"training" misconception

[notanexit]

"I trained with sifu_____"(fill in the blank).My former instructor loves to throw this line around.More than likely he just went to a seminar and picked up a form.My problem is that he'll post this on his forum,website or tell this to a new student in order to promote himself.If I say that I "trained" with ___,you would assume that I spent quality time learning from this person.Therefore you would think that I'm a qualified instructor(PAY ME!!)I think many people are fooled by this.Has anyone run into this problem?

[TenTigers]

I see this alot with some of the local Shaolin Kempo instructors who feel the need for legitimacy. I have never seen it done by traditional Sifus.

[Oso]

Here we go again...get a life dude.:rolleyes:

[GreenCloudCLF]

What would you consider "trained with". How long would one have to train for it to count:confused:

[uki]

"I trained with sifu_____"(fill in the blank).My former instructor loves to throw this line around.More than likely he just went to a seminar and picked up a form.My problem is that he'll post this on his forum,website or tell this to a new student in order to promote himself.If I say that I "trained" with ___,you would assume that I spent quality time learning from this person.Therefore you would think that I'm a qualified instructor(PAY ME!!)I think many people are fooled by this.Has anyone run into this problem?to take the thought further, the reason many martial artists on these forums feel the need to first establish who everyone trains with or have trained with, is simply a way of measuring themselves up with a preconcieved bias stemming from a variety of factors within ones life experience... take for instance sanjuro ronin and the first rule of his internet martial arts rules <insert rolled eyes here>:
1- Anyone not willing to identify themselves and their current/past teachers should be treated like the Troll that they are.
now i don't know about you, but i believe that the better martial artists throughout history have remained so because they shared very little about their practice. a respectful martial artist will simply acknowledge that another one practices, perhaps to the extent of sharing techniques, but once the divisive nature of extreme yang alpha males comes into play, there is usually a spark(clash), as only opposites attract... better to remain neutral where one is free to assume positive or negative at will, depending on the situational contexts, thus being unaffected from most everything in general. perhaps this is where we get the the old saying, he who cares for no one in particular, cares for everyone in general...

[taai gihk yahn]

"I trained with sifu_____"(fill in the blank).My former instructor loves to throw this line around.More than likely he just went to a seminar and picked up a form.My problem is that he'll post this on his forum,website or tell this to a new student in order to promote himself.If I say that I "trained" with ___,you would assume that I spent quality time learning from this person.Therefore you would think that I'm a qualified instructor(PAY ME!!)I think many people are fooled by this.Has anyone run into this problem?

a lot of the time, it's filler - meaning that, in general, the public doesn't really care who you studied with, because unless it's Chuck Norris or Bruce Lee, they won't recognize the name in general; so it's just a way of padding out what the public reads; if it's legit., that's fine, but most won't know or even care; and for experienced MA folks, you can usually sniff out the seminar-who@rs pretty easily; personally, I will always qualify if I took a one-time seminar with, who I studied briefly (less than one year) with or studied significantly with (5 yrs. or more);

on the flip side then, it's to gain legitimacy amongst one's "peers", for reasons good or otherwise; personally, I have no problem stating with whom I studied if asked, but this, to me, simply establishes context: it doesn't mean necessarily that I am any good, but it gives an idea out of what ground my information springs; it also helps establish relationships with people I may not know: if my sifu and their sifu were good friends, e.g., it sets up an initial positive context; or sometimes you bump into peeps who studied w/someone you studied with at different times; as such, I don't think it is a big deal to let others know one's lineage, especially in this day and age; but whatever, if one doesn't want to be public about it, that's one's prerogative, and if you know your stuff anyway, who cares; I guess that for me the "problem" arises when you are secretive and spew BS: red flag;

[sha0lin1]

I have seen this on a local website. One schools Master lists all these names on a resume of who he has trained with. Training with and taking a seminar from are two different things and I don't personally believe that you should use that phrase if you have only taken a seminar from someone. When you say "I trained with ...." it makes it sound like you actually spent some time with that instructor in his school. Real training is not just spending 2-3 hours learning a form. You need to understand the applications contained in the form and some of the training drills associated with movements in the form to really get it down. Most seminars don't really do this in that amount of time.

[Taryn P.]

My teachers are low-key and would be annoyed if they found out I was yakking about them on a public forum.

