Poll: What percentage of hand techniques versus leg techniques do you use?

[dnovice]

Question is what percentage of leg to arm techniques do you use in a fight/spar etc?

I've been thinking about this for a while now after looking at a lot of youtube videos, and people in my classes that people seem to be very proficient with their hands and usually never use their legs. :rolleyes:

[Katsu Jin Ken]

most people except that wing chun is a southern style with some northern influences. Southerners prefer hands north prefer feet.

[mjw]

About 20% legs counting just simple knees I would say.

[Liddel]

Im about 70 - 80% arms 30 - 20% legs.

I find that i usually begin or end flurries with either kicks or elbows. These are my heaviest actions.

I tend to stomp the legs freestyle or when controlling arms which is more VT but its low usage in alot of my sprring cause its just not sportsman like...
last time i landed a VT kick against my KB sparring partner he angered me with a real heavy thigh kick and i lost it a little and stomped the side of his knee dropping him.

He couldn't sparr for a week and was a little upset, and i was a quite annoyed at myself but also at the fact i have trouble training certain VT leg kicks because they are to damaging for sparring :o

Leg kicks are desructuve but body kicks are sweet so it tends to lessen my leg use ;) and can tend to become more kickboxing IMO which aint good for VT guy :o

Lucky hes one of my best mates :)

DREW

[Chazmek]

70% hands
30% legs

Almost all of those leg techniques are defensive in nature.
My kicks are still too slow to be consistantly effective for offense.

[dnovice]

Interesting so the consensus seems to be about 80/20. What is the optimal usage one should aspire to, do you think?


>lidell wrote:
>He couldn't sparr for a week and was a little upset, and i was a quite annoyed >at myself but also at the fact i have trouble training certain VT leg kicks because >they are to damaging for sparring

:eek: man that sucks. So it would be better to practice on an inanimate object like the wooden dummy.

>Katsu Jin Ken wrote:
>most people except that wing chun is a southern style with some northern >influences. Southerners prefer hands north prefer feet.

cool. The thing is there are kicks in our forms, in wing chun i mean. To neglect that is to neglect versality.

[Liddel]

What is the optimal usage one should aspire to, do you think?

I believe hands and legs work together leading in and out of combo's so it should be around 60 - 40 IMO... closer towards even.

This ratio also changes IME as i get tired in sparring, sometimes its hard to keep the hands up so i try to kick more or i get smacked in the head LOL



:eek: man that sucks. So it would be better to practice on an inanimate object like the wooden dummy.

I cant use full force on the dummy and i never do because of my opinion as to what the dummy is for, for me its a VT protractor.

A heavy bag is my only other option which i dont have full time access to so.... and sparring is needed to really get better at the kicks so its a tough one IMO.

Since that example i used (a while ago now) ive been kicking softer to practice timing and range - which is working but - its no comparrison to just being able to launch a good stomp :p my inside kicks are getting better though.

Ying and yang and all that :)

DREW

[AdrianK]

most people except that wing chun is a southern style with some northern influences. Southerners prefer hands north prefer feet.

And yet northern baji and southern mok gar somehow exist despite that :eek:

[Yoshiyahu]

I try to practice at least each kick on both sides and also in yee gee kim yeung ma.

In a fight slash sparring match kick ratio depends...Usually I shoot for 70%/30%

But if its a guy good with his hands. I try to do 50/50 to confuse him. Like a boxer who never uses kicks. Or another Martial Artist who use his feet 10% of the time. I will use my feet equally with my hand to distract him from the bottom while attacking the top especially on the inside if I am good enough to bridge my opponent I will also cause some distruption by stomping the knee. check kick his shins while palm striking,chain punching elbow slashing etc etc. I will use traps and Jut Sau along with a kick. It really depends. Recently I been using kicks more with my friends who I spar with. But my WC peeps usually use the hands. Except for my Sihing. he loves to kick. We have kicking parties sometime for hours where we just work on kicks and kick sparring.

[AdrianK]

Question is what percentage of leg to arm techniques do you use in a fight/spar etc?

The percentage that works.
A Spar or a fight is living and not static.

Its not a mathematical formula.

Test your opponent, figure out what hes weak with, and exploit those weaknesses.

Figure out your opponent and make adjustments as necessary.

[Yoshiyahu]

Please share with us the chaotic happenings of real one on one fight?

How can kicks be applied in a chaotic fight?

Do you see it as advantage or disadvantage to do kicks?


AdrianK Quote:
Question is what percentage of leg to arm techniques do you use in a fight/spar etc?

The percentage that works.
A Spar or a fight is living and not static.

Its not a mathematical formula.

Test your opponent, figure out what hes weak with, and exploit those weaknesses.

Figure out your opponent and make adjustments as necessary.

