Organizing schools

[SanHeChuan]

How do you organize your curriculum.

Do you have a hierarchical curriculum?
or
Do you have a rotating curriculum?

Do you have classes devoted to a single subject?
or
Do you try to fit everything into single class?

How much time per class do you devote to each;
Warm up
Stretching
Stances
Foot work
Kicks
Hand strikes
Blocks
Application Drills
Empty hand forms
Weapon Drills
Weapon forms
other

How often do you rearrange your curriculum. Introducing new stuff, or cutting out what isn't working, etc.?

-----------------------------------------------

My Previous school of Mantis, great style, great teacher, but teaching style didn't always agree with me.

We had a rotating curriculum until black sash so I always had trouble finding students who knew the same stuff as me. I'd have to jump from person to person or there wouldn't anyone there at all.

He did have classes devoted to single subjects like fitness or kick boxing. But the kung fu classes usually tried to cram every thing into one 45 minute class and them repeat for the advanced class which always left little room to practice anything new.

But If I didn't like the way something was going it would usually change in the next couple of months anyway.

:D

[EarthDragon]

the goal or path should not change, neither should the cirriculum, but class should change alot and remain interesting other wise people quit.

I have our entire system on the wall prinited and framed to see and the tests for rank get you threre.......... but i always teach something different from time to time to keep my students from monotany and make it interesting for them.

They rarely miss class when they know I might teach joint locks on class and throwing another, this is always fresh to do. its like a school lunch if you know sloppy joes is always tuesday you are more likely to skip school that day or not go to lunch because you know what to expect.

[Oso]

rotating within a heirarchal structure.

i honestly don't get how one methodically progresses through a purely rotating curriculum...I can imagine the same issues you talk about...but, apparently, it's one very popular method with commercial schools.

[WinterPalm]

I get the basics going all the time. At least two drills per class focusing on basic attack and counters. Then I mix in something more advanced...I prefer a cyclical style and what people are interested in...but I always have one or another thing to teach.
We always do at least 3 rounds of pads each, shadow boxing, and general fitness work.

[GreenCloudCLF]

I am a big fan of the rotating curriculum. Everyone learning the same thing at the same time, makes teaching easier and more fluid. Stay for enough rotations, learn the entire curriculum.

As for finding people who know the same thing, you are all learning the same thing at the same time, you are all in the same place.

[Tainan Mantis]

i honestly don't get how one methodically progresses through a purely rotating curriculum...



OK.
Glad I am not the only one.
In our classes that I attended the beginners and advanced students all did the same thing for the first hour.

Which was just warm ups and kicks.

I have tried to see how that would become a rotating curriculum, but I can't figure how that would be an advantage.


I am thinking that maybe I need to be a student in a school that has such a curriculum in order to understand it.

In my school now, the new beginners start with 9 kicks of 20 each for a total of 180 kicks. They have to be able to go through those without resting.

In addition I usually add in some 'hold the bar' side kicks, maybe front and round kicks too, if there is time.

They do these also 20 each, but cuz they hold the bar I can stress the proper form and alignment and make them hold the kicks in mid air for about 10 seconds.

[SanHeChuan]

Well I guess I misrepresented.

We had both.
The basics and stuff were hierarchical.
The forms were rotating.
And if you have 10 rotating forms it can get tough to find people who
A) learned the form
B) Kept up with the form
C) are still at the school and
D) are in class that day
:(

[Oso]

currently, i'm rotating on a 4 class basis:

3 classes (M,W,M) are of a particular topic. I have chosen to use the classic "Ti, Da, Shuai, Na" for these three class blocks.

Most classes, everyone does the most basic stuff and then split off by 'level' to work on specific things. So, a constant reinforcement of the basics and then individual work on current details.

The 4th class, every other wednesday, we spar. Sometimes the sparring is topical: standup grappling or chin na counter-for-counter 'sparring' but mostly it's 'free' sparring w/ throwing.

There are two Saturday open floors in that time that I suggest the students spend working on the current topic.

I have the curriculum designed/split amongst the four 'pillars' and 'level'...a matrix.

Over the last 8 years I have experimented with different rotations and find problems with most of them...settling on what I'm currently doing as a 'min/max' on the situation as I see it.