Besides which, if I say something asnine, I don't want it to be reflecting badly on *them*. :rolleyes:

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I learned everything I know from video tapes, so I just list the guys who did the tape as my teachers. :)

[notanexit]

Here we go again...get a life dude.:rolleyes:
What do you mean?Please elaborate

What would you consider "trained with". How long would one have to train for it to count:confused:
That's what I'm trying to understand.If you teach me a front kick,can I tell everyone I trained with you in order to gain students?

a lot of the time, it's filler - meaning that, in general, the public doesn't really care who you studied with, because unless it's Chuck Norris or Bruce Lee, they won't recognize the name in general; so it's just a way of padding out what the public reads; if it's legit., that's fine, but most won't know or even care; and for experienced MA folks, you can usually sniff out the seminar-who@rs pretty easily; personally, I will always qualify if I took a one-time seminar with, who I studied briefly (less than one year) with or studied significantly with (5 yrs. or more);

on the flip side then, it's to gain legitimacy amongst one's "peers", for reasons good or otherwise; personally, I have no problem stating with whom I studied if asked, but this, to me, simply establishes context: it doesn't mean necessarily that I am any good, but it gives an idea out of what ground my information springs; it also helps establish relationships with people I may not know: if my sifu and their sifu were good friends, e.g., it sets up an initial positive context; or sometimes you bump into peeps who studied w/someone you studied with at different times; as such, I don't think it is a big deal to let others know one's lineage, especially in this day and age; but whatever, if one doesn't want to be public about it, that's one's prerogative, and if you know your stuff anyway, who cares; I guess that for me the "problem" arises when you are secretive and spew BS: red flag;
Exactly my point,my former teacher has a reputation for being secretive,and spews a lot of bs.

I learned everything I know from video tapes, so I just list the guys who did the tape as my teachers. :)

My former teacher does the same thing.Except you're man enough to admit it.While he pretends like he always knew it.

[IronWeasel]

Two spaces after a period.:mad:

[sanjuro_ronin]

to take the thought further, the reason many martial artists on these forums feel the need to first establish who everyone trains with or have trained with, is simply a way of measuring themselves up with a preconcieved bias stemming from a variety of factors within ones life experience... take for instance sanjuro ronin and the first rule of his internet martial arts rules <insert rolled eyes here>:
now i don't know about you, but i believe that the better martial artists throughout history have remained so because they shared very little about their practice. a respectful martial artist will simply acknowledge that another one practices, perhaps to the extent of sharing techniques, but once the divisive nature of extreme yang alpha males comes into play, there is usually a spark(clash), as only opposites attract... better to remain neutral where one is free to assume positive or negative at will, depending on the situational contexts, thus being unaffected from most everything in general. perhaps this is where we get the the old saying, he who cares for no one in particular, cares for everyone in general...

I think you took my "rule" out of context.
Its' not about WHO you trained with, because, to a very large extent that is irrelevant because its not THEM that do the fighting for you, its about NOT being honest and straight forward about it and about keeping it a "secret".
Why would you do that?
What do you h ave to hide?
I don't care if your teacher was a pinball machine, not unless you start making "lineage" claims or "my teacher did this" claims.
Fact is, no one cares about lineage until YOU make it an issue.

[golgo]

Two spaces after a period.:mad:

Actually, only one space after a period. Two spaces is antiquated. Modern fonts compensate and add extra space to avoid crowding (unless you still write on a type writer).

[Hardwork108]

"I trained with sifu_____"(fill in the blank).My former instructor loves to throw this line around.More than likely he just went to a seminar and picked up a form.My problem is that he'll post this on his forum,website or tell this to a new student in order to promote himself.If I say that I "trained" with ___,you would assume that I spent quality time learning from this person.Therefore you would think that I'm a qualified instructor(PAY ME!!)I think many people are fooled by this.Has anyone run into this problem?

I suspect that this forum is full of this "problem".

I have also heard of Western "sifus" who go to the far east and "train" for a few weeks with some credible sifus or masters, then they pay them to have their pictures taken with them and then go back to their countries with "enhanced" resumès.:rolleyes:

[Yao Sing]

If the general public didn't base their choice of school/instructor on name brand masters the need to embellish might drop a few notches.

How many students will flock to your door if you list your teacher as a no-name American guy that nobody ever heard about. But say you trained in China or with a little old chinese master (preferably someone with a big spread in one of the trade magazines, reprint posted on the wall and all) or in Brazil or with a Gracie and you can charge top dollar.

[lkfmdc]

I suspect that this forum is full of this "problem".

I have also heard of Western "sifus" who go to the far east and "train" for a few weeks with some credible sifus or masters, then they pay them to have their pictures taken with them and then go back to their countries with "enhanced" resumès.:rolleyes:

the worst problem is guys who study about 2 years and yet think they know everything, you know the infamous "2 year grandmasters" :rolleyes:

[SifuAbel]

Sheesh, if I'm too "let it go", so must you. :rolleyes:

[notanexit]

I suspect that this forum is full of this "problem".

