable to fighting.
two, you are saying that this is not proof of sifu wong being able to actually fight.


Stop your hero worship for a moment and try to follow this.

I am saying that the 1 inch punch is not applicable to fightiing (and we know this since no one can do it in fighting).

I am also saying that if someone can fight, then they should just show us THAT since THAT is the only real evidence of fighting skill.

With this understanding, the question we should be asking ourselves is: why someone would bother to post videos of themselves doing tricks, doing forms, doing unrealistic drills, or doing demos since those things don't really prove anything about someone's skill in WCK?

Another good question is why would anyone be impressed by seeing tricks, seeing forms, seeing unrealistic drills performed, or seeing demos? The answer is that those people don't really have a clue about fighting or fighting skills.



for one, maybe you can explain how being able to punch inches away w/o windup and with enough speed and force to break two boards held on one end by your fingers, i.e. you can punch f'in fast and f'in hard, is not applicable to fighting?


Who cares how someone does that or anything if it doesn't transfer to fighting? I've seen people do all kinds of tricks (chopping the top off a bottle, getting kicked in the groin, etc.). People who are impressed by these things have no real grasp of fighting or fighting skill. And they are used to impress THOSE people. Those tricks don't impress fighters at all. In fact, they do just the opposite.



you gave the "if its not in the UFC its useless" logic. actually UFC people try to punch hard and fast from a very close range. you see it all the time when they are a clinch. unfortunately even with a windup, their body shots from this range does not do much damage to their opponents.


You seem to have some fixation on the UFC. I said "in fighting". You can fight outside the UFC.

Yes, fighters use genuine short power all the time. But what they do isn't what Wong demo'ed. Doing a demo is a trick. That's all. People can get very good at tricks if they practice. So what?



for two, no one ever said this single video is proof that sifu wong possesses all the necessary skills. no one is arguing with you here.

Again you miss the point. Wong hasn't shown ANY FIGHTING SKILL. Fighting skills can ONLY be shown in fighting (how can you show a swimming skill and not get into the water? or a surfing skill without getting on the board and surfing?). What he has shown in that video is a trick that has nothing to do with fighitng, which proves nothing, and is essentially a complete waste of time.

But, they do seem to impress the unknowledgeable nonfighters of the world. And, my guess is that's what they are intended to do.

[sanjuro_ronin]

the 1 inch punch as typically demo'ed is a "parlor trick", as much demos tend to be, that does not take anything away from "inch power" as something that should be developed for fighting.
Short, in-close, power development is crucial for any fighter, it just tends to be more "visible" in things like elbows, hooks, uppercuts and "cut kicks".
Typically because gloves tend to nulify the short power of "linear" fist strikes, but also because short power lends itself more naturally to circular strikes like elbows, hooks and uppercuts.

[t_niehoff]

the 1 inch punch as typically demo'ed is a "parlor trick", as much demos tend to be, that does not take anything away from "inch power" as something that should be developed for fighting.
Short, in-close, power development is crucial for any fighter, it just tends to be more "visible" in things like elbows, hooks, uppercuts and "cut kicks".
Typically because gloves tend to nulify the short power of "linear" fist strikes, but also because short power lends itself more naturally to circular strikes like elbows, hooks and uppercuts.

I don't think some general "inch power" or"short power" exists. What those terms really do is lump everything that works at short range into a category of "short power" suggesting an underlying 'universal' mechanic when that really isn't the case (a short hook has different mechanics than a short uppercut which is different than a snap down and so on).

[sanjuro_ronin]

I don't think some general "inch power" or"short power" exists. What those terms really do is lump everything that works at short range into a category of "short power" suggesting an underlying 'universal' mechanic when that really isn't the case (a short hook has different mechanics than a short uppercut which is different than a snap down and so on).

While the mechanics are different, the principles are the same.

[t_niehoff]

While the mechanics are different, the principles are the same.

The whole principle/concept notion is just more nonsense -- and they just get in the way. They are the by-product of people trying to intellectualize (since concepts/principles are ONLY ideas) what they believe is going on. And in most cases, principles/concepts are simply the preconceptions of people who can't do it.

[sanjuro_ronin]

The whole principle/concept notion is just more nonsense -- and they just get in the way. They are the by-product of people trying to intellectualize (since concepts/principles are ONLY ideas) what they believe is going on. And in most cases, principles/concepts are simply the preconceptions of people who can't do it.

