Making your WC deadly

[Yoshiyahu]

What are some techinques that one can practice to make his WC more deadly against lets say an armed attacker when you have no weapon,can not run,can not talk your way out of a fight and know that your attacker plans on stabbing you to death.

Are there any deadly techniques you can practiced to be prepared for this one and hundred chance you have to fight for your life? Also what conditioning should one do to make their WC more lethal?


For instance Wing Chun is like a broad sword. Knowing the forms and the basics is the Sword by itself. But having an art(Sword) with a unsharpen blade is like fighting with a knife or sword that doesn't cut. You can still hurt and maybe kill with a dull sword but it would be harder against someone else who has a sharpen blade. Wing Chun is a gun. A gun can can injure and kill with out bullets, but with bullets its much easier. Your gun w/o bullets would be useless against a gunmen with bullets.

So the basics and forms are the gun and sword.

But certain conditioning would give you the bullets or sharpen your blade?

Please share what you think the bullets are in WC?

[Hendrik]

What are some techinques that one can practice to make his WC more deadly against lets say an armed attacker when you have no weapon,can not run,can not talk your way out of a fight and know that your attacker plans on stabbing you to death.



deadly WC you mean deadly toilet? :)



1, with your noisy "if" specuating mind you are attracting garbage.

2, with your noisy "if" specuating mind you trap yourself.

3, with your noisy "if" specuating mind you set yourself up to all of the above.


what you think like above do the most damage to yourself.


Why dont you just quiet that "monkey" mind and attract not the illusion and just live in peace? your choice of couse.


Until you learn how to quiet your mind. Your mind is your worse enermy. You need to learn NOT Making your WC deadly. but living in peace.





see contradic to your post in other thread.

Yes, there is advance WCK principle:


WCK advance principle said,

Yau Yeng Da Yeng, Mo Yeng Da Yieng, Mo Yieng Poh Chung.

there is the shape target the shape, there is no shape target the shadow/dynamic, there is no shadow/dynamic broke your own reference or center.

Broken your own reference or think out of box call for the ability to Do Using Silence to lead action.

Silence means one has to quiet one's mind.



See, advance WCK principle saying not the center line, pressure forward..... those stuffs.

Advance WCK principle said Come accept, goes let it return, let go and move forward, using silence to lead action.

and

Advance WCK principle said there is the shape target the shape, there is no shape target the shadow/dynamic, there is no shadow/dynamic broke your own reference.


IT is about let Go let GOD, or let it flow in silence. Peace silence. instead of those monkey mind jumping around. with those monkey mind, the kung fu cant be too deep.



Think about it. You dont need deadly stuffs but peacefull thought to attract good things. That is Poh Chung. Think out of box. Learn the advance principle and choose not to be the frog trap itself within the well and thinking the sky is as big as the well opening or the monkey jumping around thinking all the world is going to get him.

Relax! All is well. I dont make my WC deadly but I make my toilet warm and cozy and peacefull. :D

[mjw]

The overall training makes WCK as deadly as it can be.

Bong-lap forearm conditioning helps make hard gan & dip saus etc. then the wall bag to make your short range strikes more powerful/ deadly. Not to mention Dummy work.... WCK is a fully rounded system overall just give it time to develop for you and you will see.

[anerlich]

Are there any deadly techniques you can practiced

I used to practise these, but then I ran out of training partners. Too many funerals, too.

If you want to prepare yourself to deal with violent crime, read "Strong on Defense" by Sanford Strong. It will prepare you far better than all the WC training will.

[taojkd]

Get a gun.


Else, train harder, spar more people.

[Yoshiyahu]

The first guy much of what he wrote i didn't understand. But you are pretty clear and concise. Yes I agree certain parts of WC does develop you. But there are also other parts which may not be taught or shared with others. For instance Yuen Kay San was very skilled with his hands. He also was very skilled with Iron Sand Palm. Austin Goh is known for both his skills at chi sau and being able to break six bricks with his palm.



Bruce lee was known for being able to do push ups on his fingers. If you can do many many push ups on your fingers...eventually your fingers will be able to push through someone. Yuen Kay San also was skilled with piercing his hand through a sand bag and grabbing a pebble inside.

not many people can puncture a sand bag today with their fingers?


But these are some of the points or star developments i am alluding too!


The overall training makes WCK as deadly as it can be.

Bong-lap forearm conditioning helps make hard gan & dip saus etc. then the wall bag to make your short range strikes more powerful/ deadly. Not to mention Dummy work.... WCK is a fully rounded system overall just give it time to develop for you and you will see.

[Katsu Jin Ken]

Yosh- just to be clear you want to learn certain WC techniques that are deadly or learn to defend against a gun, knife, bat ect..???

as far as deadly like "dim mak" style things i have no idea like joint locks pressure points?

as for the latter, if you want to learn to defend against a knife, what we do is get some washable markers and white t shirts, a dot is a stab wound, slash is well a cut obviously, grab a couple markers and go at it

for a club like a bat we use a whiffle ball bat, it stings but not too bad

[sanjuro_ronin]

The first guy much of what he wrote i didn't understand. But you are pretty clear and concise. Yes I agree certain parts of WC does develop you. But there are also other parts which may not be taught or shared with others. For instance Yuen Kay San was very skilled with his hands. He also was very skilled with Iron Sand Palm. Austin Goh is known for both his skills at chi sau and being able to break six bricks with his palm.



Bruce lee was known for being able to do push ups on his fingers. If you can do many many push ups on your fingers...eventually your fingers will be able to push through someone. Yuen Kay San also was skilled with piercing his hand through a sand bag and grabbing a pebble inside.

not many people can puncture a sand bag today with their fingers?


But these are some of the points or star developments i am alluding too!

I would take certain feats with a grain of salt.
Some may be exagerated and others may require far more "forging" than you need/willing to do.

[Yoshiyahu]

Yes I agree one should work on defense against attackers. This great, But Also what about making your techniques more deadly. Now of course you to do jointlocks,pressure point striking and arm breaks.

But what about developing deadly kungs.

Like with tiger they train their hands to rip and tear flesh namely the throat.

Eagle calw trains their hands to crush your throat.

Crane trains their bils.

Karate trains their hands to break bricks

An of course Northen Shaolin trains Iron palm techniques that render similiar results as Karate.

So wouldn't your WC be more complete by adding in the ability of certain Kungs?

For instance:
Iron Palm!
Rock Crushing Fingers(Body Piercing Fingers)!

I am not sold on Dim mak. I could be wrong I think Dim Mak is just a myth. I dont believe in the mystical mumbo jumbo...last time I check Dim mak was a japanese word?



Yosh- just to be clear you want to learn certain WC techniques that are deadly or learn to defend against a gun, knife, bat ect..???

as far as deadly like "dim mak" style things i have no idea like joint locks pressure points?

as for the latter, if you want to learn to defend against a knife, what we do is get some washable markers and white t shirts, a dot is a stab wound, slash is well a cut obviously, grab a couple markers and go at it

for a club like a bat we use a whiffle ball bat, it stings but not too bad

[t_niehoff]

"Deadly" is fantasy stuff.

Concern yourself with developing solid fundamental skills.

[Yoshiyahu]

After you have worked decades on developing a strong foundation and strong basics? Would it be safe to say its okay to start developing or conditioning yourself for more lethal techniques. What I am saying is there are conditioning techniques use to make your Art more lethal. Like iron palm...should this stuff be ignored. or should it be taught?


A tiger with out claws and teeth is defensless against another tiger who has claws and teeth.



"Deadly" is fantasy stuff.

Concern yourself with developing solid fundamental skills.

[m1k3]

The problem with deadly techniques is how do you know they work and how do you train them.

If someone says strike A against body part B will kill someone how do you know it will work? Can't go around killing your training partners and most places frown on killing strangers.

But, you can train good fundamentals, things that work because you know they work. A punch to the face hurts, because you have felt it and have done it to others. An armbar works because you have felt someone take you arm right to the edge of breaking and you have done it to others. A choke works because in rolling you have probably choked someone until they saw stars or passed out and have had the same done to you.

This goes for a lot of your basic techniques. They work, you know they work and there is a high percentage you can pull them off.

Worry about learning deadly techniques which usually are low percentage, dangerous or impossible to train and questionable from a legal standpoint is time that could be spent working on something that you know works.

Just my 2 cents.

[Chazmek]

I am not sold on Dim mak. I could be wrong I think Dim Mak is just a myth. I dont believe in the mystical mumbo jumbo...last time I check Dim mak was a japanese word?

Dim Mak is Cantonese
The Mandarin is Dien Xue.
Japanese styles have something similar...I think the word is Atemi...I could be wrong...

Regardless, it's nothing magical or mythical.

The body works in certain ways, and there are many techniques that are designed to disrupt the body's functions.

Snake would be a nearly useless style if pressure point strikes did not work.

[Chazmek]

The problem with deadly techniques is how do you know they work and how do you train them.

If someone says strike A against body part B will kill someone how do you know it will work? Can't go around killing your training partners and most places frown on killing strangers.

But, you can train good fundamentals, things that work because you know they work. A punch to the face hurts, because you have felt it and have done it to others. An armbar works because you have felt someone take you arm right to the edge of breaking and you have done it to others. A choke works because in rolling you have probably choked someone until they saw stars or passed out and have had the same done to you.

This goes for a lot of your basic techniques. They work, you know they work and there is a high percentage you can pull them off.

Worry about learning deadly techniques which usually are low percentage, dangerous or impossible to train and questionable from a legal standpoint is time that could be spent working on something that you know works.

Just my 2 cents.

"Dim Mak" isn't all about killing strikes and deadly stuff.
It's about using pressure points to decrease your opponent's ability to react effectively. Many of the techniques can be done in controlled sparring and used safely while still having their intended effect. Yes they can cause serious health issues, but even in a real fight I would hesitate to use any of the strikes that are said to be "deadly". I've never tried them, so I don't know for sure if they work. But I've read enough literature on the subject, and been taught by people that I respect, so I'm not about to test it on people I care about.

[Hendrik]

The first guy much of what he wrote i didn't understand. -------


That shows your boundary.





But you are pretty clear and concise. ------

By evident, what you think WCK is might not be what it is.






Yes I agree certain parts of WC does develop you. -----


WC does not develop you. WC lead you to be able to apply yourself fully and effectively. WC is just a tool.





But there are also other parts which may not be taught or shared with others. For instance Yuen Kay San was very skilled with his hands. He also was very skilled with Iron Sand Palm. Austin Goh is known for both his skills at chi sau and being able to break six bricks with his palm. ------


You can have weapon such as as deadly as bazoka in your hand and end up dead because you dont know what is reality, how to think, what to attract.

Thus, get your mind straight before thinking.



Finally, all this Making your WC deadly thought are just sick and negative. Similar to a person if he keep thinking of stealling others stuffs, he will end up thinking every one is trying to steal his stuffs.

Those who got into depression is keep thinking depression thoughts.


Going this path is wasting life and misleading which create big problem for oneself. because this is the way how one trap one into a self created tunel vision.


As the ADVANCE WINGCHUN PRINCIPLE said " Mo Yieng Poh Choong" or No shadow/dynamic broke(let go) your center ( reference, mind set, tunnel vision) Until able to do that one is just a robot program to do a certain task call Tan Sau.. Bong....etc set up to attack center line if there is any (and it got confuse if there is none). How can those type of Dummy works well?

[t_niehoff]

"Dim Mak" isn't all about killing strikes and deadly stuff.
It's about using pressure points to decrease your opponent's ability to react effectively. Many of the techniques can be done in controlled sparring and used safely while still having their intended effect. Yes they can cause serious health issues, but even in a real fight I would hesitate to use any of the strikes that are said to be "deadly". I've never tried them, so I don't know for sure if they work. But I've read enough literature on the subject, and been taught by people that I respect, so I'm not about to test it on people I care about.

Dim mak is fantasy.

[Chazmek]

Dim mak is fantasy.

That's a common opinion, which is fine.
With a logical mind, I can no longer hold that opinion due to personal experience.
Among those experiences: I've been knocked out by someone simply holding my wrist firmly and poking my arm in a certain place. I didn't understand it at all at the time, and I'm still not very clear on the HOW of it, but I can no longer deny that there is definitely some truth mixed in with the fantasy.

[t_niehoff]

That's a common opinion, which is fine.
With a logical mind, I can no longer hold that opinion due to personal experience.
Among those experiences: I've been knocked out by someone simply holding my wrist firmly and poking my arm in a certain place. I didn't understand it at all at the time, and I'm still not very clear on the HOW of it, but I can no longer deny that there is definitely some truth mixed in with the fantasy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlF937SmcUE

People trick themselves all the time. Those people would swear that their teacher's chi was propelling them across the room. It's called suggestion.

[m1k3]

That's a common opinion, which is fine.
With a logical mind, I can no longer hold that opinion due to personal experience.
Among those experiences: I've been knocked out by someone simply holding my wrist firmly and poking my arm in a certain place. I didn't understand it at all at the time, and I'm still not very clear on the HOW of it, but I can no longer deny that there is definitely some truth mixed in with the fantasy.

Its called hypnosis. You believed (even if it was just at the subconscious level) that it would work, so it did. The people who do this are very good at setting up a receptive state in the subject (you). It is not a criticism of you, you were put into a position were an outcome was presented to you in such a way as to induce a state of belief in you. It is a common technique for mentalists, hypnotists and true believers.

