Helio Gracie's opinion of sport

[MasterKiller]

“The Jiu-Jitsu that I created was designed to give the weak ones a chance to face the heavy and strong. It was so successful that they decided to create a sportive version of it. I would like to make it clear that of course I am in favor of the sportive practice and technical refinement of all athletes, whatever their specialty may be, as well as good nutrition, sexual control, avoidance of addictions and unhealthy habits. The problem lies in the creation of a sport-oriented Jiu-Jitsu, based on rules and time limits, which benefits the heavier, stronger, and more athletic individuals. The primary objective of Jiu-Jitsu is to empower the weak who, for not having the physical attributes, are often intimidated. My Jiu-Jitsu is an art of self-defense in which rules and time limits are unacceptable. These are the reasons for which I can’t support events that reflect an anti Jiu-Jitsu.”

[Lucas]

“The Jiu-Jitsu that I created was designed to give the weak ones a chance to face the heavy and strong. It was so successful that they decided to create a sportive version of it. I would like to make it clear that of course I am in favor of the sportive practice and technical refinement of all athletes, whatever their specialty may be, as well as good nutrition, sexual control, avoidance of addictions and unhealthy habits. The problem lies in the creation of a sport-oriented Jiu-Jitsu, based on rules and time limits, which benefits the heavier, stronger, and more athletic individuals. The primary objective of Jiu-Jitsu is to empower the weak who, for not having the physical attributes, are often intimidated. My Jiu-Jitsu is an art of self-defense in which rules and time limits are unacceptable. These are the reasons for which I can’t support events that reflect an anti Jiu-Jitsu.”

my respect for his legacy has just gone up quite a bit.

[EarthDragon]

well put and a true legend................

[WinterPalm]

I agree.

I much prefer rolling for an hour straight and losing position a thousand times and then pulling out the sub in the end...or getting subbed in the end.

Winning BJJ fights via position is lame IMO. I understand it shows dominance off the hop but the fight hasn't ended and it should be still going.

[golden arhat]

it works good though

i'm not arsed if its meant for people weaker than myself

although it has let me overcome much stronger wrestlers, with submission from the guard.

[Hardwork108]

“The Jiu-Jitsu that I created was designed to give the weak ones a chance to face the heavy and strong. It was so successful that they decided to create a sportive version of it. I would like to make it clear that of course I am in favor of the sportive practice and technical refinement of all athletes, whatever their specialty may be, as well as good nutrition, sexual control, avoidance of addictions and unhealthy habits. The problem lies in the creation of a sport-oriented Jiu-Jitsu, based on rules and time limits, which benefits the heavier, stronger, and more athletic individuals. The primary objective of Jiu-Jitsu is to empower the weak who, for not having the physical attributes, are often intimidated. My Jiu-Jitsu is an art of self-defense in which rules and time limits are unacceptable. These are the reasons for which I can’t support events that reflect an anti Jiu-Jitsu.”

Hats off to Helio Gracy!

A true legend.

Read in another way, this quote implies that those who win sporting competitions may not be able to win if placed in a combat s¡tuation with the same opponent but without the "rules" and "time limits", which raises questions on the so called "functional training" advocated by so many MMA-ist "kung fu" practitioners here, in turn raising the question of the meaning of this phrase, that is, "functional" for what, sports or street fighting ?

Don´t get me wrong. My Wing Chun training incorporates a lot of tough sparring. However, sparring is not the only aspect that is relevant to REAL combat.

[Kansuke]

Of course this, like EVERY TOPIC EVER DISCUSSED, is just another excuse for '2 years of hardwork' to grind his same old axe. :rolleyes:

[EarthDragon]

why does eveyone not like this guy hardwork???? form the few posts I have read he means well and seems to have an understanding that others lack

[Hardwork108]

why does eveyone not like this guy hardwork???? form the few posts I have read he means well and seems to have an understanding that others lack

Thank you EarthDragon.:)

Most of the people who don´t like me are MMA-ists and their friends and they are all over the place in this forum. Some of them even post under "kung fu" banners, but in essence they are MMA-ists. One knows this by just reading their "informative" comments on the subject of kung fu.

These people don´t like the fact that I tell them where to go when they needlessly criticize the traditional kung fu approaches to training.

So they gang up and do their best to project a negative image of me through lies and fabrications including going as far as attributing statements to my sifu and to myself that we have never made.

Kansuke, who is part of this gang has just falsly implied that my kung fu experience is of 2 years only. They lie and then repeat the lies rather like politicians and unfortunately this works some of the time.

Others in this "gang" include Lkfmdc and Sanjuro ronin.

The key factor is that they lie and they keep repeating the lies.

You have not fallen for this but others have. This is their intention which is nothing more than attempted character assassination.

You have read my posts and recognized the kung fu. Most people here don´t have this capacity, meaning that many of them will fall for this negativity projected at my expense.

Why all this hate? Because in the past I dared challenge their "MMA is king" approach and did not take kindly to their jokes about Chi f@rts, Chi Magic, etc.

Furthermore, I showed them for what they were and that is - a bunch of glorified kickboxers here to sell their MMA schools or to play tough to "impress" the rest of us.

The hate campaign continues...

Take care.:)

[BoulderDawg]

Kansuke, who is part of this gang has just falsly implied that my kung fu experience is of 2 years only.

I can't really comment on your posts because I haven't read many of them. However when I saw the paragraph above it did not surprise me in the least. "Kansuke" decided to post similar messages toward me simply because he disagreed with my opinion.

Come to find out, after looking at his total posts, about 80% of them are geared towards getting a rise out of someone.

In any case, don't worry he'll move to somebody else soon. The guy has only been on the board for several months now. My guess is he's been banned on this board, or others, many times.

[bawang]

kansuke is unkusai

[Kansuke]

Most of the people who don´t like me are





are the vast majority of this forum.

[Mr Punch]

Hahaaaah! Helio said, "My art's too deadly for the ring!"


kansuke is unkusaiI can categorically assure you that kansuke is not 'unkusai'.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i heard hardwork108 masturbates in his socks and then wears them.

thats what i heard anyway.

[Mr Punch]

What, are you members of the same circle or something?

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

well . . . he paid my mother for sex if thats what you mean.

[Ray Pina]

Much respect to Master Helio. And I have lost in BJJ tournaments on points only to have a submission locked in place when the buzzer ran. In fact, that's how I got second instead of first last month.

The alternative though is to have 200 people sit for a week as everyone competes to submission. And at the lower levels a lot of the rules actually save the smaller guy. It would be a lot easier for me to pick a smaller guy up when I'm in his guard and just slam his head repeatedly like a pogo stick.... the rules force me to be technical.

And, the guy who beat me last, he deserved to win. He threw be beautifully twice, dominated most of the positions. I learned and grew from the experience.

As much as I like to compete, the winning and losing isn't as important as the lessons learned.

It's also important to remember that Helio has lead MANY a Gracie train to the ring and cage. I think what he was saying had more to do with BJJ guys who get caught up in the sport and couldn't defend themselves because the pure sport aspect protects them from being hit, dealing with real pressure.

Anyway, RIP Master Helio.

[Kansuke]

As much as I like to compete, the winning and losing isn't as important as the lessons learned.




Sounds like you don't like to compete all that much.

[golden arhat]

Sounds like you don't like to compete all that much.

yes he does, quite a bit actually.

[David Jamieson]

i heard hardwork108 masturbates in his socks and then wears them.

thats what i heard anyway.

well, I masturbated in YOUR socks and now you're wearing them. :p

[WinterPalm]

Much respect to Master Helio. And I have lost in BJJ tournaments on points only to have a submission locked in place when the buzzer ran. In fact, that's how I got second instead of first last month.