Perhaps, but as I see it:
one of the principles of short power is hitting with the lead hand, be it a hook or uppercut or elbow.
Now, if you do a lead hand short hook and a read hand short hook ( or uppercut), you will see which is more powerful.
And while the short uppercut is, obviously, thrown different then a short overhand ( the overhand being the exception to the principle of "lead hand I just mentioned), you will see that the "core" of the technique is the same, only "reversed".

[t_niehoff]

Perhaps, but as I see it:
one of the principles of short power is hitting with the lead hand, be it a hook or uppercut or elbow.
Now, if you do a lead hand short hook and a read hand short hook ( or uppercut), you will see which is more powerful.
And while the short uppercut is, obviously, thrown different then a short overhand ( the overhand being the exception to the principle of "lead hand I just mentioned), you will see that the "core" of the technique is the same, only "reversed".

I don't agree with your generalization. It may be true for you (that YOU have more power with your lead at short range) but not other people. This underscores my point about a generalized short power not exisiting. Every action we do (like the various types of strikes) and the power behind them are unique to each of us -- some of us may have a powerful lead hook but a better rear uppercut, with others it may be the reverse.

While I can agree with some generalizations, for example that the rear hand is typically more powerful than the lead (since it can build up more momentum), I wouldn't calll those generalizations "principles".

[TenTigers]

there are many different types of short power.
A short hook, a bicep pop-which is when you are clinching and snap you bicep into the opponent's head, to set it up for the opposite elbow. A snapping head butt. A quick jerk, or snap down of the opponent's jacket, head, arm, etc. It is endless.
Now-this does IN NO WAY imply that inch or short power is the same as standard striking in power. It is not designed for that (although it is possible, under the right conditions/target,etc-but low percentage)
I think the problem arises when people tout inch power as knockout power. It is designed to shock, stun, set-up, etc. rather than a coup de grace.

[t_niehoff]

there are many different types of short power.
A short hook, a bicep pop-which is when you are clinching and snap you bicep into the opponent's head, to set it up for the opposite elbow. A snapping head butt. A quick jerk, or snap down of the opponent's jacket, head, arm, etc. It is endless.
Now-this does IN NO WAY imply that inch or short power is the same as standard striking in power. It is not designed for that (although it is possible, under the right conditions/target,etc-but low percentage)
I think the problem arises when people tout inch power as knockout power. It is designed to shock, stun, set-up, etc. rather than a coup de grace.

Another very insightful post.

[Pacman]

I am saying that the 1 inch punch is not applicable to fightiing (and we know this since no one can do it in fighting).


you could not be more wrong. this right here shows me your level of knowledge and irrational thought process. you can't do it. you have not met someone who can do it. that experience does not apply to everyone else.

you speak so confidently because you fight often in your underground muay thai/wing chun club. supposedley everyone in there is a real fighter. fighting often does not make you a good fighter. i can fight with other people who don't know anything for years and not learn a thing too.

did you take wing chun before? i sense that you probably did and perhaps now think it was a waste of time as you could not apply anything you learned to a real combat situation. i can tell by the irrational statements, that you are very emotional about useless MA training. I dont blame you. I would be too if I wasted my time and money.

[Pacman]

there are many different types of short power.
A short hook, a bicep pop-which is when you are clinching and snap you bicep into the opponent's head, to set it up for the opposite elbow. A snapping head butt. A quick jerk, or snap down of the opponent's jacket, head, arm, etc. It is endless.
Now-this does IN NO WAY imply that inch or short power is the same as standard striking in power. It is not designed for that (although it is possible, under the right conditions/target,etc-but low percentage)
I think the problem arises when people tout inch power as knockout power. It is designed to shock, stun, set-up, etc. rather than a coup de grace.

this is what inch power means. it is a broad and general term for the ability to be able to hit powerfully in a short distance, generally close range. it can be knockout power. it is not impossible to achieve and does not require years of meditation, sitting on a peak in the himalayas.

it can be said of any strike. elbow, hook, uppercut, straight, palm, knee, kick etc.

it is not a special type of mystical power. it does not require a special type of setup.

why dont you see it in boxing etc? because they dont train it. have you seen boxers devote lots of time and focus to hitting from a clinched position?

the reason it is talked about in WC is because fighting in the close range is its specialty.

[Yoshiyahu]

In my Opinion I think the whole pushing Inch Punch thing is nothing spectacular. Pushing someone with a phone book on their chest is nothing. But I would say this. If someone has signicant inch power that can trasmitted through objects like boards or phone books an cause someone to fly off their feet an travel about two to three yards. Then it should be demostrated against a martial artist from another style.