When this people attempt to do this to people who are skeptics and don't have time to prepare the subject the result is failure, although they have lots of excuses. There is a video in one of the threads of a hypnotist posing as a sifu doing no punch knockout and the random person from the class dropping in pain.

[m1k3]

I meant no touch punch in the above statement. Sorry.:)

[Chazmek]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlF937SmcUE

People trick themselves all the time. Those people would swear that their teacher's chi was propelling them across the room. It's called suggestion.

Yeah, I've seen alot of Aikido schools that have devolved into this sort of thing. It's actually pretty entertaining.
And like I said, my statements are based on personal experience and teachings from people I trust and respect.
I won't make claims about the actual workings of Dim Mak; whether it is qi, magic, psychology, or whatever. I can only relate my own thoughts on the matter.
For those willing to do the research, there's a lot of information out there regarding the neurological systems of the human body. Even if all the Dim Mak stuff with the five elements and the meridians is crap, and it's really just ways of manipulating nerve pathways, it's still effective. Why does it matter if you think of it in terms of qi?
Whether you believe gravity is an effect of an object's mass, or you believe it is caused by a magical god that lives under the earth's crust, it doesn't change the fact that the apple will fall on your head when it is disconnected from the tree.

[t_niehoff]

There is a very simple test for whether something is fantasy or not: have you seen it for yourself done in fighting against competent fighters not associated with the claim/claimant?

[Chazmek]

Its called hypnosis. You believed (even if it was just at the subconscious level) that it would work, so it did. The people who do this are very good at setting up a receptive state in the subject (you). It is not a criticism of you, you were put into a position were an outcome was presented to you in such a way as to induce a state of belief in you. It is a common technique for mentalists, hypnotists and true believers.

When this people attempt to do this to people who are skeptics and don't have time to prepare the subject the result is failure, although they have lots of excuses. There is a video in one of the threads of a hypnotist posing as a sifu doing no punch knockout and the random person from the class dropping in pain.

If I had been told what was supposed to happen before the technique was done, I could definitely understand that point of view. Unfortunately (for me at the time at least) it was more along the lines of:
Me: What's the application of this technique in this form?
Sigung: Here, I'll show you.
*grab, poke*
*strong electrical-like shock feeling in my arm and along the side of my face*
*I wake up a few seconds later*
Me: What the hell was that?!

[Chazmek]

There is a very simple test for whether something is fantasy or not: have you seen it for yourself done in fighting against competent fighters not associated with the claim/claimant?

The specific example I'm relating happened during my second class with that instructor, which was the third time I had actually met the man in person.
It did happen to me personally, and I don't think I would have a reason to fake it.

[Chazmek]

I meant no touch punch in the above statement. Sorry.:)

Yeah, as far as I know, that stuff is still in the realm of Star Wars.

"I find your lack of faith disturbing!"

lol!

[m1k3]

The specific example I'm relating happened during my second class with that instructor, which was the third time I had actually met the man in person.
It did happen to me personally, and I don't think I would have a reason to fake it.

You didn't fake it, it was real to you. As T said it is suggestion. The suggestion was set up to a degree because you were in a kung fu class that obviously does dim mak, the instructor, an authority figure, said let me show you something, and I bet there were several students, who had seen this before, watching with knowing looks on their faces.

So you were set up, just because the clues were non verbal doesn't make them any less powerful.

[m1k3]

Oh yeah, there are places where there are nerves near the surface of your body and they can hurt like a b1tch. I was taught some of them when I was in the Marines and received some training to be a prisoner escort. We simply called them pressure points and pain compliance.

[Chazmek]

You didn't fake it, it was real to you. As T said it is suggestion. The suggestion was set up to a degree because you were in a kung fu class that obviously does dim mak, the instructor, an authority figure, said let me show you something, and I bet there were several students, who had seen this before, watching with knowing looks on their faces.

So you were set up, just because the clues were non verbal doesn't make them any less powerful.

Actually, it's just a basic Shaolin class. Dim Mak isn't part of the standard curiculum (sp?). It was being held in the gym of a local rec center and I was the only student present (private lesson).

Regardless, I would love to know how to give non-verbal cues like that. If that's how it works, it doesn't make a difference to me. It's a neat trick no matter how you look at it.

[Chazmek]

Oh yeah, there are places where there are nerves near the surface of your body and they can hurt like a b1tch. I was taught some of them when I was in the Marines and received some training to be a prisoner escort. We simply called them pressure points and pain compliance.

So the marines are teaching super secret Dim Mak!? :eek:

Yeah, I don't think there's anything special about it. It just takes training.

[Yoshiyahu]

How do you know they work? Well simple. You build build. No need to test them on people. Stack six to eight bricks. When your Iron Palms is strong enough to smash them all. Then you know you have that ability to hit someone on top of the head or the back of head with that same force. As for Bui Tze strikes. When your able to thrust your fingers through a heavy bag of sand or punch your fist through a punching bag and leave a hole. You know you can do serious damage. What we call demostrations of people breaking things with their strength are really just a guage to see where your progress is. No need to hit someone in the face with an inch punch to see if you got enough power. If you have telephone book on somes chest then you measure your progress by hitting the phone book with causing serious damage. Why go around killing people...thats not the intent for inquiring this skill.

As for practice. I practice shooting my Nine at a target. Not at people. No need to shoot people. Thats what targets are for. As for practicing with a knife. I can use a rubber or wooden knife. No need to really stab my training partner or stranger. No need to use my gun,knife, or WC deadly techniques unless I am in sitituation where I can't reach my nine or shot gun to kill the person who is trying to kill me. But why buy a gun? Just in case! why buy knives? just in case. Why train lethal techniques just in case I am in life or death sitiutation me against them. its me or them. i choose me!

I know if hit someone hard enough in the back head with the torque punch it will kill them. I don't do that though. I have had no need to do. I learn how to rake the face and rake the throat but I haven't done it to my training partners. No need to. You acquire the skill for just in case. But don't go around using it on people...

i know how to chain punch people in the nose until it bleeds. But do i do strangers or training partner like that?



The problem with deadly techniques is how do you know they work and how do you train them.

If someone says strike A against body part B will kill someone how do you know it will work? Can't go around killing your training partners and most places frown on killing strangers.

But, you can train good fundamentals, things that work because you know they work. A punch to the face hurts, because you have felt it and have done it to others. An armbar works because you have felt someone take you arm right to the edge of breaking and you have done it to others. A choke works because in rolling you have probably choked someone until they saw stars or passed out and have had the same done to you.

This goes for a lot of your basic techniques. They work, you know they work and there is a high percentage you can pull them off.

Worry about learning deadly techniques which usually are low percentage, dangerous or impossible to train and questionable from a legal standpoint is time that could be spent working on something that you know works.

Just my 2 cents.


Okay Chazmek I stand corrected!~~~ Thankyou...

how would snake not work with out if pressure points strikes don't work...what do you need for pressure point strikes to work?????




Dim Mak is Cantonese
The Mandarin is Dien Xue.
Japanese styles have something similar...I think the word is Atemi...I could be wrong...

Regardless, it's nothing magical or mythical.

The body works in certain ways, and there are many techniques that are designed to disrupt the body's functions.

Snake would be a nearly useless style if pressure point strikes did not work.


your right WC is also not all about killing. But there is small aspect concerning killing techniques and conditioning needed to so in case your in fight to the death against some gangster,robbery,burlar,rapist,assasin,drug dealer or thug. But know its not just about killing your correct. I am simply illuminating an aspect few people seem to mention!


"Dim Mak" isn't all about killing strikes and deadly stuff.
It's about using pressure points to decrease your opponent's ability to react effectively. Many of the techniques can be done in controlled sparring and used safely while still having their intended effect. Yes they can cause serious health issues, but even in a real fight I would hesitate to use any of the strikes that are said to be "deadly". I've never tried them, so I don't know for sure if they work. But I've read enough literature on the subject, and been taught by people that I respect, so I'm not about to test it on people I care about.

[Chazmek]

how would snake not work with out if pressure points strikes don't work...what do you need for pressure point strikes to work?????

From my understanding, Snake does not rely on hard bludgeoning techniques in order to neutralize an opponent. Strikes are aimed at specific parts of the body that cause unconscious reflex reactions (like hitting your knee with the rubber thingy at the doctor's office), intense pain or numbness (your "funny bone" or ulnar nerve is a good example), or knock-outs (like I described earlier). It will still use throws and certain types of chin'na, and the basic levels still used closed-fist strikes. But it would be really difficult to win a fight using the soft, jabby pokes that Snake is known for if the points you were hitting didn't have any effect. Sure you can still poke someone in the eyes or the throat or the groin, but if a style only has a few viable targets that it can effectively damage on an opponent, it's not a very practical style.
And yes, you could train your hands to bust through concrete and sand bags so you didn't need to worry about where you hit someone, but it's really difficult to condition up to that level and maintain the sensitivity required for stuff like Sticky Hands (which Snake uses extensively).

As far as "what you need for pressure point strikes to work", it doesn't take much.
There's no secret to it. Most of the points are obvious if you know your anatomy: major nerve branches, eyes, muscle insertion points, arterial sinuses, joint connective tissue, etc.
Once you know where to hit, it's just a matter of training your hands to be able to strike with the finger-tips (allowing you to concentrate the pressue into a much smaller area) and learning how to strike the points in the right way so as to cause the desired effect.

[Jansingsang]

All this Dim mak / chi talk can lead you into Big trouble!

As Bruce lee said

"Don't waste yourself " :D:D


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I

[sanjuro_ronin]

Dim mak is fantasy.

My Dim Mak isn't.

[Chazmek]

My Dim Mak isn't.

Even though all the ladies fantasize about your Dim Mak?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Even though all the ladies fantasize about your Dim Mak?

*cue the 70's porn music*

[m1k3]

Actually, it's just a basic Shaolin class. Dim Mak isn't part of the standard curiculum (sp?). It was being held in the gym of a local rec center and I was the only student present (private lesson).

Regardless, I would love to know how to give non-verbal cues like that. If that's how it works, it doesn't make a difference to me. It's a neat trick no matter how you look at it.



Check out this video of Derren Brown. He is a hypnotist and does not do kung fu. He is also a skeptic who likes to debunk a lot of the BS for these types of beliefs.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBXXA5xhcQ0

[Chazmek]

All this Dim mak / chi talk can lead you into Big trouble!

As Bruce lee said

"Don't waste yourself " :D:D


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I

lol, yeah, the Kiai stuff is pretty strange.
I'm interested to know if that guy got his $5k.

[sanjuro_ronin]

On a serious note, Dim Mak and vital point striking is NOT fraud, anyone that have ever fought anyone knows that hitting the right spot is much better than hitting the wrong spot.
The issues of WHY some points work are irrelevant because there are more than just 1 reason why they do.
Dim Mak is a tool, just like IP and just like strength training, there is nothing mysterious about it at all, you just need to have the actual SKILL to apply it in combat.

[Chazmek]

Check out this video of Derren Brown. He is a hypnotist and does not do kung fu. He is also a skeptic who likes to debunk a lot of the BS for these types of beliefs.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBXXA5xhcQ0

That is awesome!
The guy doubles over and looks like he's about to throw up!

Like I said, even if it's just psychology tricks, I'm still interested in learning it.

[t_niehoff]

On a serious note, Dim Mak and vital point striking is NOT fraud, anyone that have ever fought anyone knows that hitting the right spot is much better than hitting the wrong spot.
The issues of WHY some points work are irrelevant because there are more than just 1 reason why they do.
Dim Mak is a tool, just like IP and just like strength training, there is nothing mysterious about it at all, you just need to have the actual SKILL to apply it in combat.

Dim mak isn't a tool, it is a fantasy.

Hitting or applying pressure to weak points of the human body isn't dim mak. Dim mak is a whole lot more. And that whole lot more is nonsense.

Of course all fighters take advantage of the human bodies natural weaknesses. Boxers don't use dim mak; bjj fighters don't use dim mak. But both try to take advantage of their opponent's weaknesses.

Moreover, it is important why things work.

[t_niehoff]

That is awesome!
The guy doubles over and looks like he's about to throw up!

Like I said, even if it's just psychology tricks, I'm still interested in learning it.

Why? Do you want to become a stage hypnotist or just impress your friends? These tricks have no value from a martial arts/fighting standpoint.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Dim mak isn't a tool, it is a fantasy.

Hitting or applying pressure to weak points of the human body isn't dim mak. Dim mak is a whole lot more. And that whole lot more is nonsense.

Of course all fighters take advantage of the human bodies natural weaknesses. Boxers don't use dim mak; bjj fighters don't use dim mak. But both try to take advantage of their opponent's weaknesses.

Moreover, it is important why things work.

Your view of DM and mine aren't and where never, the same.
To me DM is like Atemi Waza and like Kyusho-jutsu and is not just an empty handed sub-system.

[Taryn P.]

Why? Do you want to become a stage hypnotist or just impress your friends? These tricks have no value from a martial arts/fighting standpoint.

Psychology tricks can be very useful tools in a spar or a real fight. Any tool that helps achieve your objective is a useful one.

