Why hasn't anyone shown off their internal powers?

[AdrianK]

Seriously.

All this talk of internal this, internal that.

So wheres the proof?

1.) Anyone got any legitimate videos?

2.) And what the hell is internal power, anyway?

3.) Does it give you punching power?
Does it allow you to absorb a punch?

4.) How is it any different from what the human body can normally do, with training?

5.) Anyone ever use it in any legitimate sporting competition? Boxing? MMA? Football? Baseball? ANYTHING?

So nows the time all you DBZ fanatics, put up or shut up

[Hendrik]

Seriously.

All this talk of internal this, internal that.

So wheres the proof?

1.) Anyone got any legitimate videos?

2.) And what the hell is internal power, anyway?

3.) Does it give you punching power?
Does it allow you to absorb a punch?

4.) How is it any different from what the human body can normally do, with training?

5.) Anyone ever use it in any legitimate sporting competition? Boxing? MMA? Football? Baseball? ANYTHING?

So nows the time all you DBZ fanatics, put up or shut up


http://www.coilingdragon.com/ironvest.html

[anerlich]

http://www.coilingdragon.com/ironvest.html

Not particularly convincing.

Harry Houdini could do better than that (most of the time, anyway) and he wasn't an internal master.

[TenTigers]

In many cases, when TCMAists speak of internals, they are not speaking of ch'i, but of structural alignments, and relaxed, unified whole body power, rather than relying on tenseness and brute strength. Nothing mysterious-unless you haven't been exposed to this-especially when it is devloped to a high skill level.
Many have not. It's not DBZ, it's proper practice under qualified instructors.

[David Jamieson]

Not particularly convincing.

Harry Houdini could do better than that (most of the time, anyway) and he wasn't an internal master.

And how would you know about Harry Houdini and what he could or could not demonstrate? were you there? do you have video?

the ability to withstand and recover is called internal strength.

if you get hit in the guts and immediately go loose in the bowels and weak in the knees, it's clear you lack internal strength.

If you think of it in terms of overall body development, core strength and ability to use dynamic tension, anywhere, on demand and couple that with increased durability, stamina and core strength, then maybe that's all you need is terminology that you can understand.

When people grind it all down to language issues of english versus translated english and cryptic transmission versus technical transmission in mother tongue, then it is obvious that stuff will get lost in translation.

To get angry about it is simply immaturity. seriously, making demands of people in regards to a subject you are uneducated on is the hallmark of churls. lol

try approaching with a modicum of decency and courtesy and maybe, just maybe someone might feel inclined to impart with something.

Ultimately, a surly attitude will get you nothing but rejected though. Just sayin... :)

[Hardwork108]

And how would you know about Harry Houdini and what he could or could not demonstrate? were you there? do you have video?

the ability to withstand and recover is called internal strength.

if you get hit in the guts and immediately go loose in the bowels and weak in the knees, it's clear you lack internal strength.

If you think of it in terms of overall body development, core strength and ability to use dynamic tension, anywhere, on demand and couple that with increased durability, stamina and core strength, then maybe that's all you need is terminology that you can understand.

When people grind it all down to language issues of english versus translated english and cryptic transmission versus technical transmission in mother tongue, then it is obvious that stuff will get lost in translation.

To get angry about it is simply immaturity. seriously, making demands of people in regards to a subject you are uneducated on is the hallmark of churls. lol

try approaching with a modicum of decency and courtesy and maybe, just maybe someone might feel inclined to impart with something.

Ultimately, a surly attitude will get you nothing but rejected though. Just sayin... :)

Great post except for the fact that you could have used the "knucklehead" reference a couple of times and with good justification.:D


It is amazing how so many people who claim a zillion years of experience in MA or "kung fu" can make ignorant posts. I am talking about Anerleich and not you.:)

All these guys need to do is to research and "empty their glass" a little. There is plenty of information out there even if it won't include the higher and the not so visible training (secret) methodology. However, all they do is look with a "I know everything there is to know, hence I have made up my mind", mindset.

The fault lies with pompousness of many people combined with the incomplete way that kung fu is taught in over 95% of the kwoons out there.

[Hardwork108]

In many cases, when TCMAists speak of internals, they are not speaking of ch'i, but of structural alignments, and relaxed, unified whole body power, rather than relying on tenseness and brute strength.