I think this works throuigh a period of time roughly equivilant to 2/3 of the way to a 'black sash' (5 years) call it 3 to 3.5 years. In that last year or two prior to 'black sash' I think there needs to be a mix of independant study, guided study and assistant teaching. After that, over the next 5 years of study under a specific teacher...it's still probably a split of thirds, i guess, with the assistant teaching becoming taking the lead in classes...till one might be ready to teach on one's own...but that varies.

but, i might hold the coveted 'black sash' as something more than the average commercial school might...you've got to be a fighter for sure...capable of passing on the basics...but just starting to get a grasp of the secrets that aren't really secrets ;) :p


SHC, that might address several threads you've started recently.:)

[GreenCloudCLF]

From a strictly forms point of view (I am neither condoning nor bashing forms training, just using them as an example). If the instructor teaches a series of forms, then rotates curriculum for those forms, giving each one 1 month, everyone in the class learns the same form at the same time (making it easier to teach). So say there are 24 forms, make anyone training for black belt go through 2 cycles and BAM! in 4 years you are ready to test for your Black Sash. Good Luck (BTW: Train at home too!)

[Taryn P.]

We've got a "basic" class on Thursdays and an "intermediate" class on Tuesdays. You have to get through the first two student levels to get invited to the intermediate class. There used to be an "advanced" class too, but to my disappointment this one seemed to have evaporated shortly before I would have qualified to be invited to it. :(

In the basic class, we usually do 40-60 min of hand technique drills, kick drills, and other drills. Then learning defense techniques and practicing them on each other. Then there's usually some time for individual forms practice, while the senior students rotate around and help people. Then a 10 minute seated meditation. Then 15min or so discussion on whatever book we're currently working our way through.

In the intermediate class, we warm up by doing all the forms that everyone knows. There are currently about a half dozen forms that the whole intermediate class knows. Then there may be drills- more advanced and complex drills than are done in the basic class. Then self-defense techniques- again, harder stuff than we do on Thursdays. We often have a form that we are in the process of learning in the Tuesday class. Any testing usually happens in this class as well.

There's an informal Saturday practice that a senior student offers, where we can get help with our individual forms or whatever else we want to work on. There is almost no sparring in the formal classes, so I often ask for some of that on Saturdays.

Once you get past the first five or six basic forms that most beginners are taught, you theoretically can start getting at least some more specialized material from a senior student during the Thursday forms practice time, or (if you're lucky) you can get time at some point with one of the masters. Our two most senior students know a cubic buttload of forms... many from the now-defunct advanced class; others from the retreats that only masters, black sashes, and a couple of very advanced (and very lucky- sigh) students get to go to. The bulk of the intermediate students know two or three forms- supposedly geared toward their unique talents- that the rest don't know.

Unfortunately for me, I joined around the same time that a half dozen other people joined, and we all stuck with it and worked hard, so we're all at a similar level. I think having that many people at the same level has made the progressional flow difficult. I don't think we are getting the same amount of individual instruction and attention as the two most senior students were getting when THEY were at this level. The problem is, it's going to be difficult for us to get any further WITHOUT that individual instruction, so I'm hoping we aren't going to find ourselves all stalled here in a bottleneck forever. I think it's also inhibiting our being invited to some of these high-ranking retreats.... it's not a big deal for a master to bring along one or two favored students, but they can't really show up with six or eight in tow. :(

In my "supplemental" class, there are only 3 of us, and the curriculum depends on who shows up. It is pretty informal, and we can ask to work on whatever we want to work on. But unless you are the only student who showed up that day, it needs to be something that everyone can work on. (There are two of us who are "intermediate" and one beginner.) If no one has a preference, the teacher picks something to work on- usually various self defense techniques, or random pieces out of forms followed by applications practice of same.

I would be ripping my hair out about now if I didn't have the supplemental class, because when I'm the only one there, this is the only chance I'm getting to work on more specialized advanced material. I'm dying for some more specialized material.

[GreenCloudCLF]

We've got a "basic" class on Thursdays and an "intermediate" class on Tuesdays. You have to get through the first two student levels to get invited to the intermediate class. There used to be an "advanced" class too, but to my disappointment this one seemed to have evaporated shortly before I would have qualified to be invited to it. :(

In the basic class, we usually do 40-60 min of hand technique drills, kick drills, and other drills. Then learning defense techniques and practicing them on each other. Then there's usually some time for individual forms practice, while the senior students rotate around and help people. Then a 10 minute seated meditation. Then 15min or so discussion on whatever book we're currently working our way through.

In the intermediate class, we warm up by doing all the forms that everyone knows. There are currently about a half dozen forms that the whole intermediate class knows. Then there may be drills- more advanced and complex drills than are done in the basic class. Then self-defense techniques- again, harder stuff than we do on Thursdays. We often have a form that we are in the progress of learning in the Tuesday class. Any testing usually happens in this class as well.

There's an informal Saturday practice that a senior student offers, where we can get help with our individual forms or whatever else we want to work on. There is almost no sparring in the formal classes, so I often ask for some of that on Saturdays.