The alternative though is to have 200 people sit for a week as everyone competes to submission. And at the lower levels a lot of the rules actually save the smaller guy. It would be a lot easier for me to pick a smaller guy up when I'm in his guard and just slam his head repeatedly like a pogo stick.... the rules force me to be technical.

And, the guy who beat me last, he deserved to win. He threw be beautifully twice, dominated most of the positions. I learned and grew from the experience.

As much as I like to compete, the winning and losing isn't as important as the lessons learned.

It's also important to remember that Helio has lead MANY a Gracie train to the ring and cage. I think what he was saying had more to do with BJJ guys who get caught up in the sport and couldn't defend themselves because the pure sport aspect protects them from being hit, dealing with real pressure.

Anyway, RIP Master Helio.

There's an event held, I believe in California...longest matches were 45min if I'm correct. Everybody still wants to get it over with and win!

[EarthDragon]

hardwork ,
just consider the source and when they post you will first find it amusing .. then pathetic ...

I had a MMA guy tell me he could beat me up because there was no ground fighting in kung fu...... when I told him I teach 8 step and we have 360 ground techniuqes and my kung fu brother joel sutton won UFC 6 & 7 using mantis he shut up... he later replied in a PM an apology for saying what he did..

he admitted he never heard of mantis until he saw kung fu panda... so again consider the source of these guys that use their keyboard as weapons because with all that $hit talking they aint out there training. so take it less than a grain of salt.. sorry guys back to the thread

[Hardwork108]

hardwork ,
just consider the source and when they post you will first find it amusing .. then pathetic ...

I had a MMA guy tell me he could beat me up because there was no ground fighting in kung fu...... when I told him I teach 8 step and we have 360 ground techniuqes and my kung fu brother joel sutton won UFC 6 & 7 using mantis he shut up... he later replied in a PM an apology for saying what he did..

he admitted he never heard of mantis until he saw kung fu panda... so again consider the source of these guys that use their keyboard as weapons because with all that $hit talking they aint out there training. so take it less than a grain of salt.. sorry guys back to the thread


EarthDragon,

I sometimes think that some of these guys starred in Kung fu Panda.;):)

[Hardwork108]

I can't really comment on your posts because I haven't read many of them. However when I saw the paragraph above it did not surprise me in the least. "Kansuke" decided to post similar messages toward me simply because he disagreed with my opinion.

Come to find out, after looking at his total posts, about 80% of them are geared towards getting a rise out of someone.

I would say over 90% but you are correct and that fact makes him a troll except that him being a wrestler (ground "fighter") means that very few people are going to come out and call him a troll in forum dominated by MMA-ist kung fu wannabes including the same "respected" members who call me a troll every chance they get.


In any case, don't worry he'll move to somebody else soon. The guy has only been on the board for several months now. My guess is he's been banned on this board, or others, many times.

Kansuke has been here longer than that and I believe that he will be around for longer than we want him because apparently he has friends in low places.

[EarthDragon]

Its a well known fact that the main board is for humor, trolling and well just really rude people.. a prime example is gunned down atrocity talking about masterbation and peoples mothers.
My suggestion is that if you really choose to talk intellectually about MA then try the other boards, the main board is usualy a plkayground for children .. i.e we dont have this on the mantis board.... I know it may not be your practising style and hard to follow but at least you will get real answers and respect from the others who post...........good luck

[Hardwork108]

Its a well known fact that the main board is for humor, trolling and well just really rude people.. a prime example is gunned down atrocity talking about masterbation and peoples mothers.
My suggestion is that if you really choose to talk intellectually about MA then try the other boards, the main board is usualy a plkayground for children .. i.e we dont have this on the mantis board.... I know it may not be your practising style and hard to follow but at least you will get real answers and respect from the others who post...........good luck

I am going to take your advice on that one.:)

[Kansuke]

members who call me a troll every chance they get.



You could take care of that by not being a troll. Everytime you mention "glorified kickboxers" or presume to declare who does or does not have 'da real kungfu' you absolutely beg for everything you get and more. Be grateful that most people have just gotten too bored with your act to bother anymore.

[BoulderDawg]

You could take care of that by not being a troll. Everytime you mention "glorified kickboxers" or presume to declare who does or does not have 'da real kungfu' you absolutely beg for everything you get and more. Be grateful that most people have just gotten too bored with your act to bother anymore.

The man has the right to his opinion. Just because you don't like it doesn't make him a "Troll".

You don't have a lot of control in your real life do you?

[Kansuke]

You gonna grace us with 100 pages of far left wing political crap again now, comrade?

[EarthDragon]

I found that the guys with the most opinons..(nicely put) hide thier idenities. They are ashamed of who they are and hide behind a fake screen name.

It should be mandatory that your full name, address, email address and phone number be on your profile.... there would be a lot less (opinons if you will) posted and way less empty challanges and disrespect towards one another.

I had a kid talk $hit about me, my family and my sifu for months on this board and was way out of line on serval occasions with derogatory remarks and outright offensive talk.

I got a PM from somene who new him and told me where he trained... I city I have to frequent for work.
A few months later I was in his town for business. I purposely stayed a extra day so I could stop by his school and introduced myself................ I am 6'2 and 238lbs he was 5'6 and about 150 lbs................boy did he change his tune, he acted like my best friend and apologized up and down for acting like a jerk and said he was only kidding and told me.......its the internet I need to lighten up. out of respect for his teacher I didnt kick his punk a$$.

[Kansuke]

.......................................... :rolleyes:

[EarthDragon]

kansuke,
please tell me what they say about isnt true............. I thought you were really just getting bad rap.... please dont prove me otherwise...

[BoulderDawg]

You gonna grace us with 100 pages of far left wing political crap again now, comrade?


Mayhap I will...Who knows!:D

You never answered the question: You are simply in no control of your own life, are you? You're either a 15 year old kid who gets bullied at school everyday or you're some poor smuck who works in a low level job and gets bullied by his boss everyday........which is it?

I hope you're a kid. If so there is hope for you. However if you're an adult I really feel sorry for you.

[Kansuke]

kansuke,
please tell me what they say about isnt true............. I thought you were really just getting bad rap.... please dont prove me otherwise...




Me no speak you strange language. Please try in English.

[Kansuke]

Mayhap I will...Who knows!:D

You never answered the question: You are simply in no control of your own life, are you? You're either a 15 year old kid who gets bullied at school everyday or you're some poor smuck who works in a low level job and gets bullied by his boss everyday........which is it?

I hope you're a kid. If so there is hope for you. However if you're an adult I really feel sorry for you.



Wow comrade, you managed to fit several examples of stupid forum-speak into one post!

1) The "Your life must be terrible"

2) The "Let me imagine what you are really like"

3) The "I feel so sorry for you, man"


Well done, comrade. Makes about as much sense as your political musings.

[EarthDragon]

its always better to keep your mouth shut and let people assume your an idiot ........... then to open it and prove them right...........

[YouKnowWho]

The Jiu-Jitsu that I created was designed to give the weak ones a chance to face the heavy and strong.
I believe it's better to create a style that can make the weak to be strong. It's better to be able to generate 1,000 lbs of force than to be able to redirect 1,000 lbs by 4 oz force. It's better to be as rich as Bill Gates than someone who always wants to "borrow". Today people can prove that if 2 persons are on the same skill level then whoever is stronger will win.

In CMA the words 单薄 (Dan Bo - weak) usually means that you have not gone through serious training to make yourself strong. If someone defeats you in a simple "arm wrestling" match, you cannot say, "The reason that you win because you are strong and I'm weak".

