Master Chan Tai Shan of Lama Pai

[Lokhopkuen]

I've posted a video of one of the last public Demo's of Master Chan Tai Shan demonstrating hard chi gung at the 1993 Tat Wong Kung Fu Championships.
I'm going back through 20 years of Beta, VHS & Mini DV finding some amazing stuff.

Peace

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em1Ijr4eZ44

[EarthDragon]

Let me first start out by saying that I am in no way doubting the skills of master Chan nor am I discounting or taking away any of his skill......
BUT wasnt it David Ross who told others on this board including me said that putting rebar against your throat was a ridiculous palour trick and was joke when someone does it? and you needed an assisting partner to make it look like you were really bending it? and this takes no MA training to perform?

[Lokhopkuen]

I've watched my Martial Brother Don Hamby bend a 1.5 inch rebar against his throat and it didn't seem much the parlor trick to me. All skepticism aside this gentleman was a great Master of Martial Art. He has passed from this earth and deserves our respect.
Peace

[Oso]

I've watched my Martial Brother Don Hamby bend a 1.5 inch rebar against his throat and it didn't seem much the parlor trick to me. All skepticism aside this gentleman was a great Master of Martial Art. He has passed from this earth and deserves our respect.
Peace

1.5 inches THICK?

[taai gihk yahn]

in retrospect, I find the first demo to be less impressive then it seems, in regards to the physics behind it (meaning that breaking the concrete doesn't require that much force, and you don't follow through on the swing); however, the second and third ones are a totally different ball game: the wire breaking was pure - in other words, the "trick" a lot of people do with that is kinking it to create a weak point - sifu never did that - he just put the wire on straight and popped those suckers - and it wasn't always easy, sometimes it took more effort then he would let on; as for breaking the concrete over his head that way, ouch...and no baked bricks for him, he'd pick 'em up at construction site or Home Depot on the way to the gig!

the old man was a character - Mike P. (Lama Pai Sifu) and I have had some great "reflective" discussions (had one today!) about what made him tick, what the essence of his art was, how it manifested through him, why he was "successful" as a fighter; if nothing else, spending time with him was a real wake-up call in terms of dispelling a lot of the BS surrounding TCMA training and usage;

[EarthDragon]

from the "so i tired something new today" thread by shaolinueb,

I wrote...........I can withstand a pretty hard chop to the trechea but to break a wooden bo is remarkable and unheard of. I can bend 6' X 1/2 (#5) rebar with several years of conditioning....but it depends on how long the bar is.. I cannot bend it if its say 6" long

to which eddie replied
thats always been part of the trick. you press up, then forward. pretty simple and very basic concept. now try the re-bar. its even just as simple, but for that trick you need a partner thats in on it

then ten tigers said

pressing against the suprasternal notch is key in this trick, you can do it with a spear, staff, sword, or rebar. I used to do it with target arrows, and kitchen knives, when I was a teen. Bending it up is fun too. You use your chin as a brace.
The key is knowing how to bend it and having a good partner.
as far as where you concentrate your ch'i is concerned? Heck, you can concentrate it in your shoe if it makes you happy. It's a trick, remember?

so my point is why when I as well as others do this its just a trick utilizing NO skill , but when Master Chan does it everyone respects it and calls it hard qigong? Just curious....

[taai gihk yahn]

so my point is why when I as well as others do this its just a trick utilizing NO skill , but when Master Chan does it everyone respects it and calls it hard qigong? Just curious....

again, personally, I agree about the bending part - you are not bending by pushing with your neck against the point, you are pushing up / forwards against the flat of the blade with the top of the sternum; so that particular demo, IMPE, is not indicative of iron-anything;

the wires and the head break - that's another story...

[EarthDragon]

again I respect who he was and not trying to be out of line here,
but neither demo impressed me.. the wire break is bringing the qi from the lower dantien to the upper dantien.. we call this jumbei in qigong you expand the chest cavity.. while it takes practice to cultivate the qi, years actually the break is a just a result of this expansion..... and breaking a patio block is well........ easy... my son and his friend did this in the yard with some blocks I had left over they wear calling themselves iron heads.. they are 13 yrs old cinder blocks break when you touch them wrong..

[taai gihk yahn]

again I respect who he was and not trying to be out of line here,
but neither demo impressed me.. the wire break is bringing the qi from the lower dantien to the upper dantien.. we call this jumbei in qigong you expand the chest cavity.. while it takes practice to cultivate the qi, years actually the break is a just a result of this expansion..... and breaking a patio block is well........ easy... my son and his friend did this in the yard with some blocks I had left over they wear calling themselves iron heads.. they are 13 yrs old cinder blocks break when you touch them wrong..

no disrespect in honestly questioning, I think it's a sign of intelligence;

anway, the bit about the wire - certainly it's about thoracic expansion - which is why the wire needs to be tightly wrapped! but it is still a skill that, as you say, takes time to develop; what I found impressive was how the skin responded - one of us tried a single wire once and had a red mark for quite some time - his red marks dissapeared in very short order;

the patio block, ok, maybe I can see that - of course, he used to do the same thing with a brick as well, which i thicker and has less of a lever arm in a sense to break - but perhaps there is a "trick" to that as well, of which I am unaware

[lkfmdc]

BUT wasnt it David Ross who told others on this board including me said that putting rebar against your throat was a ridiculous palour trick and was joke when someone does it? a



I didn't even post in that thread and never commented, so you must be mistaken at least in saying I made a comment about it

[taai gihk yahn]

I didn't even post in that thread and never commented, so you must be mistaken at least in saying I made a comment about it

well I heard you have a smelly gym (maybe some vinegar?)