[Chazmek]

Psychology tricks can be very useful tools in a spar or a real fight. Any tool that helps achieve your objective is a useful one.

Aw, she beat me to it. :D

Yes, useful tools should not be discarded simply because you find out that they work differently than you originally thought.

[Chazmek]

Dim mak isn't a tool, it is a fantasy.

Hitting or applying pressure to weak points of the human body isn't dim mak. Dim mak is a whole lot more. And that whole lot more is nonsense.

Of course all fighters take advantage of the human bodies natural weaknesses. Boxers don't use dim mak; bjj fighters don't use dim mak. But both try to take advantage of their opponent's weaknesses.

Moreover, it is important why things work.

So what is Dim Mak, if not using pressure points on the human body?
Am I missing something?

[Xiao3 Meng4]

Psychology tricks can be very useful tools in a spar or a real fight. Any tool that helps achieve your objective is a useful one.

"These aren't the droids you're looking for."

[Matrix]

Psychology tricks can be very useful tools in a spar or a real fight. Any tool that helps achieve your objective is a useful one.There's definitely psychology involved in fighting. However, it appears that in this case the subject was hypnotized in advance of what we are seeing in the video. That's not quite the same thing.

[t_niehoff]

So what is Dim Mak, if not using pressure points on the human body?
Am I missing something?

Yes.

If all dim mak was was effectively hitting or grabbing the *genuine* weak points of the body, then boxers, MT fighters, bjj fighters, etc. would all be doing dim mak. They're not. But they are attacking the *genuine* weak points of the body.

Why don't boxers, for example, have seminars on attacking "pressure points"? Why aren't there articles in boxing magazines on attacking "pressure points"? And so on.

Dim mak is a fantasy associated with attacking the weak points of the human body. "Pressure points" is part of that nonsense.

[Hendrik]

When I was a young teenager, all of these Making your WC deadly was a hot stuffs. At that time, Ko matches and MT challengers and Kyokushin world tournament were hot for young people.


So, is it true there is Dim Mark? yes.

So, is it true there are people who train to penetrate rattan body guard in TCMA LoiToi? yes. it is true.

So, is it true there are different method of training the iron shirt or iron body or iron palm? yes. It is true.

and in fact, there were a TCMA fighter later was caught due to certain illegal issue by law enforcement, but because his iron body, the law officers has to ask for advice from other TCMA sifus to break that seal of iron body, until then the person can take the law officer's beating with ease.



So, in WC does it have special power? such as how the story of IpMan broken the Qi seal of the lady....ect. Yes, those exist but those knowledge are rare today.



Some days, It is better off all of those stuffs were forgotten or dis believe because one less weapon in this world is better then people keep searching for more and more powerfull weapons.



On the other hand, as I pointed out above. why does one want to put those survival thoughts in one's mind, pretend one is trap..... and think about making themself deadly? Those thoughts are just so terrible that usually it harm oneself before others.


as for those dim mark, those iron palm..... iron shin training..... with today's human taking mostly process food, chances are those training could harm one more then benifit it. Our body today is like a weak plastic compare with those who eat nature food decades ago or our great grandmother time.



I really concern about this type of topic disccusion because it could mislead one badly.

and as for the Dim Mark stuffs? well, dont try it because there often a subtle effect which could cause long term sickness if it was not totally clear out. western medicine cant detect it and clear it.


Since everyone has thier karma, no one could change others life. However, I post this above here hoping some one who read this know. dont walk this path for it is not a benificial one but could cause serious issues and result in consequence too heavy for one's whole life.

playing with weapon is nothing fun, and the ancient chinese says that " those who is good in swiming will die drowning. Let's just hope constructive and positive come out from these discussion.


Best Regards

[Shadow_warrior8]

Yes.

If all dim mak was was effectively hitting or grabbing the *genuine* weak points of the body, then boxers, MT fighters, bjj fighters, etc. would all be doing dim mak. They're not. But they are attacking the *genuine* weak points of the body.

Why don't boxers, for example, have seminars on attacking "pressure points"? Why aren't there articles in boxing magazines on attacking "pressure points"? And so on.

Dim mak is a fantasy associated with attacking the weak points of the human body. "Pressure points" is part of that nonsense.

TCMA is all nonsense to you.
To me this line of thought, with your ability to speculate without any experience in learning TCMA, your belief that you know without training directly, and you have a clue about TCMA, that is fantasy.

All this talk about suggestion, hynotism, mind science to explain TCMA phenomena is just wild speculation. Again most people just watch television and quote darren brown, chris angel, magic shows. Showmanship, has nothing to do with TCMA
Have you been even a part of this kind of showmanship? Or been hypnotise? Or given suggestions so you were Koed in a demo? Please share your personal experience.
What do people use as reference? People like Geogre Dillman and his flawed public demo and silly reasons of toes nullifying Tien Hsieh. Or Ashida Kim and his silly demo on a animal trap, calling it dim Mak.
Why has no body quoted any reference from China? Because most people have not gone to search the source. Everyone is a youtube master, I see therefore I know.

Here, dim mak is shown on an animal and effects recorded, let me see someone explain how the pig was hynotise, given suggestion to lie down etc....
http://www.56.com/u59/v_MjYwOTEzNDQ.html

Weak skeletal structure is not pressure points, example your jaw.
Hsieh Point- One can strike Stomach 5 and create damage.
Skeletal structure- When boxers hit the the jaw, it creates shock to the brain, hence KO.
Not the same as hitting a point.
And Hsieh points are not just used for striking, also used for grabbing and seizing.

Some styles are like a huge bat hitting you.
Some styles are like a pin stabbing you. Others like a knife. It depends on what weapon you use, fist, fingers, phoenix eye etc....
And your whole body is a weapon- known as 7 stars.

Tien Hsieh is not exclusive to China
Bujinkan Koto ryu Kyusho/Atemi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R96rWOoXU-U
kyusho Oyata
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILwSjm44Z7Q
India Martial art - Kalaripayattu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B09zqMiA4k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pg-aBGF7mA0

Dont start saying their culture and beliefs are nonsense too.

When I go to bangkok to do muay thai or drop in the local gym for some boxing with the guys, I love how they train- with Heart, and they dont go around bad mouthing others, or saying how superior they are, or other arts suck. They train with heart. They realise they dont know it all, and other people have differences in interpretation of what works.

You are using a english dictionary to read chinese culture and words. If you think one can get somewhere this way, IMHO, this is fantasy.

[Yoshiyahu]

How to you train your hands so your fingers can strike pressure and render the power the through the fingers?



From my understanding, Snake does not rely on hard bludgeoning techniques in order to neutralize an opponent. Strikes are aimed at specific parts of the body that cause unconscious reflex reactions (like hitting your knee with the rubber thingy at the doctor's office), intense pain or numbness (your "funny bone" or ulnar nerve is a good example), or knock-outs (like I described earlier). It will still use throws and certain types of chin'na, and the basic levels still used closed-fist strikes. But it would be really difficult to win a fight using the soft, jabby pokes that Snake is known for if the points you were hitting didn't have any effect. Sure you can still poke someone in the eyes or the throat or the groin, but if a style only has a few viable targets that it can effectively damage on an opponent, it's not a very practical style.
And yes, you could train your hands to bust through concrete and sand bags so you didn't need to worry about where you hit someone, but it's really difficult to condition up to that level and maintain the sensitivity required for stuff like Sticky Hands (which Snake uses extensively).

As far as "what you need for pressure point strikes to work", it doesn't take much.
There's no secret to it. Most of the points are obvious if you know your anatomy: major nerve branches, eyes, muscle insertion points, arterial sinuses, joint connective tissue, etc.
Once you know where to hit, it's just a matter of training your hands to be able to strike with the finger-tips (allowing you to concentrate the pressue into a much smaller area) and learning how to strike the points in the right way so as to cause the desired effect.

[t_niehoff]

How to you train your hands so your fingers can strike pressure and render the power the through the fingers?

You can't. Finger strikes are more fantasy. The biu jee (motion and form) has nothing to do with striking with the fingers. The only thing you'll get from trying finger strikes in fighting is jammed/broken fingers.

[Yoshiyahu]

Why did Bruce lee practice Push Ups on his fingers, Thrusting his fingers into a Bucket of gravel and hitting Targets with his fingers?


I am just woundering if Bruce Lee was fantasy based too?




You can't. Finger strikes are more fantasy. The biu jee (motion and form) has nothing to do with striking with the fingers. The only thing you'll get from trying finger strikes in fighting is jammed/broken fingers.

[Chazmek]

How to you train your hands so your fingers can strike pressure and render the power the through the fingers?

There are two main ways of learning how to strike with the fingers: internal and external.

External will usually render the most quickly-noticeable results, but can often lead to decreased sensitivity and the possibility of damaged fingers if mistakes happen during training.

Internal finger training involves various types of qigong that work on your projection and alignment.

After sufficient training in either (or both), it is really quite easy to use finger strikes, even in full-speed combat.

But, like all conditioning methods, it does take time. If finger strikes are applied with power before you have the proper strength or technique, yes, you will get the jammed fingers that are apparently the result of "fantasy" techniques.

As I said before, it is very common for people to see Dim Mak as fantasy or mind games, but, in my personal experience, there is definitely something to it. How much of the ancient Chinese theories are actually correct and how much is just mythical mumbo jumbo, I can't say for sure. But at least some part of it works and can be utilized as an effective tool in the martial arts.

[Hardwork108]

GOOD POST AND THANK YOU.:)



TCMA is all nonsense to you.
To me this line of thought, with your ability to speculate without any experience in learning TCMA, your belief that you know without training directly, and you have a clue about TCMA, that is fantasy.

Very true. I have across many people like him here in the forums. They take a few superficial aspects from kung fu to the ring together with a partner and then hit each other in the head for 10 minutes and call it "functional" kung fu training....lol.


All this talk about suggestion, hynotism, mind science to explain TCMA phenomena is just wild speculation.

Shadow, believe me when I say that in the West the confused people always speculate. ;)


Again most people just watch television and quote darren brown, chris angel, magic shows. Showmanship, has nothing to do with TCMA
Have you been even a part of this kind of showmanship? Or been hypnotise? Or given suggestions so you were Koed in a demo? Please share your personal experience.
I don't know about you but I am not holding my breath for t_niehoff's explanations.


What do people use as reference? People like Geogre Dillman and his flawed public demo and silly reasons of toes nullifying Tien Hsieh. Or Ashida Kim and his silly demo on a animal trap, calling it dim Mak.
Why has no body quoted any reference from China? Because most people have not gone to search the source.

That is because most people making money from TCMA here in the West are afraid of the source. The source will show most of the Western "kung fu kings" to be con-men or at least ignorant.


Everyone is a youtube master, I see therefore I know.

This forum is full of YouTube masters. Some even make YouTube video clips of themselves breaking slabs and "kung fu" fighting. The tragedy is that even when most of them see they don't necessarily know. Here in the west it is very difficult to find good kung fu references and when you do find real references then nobody believes what you say because everybody else seems to have bad references:confused:.


Here, dim mak is shown on an animal and effects recorded, let me see someone explain how the pig was hynotise, given suggestion to lie down etc....
http://www.56.com/u59/v_MjYwOTEzNDQ.html

T_niehoff will probably say that the pig was paid money before hand to collapse...lol.


Weak skeletal structure is not pressure points, example your jaw.
Hsieh Point- One can strike Stomach 5 and create damage.
Skeletal structure- When boxers hit the the jaw, it creates shock to the brain, hence KO.
Not the same as hitting a point.
And Hsieh points are not just used for striking, also used for grabbing and seizing.

Hence the chin-na applications in pressure point fighting. Shadow, I have noticed that some people here think that Chin-na is stand up grappling and nothing else..lol,lol.


Tien Hsieh is not exclusive to China
Bujinkan Koto ryu Kyusho/Atemi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R96rWOoXU-U
kyusho Oyata
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILwSjm44Z7Q
India Martial art - Kalaripayattu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B09zqMiA4k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pg-aBGF7mA0


Thank you for the interesting links.:)


Dont start saying their culture and beliefs are nonsense too.

Hopefully after this T_niehoff will not say anything more.


When I go to bangkok to do muay thai or drop in the local gym for some boxing with the guys, I love how they train- with Heart, and they dont go around bad mouthing others, or saying how superior they are, or other arts suck. They train with heart. They realise they dont know it all, and other people have differences in interpretation of what works.

When I lived in Brasil I came across many Brasilian Ju Jitsu people who were very respectful of kung fu. Here in the forum the story is different. They are respectful until you tell them that they are lacking in kung fu knowledge, then they show their real faces!


You are using a english dictionary to read chinese culture and words. If you think one can get somewhere this way, IMHO, this is fantasy.

And it is!

It is amazing how many people in the West have taken an enchant and rich art(s) like kung fu and turned it into a McDonald martial art. When one criticizes them, then they say that they have "improved" kung fu and made it more "modern" and some of them even go on to insult indirectly (and sometimes directly) the Chinese culture.

Quite often these are the same people that complain when I call them knuckleheads!

[Hendrik]

There are two main ways of learning how to strike with the fingers: internal and external......

.



Can you please share what you have expose to?

Best Regards

[anerlich]

I guess you have to weigh up th most effective ways of reaching your goals.