[EarthDragon]

youknowwho,

I believe it's better to create a style that can make the weak to be strong? It's better to be able to generate 1,000 lbs of force than to be able to redirect 1,000 lbs by 4 oz force. It's better to be as rich as Bill Gates than someone who always wants to "borrow". Today people can prove that if 2 persons are on the same skill level then whoever is stronger will win.

doesnt your first sentance countradict the rest of your paragraph? perhaps i am misreading it

[YouKnowWho]

To "make the weak to be strong" is not the same as to "make the weak to defeat strong". The weak can defeat the strong only if the weak has higher skill than the strong. If their skill level are the same, there is no way that the weak can defeat the strong.

I believe we should train to be strong and not train to be weak. If you ask your students to do this everyday then there is no way that your students will be weak.

http://johnswang.com/sc20.wmv

I believe in "skillful and strong" and not "skillful but weak".

[Kansuke]

its always better to keep your mouth shut and let people assume your an idiot ........... then to open it and prove them right...........



It's even better to be able to put together a decent sentence before dragging out some banal old aphorism about being an idiot. :rolleyes:

[golden arhat]

regardless of peoples ideas here

kansuke definitley reminds me of unkokusai

lets calm it down yes? your generally losing support and bringing yourself down to "hardwork"s standing here i.e people are starting to ignore what you say.

[golden arhat]

EarthDragon,

I sometimes think that some of these guys starred in Kung fu Panda.;):)

and you wonder why you get abuse here:rolleyes:

[Mr Punch]

This board, like any other place, is more interesting and fun because of kansuke, GDA, hardwork... maaaybeee even boulder dawg... :p :D

We could do with less stalking tho.
Then maybe threads with useful points to make, like this one, wouldn't turn into standard KFM clown ****fests.

[David Jamieson]

Kansuke seems to think the idea behind a forum is to turn it into his personal attack fest and also to ridicule and dismiss others observations.

has he contributed anything about kungfu yet or is it all frat boy stuff and calling other people names?

Not that I can't handle a little dog **** on my shoe, like any one I shake it off and move on, I'm sure there will be more on the path.

Having said that, in regards to the Late Helio Gracie, his views on individual combat have changed quite a lot of the way it is done through sport and I think that in the case of his testing ground of vale tudo, he basically proved himself right for the most part.

[Kansuke]

Kansuke seems to think the idea behind a forum is to turn it into his personal attack fest and also to ridicule and dismiss others observations.



I'm so sorry. Do you have some travel tips or reading suggestions that might help me to become more "enlightened" like you? Maybe some historical figure you think no one else has ever heard about that I could google, and thereby become real smert like you?

Advanced beings like you have got to try and lift up the rest of us.

[Drake]

I don't think people are so much trolls as they are folks who are just very passionate about what they do. If someone puts up a conflicting viewpoint, they'll argue it to the end of the earth. Is this wrong? I don't think so. I heard about Hardwork's "anti-semetic" statements, but I've never seen them, and until I do, I don't think I'll take that as fact.

Also bear in mind that folks here are on different levels of understanding and maturity. You can't expect an 18 year old to approach things in the same manner as a 45 year old.

[David Jamieson]

I'm so sorry. Do you have some travel tips or reading suggestions that might help me to become more "enlightened" like you? Maybe some historical figure you think no one else has ever heard about that I could google, and thereby become real smert like you?

Advanced beings like you have got to try and lift up the rest of us.

I'd like to help you, but you have to want the help. :)

[Kansuke]

I'd like to help you, but you have to want the help. :)

You're right. First I'll have to work on the prejudice that I consider everything you write as hotair BS.

[Shaolinlueb]

my respect for his legacy has just gone up quite a bit.

ditto, same here.

[1bad65]

Helio, and many other Gracies, believe BJJ tournaments should be without time limits.

Helio was also known for having sex only for procreation purposes. He was also the inventor of the "Gracie diet". I read somewhere he had not eaten candy in over 50 years.

[Hardwork108]

and you wonder why you get abuse here:rolleyes:

I get "abuse" because the truth seems to hurt the feelings of some of you "tough" MMA guys who should be posting in an MMA forum to start with and not here!

[lkfmdc]

If you wanted any clearer evidence that "hardwork" is a troll, here you have it. After talking mad crap about BJJ in numerous threads, he comes on here and tries to get Helio on his side :rolleyes:

PS: cardinal definition of a troll, someone who refused to identify themselves, obscures their training and when confronted with facts can't do anything but rant and throw out insults

Or, in other words, "hardwork" only talks this way because he's typing from the security of mommy's basement :rolleyes:

Of course some of the LARP'ers here love him, they all live in the same fantasy land

[golden arhat]

I get "abuse" because the truth seems to hurt the feelings of some of you "tough" MMA guys who should be posting in an MMA forum to start with and not here!

kung fu is not one martial art
it is many different martial arts

that are products of mixtures of many other martial arts
so i suppose kung fu isMMA

anyway i have a background in hung gar and i incorporate xingyiquan into my training as i've said before
so i'l post where i like thanx

if you were speaking the truth then why do so many people with more experience in not only cma but MA in general disagree with you completely

and why are you paying respect to someone who was fundamentally against your idea's ?

[Hardwork108]

I ignore you most of the time but I will take the time to answer your post so as not to hurt your fragile feelings.


If you wanted any clearer evidence that "hardwork" is a troll, here you have it. After talking mad crap about BJJ in numerous threads, he comes on here and tries to get Helio on his side :rolleyes:

Jokes aside, my beef is not with BJJ but with some BJJ practitioners who somehow see BJJ as the beginning and end of all Martial Arts and keep "enlightening" the rest of us poor souls about it every chance they get.

The same goes for kickboxing which I happen to find very entertaining to watch, but I still don´t like people who are nothing but BJJ practicing kickboxers who have perhaps dabbled in some "kung fu", coming out to make their "informed" comments (many times with negative connotations) on the art(s) of kung fu.

Helio Gracie has my full respects. He had more "kung fu" in his little toe than you and all of your knucklehead friends here put together and multiplied by a million!

The man understood significance of softness and its combination with technique. His art was "to give the weak a chance against a stronger opponent", remember?

He practiced BJJ until old age while most of the BJJ "kings" here will be nursing long term chronic injuries and will be lucky to walk properly if they ever make it to their old age.

When I lived in Rio de Janeiro I used to sometimes train my WC in an academy owned and run by BJJ people. My sifu and I got nothing but respect from these people. None of them had the attitude one sees in forums like this and unlike you guys they could fight for real.


PS: cardinal definition of a troll, someone who refused to identify themselves,obscures their training

So I should identify myself so that you and your friends Sanjuro ronin, kansuke can use my real name at your attempts at character assassination?

The same goes for my other kung fu training!

You and your forum knucklehead buddies have already dragged my Wing Chun sifu´s name through this forum by your slanderous attempts at character assassination. Why should I provide you with more ammo?

Hasn´t it crossed your and Sanjuro_ronin´s "minds" that perhaps some sifus do not want their names sprawled all over the internet associating them with lies,flame wars and so on?
You guys would have known that fact if you had really trained tradtionally or in your case if your sifu had bothered to teach you traditionally.

It seems that he didn´t teach you authentically for very good reasons as traditional kung fu teachers do not teach nothing but the superficial stuff to the rif raff among their students!

And by the way, unlike you, I am not here to sell my kickboxing business!

As far as I am concerned you are nothing but a glorified kickboxer. By the way, do you fight under the name of Dave "The Fat Kid" Ross? If you don´t then please consider it as it has a very good ring to it and it "surprise,surprise" suites you!

On another positive note if Sumo wrestling ever becomes a fad then it will be relatively easy for someone of your "built" to "crosstrain" in that too and perhaps make a "quick buck" business out of that as well.

Furthermore, I am not here to sell my grand ability to break pieces of wood and slabs by showing you my YouTube clips (hello Sanjuro ronin) and call it "kung fu"! In short I am not here to promote my person!