In other words if a Tai Chi or Wing Chun man has inch power to send you flying six to ten feet in the air surely one can duplicate this while sparring. Put on the eight oz gloves and spar. The object of the Wing Chunner is to knock you off your feet with an inch punch. The other Martial Artist is also trying to knock you down as well. If you can use your inch power against a struggling opponent it is valid!

If not then I feel it is unvalid!

The pushing inch power is utterly useless unless you are striking the face or groin or neck with pushing power. But this is my opinion. I think utilizing a penetrating force that can damage muslce tissue or slapping inch power is more beneficial in actual fight. If you have enough inch power to penetrate muscle tissue, then a strike to diapram will disrupt your opponents flow and may break his hour class if he is an uncondition fighter.

But this is my opinion.

I think a true show on inch power could be proven by an actual challenge match where the one who claims to have this skill uses it on fighter of another style who has equal or lesser skill! Of course it doesn't matter what Kung you have when fighting a higher skilled fighter who is more conditioned than yourself. You won't have the opportunity to use you inch power on someone more skilled at fighting. So it useless with out the skill to apply it!

Additional Retort


Originally Posted by Terrence Niehoff:
WCK is a fighting method. Do you want to train tricks that look good to the gullible but have nothing to do with fighting or do you want to train things that actually work in fighting? That's my "logic". If people want to show us their WCK skills -- which are fighting skill -- the only way to do that is by fighting.

Thats wounderful Terrence I totally agree!


Originally Posted by Terrence Niehoff
I am saying that the 1 inch punch is not applicable to fightiing (and we know this since no one can do it in fighting).

I disagree here. let me explain why. In Wing Chun and other systems Inch power is always use. Not the exaggerated level or degree which is shown in demostrations is not used. Lets say for instance you strike an intercept with Tan Sau. Then I Lop sau, your striking hand while striking you with the Tan sau. Inch power is striking from what ever posistion my hand is in. If I am in Wu Sau Guard and I strike with my lead hand to your nose. That is inch power.

There are some great ways to build inch power. One of which is to hit your wall bag/makiawara bag. Chain punches for ten minutes a day if you will. Start by filling the bag with beans-sand-gravel-steel shots. Constantly doing chain punches and SLT trains inch power.

The famous chainpunch is continous flow of inch punches. Great way to build it up is start with punching bag...from 20lbs-50bls maybe hanging from a door post. Practice striking it repeatedly with chainpunches and other punches. Then take the sawdust and cloth out and add sand. Later add Shotgun BB's. The more you can punch this bag an send it moving the more devasting your fist will be against someone's nose from an inch distance. Train inch power with continous strikes like fighting. At first you won't be able to move the bag...when you can move a 50lbs bag with steel shots time to move up to the heavy bag weighing 100lbs-200lbs. Practice your palm thrust and punches there. At first it won't move alot. After months or years depending on your diligence you can move that bag back and forth from your punches. Now you have inch power for fighting conditions.

The Inch Punch or Power is to allow you strike from any posistion with out having to draw your arm back. I may not have enough inch power to burst your kidneys but if my hand is half an inch from your face I can definitely break your nose or split your lip. Now its possible to cause internal damage to organs with inch power. I agree But who really has the time for that painful training? I do not at this time.



Originally Posted by sanjur_ronin

Typically because gloves tend to nulify the short power of "linear" fist strikes,

I disagree, If you train short power on a heavy bag while wearing gloves then you will developed the inch power you need over time. Plus also utilizing some weights while chainpunching will increase your snap or inchpower. But it takes time and practice to developed. An Once you develop the power you need to develop the technique as well by using it in sparring against a fighting opponent. Once you can successfully use your short power with gloves against an struggling opponent then your linear strikes will be devasting with gloves on...An worst with them off.

Some things to do...

1.Practice chain punches while holding heavy boading balls or free weights.
2.Practice chain punches in the air with boxing gloves on daily (1000).
3.Practice chain punches with gloves on against a 200lbs to 400lbs bag.

Once you can move 200lbs or more you inch power is deadly.

Remember the human head only weighs 10lbs-12lbs If you strike with pentrating force an move a 200lb bag. Then Imagine what hitting someone in the chin would do with those inch punches?

[LSWCTN1]

Once you can move 200lbs or more you inch power is deadly.