Once you get past the first five or six basic forms that most beginners are taught, you theoretically can start getting at least some more specialized material from a senior student during the Thursday forms practice time, or (if you're lucky) you can get time at some point with one of the masters. Our two most senior students know a cubic buttload of forms... many from the now-defunct advanced class; others from the retreats that only masters, black sashes, and a couple of very advanced (and very lucky- sigh) students get to go to. The bulk of the intermediate students know two or three forms- supposedly geared toward their unique talents- that the rest don't know.

Unfortunately for me, I joined around the same time that a half dozen other people joined, and we all stuck with it and worked hard, so we're all at a similar level. I think having that many people at the same level has made the progressional flow difficult. I don't think we are getting the same amount of individual instruction and attention as the two most senior students were getting when THEY were at this level. The problem is, it's going to be difficult for us to get any further WITHOUT that individual instruction, so I'm hoping we aren't going to find ourselves all stalled here in a bottleneck forever.

In my "supplemental" class, there are only 3 of us, and the curriculum depends on who shows up. It is pretty informal, and we can ask to work on whatever we want to work on. But unless you are the only student who showed up that day, it needs to be something that everyone can work on. (There are two of us who are "intermediate" and one beginner.) If no one has a preference, the teacher picks something to work on- usually various self defense techniques, or random pieces out of forms followed by applications practice of same.

I would be ripping my hair out about now if I didn't have the supplemental class, because when I'm the only one there, this is the only chance I'm getting to work on more specialized advanced material. I'm dying for some more specialized material.

How many forms are taught in your style?

[BoulderDawg]

Unfortunately for me, I joined around the same time that a half dozen other people joined, and we all stuck with it and worked hard, so we're all at a similar level. I think having that many people at the same level has made the progressional flow difficult. I don't think we are getting the same amount of individual instruction and attention as the two most senior students were getting when THEY were at this level. The problem is, it's going to be difficult for us to get any further WITHOUT that individual instruction, so I'm hoping we aren't going to find ourselves all stalled here in a bottleneck forever. I think it's also inhibiting our being invited to some of these retreats.... it's not a big deal for a master to bring along one or two favored students, but they can't really show up with six or eight in tow. :-(

I'm surprised you see this as a negative. When I came up there was a group of about 5-6 students that all joined within a month of each other. We all kinda bonded together and helped each other out. Of course, as it goes in almost all schools, that was 3 years ago and now there are only 2 of us left.

[Taryn P.]

How many forms are taught in your style?

Gawds, there must be a zillion!!!! :eek:

There is no set number or list of forms for level advancements. As I said, there are about a half dozen that every beginning student is taught. Then it theoretically starts to branch out more. To get to 4th level student, you have to know at least one form from each of the 5 animal styles. After that, theoretically you have determined what is "your" style, and you concentrate more in that area. You do have to be reasonably competant in all 5 (and basic wing chun as well) to get to black sash, although a goodly portion of that test will usually be geared toward material from your specific style.

The teacher for my "supplemental" class is a dragon stylist who apparently was markedly inept at crane as a student... when it came time for him to start working on black sash requirements, the masters assigned him almost all crane stuff! He was not a happy camper, but by the time he got through it, he d@mn well knew his crane- backwards, forwards and up the middle. :p

Some of the forms are not even from our discipline. Most of us have previous experience in other martial arts, and when you test, you have to perform not only forms from our class but also forms from your other MA. To get to black sash, you have to study a minimum of six months in another (non Chinese) MA.

The Big Cheese in our org knows lord-only-knows-how-many forms; many of which he hasn't taught to ANYONE.

Unfortunately, the only master who specializes in my style lives out of state. :( Last summer he was in town for a couple of months teaching for a semester at a local university, and I was really looking forward to leeching onto him and digging into some specialized material in a serious way this summer. But I just found out he's not coming this year, and I'm so disappointed I could just weep.

[Taryn P.]

I'm surprised you see this as a negative. When I came up there was a group of about 5-6 students that all joined within a month of each other. We all kinda bonded together and helped each other out. Of course, as it goes in almost all schools, that was 3 years ago and now there are only 2 of us left.

Of course that's a good thing in many ways, but I can't help feeling that the progressional flow- particularly as regards being able to score some one on one time with the masters- would be working a bit better if we didn't have a big gang of us all at the same level. I just seem to recall the two most senior students getting a lot more attention when they were at the point that *we* are now. They got a lot of one-on-one training time, and they are really, dizzyingly good. I will need to feel in my heart that I am also that good before testing for any further level advancements. And to get to that point, I'm gonna _need_ some serious quality face time with the masters.