I am here to talk, discuss and learn more about genuine kung fu training. I am aware of the virtues of ring fighting; the grappling arts;Ken Shamrocks fighting ability and so on. If I need any more enlightenment on that subject then I will go to an MMA forum for the relevant info. Thank you!

As far as I am concerned this is a Kung Fu forum and it is only relevant that genuine kung fu sifus identify themselves so that people wishing to learn real kung fu can contact them or at least have a site reference where they can inform themselves on a particular school/style or sifu.

Luckily for the ones amongst us who are interested in genuine kung fu, there are real kung fu sifus here who do just that.

Other then that the rest of you are here only to "sell" something that is irrelevant to kung fu and only used the kung fu tag for marketing purposes!


and when confronted with facts can't do anything but rant and throw out insults

I have seen your "facts" and they were nothing but below the belt slanderous lies. You and your forum friends seem to have a problem with honesty.

For people who apparently possess such "distinct" MA "resumes" (this is comedy territory, folks...lol), you and your friends seem to be very insecure.;)


Or, in other words, "hardwork" only talks this way because he's typing from the security of mommy's basement :rolleyes:

More of your "facts" I presume?


Of course some of the LARP'ers here love him, they all live in the same fantasy land

And now who is the one insulting?

You have knowingly or unknowingly thrown insults at people who UNLIKE YOU and your forum friends, are REAL kung fu sifus or practitioners.

[Hardwork108]

kung fu is not one martial art
it is many different martial arts
No kidding?


that are products of mixtures of many other martial arts
so i suppose kung fu isMMA

Haven´t we had this discussion before?

Did I not explain to you that inspite of the "mixtures" within given kung fu systems the masters (NOTglorified kickboxers!) who created them incorporated all the given techniques withing distinct principles and concepts which at the end of the day gave that style its "flavor" and "essence".

Or did I have that discussion with another one of your friends who also did not understand?


anyway i have a background in hung gar and i incorporate xingyiquan into my training as i've said before
so i'l post where i like thanx

What you do is your concern but in the interest of accuracy, please don´t call it kung fu!!!


if you were speaking the truth then why do so many people with more experience in not only cma but MA in general disagree with you completely

Because most of their experience is in "MA in general" and not in kung fu!


and why are you paying respect to someone who was fundamentally against your idea's ?

Read my comments on that subject in my last post addressed to the kickboxing "grand master" Ikfmdc, above and you will see.

[Hardwork108]

I don't think people are so much trolls as they are folks who are just very passionate about what they do. If someone puts up a conflicting viewpoint, they'll argue it to the end of the earth. Is this wrong? I don't think so. I heard about Hardwork's "anti-semetic" statements, but I've never seen them, and until I do, I don't think I'll take that as fact.

My so called "anti semetic" statements were fabricated by Ikfmdc. He did so by doctoring my quotes and "inventing other quotes on my behalf. It was all revealed so instead of apologizing he went on to invent other posts that attributed statements to my sifu that my sifu had never made. There were other lies as well.

Sanjuro ronin as well as a few others participated in this attempt at character assassination on this occassion and they still do so now!

[Kansuke]

What you do is your concern but in the interest of accuracy, please don´t call it kung fu!!!



Once again, the two-year Grandmaster passes judgement. :rolleyes:

[golden arhat]

Helio Gracie has my full respects. He had more "kung fu" in his little toe than you and all of your knucklehead friends here put together and multiplied by a million!

you know nothing of anyone here or what they practise so please refgarain from labelling everyone who you dont agree with as a "knucklehead" or a "glorified kickboxer" when msot of these people are more experienced own there own schools fight professionally or are just generally tougher than you.



He practiced BJJ until old age while most of the BJJ "kings" here will be nursing long term chronic injuries and will be lucky to walk properly if they ever make it to their old age. another blanket statement here about people or arts you know nothing about :rolleyes:

unlike you guys they could fight for real.
again something you have no idea about, how do you know they cant fight for real? i assure you i CAN and HAVE fought for real many a times and i'm sure alot of people here have aswell, so where your getting this from i dont know :rolleyes:



So I should identify myself so that you and your friends Sanjuro ronin, kansuke can use my real name at your attempts at character assassination?

The same goes for my other kung fu training! without a name or any info on your background, nothing you say carries weight, as far as we've ascertained so far you've trained for what 2 years? your sifu disowned you
not really making a good impression are we?

people here, including myself have been training most of their lives! so what you say doesnt mean squat.


You and your forum knucklehead buddies have already dragged my Wing Chun sifu´s name through this forum by your slanderous attempts at character assassination. Why should I provide you with more ammo? its only ammunition for them because its just laughable, i actually agree i suppose its not a good idea to tell them any more because so far your MA careeer is just plain laughable :D



Hasn´t it crossed your and Sanjuro_ronin´s "minds" that perhaps some sifus do not want their names sprawled all over the internet associating them with lies,flame wars and so on?
You guys would have known that fact if you had really trained tradtionally or in your case if your sifu had bothered to teach you traditionally.
i can imagine sifu's dont want to be associated with you on the internet but otherwise they shouldnt mind


and yeah i dont think you realise who dave was taught by ahaha


It seems that he didn´t teach you authentically for very good reasons as traditional kung fu teachers do not teach nothing but the superficial stuff to the rif raff among their students! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


And by the way, unlike you, I am not here to sell my kickboxing business!

As far as I am concerned you are nothing but a glorified kickboxer. By the way, do you fight under the name of Dave "The Fat Kid" Ross? If you don´t then please consider it as it has a very good ring to it and it "surprise,surprise" suites you!

On another positive note if Sumo wrestling ever becomes a fad then it will be relatively easy for someone of your "built" to "crosstrain" in that too and perhaps make a "quick buck" business out of that as well.
oh a fat joke, that makes people sympathise with you......



Furthermore, I am not here to sell my grand ability to break pieces of wood and slabs by showing you my YouTube clips (hello Sanjuro ronin) and call it "kung fu"! In short I am not here to promote my person! you've done that marvelously LOL


I am here to talk, discuss and learn more about genuine kung fu training. I am aware of the virtues of ring fighting; the grappling arts;Ken Shamrocks fighting ability and so on. If I need any more enlightenment on that subject then I will go to an MMA forum for the relevant info. Thank you! [QUOTE] MA is MA names are just names i though we've been through this the only differences in the minutia and training methods

MMA can mean a multitude of different things and kung fu is essentiall different mixed martial arts so people will discuss what they like WHEREVER THEY LIKE because its all realtive to the subject of combat [QUOTE]

Other then that the rest of you are here only to "sell" something that is irrelevant to kung fu and only used the kung fu tag for marketing purposes!
a forum is made up of people from ALL OVER THE WORLD they can hardly all go to daves school can they?
a forum is a stupid place to promote your school thats what websites are for! other than there is nothing wrong with promoting your school anyway!

but i doubt anyone apart from gene has made any money from this forum and thats only through WWW.MARTIALARTSMART.COM GET YOUR GOODS NOW FOLKS !!! :D

[sanjuro_ronin]

“The Jiu-Jitsu that I created was designed to give the weak ones a chance to face the heavy and strong. It was so successful that they decided to create a sportive version of it. I would like to make it clear that of course I am in favor of the sportive practice and technical refinement of all athletes, whatever their specialty may be, as well as good nutrition, sexual control, avoidance of addictions and unhealthy habits. The problem lies in the creation of a sport-oriented Jiu-Jitsu, based on rules and time limits, which benefits the heavier, stronger, and more athletic individuals. The primary objective of Jiu-Jitsu is to empower the weak who, for not having the physical attributes, are often intimidated. My Jiu-Jitsu is an art of self-defense in which rules and time limits are unacceptable. These are the reasons for which I can’t support events that reflect an anti Jiu-Jitsu.”

