Chi Cultivation in WC

[Yoshiyahu]

Do you guys practice Chi Gung and Chi Cultivation in your Wing Chun Systems?

Also do you believe Chi cultivation helps your Wing Chun if so how?

[Shadow_warrior8]

Yahu, there is a whole thread with many pages on this topic.

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52774

Btw, Yahu means Crow Lake and yeah its In Guangzhou.

But any chance you are Jewish? Haha....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josiah

[Yoshiyahu]

Okay. AS for that thread. I have a different curiosity. Plus i was not a member during that time...



Anyway concerning Yahu...depending on what language your speaking. In hebrew Yahu is the shorten form of Yahuwah(Yahweh)


As for Jewish. Those are not the original Descendants of Abraham Yitshaq and Yaaqob. The Jews from my studies are imposters an converts who stole the covenant of hertiage of the true Hebrews who scattered to four corners of the earth by the Gentiles.

But message me I can tell you more if you like. In other words I would never call my self a jew.




Yahu, there is a whole thread with many pages on this topic. There is not need to start a new thread and waste bandwidth

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52774

Btw, Yahu means Crow Lake and yeah its In Guangzhou.

But any chance you are Jewish? Haha....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josiah

[Hendrik]

Before Chi Cultivation could be discuss.

Here are the basics:



============================

Yin Yang is about action (physical/mental) balancing and characterization.

Qi is about energy accumulation and its dynamic flow.

Shen Yee (awareness/intention) is about mind/qi/ physical system guiding.

Sum is refer to thoughts or the buddha nature / the awareness.



Kang Rou is about the catagorization of action characteristics.

Jin is about focus directed dynamic force vector.

Lik is about scala static force.

Huit (as in Dim Huit or pressure point striking ) is the energy center point where energy accumulate, regulate, relay, or sourcing.

Mak (as in Dim Mak . eventhougth Dim Mak is not correct, it has to be INTERCEPT the MAK not Dim Mak) is energy flow path between energy center.

Mo Duk is the code of behavior of TCMA to serve humanity and oneself.

======================

In Ancient China practice, such as the one in Shao Lin or Emei or Wudang or TaiJi, MODUK will be present before any of the Technology. That is to make certain the technology is given to the proper person for everything has consequence or Karma. and it is big responsibility toward the wellness of the society.


Karma means dynamic action and within this dynamic action the Law of cause and effect and the Law of attraction converns. what one gives out one get back.

==========================



There is no myth but precise and consice Technology terms refer to specific things. The issue with today's defending and critics are :

1, some who practice it doesnt have a clear complete understanding of the technological basic. thus, there is no result but all kinds of useless reasoning.

2, some critics because of critics without even know what is what. Some even keep thinking Qi Ball blast similar to those shown in the movie Street Figther without knowing those are MOVIES.

3, by the name of Scientific with the confusion of #1, #2 above; playing defense and attacking/critics for one's own favorietism or bias.




Until one clearly knows what is what one will not know the pro and con. Until one clearly knows what is what what to discuss beside all type of speculation which lead to no where.

But most doesnt seem interested to find out what is what but keep defend for defend shake, argue for argue shake, and critic for critic shake. scientific for scientific shake.

Some even ridiculusly thinking they can learn these stuffs from forum disccusion, and if they are not giving the "secret" they will attack those who they demand the "secret" from. one will see plenty of these type of people when ask to BaiSi to learn something.
The term Bai Si triggle out thier big ego and wanting something for free and fantasy.


Face it. to just do the first baby step on Qi cultivation, To evoke Zhen Qi or accumulate Qi it needs at least 3 weeks or more of daily 1 hours practice, no sex, no wine, living properly. with a step to step instruction and watched over by qualify experience sifu.

If one doesnt even have this basic forget about Qi, forget about Scientific. any one who can evoke their Qi have no fear on any scientific test. because at that point it is only a matter of how huge or little the effect. it is no longer there is Qi or no Qi. issue. That is a fact which can be verified. But if one doesnt have it, even with all the data from the biofeedback instruments one have no clue what is what.

[Yoshiyahu]

whats the benefits of chi cultivation?

[Hendrik]

whats the benefits of chi cultivation?


Another degree of freedom to manage oneself.

[Yoshiyahu]

please explain in more detail?



Another degree of freedom to manage oneself.

[Hendrik]

please explain in more detail?



knowing Qi is like knowing the state of fuel tank and fuel flow/ ignition/ and engine powering in the car.

[Edmund]

whats the benefits of chi cultivation?

I think as thread starter you should close this thread down and continue on the other one with almost exactly the same title. You can copy other relevant posts over beforehand.

No point having all the discussions split over two threads.
Honestly it's a bit bad form to start another thread on exactly the same topic as a relatively current thread. Take a browse of recent thread titles before you start a new one. You could have posted on the other one.

[Yoshiyahu]

I think as thread starter you should close this thread down and continue on the other one with almost exactly the same title. You can copy other relevant posts over beforehand.

No point having all the discussions split over two threads.
Honestly it's a bit bad form to start another thread on exactly the same topic as a relatively current thread. Take a browse of recent thread titles before you start a new one. You could have posted on the other one.

You are right...i just noticed that myself?

wow...

[Shadow_warrior8]

Before Chi Cultivation could be discuss.

Here are the basics:



============================

Yin Yang is about action (physical/mental) balancing and characterization.

Qi is about energy accumulation and its dynamic flow.

Shen Yee (awareness/intention) is about mind/qi/ physical system guiding.

Sum is refer to thoughts or the buddha nature / the awareness.



Kang Rou is about the catagorization of action characteristics.

Jin is about focus directed dynamic force vector.

Lik is about scala static force.