Remember the human head only weighs 10lbs-12lbs If you strike with pentrating force an move a 200lb bag. Then Imagine what hitting someone in the chin would do with those inch punches?

not quite deadly but i see where you are going with this

bear in mind though that a hanging bag is usually held on a bracket and supported by a loop or chain, in your analogy the target (head/bag) may be vastly different, but equally so is the supporting structure (loop or chain/neck)

i have mentioned it before, but i feel that they neck is the most under-developed area in a person fighting attributes. of course, using wing chun we do our upmost to cover and prevent being hit.

however, in a real situation it doesnt always start with a challenge and someone stood in front of you. People are vicious and often come from behind first

i've always been a strong advocate of this (neck conditioning, not coming from behind :D) Even more so now

[sanjuro_ronin]

I disagree, If you train short power on a heavy bag while wearing gloves then you will developed the inch power you need over time. Plus also utilizing some weights while chainpunching will increase your snap or inchpower. But it takes time and practice to developed. An Once you develop the power you need to develop the technique as well by using it in sparring against a fighting opponent. Once you can successfully use your short power with gloves against an struggling opponent then your linear strikes will be devasting with gloves on...An worst with them off.

First of, I said "typically".
Second, inch power id based on transference of force VIA impulse (predominatley kinetic energy) not momentum based force ( Think bullet instead of baseball bat) and once you "cushin" impulse you love kinetic energy ( think throwing a base ball at a wall and then wrapping it in foam and and throwing it again).
That said, like I mentioned before, short power is used in many fighting systems that train and compete with gloves, jut not the way demo'd in this thread.


Some things to do...

1.Practice chain punches while holding heavy boading balls or free weights.
2.Practice chain punches in the air with boxing gloves on daily (1000).
3.Practice chain punches with gloves on against a 200lbs to 400lbs bag.

Once you can move 200lbs or more you inch power is deadly.

Remember the human head only weighs 10lbs-12lbs If you strike with pentrating force an move a 200lb bag. Then Imagine what hitting someone in the chin would do with those inch punches?

While inch power can be used to push, as it applies to strikes, it is NOT pushing.
Pushing HB is not what any strike shoudl be doing, the bag should fold in with MINIMAL sway, the more sway the more the strike was a push - HB 101.

[t_niehoff]

you could not be more wrong. this right here shows me your level of knowledge and irrational thought process. you can't do it. you have not met someone who can do it. that experience does not apply to everyone else.


This is the "appeal" of all fantasy martial artisits -- these things really do exist, just very, very few people ever see them. Like Bigfoot. ;)

If people can do the one inch punch in fighting, let's just see it. You don't have to argue that it can be done: just show it and end all argument. It's easy to convvince someone Bigfoot exists: just show us one. Instead of putting up videos of board breaking, put up videos of him doing it in fighting. Of course, that will never happen. And we all know why -- because he can't do it.

The other aspect of all this is when you get some experience seeing what really goes on in fighting, it informs you quite well of what is and what is not possible. This is what people like you don't -- and can't because of your inexperience -- ever understand. Fighters do use "short power" all the time. But that one inch punch stuff is silly.



you speak so confidently because you fight often in your underground muay thai/wing chun club. supposedley everyone in there is a real fighter. fighting often does not make you a good fighter. i can fight with other people who don't know anything for years and not learn a thing too.


Fighting may not always make you a good fighter, BUT it is the only way to becoming a good fighter. You can't become a good fighter by not fighting.

I've been practicing WCK since 1981. In that time I've seen most of the "big boys". I've met many who could do a great one inch punch in demo. What I've never seen is ANYONE that could do it in fighting.

The problem with most TCMAs and WCK included is that while everyone learns the curriculum (forms, drills, etc.), they never learn to use that curriculum in fighting. They only imagine (fantasize) they know how to make it work and that it will work in a certain way. But they never DO it. You imagine that you'll be able to punch like that in fighting -- but you're not saying that you ARE doing that in fighitng. Do you see the difference? The former is speaking from experience (I am doing it) the latter from fantasy (I imagine that I could do it).

You don't learn to USE (fight with) your WCK by not fighting. Your skill level in using your WCK is directly proportional to how much regular, quality sparring/fighting time you have put in (how much time you've spent actually trying to use it against a genuinely resisting opponent). Just like with boxing, just like in BJJ, just like in judo, just like in any friggin' martial art.