If your aim is self defence, is it gong to be a better strategy to learn effective mechanics for hitting people hard to obvious vulnerable and relatively easy to hit places (jaw, solar plexus, eyes, throat, floating rib, etc.) or to learn to "cultivate chi", strike the dim mak points accurately and/or with the right energy, etc.?

If you can't fight without the quasi-mystical stuff, you won't b able to fight with it. That's for sure.

If the touch knockout and other Dim Mak skills exist, no one on this board can explain or demonstrate them. Not to discount everyone's personal experiences, they are valid to them, but ... in the age of guns, why can't anyone demonstrate or describe exactly how this is done?

An acquaintance of mine has travelled and explored the MA's of the world for decades. He has high ranks in BN Silat and BJJ, but has studied everything. He visited George Dillman to experience his pressure point stuff. It didn't work on him, and he was told that "his chi must flow backwards, and that's why it doesn't work on you". OTOH, he visited Gene Lebell and got choked out in a few seconds.

Richard Dawkins has written at length on the reality of individual and mass hallucination.

I've posted here before lkfmdc's extract of an old Chinese newspaper article who challenged all comers for decades. He kept waiting to be Dim Mak'd but it never happened, even when he was fighting so called masters of Dim Mak. He retired undefeated, lived to old age and did not die of any mysterious diseases brought on by the Delayed Death Touch.

I've been around this stuff for a long time. Another guy I trained with could do a lot of tricks, breaking, nerve point manpulation,having stuff broken on his head with a sledgehammer, the watermelon sword cut on the stomach, lifting heavy object suspended from pins stuck through his flesh, etc. but he explained (not in detail, I'm interested in KF, not stage magic) how they were all done.

Can you explain Dim Mak to me? Demonstrate it? Really? Saying "my Master can but it's a secret" ain't good enough. There's megabucks to be made in Vegas! Immoral? Selling out? Think of all the charities he could support and good he could do with that money!

The only thing my guy (the second guy) saw that he couldn't explain was one guy he claimed to have seen in Asia who could walk and roll around on broken glass without getting cut. But I never saw that. (while this guy could do the tricks, he told more than a few porkies and was not a particularly good citizen in his personal life).

My first instructor was EXTREMELY good at attacking nerve points with Chin-na on the human body. Head, torso, arms, legs.. Being his uke in demo's was agony. But this is not Dim Mak and he will tell you that.

Can you do it? Explain how it's done?

[Chazmek]

Can you please share what you have expose to?

Best Regards

My own training progessed as follows:

External training
-Striking repeatedly into a container of sand or small rocks with the finger tips. Beginning slowly and gradually increasing the speed of the strikes as you improve.
-Striking a wooden board repeatedly with the fingers. Beginning very lightly with a focus on proper structure and alignment of the fingers, slowly increasing the strength of the strikes.
-Hammering nails about half way into a piece of wood and then trying to pull them out with the thumb, index finger, and middle finger. As you get stronger, pound the nails further into the wood, making it more difficult to get a grip.
-With all of these techniques, make sure to quickly treat any cuts and bruises you acquire, and do not try to increase the speed or strength too soon. These take time.

My internal training didn't have anything specific to finger strikes.
The only internal training I've done extensively is Eight Brocades, Marrow Washing, Tendon Exchanging, and Five Organ Breathing. Whether or not these had anything to do with actual conditioning and martial arts training, I can't say for sure, but it certainly can't hurt.
I have heard of several "Internal Techniques" that focus on improving finger strength and projection, but I have not been taught the specifics of these and can only speculate on their effectiveness.

[Chazmek]

I guess you have to weigh up th most effective ways of reaching your goals.
If you can't fight without the quasi-mystical stuff, you won't b able to fight with it. That's for sure.

You are correct.
In my opinion, if you just want to learn to defend yourself, go learn Krav Maga, those guys are awesome!


He retired undefeated, lived to old age and di not die of any mysterious diseases brought on by the Delayed Death Touch.

The "delayed death" stuff is probably just myth. If someone dies of kidney failure a week after taking a phoenix-eye fist to the lower back, that would be obvious. But all the talk of "exactly this many days after being poked here you will get terribly sick and unless you get poked in this other place to reverse the effect you will die" was probably just made up to scare opponents and bring in ignorant students.


Can you explain Dim Mak to me? Demonstrate it? Really? Saying "my Master can but it's a secret" ain't good enough.
I've done my best to impart my own knowledge and experience on the subject in my posts above. So far, all I can do is cause opponents to experience reflexive muscle spasms, lingering pain/numbness, and occasionally loss of balance after being hit in certain points. I have not practiced knocking people out, shutting down certain vital organs, or killing them. That stuff sounds too dangerous to try, whether or not it really works. Even if it's just a bunch of crap, I don't want to take the chance with the people I care about.


My first instructor was EXTREMELY good at attacking nerve points with Chin-na on the human body. Head, torso, arms, legs.. Being his uke in demo's was agony. But this is not Dim Mak.

I would call that Dim Mak; using pressure points (either grabbing or striking) to give yourself an advantage in a fight.

[Yoshiyahu]

Well It seems we are way off topic. I started this thread to discuss issues of making your WC more deadly. Such as training your palms and fist to break stone. Training your fingers to pierce through flesh or damage soft parts of the body.

Learning techniques to break the neck or rip the jaw bone.

As for strikes that have delayed killing effects. It depends on persons body. Some will die from a strike that is really hard. Someone use to getting hit may not die. Some people will live a couple a days and then die. Some boxers or just really strong weight lifters have the ability to punch so hard they can actually burst your spleen or kidneys. An Example of killing someone in seven steps would be to generate enough power to fracture the ribs of your opponent and cause a floating rib to puncture their heart if they walk around too much. That is Yang Power. Somebody like Mike Tyson could hit you hard enough that he could cause your heart to be ruptured or collasp your lung. Somebody like Mike Tyson who studied iron palm or just properly conditioned his fist to hit a walk bag with steel shots could even cause your kidneys to ruptured with enough force.

Its not some mystical thought power. Its practice,conditioning and training. The reason I use these western examples is because a boxer is never going to say his power comes from Chi. Although you develop Chi from soft techniques. To deliver a blow like iron sand palm you need also Yang as well as well Yin power.

Even when some throws a punch or kick. The blows are not soft and slow. They are hard,heavy and fast. Otherwise their will no penetration,Fajin or Explosiveness. With out the power your strike is useless. Even the Chinese hit some sort of heavy bag. Be it a sand dummy,Bag of Rice or Sand and lets not forget some Kung Fu Systems hit hanging flower pots or Rice Wine juggs. When their fist were strong enough to shatter the clay works then they had power to damage. Even in Karate they hit the makawara board and break bricks. This too is developing the Chi to issue dim mak. But only after you ahve achieve the conditioning and training can you even begin to strike someone pressure points.

As for pressure points. A screw driver can be use to attack pressure points or a solid metal ball point pin. So even if you use something like Phillips head screwdriver as pressure point striker you still need to use force to penetrate. Or as they say in Cantonese/Mandarin You need some FaJin(Yang).

There is no magical mystical soft touch that can kill. If there is I would love to learn it. If it works then I should be able to use it to chop wood. That way I no longer need a axe to fill the fire place with wood. If your Dim Mak doesn't work on non-living objects than it may not be dimak. The best way to demostrate dim mak would be in competition or actual match. If someone could knock someone out with Dim Mak while in a cage fight then maybe its some truth to it. When I say Dim Mak i mean magical no force or power soft and slow touch. I do not mean the real deal holyfield hits to your body or face that could kill you. Why do you think Boxers are no longer allowed to fight bare handed in the UFC. Because they could kill somebody. A really strong boxer has enough Chi and Lik in his fist that he connects to right parts of a person face or body they would eventually die from too much pressure.

True story. In my town years ago their were kids who were really in watching wrestling on television that they tried many of techniques on each other. From sleeper holds to suplexes. One kid was put to sleep until he fell unconscious. Something must have be wrong because when he went home the next day he died. His parents didn't even know that he had been put to sleep by a wrestling move earlier that day. The boy died in his sleep. I believe one kid was charge with involuntary manslaughter. By now they are adults an the charge is more than likely exspunged from his record. But was it dim mak the kid was using. Could be. Was it Chi...yes everyone has chi from the air you breathe to food you eat. You also gain chi from practice. When you practice Kung Fu,KickBoxing,BJJ, Wrestling or any other fighting style your cultivating chi.

Let me bore you with one more story. When I was alot younger I had a girlfriend who went to court for involuntary manslaugther. She fought another girl. The girl died three days later. Reason being she had contusions on her head. She received them from my Ex-Girlfriend. Now my Ex was like one hundred and ten pounds at a height about 5'3" So she wasn't a big girl. But boy did she hit hard. I know because she liked to spar. An sometimes should would let go the power. I have been hit hard by guys bigger than me before. An guys stronger than me. But she hit so hard you would see stars for a second. So I can imagine if another girl or even guy was unable to advoid being hit by her multiple times in the same spot she could possibly dim mak them too. Like the poor girl that died three days later.

Now imagine someone with enough power knock someone out or rupture a spleen. An give this person a Martial Arts style that allows them to open up their opponent for strikes like White Crane Style,Snake or Bak Mei. If this person was to attack to lets say Throat,Temples,Upper Dan Tien or some other point on the body numerous times with similiar amount of power. Can you imagine they could possibly kill that person?

Just food for thought!

My personal belief is as a followed. Most people claim that from a palm strike they can either send a Foe flying off their feet in the air or they rupture a organ.

Well to do both I sugges you do the following

1.Practice palm striking a 400lbs Heavy Sand Bag With Fajin. 1000 times a day.
(The Goal is to make bag move Further and Further each day).

2.Practice Chi Kung and Forms
(Meditate on emitting Energy through your palms)

3.Practice Iron Palm on bag
(Use beans,sand,gravel and then steel shots)

4.Start breaking bricks
(One-Two-Three-Four-Five and six bricks at one time).

5.Do one thousand push ups on bricks standing straight up a day.
(Do Every day)

6.Change your Diet
(Take Vitamin supplements-eat veggies-go organic-drink water)

7.Run Five miles a day.


If someone does the following each day. I believe personally they wont have much of a life but they will demostrate dim mak abilities in a fight. Why because they have the conditioning to do so. Is mystical No, Just hard work. That is Kung Fu!





You are correct.
In my opinion, if you just want to learn to defend yourself, go learn Krav Maga, those guys are awesome!

The "delayed death" stuff is probably just myth. If someone dies of kidney failure a week after taking a phoenix-eye fist to the lower back, that would be obvious. But all the talk of "exactly this many days after being poked here you will get terribly sick and unless you get poked in this other place to reverse the effect you will die" was probably just made up to scare opponents and bring in ignorant students.


I've done my best to impart my own knowledge and experience on the subject in my posts above. So far, all I can do is cause opponents to experience reflexive muscle spasms, lingering pain/numbness, and occasionally loss of balance after being hit in certain points. I have not practiced knocking people out, shutting down certain vital organs, or killing them. That stuff sounds too dangerous to try, whether or not it really works. Even if it's just a bunch of crap, I don't want to take the chance with the people I care about.



I would call that Dim Mak; using pressure points (either grabbing or striking) to give yourself an advantage in a fight.

[Shadow_warrior8]

Can you explain Dim Mak to me? Demonstrate it? Really? Saying "my Master can but it's a secret" ain't good enough. There's megabucks to be made in Vegas! Immoral? Selling out? Think of all the charities he could support and good he could do with that money!

My first instructor was EXTREMELY good at attacking nerve points with Chin-na on the human body. Head, torso, arms, legs.. Being his uke in demo's was agony. But this is not Dim Mak and he will tell you that.

Can you do it? Explain how it's done?

You confirmed my statement on the western world using references like Geogre Dillman to show dian hsieh doesnt exist or is bogus.

What is Dim Mak? 点穴
What does it mean? Touching points? Grabbing? Seizing? Striking?
What is Hsieh? How many can be used for MA? How many are known in TCM?
This is really too complicated to talk about in forums.

The bubishi has great info on this. Dr YANG, JWING-MING has some good info and has talked a great deal about hsieh Pressure points

If you have felt the pain in chin na nerve points, you should know its belongs the family of Hsieh striking, seizing, grabbing. Its attacking the hsieh, 穴, so how can one say its not 点穴, Dim Mak?

Not knowing the chinese word, brings fantasy ideas to people's mind, plus silly movies like bloodsport dont help.
Reading chinese through a english dictionary, it often doesnt make sense.

In asia, visiting a chinese sensei so he can do hsieh accupuncture for healing, enhancing flow of chi, or dit dat(hence the word Dit Dat Jow) for bruises, sprains is as normal as going to a western doctor. Its not so secretive as people think.

[Hendrik]

My own training progessed as follows:

External training
-Striking repeatedly into a container of sand or small rocks with the finger tips. Beginning slowly and gradually increasing the speed of the strikes as you improve.
-Striking a wooden board repeatedly with the fingers. Beginning very lightly with a focus on proper structure and alignment of the fingers, slowly increasing the strength of the strikes.
-Hammering nails about half way into a piece of wood and then trying to pull them out with the thumb, index finger, and middle finger. As you get stronger, pound the nails further into the wood, making it more difficult to get a grip.
-With all of these techniques, make sure to quickly treat any cuts and bruises you acquire, and do not try to increase the speed or strength too soon. These take time.