On topic:
Helio had some interesting views, and while he liked to THINK that his form of BJJ was self defence oriented, the fact that he thought that "real fights" can last a very long time makes it clear that he didn't take into account a slew of "real" things that can happen in the "real world".
Personally I always found Carlson Gracie's BJJ more "street oriented".
I found that GJJ tend to be a tad passive at times, more reactive than I care for,
Carlson's was more aggressive.
And sport fighters ALWAYS try to end a fight as quickly as possible, to an extend anyways.
Time limits actually make more sense in a "practical" way than no time limits, because in the "real world" you won't have
all the time in the world" to finish your opponent.

Respect for the GM, but this was a case of Ririoneske advertising.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

well, I masturbated in YOUR socks and now you're wearing them. :p

thank you.

[David Jamieson]

You're right. First I'll have to work on the prejudice that I consider everything you write as hotair BS.

no, not at all, first you have to STFU and then you have to stop being a coward and then you can start dealing with your inner turmoil.

[Mr Punch]

On topic:
Helio had some interesting views, and while he liked to THINK that his form of BJJ was self defence oriented, the fact that he thought that "real fights" can last a very long time makes it clear that he didn't take into account a slew of "real" things that can happen in the "real world".
Personally I always found Carlson Gracie's BJJ more "street oriented".
I found that GJJ tend to be a tad passive at times, more reactive than I care for,
Carlson's was more aggressive.
And sport fighters ALWAYS try to end a fight as quickly as possible, to an extend anyways.
Time limits actually make more sense in a "practical" way than no time limits, because in the "real world" you won't have
all the time in the world" to finish your opponent.

Respect for the GM, but this was a case of Ririoneske advertising.Interesting. The sport BJJers I've rolled with (in a sports setting of course) were always aggressive because as you say, they always wanted to finish things quickly, but as soon as they hit the ground they tend to relax and wait for you to mess up to finish you: as you say more reactive. Whereas, the subs guys and wrestlers were far more aggressive on the ground and would finish me in a second or two (:eek: :D ). Admittedly, I've never done competition but we did do sparring where the teacher encouraged us to go for the quickest finish... and from the MMA I've watched it now I come to think of it, the BJJers tend to be more cautious (?) on the floor.

[Hardwork108]

you know nothing of anyone here or what they practise so please refgarain from labelling everyone who you dont agree with as a "knucklehead" or a "glorified kickboxer"

You misunderstand!

Calling them knuckleheads or glorified kickboxers is not meant as an insult but an honest description.



when msot of these people are more experienced own there own schools fight professionally or are just generally tougher than you.

That still does not mean that they practice genuine kung fu and does not explain their presence and hence their "advice" on kung fu training in a KUNG FU FORUM.


another blanket statement here about people or arts you know nothing about :rolleyes:

You will understand the significance of my "blanket" statement when you are a little older (and hopefully wiser).;)


again something you have no idea about, how do you know they cant fight for real? i assure you i CAN and HAVE fought for real many a times and i'm sure alot of people here have aswell, so where your getting this from i dont know :rolleyes:

Well to be honest I suspect some of them can fight for real eventhough I still doubt if they can fight for real using kung fu as they keep demonstrating their understanding of kung fu to be at best SUPERFICIAL!

Furthermore fighting for real the way the Gracies did in Rio de Janeiro is quite different from most of your "fighting for real".;) Manchester may have a "tough" image in the UK but in the Brazilian or Colombian back streets it means nothing. At best you guys would beat these guys by making them laugh till they are unconscious and even then you may need your friends to help you.


without a name or any info on your background, nothing you say carries weight,

You still dont get it do you? What I say carries weight with those here who practice authentic kung fu and not Glorified Kickboxing. I am interested in the people here who are authentic kung fu practitioners.

That way I can learn and enhance my knowledge regarding kung fu training, the various styles and so on.

Doesn't that make sense even to you? After all this is a KUNG FU forum and not a "Kung fu does not work" forum; "MMA is great" Forum nor "Kickboxing is practical" Forum!



as far as we've ascertained so far you've trained for what 2 years? your sifu disowned you

You are repeating the lies propogated by lkfmdc and Sanjuro ronin, therefore losing the little credibility that you may have had left.

If you are really interested in how long I have practiced kung fu then use your punchdrunk "brain" to direct your mouse to my profile and if it is not too much of a stress on your fragile neurons, make a click.



not really making a good impression are we?

As you can see for yourself it is you who is messing up big time.


people here, including myself have been training most of their lives! so what you say doesnt mean squat.
Your zillion years of training is not in authentic kung fu making it rather irrelevant when one "dare" to discuss kung fu matters in this KUNG FU FORUM!


its only ammunition for them because its just laughable,

Believe me that no one is laughing here as loud as me and a few other genuine kung fu practioners here. You just don't have any idea about the subject at hand and are making a fool out of yourself everytime you post to me, but hey dont worry as you are in very "good" company.


i actually agree i suppose its not a good idea to tell them any more because so far your MA careeer is just plain laughable :D
Yet again you are attempting to "sell" Lkfmdc's lies. As I said before all you have to do is click on my profile to see.

So there you go use your "brain" to direct your hand to position the mouse on my profile and then click. When you recover from this stressfull activity then you can read my profile and see how long I have trained. Good luck with that.


i can imagine
Don't you think that you have "imagined" enough for today? Give that "brain" of yours a rest, will you!



sifu's dont want to be associated with you on the internet but otherwise they shouldnt mind

I got news for you (and your "brain"), there are genuine kung fu sifus here that are already "associated" with me.



and yeah i dont think you realise who dave was taught by ahaha

I do realize who Dave was taught by, but what you don't realise is, what it was that Dave was actually "taught".;)


oh a fat joke, that makes people sympathise with you......
From where I am looking, it is you who needs all the sympaphies right now.


you've done that marvelously LOL
You finally understood then!


MA is MA names are just names i though we've been through this the only differences in the minutia and training methods

You are generalising like that because you do not have the capacity to understand the profoundedness and scope of TCMAS.

It is like saying cooking food is cooking food but there is a difference between the British cuisine and the Chinese one. I let you and your "brain" figure out the significance of that statement.


MMA can mean a multitude of different things and kung fu is essentiall different mixed martial arts so people will discuss what they like WHEREVER THEY LIKE because its all realtive to the subject of combat
You are really lost here arent you. This is not a general combat forum it is a kung fu forum. Try to understand the difference, but then you can't because you dont really understand kung fu training, do you?



a forum is made up of people from ALL OVER THE WORLD they can hardly all go to daves school can they?
a forum is a stupid place to promote your school thats what websites are for! other than there is nothing wrong with promoting your school anyway!

You really are naive as well or at least you should use a better quality of head gear when you are sparring.


but i doubt anyone apart from gene has made any money from this forum and thats only through WWW.MARTIALARTSMART.COM

And so he should!

But you are still naive!

You may want to look for a better quality of head gear to protect your fragile "brain" so make your way to www.martialartsmart.com

AND:



GET YOUR GOODS NOW FOLKS !!! :D

Thank you!:D

[Mr Punch]

Calling them knuckleheads or glorified kickboxers is not meant as an insult but an honest description.I know English is not your first language but 'knucklehead' is generally considered insulting, as is 'glorified' anything. Just thought I'd help you out there. I'm an English teacher, you know!

[Hardwork108]

I know English is not your first language but 'knucklehead' is generally considered insulting, as is 'glorified' anything. Just thought I'd help you out there. I'm an English teacher, you know!


Point taken!:)

But, it is still an honest description.

Furthermore perhaps if some of these people stopped acting like knuckleheads then there would be less chance of them being called that.;)

As for "Glorified". There are people here that practice MA s that amount to nothing more than a form of kickboxing. However, they "glorify" what they do by using the kung fu or TCMA (art(s) that go far beyond ring fighting) tag.