If you don't do that work, you can have little to no real skill in using your WCK. And your understanding is based on your skill level.



did you take wing chun before? i sense that you probably did and perhaps now think it was a waste of time as you could not apply anything you learned to a real combat situation. i can tell by the irrational statements, that you are very emotional about useless MA training. I dont blame you. I would be too if I wasted my time and money.

I'm not emotional about it -- I just realize that TMA-style training produces very poor results. You would see that for yourself if you ever spent anytime training/sparring with comeptent fighters.

Besides the poor training model, TMAs are filled with fantasy and nonsense. It's natural to accumulate these things if you don't have a mechanism to distinguish fantasy from reality. That's what fighting does: it SHOWS you what really works, what is possible, etc. and what is nonsense. People who don't fight, and don't fight with competent fighters, have no basis for saying what will work.

[Yoshiyahu]

So In short Inch power is real. But the videos showed on youtube are poor illustrations of true short power.

For one you have a static object, time to set, and time to concentrate. In actual fight there is no time to set and concentrate you must flow from attack to defense and back to offense again and again.

So Terrence and Sanjuro have admitted Inch Power exist. But I have to agree the true showing of inch power should be shown in fighting. However Sanjuro a Punch can be done in many forms or with different energies. Pushing is one. Although you can combine energies for a desired effect.

Anyway for the baseball analogy. Try putting a couple of hard baseballs in a boxing glove. An let me throw the boxing glove at you head as fast as I can. I don't think you are going to stand there. I personally think you would move out the way. Even if the baseballs is with in a boxing glove. I know I wouldn't stand there if you threw a boxing glove at my face filled with baseballs. It may not hurt as much as naked baseball but it will still do damage. So Naturally I would move out the way. An if you train your arm to throw harder to allow the glove to travel through the air with less air resistance. Then your throw would be more painful to the receiver. Provided they are foolish enough to offer their face for this experience!

[t_niehoff]

So In short Inch power is real. But the videos showed on youtube are poor illustrations of true short power.

For one you have a static object, time to set, and time to concentrate. In actual fight there is no time to set and concentrate you must flow from attack to defense and back to offense again and again.

So Terrence and Sanjuro have admitted Inch Power exist. But I have to agree the true showing of inch power should be shown in fighting. However Sanjuro a Punch can be done in many forms or with different energies. Pushing is one. Although you can combine energies for a desired effect.

Anyway for the baseball analogy. Try putting a couple of hard baseballs in a boxing glove. An let me throw the boxing glove at you head as fast as I can. I don't think you are going to stand there. I personally think you would move out the way. Even if the baseballs is with in a boxing glove. I know I wouldn't stand there if you threw a boxing glove at my face filled with baseballs. It may not hurt as much as naked baseball but it will still do damage. So Naturally I would move out the way. An if you train your arm to throw harder to allow the glove to travel through the air with less air resistance. Then your throw would be more painful to the receiver. Provided they are foolish enough to offer their face for this experience!

Please don't cite me. You don't understand what I am saying at all.

[sanjuro_ronin]

However Sanjuro a Punch can be done in many forms or with different energies. Pushing is one. Although you can combine energies for a desired effect.

A push is a push, a strike is a strike.

[Yoshiyahu]

Please don't cite me. You don't understand what I am saying at all.

Well Terrence do you believe its possible to develop short range power to do damage serverly after several strikes?


A push is a push, a strike is a strike.

What benefits could a hard push be against someones face?

[t_niehoff]

Well Terrence do you believe its possible to develop short range power to do damage serverly after several strikes?


Not doing what WCK people do.

[sanjuro_ronin]

What benefits could a hard push be against someones face?

A lot less than a hard strike.
Look at it this way, you are fighting a guy that has 6" on you in terms of height and 80lbs more than you in terms of weight, you MANAGE to reach his face and what do you do? push it?
Yeah, that'll work for you.

[Yoshiyahu]

Not doing what WCK people do.

whats are somethings of WC people do wrong?


A lot less than a hard strike.
Look at it this way, you are fighting a guy that has 6" on you in terms of height and 80lbs more than you in terms of weight, you MANAGE to reach his face and what do you do? push it?
Yeah, that'll work for you.

Oh so you do not believe in combinding a strike with pushing force?

[Liddel]

This pushing force vs a striking force is rediculous and obvious to anyone whos banged. I will say -

The Inch punch is the most over rated action in VT, inch power however is overlooked to often IMO. There is a difference in application of course....