[Lokhopkuen]

1.5 inches THICK?

Perhaps I exaggerate ;)

[Lokhopkuen]

again I respect who he was and not trying to be out of line here,
but neither demo impressed me.. the wire break is bringing the qi from the lower dantien to the upper dantien.. we call this jumbei in qigong you expand the chest cavity.. while it takes practice to cultivate the qi, years actually the break is a just a result of this expansion..... and breaking a patio block is well........ easy... my son and his friend did this in the yard with some blocks I had left over they wear calling themselves iron heads.. they are 13 yrs old cinder blocks break when you touch them wrong..

I was impressed then and now. I picked up a piece of the wire after and it was the heavy gage stuff or perhaps I exaggerate. :o

[Oso]

Perhaps I exaggerate ;)

lol, ok...i'm not sure i've ever seen 1.5 inch rebar.

[TenTigers]

lol, ok...i'm not sure i've ever seen 1.5 inch rebar.

not only that, but how LONG is the rebar? From the pic I've seen of people doing it, the rebar is at least eight-ten feet long-which means, it bends on its own.
Do it with a three foot piece.

[David Jamieson]

standard diameter for the thickest (widest diameter) rebar is about 1 1/4 inch. You can indeed get it thicker though, it would be custom though.

[Oso]

yea, but I don't even know what exactly one would use rebar that size for...Hoover Dam maybe?

garden variety rebar is of the 1/2 and 5/8 variety...3/8 is also available but you can swing it through the air and bend it at an angle...I don't even think i've ever seen 3/4 rebar at a job site at any time in the last 20 years.


and, no, not too many people are going to bend a 3' piece of rebar w/ their throat...THAT would definitely require video proof.

[David Jamieson]

yea, but I don't even know what exactly one would use rebar that size for...Hoover Dam maybe?

garden variety rebar is of the 1/2 and 5/8 variety...3/8 is also available but you can swing it through the air and bend it at an angle...I don't even think i've ever seen 3/4 rebar at a job site at any time in the last 20 years.


and, no, not too many people are going to bend a 3' piece of rebar w/ their throat...THAT would definitely require video proof.

bridges mostly get the really thick stuff.

upright supports too, like in underground parking garages get pretty heavy duty reinforcement in the concrete.

[Lokhopkuen]

Chuck Norris could bend 1.5 with his prong :p

[sanjuro_ronin]

in retrospect, I find the first demo to be less impressive then it seems, in regards to the physics behind it (meaning that breaking the concrete doesn't require that much force, and you don't follow through on the swing); however, the second and third ones are a totally different ball game: the wire breaking was pure - in other words, the "trick" a lot of people do with that is kinking it to create a weak point - sifu never did that - he just put the wire on straight and popped those suckers - and it wasn't always easy, sometimes it took more effort then he would let on; as for breaking the concrete over his head that way, ouch...and no baked bricks for him, he'd pick 'em up at construction site or Home Depot on the way to the gig!

the old man was a character - Mike P. (Lama Pai Sifu) and I have had some great "reflective" discussions (had one today!) about what made him tick, what the essence of his art was, how it manifested through him, why he was "successful" as a fighter; if nothing else, spending time with him was a real wake-up call in terms of dispelling a lot of the BS surrounding TCMA training and usage;

You guys were very lucky, too bad you turned out to be glorified kickboxers.
:D

[EarthDragon]

LKFMDC,
sorry if it wasnt you david I thought it was...... my bad

rebar the one I bend is 6 ft in length and its called #5.... steel is numbered not measured in inches.

the most impressed I have ever been is I watched an iron palm master stack 3 tomatoes on top of each other......he hit the stack and squished the middle tomato so bad seeds shot all over the table... the top and bottom ones were unharmed...he explined in broekn english his used qi to pass through the first tomato destroy the seocnd one and pull it back out before he damaged the bottom one. he then did some selective brick breaking with no spacers or lifting and then another very impressive break.
he started with the back of his hand on the brick drew his hand towards his body while spinning the hand around on the finger tips (never loosing contact) and slapped the brick and it broke.
Do you know how hard it is to generate power without lifting you hand off the object? this is true luogung break....

[Lokhopkuen]

You guys were very lucky, too bad you turned out to be glorified kickboxers.
:D

You are a mean person. LOL!:D

[Oso]

rebar the one I bend is 6 ft in length and its called #5.... steel is numbered not measured in inches.



it's both

http://www.sizes.com/materls/rebar.htm

[Lama Pai Sifu]

I've posted a video of one of the last public Demo's of Master Chan Tai Shan demonstrating hard chi gung at the 1993 Tat Wong Kung Fu Championships.
I'm going back through 20 years of Beta, VHS & Mini DV finding some amazing stuff.

Peace

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em1Ijr4eZ44

We have the raw video from the clip, I have never seen the commerical product. Thanks for posting. What is the title of the video??

[punchdrunk]

weird, I've never understood the purpose of those kind of demo's... I'd rather view clips of CTS training and teaching students. I'm sure they would be interesting.

[lkfmdc]

weird, I've never understood the purpose of those kind of demo's... I'd rather view clips of CTS training and teaching students. I'm sure they would be interesting.

CTS the contradiction, standard fare really... but in his defense, back in China those demos helped him sell medicine on the streets and put food on his table

As for us, we were retarded for not recording more of him and him teaching, but here are some pics of him teaching

http://www.angelfire.com/ny/sanshou/lkfgallery.html

[Hardwork108]

I've posted a video of one of the last public Demo's of Master Chan Tai Shan demonstrating hard chi gung at the 1993 Tat Wong Kung Fu Championships.
I'm going back through 20 years of Beta, VHS & Mini DV finding some amazing stuff.