[Kansuke]

no, not at all, first you have to STFU and then you have to stop being a coward and then you can start dealing with your inner turmoil.



"Being a coward?" How do you figure, you arrogant ****?

[golden arhat]

"You are generalising like that because you do not have the capacity to understand the profoundedness and scope of TCMAS. "

i give up i actually give up i'l leave you to your profound magnificience shall i?
youve failed to take on board anything that anyone has said and continue to repeat yourself
no one and i mean NO ONE agrees with you, about ANYTHING....EVER or at least hasnt done so far i cant be arsed fighting with you its like talking to a child, you actually remind me of me when i was about 12 i used to have very similar views back then

just walk into an mma gym and ask to spar with someone, please do that and film it and then keep talkign about how profound this or that is

for now your officially on ignore
i advise everyone to do the same because there is nothing of worth from this guy

what a waste of time :rolleyes:

[Hardwork108]

"You are generalising like that because you do not have the capacity to understand the profoundedness and scope of TCMAS. "

i give up i actually give up i'l leave you to your profound magnificience shall i?

Please do give up. I got a headache from answering your immature and uninformed posts.


youve failed to take on board anything that anyone has said and continue to repeat yourself
If by"anyone" you mean the MMA-ists such as yourself, then you are right as I did not become a member of this site to take kung fu training advice from them, nor from you!



no one and i mean NO ONE agrees with you, about ANYTHING....EVER or at least hasnt done so far

If by "no one" you mean MMA-ists such as yourself, then you are right as I did not become a member of this site to give authentic kung fu training advice to them, nor to you!



i cant be arsed fighting with you its like talking to a child,

I was talking like a child so that it would be easier for you to understand what I was trying to say, and you still didn't understand. So think Head Gear and click on www.martialartsmart.com


you actually remind me of me when i was about 12 i used to have very similar views back then
You mean you are not 12 now?:eek:


just walk into an mma gym and ask to spar with someone, please do that and film it and then keep talkign about how profound this or that is

Again, if you are an MMA-ist then why post here?

By the way, next time you go to London and pass by China Town then see wether you can go to a kung fu "gym" and fight with them for real . Make sure that you are wearing a hoody as that never fails to "impress".

If you do take a video camera with you then please make sure that it is covered in vaseline so that it doesnt hurt you too much when it is shoved up your du-da!;)


for now your officially on ignore

Well thank god for that. One less knucklehead to waste my time.


i advise everyone to do the same because there is nothing of worth from this guy

I hope that all of you MMA-ists are reading this. There aint nothing about MMA that you are going to learn from me.

I cannot advise you about what to do if Ken Shamrock decides to mug you in a dark alley and so on.

I am not interested in the virtues of Thai Boxing elbows nor the effectiveness of Tae Kwon Do kicks.

So, all you MMA-ists out there do yourselves and ME a favor and put me on ignore!

Otherwise go to some MMA forum and post your little hearts out there with your videos of breaking pieces of wood and "Real fighting".

Make sure that you include your real names in your forum profiles so that everyone who sees your "heroic" videos will know where credit is dew and who they are laughing at (depending on who is watching, of course).


what a waste of time :rolleyes:

You are telling me? Pages and pages of "discussion" and you still didnt learn a d@mn thing about kung fu and its difference with MMA, as practiced by your good self and your other glorified kickboxer friends here.

Truly, what a waste of time!

[golden arhat]

ahahah ignore list

BEST INVENTION EVER:D

[sanjuro_ronin]

Interesting. The sport BJJers I've rolled with (in a sports setting of course) were always aggressive because as you say, they always wanted to finish things quickly, but as soon as they hit the ground they tend to relax and wait for you to mess up to finish you: as you say more reactive. Whereas, the subs guys and wrestlers were far more aggressive on the ground and would finish me in a second or two (:eek: :D ). Admittedly, I've never done competition but we did do sparring where the teacher encouraged us to go for the quickest finish... and from the MMA I've watched it now I come to think of it, the BJJers tend to be more cautious (?) on the floor.

BJJ originally didn't have a time limit so when you go to the ground, where you were gonna spend lots of energy, you relaxed and went with the flow.
Wrestling, like judo has time limits on the ground so you tend to be more active.
Its not so much a cautious thing, everyone is cautious, its a relaxing and not rushing thing.

[Hardwork108]

ahahah ignore list

BEST INVENTION EVER:D


It is funny and ironic that you were the one who always instigated our "exchanges". Things did not turn out the way you expected them to, eh?

Don´t bother to answer even if you are reading this. Thank you.

[MasterKiller]

Make sure that you include your real names in your forum profiles so that everyone who sees your "heroic" videos will know where credit is dew and who they are laughing at (depending on who is watching, of course).!

What is your real name? Where is the video of your authentic kung fu in action?

[David Jamieson]

"Being a coward?" How do you figure, you arrogant ****?

who are you?

what's your name?

why do you open new accounts to hurl more insults?

It's not much to compare your IP with your same IP on your other account.

can you put your own name to your statements and have it stand?
I don't think you can, because you are a coward.

People use screen names, but, people who believe what they say and do what they believe have more balls than you. You are consistently a troll and a coward in your statements. Which by the way are mostly useless mudslinging, or belligerent remarks to other forum members, or whining because you have sand in your crotch over some perceived slight to something you think you might have a different view on despite your inability to express that in writing.

so, little bag of ****, what's it gonna be? You gonna grow a pair? Keep whinging or get the fuk outta here?

I'll have to get some tissues if you insist on crying all the time.

In the meantime, fuk off and while you're fuking off, shut up.

thanks, have a nice day. :)

[lkfmdc]

who are you?

what's your name?

why do you open new accounts to hurl more insults?

You are consistently a troll and a coward in your statements.

so, little bag of ****, what's it gonna be? You gonna grow a pair? Keep whinging or get the fuk outta here?

I'll have to get some tissues if you insist on crying all the time.

In the meantime, fuk off and while you're fuking off, shut up.

thanks, have a nice day. :)

you are talking to "hardwork", right?

[EarthDragon]

OK now I'm confused who's fighting with who? Just when i think i got an idea who doesnt like each other a new argument insues between two different people:confused:

If these people put half the energy into thier training as they do thier agruing then they should be crowned grand masters.

[Kansuke]

who are you?

what's your name?

why do you open new accounts to hurl more insults?

It's not much to compare your IP with your same IP on your other account.

can you put your own name to your statements and have it stand?
I don't think you can, because you are a coward.

People use screen names, but, people who believe what they say and do what they believe have more balls than you. You are consistently a troll and a coward in your statements. Which by the way are mostly useless mudslinging, or belligerent remarks to other forum members, or whining because you have sand in your crotch over some perceived slight to something you think you might have a different view on despite your inability to express that in writing.

so, little bag of ****, what's it gonna be? You gonna grow a pair? Keep whinging or get the fuk outta here?

I'll have to get some tissues if you insist on crying all the time.

In the meantime, fuk off and while you're fuking off, shut up.

thanks, have a nice day. :)



Oh, you are upset that I haven't put my name, address, phone number, social security, blood type, and medical history on this forum? You've got a pretty ****ed up notion of 'cowardice' (just like you have a ****ed up notion of about everything else as far as I can tell) you moron. I like the way you then expand the definition of 'cowardice' to cover every post you don't like.

If I don't have the respect of a turd like you, nothing could please me more.

You're sore because you acted like an insufferable d-bag and got called on it. You know it's true and you are now going through every act you can think of to cover your shame. Why not just stop being a d-bag and avoid the trouble?

[sanjuro_ronin]

You guys really need to stop these cross-thread insult posts.
Just put each other on ignore.