I have also heard of Western "sifus" who go to the far east and "train" for a few weeks with some credible sifus or masters, then they pay them to have their pictures taken with them and then go back to their countries with "enhanced" resumès.:rolleyes:
That sounds like my former teacher.He went to china for a couple of weeks,learned a couple of forms/apps.If you go to his website he states that he "trained" with these legit sifus.

the worst problem is guys who study about 2 years and yet think they know everything, you know the infamous "2 year grandmasters" :rolleyes:
He also did that as well.Over a 2 year period a well known mantis sifu comes to the school and teaches some seminars and POOF!!......he wishes to be addressed as "sifu" and a gold sash appears around his waist.To this day he is still using this sifu's name to make himself legit.

[Luk Hop]

Does this now mean that there will be Bagua & Shuai Jiao instruction on tht side of the metroplex?:rolleyes:

[uki]

I think you took my "rule" out of context.not at all really... lets have a closer look, shall we?
rule number one as stated in your sig... 1- Anyone not willing to identify themselves and their current/past teachers should be treated like the Troll that they are and then in this post you justify your rule with this...

Its' not about WHO you trained with, because, to a very large extent that is irrelevant because its not THEM that do the fighting for you, its about NOT being honest and straight forward about it and about keeping it a "secret".
rule number two... 2- It doesn't matter what someone in your MA has done or even is doing, all that matters is what YOU can do, and again, your own words...
I don't care if your teacher was a pinball machine, not unless you start making "lineage" claims or "my teacher did this" claims.
Fact is, no one cares about lineage until YOU make it an issue.it seems you are implying that you, infact, do care who someone has trained with, eh? i highlighted the important context of your words. :)


Why would you do that?where in all of creation does it say to reveal anything to anyone?


What do you have to hide?its not really a matter of hiding, its a matter of sharing... do you share everything with strangers? the point i am attempting to make is a simple one... by keeping some things to yourself, it's harder for others to gauge you, label you, or measure up to you, of course everyone likes to scream TROLL!!, TROLL!! but that is just another lame excuse and politically correct version of childish name calling when people can't have things their way... boo-hoo, please pass the tissues. :D

but to be a fair sport, since you don't really care who anyone trains with or from where they have gleaned their understanding, i will answer simply this... nature is my teacher, of course this includes people, animals, ideas, concepts, astrology, celestial mechanics, observation, weather, life experience, and so forth. :cool:

[sanjuro_ronin]

not at all really... lets have a closer look, shall we?
rule number one as stated in your sig... 1- Anyone not willing to identify themselves and their current/past teachers should be treated like the Troll that they are and then in this post you justify your rule with this...
rule number two... 2- It doesn't matter what someone in your MA has done or even is doing, all that matters is what YOU can do, and again, your own words...it seems you are implying that you, infact, do care who someone has trained with, eh? i highlighted the important context of your words. :)
where in all of creation does it say to reveal anything to anyone?
its not really a matter of hiding, its a matter of sharing... do you share everything with strangers? the point i am attempting to make is a simple one... by keeping some things to yourself, it's harder for others to gauge you, label you, or measure up to you, of course everyone likes to scream TROLL!!, TROLL!! but that is just another lame excuse and politically correct version of childish name calling when people can't have things their way... boo-hoo, please pass the tissues. :D

but to be a fair sport, since you don't really care who anyone trains with or from where they have gleaned their understanding, i will answer simply this... nature is my teacher, of course this includes people, animals, ideas, concepts, astrology, celestial mechanics, observation, weather, life experience, and so forth. :cool:

OK, lets see if I can make it more clear.
Since it really doesn't matter who we trained with, unless of course it is an issue of discussion, why would anyone have an issue with saying who they trained with?
Even more so if a person is basing his view on the views of WHO trained him.
I say that someone is a troll ( in the internet forum vocabulary) because they are not willing to give out that info because there is no reason NOT to unless you are hiding something, that;'s not to hard to understand is it?
Now, since this is a forum and we don't know and can't see what other people can or can't do ( typically) it does matter what their MA background is, to an extent.
In the end what we do is far more important than what our teachers/master/ coaches can do, so it is best to focus on that than on what other can do, nevertheless, unless you are speaking totally based on ONLY YOUR experiences and knowledge, some sort of acknolegment of "where you are coming from" is needed and certainly won't "kill you".

[notanexit]

Does this now mean that there will be Bagua & Shuai Jiao instruction on tht side of the metroplex?:rolleyes:

LOL...It's funny because its true.Yes Cottrell will master Bagua & Shaui Jiao overnight and teach it.Just like he mastered "combat" taji,luihe mantis,tongbei,"drunken"(systema) groundfighting all in the last couple years.Without a teacher to train him...AMAZING!!!