[AdrianK]

Please share with us the chaotic happenings of real one on one fight?

How can kicks be applied in a chaotic fight?

Do you see it as advantage or disadvantage to do kicks?

It really depends on the speed and power of your kick, where you decide to target and how quickly your opponent can react. All of these variables fluctuate but if you spar often, you'll have a good idea of when your opponent will be open for it.

That being said, like I said, these variables fluctuate. There are times in sparring where I know someone is a good kicker, so I wait for them to try to start to shift their balance to throw a kick, and I rush in and take them down or throw them. And there are times when I'm not on my game against kicks, and I get done in by it.

You just need to learn how to read your opponents and make adjustments if your game plan stops working.

There are no disadvantages or advantages to doing kicks other than the ridiculously obvious ones. They have their time and place to be done.

[Yoshiyahu]

Excellent post?

Tell what are ways you develop my power in your kicks?

What are ways you increase the speed of your kicks?



It really depends on the speed and power of your kick, where you decide to target and how quickly your opponent can react. All of these variables fluctuate but if you spar often, you'll have a good idea of when your opponent will be open for it.

That being said, like I said, these variables fluctuate. There are times in sparring where I know someone is a good kicker, so I wait for them to try to start to shift their balance to throw a kick, and I rush in and take them down or throw them. And there are times when I'm not on my game against kicks, and I get done in by it.

You just need to learn how to read your opponents and make adjustments if your game plan stops working.

There are no disadvantages or advantages to doing kicks other than the ridiculously obvious ones. They have their time and place to be done.

[dnovice]

And yet northern baji and southern mok gar somehow exist despite that :eek:

Useless information. Has nothing to do with the thread. Why are you posting??


I try to practice at least each kick on both sides and also in yee gee kim yeung ma.

In a fight slash sparring match kick ratio depends...Usually I shoot for 70%/30%

But if its a guy good with his hands. I try to do 50/50 to confuse him. Like a boxer who never uses kicks. Or another Martial Artist who use his feet 10% of the time. I will use my feet equally with my hand to distract him from the bottom while attacking the top especially on the inside if I am good enough to bridge my opponent I will also cause some distruption by stomping the knee. check kick his shins while palm striking,chain punching elbow slashing etc etc. I will use traps and Jut Sau along with a kick. It really depends. Recently I been using kicks more with my friends who I spar with. But my WC peeps usually use the hands. Except for my Sihing. he loves to kick. We have kicking parties sometime for hours where we just work on kicks and kick sparring.

Thank you Yoshiyahu.


The percentage that works.
A Spar or a fight is living and not static.

Its not a mathematical formula.


I know that. It was not the point of the thread. Useless info. Answer the question or don't post.

Adriank, this is a poll not a grounds for disagreeing with someone. I asked for honest feedback, and that honest feedback does not deserve spam critic that serves no purpose.

With this thread, I was hoping that all newbies and not just me could have this to refer to when they are looking for guide as to what is the best (ie. in senior members opinions). I want to add to the usefulness of this forum.

That said, it seems the common percentages favored are 50/50 and 70/30 Arms to leg usage.

Thank you guys for taking part.

[AdrianK]

Useless information. Has nothing to do with the thread. Why are you posting??

Hah. You really need to pull that stick out of your ass.

My comment was on a comment on the ridiculous assumption that an art coming from southern or northern china somehow must have a hand technique or leg technique focus.

It doesn't.



I know that. It was not the point of the thread. Useless info. Answer the question or don't post.

The thread is called
What percentage of hand techniques versus leg techniques do you use?

THE POINT OF MY POST IS THAT THERE IS NO SUCH STATIC PERCENTAGE!

Are you SERIOUS? Your poll doesn't even make any sense! It just invites the idiotic concept that there is some kind of "Correct" percentage!

This is a DISCUSSION BOARD.
If you don't want disagreements, then private message people.

[dnovice]

Hah. You really need to pull that stick out of your ass.

My comment was on a comment on the ridiculous assumption that an art coming from southern or northern china somehow must have a hand technique or leg technique focus.


Ok. Understood. But your comment diviates from the point of this post. So in this thread its, say it with me: "Useless." It helps no one.



The thread is called
What percentage of hand techniques versus leg techniques do you use?

THE POINT OF MY POST IS THAT THERE IS NO SUCH STATIC PERCENTAGE!

Are you SERIOUS? Your poll doesn't even make any sense! It just invites the idiotic concept that there is some kind of "Correct" percentage.

That right there my friend is what I am looking for. Your opinion on the matter. Thats it. Good job. how hard was it? I'm not implying anything man. Its a poll. I want peoples opinions and reasons if they can provide them. I don't say whether they are right or wrong man. All I ask is for a little contribution. Contribute and then do your discussion.


This is a DISCUSSION BOARD.
If you don't want disagreements, then private message people.