[Lucas]

You guys really need to stop these cross-thread insult posts.
Just put each other on ignore.

less wisdom, more pictures of ass

[sanjuro_ronin]

less wisdom, more pictures of ass

Fine.....
:)

[Lucas]

Fine.....
:)

fine indeed.

those thighs would break a lesser man

[Hardwork108]

What is your real name?

If you want to know the real me then please read my posts on kung fu (the posts where I am not warding off MMA-ists, that is!).

If you understand traditional kung fu then that is where you will meet the real me and not by some name I give out on the internet.



Where is the video of your authentic kung fu in action?

There are no videos of my sifu on the internet currently and that is because he did not dedicate decades of his life to kung fu so that he can use videos to impress internet knuckleheads!

But then who knows, perhaps he will change his mind and in the future may make some videos (as do some other authentic sifus) for educational purposes and to catalogue the techniques in his lineage of Wing Chun.

However, that is not up to me nor you to decide as it is his decision.

[1bad65]

It would have been easier to just tell MK 'No', than embarrass yourself further with your ridiculous excuses.

[MasterKiller]

Make sure that you include your real names in your forum profiles so that everyone who sees your "heroic" videos will know where credit is dew and who they are laughing at (depending on who is watching, of course).!


If you want to know the real me then please read my posts on kung fu (the posts where I am not warding off MMA-ists, that is!).

If you understand traditional kung fu then that is where you will meet the real me and not by some name I give out on the internet. You want MMA people to post their names and videos for ridicule. You should do the same. Practice what you preach. Maybe you have the real deal. So let's see it, bro.


There are no videos of my sifu on the internet currently and that is because he did not dedicate decades of his life to kung fu so that he can use videos to impress internet knuckleheads!

However, that is not up to me nor you to decide as it is his decision. I don't care about your shifu. He's not here making absurd comments. Where are the videos of YOU performing Authentic™ Real® kung fu?

[sanjuro_ronin]

fine indeed.

those thighs would break a lesser man

Yes, yes they would.

[lkfmdc]

Where are the videos of YOU performing Authentic™ Real® kung fu?

"Hardwork" showing his 100% authentic, very real super powerful kung fu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlfMsZwr8rc&NR=1)

:rolleyes:

[Hardwork108]

You want MMA people to post their names and videos for ridicule. You should do the same. Practice what you preach. Maybe you have the real deal.
No I don´t want MMA people to post their names!!!! Why does the All Mighty take away your ability to recognize irony everytime he blesses you with the "sense":rolleyes: to crosstrain kung fu with irrelevant arts????

IT WAS A GAG MASTER KILLER!


So let's see it, bro.

"bro"?...lol!


I don't care about your shifu. He's not here making absurd comments. Where are the videos of YOU performing Authentic™ Real® kung fu?

Just a piece of advice, it will be very difficult for you to learn real kung fu from watching the YouTube. I know that this is difficult for you to believe but it is the truth.:D

[Water Dragon]

Hardwork108 = the best Troll I've seen in a long time. Look how worked up he's getting you guys. This guys pretty ****ed entertaining.

[taai gihk yahn]

Hardwork108 = the best Troll I've seen in a long time. Look how worked up he's getting you guys. This guys pretty ****ed entertaining.

personally, I miss Happeh...

[MasterKiller]

Just a piece of advice, it will be very difficult for you to learn real kung fu from watching the YouTube. I know that this is difficult for you to believe but it is the truth.:D

Is this real kung fu?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG_n7I7QUN0&feature=related

[1bad65]

Come on Hardwork, show us all the 'real Kung-Fu' you have.

I remember what happened to the last idiot who claimed to have the 'real Kung-Fu'....

[Hardwork108]

Is this real kung fu?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG_n7I7QUN0&feature=related


It was probable more "real" kung fu than anything that you have learnt.

Having said that, the fact is that I am not aware of the rules and conditions of that fight. It would seem that it was not even a "real" fight. It looks like sparring.

So perhaps it would be best to conclude that it was REAL kung fu sparring, rather than real kung fu people trying to kill each other.

Does that make sense?

[Hardwork108]

Come on Hardwork, show us all the 'real Kung-Fu' you have.

I remember what happened to the last idiot who claimed to have the 'real Kung-Fu'....

You misunderstand "real kung fu".

It is not about YouTube videos of me breaking pieces of wood:rolleyes: or sparring.

Real kung fu is about the traditional approach(s) to training. Either you follow the authentic ways or you don`t and hence go on to "invent" what you regard as more "functional", "less borring", "more interesting","more real", "modern", "scientific", etc.(take your pick), as well as crosstraining what little you know with irrelevant arts.

I hope that is clearer now.:)

[1bad65]

Then let's see some video of you training.

[Kansuke]

'Real' kungfu man just keeps on trolling along...

[Hardwork108]

Hardwork108 = the best Troll I've seen in a long time. Look how worked up he's getting you guys. This guys pretty ****ed entertaining.

I am not trying to "work up" anyone. They are working themselves up on their own. It is called insecurity!

They are here to push the "MMA is best" approach and I am here telling them that traditional kung fu training is the best approach for, surprise, surprise, kung fu training.

These guys are saying that they know better than the old masters who created and evolved these styles, because they are "modern" and "scientific".

I am saying that they should take their modern "wisdom" to an MMA forum because as "radical" as my approach may be, I still manifest it in a KUNG FU FORUM and not an MMA one!

Conclusion - they are the trolls and not me!

Thank you for your time.:)

[1bad65]

'Real' kungfu man just keeps on trolling along...

And making excuses for not posting video of his 'real Kung-Fu'. :rolleyes:

[Hardwork108]

And making excuses for not posting video of his 'real Kung-Fu'. :rolleyes:

As I have said many times before, I am not here to post YouTube videos of myself to impress internet knuckleheads. I'll leave that to the Glorified "kung fu" Kickboxers who need to show what they "know" for much needed attention.

End!

[1bad65]

Look bonehead, you insult people here by calling them names when they question your bs claims. You said "It was probable more "real" kung fu than anything that you have learnt." to MasterKiller. Well, MK has posted video of himself. We want to see yours to compare it with his. You made the claims, now back them up.

[Hardwork108]

Look bonehead, you insult people here by calling them names when they question your bs claims. You said "It was probable more "real" kung fu than anything that you have learnt." to MasterKiller. Well, MK has posted video of himself. We want to see yours to compare it with his. You made the claims, now back them up.

I made the "claims" that I practise traditional kung fu in a traditional way. I did not claim to be able to fly over tall buildings or punch holes in walls. What, you want to see me do forms or punch the sand bowl or do chi sao?

If so, then go and get a life first, as I said before, I am not here to impress knuckleheads.

If you knew anything about authentic kung fu training then you would have seen my kung fu by the posts that I make on other threads, just like I see that most of you guys don`t really train kung fu, by merely reading your posts. Most of you are MMA-ists!

Next question: What the hell are you doing posting in a kung fu forum you trolls?!

[1bad65]

I made the "claims" that I practise traditional kung fu in a traditional way.

Then let's see it.

[Kansuke]

I made the "claims" that I practise traditional kung fu in a traditional way.

The real problem is that you keep 'claiming' to know whether or not everyone else is 'real' or not, despite the fact that virtually everyone here has far, far, far more experience than you.


If you knew anything about authentic kung fu training then you would have seen my kung fu by the posts that I make!


Yeah, that argument doesn't work out real well for you.

[Hardwork108]

I forgot to STRESS that for anyone to see real kung fu anywhere it would be a good idea for them to practice real kung fu. Just a hint.;)

[Water Dragon]

They are here to push the "MMA is best" approach and I am here telling them that traditional kung fu training is the best approach for, surprise, surprise, kung fu training.