Excellent point!:)

It is amazing how when the internals are mentioned many modern "kung fu-ists" start visualising chi balls and magic powers and so on. The various ways of unifying the body and their links/references to the internals of TCMA, seem to be beyond the scope of understanding of many self proclaimed "experts" in this forum.

Of course, why should they worry? After all they know BJJ.:D


Nothing mysterious-unless you haven't been exposed to this-especially when it is developed to a high skill level.

Unfortunately with the kung fu scene being what it is most of these guys are not going to be exposed to this type of training. On second thoughts perhaps that is not such a bad thing when one considers the saying that goes something like, "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear".

When I read some of the contributions here I can put my hand on my heart and say that there aren't that many people that are "ready" in this forum.

The relevant truth,"How can one find, if one does not search", applies here. Most of these people seem to be on a different wave length to what is required in even starting the higher level TCMA methodology.



Many have not. It's not DBZ, it's proper practice under qualified instructors.

That easier said than done when considering that many of the ignorant comments on the subject of traditional kung fu, including the internals, come from people who claim to be instructors themselves.....lol,lol,lol.

Lets hope that things change.:)

[Hendrik]

And how would you know about Harry Houdini and what he could or could not demonstrate? were you there? do you have video?

the ability to withstand and recover is called internal strength.

if you get hit in the guts and immediately go loose in the bowels and weak in the knees, it's clear you lack internal strength.

If you think of it in terms of overall body development, core strength and ability to use dynamic tension, anywhere, on demand and couple that with increased durability, stamina and core strength, then maybe that's all you need is terminology that you can understand.

When people grind it all down to language issues of english versus translated english and cryptic transmission versus technical transmission in mother tongue, then it is obvious that stuff will get lost in translation.

To get angry about it is simply immaturity. seriously, making demands of people in regards to a subject you are uneducated on is the hallmark of churls. lol

try approaching with a modicum of decency and courtesy and maybe, just maybe someone might feel inclined to impart with something.

Ultimately, a surly attitude will get you nothing but rejected though. Just sayin... :)



Great post!

[Hendrik]

What is the holistic view of WCK in 1850's?

The following are the factual sample of internal, external, Hard, soft, Yin, and Yang training in SLT/SNT and where were the "technology" evolve from.


These stuffs are a few level deeper then today's general understanding on TCMA. In fact most so called sifu , sigong, or even sijo doesnt know these pre 1900 teaching.




Similar to everyone can take differential equation class in the university but not every one who took the class become the world class mathematician.

Similar to only those who knows differential equation knows what it is and those who knows only basic addition have no clue what is it.



The purpose of I post this classical information which is infact, the SLT101 of 1850, is to share to the general public
so that one can have a proper understanding of ancient TCMA. 150 years ago, Only after can graps the following that one be able to enter into the proper SLT/SNT practice. and have result. and today, by this standard, for the general public, SLT/SNT is 70% dead.


These hundred of years DNA evidence not only shows us what is SLT/SNT or the core of WCK,
it also lead us to know:
WCK is not origin from Shao Lin ,
Wing Chun is not Weng Chun.
Wing Chun is not only Tan Bong Fok..... the advance WCK deal with Momentum flow as state in the kuen kuit.

and also, lots of so called WCK internal training or WCK Taiji connection are a creation of some one within the past 60 years.

in addition, not all internal training is the same, Taiji has Taiji's way, Emei has emei's way, Shao LIn has Shao Lin's way.

IE: the Shao LIn's Yi Jing Jing in an internal art it starts its training with the lung medirian.
Emei 12 zhuang on another hand starts its training with Liver medirian.... eventhought they all use medirians and channel for cultivation, but due to different in channel selection and sequence the result is different.
and ofcorse, taiji has a different way. even among taiji there are different ways......

One must not lump this together and thinking everything is the same.



Well, most of use might not like to hear these. However, those are the facts we all have to face.

Finally, a word for those who keep bring up Internal WCK. Face it if your attainment or even your sigung's attainement is far from the following classic, forget about bring up the Internal WCK, because you dont know and not even train in it. So, what is the point to preach something or judge others on what one have no clue --- isnt that an act of self righteous fantasy?