Huit (as in Dim Huit or pressure point striking ) is the energy center point where energy accumulate, regulate, relay, or sourcing.

Mak (as in Dim Mak . eventhougth Dim Mak is not correct, it has to be INTERCEPT the MAK not Dim Mak) is energy flow path between energy center.

Mo Duk is the code of behavior of TCMA to serve humanity and oneself.

======================

In Ancient China practice, such as the one in Shao Lin or Emei or Wudang or TaiJi, MODUK will be present before any of the Technology. That is to make certain the technology is given to the proper person for everything has consequence or Karma. and it is big responsibility toward the wellness of the society.


Karma means dynamic action and within this dynamic action the Law of cause and effect and the Law of attraction converns. what one gives out one get back.

==========================



There is no myth but precise and consice Technology terms refer to specific things. The issue with today's defending and critics are :

1, some who practice it doesnt have a clear complete understanding of the technological basic. thus, there is no result but all kinds of useless reasoning.

2, some critics because of critics without even know what is what. Some even keep thinking Qi Ball blast similar to those shown in the movie Street Figther without knowing those are MOVIES.

3, by the name of Scientific with the confusion of #1, #2 above; playing defense and attacking/critics for one's own favorietism or bias.




Until one clearly knows what is what one will not know the pro and con. Until one clearly knows what is what what to discuss beside all type of speculation which lead to no where.

But most doesnt seem interested to find out what is what but keep defend for defend shake, argue for argue shake, and critic for critic shake. scientific for scientific shake.

Some even ridiculusly thinking they can learn these stuffs from forum disccusion, and if they are not giving the "secret" they will attack those who they demand the "secret" from. one will see plenty of these type of people when ask to BaiSi to learn something.
The term Bai Si triggle out thier big ego and wanting something for free and fantasy.


Face it. to just do the first baby step on Qi cultivation, To evoke Zhen Qi or accumulate Qi it needs at least 3 weeks or more of daily 1 hours practice, no sex, no wine, living properly. with a step to step instruction and watched over by qualify experience sifu.

If one doesnt even have this basic forget about Qi, forget about Scientific. any one who can evoke their Qi have no fear on any scientific test. because at that point it is only a matter of how huge or little the effect. it is no longer there is Qi or no Qi. issue. That is a fact which can be verified. But if one doesnt have it, even with all the data from the biofeedback instruments one have no clue what is what.

Senior Hendrik, these are the pillars, nothing I can add

Grateful :)

[Shadow_warrior8]

I think as thread starter you should close this thread down and continue on the other one with almost exactly the same title. You can copy other relevant posts over beforehand.

No point having all the discussions split over two threads.
Honestly it's a bit bad form to start another thread on exactly the same topic as a relatively current thread. Take a browse of recent thread titles before you start a new one. You could have posted on the other one.

Yeah Yoshi Mate
, thought I told you in the 2nd post in this thread. heh heh.....:D
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52774

[Yoshiyahu]

I must have slipped it.


Also if its a thread on another page...I may have not noticed it when I first came on. I don't really look at the second page...




Yeah Yoshi Mate
, thought I told you in the 2nd post in this thread. heh heh.....:D
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52774

so what techniques or training do you guys do to Cultivate Chi?

What can you do with Chi? Is there a special way to use Chi when fighting?

[Hendrik]

Is there a special way to use Chi when fighting?



Sure, if you have cultivate in Chi you end fighting with love.

[Yoshiyahu]

Sure, if you have cultivate in Chi you end fighting with love.

What if your attacker hates life and hates you?

An your love enrages him to axe kick you in the face.

[Violent Designs]

What if your attacker hates life and hates you?

An your love enrages him to axe kick you in the face.

Or better, you're a girl and get jumped by 8 guys that proceed to gang-rape you brutally.

i guess u can call it making love . . . technically? :/

[Yoshiyahu]

I call it violent love making....

or maybe hateful passion....

ha ha...



Or better, you're a girl and get jumped by 8 guys that proceed to gang-rape you brutally.

i guess u can call it making love . . . technically? :/

[Violent Designs]

I call it violent love making....

or maybe hateful passion....

ha ha...

Dam.n straight.

[Hendrik]

What if your attacker hates life and hates you?

An your love enrages him to axe kick you in the face.



What if the sky fall down?


To many if....


well, the world is a wonderfull place. what one give out one get back.


PS.
Could you please share to us about yourself?

[Yoshiyahu]

Please tell me what you wanna know...I would be happy to share?




What if the sky fall down?


To many if....


well, the world is a wonderfull place. what one give out one get back.


PS.
Could you please share to us about yourself?

[Hendrik]

Please tell me what you wanna know...I would be happy to share?


feel free to Share with us anything you feel great about WCK or your training.


Best Regards

[Violent Designs]

What if the sky fall down?


To many if....


well, the world is a wonderfull place. what one give out one get back.


PS.
Could you please share to us about yourself?

Unfortunately reality hurts . . .

The sky "won't" fall down.

The world is indeed a wonderful place.

But that wouldn't stop people from trying to rob and kill you.

You can't fight a knifer with love, lol.

[anerlich]

What if your attacker hates life and hates you?


THis guy must have read too many of your KFO posts. I'm starting to sympathise with him.

[Hendrik]

Unfortunately reality hurts . . .

The sky "won't" fall down.

The world is indeed a wonderful place.

But that wouldn't stop people from trying to rob and kill you.

You can't fight a knifer with love, lol.




If that type of world is what you like to live in sure.

1,
In ancient China, there is a story of a person always try to prepare if the sky fall down.

2,
In ancient China, there is also a story of a mother who move to live in different place to give her son a good education and be with the proper neighborhood, to grow up become a proper person.