Peace

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em1Ijr4eZ44

Putting aside the authenticity issue of the demonstration it seem that the important fact is that the old man could fight for real and I suppose that is what matters at the end of the day.:)

HW108

PS. By the way, who was the fat kid holding the sword at the beginning of the clip?:D

[golden arhat]

you have a strange definition of fat.

[Hardwork108]

you have a strange definition of fat.

You have a strange definition of thin......lol,lol,lol,lol!

Furthermore, your definition of "kung fu" is a lot stranger than my definition of fat!

However, it it makes you happy then you can read my comment in the following manner :

PS. By the way, who was that musclebound and fit looking kid holding the sword at the beginning of the clip? :rolleyes:

[golden arhat]

i'd love to fight you, i really would. :rolleyes:

[Hardwork108]

i'd love to fight you, i really would. :rolleyes:

Believe me, you wouldn´t!

[punchdrunk]

lkfmdc thanx for the pics, it sounds as though master CTS led an interesting life and had to deal with hardships like many other legends. Even if you don't have tons of pics and vids your "family" is still going strong and the memories will be carried on. Thanx again for sharing.

[golden arhat]

Believe me,

does anyone?

[Hardwork108]

does anyone?


Only those who understand kung fu.:cool:

[Wildwoo]

We have the raw video from the clip, I have never seen the commerical product. Thanks for posting. What is the title of the video??

I was going through some deteriorating VHS and came across the ASIAN CHANNEL recording of the TWTBChampionship.
Here is the youtube title if that is what you are asking
Chan Tai Shan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em1Ijr4eZ44)
Master Chan Tai Shan demonstrates Hard Chi Gung internal power to resist blows and piercing at the 1993 Tat Wong Championship.

[golden arhat]

spare me, your not an authority on anything, you can hardly talk shop with me on MA you've been studying for a puny two years so why dont you go put some more effort and time is tand then talk about "real kung fu"

[Hardwork108]

spare me, your not an authority on anything, you can hardly talk shop with me on MA you've been studying for a puny two years so why dont you go put some more effort and time is tand then talk about "real kung fu"

2 years?????? You don´t read too good do you? LOL!

You should try and win your arguments on merits and not by spreading the lies that your fellow MMA-ist kickboxers have invented.

By the way, people are trying to discuss the actual topic of this thread so if you have nothing to add, which apparently you don´t, then please refrain from posting here, meaning, stop being a troll. Thank you!

[Wildwoo]

Sifu said somewhere there is a video he shot from the grandstands but I haven't found it yet.:confused:
I've become a slave:( Forever digging through boxes of radio active magnetic waste looking for bits of video treasure.) I find it, digitize it, snort a little of the black powder, upload it and he takes the credit:(:(
Not fair but the pay is good:p:D;):p <<Sniff>>

His wife is easy on the eyes too:rolleyes:
Ooooowww! I feel a slap in the back of my head coming LOL! Is it legal for a Kung Fu teacher to wack you whenever he wants?
Bumper sticker: THERE'S NO EXCUSE FOR DISCIPLE ABUSE!!

SOMEBODY HELP MEEEEEE!!!

[Wildwoo]

2 years?????? You don´t read too good do you? LOL!

You should try and win your arguments on merits and not by spreading the lies that your fellow MMA-ist kickboxers have invented.

By the way, people are trying to discuss the actual topic of this thread so if you have nothing to add, which apparently you don´t, then please refrain from posting here, meaning, stop being a troll. Thank you!

I'LL FIGHT YOU BOTH! TOGETHER!! PUT 'EM UP!!:eek:

[golden arhat]

2 years?????? You don´t read too good do you? LOL!

You should try and win your arguments on merits and not by spreading the lies that your fellow MMA-ist kickboxers have invented.

By the way, people are trying to discuss the actual topic of this thread so if you have nothing to add, which apparently you don´t, then please refrain from posting here, meaning, stop being a troll. Thank you!

lol this is a thread on CTS
if you intend to keep it as such then why be so insulting to dave ross if its not about him?

surely thats not on topic

oh wait that doesnt suit you does it.... aha

[lkfmdc]

Hardwork is a pathetic troll whose only outlet is acting tough on the internet. He'd **** his pants if he had to face anyone here. But really the best thing is to just ignore him, he's worthless

[bawang]

where is the honor and respect if he does "authentic kung fu"

[Hardwork108]

lol this is a thread on CTS
if you intend to keep it as such then why be so insulting to dave ross if its not about him?

The thread is not about Dave Ross....lol,lol,lol.

Wait a minute, you mean that fat kid in the video is Dave Ross?????

Wow. You know, I have an ex-girlfriend who lives in the New York area and sometimes suffers from anorexia, maybe I can recommend her Dave Rosses "sanda":rolleyes: training gym. It might just help her put on some much needed weight.

Now leave me alone I a m busy trying to talk my way out of Wildwoo´s challenge.:eek:

And if I were you I would do the same!;)

[Hardwork108]

where is the honor and respect if he does "authentic kung fu"

Bawang, you should read some of the comments these MMA-ists make about authentic kung fu. I am just giving them a little taste of their own medicine.

I do participate in genuine kung fu discussions here in the forums but not with these people. They don´t discuss kung fu. They just criticise!