1,

The following is White Crane of Fujian 1650's example of holistic TCMA platform.

It consist of both the external Momentum and the Internal condition of body.

This is a Kang "hard method" according to the ancient
white Crane Fujian catagorization.



White CRane of Fujian.


<白鶴仙師祖傳真法> 中的 <方七娘白鶴拳十五勢>，就載有 : [跌、砍拳…招陽、……]十五個勢法，並注明如何動作及攻防意義之所在。…….這十五個勢應為當時最早見之於拳譜中的勢 法，當是當時 所傳教的。

比如十五勢拳譜中所寫：

[招 (昭) 陽。白鶴拳法之五：

凡拳起手，只要招 (昭)陽，無論他用何勢，可用此勢，大門放過，小門直入。蓋此勢兩手顧鼻面，短牙顧中攔切，戒分 腳退後。]……。


三) 兩手昭陽、吞吐節力：雙手沉肩、墜肘、坐腕成「昭陽手」，分成三節，肩至肘為內節(根節)，肘 關節為中節， 腕關節為尾節，要做到內節如鐵一般堅實，與肩身成一整體；中節吞墜，尾節如膠如漆，靈活多變。

雙手來去出力發勁，出手時吐氣(吐)，收手時吸氣(吞)，一吞一吐互相配合無間，堅持「中門不 讓，子午不離 」。

練習時與肩、頭、背、胯、膝要貫串一氣，互相呼應，如有橡筋互相牽引、拉扯，吞肩坐節(墜肘) ，發胛力，勁 達指尖。出手時節中隨身與胯同向，不可縮入開出，手節對膝，承接全身各處之力。




2, The following is Emei 12 Zhuang platform ( a creation of 1280's) which goes a few level deeper into the mnd and body into Shen and Qi. This is a Rou "soft " method according to ancient Emei 12 zhuang catagorization



平肩裆‘是天字庄的预备势。姿势要求：两脚平行或稍内扣，与肩同宽，两腿自然直立或膝微屈，两臂自然下垂， 全身重心置于全脚掌，身体要中正不倚；舌抵上腭，口唇轻闭，目光平视，气沉丹田。

　　这一势的要点在平、正二字。气平，其一呼吸要保持平稳，平静，气才能平静，舒畅而不结滞；其二真气要平 ，即内里真气回归丹田，不升降，不开合，保持平的状态，其要领在于二目平视。正立，其一背脊骨自然正直，百 会穴与会阴穴成一垂直线；其二两腿脚平均分担体重，两臂垂下后，双肩无倾斜。平肩裆站好后，气劲自然会发于 三阳经脉，阳主外开，三阴经气机也就自然随之发动。气功动功及武功拳术的架子，一般都从平肩裆起手。在这个 基础上，继可动成两仪三才、四象、五行、六合，七星，八卦、九宫、十方与十二宫辰的变化。平肩裆做为预备势 ，可松静站立几分钟至十几分钟。

　　每个庄架的开头，做好预备势很重要。尤其长起势与长收势更是功益多寡的关键。不能把预备势简单地理解为 预备性质的架子。3次第后，预备势松静后气归丹田，可呼吸配合意念先接天之阳气，后接地之阴气，而后天地气 同接，再进一步忘息后，其身与天地同化，如此松静与内气发动运行，为起式奠定了深厚的基础。

　　武功方面，与人交手时，一种是自己先搭好架子，双目圆睁，电光四射，占领有形之先，再伺机攻防进退，另 一种是自己不搭架子，随意站如平肩裆式，气纳丹田，落于无形，发挥以静制动之用，继再随机腾挪闪展。两派身 手规法各具千秋，常以功意之深浅而定夺胜负


(the following is why the art is not for show off)

本门子孙天字见礼 , 五戒十律存中知耻
前两句非仅言礼节，是再次叮嘱天地二庄在十二庄中的重要性。

‘五戒十律‘，见后附之章文, 我们剔除其中的门派观念和宗教礼仪的说教。取其练功者以德养道，以道修德的涵义，在今人仍有其一定的现实意 义。


佛陀制戒，目的在防非止惡。五戒者：不殺生、不偷盜、不邪淫、不妄語、不飲酒。五戒為一切佛戒之基石，不論 出家或在家皆應遵守。若欲來生得保人身，今生就須淨守五戒。受持一條戒，就有五位護法善神守護，若能受持滿 分五戒，就有二十五位護法善神守護。由戒生定，因定發慧，戒定慧三無漏學成就，即可解脫。因此持守五戒，具 有了生脫死、超凡入聖、成佛種智之殊勝功德。





3, The fusion of the White Crane and Emei becomes the SLT of WCK.