My internal training didn't have anything specific to finger strikes.
The only internal training I've done extensively is Eight Brocades, Marrow Washing, Tendon Exchanging, and Five Organ Breathing. Whether or not these had anything to do with actual conditioning and martial arts training, I can't say for sure, but it certainly can't hurt.
I have heard of several "Internal Techniques" that focus on improving finger strength and projection, but I have not been taught the specifics of these and can only speculate on their effectiveness.


Thanks fo the sharing.

looking at your description,
Just curious where do you from and do you practice WCK or other art or mix?

[anerlich]

You confirmed my statement


This is really too complicated to talk about in forums.

And you just confirmed MY statements! Too complicated my a$$.


In asia, visiting a chinese sensei so he can do hsieh accupuncture for healing, enhancing flow of chi, or dit dat(hence the word Dit Dat Jow) for bruises, sprains is as normal as going to a western doctor. Its not so secretive as people think.

No offence to anyone, but I've had several acupuncture treatments from Chinese-qualified acupuncturists for various ailments and found them a total waste of time and money. If you look at the links in my .sig, you'll find I have studied this stuff reasonably extensively. I have a diploma in acupressure, woo hoo.

So you can take your implications of my ignorance and stick em in your Dim Mak points.


I would call that Dim Mak; using pressure points (either grabbing or striking) to give yourself an advantage in a fight.

Chazmek, I appreciate your considered responses. I know that stuff works through pain and disruption to the nervous system. What I have problems with is people claiming that they "dsrupt the enemy's flow of chi" and such rubbish.

[couch]

No offence to anyone, but I've had several acupuncture treatments from Chinese-qualified acupuncturists for various ailments and found them a total waste of time and money. If you look at the links in my .sig, you'll find I have studied this stuff reasonably extensively.

That's really too bad. I can count on my hand how many people I haven't helped - and mostly due to them not completing a course of 10 weekly treatments.

If you're ever on the east coast of Canada - look me up. ;) I'll take good care of you.

Best.

[anerlich]

Its practice,conditioning and training.

No kidding.

[anerlich]

Couch, I appreciate the offer.

I am a skeptic, not a fundamentalist unbeliever. Happy to be proved wrong, but it is taking a while.

[clam61]

No offence to anyone, but I've had several acupuncture treatments from Chinese-qualified acupuncturists for various ailments and found them a total waste of time and money. If you look at the links in my .sig, you'll find I have studied this stuff reasonably extensively. I have a diploma in acupressure, woo hoo.

i believe you when you say nothing happened.

there is no real regulation out there.

however i can tell you taht i have had accupressure and herbal treatments 10 times for various joint and muscle injuries (some chronic that i have had for months) and i have had TREMENDOUS success, i.e. they dissappeared.

this was after i went to my orthopedic surgeon, who is a good doctor in his own right, had x rays, and he couldnt tell me what was wrong with me.

[Katsu Jin Ken]

on a different note, has anyone ever made the arguement that WC is an internal MA?

I train with a guy that learned hsing i back in Cali (his sifu was mike patterson), we've discussed internal ma and hsing i and wc has alot of things in common, do you all think wc is internal? or strictly external?

[Hendrik]

on a different note, has anyone ever made the arguement that WC is an internal MA?

I train with a guy that learned hsing i back in Cali (his sifu was mike patterson), we've discussed internal ma and hsing i and wc has alot of things in common, do you all think wc is internal? or strictly external?



what is internal?

[Liddel]

The bubishi has great info on this. Dr YANG, JWING-MING has some good info and has talked a great deal about hsieh Pressure points

If you have felt the pain in chin na nerve points, you should know its belongs the family of Hsieh striking, seizing, grabbing. Its attacking the hsieh, 穴, so how can one say its not 点穴, Dim Mak?

Dr YANG, JWING-MING is the first one to point out that it is very diffucult to apply in a fight and the moment the opponent knows ones intentions its next to impossible...moreover he says that if one is to be sucessful applying Chin Na or seizing and controlling techniques its more likely going to happen in a random street encounter rather than a face to face fight in a ring.

Perhaps its my misunderstanding of Dim Mak - but i thought Dim Mak was to stop an opponent cold - kinda like Spoks neck touch in star trek :p knocking people out disabling a limb so they cant use it etc kiss the dragon anyone :D....and Chi Na is the art of small medium and large circle seizing and controlling techniques similar to Aikido.

DREW

[Liddel]

What are some techinques that one can practice to make his WC more deadly against lets say an armed attacker when you have no weapon,can not run,can not talk your way out of a fight and know that your attacker plans on stabbing you to death.

Are there any deadly techniques you can practiced to be prepared for this one and hundred chance you have to fight for your life? Also what conditioning should one do to make their WC more lethal?

Having good technique and a solid foundation of power and movement/footwork is first and foremost...and IMO you need not have"deadly techs" just good old fashion damaging techs as you would in H2H.

Ive found through mixing with other styles that specifically train against weapons that the habbit of not using thumbs for grabbing in VT is contrary to how you would need to deal with an attacker with a knife...

That said - controlling the weapon on your outside after stepping inside is good - like stepping in chopping the swinging arm with a Guarn Sau then grabbing the arm to control followed by - stomping a knee to ground the opponent, then using footwork to circle around the opponent to lock off his ability to use the arm and weapon followed by a good head stomp is my prefered tech...which IMO is 'mostly' VT and while it can be deadly if you dont stop stomping... is enough to stop a unseasoned angry knife laymen LOL.

Anyway thats my take.

DREW

[anerlich]

however i can tell you taht i have had accupressure and herbal treatments 10 times for various joint and muscle injuries (some chronic that i have had for months) and i have had TREMENDOUS success, i.e. they dissappeared.

this was after i went to my orthopedic surgeon, who is a good doctor in his own right, had x rays, and he couldnt tell me what was wrong with me.

Lucky you.

I had back pain for fifteen years that I trained through. Like AGONY. Some days I needed a stick to walk. I had about five acupuncture treatments which only affected my bank balance. I went to multiple chiropractors who gave temporary relief. Two reasonably hard sessions I'd be hurting again.

THen I had six sessions of physiotherapy over a couple of months, and I've had maybe three reoccurrences of mild back pain in the last 18 very active years.

I've had other injuries (if you've only had them for months, they aren't really chronic IMO) get better with Advil, Voltaren, and professional sports massage.

And surgery. I had a knee arthroscopy to fix a meniscus tear in my knee a bit over a month ago. It was a great success, I'm back to hard KF, BJJ,MMA , running and kettlebells again already.

Acupuncture cannot fix structural problems (and in my case apparently, nothing else either).

I hope no one seriously contemplates going to the local acupressure guy/gal if they are diagnosed with AIDS or a brain tumour.

[anerlich]

Ive found through mixing with other styles that specifically train against weapons that the habbit of not using thumbs for grabbing in VT is contrary to how you would need to deal with an attacker with a knife...

Very true.

[Shadow_warrior8]

Dr YANG, JWING-MING is the first one to point out that it is very diffucult to apply in a fight and the moment the opponent knows ones intentions its next to impossible...moreover he says that if one is to be sucessful applying Chin Na or seizing and controlling techniques its more likely going to happen in a random street encounter rather than a face to face fight in a ring.

Perhaps its my misunderstanding of Dim Mak - but i thought Dim Mak was to stop an opponent cold - kinda like Spoks neck touch in star trek :p knocking people out disabling a limb so they cant use it etc kiss the dragon anyone :D....and Chi Na is the art of small medium and large circle seizing and controlling techniques similar to Aikido.

DREW

Yes mate, thats where the language problem comes in. To learn chinese stuff, you gotta learn chinese. Its just all very logical. Same for any language in the world.
Watching bloodsport or Ashida Kim and saying yeah thats Dim Mak, is just playschool stuff.
Like my previous mail, its about the TCM understanding of Hsieh. All things come from there, healing and attacking- it is passed down that when you learn to strike these points, you better also know how to heal these points.

Did Dr Yang reallly say that? In Bujinkan training and Aikido, Chin Na/Seizing is one of the first techniques we use. I personally believe striking and seizing go hand in hand.

[Shadow_warrior8]

And you just confirmed MY statements! Too complicated my a$$.

No offence to anyone, but I've had several acupuncture treatments from Chinese-qualified acupuncturists for various ailments and found them a total waste of time and money. If you look at the links in my .sig, you'll find I have studied this stuff reasonably extensively. I have a diploma in acupressure, woo hoo.

So you can take your implications of my ignorance and stick em in your Dim Mak points.

Chazmek, I appreciate your considered responses. I know that stuff works through pain and disruption to the nervous system. What I have problems with is people claiming that they "dsrupt the enemy's flow of chi" and such rubbish.

Very mature response.

Disrupt energy flow of chi? Are we talking about Dian Hsieh or Accupuncture for treatment? Or the study of points in the ren du er mai? When you stick a needle into a Hsieh, what does it do? If its so easy to describe in forums, please do so.

It worked for me, but I cant say it works for all people. I had a badly torn ligament in the wrist, MRI confirmed it. But I didnt want to operate on it, because western medicine says, all operations have complications and risk, and we dont really know till we go in. I didnt want to risk because I already let them reconstructure my ankle ligament, and it was a bad decision.
So through TCM herbs, qigong, accupunture, and internal stretching, its now back to almost 100% .
TCM where you come only does accupucture?

Since you think description of Dian Hsieh is so simple, why dont you translate the chinese video, and explain what is happening- which point did he strike? which meridien line was it on? What was the physical response?
I dont have a diploma in accupuncture, but it should be easy for you.

What was this that you described then?
My first instructor was EXTREMELY good at attacking nerve points with Chin-na on the human body. Head, torso, arms, legs.. Being his uke in demo's was agony. But this is not Dim Mak and he will tell you that.

Here's my answer
What is Dim Mak? 点穴
What does it mean? Touching points? Grabbing? Seizing? Striking?

[sanjuro_ronin]

In the past, the typical reason why certain Dim Mak points worked was based on "chi", the disruption and manipulation thereof.
Times change, science changes and as such, we began to understand the body better.
What was "chi", now became many other things such as automatic nerve responses, the body's own defence mechanisims working against it, nerve damage, internal damage to organs, etc,e tc.
The main issue many have with Dim Mak is its apparent uselessness in an actual fight, outside the typical points that are common in every system of H2H combat.
We must remember that Dim Mak was not only about empty hand attacks, but attacks with weapons, including specialized weapons such as needles.
Many of the DM points work ver well with a short stick or sharp object, less so with your empty hands.
Unless of course your hands have been uber forged.
Dim mak is, like IP and IV and all that, a subsystem of H2H fighting and not some stand alone "magic bullet".
In other words, the better fighter still has the edge, no matter what.

[Chazmek]

In the past, the typical reason why certain Dim Mak points worked was based on "chi", the disruption and manipulation thereof.
Times change, science changes and as such, we began to understand the body better.
What was "chi", now became many other things such as automatic nerve responses, the body's own defence mechanisims working against it, nerve damage, internal damage to organs, etc,e tc.
The main issue many have with Dim Mak is its apparent uselessness in an actual fight, outside the typical points that are common in every system of H2H combat.
We must remember that Dim Mak was not only about empty hand attacks, but attacks with weapons, including specialized weapons such as needles.
Many of the DM points work ver well with a short stick or sharp object, less so with your empty hands.
Unless of course your hands have been uber forged.
Dim mak is, like IP and IV and all that, a subsystem of H2H fighting and not some stand alone "magic bullet".
In other words, the better fighter still has the edge, no matter what.

Aw man, I go a day without logging in and Sanjuro takes the words right out of my mouth...

[m1k3]

Sanjuro, poking people just about anywhere with a sharp object usually works.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Sanjuro, poking people just about anywhere with a sharp object usually works.

Some places more than others :D

[m1k3]

This is true. :rolleyes:

[Chazmek]

Ya know, I just realized something.
Why the hell am I going around on a public forum telling people that there is no magic qi trick to Dim Mak?
Forget everything I've posted above!
Dim Mak is indeed a super secret style that is only taught by albino monks in an invisible temple on top of a mountain that only appears in our dimension every 3.14159265358979 thousand years. Once you've mastered it, you can kill people just by poking their shadow with a jade needle and making all their qi reverse its flow, causing their organs to explode with disrupted elemental energy. I have fully mastered the Dim Mak style but I have been forbidden to show it to anyone. So, don't bother trying to learn it, and don't ask me to show you, because then I'd have to kill you.
There. Now you all know the secret story of Dim Mak.
Have a nice day.

[Chazmek]

Thanks fo the sharing.

looking at your description,
Just curious where do you from and do you practice WCK or other art or mix?

I live in the Seattle area of Washington State in the USA.
I have trained in alot of different martial arts over the years, but my focus has been in Baguazhang and Shaolin Snake. I have learned some Wing Chun as well, but only as an introduction to my training in Snake.

[Yoshiyahu]

I think we should start a separate thread on this Katsu Jin Ken. I see where you going it would be a great discussion?


Are try my other thread called Chi Cultivation in Wing Chun?

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53378



on a different note, has anyone ever made the arguement that WC is an internal MA?