Agreed. So why don't we discuss the price of black sheep in Yemen??? Because its ultimately useless information.

sorry to come down harsh on you man. Ever since, I signed up on this forum I've witnessed a lot of spaming with no intention of educating. I'm not saying that's your intention.

Bro, I'm not saying don't discuss things... However when you provide nothing at all, that relates to the thread, and then bash someones opinion, you are spaming the thread.

cheers mate.

[Yoshiyahu]

Dnovice, Wow, I never thought of coming to someone the way you did dnovice...funny stuff..

adrian k there are static numbers in gung fu. like weight distribution

Yee Gee KIm Yeung Ma= (50/50).

Forward Advancing Stance = (70/30).

Now you may not adhere to static numbers in your kwoon but the usefulness of your kicks will be dictated by your practice...If you practice kicks 30% of the time on your own. In sparring they will be as effective as you practice them. The more or less you practice kicks will dictate usefulness of kicking ability. Each kwoon is different. Now and days more WC schools are bringing kicks up to a higher level. Such as Kicking form,Chi Gerk, and practicing other kick sparring drills.

Excuse my ignorance...Adrian K but did you ever actually share your estimated static number?

[dnovice]

but the usefulness of your kicks will be dictated by your practice...


That right there is gold.

[AdrianK]

adrian k there are static numbers in gung fu. like weight distribution

Weight Distribution being a static number is a concept to help you understand how to utilize certain physical templates.

In actuality weight distribution being a static 50/50, for instance, or 70/30, is a joke. Every movement we make changes that variable. Every time we make contact with someone, it changes that variable. You might start out in 50/50 at a single given millisecond, and you might strive to keep yourself in 50/50, but after that it is a constantly changing variable. You will never be able to maintain specific balance at all times, during a fight.




Now you may not adhere to static numbers in your kwoon but the usefulness of your kicks will be dictated by your practice...If you practice kicks 30% of the time on your own. In sparring they will be as effective as you practice them. The more or less you practice kicks will dictate usefulness of kicking ability. Each kwoon is different. Now and days more WC schools are bringing kicks up to a higher level. Such as Kicking form,Chi Gerk, and practicing other kick sparring drills.

If you plan to use any concept in fighting, you should train it constantly and equally.
You don't see boxers training hooks more than they do uppercuts, or jabs more than they do crosses. They train them equally because they have to use all of their weapons when they get in the ring, because they need to adapt to their opponent. Yes, there is a gameplan that gets favored in training, but professional boxers also have the ability to understand exactly who they're going up against. In real fighting, you don't. And you don't know what you're going to have to use, so you should be prepared to use everything you're good at, and not favor anything specifically, unless you have some kind of savant-like ability with it, like muhammad ali and his jab. But you're not muhammad ali so ya know, it doesn't really make sense for you to focus on something like that.

[LSWCTN1]

I believe hands and legs work together leading in and out of combo's so it should be around 60 - 40 IMO... closer towards even.


DREW

i'm with you on this

when practising gwoh sau with my first instructor, i almost exclusively used a kick as an entry (partly because he like to too, and this covered my line)

attempt to use the forward energy to overpower and ever so slightly push the structure back, drop the knee onto his knee and there you have a safe,controlled takedown

didnt always (or hardly ever!) work perfectly - he taught me, not the other way round!

have never played gwoh sau with my new instructor yet. not sure if i'd want to...!

[Yoshiyahu]

Excellent points. Numbers that are static change in actual fight. Including the repetitions of kicks you practice. Against certain opponents one will have to throw more or less kicks depending on fighter and sitituation.

Just because you train 30% kicks doesn't mean you will use that percentage of kicks in a confrontation. You may use more or less depeding on any given scenarios.


Weight Distribution being a static number is a concept to help you understand how to utilize certain physical templates.

In actuality weight distribution being a static 50/50, for instance, or 70/30, is a joke. Every movement we make changes that variable. Every time we make contact with someone, it changes that variable. You might start out in 50/50 at a single given millisecond, and you might strive to keep yourself in 50/50, but after that it is a constantly changing variable. You will never be able to maintain specific balance at all times, during a fight.





If you plan to use any concept in fighting, you should train it constantly and equally.
You don't see boxers training hooks more than they do uppercuts, or jabs more than they do crosses. They train them equally because they have to use all of their weapons when they get in the ring, because they need to adapt to their opponent. Yes, there is a gameplan that gets favored in training, but professional boxers also have the ability to understand exactly who they're going up against. In real fighting, you don't. And you don't know what you're going to have to use, so you should be prepared to use everything you're good at, and not favor anything specifically, unless you have some kind of savant-like ability with it, like muhammad ali and his jab. But you're not muhammad ali so ya know, it doesn't really make sense for you to focus on something like that.