A sample of kuen kuit for practicing SLT passing down by Yik Kam, the red boat actor. Which shows by evidents the fusion taking place.



眼對手 手對心 手從心發 一絲不苟…..

集意会神平肩襠 双手前起半陰阳.....單昭阳


訣云:斯為上乘法,通関開竅有奇功.




PS: some one who know Classical Chinese well want to translate this so that once for all the Western world or even modern East knows what is going on? Please do it.

That is better then keep complaining how the West screw up, no proper teaching....etc. Come on, translate these stuffs and educate everyone so that everyone not screwing up.


anyone to do scientific test? go a head, train it according to the ancient TCMA as the above, test yourself scientifically and see the result for yourself. As the Chinese saying says, Pure Gold have no fear of fire. Facts are facts scientific are good tool to again prove facts are facts.

[scottking]

chee where are you when we need you

[anerlich]

try approaching with a modicum of decency and courtesy

I'll show you mine if you show ne yours.

[Hardwork108]

I'll show you mine if you show ne yours.

I see that your "modern" crosstraining has taken you into new paths.:eek:

Are we at last seeing a more "internal" Anerlich?:D

[sanjuro_ronin]

Seriously.

All this talk of internal this, internal that.

So wheres the proof?

1.) Anyone got any legitimate videos?

2.) And what the hell is internal power, anyway?

3.) Does it give you punching power?
Does it allow you to absorb a punch?

4.) How is it any different from what the human body can normally do, with training?

5.) Anyone ever use it in any legitimate sporting competition? Boxing? MMA? Football? Baseball? ANYTHING?

So nows the time all you DBZ fanatics, put up or shut up

How do you dead lift 350lbs internally?
;)

[Dale Dugas]

By using your structure to lift it rather than only your tendons and muscles.

Use of whole body power and utilization is internal in my opinion.

Plus my door is always open.

Anyone can come hit me anytime, and see that I can accept what you throw at me.

I also would love to be hit both hardwork and boulderdawg as they would finally see what true kung fu training can do for someone.

[sanjuro_ronin]

By using your structure to lift it rather than only your tendons and muscles.

Use of whole body power and utilization is internal in my opinion.


Give that man a Cigar.
:D

[SimonM]

See I'd rather do away with the term "internal" because, really, using your body structure to best advantage should be a universal aspect of martial arts and not a preserve of Taijiquan.

Having done Xingyi (and Taiji for that matter) I never encountered anything that made them really different from other martial training. I thus questioned the "internal" ideal.

The problem is one of words superceeding deeds - people get so attached to the mystical overtones of "internal" that they disregard the actions that make an art "internal" according to any non-mystical definition.

So I'd rather just practice with good structure and leave the word "internal" to the yellow bamboo types.

[sanjuro_ronin]

See I'd rather do away with the term "internal" because, really, using your body structure to best advantage should be a universal aspect of martial arts and not a preserve of Taijiquan.

Having done Xingyi (and Taiji for that matter) I never encountered anything that made them really different from other martial training. I thus questioned the "internal" ideal.

The problem is one of words superceeding deeds - people get so attached to the mystical overtones of "internal" that they disregard the actions that make an art "internal" according to any non-mystical definition.

So I'd rather just practice with good structure and leave the word "internal" to the yellow bamboo types.

You actually hit the nail on the head with the problem in using the term "internal", all the crap that is associated with it.
Ki master getting their butts handed to them by MMA guy.
Yellow bamboo fools.
Over inflated descriptions of parlour tricks.
People with a vested interest in playing the "mystic card".
etc, etc.

[Knifefighter]

If you think of it in terms of overall body development, core strength and ability to use dynamic tension, )
What is dynamic tension?

[Knifefighter]

Plus my door is always open.

Anyone can come hit me anytime, and see that I can accept what you throw at me.

Does it work if they hit you in the face, or is it only in the fat stomach?