3,
as for fighting, face it, dis regard how or what people said Shao Lin is Anti-Qing and all the heroic stories about anti-qing. or Shao Lin develop the best martial art to kill the qing......etc

Qing Doesnt goes away. and Shao Lin got burn down to ground and those from Shao lin have to fleet.

But, due to the influence of a few Buddhist monk's loving kindness toward the first 2 emperors of Qing Dynasty, Han or the Chinese get a better life.



what is your reality? your own choice.

want to be as good figther as those anti Qing Shao Lin ? your own choice.

[Violent Designs]

你别把我当作傻逼。我跟他们不一样。

一个人没法活在古老的中国里。

一个人要活在现实之中。

老骨头都死了。

[Hendrik]

你别把我当作傻逼。我跟他们不一样。

一个人没法活在古老的中国里。

一个人要活在现实之中。

老骨头都死了。








1, since this is an english forum. Here I do a brief translation of your post so others can follow. if you have better translation, please feel free to make correction.

Translation:

You dont take me as a fool.
I am different then them.
One cannot live in ancient China.
One have to live in reality.
Those old bone have dead.




2, You have the choice to select your reality. free will and free country. I am just relaying what is the practice of the Top martial artists in China, so dont shoot me.

I brought this up so that those who is interested can have a factual view on what is happening. I take everyone equally with respect.

A few days ago some in this WCK forum ask about ancient Chinese writing language. The following is a sample of the Classical Chinese writing.





3, The following are the practice of present day famous Chinese martial artist/ qigong/ TCM master: for example master Ma Li-Dang 马礼堂
http://baike.baidu.com/view/67463.htm


in cultivation of Qi


According to Master Ma Li-Dang,
孟子说：“我善养吾浩然之气”，还告诉人们养气的方法是“求放心”，“不动心”，“勿助长”。 .... 练养气功就是要求人们通过练功来培养这种真气。

Meng Tzu said " I am keen in growing my boundless Qi. and the method of growing and cultivating are " quiet the mind, never force it to grow"...
The kung fu of cultivating Qi is growing this type of Zhen Qi via training.




爱是生人本，憨为处世根。
心中无怨恶，学道见天心。

Master Ma Li Dang Said:

Love is the foundation of human
straight and honest is the root of how to deal with others in the world.
No Hate within the heart,
Leaning Dao is to know the heart of heaven.



note:

仁者無敵 ：孟子的人生哲學
“仁人無敵于天下”，有了這樣的修養和“浩然之氣”，就能夠無所畏懼。

The life philosophy of Meng Tzu: Those with Loving Kindness is un defeatable.

Meng Tzu said, those who is loving kindness in un defeatable, with this type of Loving kindness cultivation and boundless Qi, one will be able to attain fearless.



The movie IpMan the legend also shared this philosophy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7OGK-pIMkw&feature=related


Be it from Master Ma Li-dang to Ip Man the legend, Hsing Yi to WCK, same Chinese philosophy.

For those who watches Ip Man the legend and wonder where is the philosophy is based --- Meng Tzu's “仁人無敵于天下” Those with Loving Kindness is un defeatable.


we like it or not that is the fact.

[Violent Designs]

ok, I use English for this.

Of course, I love my country and history more than anything. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Chinese arts are for me, my life. They are the most important things for me.

But a lot of these old "masters" I think . . . . do not know what the **** they are talking about.

Supposedly, very powerful fighters right?

OK, the ones 100, even 60 years ago, we can only go by stories. No video cameras, that is fine.

But today, we can document everything. If your chi is powerful, and you are excellent fighter, show us maybe?

As a Chinese you should know best.

Saving face, sometimes, is more important than telling truth.

In this case, it is fighting ability.

[SimonM]

Cultivate Qi.

Plant a tree.

[Hendrik]

Of course, I love my country and history more than anything. I wouldn't have it any other way. Chinese arts are for me, my life. They are the most important things for me. ------


Ok, that is admirable.






But a lot of these old "masters" I think . . . . do not know what the **** they are talking about. ----------


There are different type of people in the world. There are good one there are con man.

" A lot" is relative depend on who have you expose to. You are absolutely correct if most of who you expose to are as you mention.

However, that cant represent ALL.




NOw, saying the above, Could you please share with us who you are, what is your style? how long you have studied TCMA, Who is your sifu or sifus? So that way we could understand the angle you look at the issue.





Supposedly, very powerful fighters right?
OK, the ones 100, even 60 years ago, we can only go by stories. No video cameras, that is fine. But today, we can document everything. -------


In different era people document things differently.









If your chi is powerful, and you are excellent fighter, show us maybe? --------



This topic is on Chi Cultivation in WC/TCMA not about me.


I am not qualified to be a representator of TCMA, But master like Ma Li-Dang or Master Wang Pei Shen are.

\
Take Master Ma Li-Dang or Master Wang Pei Shen for example if you are in Beijing you will know who they are and thier capability. They just passed away a decade ago and there are lots of documentary of them.

http://www.plumpub.com/info/Bios/bio_wangpeisheng.htm









As a Chinese you should know best.
Saving face, sometimes, is more important than telling truth.
In this case, it is fighting ability. ---------

You certainly have your points.


For me,

1, it is not about Chinese or non chinese. It is about to relay what TCMA and Qi cultivation FACTs so those who is interested could trace what is going on.


2, The Truth of TCMA has many faces, instead of just as what you state above "FIGTHING ABILITY".




