Parallel or Cross Arm Chi Sao

[Phil Redmond]

In TWC and some other lineages there is Cross and parallel arm chi sao. Does anyone else use that method of training?

[Yoshiyahu]

In TWC and some other lineages there is Cross and parallel arm chi sao. Does anyone else use that method of training?

Are you speaking of one hand Chi Sau being cross handed?

[Phil Redmond]

Are you speaking of one hand Chi Sau being cross handed?
No, dan chi sao is parallel not cross arm. There are some very basic example of cross arm chi sao here:
http://www.wingchunkwoon.com/woodchi.asp#chi
I have no clips of parallel chi sao right now.

[Yoshiyahu]

No, dan chi sao is parallel not cross arm. Ther are some vey basic example of cross arm chi sao here:
http://www.wingchunkwoon.com/woodchi.asp#chi
I have no clips of parallel chi sao right now.

Does anyone one do dan chi sau cross hand too?

[Phil Redmond]

Does anyone one do dan chi sau cross hand too?
In my 39 years in WC I've never seen it. But I've also learned to never say what WC has or doesn't have.

[Yoshiyahu]

So cross hand techniques you see are only done with two handed chi sau?


In my 39 years in WC I've never seen it. But I've also learned to never say what WC has or doesn't have.

[Phil Redmond]

So cross hand techniques you see are only done with two handed chi sau?

No, cross arm and parallel chi sao uses only one arm. If you look at clips 4 and 6 here
You'll see what I mean:
http://www.wingchunkwoon.com/woodchi.asp#chi
You can also see it here at about 1:17:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xx34FlEDtJ4&feature=PlayList&p=9A7326A438A91F25&playnext=1&index=9

[stonecrusher69]

In TWC and some other lineages there is Cross and parallel arm chi sao. Does anyone else use that method of training?

Sure, I use Cross hands Chi sao and sparring a lot. I think a student should get good with one hand first then move on to double hand. Other wise you might use two hands to make up for one.

[stonecrusher69]

forgot to mention with the one hand chi sao we also practice it like the Dan Chi ( parellel) but it's free flowing there is no pattern. You can do what you want.

[sanjuro_ronin]

No, dan chi sao is parallel not cross arm. There are some very basic example of cross arm chi sao here:
http://www.wingchunkwoon.com/woodchi.asp#chi
I have no clips of parallel chi sao right now.

I always found it much better to work footwork than "regualr" Chi sao, but maybe that was just me.
I never liked starting off in the typical chi sao position, never felt natural no matter how I did it.
But one handed and cross always felt more "applicable".

[Ultimatewingchun]

"I always found it much better to work footwork than 'regular' chi sao, but maybe that was just me.
I never liked starting off in the typical chi sao position, never felt natural no matter how I did it.
But one handed and cross always felt more 'applicable'......" (Paul/sanjuro)


***PUT THIS TOGETHER with Joy's post#72 on the "Full Disclosure" thread and you have pretty much the whole picture.

Double arm chi sao develops mainly certain attributes, principles, and techniques...

but once you take that and put in into parallel arm and cross arm "chi sao" - you're getting closer to reality sparring/fighting.

AND WITHOUT FOLLOWING WITH ALL-OUT SPARRING...the whole thing is a big waste of time. :eek: ;)

[sanjuro_ronin]

And jumping into sparring without that "core" is no good either.
yes you will develop some skill and fighting ability, but it won't be based on technique as much as sheer physical ability.
Then again if you don't spar, you'll just have technique without the ability to apply.

[Vajramusti]

Sure I do cross arm chi sao using our structure and footwork and they are all different apparently from what Phil has on his site- which is not a problem for me.
joy chaudhuri

[Ultimatewingchun]

Paul,

HOLY 5HIT !!! :eek:

You mean that combining wing chun basic training structures (forms, various chi sao drills, wooden dummy, etc.)...

with all-out sparring....

IS A GOOD THING ???!!! :cool:



:D:D:D

[sanjuro_ronin]

Paul,

HOLY 5HIT !!! :eek:

You mean that combining wing chun basic training structures (forms, various chi sao drills, wooden dummy, etc.)...

with all-out sparring....

IS A GOOD THING ???!!! :cool:



:D:D:D

Hey, keep it quite, only the chinese are suppose to know these ancient TCMA secrets !!