I use inch power in many of my defencive hand actions and get way more advantage than what i get from using the inch punch. Sure the inch punch is sharp but its not the be all and end all.

An example...

If my hand is ontop of the opponents bridge in close i use my inch power to jolt ( if you will ) the arm of the opponent down as i change from a loose fook Sau into a Jut - this is inch power - its power resulting from the hinge action at the wrist -

The beauty of being able to do this for me is that because i use inch or wrist power my shoulder and elbow are much less relaxed in terms of power use so that the space gained from using the inch power with Jut, then enables me to use the shoulder and elbow to thrust foward and punch with force immediately, with body behind it of course :) ...itz less than 1 - 2 timing which is extremely bennificial IMO in a game of inches .(excuse the pun)

There are many many other examples of the same force being used in this way... good inch power in defencive actions like Bui for example, can help make sharp forces in your blocks deaden attacks an oppenent throws at you while protecting yourself with said block.

IMHO ones time is better spent focusing on this type of inch power rather than hoping a guy twice your size will succome to your inch punch or even a push to the face :)

DREW

[Yoshiyahu]

Well said...I love your response...very real...




This pushing force vs a striking force is rediculous and obvious to anyone whos banged. I will say -

The Inch punch is the most over rated action in VT, inch power however is overlooked to often IMO. There is a difference in application of course....

I use inch power in many of my defencive hand actions and get way more advantage than what i get from using the inch punch. Sure the inch punch is sharp but its not the be all and end all.

An example...

If my hand is ontop of the opponents bridge in close i use my inch power to jolt ( if you will ) the arm of the opponent down as i change from a loose fook Sau into a Jut - this is inch power - its power resulting from the hinge action at the wrist -

The beauty of being able to do this for me is that because i use inch or wrist power my shoulder and elbow are much less relaxed in terms of power use so that the space gained from using the inch power with Jut, then enables me to use the shoulder and elbow to thrust foward and punch with force immediately, with body behind it of course :) ...itz less than 1 - 2 timing which is extremely bennificial IMO in a game of inches .(excuse the pun)

There are many many other examples of the same force being used in this way... good inch power in defencive actions like Bui for example, can help make sharp forces in your blocks deaden attacks an oppenent throws at you while protecting yourself with said block.

IMHO ones time is better spent focusing on this type of inch power rather than hoping a guy twice your size will succome to your inch punch or even a push to the face :)

DREW

[m1k3]

Well Terrence do you believe its possible to develop short range power to do damage serverly after several strikes?



For good examples of short range power google "shovel hook". It's a short range punch with lots of power, good body torquing and it does a lot of damage.

This one from Rodney King of Crazy Monkey boxing is a good example.

http://physicalstrategies.blogspot.com/2006/11/correct-application-of-shovel-hook-to.html

[Yoshiyahu]

Rodney King the guy beat down by the cops?

what are you talking about man?



For good examples of short range power google "shovel hook". It's a short range punch with lots of power, good body torquing and it does a lot of damage.

This one from Rodney King of Crazy Monkey boxing is a good example.

http://physicalstrategies.blogspot.com/2006/11/correct-application-of-shovel-hook-to.html

[m1k3]

Rodney King the guy beat down by the cops?

what are you talking about man?

Dude, you should have checked out the link. Rodney King is a South African bouncer who developed a style of street boxing called Crazy Monkey.

The shovel hook is part of boxing, MT, MMA and some styles of Wing Chun.

A very cool punch.

:)

[t_niehoff]

Dude, you should have checked out the link. Rodney King is a South African bouncer who developed a style of street boxing called Crazy Monkey.

The shovel hook is part of boxing, MT, MMA and some styles of Wing Chun.

A very cool punch.

:)

Rodney's early stuff was great. Now that he's become a"life coach" and turned crazy monkey into a full-blown "system", it's gotten weird.

[m1k3]

Rodney's early stuff was great. Now that he's become a"life coach" and turned crazy monkey into a full-blown "system", it's gotten weird.

Yeah, I kinda noticed that too. Maybe he's been talking to Hendrick.

[Yoshiyahu]

i am at work...cant watch youtube at work...sorry...lol...no pc at home...



Dude, you should have checked out the link. Rodney King is a South African bouncer who developed a style of street boxing called Crazy Monkey.

The shovel hook is part of boxing, MT, MMA and some styles of Wing Chun.

A very cool punch.

:)