As From Shao lin, it said,


少林寺习武戒约


　　1.习此技术者，以强健体魄为要旨，宜朝夕行事，不可随意作辏
　　2.宜入佛门，悲怜为怀，纵于技术精娴，只可习以自卫，切戒逞气血之私，好勇斗狠，犯者与 违反朝规同罪 。
　　3.平日对待师长，宜敬谨将事，勿得有违抗及傲慢之行为。
　　4.对待后辈，须和顺、温良、诚信，孝双亲，不得恃强凌弱，任意妄为。
　　5.游行之时，如与俗家相遇，宜以忍辱救世为主旨，不可轻恃技术而逞强。
　　6.凡属少林师法，不可逞愤相较，但偶而遭遇，未知来路，须先以左手作掌上与眉齐，如系同 派则以右掌照 式答之，则彼此相知，当互为援助，以示同道之谊。
　　7.饮酒食肉为佛门之大戒，宜敬谨遵守，盖酒能夺志，肉可昏神也。
　　8.女色男风犯之必遭天谴，亦为佛门之所难容，凡吾宗门弟子，必严守戒规，勿毫违矣。
　　9.凡俗家弟子，不可轻以技术相授，以免危害于世，违佛氏之宗旨。如深知其人确性情纯良， 而又无强悍暴 狠之行，始可传之。但饮酒淫欲之戒须使其人誓为谨守，勿得以一时之兴，而逞强斗狠，此禅宗之第 一要义，幸勿 轻忽视之也。
　　10.戒恃强争胜之心，及贪得自夸之习，世之以此自丧其身而兼流毒于人者，不知凡几。盖以 技击术之于人 ，其关系至为紧要；或炫技于一时，或凌弱逞暴而生意外之波澜，为禅门之败类，贻羞当世，取祸俄 顷，是岂先师 创立此术之本意也乎！凡在后学者宜切记之。




3, How can one rate fighting ability?

From my limited experience studying different type of art from Judo to Kyokusin to WC to......
Even in the same class by the same teachers there are better and not that good fighter.
And Sometimes I do good and Sometimes I do poorly.



However, saying that, I heard that , in TCMA one can clearly rate the preparation or conditioning for combat.


IE: in the old ancient term, such as

Does one's training/conditioning activate all of 8 special medirians? If one's training dont have the complete activation one knows one couldnt even passed the basic physical manual ability.


One of the significant of Qi cultivation is to activate all the 8 special medirians. In the modern and surface sense, activate all the 8 speical medirians means a better handling /manualing capability of the different part of physical body for different motion.

Qi is use here as an indicator to lead one to have a smooth flow in these medirians and the physical result is one be able to have a better agile/handling on their body.


if the opponent is very strong in physical and one only have train two medirians, forget about the fight. One have already lost.







are you a TCMA practitioner? if not then the question is not for you. If yes, then why do you do those form or set? if you are WCner since this is a WC forum, then what benifit do you get with your SLT/SNT? if there is no benifit for your FIGHTING purpose, why do you do it? if yes, then what is the purpose? what is the result?


Saying that, could you please shared with us, have you activate all of the 8 special medirians and related muscle in your body? if yes, then do you use Qi as a lead or sensor to full fill this? or you use other medium. Do you do it in a Kang way or Rou Way? it is external Kung or Internal Kung?




See, the bottom line is not about being a Chinese or not, Not to defend, and not to offend, BUT to work to reveal what is what in a common sense.

as you said, "
As a Chinese you should know best.
Saving face, sometimes, is more important than telling truth."


Sure, let's investigate what is the truth instead of saving face.
Let's report what is what with facts instead of via "I THINK" for " I THINK" doesnt mean a THING.

and

Loving Kindness doesnt mean one ignore the training of the combat capability or one doesnt have high skill. It only means one choose to use one's skill in a loving kindness way.


Do I know Qi exist and could be evoked? yes. Do I believe Qi is everything and it is similar to those shown in Street Fighter the movie? NOPE!

Do I believe in standing there doing SLT/SNT and fantasy somedays one can be the best fighter like Bruce Lee? Nope.

Do I believe doing SLT/SNT is a powerfull training? Yes. But you need to know the proper way.

[Hendrik]

so, does SLT/SNT open the 8 special channel?
Yes, according to the ancient teaching and also there is how the Yin and Yang related in a big way. and all the yin and yang means something physical there. nothing fantasy.

But then,


The Chinese ancestors rather one open one's loving kindness heart first.

Thus, they call the art Wing Chun. Praise the Spring. Heart is analogy as Ground in ancient Chinese. At Spring time Ground is lively and promote grow.


If the Chinese ancestors believe only in KILL KILL and Fight Fight and nothing else.

then, they might as well call it Wing Chao or Praise the Fall. For Fall in China is the time for EXECUTION.

But the Ancestor doesnt call it Wing Chao.


So, what do one practice? Wing Chun or the Wing Chao which one created based on one's mindset which is no longer Wing Chun in the traditional Chinese ancestors way.


It is a free world, everyone believe in what they believe. and everyting is ok because everyone choose the consequence of their action.



and

finally,


孟子说：“我善养吾浩然之气”，还告诉人们养气的方法是“求放心”，“不动心”，“勿助长”。 .... 练养气功就是要求人们通过练功来培养这种真气。

is the way to cultivate Qi.

The method 求放心”，“不动心”，“勿助长” in the western sense is LET GO (the Mind) LET GOD (take care of it ).

There is no EAST or WEST. THe method is common because it is about human.

[Yoshiyahu]

So how does Chi Cultivation benefit your WC???


so, does SLT/SNT open the 8 special channel?
Yes, according to the ancient teaching and also there is how the Yin and Yang related in a big way. and all the yin and yang means something physical there. nothing fantasy.

But then,


The Chinese ancestors rather one open one's loving kindness heart first.

Thus, they call the art Wing Chun. Praise the Spring. Heart is analogy as Ground in ancient Chinese. At Spring time Ground is lively and promote grow.


If the Chinese ancestors believe only in KILL KILL and Fight Fight and nothing else.

then, they might as well call it Wing Chao or Praise the Fall. For Fall in China is the time for EXECUTION.

But the Ancestor doesnt call it Wing Chao.


So, what do one practice? Wing Chun or the Wing Chao which one created based on one's mindset which is no longer Wing Chun in the traditional Chinese ancestors way.


It is a free world, everyone believe in what they believe. and everyting is ok because everyone choose the consequence of their action.



and

finally,


孟子说：“我善养吾浩然之气”，还告诉人们养气的方法是“求放心”，“不动心”，“勿助长”。 .... 练养气功就是要求人们通过练功来培养这种真气。

is the way to cultivate Qi.

The method 求放心”，“不动心”，“勿助长” in the western sense is LET GO (the Mind) LET GOD (take care of it ).

There is no EAST or WEST. THe method is common because it is about human.

[Hendrik]

So how does Chi Cultivation benefit your WC???

What do you think? after reading so many posts I have post here recently?

[Violent Designs]

Hendrink you do not believe, then, the fundamental method meaning of Chinese martial art, is for killing?

Or maybe, just Wing Chun is not for killing?

[Hendrik]

Hendrink you do not believe, then, the fundamental method meaning of Chinese martial art, is for killing?

Or maybe, just Wing Chun is not for killing?

I have no idea what do you mean.

[Yoshiyahu]

So how does Chi Cultivation benefit your WC???

Many of your post are long winded and drawn out. I want to hear in three sentences or less what you feel the benefit of Chi Cultivation is for WC?

With out alot of philosopical mumbo jumbo?

[Hendrik]

Many of your post are long winded and drawn out. I want to hear in three sentences or less what you feel the benefit of Chi Cultivation is for WC?

With out alot of philosopical mumbo jumbo?



I once said the samething to my late sifu too.
that is when I dont realized it is me who doesnt see the answer.

[Yoshiyahu]

I once said the samething to my late sifu too.
that is when I dont realized it is me who doesnt see the answer.

So you dont realize it is you who doesnt see the answer?

Well seeing that you have been on both sides of spectrum...bring down to earth for the layman not interested in Buddhist Theology?

[Hendrik]

So you dont realize it is you who doesnt see the answer?

Well seeing that you have been on both sides of spectrum...bring down to earth for the layman not interested in Buddhist Theology?


There is nothing in Buddha's teaching which is not down to earth. That too I dont see a long time ago.

[Yoshiyahu]

There is nothing in Buddha's teaching which is not down to earth. That too I dont see a long time ago.

I awaiit for you to break it down in laymans terms?

[Hendrik]

I awaiit for you to break it down in laymans terms?


There is no laymans terms but old man terms.

[SimonM]

Do you guys practice Chi Gung and Chi Cultivation in your Wing Chun Systems?



I stand in horse stance screaming while fire erupts from my body, lightning crackles on my skin and my hair glows an ominous yellow colour.

Oh wait... your question was serious.

Qi means breath. First I breathe in. Then I breathe out. Repeat as necessary.

[Yoshiyahu]

Wow okay I am not crazy...i thought i was the only one who had fire erupting from his body with lighting shooting out the pores of my skin causing my hair to have a radiant glow like auroa. But I see others have experience this too. Great....wait a second were you kidding?



I stand in horse stance screaming while fire erupts from my body, lightning crackles on my skin and my hair glows an ominous yellow colour.

Oh wait... your question was serious.

Qi means breath. First I breathe in. Then I breathe out. Repeat as necessary.

[SimonM]

Tell me, do you frequently suffer from hallucinations?

[anerlich]

Wow okay I am not crazy

THe jury is still out.

[Violent Designs]

Tell me, do you frequently suffer from hallucinations?

Too much drugs for 16-year-old Yoshiyahu.

[Yoshiyahu]

Tell me, do you frequently suffer from hallucinations?


THe jury is still out.


Too much drugs for 16-year-old Yoshiyahu.

Actually I suffer from shared Halluciantions...Even Anerlich witness the fire shooting out of my body...didnt you anerlich! lol...

[SimonM]

****ing in the direction of a butane lighter does not count as "Chi".

[Hardwork108]

Yoshiyahu, Hendrik knows a lot. He might post in a way that is not easy for us to understand but believe me, he knows a lot. However the rest of the people here will only make ridiculous remarks regarding subjects such as the internals and other aspects of kung fu training. This just shows how clueless they are.

Maybe you and I should start a thread and call it "Flower cultivation in Wing Chun". We will sure get more knowledgable comments from the MMA-ists regarding this subject than what we saw regarding Chi cultivation....Lol.

Anyway, I am sure that many of them crosstrain in gardening because all good crosstrainers know that it is best to be prepared for the unknown scenario, such as being attacked by their neighbour's gardener in his BJJ kimono....LOL,lol.

Take care :)

[Yoshiyahu]

I got a better idea...lets go to the MMA section an make threads talking about MMA needs to learn WC and make a whole bunch of Wing Chun directed comments on the BJJ forums...An promote WC all over their section!!!


As for Hendrik....

"A Wiseman who has all the knowledge in the world but displays and teaches as an idiot will never be able to impart his knowledge to anyone."

"An Arrogant man though he be the wisest man in all the land will not be able to help anyone because the Arrogant and Prideful are hated by everyone."

"A Man who is incapable of explaining the most complex of matters in the common vernacular is really just a fool who hides behind high sounding Jargon to hide what idiot he really is!"

"A person who can not speak so the simple and unlearned can understand them is just babbling on, and really knows nothing."



Yoshiyahu, Hendrik knows a lot. He might post in a way that is not easy for us to understand but believe me, he knows a lot. However the rest of the people here will only make ridiculous remarks regarding subjects such as the internals and other aspects of kung fu training. This just shows how clueless they are.

Maybe you and I should start a thread and call it "Flower cultivation in Wing Chun". We will sure get more knowledgable comments from the MMA-ists regarding this subject than what we saw regarding Chi cultivation....Lol.

Anyway, I am sure that many of them crosstrain in gardening because all good crosstrainers know that it is best to be prepared for the unknown scenario, such as being attacked by their neighbour's gardener in his BJJ kimono....LOL,lol.

Take care :)

[Hendrik]

As for Hendrik....

"A Wiseman who has all the knowledge in the world but displays and teaches as an idiot will never be able to impart his knowledge to anyone."

"An Arrogant man though he be the wisest man in all the land will not be able to help anyone because the Arrogant and Prideful are hated by everyone."

"A Man who is incapable of explaining the most complex of matters in the common vernacular is really just a fool who hides behind high sounding Jargon to hide what idiot he really is!"

"A person who can not speak so the simple and unlearned can understand them is just babbling on, and really knows nothing."



Thank you and you certainly right.

[Yoshiyahu]

Thank you and you certainly right.

Besides Sil Lim Tao How does one Cultivate Chi in Wing Chun?

[Hendrik]

Besides Sil Lim Tao How does one Cultivate Chi in Wing Chun?



My opinion to you is go applied to Bai Si with GM Robert Chu's student Sifu Alan Orr, perhaps with a solid and strict sifu you could learn somethings.

[Lee Chiang Po]

Yoshiyahu, don't waste time trying to cultivate Chi. It is extremely difficult to explain what it is in the first place, and everyone seems to have their own idea as to what it really is. Please understand that it is not something that you can summon and use like a gun. If you cultivate your gung fu skills, you will be cultivating your Chi as well. Chi is your very life force. It can not be used by projection. That would be in the catagory of witchcraft or voodoo. What most people view as Chi is merely a smooth flowing skill set. Nothing more, and if someone attempts to tell you it is more than that, be skeptical.

[-木叶-]

ok, I use English for this.

Of course, I love my country and history more than anything. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Chinese arts are for me, my life. They are the most important things for me.

But a lot of these old "masters" I think . . . . do not know what the **** they are talking about.

Supposedly, very powerful fighters right?

OK, the ones 100, even 60 years ago, we can only go by stories. No video cameras, that is fine.

But today, we can document everything. If your chi is powerful, and you are excellent fighter, show us maybe?

As a Chinese you should know best.

Saving face, sometimes, is more important than telling truth.

In this case, it is fighting ability.

No offense, but how can one learn if one cannot show respect to our masters
and our ancient culture?

Perhaps one have not seek far enough, and stop halfway.

[Mr Punch]

As for Jewish. Those are not the original Descendants of Abraham Yitshaq and Yaaqob. The Jews from my studies are imposters an converts who stole the covenant of hertiage of the true Hebrews who scattered to four corners of the earth by the Gentiles.

But message me I can tell you more if you like. In other words I would never call my self a jew.How refreshing! A totally new kind of anti-semite.


I call it violent love making....

or maybe hateful passion....

ha ha...How clichéd! An old-school moron. Ha ha.

Qi?! Learn to be human before you attempt to be superhuman.


Off the topic of this train-wreck of a thread: 木叶 - what does your screen name mean? I know the meaning of the characters in Japanese ("tree" and "grant"/"come true"/"realize" as in wishes or dreams), but the compound has no meaning in Japanese. Does it have an actual meaning in Chinese? Is it your name? Just out of interest, thanks.

[Yoshiyahu]

My opinion to you is go applied to Bai Si with GM Robert Chu's student Sifu Alan Orr, perhaps with a solid and strict sifu you could learn somethings.

Well my Sifu has share Chi cultivation with me. He has taught me many facets. But I was simply asking you to share your opinions!


Yoshiyahu, don't waste time trying to cultivate Chi. It is extremely difficult to explain what it is in the first place, and everyone seems to have their own idea as to what it really is. Please understand that it is not something that you can summon and use like a gun. If you cultivate your gung fu skills, you will be cultivating your Chi as well. Chi is your very life force. It can not be used by projection. That would be in the catagory of witchcraft or voodoo. What most people view as Chi is merely a smooth flowing skill set. Nothing more, and if someone attempts to tell you it is more than that, be skeptical.


your absolutely correct. Its great to see others on here who believe in the truth...



How refreshing! A totally new kind of anti-semite.

Off the topic of this train-wreck of a thread: 木叶 - what does your screen name mean?


The European jews are not real semites? They are Yefet. The come the line of Yefet not Shem. True Semites are found in parts of northern africa and arabia. There are many different tribes of semites. But none of them are Caucasain. Become a religion doesn't make you a certain race. Sorry. If you become muslim you do not become semitic. Even though Arabs are semitic. A leopard can not change his spots. Anyway. The original hebrews were darker skin.


Yoshiyahu is a hebrew Name!

Yoshiyahu means = founded by Yahweh or Yahweh is My foundation!


Yahu = Yahuwah

Yoshi = foundation


Osh = http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?strongs=H787

Yah = http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?strongs=H3050


If you want me to share more with you please private message me!

[Hendrik]

Well my Sifu has share Chi cultivation with me. He has taught me many facets. But I was simply asking you to share your opinions!


What is the point of ask my opinion if you have make up your mind?

[Hendrik]

Originally Posted by Lee Chiang Po View Post
Yoshiyahu,
don't waste time trying to cultivate Chi.

It is extremely difficult to explain what it is in the first place, and everyone seems to have their own idea as to what it really is.

Please understand that it is not something that you can summon and use like a gun.

If you cultivate your gung fu skills, you will be cultivating your Chi as well.

Chi is your very life force.
It can not be used by projection.

That would be in the catagory of witchcraft or voodoo.

What most people view as Chi is merely a smooth flowing skill set. Nothing more, and if someone attempts to tell you it is more than that, be skeptical.




Yoshiyahu
Quote:
your absolutely correct. Its great to see others on here who believe in the truth...


What truth?

Or,

these are a conversation of two individual who doesnt know the subject while thinking they know?

[Yoshiyahu]

What is the point of ask my opinion if you have make up your mind?

To here others opinions of course!

[Hendrik]

No offense, but how can one learn if one cannot show respect to our masters
and our ancient culture?

Perhaps one have not seek far enough, and stop halfway.




Very Good questions.

How can a tree without root grow?

If one keep doubting the ancestors and masters and culture where will one lead to?

[Hendrik]

To here others opinions of course!


what is the point to here (hear) when one cant differentiate between real and fanasy?

NONE of you all have any clue on Qi , what is it, its cultivation....its utilization in martial art etc. That is what reality is. Dont believe me. Share with us how to evoke Zhen Qi and how do you know you have it? the most basic stuff.

[Lee Chiang Po]

what is the point to here (hear) when one cant differentiate between real and fanasy?

NONE of you all have any clue on Qi , what is it, its cultivation....its utilization in martial art etc. That is what reality is. Dont believe me. Share with us how to evoke Zhen Qi and how do you know you have it? the most basic stuff. <<
-----------

Hendrik, I noticed that you wrote NONE OF YOU HAVE A CLUE. You should have written , None of us have a clue. You speak as if you are the only one that has that knowledge, but from what I can gather, you are just talking. If you know what Chi or Qi is, please tell us in as good English as you can muster. No philosophical stuff, as that makes no sense at all. Tell us what Chi is since we don't know. And please, tell us exactly how you would go about cultivating it. I am not trying to be difficult here, but you continue to indicate that you know, but on one else does. Yet you have never offered us anything solid that we can look at.

[Lee Chiang Po]

Back in 1969 I lived in New Orleans, and I was walking down an alley toward a Chinese restuarant when I heard this loud chirping yell. I stopped and listened and heard it again. I looked over a wooden fence and there was this Japanese man about 60 years old standing there in a Karate stance. I watched for a few minutes. He would stand perfectly still for a good 2 or 3 minutes then would suddenly give out this loud chirp and throw his palm forward like he was striking something. I looked at what it was and it was a little sparrow in a bird cage. It was fluttering about every time he did this. Eventually he noticed me standing there. I asked what he was doing and he told me he was cultivating his Chi. Only he called it Qi, sounding like key. He explained that he was working toward killing the little bird by projecting his Qi at it. I asked if he had been successful so far and he said no. I asked how long he had been working on it and he told me about 12 years. I looked at him to see if I could see any other signs that he might be pulling my leg, but I guess he was serious. Personally, I think I would have given that up years earlier. I just sort of eased out and left him to his Qi cultivation. I suspect that should he still be doing that today, he would have met with the same results.
If you stand and strike a post hundreds of times a day, every day for months or even years, you will develop the ability to knock fence posts off at the ground. That would be Qi. Being able to focus your physical energy at a single spot. Breaking boards is another parler trick. The little wooden sticks that go between the boards at the ends will cause the first broken board to cause a chain reaction until they all break. Slip those sticks out and you will play hell breaking a bunch of boards at once. A good way to test skill, or focus ability, take a flat 12 inch wide by 12 inch long, one inch thick board and break it with the finger tips. No big feat? Try it this way. Thumb tacks at the top corners with grain running side to side, tie a length of sewing thread to the tacks and use that to suspend the board in the air. Try breaking that with finger tips and not break the thread. Try breaking it into several pieces without breaking the thread. When you can do that, you are developing your Qi. No hocus pokus, just constant training of the hands and your ability to focus your physical energy.

[Hendrik]

Hendrik, I noticed that you wrote NONE OF YOU HAVE A CLUE. You should have written , None of us have a clue.


Nope, strait honest talk. None of you have cultivate to that point.




You speak as if you are the only one that has that knowledge, but from what I can gather, you are just talking.


I have visited those sifus who knows from the east and west.
Thus, I know when what others talk/descrip is just speculation or real.





If you know what Chi or Qi is, please tell us in as good English as you can muster.

as you mention above, If you can gather, I am just talking then there is no point to ask me right?




No philosophical stuff, as that makes no sense at all.


What makes you think what I post is Philosophical stuffs, instead why not you examine is it because you are not in that level to see for yourself what is it?




Tell us what Chi is since we don't know.


With your mind set, you will not believe.








And please, tell us exactly how you would go about cultivating it.


Simple, Quiet the mind, enter the silence, and Qi will surface when the mind and body is quiet enough.

But this need close training, if anyone doesnt have a qualified sifu, go baisi with one. Otherwise, it is better to go to the church and do prayer. one will get the benifit the qi to a certain degree but much much safer.

Without that one is open up oneself for trouble when one get into the alter state.

Thus, in the Zen buddhism, the Shurangama sutra is used to prepare the trainer before even one starts the training.

http://online.sfsu.edu/~rone/Buddhism/Shurangama/ps.ss.02.v8.020526.screen.pdf

it is deadly serious stuffs.






I am not trying to be difficult here,

I dont take you as being difficult at all. If I were you I will think and do the same thing.






Yet you have never offered us anything solid that we can look at.