[CFT]

Hey, keep it quite, only the chinese are suppose to know these ancient TCMA secrets !!Good job there are plenty of non-Chinese who know the modern TCMA non-secrets and are willing to share with everyone! Keep up the good work gentlemen.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Sure I do cross arm chi sao using our structure and footwork and they are all different apparently from what Phil has on his site- which is not a problem for me.
joy chaudhuri

I think that differences should be celebrated.
My MA will never be yours not yours, mine, and that is a good thing.
We are different, different body types, mental attitudes, personalites and all these things and more, effect our MA and as such, trickle down to our students and training partners.
Our MA becomes, to a certain extent, theirs and then they will "change" it too and rightly so.
What a boring world we would be in if everyone was a robotic imitation of their teacher/founder.

[Phil Redmond]

I think that differences should be celebrated.
My MA will never be yours not yours, mine, and that is a good thing.
We are different, different body types, mental attitudes, personalites and all these things and more, effect our MA and as such, trickle down to our students and training partners.
Our MA becomes, to a certain extent, theirs and then they will "change" it too and rightly so.
What a boring world we would be in if everyone was a robotic imitation of their teacher/founder.
Exactly, no two boxers look alike, no two MMA fighters look alike, no two athletes even in the same sport look alike.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Exactly, no two boxers look alike, no two MMA fighters look alike, no two athletes even in the same sport look alike.

As long as the principles and concepts are there, it will always be WC, no matter what it looks like.
That said, and I have been one of the vocal ones on this matter, if it doesn't look like anythign you do in training ( the application in a full contact situation), what are you training?

[t_niehoff]

As long as the principles and concepts are there, it will always be WC, no matter what it looks like.
That said, and I have been one of the vocal ones on this matter, if it doesn't look like anythign you do in training ( the application in a full contact situation), what are you training?

How do we ever know if the concepts or principles of WCK "are there"? In my view, it is WCK if you are using the tools (physical movements) of WCK -- the movements in the forms and exercises -- in your fighting. If you are not using the tools of WCK, then you aren't "doing WCK" and so can't be using the concepts and/or principles of WCK. The tools and principles/concepts of WCK are two sides of the same coin; you can't have one without the other. So if your tools aren't working, your concepts/principles aren't working.

[Ultimatewingchun]

Yes, this is so true, Terence.

But then again, you also need to thoroughly know what those concepts, principles, tools, techniques, and strategies are....

in order to make a judgment (an informed one, not a guess)....as to what one is looking at - and if it is indeed someone fighting/using wing chun.

Too often, people think they know - but they don't.

And then they judge away...
and judge away...................
and judge away...................
and judge away...................

:confused:


:) ;) :p

[t_niehoff]

Yes, this is so true, Terence.

But then again, you also need to thoroughly know what those concepts, principles, tools, techniques, and strategies are....

in order to make a judgment (an informed one, not a guess)....as to what one is looking at - and if it is indeed someone fighting/using wing chun.

Too often, people think they know - but they don't.

And then they judge away...
and judge away...................
and judge away...................
and judge away...................

:confused:


:) ;) :p

I think it is a fairly easy thing to see -- just as it is an easy thing to see whether someone is using their boxing tools or their muay thai tools. The WCK tools are those actions/movements we see in the WCK forms and exercises. We could say that the WCK curriculum (forms and exercises) gives you a toolbelt (the movements/actions). How well you can use (in fighting) those things in your toolbelt is how good your WCK is. As far as "judging" goes, that only takes place in the fight.

[Yoshiyahu]

Well to me from what your saying the Tools are pretty much the basics of WC.

Is the Bloke using Tan Sau,Fok Sau and Bong Sau.

Does he use forward pressure. What about forward advancing stance and Yee Gee Kim Yeung Ma.


Does he deflect the attacks. Does he use the Sun fist. etc etc?


Would you say this what you mean?



I think it is a fairly easy thing to see -- just as it is an easy thing to see whether someone is using their boxing tools or their muay thai tools. The WCK tools are those actions/movements we see in the WCK forms and exercises. We could say that the WCK curriculum (forms and exercises) gives you a toolbelt (the movements/actions). How well you can use (in fighting) those things in your toolbelt is how good your WCK is. As far as "judging" goes, that only takes place in the fight.

[Phil Redmond]

Here are some cross arm and parallel arm chi sao drills.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8fyc_OAq58