[Wildwoo]

lol this is a thread on CTS
if you intend to keep it as such then why be so insulting to dave ross if its not about him?

surely thats not on topic

oh wait that doesnt suit you does it.... aha

Hey that sig wasn't for you. I'm so hurt:(
Okay let the internet challenge begin!!!!!
Put 'em up put 'eeeem up!!!:p

[Wildwoo]

Bawang, you should read some of the comments these MMA-ists make about authentic kung fu. I am just giving them a little taste of their own medicine.

I do participate in genuine kung fu discussions here in the forums but not with these people. They don´t discuss kung fu. They just criticise!

I'm a master of MUMA!!!

[Wildwoo]

Mixed Up Martial Artists

[Hardwork108]

I'm a master of MUMA!!!

What is MUMA???:confused:

[Wildwoo]

What is MUMA???:confused:

Mixed Up Martial Artists!!!!!
Mixed Up Martial Artists!!!!!
Mixed Up Martial Artists!!!!!
Mixed Up Martial Artists!!!!!

Don't try to meet me for a challenge! I'm too stupid to read directions, my garmin is broken and I'm on CPT time...

[lkfmdc]

You know, I have an ex-girlfriend who lives in the New York area



great, then one of these days you can come to the gym when you are in town and we can "talk" :rolleyes: face to face.....

I won't hold my breath,

[Wildwoo]

great, then one of these days you can come to the gym when you are in town and we can "talk" :rolleyes: face to face.....

I won't hold my breath,

I wanna Cum! My Sifu don't let me do nuthin' but tape:mad:
The powder Iz gud!!:D

[Hardwork108]

great, then one of these days you can come to the gym when you are in town and we can "talk" :rolleyes: face to face.....

No thanks, my weight is good for my height and age. However if I ever need to put on a massive amount of weight and I am in the New York area then I will come to your "kung fu":rolleyes:, "gym" (isn´t it supposed to be a kwoon?).

I will call you first so that you will have the Big Macs and fries ready when I get there.


I won't hold my breath,

And please don´t hold your breath as we would not want you to have a cardiac arrest. Someone in your physical condition should not be taking unnecessary risks.;)

[Wildwoo]

No thanks, my weight is good for my height and age. However if I ever need to put on a massive amount of weight and I am in the New York area then I will come to your "kung fu":rolleyes:, "gym" (isn´t it supposed to be a kwoon?).

I will call you first so that you will have the Big Macs and fries ready when I get there.



And please don´t hold your breath as we would not want you to have a cardiac arrest. Someone in your physical condition should not be taking unnecessary risks.;)

You gais exude meaness, as the otter exudes it's scent:rolleyes:

[Hardwork108]

Mixed Up Martial Artists

Well MUMA will still put you way ahead of MMA.;):)

[Hardwork108]

You gais exude meaness, as the otter exudes it's scent:rolleyes:
:confused:

[lkfmdc]

No thanks, I prefer to hide behind my computer screen in mommy's basement and just talk crap. In person you'd crush me


Fixed that for you......

[Hardwork108]

Fixed that for you......

and "crush me" you would. All you would have to do is seat on me with that fat @ss of yours and I would be dead instantly...lol,lol,lol.

PS. I see that you still continue to misquote posts.:rolleyes:

[lkfmdc]

blah blah blah I'm a troll, blah blah, meaningless ranting, blah blah, trolling, blah blah




Despite the fact intellectually you know you are safe in mommy's basement, we both know that for an instant you almost cried, knowing that you're a ***** who would go down faster than a $1 hooker

[Hardwork108]

Despite the fact intellectually you know you are safe in mommy's basement, we both know that for an instant you almost cried, knowing that you're a ***** who would go down faster than a $1 hooker

Which instant was that?...lol,lol,lol,lol.

[lkfmdc]

yip yip yip

little troll dog barking

[Hardwork108]

yip yip yip

little troll dog barking

You are losing it...lol. Have a couple of Big Macs and cool down.;)

[Wildwoo]

You are losing it...lol. Have a couple of Big Macs and cool down.;)

Death match?

100 paces with http://www.scenariodreams.com/videos/minigun/minigun.gif

I'll referee but you gais gotta spring for first class air, lemo and 5 star accommodations:D

Oh! And Hookers!! Cute Hookers dressed as Ninjetts!!!!!!:cool:

[Hardwork108]

Death match?

100 paces with http://www.scenariodreams.com/videos/minigun/minigun.gif

I'll referee but you gais gotta spring for first class air, lemo and 5 star accommodations:D

Oh! And Hookers!! Cute Hookers dressed as Ninjetts!!!!!!:cool:

Hey, that is not fair!

I want to referee too. Wait a minute. Lets get hookers for everyone. I am sure we can find some XXL babes for our friend Ikfmdc. too.;)

[taai gihk yahn]

Death match?

100 paces with http://www.scenariodreams.com/videos/minigun/minigun.gif

I'll referee but you gais gotta spring for first class air, lemo and 5 star accommodations:D

Oh! And Hookers!! Cute Hookers dressed as Ninjetts!!!!!!:cool:

no, no, NO!

the OFFICIAL protocol for all KFMF DEATH MATCHES® is sledgehammers at 2:00 AM in a swamp, with proper foot gear!

(f#$&%n newbs...)

[Violent Designs]

hardwork is a pathetic troll whose only outlet is acting tough on the internet. He'd **** his pants if he had to face anyone here. But really the best thing is to just ignore him, he's worthless

lol .

[Violent Designs]

You are losing it...lol. Have a couple of Big Macs and cool down.;)

U fail .

[Wildwoo]

no, no, NO!

the OFFICIAL protocol for all KFMF DEATH MATCHES® is sledgehammers at 2:00 AM in a swamp, with proper foot gear!