I trained Tai Chi for ten years in William CC Chen's method, have a blue belt in Shuai Chiao, brown belt in Judo, blue belt in BJJ, Did Muay Thai and MMA for about 3 years, and dabbled in Kun Tao, Southern Mantis, and Word Boxing. I've had the honor of working under some of the most talented guys in the world, one of whom posts on this board from time to time.

There is no 'best approach'. You find the best guy you can find in your area, and you learn whatever he teaches. It all becomes unique to you in the end. <-- This is the best martial arts advice I have ever received.

[diego]

Look bonehead, you insult people here by calling them names when they question your bs claims. You said "It was probable more "real" kung fu than anything that you have learnt." to MasterKiller. Well, MK has posted video of himself. We want to see yours to compare it with his. You made the claims, now back them up.

my nephew loves heman and he calls skeletor that...we always saying "look bonehead" HAH

Real kung fu uses weapons like ninja

[Hardwork108]

There is no 'best approach'. You find the best guy you can find in your area, and you learn whatever he teaches. It all becomes unique to you in the end. <-- This is the best martial arts advice I have ever received.

I see what you are trying to say as all training becomes unique to you in the end. However, you need to learn any art correctly and diligently before you make it yours. To do so in kung fu training you need to train it with a sifu who has studied it in an authentic way and not in the modern McDonald fashion.

That means that kung fu has to be studied in the way that it was designed (taking into account stylistic differences and requirements), that is, practising it holistically, including all the ranges,internal training,Iron Palm/Shirt,foundation training, etc.

This type of training approach encompasses many years of serious study.

[So I find it laughable when people who have practiced a dozen different MA styles, one or two of which may have been kung fu - with god knows whom - suddenly give "expert" advice or more likely criticisms regarding the effectiveness of kung fu.]

Once a given style of kung fu has been studied in such a way then one can go on and make it his own and hence will be qualified to make constructive criticisms.

In modern MMA terms.

If you decide to use the "modern" approach then it is best to train with schools or instructors of reputation with an approach that will reflect their experience.

[Kansuke]

I find it laughable when people who have practiced a dozen different MA styles, one or two of which may have been kung fu - with god knows whom - suddenly give "expert" advice .




Who did you study with again?

[golden arhat]

you want to see me do forms or punch the sand bowl or do chi sao?

yes. and some sparring/fighting

i've posted videos of myself here before sparring albeit when i was 15 ahah (more coming some time haha)

in spite of everyone having disagreements here no one doubts the validity of what i practise, apart from you lol how strange.

[Hardwork108]

yes. and some sparring/fighting

And as I implied before, if you need to see me on YouTube for you to somehow assess wether I train authentically then that says more about your authentic understanding of kung fu then it does of any lack in mine.

Besides, for all intents and purposes you and your MMA lot are incapable of recognizing genuine kung fu training. So asking me to "show off" to you is pointless.

And again, I am not here to prove anything to MMA knuckleheads. Others here who actually practice kung fu for real have already recongnized my kung fu training approach through discussions or reading my posts.


i've posted videos of myself here before sparring albeit when i was 15 ahah (more coming some time haha)

Of course you have. That is why you are here aren&#180;t you? That is to show your "talents" and get as much needed attention as you can.

That is like what a lot of attention starved people do here and they are "honest" enough to include their identities so that when mere mortals here watch their "incredible" wood breaking or sparring videos they can know these "heros" by their name.

However, it seems that some of these "honest" heroes are not honest enough to not spread lies and untruths about others posters who actually do practise kung fu.

I on the other hand do not need to prove anything to you or any of you MMA buddies whose participation in this kung fu forum is still a mystery to me.

I am here to discuss kung fu and learn as much as I can about its different aspects. Seeing MMA-ists sparring or breaking pieces of wood (hello Sanjuro) on you tube will not enhance my kung fu knowledge. Putting videos myself practising authentically is not going to be any good either.

Some of you people have literally dozens of years of (M)MA practise under your belts and you still have not "come across" the essence of genuine kung fu. Or to put it bluntly you guys don&#180;t understand kung fu beyond the superficial level and would not recognize it if it fell on your heads. So I fail to see what you would "recognize" as authentic in any kung fu clip that I (a kung fu student)or anyone else puts up.

Why don&#180;t you go to some of the specialist kung fu threads. Many of them start as kung fu questions but by the 3rd, 4th or 5th post etc. they usually (not always) turn into an MMA discussion with references to Muay Thai elbows this or BJJ grappling that!!!

Why? Because that is the "kung fu" level of most people who post here. They have scratched the surface of kung fu but have found their answers in other arts.

Furthermore, if one "dares" to stick to the kung fu aspect of a given kung fu thread or is critical of its derailing, then one may be "attacked", then when one reacts and puts the attackers in their place then one is called a "troll" by the same people who have problems even with the spelling of the word "kung fu"; have doubts about its combat effectiveness; are usually critical about it and more often than not, are here just to sell or market some MMA school/approach or to feel good about their "abilities" by posting "incredible":rolleyes: YouTube video clips of themselves.

Yes the same people who inspite of being MMA-ists post here in the Kung fu Forums to mainly "enlighten" the rest of us and anybody else who practises authentic kung fu on the planet, about the "superiority" of the MMA approach and/or to market some MMA school or seminar.

On the other hand , seeing a genuine kung fu sifu showing applications and explaining techniques is another story, but then how many real kung fu sifus post on this site? 5 or 6?

There may be other genuine sifus who read the posts (kung fu sifus like a good laugh too, you know) but who are not registered members hence they don&#180;t post, which is understandable.

They don&#180;t post perhaps because they know deep inside that it won&#180;t do any good and they may not want to be criticised and ridiculed by know nothing, glorified kickboxes.

Sometimes you get posts by Chusauli and Vajramunti (each one of these guys has more kung fu in their toe nails than all of the Glorified "I know Kung fu" Kickboxers in this forum, put together) that are criticised by our MMA "kung fu-ist" fraternity.


in spite of everyone having disagreements here no one doubts the validity of what i practise, apart from you lol how strange.

You misunderstand!

I don&#180;t doubt the validity of what you practise nor your dedication. The truth is that you practise MMA but NOT kung fu!

That is all. You are an MMA-ist and lack any real understanding of kung fu- just like most people who post here in the kung fu forum.

[Kansuke]

That is all. You are an MMA-ist and lack any real understanding of kung fu- just like most people who post here in the kung fu forum.




The two-year Grandmaster has spoken!!!

[bawang]

i think the gracies went against sport because they werent unbeatable anymore, people figured them out

[golden arhat]

And as I implied before, if you need to see me on YouTube for you to somehow assess wether I train authentically then that says more about your authentic understanding of kung fu then it does of any lack in mine.



well you seem to manage ok considering you base weither peopel train authentically or not on nothing at all, literally nothing, you dont know anything about anyone here!

at least i'm asking for evidence.

[Hardwork108]

well you seem to manage ok considering you base weither peopel train authentically or not on nothing at all, literally nothing, you dont know anything about anyone here!

I knowledge of the people here is based on what they themselves manifest over the subject of kung fu and of course their profiles.

For example your profile states that you practise MMA. I don't need to see a video clip of you in action for proof, thank you!

Kansuke&#180;s profile states that he is a wrestler, he forgot to mention the that he is an idiot as well, but then a good memory is not his fort and besides one has to only read his posts to know that he is not the smartest apple in the basket.

Yes, my knowledge of you guys is all in your posts/profiles.


at least i'm asking for evidence.

The evidence of my kung fu approach and knowledge is in my posts, that is when I am not fighting off the MMA village idiots of this forum.

Furthermore, you are asking for "evidence" that you wouldn't recognize if your life depended on it!

[Kansuke]

The two-year Grandmaster once again has spoken! :rolleyes: