Yin or Yang

[Yoshiyahu]

I have heard different Lineages of Wing Chun speak either mostly all Yin or all Yang. But not too many realize WC is both Yin and Yang.

Yin=Soft,Slow,Insubstantial and Passive.

Yang=Hard, Fast, Substantial and Aggressive.

Most guys who fight in a ring or cage with their WC only tend to focus on Yang aspects. An those who do not fight at all believe all they need is Yin or soft force to redirect. What about using both?

What do you guys think. I believe Wing Chun is both External and Internal. Both Waijia and Neijia. But some people believe it is all one or the other an neglect certain aspects of WC training?

What do you think?

[stonecrusher69]

Wing Chun is both Yin and Yang. I don't agree that Yin is soft. Yin quality is soft only on the outside but hard on the inside otherwise it won't work. Better to be all Yang if you don't know the Yin.

[Yoshiyahu]

Yin is soft...Now you can have hard concealed in soft

Thats what the little smaller circle means. Soft concealed in hard and Hard concealed in soft!



Wing Chun is both Yin and Yang. I don't agree that Yin is soft. Yin quality is soft only on the outside but hard on the inside otherwise it won't work. Better to be all Yang if you don't know the Yin.

[anerlich]

What do you guys think. I believe Wing Chun is both External and Internal. Both Waijia and Neijia. But some people believe it is all one or the other an neglect certain aspects of WC training?

I don't really care what other people think, and neither should you.

[Yoshiyahu]

Well the Forum is a place to hash out opinions. Hear like minded thoughts. Enjoy conflicting opinions. To learn from those more experience and knowledgeable than yourself. To impart your knowledge to those just starting their WC journey.

Thats whole purpose for fun. Thats why I care!




I don't really care what other people think, and neither should you.

[Katsu Jin Ken]

I read WC described once as a cotton ball filled with needles, soft looking just dont squeeze, good way of describing it IMO

[Hendrik]

I read WC described once as a cotton ball filled with needles, soft looking just dont squeeze, good way of describing it IMO


is it true?

[Liddel]

I think of it as both considering we use a stystem that relies on both sides equally in combat...Poon Sau being the perfect place to start thinking about VT techs being Yin and yang...they work together for balance....

On the other hand does it matter what one thinks or what one can Do ?

DREW

[AdrianK]

Every movement of the human body has a percentage of both yin and yang. You cannot be 100% hard, and you cannot be 100% soft. Its physically impossible.

That being said, every movement you make, from a soft or hard perspective, is variable based on necessity, in combat.

There may be a focus on not fighting force with force. Or a focus on using your strength and pushing through, but nonetheless, at some point you must yield, and at some point you must push back. Thats the nature of combat.

One cannot exist without the other, so the concept of "Soft" styles, and "Hard" styles is, simply put, a ridiculous and incorrect oversimplification aimed at describing a particular focus of a style's strategy.

[sihing]

On the other hand does it matter what one thinks or what one can Do ?

DREW

It matters only to you, and not what other's think of what you think and do. Too many times we fall into the trap of letting other's opinion's of us dictate what is right or wrong in our lives. Deep down we already know what is good for us. Of course we do need to gain the advice of mentors and people that are further down the road than us, but ultimately we need to investigate for ourselves, and not take another's opinion or judgement as truth. Truth is very personal. As Bruce said, all knowledge is really "self knowledge".

James

P.S. There would no yin if yang did not exist, the reverse is true as well. So therefore one can conclude that if you are exibiting a so called "yang" quality, that you are capable of exibiting the complimentary quality of "yin" as well.

[Hendrik]

Every movement of the human body has a percentage of both yin and yang. You cannot be 100% hard, and you cannot be 100% soft. Its physically impossible.

That being said, every movement you make, from a soft or hard perspective, is variable based on necessity, in combat.

There may be a focus on not fighting force with force. Or a focus on using your strength and pushing through, but nonetheless, at some point you must yield, and at some point you must push back. Thats the nature of combat.

One cannot exist without the other, so the concept of "Soft" styles, and "Hard" styles is, simply put, a ridiculous and incorrect oversimplification aimed at describing a particular focus of a style's strategy.


IMHO,

seriously,


1, Yes, 100% ying and 100 yang exist. ying and yang are mostly mis applied in general. most dont know what is ying and Yang refer to.

2, kang and Rou is misleading to be translated into soft and hard.


3, internal and external are meaningless for most because most dont know what is internal and external. even those who claim to practice internal art often doesnt do internal art.

Thus, most practice today is hard and external by the definition of the ancient Chinese.





Due to these above are not clearly understood.

Thus, today's TCMA mostly doesnt work. because we all most doesnt know how to read the Operating Manual anymore around the world.

[Hendrik]

not take another's opinion or judgement as truth. Truth is very personal. As Bruce said, all knowledge is really "self knowledge". -------


Thus, I have heard from the old timer,

1, Truth are not opinion and personal. in fact, Truth are universal. The problem is most never reach the state. Thus, most speculate.

2, Knowledge is an accumulation which is good for mind speculation. realization or knowing is the soul of spontaneous. two very different things.






So therefore one can conclude that if you are exibiting a so called "yang" quality, that you are capable of exibiting the complimentary quality of "yin" as well. ----


By nature that is true, however,
often one doesnt know how to do a complimentary quality. Thus, the i ching said, Pure Yin will not grown. one can practice pure yin and have no idea about Yang because s/he have never expose to.


Due to all of these are not clear today. Thus, we all mostly are doing some extreme stuffs thinking otherwise.

One of the best example for WCK is the Sam Bai Fut section of SLT/SNT. most of people are doing it in a external hard press muscular way disregard of how they think it is internal or they do it slow......etc. Thus, those doesnt really yield any "internal" result.

[Hendrik]

Yin=Soft,Slow,Insubstantial and Passive. -----

Yin is not equal to Rou.

Yin and Rou are refer to different things.

Thus, the Chinese use the term Yin Rou. if they are the same the chinese will only said Yin instead of Yin Rou.





Yang=Hard, Fast, Substantial and Aggressive.-----


Yang and Kang are refer to different things.

Thus, the chinese use the term Yang Kang. if they are the same the chinese will only said Yang instead of Yang Kang.



Further more,
Yin and Yang both can be aggressive.

The aggresive Yin are such like the spiral under flow under the river.

The aggresive Yang are such like the explosion of a bomb.

[Hendrik]

IMHO,

Thus, I have heard,


1, technically,

this modern time issues are

lots of mis-understanding. lots of mind speculation.


lots of intepretation and speculation instead of describe the attainment. Thus, the art is lost because if no one have attained the state no one could teaches.







2,
The humanistic of the art is not emphasis and create lots of mis behave violance or imbalance.


The following are the code of training in Shao Lin when one is going to train the pressure points method. Look at what type of code Shao Lin enforce.


most of us today have violate the code 2, 9 and 10. and Thus, there are those rather bring the art with them when they died.

code number 7 and 8 most modern person could not hold it.

IE: As I have heard, the niece of the famous Dr. Leong Jan, Leong Sim burn about 50 training/teaching manual of Leong family before she passed away.






anyone who is good with english would be doing a great job helping us to translate the following.



少林点穴法

少林寺习武戒约


　　1.习此技术者，以强健体魄为要旨，宜朝夕行事，不可随意作辏
　　2.宜入佛门，悲怜为怀，纵于技术精娴，只可习以自卫，切戒逞气血之私，好勇斗狠，犯者与违反朝规同罪 。
　　3.平日对待师长，宜敬谨将事，勿得有违抗及傲慢之行为。
　　4.对待后辈，须和顺、温良、诚信，孝双亲，不得恃强凌弱，任意妄为。
　　5.游行之时，如与俗家相遇，宜以忍辱救世为主旨，不可轻恃技术而逞强。
　　6.凡属少林师法，不可逞愤相较，但偶而遭遇，未知来路，须先以左手作掌上与眉齐，如系同派则以右掌照 式答之，则彼此相知，当互为援助，以示同道之谊。
　　7.饮酒食肉为佛门之大戒，宜敬谨遵守，盖酒能夺志，肉可昏神也。
　　8.女色男风犯之必遭天谴，亦为佛门之所难容，凡吾宗门弟子，必严守戒规，勿毫违矣。
　　9.凡俗家弟子，不可轻以技术相授，以免危害于世，违佛氏之宗旨。如深知其人确性情纯良，而又无强悍暴 狠之行，始可传之。但饮酒淫欲之戒须使其人誓为谨守，勿得以一时之兴，而逞强斗狠，此禅宗之第一要义，幸勿 轻忽视之也。
　　10.戒恃强争胜之心，及贪得自夸之习，世之以此自丧其身而兼流毒于人者，不知凡几。盖以技击术之于人 ，其关系至为紧要；或炫技于一时，或凌弱逞暴而生意外之波澜，为禅门之败类，贻羞当世，取祸俄顷，是岂先师 创立此术之本意也乎！凡在后学者宜切记之。

[Katsu Jin Ken]

all i see are squares where the chinese (im guessing) is supposed to be what do i need to download?

[AdrianK]

1, Yes, 100% ying and 100 yang exist. ying and yang are mostly mis applied in general. most dont know what is ying and Yang refer to.

In the context of this thread, I was referring to the literal hardness or softness of the human body. You can throw out the improper use of the terms yin and yang, and in their place put the definitions the original poster specified, to see what I was saying. Where-ever there is movement in the human body, there is always "hardness", or contraction. Where-ever there is hardness or contraction, theres always softness or relaxation. Its impossible to make your entire body 100% relaxed, or contract absolutely every muscle simultaneously.



1, Truth are not opinion and personal. in fact, Truth are universal. The problem is most never reach the state. Thus, most speculate.

Truth from a human beings perspective is opinion and personal.
Truth is universal only in the sense that what truly is, IS. But a human beings ability to perceive "truth" is limited. Just read about how the human brain works. How memory works. How sight works. What is "truth" to us is a very unstable foundation that can be pulled out from under us, at any time.

Thus, we're too limited as a species to perceive universal truth.



2, Knowledge is an accumulation which is good for mind speculation. realization or knowing is the soul of spontaneous. two very different things.

Please explain what spontaneity has to do with realization or knowing, or how knowledge is different from knowing. Knowledge is the foundation of understanding. We gain knowledge by our five senses, and derive our realizations and understanding from this.


That being said, I assume english is not your first language (no offense intended at all), so it seems there are things that you're trying to put into words that don't make as much sense in their literal translations.

[Hendrik]

In the context of this thread, I was referring to the literal hardness or softness of the human body.

You can throw out the improper use of the terms yin and yang, and in their place put the definitions the original poster specified, to see what I was saying.

Where-ever there is movement in the human body, there is always "hardness", or contraction. Where-ever there is hardness or contraction, theres always softness or relaxation.

Its impossible to make your entire body 100% relaxed, or contract absolutely every muscle simultaneously. ---------------------





The Kang/Rou or Yin/Yang doesnt required the body to be 100% relaxed. In fact most people mistaken Soong as just relax. Nope that is not the case. if it is about 100% relaxed how come those practice relax only cant evoke their Zhen Qi?


However, saying this, a fact is that those who have advance deep internal skill could reach into a state of "dissolve into emptiness".

That is a different dimension and level which only those who attained it could know.


It is in this state that using Yee to lead Qi to transport physical body could be implemented.

This state cannot be logical derive from ordinary human physical activity knowledge.



Yes, they exist. That is the state which the WCK kuen kuit said, using silence to lead action.
In western sense, that is the state of ASK and it is already Given. In Chinese, it is said Yee moves and Shen is already there.








Truth from a human beings perspective is opinion and personal.
Truth is universal only in the sense that what truly is, IS. But a human beings ability to perceive "truth" is limited. Just read about how the human brain works. How memory works. How sight works. What is "truth" to us is a very unstable foundation that can be pulled out from under us, at any time.
Thus, we're too limited as a species to perceive universal truth. --------------------




Thus, I have heard from those who practice or cultivate the awareness path.

If one let go and let God, then the limitation will desolve in an instant thus universal truth can be perceive directly without the inference of mind.

The issue is most human doesnt know there is something beyond mind.

In Zen it is said, the mind is supposed to be slave and the awareness the master. however, human mistaken the mind as the master and awareness as the slave. That is where all the limitation begin.

Can it be do away? yes. the path is simple but the practice is not easy.


Those who attain their level just have to describe what is going on and doesnt do the logical derivation or speculation.


Because it is non dual, no mind, no processing, there is no Me no You, no fear. In Shao Lin, it is called Bu Dong Xing.

少林功夫的极致是练就不动心.

http://www.shaolin.org.cn/html/html/wu/menu1.htm






Please explain what spontaneity has to do with realization or knowing, or how knowledge is different from knowing.

Knowledge is the foundation of understanding. We gain knowledge by our five senses, and derive our realizations and understanding from this. -------


You are totally right if mind is the only It. however, that is not. In WCK, the Chi Sau is suppose to lead one to open up this level of enlightenment --- by passed the mind.


Sponatneity,
realization or knowing is Awareness in action direct.

IE: one doesnt have to pay attention while driving. one can eat, listern to music, talking in the cell phone, but the car is travelling 60miles/hours in a well manage flow without thinking about the driving.



Knowledge, is information which got differentiate and process and store in the mind. and the mind use it as a reference to process something.

IE: those who learn math have the knowledge of 1 + 2 =3. and as how fast can one calculate? that subject to the mind's condition.


These are different "things" within one. But most of us run by automatic program. thus, we dont know who is the real master and how things process or active.


until one knows what is what one cant by passed mind such as Mas Oyama means in his creation of Kyokushin --- ultimate truth by passing mind because mind is too late.

Again, back to the Let Go Let God , No mind. Nothing Fixed, Thus, it said, Comes accept, Goes return it back, let go move forward, using silence to lead action. when thinking involve it is non real time and always one step too late.








That being said, I assume english is not your first language (no offense intended at all),

so it seems there are things that you're trying to put into words that don't make as much sense in their literal translations. ------


No offense is taken.

lots of things doesnt make sense even if I write it in Chinese. Lots of things I dont even think it make sense if this is 10 years ago. So be patient if you are interested.

even for me when I was learning these stuffs. It doesnt make sense, until I visit sifus over sifus... and learn to let go my logic a bit at a time.


TCMA is not a sport. it goes much further then that. It is about live itself presented with physical sets and motion. IMHO.

[Hendrik]

all i see are squares where the chinese (im guessing) is supposed to be what do i need to download?

Those are Chinese writting from ancient Shao Lin Temple. The codes of behavior needed for learning the DEADLY stuffs you are discussing in other thread.

In fact, after one takes these code and vow to hold them . it is useless to learn those Deadly stuffs. It is like teach one all the gambling tricks but one first have to promise never gambling again.


See, all of these are just a trap to lead one to be good. Sure, they have the technology but they know, it is not worthed to use it for real --- to hurt anyone including an ant.

Love is the most deadliest weapon. Like Spring time, Love grows and yield positive outcomes without creating enermy who will come back and revenge. and one win it all.

Damo the founder of Shao lin martial art knows about it, Christ knows about it. all the sage knows about it.



One of my story is there was a sifu who have issue with my late sisuk gong. So after decades, I make arrangement intend to visit him to discuss some technical issues, but he thought I was send by my sifu to make him paid. In fact, I am clueless about the past. My late sifu didnt even mention a thing to me. So, what is the point to live like that? when is it going to end with todays this beat that person and tomorrow the other person get others friend to revenge?

[Yoshiyahu]

How does the understanding of Yin and Yang relate to Wing Chun?

Does Wing Chun speak of Yin and Yang.

Whats your view point from your personal experience or study or from what you have been taught by way of Sifu?

[Hendrik]

How does the understanding of Yin and Yang relate to Wing Chun?
Does Wing Chun speak of Yin and Yang --------


Sure, read those ancient WCK scripture. Plenty of them and they specifically means something.

[AdrianK]

Hendrik I was going to write an entire response to your thread, until this.



even for me when I was learning these stuffs. It doesnt make sense, until I visit sifus over sifus... and learn to let go my logic a bit at a time.

I respectfully withdraw from this discussion... you can't really have a logical discussion without logic, and since what you're saying is based on your personal experiences and beliefs in your Sifu, I don't see any point in bringing up my opinions as they're godless and faithless :)

[Hendrik]

I respectfully withdraw from this discussion... you can't really have a logical discussion without logic, -------


logic when I was a teenager, logic when I was middle age... different logic.
logic when I does Kyokushin, logic when I do internal art... different logic.




and since what you're saying is based on your personal experiences and beliefs in your Sifu,-----------



That is not what I mean.

What I mean is until one taste the ice cream one doesnt know what it is. one doesnt have to believe ice cream exist or the sifu is telling the truth.

See, one of the big mis-understood about TCMA internal art is believe. Nope, it is not believe but practice.




I don't see any point in bringing up my opinions as they're godless and faithless :)---------------


I once think that way to Godless and faithless. But then I grow beyond that. I still can be Godless and faithless but I know that is in complete.


Thanks for the chat!

[Yoshiyahu]

What are some of sayings your Sifu's shared about Yin and Yang with in Wing Chun?

[Hendrik]

It is not anyone's saying but

Ancient WCK kuen kuit comes with a wholistic or complete view which include Shen, Yee, Yin/Yang, Qi......


It is similar to a language to describe an art .


For example, math is a language to describe the nature in a certain way. has its strength and limitation.

The chinese using Yin/Yang, Shen, Qi, Kang Rou...... also as a language to describe their art.


Today's some dont want to understand this language, some dont know the language, some fantasy on the language, some shooting at it before even know what is it, or applied fragmented piece senseless like a parrot.


It is just a language to describe and communicate the art or the nature of human in a certain way or from a certain angle.

[Yoshiyahu]

Do you have an example?



It is not anyone's saying but

Ancient WCK kuen kuit comes with a wholistic or complete view which include Shen, Yee, Yin/Yang, Qi......


It is similar to a language to describe an art .


For example, math is a language to describe the nature in a certain way. has its strength and limitation.

The chinese using Yin/Yang, Shen, Qi, Kang Rou...... also as a language to describe their art.


Today's some dont want to understand this language, some dont know the language, some fantasy on the language, some shooting at it before even know what is it, or applied fragmented piece senseless like a parrot.


It is just a language to describe and communicate the art or the nature of human in a certain way or from a certain angle.

[Hendrik]

Do you have an example?


Long deep story...

One usually baisi to learn these stuffs and take a while...


a good taiji book to have some feel

Cheng Man-ch'ing. Cheng-tsu's Thirteen Treatises on T'ai Chi Ch'uan. Translated by Benjamin Lo and Martin Inn. Berkeley: North Atlantic Books (1985).

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1583942203/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link

[Yoshiyahu]

Are there any Wing Chun books that discusses the as of yin and yang in detail?




Long deep story...

One usually baisi to learn these stuffs and take a while...


a good taiji book to have some feel

Cheng Man-ch'ing. Cheng-tsu's Thirteen Treatises on T'ai Chi Ch'uan. Translated by Benjamin Lo and Martin Inn. Berkeley: North Atlantic Books (1985).

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1583942203/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link

[Hendrik]

Are there any Wing Chun books that discusses the as of yin and yang in detail?



From a historian reseach point of view.

there are ancient SLT writting with Yin and Yang and details exist. However those are not public information still.

[Yoshiyahu]

From a historian reseach point of view.

there are ancient SLT writting with Yin and Yang and details exist. However those are not public information still.

The ancient Sil Lim Tau writing...is it written in Mandarid or Cantonese?

Also were can a WC practioner obtain a copy of this manuscript?

[Dale Dugas]

All Chinese writing uses the same Hanzi or characters.

The spoken language has different forms but the written form is only distinguised between the pre WWII characters and the modern Post WWII characters.

[Yoshiyahu]

All Chinese writing uses the same Hanzi or characters.

The spoken language has different forms but the written form is only distinguised between the pre WWII characters and the modern Post WWII characters.

My Question is The ancient Sil Lim Tau writing with Yin and Yang and details mention by Hendrik ...is it written in Mandarid or Cantonese?

Also where can one obtain a copy of this manuscript?

[punchdrunk]

I wish you luck with your questions, maybe you can get some answers regarding the actual training methods and results. An inquisitive mind leads to better training and results.

[Yoshiyahu]

Hey thankyou. I like to provoke thought and better answers in people. Thats why I asked thought provoking and probing questions. To get an open ended discussion that is on topic and too far off on another tangent.


Also on that note how have you been a member since 1969?

This Internet forum wasn't in existence then...an the tai chi kungfu magazine wasn't either.



I wish you luck with your questions, maybe you can get some answers regarding the actual training methods and results. An inquisitive mind leads to better training and results.

[Hendrik]

All Chinese writing uses the same Hanzi or characters.

The spoken language has different forms but the written form is only distinguised between the pre WWII characters and the modern Post WWII characters.



You are right. there are a pre and post communist China writting characters.
and that is not that difficult to read.



What is difficult is

the ancient writting is based on Classical Chinese, it was written very different then today's chinese.

and Thus, the classical chinese is not well understood today even among the chinese if they dont study it.


Those who knows classical chinese could read the chinese writting for past thousands of years. However, those know only today's chinese will not be able to read those ancient document.


PS:

Dale, you have a nice site.

Some thoughts on the ancient chinese body conditioning:
with the modern high tech society and process food today. I am not sure how is those conditioning training is going to proceed because human body is changing. the Mind is more disturb too. there are unknown side effect due to the process food and no one knows about it well because human are only taking these type of food for past 30 years while the chinese is based on nature food for past thousands of years. the training condition process is based on nature food not the modern process food. WE certainly know, modern process food could make Qi unsettle or disturb Shen.
Without a quiet mind one cant cummulate the qi without abstain from sex stimulant the bone will not be strong. if one force it, the side effect damanging will be un avoidable.

The art might lost forever in the modern society.

what do you think?

[Hendrik]

My Question is The ancient Sil Lim Tau writing with Yin and Yang and details mention by Hendrik ...is it written in Mandarid or Cantonese?

Also where can one obtain a copy of this manuscript?


Thus, I have heard,

the chinese sifus who keep these stuffs still following the old code such as the one from Shao LIn.

Thus, it is not likely they will reveal. unless some one earn it via their good loving kindness.


since
it is an art a way of living. it is not a sport or a competition game and not a weapon of destruction. it is also not a business which is for sale. not something one showing off and feel proud about.





　　1.习此技术者，以强健体魄为要旨，宜朝夕行事，不可随意作辏
　　2.宜入佛门，悲怜为怀，纵于技术精娴，只可习以自卫，切戒逞气血之私，好勇斗狠，犯者与 违反朝规同罪 。
　　3.平日对待师长，宜敬谨将事，勿得有违抗及傲慢之行为。
　　4.对待后辈，须和顺、温良、诚信，孝双亲，不得恃强凌弱，任意妄为。
　　5.游行之时，如与俗家相遇，宜以忍辱救世为主旨，不可轻恃技术而逞强。
　　6.凡属少林师法，不可逞愤相较，但偶而遭遇，未知来路，须先以左手作掌上与眉齐，如系同 派则以右掌照 式答之，则彼此相知，当互为援助，以示同道之谊。
　　7.饮酒食肉为佛门之大戒，宜敬谨遵守，盖酒能夺志，肉可昏神也。
　　8.女色男风犯之必遭天谴，亦为佛门之所难容，凡吾宗门弟子，必严守戒规，勿毫违矣。

　　9.凡俗家弟子，不可轻以技术相授，以免危害于世，违佛氏之宗旨。如深知其人确性情纯良， 而又无强悍暴 狠之行，始可传之。但饮酒淫欲之戒须使其人誓为谨守，勿得以一时之兴，而逞强斗狠，此禅宗之第 一要义，幸勿 轻忽视之也。

brief Translation:

The lay person who study this art must not lightly passed this art to others. In order to avoid disturb the society in a bad way.

This is the principle of Buddhism. It must only passed to those who is loving kindness without agressive competative cruel behavior.

The one who studied it must vow to no longer getting drunk or abuse one's body in sexual activity. One must not behave brutaly, aggresive due to emotion. That is the first principle of Zen buddhism. This code must be seriously hold.



　　10.戒恃强争胜之心，及贪得自夸之习，世之以此自丧其身而兼流毒于人者，不知凡几。盖以 技击术之于人 ，其关系至为紧要；或炫技于一时，或凌弱逞暴而生意外之波澜，为禅门之败类，贻羞当世，取祸俄 顷，是岂先师 创立此术之本意也乎！凡在后学者宜切记之。


brief Translation:

One must abstain from self center competation and doing anything just to win. one must abstain from self boasting and self righteousness. These type of competition and winning behavior are like poison which could cause one's destruction.

Thus, those who have the art, watch themself very tightly. one doesnt errogant and show off or bullying others. Those who doesnt follow the proper behavior is the ruin of the Zen school. They are the shame and they cause trouble and destruction to themselve.

The ancient teacher created the art for good, not for competition, aggresive, winning at all cost, showing off, and errogantness.

Those who study this art needs to be watchfull for their character and behavior.

[Yoshiyahu]

Thus, I have heard,

the chinese sifus who keep these stuffs still following the old code such as the one from Shao LIn.

Thus, it is not likely they will reveal. unless some one earn it via their good loving kindness.


since
it is an art a way of living. it is not a sport or a competition game and not a weapon of destruction. it is also not a business which is for sale. not something one showing off and feel proud about.





　　1.习此技术者，以强健体魄为要旨，宜朝夕行事，不可随意作辏
　　2.宜入佛门，悲怜为怀，纵于技术精娴，只可习以自卫，切戒逞气血之私，好勇斗狠，犯者与 违反朝规同罪 。
　　3.平日对待师长，宜敬谨将事，勿得有违抗及傲慢之行为。
　　4.对待后辈，须和顺、温良、诚信，孝双亲，不得恃强凌弱，任意妄为。
　　5.游行之时，如与俗家相遇，宜以忍辱救世为主旨，不可轻恃技术而逞强。
　　6.凡属少林师法，不可逞愤相较，但偶而遭遇，未知来路，须先以左手作掌上与眉齐，如系同 派则以右掌照 式答之，则彼此相知，当互为援助，以示同道之谊。
　　7.饮酒食肉为佛门之大戒，宜敬谨遵守，盖酒能夺志，肉可昏神也。
　　8.女色男风犯之必遭天谴，亦为佛门之所难容，凡吾宗门弟子，必严守戒规，勿毫违矣。

　　9.凡俗家弟子，不可轻以技术相授，以免危害于世，违佛氏之宗旨。如深知其人确性情纯良， 而又无强悍暴 狠之行，始可传之。但饮酒淫欲之戒须使其人誓为谨守，勿得以一时之兴，而逞强斗狠，此禅宗之第 一要义，幸勿 轻忽视之也。

brief Translation:

The lay person who study this art must not lightly passed this art to others. In order to avoid disturb the society in a bad way.

This is the principle of Buddhism. It must only passed to those who is loving kindness without agressive competative cruel behavior.

The one who studied it must vow to no longer getting drunk or abuse one's body in sexual activity. One must not behave brutaly, aggresive due to emotion. That is the first principle of Zen buddhism. This code must be seriously hold.



　　10.戒恃强争胜之心，及贪得自夸之习，世之以此自丧其身而兼流毒于人者，不知凡几。盖以 技击术之于人 ，其关系至为紧要；或炫技于一时，或凌弱逞暴而生意外之波澜，为禅门之败类，贻羞当世，取祸俄 顷，是岂先师 创立此术之本意也乎！凡在后学者宜切记之。


brief Translation:

One must abstain from self center competation and doing anything just to win. one must abstain from self boasting and self righteousness. These type of competition and winning behavior are like poison which could cause one's destruction.

Thus, those who have the art, watch themself very tightly. one doesnt errogant and show off or bullying others. Those who doesnt follow the proper behavior is the ruin of the Zen school. They are the shame and they cause trouble and destruction to themselve.

The ancient teacher created the art for good, not for competition, aggresive, winning at all cost, showing off, and errogantness.

Those who study this art needs to be watchfull for their character and behavior.



Very Interesting...are there any other sources outside of Buddhism you find enlighting? As for the abuse one's body in sexual activity. My Wife may object to that one. I gotta keep home happy!!!

[Violent Designs]

Very Interesting...are there any other sources outside of Buddhism you find enlighting? As for the abuse one's body in sexual activity. My Wife may object to that one. I gotta keep home happy!!!

Quality sex lead to healthy lifestyle.

[Yoshiyahu]

Quality sex lead to healthy lifestyle.

I agree with that...

[Dale Dugas]

You are right. there are a pre and post communist China writting characters.
and that is not that difficult to read.



What is difficult is

the ancient writting is based on Classical Chinese, it was written very different then today's chinese.

and Thus, the classical chinese is not well understood today even among the chinese if they dont study it.


Those who knows classical chinese could read the chinese writting for past thousands of years. However, those know only today's chinese will not be able to read those ancient document.


PS:

Dale, you have a nice site.