(f#$&%n newbs...)

The mini gun has that hightech appeal so attractive to us youngsters of the be all you can be gen and swamp stomp just seems like too much work times alligator dodging. Need more ninjette Hookers. Free ones!! Let's hear it for free hookers!!!:eek:

[lkfmdc]

[/B][/I] Need more ninjette Hookers. Free ones!! Let's hear it for free hookers!!!:eek:

I'm pretty sure that "hardwork" is already used to paying hookers....

[Hardwork108]

I'm pretty sure that "hardwork" is already used to paying hookers....


Hey be thankful for that as thanks to me your mother put you through college.:p

[lkfmdc]

keep yipping from behind that screen in your mother's basement.... you're the poster boy for birth control

[Hardwork108]

keep yipping from behind that screen in your mother's basement.... you're the poster boy for birth control

It is a pity that your parents didn&#180;t see my "poster" before they conceived you. It would have saved them a lot of headaches, not to mention a lot of money on food bills.

[Wildwoo]

It is a pity that your parents didn´t see my "poster" before they conceived you. It would have saved them a lot of headaches, not to mention a lot of money on food bills.

Okay friends why don't you get a room? Lover's quarrels should remain private, no?

[lkfmdc]

from his profile



Hardwork108 has not made any friends yet


:rolleyes:

[Hardwork108]

from his profile



:rolleyes:

Says the man who lists Taai gihk yahn as a friend...lol,lol,lol,lol,lol.

[lkfmdc]

I like how over the past three days he's added a year to his experience every day :rolleyes:

[Hardwork108]

I like how over the past three days he's added a year to his experience every day :rolleyes:


Good old lkfmdc, where everything else fails he turns to his old friend - "the blatent lie".:rolleyes:

[lkfmdc]

yesterday you had "7 years experience", today you list it as "8 years' but let us not forget that when you were banned the first time it was "2 years"

The laws of physics apparently don't apply in your mom's basement :rolleyes:

[Hardwork108]

Okay friends why don't you get a room? Lover's quarrels should remain private, no?

No we are not lovers!

As much as I "like" Lkfmdc,we are just too different.

I like to be honest but lying is second nature to him.

I am secure in who I am and what I practise but he is one of the most insecure posters here.

I practise and discuss authentic kung fu but he is here to sell glorified kickboxing (DVDs included:rolleyes:).

So I will just stick to women with large breasts, thank you.;)

[Hardwork108]

yesterday you had "7 years experience", today you list it as "8 years' but let us not forget that when you were banned the first time it was "2 years"

The laws of physics apparently don't apply in your mom's basement :rolleyes:

The law of honesty apparently don´t apply in your mom´s basement either. Good old lkfmdc has gone back to lying and your feeble attempts at character assassination.

I supposed desperate times call for desperate measures, eh?:rolleyes:

[bawang]

youre not even chinese your a colombian right? why do u even give a fuk about "traditional" "authenticnessness"?
and wing chun is not the stlye to be about tradition and authenticness. its a salt smuggler style. boat robber style. people who take you on their boat across a river then in the middle of the river strip you naked then make you eat wonton and chopped noodles and take your money.

[lkfmdc]

I supposed desperate times call for desperate measures, eh?:rolleyes:

Obviously, or you'd maybe find new material :rolleyes:

You constantly scream how the entire forum is out to get you, you say everything said about you is a lie....

Funny, a bunch of us saw you change your profile on here, first 2 years, then 6 years, then 7 years, then 8 years. You added a whole year since YESTERDAY :rolleyes:

Do you think people forgot the letter from your sifu that was posted on Bullshido? You know, the one where he says you are an idiot and a liar? :rolleyes:

[Hardwork108]

Obviously, or you'd maybe find new material :rolleyes:

You constantly scream how the entire forum is out to get you, you say everything said about you is a lie....

Funny, a bunch of us saw you change your profile on here, first 2 years, then 6 years, then 7 years, then 8 years. You added a whole year since YESTERDAY :rolleyes:

Do you think people forgot the letter from your sifu that was posted on Bullshido? You know, the one where he says you are an idiot and a liar? :rolleyes:

As I said desperate times call for desperate measures. You are lying through your teeth lkfmdc.

By the way, can you provide a direct link to my sifu´s letter on Bullshido? No? What a surprise.:rolleyes:

[lkfmdc]

You constantly scream how the entire forum is out to get you, you say everything said about you is a lie....

Funny, a bunch of us saw you change your profile on here, first 2 years, then 6 years, then 7 years, then 8 years. You added a whole year since YESTERDAY :rolleyes:

Do you think people forgot the letter from your sifu that was posted on Bullshido? You know, the one where he says you are an idiot and a liar? :rolleyes:

Hey, since the whole forum is out to get ya, why don't you just leave?

Haven't you noticed how unpopular you are here?

[Hardwork108]

youre not even chinese your a colombian right? why do u even give a fuk about "traditional" "authenticnessness"?

Because that is the way I was taught.


and wing chun is not the stlye to be about tradition and authenticness. its a salt smuggler style. boat robber style. people who take you on their boat across a river then in the middle of the river strip you naked then make you eat wonton and chopped noodles and take your money.

It still has its (traditional) principles and concepts. Its roots;its internals and so on.

So please "allow" me to train the way I wish. There are many people here who badmouth traditional and train in a "modern" fashion. There are others who don´t even practice kung fu - MMA-ists. Why don´t you jump on their case as well, every time they call kung fu a "fantasy MA" or "unpractical" and so on.

Bawang my beef is not with you. Some of these guys are nasty pieces of work and lie through their teeth everytime they loose an argument. Look at lkfmdc now pretending that I have 2 years of experience and that I am changing my profile.

Him and a few his friends even managed to fool some people into thinking that I was a racist Nazi criminal. How? simply by misquoting my posts.

And of course who can forget Lkfmdc´s other trick referring to my sifu´s letter that apparently disowned me. A complete lie.


If they had done the same to you because of prior disagreements then I am sure you wouldn´t have liked it either.

[lkfmdc]

He thinks that if he whines enough, no one will notice that he's a liar and a troll :rolleyes:

[lkfmdc]

a bunch of us saw you change your profile on here, first 2 years, then 6 years, then 7 years, then 8 years. You added a whole year since YESTERDAY :rolleyes:

Do you think people forgot the letter from your sifu that was posted on Bullshido? You know, the one where he says you are an idiot and a liar? :rolleyes:

[Hardwork108]

Bawang, please read the post below by lkfmdc. All lies (except me being currently unpopular with the kickboxers).

Him and his friends make allegations without any proof. They keep repeating the lies, just like politicians. Why because I don&#180;t agree with them associating MMA with authentic kung fu. Nor do I accept "expert" advice on kung fu matters from MMAists.

There is validity in my opinion, wether they like it or not!

Sometimes they will provide a vague link, knowing very well that most people will not check the facts for themselves.

I know that I sometimes overeact to them, but what they do is not right.



You constantly scream how the entire forum is out to get you, you say everything said about you is a lie....

Funny, a bunch of us saw you change your profile on here, first 2 years, then 6 years, then 7 years, then 8 years. You added a whole year since YESTERDAY :rolleyes:

Do you think people forgot the letter from your sifu that was posted on Bullshido? You know, the one where he says you are an idiot and a liar? :rolleyes:

Hey, since the whole forum is out to get ya, why don't you just leave?

Haven't you noticed how unpopular you are here?

Bawang, I just wanted you to see the other side to this.

[lkfmdc]

LMFAO

notice now he has to re-edit his posts because he's scrambling to explain things away :rolleyes:

The links have been posted, the evidence clear, and troll boy is still tyring to talk crap

TWO YEAR GRANDMASTER :rolleyes:

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Ug, thought there was more discussion about my teacher. What a dissapointment.

It's not even worth posting here anymore. This is ridiculous.

:(

[Hardwork108]

LMFAO

notice now he has to re-edit his posts because he's scrambling to explain things away :rolleyes:

The links have been posted, the evidence clear, and troll boy is still tyring to talk crap

TWO YEAR GRANDMASTER :rolleyes:

You are the one who is "explaining" yourself with your lies... I was just telling it the way it is.

Do you realise that you have highjacked your own teacher&#180;s thread?

I just saw Lama Pai sifu&#180;s post and it made me feel lousy. Unlike you I believe that he takes his art seriously.

So lets just call it a day.

[lkfmdc]

LMFAO at you trying to make it sound like dale is your "buddy"... :rolleyes:

totally pathetic

[jimbob]

Ug, thought there was more discussion about my teacher. What a dissapointment.

It's not even worth posting here anymore. This is ridiculous.

:(

You know, this was the very first forum I signed up to when I first got the internet connected - in 1998. I gave up a looooong time ago. Too many peanuts like Harda$$ or whatever his name is - I'm sorry I'm contributing nothing to this post, but I really enjoy reading about old masters like CTS (I loved the super thread about him a few years back) - and it just saddens me that the adolescents here have to beat their chests.

Ok - rant over - back to anonymity.

[Lucas]

You know, this was the very first forum I signed up to when I first got the internet connected - in 1998. I gave up a looooong time ago. Too many peanuts like Harda$$ or whatever his name is - I'm sorry I'm contributing nothing to this post, but I really enjoy reading about old masters like CTS (I loved the super thread about him a few years back) - and it just saddens me that the adolescents here have to beat their chests.

Ok - rant over - back to anonymity.

ya i really liked that thread too. anyone who read the whole thing im sure did. lots of good info and history in there.

[LSWCTN1]

http://ancientbattlessociety.com/en/org.htm
this is his sifu - a pretty straight forward guy, who came off slightly rude possibly lost in translation?

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17401&page=49 - maybe Rene can help out with this one (was this Leung Kit Chow guy talked of a Sun Nung student?) although SiFu Andria Pivcevic never mentioned this when i met him

in fact he wasnt very prepared to discuss lineage whatsoever - we got a brief overview. and that he learnt in France. he said that his fighting style is Shaolin and wing chun blend.

some things about his sifu i liked, others i did not. i can elaborate if anyone wishes?

hw108 has strong opinions, but on the whole (whether i agree with his approach or not) he has always been polite to me.

however... man, HW108 - you do like to p!ss people off!

you do need to stop derailing all the threads

[lkfmdc]

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17401&page=49 -



LMFAO, please everyone read this thread, it is one of those threads "hardwork" keeps claiming doesn't exist, another total ownage of him, more lies exposed...

[friday]

HW - is that you (CF) in the thread that Dave just posted?

it does sound like you...

[lkfmdc]

HW - is that you (CF) in the thread that Dave just posted?

it does sound like you...

Of course it is! But he's been denying it for days :rolleyes:

[lkfmdc]

A few to the point parts of the above thread

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showpost.php?p=676509&postcount=527

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showpost.php?p=676531&postcount=530

Remember that "wing chun lawyer" is from where "hardwork" claims to have trained

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showpost.php?p=676554&postcount=533

[LSWCTN1]

Sorry to you all, but i do have to stick up for HardWork on this, he posted on Bullshido (under the name ChineseFist) that his sifu has fought and won challenge matches

Chris Jurak? Posted on the (by the way-fantastic) old Chan Tai San thread that his sifu had fought a young up-and-comer in the Chinese army and killed him. I tend to believe this story, because the way that i see it is this: If a master is good enough, open enough, and honest enough to teach you his knowledge of gung fu, then why should he lie about his challenge fights to increase his standing with you? You already believe in his prowess otherwise you wouldn’t train with him

I can say without doubt that this story would have been relayed to him by his sifu - as he told us that during his life he has fought in, i think, 26 challenge matches

As for being disowned by his sifu, whether or not this is true i cannot say, but i certainly saw the post when it was up there originally. However, in contrast to that, there was also a post on Bullshido from a ‘Pedro’ claiming that if anybody wanted to know more about Liang Shen Long/Andria Pivcevic they could contact him directly – this did not denounce HardWork/ChineseFist

His sifu was of a fairly high standard, and he was definitely a fighter. He probably wasn’t short of people challenging him in his younger days as he is very self-confident! HW108 probably will not like me telling you this, but he certainly is very temperamental with his students!

It was a 6ish hour seminar, there are many stories i could tell!

PS: Anyway, if you think he’s bad then you’re all going to want to kill me! I asked the infamous Mofotox of youtube to sign up to here. He has declined at the moment, but i’m working on him!

[sanjuro_ronin]

http://ancientbattlessociety.com/en/org.htm
this is his sifu - a pretty straight forward guy, who came off slightly rude possibly lost in translation?

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17401&page=49 - maybe Rene can help out with this one (was this Leung Kit Chow guy talked of a Sun Nung student?) although SiFu Andria Pivcevic never mentioned this when i met him

in fact he wasnt very prepared to discuss lineage whatsoever - we got a brief overview. and that he learnt in France. he said that his fighting style is Shaolin and wing chun blend.

some things about his sifu i liked, others i did not. i can elaborate if anyone wishes?

hw108 has strong opinions, but on the whole (whether i agree with his approach or not) he has always been polite to me.

however... man, HW108 - you do like to p!ss people off!

you do need to stop derailing all the threads

As an admin on Bullshido, I was contacted by people that trained directly under Sifu Andria Pivcevic and they were very friendly and fortwith.
They explained his views and their training and made it clear that NO ONE speaks for Sifu but Sifu.
In regards to the challenge matches, they didn't know which ones were implied, but they he did "cross hands" with some people to "test each other skills",this did happen.
This happened in Europe and, if I recall correctly, in France perhaps and at times it happened at seminars, so I got the impression that these were "friendly" tests, perhaps similar to what you saw in his UK seminar.
I was told that their WC is a "blend" of WC and shaolin kung fu.
because at the time I wasn't that interested in their system I didn't ask for more details like, what shaolin kung fu they were referring to.
I didn't have a chance to exchange correspondence with Sifu Pivcevic personally, though the offer was made.
At the time I was busy with other things on Bullshido.
Nevertheless, they made it clear that, IF HW8 is who they THOUGHT he was that he has NO clue what he was talking about and that he had at best a couple of years of traning and is probably repeating things he had heard in one of the branch schools.
They did not mention a name, nor did I ask.

[sanjuro_ronin]

As for being disowned by his sifu, whether or not this is true i cannot say, but i certainly saw the post when it was up there originally. However, in contrast to that, there was also a post on Bullshido from a ‘Pedro’ claiming that if anybody wanted to know more about Liang Shen Long/Andria Pivcevic they could contact him directly – this did not denounce HardWork/ChineseFist

See my above post.

[lkfmdc]

Pay attention now......




As an admin on Bullshido, I was contacted by people that trained directly under Sifu Andria Pivcevic and they were very friendly and fortwith.



then at the end of the post, a summary




Nevertheless, they made it clear that, IF HW8 is who they THOUGHT he was that he has NO clue what he was talking about and that he had at best a couple of years of traning and is probably repeating things he had heard in one of the branch schools.

[Hardwork108]

Of course it is! But he's been denying it for days :rolleyes:

Where did I deny it?

[Hardwork108]

As an admin on Bullshido, I was contacted by people that trained directly under Sifu Andria Pivcevic and they were very friendly and fortwith.

You say that you were contacted by "them" yet you say:



They explained his views and their training and made it clear that NO ONE speaks for Sifu but Sifu.

But why did "they":rolleyes: speak if only "NO ONE speaks for sifu but Sifu"????

How did "they":rolleyes: contact you? Was it through mass emailing campaign or was it one email where "they":rolleyes: all signed? Lol,lol,lol



In regards to the challenge matches, they didn't know which ones were implied, but they he did "cross hands" with some people to "test each other skills",this did happen.

Since you were the moderator in that Bullshido thread can you tell us about the matches implied?????

In the past you and lkfmdc had said that I had claimed that my sifu had beaten the Gracies. Can you show us where in the thread I made that comment?

No you can't? I thought not!

Can you also tell us what is so controversial about a kung fu sifu who has fought challenges, to warrant having anyone who mentions its labelled as a fraud or to justify being disowned from one's school for merely mentioning it?

No you can't? I thought not!

In your opinion does everyone have to crosstrain kung fu with kickboxing and BJJ for knuckleheads like you to believe that they can fight challenges?

Why don't you ask LSWCTN1 (and presumabley LoneTiger108) who was at the seminar and heard sifu mention fighting challenges?