I train with a guy that learned hsing i back in Cali (his sifu was mike patterson), we've discussed internal ma and hsing i and wc has alot of things in common, do you all think wc is internal? or strictly external?


Dr YANG, JWING-MING is the first one to point out that it is very diffucult to apply in a fight and the moment the opponent knows ones intentions its next to impossible...moreover he says that if one is to be sucessful applying Chin Na or seizing and controlling techniques its more likely going to happen in a random street encounter rather than a face to face fight in a ring.

Perhaps its my misunderstanding of Dim Mak - but i thought Dim Mak was to stop an opponent cold - kinda like Spoks neck touch in star trek :p knocking people out disabling a limb so they cant use it etc kiss the dragon anyone :D....and Chi Na is the art of small medium and large circle seizing and controlling techniques similar to Aikido.

DREW


You are right Chin Na is not the same as Dim Mak. Dim Mak is like mike tyson hitting you in face with out boxing gloves or him hitting you in kidneys with his bear knuckles. i gurantee he will stop you cold if he connect. But even if you have the strength and power to adminster dim mak. You have to get a clean shot off and know where to hit.



Having good technique and a solid foundation of power and movement/footwork is first and foremost...and IMO you need not have"deadly techs" just good old fashion damaging techs as you would in H2H.

Ive found through mixing with other styles that specifically train against weapons that the habbit of not using thumbs for grabbing in VT is contrary to how you would need to deal with an attacker with a knife...

That said - controlling the weapon on your outside after stepping inside is good - like stepping in chopping the swinging arm with a Guarn Sau then grabbing the arm to control followed by - stomping a knee to ground the opponent, then using footwork to circle around the opponent to lock off his ability to use the arm and weapon followed by a good head stomp is my prefered tech...which IMO is 'mostly' VT and while it can be deadly if you dont stop stomping... is enough to stop a unseasoned angry knife laymen LOL.

Anyway thats my take.

DREW



Which Wing Chun lineages don't allow grabbing with the thumb!

[Taryn P.]

Despair not!

If you sign an unbreakable twenty-year contract to study under Chazmek (prices and conditions available upon request), at the end of that period he just **MAY** (if you are lucky, work hard and bring him good snacks) deem you worthy to learn the inner secrets of his Dim Mak. At which point you would of course be required to sign a second twenty-year contract. Oh, and you also have to buy the uniform, and clean out his ferret cages every weekend. :p




Ya know, I just realized something.
Why the hell am I going around on a public forum telling people that there is no magic qi trick to Dim Mak?
Forget everything I've posted above!
Dim Mak is indeed a super secret style that is only taught by albino monks in an invisible temple on top of a mountain that only appears in our dimension every 3.14159265358979 thousand years. Once you've mastered it, you can kill people just by poking their shadow with a jade needle and making all their qi reverse its flow, causing their organs to explode with disrupted elemental energy. I have fully mastered the Dim Mak style but I have been forbidden to show it to anyone. So, don't bother trying to learn it, and don't ask me to show you, because then I'd have to kill you.
There. Now you all know the secret story of Dim Mak.
Have a nice day.

[Yoshiyahu]

Other than Dim Mak and Mystical magic touches...


What other training or conditioning can make your WC gung fu more deadly?

[m1k3]

Other than Dim Mak and Mystical magic touches...


What other training or conditioning can make your WC gung fu more deadly?

Buying a gun and getting a concealed carry permit.

People are hard to kill. Look at the people in the military who get medals for bravery. They are often shot more than once and keep on going. LEOs will tell you about people who have been shot or stabbed and keep on fighting.

So, personally I don't worry about being deadly and just enjoy the workout.

[anerlich]

Here's my answer
What is Dim Mak? 点穴
What does it mean? Touching points? Grabbing? Seizing? Striking?

No answer at all. Just more questions, and attacking the questioner.

What my instructor does he calls chin-na.

What is Dim Mak? I think I asked first.

You seem frustrated about something. Good luck with that.

[anerlich]

Which Wing Chun lineages don't allow grabbing with the thumb!

I don't think any of them disallow it. A rule of, er, thumb, in many systems is that grabbing with the thumb does not allow for the fast switching of controls that allows threading arms, running hands, etc. And that you can catch your thumb on the opponent's limbs.

The grip is stronger (but only in certain directions, away from the fingertips) without the thumb.

Against a blade you want to grab that sucker so the guy has no chance of freeing it, twirling, whatever. If he can disengage from your grip he can cut you.

[anerlich]

What other training or conditioning can make your WC gung fu more deadly?

Doing more of it with higher intensity.

[couch]

Couch, I appreciate the offer.

I am a skeptic, not a fundamentalist unbeliever. Happy to be proved wrong, but it is taking a while.

I hear you. I'm a skeptic first, believer second. :)

Prolly why I'm such a big pain the a$$. LOL

[Liddel]

Which Wing Chun lineages don't allow grabbing with the thumb!


A rule of, er, thumb, in many systems is that grabbing with the thumb does not allow for the fast switching of controls that allows threading arms, running hands, etc. And that you can catch your thumb on the opponent's limbs.

Thats my understanding also.

As an add on - i was taught never to grab with the thumbs when rolling IE the thumb is always c o c k e d in lop Sao etc the dragons tail some call it.

It makes your palm more stable and hard especially for striking / people cant lock you up Aikido styles or otherwise during rolling ie it allows for free release when preasure is applied in other words.

I thought most Ip Man lineages would keep to this on some level at the very least ???

Are you from a mainland lineage ?

Check out youtube Lop Sao, look at the controlling hand on the bong for refference, most have the thumb on the finger side of the forearm not in a grab style grip with thumb opposite fingers etc

or perhaps im special :p :o

DREW

[SimonM]

Sanjuro, poking people just about anywhere with a sharp object usually works.

This is true. But poke people different places with a sharp object and different levels of effect happen.

Example: Poke somebody in the front of the thigh and it will hurt like a motherfvcker and slow them down plenty.

Poke somebody on the inside of the thigh you can cut the femoral artery and get to watch as they quickly bleed to death.

Poke somebody in upper center mass with a horizontally oriented blade to their right and you puncture a lung... opponent needs a hospital.

Poke somebody in the upper center mass with a horizontally oriented blade to their left and you may puncture the heart... in which case opponent needs a morgue.

[Yoshiyahu]

To Liddel and anerlich. I asked about the grabbing because my Sifu taught us both Jau Sau(Running Hand) and also Grabbing Hand(Lop Sau) With out use of the thumbs. But he also taught us Jut Sau where you do use the thumb to pull your opponent. You can't jerk your opponent with out a thumb. But in Most cases the use of thumb is done for a split second. But we do use our thumbs as well as not using them. Also we do training that will increase our gribs for grabbing Like Jars filled with water, Metal Pipe Torquing, Bricks rotating & Wrist Rollers.





Thats my understanding also.

As an add on - i was taught never to grab with the thumbs when rolling IE the thumb is always c o c k e d in lop Sao etc the dragons tail some call it.

It makes your palm more stable and hard especially for striking / people cant lock you up Aikido styles or otherwise during rolling ie it allows for free release when preasure is applied in other words.

I thought most Ip Man lineages would keep to this on some level at the very least ???

Are you from a mainland lineage ?

Check out youtube Lop Sao, look at the controlling hand on the bong for refference, most have the thumb on the finger side of the forearm not in a grab style grip with thumb opposite fingers etc

or perhaps im special :p :o

DREW


I don't think any of them disallow it. A rule of, er, thumb, in many systems is that grabbing with the thumb does not allow for the fast switching of controls that allows threading arms, running hands, etc. And that you can catch your thumb on the opponent's limbs.

The grip is stronger (but only in certain directions, away from the fingertips) without the thumb.

Against a blade you want to grab that sucker so the guy has no chance of freeing it, twirling, whatever. If he can disengage from your grip he can cut you.

[anerlich]

You can't jerk your opponent with out a thumb.

I can with a thumbless larp sao and so can my fellow students. The larp sao sldies down the forearm.catches at the wrist near his thumb and jerks him off balance. (NB leave the last word out and the sentence has a whole new meaning).


But he also taught us Jut Sau where you do use the thumb to pull your opponent.

In my lineage jut sao has forward energy using the radial side or the palm and wrist and the thumb would serve no purpose. Jut sao is not a pulling action at all.


Also we do training that will increase our gribs for grabbing Like Jars filled with water, Metal Pipe Torquing, Bricks rotating & Wrist Rollers.

Strong grips are essential for BJJ with gi. I do plate pinches. bottom up presses with the kettlebells, and towel and gi rows and chin ups.

[Edmund]

You can't jerk your opponent with out a thumb.

Maybe use a bit more lube. :D

[Yoshiyahu]

ewwww your nasty! yuko yucky....








Maybe use a bit more lube. :D

[Shadow_warrior8]

No answer at all. Just more questions, and attacking the questioner.

What my instructor does he calls chin-na.

What is Dim Mak? I think I asked first.

You seem frustrated about something. Good luck with that.

Banter is good for coffeehouses on a bad day.

What answers? To this?

And you just confirmed MY statements! Too complicated my a$$.

No offence to anyone, but I've had several acupuncture treatments from Chinese-qualified acupuncturists for various ailments and found them a total waste of time and money. If you look at the links in my .sig, you'll find I have studied this stuff reasonably extensively. I have a diploma in acupressure, woo hoo.

So you can take your implications of my ignorance and stick em in your Dim Mak points.

Chazmek, I appreciate your considered responses. I know that stuff works through pain and disruption to the nervous system. What I have problems with is people claiming that they "dsrupt the enemy's flow of chi" and such rubbish.

This is a kungfu forum and its for sharing. Here is it in writing so its clear what consist of Chin Na

擒拿 Chin Na can generally be categorized (in Chinese) as:

"Fen Jin" or "Zhua Jin" (dividing the muscle/tendon, grabbing the muscle/tendon). "Fen" means "to divide", "Zhua" is "to grab" and "Jin" means "tendon, muscle, sinew". They refer to techniques which tear apart an opponent's muscles or tendons.
"Cuo Gu" (misplacing the bone). "Cuo" means "wrong, disorder" and "Gu" means "bone". Cuo Gu therefore refer to techniques which put bones in wrong positions and is usually applied specifically to joints.
"Bi Qi" (sealing the breath). "Bi" means "to close, seal or shut" and "Qi", or more specifically "Kong Qi", meaning "air". "Bi Qi" is the technique of preventing the opponent from inhaling. This differs from mere strangulation in that it may be applied not only to the windpipe directly but also to muscles surrounding the lungs, supposedly to shock the system in to a contraction which impairs breathing.
"Dian Mai" or "Dian Xue" (sealing the vein/artery or acupressure cavity). Similar to the Cantonese "Dim Mak", these are the technique of sealing or striking blood vessels and "Qi" points.

This is the same info on Dr Yang's many books on Chin Na and it has been around for years, no one read it to get the right defination?

Attacking you? Hahahaha...I merely asked you on more info on points you mentioned. Why do you need to ask what is dim mak when you have a diploma on Accupuncture, you should be the shining the light for us.
You claimed it is simple and can be discussed in forums. I claimed otherwise, so hence not much info- but still more information, videos, text, than you have presented. I also asked for your understanding of the dim mak exercise done on china national tv.
From your answers, I still have to say, sharing on Dim Mak is really hard to do.

Yeah,
I have issues with people studying chinese culture, TCMA and calling it rubbish on a kungfu forum.
I have issues who dont even read a word of chinese yet claiming they are know alls.
I have issues with crap interpretation of a deep and rich culture that has hardly been exposed the west- some of the best things are still in the motherland

Dont need luck with these issues. China has opened up, the doors are open. Those who hasnt caught drift of the truth of TCMA and spend time to learn traditional TCMA are in need of luck.
Some good fortune/fate is better issued to those who learnt from the Self declared western masters who dont read chinese, put down the culture, and has no respect for the source- A trademark of the traditional master.

[Yoshiyahu]

Westerners just steal what they think is useful and what they don't understand the kill or destroy....kinda of like Manifest destiny in Amerikkka!

No other culture outside of Greece and Rome can compare to western ideology civilize and first world. To the west China is third world country. An its still 100 years behind the times!

We westerners are superior in every way...this is the ideolgoy...So you will see much more disrspect for Chinese culture. They just want their fighting combative arts....their culture and medicine the westerners could care less about!


Banter is good for coffeehouses on a bad day.

What answers? To this?


This is a kungfu forum and its for sharing. Here is it in writing so its clear what consist of Chin Na

擒拿 Chin Na can generally be categorized (in Chinese) as:

"Fen Jin" or "Zhua Jin" (dividing the muscle/tendon, grabbing the muscle/tendon). "Fen" means "to divide", "Zhua" is "to grab" and "Jin" means "tendon, muscle, sinew". They refer to techniques which tear apart an opponent's muscles or tendons.
"Cuo Gu" (misplacing the bone). "Cuo" means "wrong, disorder" and "Gu" means "bone". Cuo Gu therefore refer to techniques which put bones in wrong positions and is usually applied specifically to joints.
"Bi Qi" (sealing the breath). "Bi" means "to close, seal or shut" and "Qi", or more specifically "Kong Qi", meaning "air". "Bi Qi" is the technique of preventing the opponent from inhaling. This differs from mere strangulation in that it may be applied not only to the windpipe directly but also to muscles surrounding the lungs, supposedly to shock the system in to a contraction which impairs breathing.
"Dian Mai" or "Dian Xue" (sealing the vein/artery or acupressure cavity). Similar to the Cantonese "Dim Mak", these are the technique of sealing or striking blood vessels and "Qi" points.