I have offered many many time in the post, Enter the silence, Enter the silence, Using the Silence, Using the Silence...... Shen, Cultivate the Shen, Quiet the mind, Quiet the mind, let go let God, Dao Mimic NAture.

as my sifu teaches me, he said"
But I cant quiet your mind for you. and since you cant enter into the silence, you will not get there.

Without be able to enter into silence, and keeping using the mind to speculate, there is no way one will get there. "



I am not trying to be difficult here too. I am trying to communicate you guys are travelling dangerous path unknowingly, but I cant force anyone to listern and comprehend if the mind is keeping spinning with the logic they want to believe.


also, Thus, I have heard, once one can enter into silence One knows, the Fighting Fighting Combat mind set is trouble for oneself and others. Big Trouble. Thus, it is the un conditional Love or Compassionate which is the TRUTH and the foundation of all Qi cultivation. Not those fighting fighting or I can beat you... type of stuffs.

Those who keep thinking to show off thier Qi, using the Qi ball, Qi blast for fighting or whatever is open up himself for Running fire enter to the demon state or and get posses by other energy.

Those keep speculate on Critical thinking are just close down and lock themself into thier own mind box.


This is a good example why things got to be taken deadly serious

http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53186&page=4





The following is a safe qigong for health training for anyone who like to investigate a basic level of Qi.
http://www.zqyxf.com/





Qi cultivation is not what the 95% of the people think. Forget those New Age stuffs. Those are either not usefull or trouble.



Just my 5 Cents ignore my post for anyone who dont like it.

[Hendrik]

He explained that he was working toward killing the little bird by projecting his Qi at it. I asked if he had been successful so far and he said no. I asked how long he had been working on it and he told me about 12 years.


This is sick minded.

Qi in the western sense is the Grace of God. Using it for killing is demonic.

Great that he is not in the level to creat trouble for himself and others.






If you stand and strike a post hundreds of times a day, every day for months or even years, you will develop the ability to knock fence posts off at the ground. That would be Qi.


That is not Qi and infact that cause drain or stagnation of Qi and cause internal imbalance or sickness if one doesnt know how to do it properly.

those who does iron palm and iron body will know, one needs herbs, massage, meditation.....etc rather then just strike something. Ask our friend Dale, he can tell you.





.................. Try breaking it into several pieces without breaking the thread. When you can do that, you are developing your Qi. No hocus pokus, just constant training of the hands and your ability to focus your physical energy.



That is not developing the Qi .

[Lee Chiang Po]

Well, I guess I rest my case. I have asked and did not actually recieve. Meditation alone is not the key to development of Chi. Not in my view anyway. You are putting it into a mystic sense and that is not reality. I have been a gung fu practitioner for over 50 years now, and I have done my share of meditation and quiteness as you call it, and I have talked to a few sifu and have not seen anyone that could show me Chi outside of their own ability to focus their energies physically. I am done here.

[Hendrik]

Things are much much more then most thinks....

Extremely simple but extremely difficult.

It is extremely simple because it is based on Loose, Silence, and flow with nature. It is extremely difficult because to tune into the state and cultivate it needs lots of dedication and a sifu who really know what is going on because he has gone throught it.


Today's one can use Brain wave machine or HRV to measure the states to verify a certain level of the Kung Fu but still more is needed.


Thus, most so called Qigong is very surface and not effective at all or even doesnt work. most meditator couldnt even enter the alpha state and some have decades of meditation practice but still can get in.


But,
The real qigong coaching by the expert master can heal Heart or chronic disease in 3 months or completely take away the root cause within a year. and that is just level 2 of the Qigong cultivation....

[Hendrik]

Meditation alone is not the key to development of Chi. Not in my view anyway.

What meditation did you do? what lineage of Qi training have you practice? Who is your sifu?

and What based have you to reach to this conclusion?






You are putting it into a mystic sense and that is not reality.


There is no mystic sense, it is you have never enter into this gate.








I have been a gung fu practitioner for over 50 years now, and I have done my share of meditation and quiteness as you call it,


Some have been practiced Kung Fu or meditate or even Taiji for a live time, but have not enter into the path.

I am not sure what you mean by Quiteness and thus would not make equavalant.


if you really want to check on your state, I suggest using the brain wave machine and see if you could enter into alpha at will or using the HRV machine to test the heart rate variation...





and I have talked to a few sifu and have not seen anyone that could show me Chi outside of their own ability to focus their energies physically.



I have post the following, Dr. Lee is a pioner in the field. if you really interested contact them.

http://www.zqyxf.com/

http://www.zqyxf.com/en/index.asp


and experience Zhen Qi first hand.

To be real honest,
sifu XYZ or ABC doesnt mean a thing if they are not the expert. I myself making the search for 30 years, going through a few Qigong sifus.... thus, I know this is not everyone's piece of cake stuffs.








I am done here.


Sure, it is a free will world.

I am just describe what I found in my journey. people is welcome to take it or leave it.

[Yoshiyahu]

What is Flow? What is this stuff?

What is Loose?

What is Silence?

What is this stuff hendrik?


Things are much much more then most thinks....

Extremely simple but extremely difficult.

It is extremely simple because it is based on Loose, Silence, and flow with nature. It is extremely difficult because to tune into the state and cultivate it needs lots of dedication and a sifu who really know what is going on because he has gone throught it.


Today's one can use Brain wave machine or HRV to measure the states to verify a certain level of the Kung Fu but still more is needed.


Thus, most so called Qigong is very surface and not effective at all or even doesnt work. most meditator couldnt even enter the alpha state and some have decades of meditation practice but still can get in.


But,
The real qigong coaching by the expert master can heal Heart or chronic disease in 3 months or completely take away the root cause within a year. and that is just level 2 of the Qigong cultivation....