This happened in Europe and, if I recall correctly, in France perhaps

That info is in the Bullshido thread. Or are you implying that "they":rolleyes: told you that too?


and at times it happened at seminars, so I got the impression that these were "friendly" tests, perhaps similar to what you saw in his UK seminar.

What gave you that "impression"? Was it what "they":rolleyes: said?



I was told that their WC is a "blend" of WC and shaolin kung fu.

I remember that!

You were "told" right here in this forum by one of the attendies of the seminar who posts here. It was his understanding, however I will tell you that the school position on what is taught is that it is WING CHUN as everything is based on WC concepts and principles. Meaning that no one from the school would tell you that it was a mixture of Shaolin and Wing Chun, not even "they"!

Just to clarify, you mistook the poster's opinion of what sifu teaches as an official description of what is taught and then went on to put your foot in your mouth pretending that it was they:rolleyes:, (yet again!).




because at the time I wasn't that interested in their system I didn't ask for more details like, what shaolin kung fu they were referring to.

Why should you have been interested in their system when you were a moderator in a MA forum where everyone and their grandmothers wanted to know who he was???:rolleyes:

Furthermore, your 5 minutes of WC practice had taught you all you needed to have known about the system so why ask a real sifu, right?


I didn't have a chance to exchange correspondence with Sifu Pivcevic personally, though the offer was made.

Yes he told me all about it when I met up with him late last summer and through consequent emails and phone calls. He was so disappointed that you declined "correspondence"...lol,lol,lol,:rolleyes:


At the time I was busy with other things on Bullshido.

Busy solving the Global climate change problems, no doubt:rolleyes: Or did one you glorified kickboxer knuckleheads had a tear in his punchbag? I hope that there weren't too many tears.



Nevertheless, they made it clear that, IF HW8 is who they THOUGHT he was that he has NO clue what he was talking about and that he had at best a couple of years of traning and is probably repeating things he had heard in one of the branch schools.

Except that "they":rolleyes: forgot to mention that our school does NOT HAVE ANY [B]BRANCHES!!!!!


Yet again the "great" Sanjuro puts his foot in that lying mouth of his....lol.

Sanjuro, I hope that your kung fu is better than your lying.....lol, but then most of us know that it is not! lol,lol.




They did not mention a name, nor did I ask.

Why should you have? You only have a signature that says forum members should include their names/details etc.

But I understand, I mean you and all the Bullshido birdbrains had worn out your "minds" attempting to find my sifu's name, how would you have handled a second name in your punch drunk brains, god only knows.

Anyway, feel free to continue lying.

Lets recap.

So far my posts have been doctored and misquoted by lkfmdc in order to make me out as a Nazi, antisemetic criminal;

Sanjuro had falsly claimed that I had said in that Bullshido thread that my sifu had beat the Gracies and that I had been exposed as a fraud (that is until someone did read the actual thread and manifested his doubts regarding Sanjuro's and Ikfmdc's version of the story after which, and of course, Sanjuro's story changed;

lkfmdc had said that I was disowned by my kung fu sifu/school; he has also said that I only have 2 years of kung fu training experience (which even if true still puts me 2 years ahead of him and Sanjuro as regards authentic training) and there were other lies which I can't remember now.

It is funny how since I stopped posting here for a couple of days the trolling and the lies have continued but somehow Lama Pai sifu hasn't noticed it!

[taai gihk yahn]

It is funny how since I stopped posting here for a couple of days the trolling and the lies have continued but somehow Lama Pai sifu hasn't noticed it!
now why do you think that might be the case?

[lkfmdc]

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17401&page=49 -



LMFAO, please everyone read this thread, it is one of those threads "hardwork" keeps claiming doesn't exist, another total ownage of him, more lies exposed...

[sanjuro_ronin]

LMFAO, please everyone read this thread, it is one of those threads "hardwork" keeps claiming doesn't exist, another total ownage of him, more lies exposed...

This is really old news, seriously, if by now ANYONE thinks that this individual has an ounce of credibility then that is their problem.
This is one of those dead horses that needs to be buried.
All that can be said, has been said.
I would add that Sifu Pivcevic seems to be very open to cross-training and also, from the website posted by LSWCTN1, seems to be trying to take his western MA influences and expand/introduce them to the public ( selected?).
Very cool and commendable.
He is not the first "eastern trained" Sifu to do this, to "re-embrace" (perhaps?) his western MA heritage.
Maybe something more of us shoudl do...

[Hardwork108]

Talk about not answering questions!



This is really old news, seriously, if by now ANYONE thinks that this individual has an ounce of credibility then that is their problem.

And the facade continues.


This is one of those dead horses that needs to be buried.
All that can be said, has been said.
You are surely referring to your "kung fu" resum&#233; here, aren't you?


I would add that Sifu Pivcevic seems to be very open to cross-training and also, from the website posted by LSWCTN1,

So you think that when a Wing Chun sifu trains in western sword fighting SEPARATELY from his TCMA training, then he is crosstraining?

I thought you guys crosstrained because you thought it some how feels gaps in your hand to hand combat "armor".

Furthermore, unlike you who are a `jack of all trades', he is an expert in Kung Fu.;)


seems to be trying to take his western MA influences and expand/introduce them to the public ( selected?).

Well you are right about the selected bit as you Sanjuro would not qualify unless that is you volunteered your services to clean the kwoon bathrooms.


He is not the first "eastern trained" Sifu to do this, to "re-embrace" (perhaps?) his western MA heritage.
Maybe something more of us shoudl do...

I think that we have "embraced" enough martial arts for one lifetime, haven't we, SANJURO?

[Hardwork108]

now why do you think that might be the case?

Maybe it is a Lama Pai "love thaang"?