Some thoughts on the ancient chinese body conditioning:
with the modern high tech society and process food today. I am not sure how is those conditioning training is going to proceed because human body is changing. the Mind is more disturb too. there are unknown side effect due to the process food and no one knows about it well because human are only taking these type of food for past 30 years while the chinese is based on nature food for past thousands of years. the training condition process is based on nature food not the modern process food. WE certainly know, modern process food could make Qi unsettle or disturb Shen.
Without a quiet mind one cant cummulate the qi without abstain from sex stimulant the bone will not be strong. if one force it, the side effect damanging will be un avoidable.

The art might lost forever in the modern society.

what do you think?

Thanks for the kind words on my site.

I practice a lot of quiet sitting and power standing as well as the internal iron vest training.

I make the decision to quiet my mind. Those that do not will never fully realize their potentials.

I also make a decision to eat as little processed food as possible. I like grass fed beef and have a great farm here in the MA area that delivers their meat overnight UPS. If you have not tried it you should. Makes regular beef taste like sand.

I am teaching these skills to those interested in order to pass it down to the next generation.

Hope all is well with you and your clan

[Hendrik]

Thanks for the kind words on my site.

I practice a lot of quiet sitting and power standing as well as the internal iron vest training.

I make the decision to quiet my mind. Those that do not will never fully realize their potentials.

I also make a decision to eat as little processed food as possible. I like grass fed beef and have a great farm here in the MA area that delivers their meat overnight UPS. If you have not tried it you should. Makes regular beef taste like sand.

I am teaching these skills to those interested in order to pass it down to the next generation.

Hope all is well with you and your clan



Dale,

You are welcome.



Thanks for the sharing.

Yes, silence, without silence there is no real thing; in WCK we said using silence to lead action.
sitting is excellent to quiet mind, Christian prayer also excellent. I have tried both.


I become a vegitarian after studying with the late Zen patriach Ven Hsuan Hua.
I start Buddhism because I was trying to learn the classical chinese so that I can decode some of the ancient martial art scrip and get understanding into meditation on how to deal with Shen.



Well, at the end, I end up having a different life style.

These days I take only nature/organic vegan food. Silence is much easy to enter, body is much ligther . emotion is much easy to let go and to preserve Jing and stablize the qi....


These days I am focus on body healing mostly...



Best Regards to you and your martial family.

[Hendrik]

Very Interesting...are there any other sources outside of Buddhism you find enlighting? As for the abuse one's body in sexual activity. My Wife may object to that one. I gotta keep home happy!!!




Without the training that cut off sex, one's internal power is not going to be strong and in fact might cause damage --- the Shen cant last and drifting, The bone is weak, the kidney qi is draining...... Advance TCMA is certainly not anybody's bow of rice or what people think when they join a martial art school.

The fact is six hour before and after qi transporting meditation having sex will cause one to be sick or very draining.


See, that is not even the level of enligtement yet. but real basic. very basic. without the energy store, the kundalini raising, forget about enlightement. One needs lots and lots of energy to get enlightement.


It is all about accumulating energy game. mind, emotion, and sex are big drainer.

[Yoshiyahu]

Well me It takes alot for sex to make feel drain. One sitting is like doing a Wing Chun form really fast for hours. An I after a couple of minutes of rest I have more energy than before. I have always been that way for as long as I remember. Sex actually gives me more energy. I feel like I am sucking the energy out of my woman. I don't know when I started doing that but for a long while it has been that way. Plus in America...we have many vitamins,juicers, and there are also chinese herbs to our advantage. Some times your body needs to be replenish. So we in west have the better ability of replenish what the body needs. Although one could do a little Chi Kung when he wakes up and before he goes to sleep. That way any Chi Lost while sleeping will be replenished and also while awake.



Also good for those sons coming of age who have constant wet dreams.


Wow I remember that age. I use to have them every night for a long while.


Without the training that cut off sex, one's internal power is not going to be strong and in fact might cause damage --- the Shen cant last and drifting, The bone is weak, the kidney qi is draining...... Advance TCMA is certainly not anybody's bow of rice or what people think when they join a martial art school.

The fact is six hour before and after qi transporting meditation having sex will cause one to be sick or very draining.


See, that is not even the level of enligtement yet. but real basic. very basic. without the energy store, the kundalini raising, forget about enlightement. One needs lots and lots of energy to get enlightement.


It is all about accumulating energy game. mind, emotion, and sex are big drainer.