This is the same info on Dr Yang's many books on Chin Na and it has been around for years, no one read it to get the right defination?

Attacking you? Hahahaha...I merely asked you on more info on points you mentioned. Why do you need to ask what is dim mak when you have a diploma on Accupuncture, you should be the shining the light for us.
You claimed it is simple and can be discussed in forums. I claimed otherwise, so hence not much info- but still more information, videos, text, than you have presented. I also asked for your understanding of the dim mak exercise done on china national tv.
From your answers, I still have to say, sharing on Dim Mak is really hard to do.

Yeah,
I have issues with people studying chinese culture, TCMA and calling it rubbish on a kungfu forum.
I have issues who dont even read a word of chinese yet claiming they are know alls.
I have issues with crap interpretation of a deep and rich culture that has hardly been exposed the west- some of the best things are still in the motherland

Dont need luck with these issues. China has opened up, the doors are open. Those who hasnt caught drift of the truth of TCMA and spend time to learn traditional TCMA are in need of luck.
Some good fortune/fate is better issued to those who learnt from the Self declared western masters who dont read chinese, put down the culture, and has no respect for the source- A trademark of the traditional master.

[sanjuro_ronin]

This is true. But poke people different places with a sharp object and different levels of effect happen.

Example: Poke somebody in the front of the thigh and it will hurt like a motherfvcker and slow them down plenty.

Poke somebody on the inside of the thigh you can cut the femoral artery and get to watch as they quickly bleed to death.

Poke somebody in upper center mass with a horizontally oriented blade to their right and you puncture a lung... opponent needs a hospital.

Poke somebody in the upper center mass with a horizontally oriented blade to their left and you may puncture the heart... in which case opponent needs a morgue.


There was also a "hidden secret" in there that I was hoping some one would have caught on, it had to do with what T said in regards to finger strikes too.
The forging of tools goes hand0in0hand with the ability to apply Dim Mak at its "higher levels".
Example, the vital point located about an inch or so under the right nipple, if you were to strike it with a fist, it would hurt,yes, just like any good left hook to the liver.
But picture, if you will, the same strike with a wooden dowel about 1" in dia and protruding out of your fist about an inch or so, would striking that area hurt more or less?
would it cause more or less damage?

[m1k3]

Example, the vital point located about an inch or so under the right nipple, if you were to strike it with a fist, it would hurt,yes, just like any good left hook to the liver.
But picture, if you will, the same strike with a wooden dowel about 1" in dia and protruding out of your fist about an inch or so, would striking that area hurt more or less?
would it cause more or less damage?



If I used the same tool to do a hammerfist to your skull would it hurt more or less than a plane hammerfist?

Of course any tool that can be used as a force multiplier will increase the effectiveness of any strike.

I will give credit though striking the appropriate spot can do more damage than a random shot.

However it is easier to carry a nice, stylish metal pen in your pocket rather than spending years doing some iron hand/finger training.

I read some place that in his later years Mas Oyama couldn't even hold chopsticks because of his arthritis. It may not be a directly caused by his conditioning routine but I don't feel any need to find out. I have enough of it in my hands without doing anything to aggravate it.

[sanjuro_ronin]

If I used the same tool to do a hammerfist to your skull would it hurt more or less than a plane hammerfist?

Of course any tool that can be used as a force multiplier will increase the effectiveness of any strike.

I will give credit though striking the appropriate spot can do more damage than a random shot.

However it is easier to carry a nice, stylish metal pen in your pocket rather than spending years doing some iron hand/finger training.

I read some place that in his later years Mas Oyama couldn't even hold chopsticks because of his arthritis. It may not be a directly caused by his conditioning routine but I don't feel any need to find out. I have enough of it in my hands without doing anything to aggravate it.

RE: Oyama, yes I read that too, in Smith's book "Martial Musings", not sure how correct it was...
Your point is well taken and I agree.
My point is that, what was developed and created for specific purposes many decades ago, needs to be evaluated under those same conditions and not in terms of "today", if we are to make a statement on its value or lack there of.

To say that finger strikes don't work, for example, when the fact s they don't work FOR US, is erroneous.
Best to say that, " finger strikes don't work for me because I don't train them".

[m1k3]

^^^^^^
Agreed!

[sanjuro_ronin]

^^^^^^
Agreed!

:D

Just to be a pain though:


However it is easier to carry a nice, stylish metal pen in your pocket rather than spending years doing some iron hand/finger training.

The time it takes to get the pen out, may be too long...

While I have never been a fan of finger forging, the forging of the Phoenix-eye fist is something that I do devote some time to.

[m1k3]

Dude, I haven't been in a situation that required anything more than harsh language since I got out of the Marines in 1974. :eek:

Yep, I'm that old. Being 6'1'' and 240 lbs doesn't hurt either. :)

[Yoshiyahu]

Do you guys know of any Wing Chun books that speak in detail concerning conditioning and training of Iron Palm and Iron Fingers?


I know one of bruce lees book discusses the practices. Do you guys know of any Sifu's who also discuss it?

[anerlich]

diploma on Accupuncture

Acupressure (with one c)


Yeah,
I have issues

Apparently so. Thanks for persevering with a much better, albeit not totally convincing, explanation.

Skepticism and asking questions do not necessarily lack of respect for the culture. I have studied TCMA for nearly 30 years, including with some Chinese instructors. I also owned Y J-M's book, though I lent it to someone who never gave it back some time ago. I wouldn't have done my diploma if I had though the whole thing was a waste of time. I gave TCMA practitioners more than one opportunity to prove its efficacy.

Will my BJJ get better if I learn Portuguese?

[Shadow_warrior8]

Acupressure (with one c)

Apparently so. Thanks for persevering with a much better, albeit not totally convincing, explanation.

Skepticism and asking questions do not necessarily lack of respect for the culture. I have studied TCMA for nearly 30 years, including with some Chinese instructors. I also owned Y J-M's book, though I lent it to someone who never gave it back some time ago. I wouldn't have done my diploma if I had though the whole thing was a waste of time. I gave TCMA practitioners more than one opportunity to prove its efficacy.

Will my BJJ get better if I learn Portuguese?

Chinese TCMA/TCM needs to be given a chance by you?
Heh heh, seriously go your path be happy. You have gone off your rocker.....

Skepticism and asking questions do not necessarily lack of respect for the culture.
Yes agreed. Your only question was What is Dim Mak, I answered with the accurate defination and a disclaimer that it was not possible to expound on it on forums. You claim otherwise. Hence I asked you for your expertise. The rest were just nonsense remarks about your ass, sticking stuff in dim mak points etc....

Er...In all my 30 years of study, I havent never studied TCMA under any non chinese instructors, like I said, I have issues with people who dont speak the language, but claim to be experts in the art that requires one to read, write, speak it. And even if he is chinese, but doesnt bother to study the art, it aint good enough. You dont want to give good money to anyone who just claims they have some kind of credentials.
Though I have met some non asian guys whose chinese, mandarin, cantonese, dialects and understanding of TCMA/TCM will put many asians to shame though.

I cant speak for BJJ, but I am sure your understanding of accpuncture(I will purposely spell it this way since you are so keen to earn english language points), TCMA, TCM will improve, and you wouldnt waste so many posts, arguing what is the actual defination of Chin Na or Dim Mak and what it entails. The correct defination has been around for hundreds of years and was revealed in english by Dr Yang in the 80s. If someone had said chin na doesnt include dim mak, you could have known then, he was pulling the wool over your eyes- See, the language is important!

擒拿 Chin Na can generally be categorized (in Chinese) as:

"Fen Jin" or "Zhua Jin" (dividing the muscle/tendon, grabbing the muscle/tendon). "Fen" means "to divide", "Zhua" is "to grab" and "Jin" means "tendon, muscle, sinew". They refer to techniques which tear apart an opponent's muscles or tendons.
"Cuo Gu" (misplacing the bone). "Cuo" means "wrong, disorder" and "Gu" means "bone". Cuo Gu therefore refer to techniques which put bones in wrong positions and is usually applied specifically to joints.
"Bi Qi" (sealing the breath). "Bi" means "to close, seal or shut" and "Qi", or more specifically "Kong Qi", meaning "air". "Bi Qi" is the technique of preventing the opponent from inhaling. This differs from mere strangulation in that it may be applied not only to the windpipe directly but also to muscles surrounding the lungs, supposedly to shock the system in to a contraction which impairs breathing.
"Dian Mai" or "Dian Xue" (sealing the vein/artery or acupressure cavity). Similar to the Cantonese "Dim Mak", these are the technique of sealing or striking blood vessels and "Qi" points.

[Yoshiyahu]

Nicely said. Well done indeed...Somepeople really don't like Traditial Chinese Martial Arts or Medicine. Its like trying to a force a child to eat green veggies. Some will like it. But most will repel it in disgust.

And GReen veggies are actually good for you.


Chinese TCMA/TCM needs to be given a chance by you?
Heh heh, seriously go your path be happy. You have gone off your rocker.....

Skepticism and asking questions do not necessarily lack of respect for the culture.
Yes agreed. Your only question was What is Dim Mak, I answered with the accurate defination and a disclaimer that it was not possible to expound on it on forums. You claim otherwise. Hence I asked you for your expertise. The rest were just nonsense remarks about your ass, sticking stuff in dim mak points etc....

Er...In all my 30 years of study, I havent never studied TCMA under any non chinese instructors, like I said, I have issues with people who dont speak the language, but claim to be experts in the art that requires one to read, write, speak it. And even if he is chinese, but doesnt bother to study the art, it aint good enough. You dont want to give good money to anyone who just claims they have some kind of credentials.
Though I have met some non asian guys whose chinese, mandarin, cantonese, dialects and understanding of TCMA/TCM will put many asians to shame though.

I cant speak for BJJ, but I am sure your understanding of accpuncture(I will purposely spell it this way since you are so keen to earn english language points), TCMA, TCM will improve, and you wouldnt waste so many posts, arguing what is the actual defination of Chin Na or Dim Mak and what it entails. The correct defination has been around for hundreds of years and was revealed in english by Dr Yang in the 80s. If someone had said chin na doesnt include dim mak, you could have known then, he was pulling the wool over your eyes- See, the language is important!

擒拿 Chin Na can generally be categorized (in Chinese) as:

"Fen Jin" or "Zhua Jin" (dividing the muscle/tendon, grabbing the muscle/tendon). "Fen" means "to divide", "Zhua" is "to grab" and "Jin" means "tendon, muscle, sinew". They refer to techniques which tear apart an opponent's muscles or tendons.
"Cuo Gu" (misplacing the bone). "Cuo" means "wrong, disorder" and "Gu" means "bone". Cuo Gu therefore refer to techniques which put bones in wrong positions and is usually applied specifically to joints.
"Bi Qi" (sealing the breath). "Bi" means "to close, seal or shut" and "Qi", or more specifically "Kong Qi", meaning "air". "Bi Qi" is the technique of preventing the opponent from inhaling. This differs from mere strangulation in that it may be applied not only to the windpipe directly but also to muscles surrounding the lungs, supposedly to shock the system in to a contraction which impairs breathing.
"Dian Mai" or "Dian Xue" (sealing the vein/artery or acupressure cavity). Similar to the Cantonese "Dim Mak", these are the technique of sealing or striking blood vessels and "Qi" points.

[anerlich]

With the Troll of St Louis and his fellow vegetables backing you up, I guess I'll have to take a second (third/fourth) look at TCM and the related disciplines. :rolleyes:

Best wishes.

[AdrianK]

Nicely said. Well done indeed...Somepeople really don't like Traditial Chinese Martial Arts or Medicine. Its like trying to a force a child to eat green veggies. Some will like it. But most will repel it in disgust.

And GReen veggies are actually good for you.

One is backed up by the scientific community.

The other can sometimes defy the knowledge that the most brilliant people in the world have come to accept as fact.

[Yoshiyahu]

Which one is backed up my the Scientific community?

An which community east or west?



One is backed up by the scientific community.

The other can sometimes defy the knowledge that the most brilliant people in the world have come to accept as fact.

[AdrianK]

Which one is backed up my the Scientific community?

Definitely not the green vegetables, you know how those doctors hate their veggies. :rolleyes:



An which community east or west?

I think every known civilized society will back up the idea that vegetables are in general, good for you.

Though contrary to popular belief, the greens you smoke yoshiyahu, they aren't very good for you.

[Yoshiyahu]

Well i don't smoke anything. Especially greens...But as for greens. Anything green is suppose to be consumed. Not smoked. Smoking them could cause harm to your organs. But eating them is what should be done.



Definitely not the green vegetables, you know how those doctors hate their veggies. :rolleyes:




I think every known civilized society will back up the idea that vegetables are in general, good for you.

Though contrary to popular belief, the greens you smoke yoshiyahu, they aren't very good for you.

[Genetic]

Well i don't smoke anything. Especially greens...But as for greens. Anything green is suppose to be consumed. Not smoked. Smoking them could cause harm to your organs. But eating them is what should be done.

