Anyone Know who this is?

[hskwarrior]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QJn0E1OWI4

This one is hard to tell. It has both Hung Sing and Buk Sing opening, and many many hung sing elements. Definately NOT a chan family form.

so anyone got any clues to whom this is?

[CLFNole]

Don't know but it looks like buk sing to me.

[hskwarrior]

All 3 of Buk Sing's forms are Hung Sing forms. aside from minor modifications, I do the same opening, and I'm Hung Sing.

I don't believe its about flavor, because there's a chan family CLF guy who moves like the this guy.

either way, I know for sure, whether its Hung Sing or Buk Sing, its not chan.

CLFNOLE.....what's the extent of your knowledge of fut san hung sing choy lee fut? what i'm saying is, you quickly said it looks buk sing, but what other true hung sing material have you seen?

[CLFNole]

Not so much the bow but there is a part in there that is very buk sing. They do a chop choy followed by a double pi sow (pull back both arms while leaning back) then go into another chop choy. I see this from buk sing guys a lot but not really from hung sing guys.

Don't claim to be a futsan historian or expert just commenting on the video. I have a lot of old tapes from the Singapore Hung Sing School as well as a number of Buk Sing Yearly Banquets so I have seen enough to make an educated guess.

[hskwarrior]

But everything up to the bow is Hung Sing.

Everything PRE-chan ngau sing does look a little different to what does stem from the latter. Singapore Hung Sing doesn't really look too much like what i know to be hung sing clf. but aside from them, i've never seen anyone else from the Lee Yan Hung Sing lineage to make a good comparison

All i'm saying, is that the 3 forms of buk sing ARE hung sing. Aside from Chui Kwong Yuen, and the Lau Bun lineage (fut san too) i haven't seen too many other Hung Sing Kwoons. There aren't too many OLD schools that are authentic Fut San Hung Sing CLF left anymore.

[CLFNole]

Aside from the bows, which I agree look pretty much the same between hung sing and buk sing, the rest to me looks buk sing in style and execution. My guess for buk sing also stems from the fact that you said it yourself, for whatever reason there isn't much hung sing out there. Buk sing seems for prevalent in Hong Kong.

You have the buk sing banquet tape watch their forms you can see a lot of the same patterns in this one. Like I said it is just my guess.

As far as "authentic" goes I think very little of anything is authentic anymore. All things change with time.

[hskwarrior]

although it ISN'T Lau Bun, a disciple of Lau Bun saw this video, and thought it was his sifu. but by the time this video was made, Lau Bun should have passed away. so, even my sisooks recognize this as very close to what we do.

[CLFNole]

Maybe it is hung sing and maybe it is buk sing, I really won't lose sleep over it becuase in the end it is just CLF. Heck maybe it is a mix.

[hskwarrior]

Flavor and execution is one thing. I agree. In fact, it's nice to see some old material because i see how and where the Lau Bun lineage began to make their own modifications. while in the old ways moves are more clear and articulate, our lineage has blended a few techniques into each other. like our poon kiu, or Circle punch in our lineage as its called. the old guys do it in two moves, but we make one complete smooth circle with no breaks, then yum chop.

[hskwarrior]

let me explain it like this.........in a Hung Sing form, you will find the elements of the crane and the tiger. But, Buk Sing swapt out the crane elements for ALL tiger elements. From a Hung Sing perspective, it stands out completely. But to someone who doesn't know hung sing CLF, you would never know the difference.

There are some other aspects Buk Sing did change that i notice. One of them is the crane hand just before the bow. While Hung Sing people pull it straight back and is straight up and down, while the buk sing pulls it back and it the crane's head is horizontal to the floor. They also strike with the cranes head as well........something we don't have in our opening.

[CLFNole]

Of course we wouldn't know the difference if we don't know the sets, in the same respect if I changed moves in our forms you wouldn't know the difference.

The point is whomever is doing that form it does have some buk sing elements to it. But really does it matter more than knowing if he is hung sing or buk sing?

[CLFNole]

Maybe some of our buk sing brothers that frequent this site can chime in with their opinion.

[hskwarrior]

i totally agree with you........BUT, i wouldn't be suprised if the person IS a Hung Sing practitioner...........

[hskwarrior]

does it really matter if he is a Hung Sing or Buk Sing guy? Yeah, to me it does. Not in a huge way. but if that guy is a Fut San Hung Sing master, it would be nice. With SOOOOO many old Hung Sing people out there, we haven't really seen too much. Yes, we see lots of Buk Sing folks, but I'm looking for people from the Fut San Hung Sing lineage. It's MY lineage. so, yeah, it does matter to ME.

[CLFNole]

Me either. Do you guys do that thing the buk sing guys do where they step in with the chop choy then kidn of step/lean back splitting both hands out (pi sow) then stepping back in with the chop choy? Watch the video again from around 0:25 to 0:35, that is what I am talking about. The buk sing sifu you like, Carey Wong does this a lot when he performs.

[hskwarrior]

as the HE does it, No. We have very similar things, but yes, we step back in with a chop shoy.

See, with most CLF, all i care about is the opening and the closing. there are Hung Mun signals all over it. But when compared to buk sing, the opening and closings of our forms are more than 90% identical to Buk Sing.

[hskwarrior]

aside from the hoi jong and the closing, from :38 to :43 we do the same thing. and from :58 to 1:03 is found in Lau Bun's CLF. There are only a few minor things in this form that we don't have in ours.

[hskwarrior]

from about 1:08 to about 1:11 is what we do in the following clip......

however, this is a really short form.........http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZF3JIuyL_g

and here to.....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4BHsSObQDs

[Fei Li]

If you look in the other videos from the same guy, you find another vid, which is titled "liondance futsan."

Video colour and quality is the same as the other too, so it seems to me it is the same
place and event… So it seems to be clf from Futsan.

[hskwarrior]

it could be IN fut San, but the style of lion dance is also called "Fut San" style.

this one is also from the same demonstration, and is CLEARLY a chan family form. but, he does do the same thing the buk sing guy does, you just have to watch closely.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Wx3PN5fHMY

[CLFNole]

So now you think he is a buk sing guy? :D

[hskwarrior]

maybe!:rolleyes:

[tlcd_hs]

he is hung sing, for the fact that buk sing guys were always lousy lion dancers!

just kidding, hope you guys can take a joke :p