Anything green is supposed to be consumed. Not smoked.

This is the single most stupid statement I have ever read.

Im off to eat a pound of skunk (or is it called chronic in the US) and will be able to open up more than 8 meridians. The only limit will be my imagination...

(BTW, I think people are hinting that you are HIGH or have lost touch with reality!)

Im going to eat a caterpillar.

Im going to consume a dollar bill. And a big piece of astro turf.

Oh no. My neighbours car is green. I think even eating that could damage more than my organs. What about my teeth!!!

Could I offer some advise. Read what you write before you submit it. And think about what you write before you write it. And comprehend what you read before you think about how to respond.

Just a thought.

[anerlich]

This is the single most stupid statement I have ever read.

You musn't have read the rest of his recent posts.

[Genetic]

You musn't have read the rest of his recent posts.

I might have seen it. Was it presented as list of seemingly arbitary items?

[couch]

Acupressure (with one c)



Apparently so. Thanks for persevering with a much better, albeit not totally convincing, explanation.

Skepticism and asking questions do not necessarily lack of respect for the culture. I have studied TCMA for nearly 30 years, including with some Chinese instructors. I also owned Y J-M's book, though I lent it to someone who never gave it back some time ago. I wouldn't have done my diploma if I had though the whole thing was a waste of time. I gave TCMA practitioners more than one opportunity to prove its efficacy.

Will my BJJ get better if I learn Portuguese?

With the crap that gets spouted off on these forums, it's any wonder why people don't take Chinese medicine or Wing Chun seriously at all! LOL!!!

[anerlich]

I might have seen it. Was it presented as list of seemingly arbitary items?

That was the tip of a very big iceberg.

[Phil Redmond]

Making your WC deadly????
I normally try to be diplomatic but I think the title of this thread is ludicrous. :rolleyes:

[Yoshiyahu]

I am sorry my thread doesn't appeal to you. I was just woundering if anyone discusses,studies or practices some of the deadly techniques. Are do most people just omit them because see them as useless?



Making your WC deadly????
I normally try to be diplomatic but I think the title of this thread is ludicrous. :rolleyes:



Actually anything green that is vegatable...let me clarify...food. Not a green lizard. but veggies...lol...yea when they say smoking they were alluding to marijuana...i never smoked anything ever in my life. But my point was smoking pot is not only illegal but damages your organs. Not as bad as tobacco but it does do damage.


Oh in the U.S.A. we call it Pot,Bud,Budda,drove,fiya etc...Chronic is old old word used in the 90's. Kinda of obselete now and days...





Anything green is supposed to be consumed. Not smoked.

This is the single most stupid statement I have ever read.

Im off to eat a pound of skunk (or is it called chronic in the US) and will be able to open up more than 8 meridians. The only limit will be my imagination...

(BTW, I think people are hinting that you are HIGH or have lost touch with reality!)

Im going to eat a caterpillar.

Im going to consume a dollar bill. And a big piece of astro turf.

Oh no. My neighbours car is green. I think even eating that could damage more than my organs. What about my teeth!!!

Could I offer some advise. Read what you write before you submit it. And think about what you write before you write it. And comprehend what you read before you think about how to respond.

Just a thought.

[AdrianK]

...yea when they say smoking they were alluding to marijuana...

Oh, were we? :rolleyes:



But my point was smoking pot is not only illegal but damages your organs.

Semi-legal.



Not as bad as tobacco but it does do damage.

Eh, some studies suggest its worse then tobacco because you hold the smoke in, longer.



Oh in the U.S.A. we call it Pot,Bud,Budda,drove,fiya etc...Chronic is old old word used in the 90's. Kinda of obselete now and days...

You sure know a hell of a lot more names for it then I do. Are you sure you've never smoked? :p

[Yoshiyahu]

How is pot semi-legal


I never heard pot was worst than tobacco..i have to research that..


Anyway as for knowing names. From school,family,friends,co-workers.



Oh, were we? :rolleyes:




Semi-legal.




Eh, some studies suggest its worse then tobacco because you hold the smoke in, longer.




You sure know a hell of a lot more names for it then I do. Are you sure you've never smoked? :p

[Phil Redmond]

I am sorry my thread doesn't appeal to you. I was just woundering if anyone discusses,studies or practices some of the deadly techniques. Are do most people just omit them because see them as useless? . . . .
Though I understand your intent we "should" be doing a "martial" (war) art. Hence the thread title was redundant IMO.

[anerlich]

Oh in the U.S.A. we call it Pot,Bud,Budda,drove,fiya etc...Chronic is old old word used in the 90's. Kinda of obselete now and days...

In Australia it is called "dope', kind of fitting when one considers this thread.

It is not illegal everywhere. Some jurisdictions allow possession or growth of small amounts for personal use.

[SimonM]

And then there is Canada...

Where the legality of pot depends on which judge hears your case.

And where the baseline for simple posession is a ticket (equivalent of a misdemeanor for you americans in the crowd).

[AdrianK]

How is pot semi-legal

Its legality varies from place to place. Several US states offer medical marijuana cards for the tiniest so-called "disability". Its practically legal cause if you want a card, it doesn't matter what you have, you can get one.

Federally its illegal, so don't smoke in front of a D.E.A agent, but a normal police officer can't arrest you if you have a card.

[SimonM]

Perscription Pot is available in Canada although it is (apparently) more tightly controlled than the USA in that if you don't have glaucoma, epilepsy or terminal stage cancer / aids you aren't likely to get the license.

However a few years back a judge ruled the pot laws to be unconstitutional he gave the federal government a year to introduce new legislation and the government never did. Pot was subsequently decriminalized. Another judge delivered an opposite verdict roughly a year after decriminalization, leading to a de-facto restoration of the previous (possibly unconstitutional) law.

With the situation being as it is if a person is charged for simple posession (and if they chose to contest the ticket - which many people don't) than whether the previous law is upheld largely depends on which judge hears the case.

[Yoshiyahu]

Though I understand your intent we "should" be doing a "martial" (war) art. Hence the thread title was redundant IMO.

Please explain what you mean by War art. Many people don't teach Wing Chun that way. They teach it will less emphasize on destructive aggressive force.

So please share why you thought the title was redundant?

[SimonM]

The "Wu" in wushu / wugong is what is usually translated as "martial"

However it is more effectively translated as "pertaining to the military"

So wushu becomes skill pertaining to the military...

Or, more poetically martial / war art. Either is effectively as good a translation as the other. Martial has generally been preferred over war in the west.

[CFT]

Or, more poetically martial / war art. Either is effectively as good a translation as the other. Martial has generally been preferred over war in the west.Except when it is explicitly "War Studies" - as an academic discipline.

[Yoshiyahu]

Please share some ways to make your Art more deadly?

[AdrianK]

Add in Gun Kata.

[Yoshiyahu]

Add in Gun Kata.

Oh, So something fictional will make your Art more deadly?

[lkfmdc]

you need to invest in sharks with laser beans attached to their heads

if they can swin in lava, even better!

[Dale Dugas]

Oh, So something fictional will make your Art more deadly?

Nothing fictional about a very nice Taurus .45 Caliber Handgun to make your sun punching the deadliest it can be.

Guns trump skills anyday of the week

[AdrianK]

you need to invest in sharks with laser beans attached to their heads

if they can swin in lava, even better!

Laser beans are super deadlier.

[Genetic]

Please explain what you mean by War art. Many people don't teach Wing Chun that way. They teach it will less emphasize on destructive aggressive force.

You could use your time wisely and stop asking silly questions and look around for a different school.

[Yoshiyahu]

What can you do make your WC deadly for when you run out bullets? Your Gun Jams? Or it left at home?


Nothing fictional about a very nice Taurus .45 Caliber Handgun to make your sun punching the deadliest it can be.

Guns trump skills anyday of the week


you need to invest in sharks with laser beans attached to their heads


if they can swin in lava, even better!

What will you do if your not attacked in the water but on land?



You could use your time wisely and stop asking silly questions and look around for a different school.


This is a forum so its okay to asked silly questions? That how people learn by asking question?

[AdrianK]

What can you do make your WC deadly for when you run out bullets? Your Gun Jams? Or it left at home?

Run.
If there is a situation that calls for you to kill someone, the best idea would usually be to get out of there and get assistance from any kind of law enforcement agency.

Do you realize how few martial artists, who are not active law enforcement or military, have actually had to kill someone?

[Yoshiyahu]

Run.
If there is a situation that calls for you to kill someone, the best idea would usually be to get out of there and get assistance from any kind of law enforcement agency.

Do you realize how few martial artists, who are not active law enforcement or military, have actually had to kill someone?

Just because you train to posses killing power doesn't mean you use those skills to kill....For instance someone who is strong enough to break five bricks with a fist and palm strike doesn't have to always hit someone on top of their head or in back of their head. That same Punch or Palm strike can be used against someones Arms or legs of even hips or shoulder to dislocate or break bones. Which will leave your attacker alive but too hurt to fight you. I would reserved targets for killing if I was attacked by a knife fighter who had cut my arms or stabbed me. Or someone with a gun. i would then utilize techniques that could kill quickly to prevent my death or more injury. But as for multiple attackers with no weapons.

Having a Kung like Iron Fingers
Iron Palm
Piercing Iron Toe strike

could prove useful and kill the spirit of your attackers quickly....

[m1k3]

Yoshiyahu, I think you watch too many kung fu movies.

Do you know how hard it is to kill someone? People can get shot multiple times and still keep on fighting. There are plenty of police reports and people who have earned medals that verify this.

As for "if I was attacked by a knife fighter who had cut my arms or stabbed me". Do you also know how bad a cut or a stab can be? A simple deep cut to your forearm or hand can cause you to go into shock and even lead to death. If you have already been cut you are pretty much scr3wed and are most likely going to be cut again, and again, and again and so on. You are fighting someone who has a knife and is willing to use it.

Lose the fantasy about deadly skills and fighting people with guns and knives and flamethrowers and gangs of rabid bikers.

Practice your art, enjoy it and that should be enough.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Just because you train to posses killing power doesn't mean you use those skills to kill....For instance someone who is strong enough to break five bricks with a fist and palm strike doesn't have to always hit someone on top of their head or in back of their head. That same Punch or Palm strike can be used against someones Arms or legs of even hips or shoulder to dislocate or break bones. Which will leave your attacker alive but too hurt to fight you. I would reserved targets for killing if I was attacked by a knife fighter who had cut my arms or stabbed me. Or someone with a gun. i would then utilize techniques that could kill quickly to prevent my death or more injury. But as for multiple attackers with no weapons.

Having a Kung like Iron Fingers
Iron Palm
Piercing Iron Toe strike

could prove useful and kill the spirit of your attackers quickly....


Dude, stop reading novels and watching movies, ok?

[Yoshiyahu]

Dude, stop reading novels and watching movies, ok?

I cant stop they are so facisnating...lol...

[sanjuro_ronin]

I cant stop they are so facisnating...lol...

LOL, can't argue there.

[Katsu Jin Ken]

yosh-

so you want to learn to kill, well

for the low low price of $99.95 i will ship my super secret private collection of no touch 5 heart exploding techniques simply called R.E.T.A.R.D. (Real Encounters Assuring Real Death) This 5 minute video will insure your survival even in the face of death. No matter what secenario, weapon, or number of people involved these "secret moves" will work everytime. My personal guarantee is that if they dont work (which may or may not result in you being stabbed, shot, blown up, having multiple facial lacerations, concousions) i will rembursh your payment to your next of kin.

PM me for contact info

Thanks yours truely

Grandmaster Shifu da deadly

[Hardwork108]

yosh-

so you want to learn to kill, well

for the low low price of $99.95 i will ship my super secret private collection of no touch 5 heart exploding techniques simply called R.E.T.A.R.D. (Real Encounters Assuring Real Death) This 5 minute video will insure your survival even in the face of death. No matter what secenario, weapon, or number of people involved these "secret moves" will work everytime. My personal guarantee is that if they dont work (which may or may not result in you being stabbed, shot, blown up, having multiple facial lacerations, concousions) i will rembursh your payment to your next of kin.

PM me for contact info

Thanks yours truely

Grandmaster Shifu da deadly

Hey, if you need a distributor for your R.E.T.A.R.D video then contact my "friend" lkfmdc. He is really good at selling cheap dvds, specially if it has a product name that he can identify with, just make sure that you give him a healthy cut. ;)

[Yoshiyahu]

Well its easier to break someones neck than doing some crazy heart slap technique.


But as for deadly weapons...Why not use a phillips head screw driver to pierce the chest and damage the heart?

My Sifu taught me also that pliers make nice weapons along with a combination lock in a sock!


yosh-

so you want to learn to kill, well

for the low low price of $99.95 i will ship my super secret private collection of no touch 5 heart exploding techniques simply called R.E.T.A.R.D. (Real Encounters Assuring Real Death) This 5 minute video will insure your survival even in the face of death. No matter what secenario, weapon, or number of people involved these "secret moves" will work everytime. My personal guarantee is that if they dont work (which may or may not result in you being stabbed, shot, blown up, having multiple facial lacerations, concousions) i will rembursh your payment to your next of kin.

PM me for contact info

Thanks yours truely

Grandmaster Shifu da deadly