Because I know another really fat guy who can take a full on abdominal strike and he's never had a day of training in his life.

[sanjuro_ronin]

What is dynamic tension?

Isokinetics, slef imposed isokinetics.
Sanchin, Iron Wire, that kind of stuff.

[Yoshiyahu]

You actually hit the nail on the head with the problem in using the term "internal", all the crap that is associated with it.
Ki master getting their butts handed to them by MMA guy.
Yellow bamboo fools.
Over inflated descriptions of parlour tricks.
People with a vested interest in playing the "mystic card".
etc, etc.


AS for all the mystical stuff of internal styles. If those tricks were really real. I don't think those with special abilities would openly display them for the public or share them with others. I think if someone possess the ability of True Internal strength that could knock down a standing brick from five feet away or with stand a sharp sword being driven into their chest. That indiviual would hide those abilities and not share them with others.




Isokinetics, slef imposed isokinetics.
Sanchin, Iron Wire, that kind of stuff.

Whats the purpose of Iron Wire and Sanchin in your opinion?

[Phil Redmond]

By using your structure to lift it rather than only your tendons and muscles.

Use of whole body power and utilization is internal in my opinion.
The term internal is abstract and subject to semantics. People can do amazing physical feats with no knowledge of the term "Chi" or internal power.


Plus my door is always open.
Anyone can come hit me anytime, and see that I can accept what you throw at me.
Just my opinion but I'd stay away from that sort of "challenge". You never know who's out there and what there capabilities are. ;)


I also would love to be hit both hardwork and boulderdawg as they would finally see what true kung fu training can do for someone. True Kung Fu training??? No one has sole license to true kung fu so I'm not even going to touch that one.

[sanjuro_ronin]

AS for all the mystical stuff of internal styles. If those tricks were really real. I don't think those with special abilities would openly display them for the public or share them with others. I think if someone possess the ability of True Internal strength that could knock down a standing brick from five feet away or with stand a sharp sword being driven into their chest. That indiviual would hide those abilities and not share them with others.


There were some reknown masters of Qigong that showed their skills publiclly, the famous IP master Master Ku Yu Cheong is one.


Whats the purpose of Iron Wire and Sanchin in your opinion?

Power.
;)

[SimonM]

ASI think if someone possess the ability of True Internal strength that could knock down a standing brick from five feet away or with stand a sharp sword being driven into their chest. That indiviual would hide those abilities and not share them with others.



Speaking for myself: if I could do either of those things I'd be VERY public about it and be laughing all the way to the bank with the $1,000,000 that James Randi has offered to people who can prove such abilities.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Speaking for myself: if I could do either of those things I'd be VERY public about it and be laughing all the way to the bank with the $1,000,000 that James Randi has offered to people who can prove such abilities.

Besides that, public displays were very popular in ancient china, no?
Display skills of that nature doesn't display HOW they got those skills nor any secret "fighting technique", which, understandably, would be kept guarded.

[SimonM]

Precisely.

But it's easy enough for people to get the gullible to drink the kool aid by telling them that you have these great powers but they are secret and not to be publicly demonstrated.

[lkfmdc]

Besides that, public displays were very popular in ancient china, no?



I LOL at people who claim "showing off" isn't something a "master" would do :rolleyes:

[Dale Dugas]

The term internal is abstract and subject to semantics. People can do amazing physical feats with no knowledge of the term "Chi" or internal power.


Just my opinion but I'd stay away from that sort of "challenge". You never know who's out there and what there capabilities are. ;)

True Kung Fu training??? No one has sole license to true kung fu so I'm not even going to touch that one.


Redmond Shifu,

I fly my peac o c k feathers on my sun toi for all to see. I accept any and all, mostly people are afraid to test their hand these days.

The true kung fu remark was aimed at two of the loudest mouthboxers here on the KFM forum who do nothing but mouth box rather than show they are real people with real skills.

I commend you for being a stand up teacher who is not afraid to say who they are and what they do.

too bad there are so many others who whimper, whine and hide.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I LOL at people who claim "showing off" isn't something a "master" would do :rolleyes:

I recall your GM Chan doing Iron head breaks, wire breaking and other Hard Qigong demos.

[SimonM]

I LOL at people who claim "showing off" isn't something a "master" would do :rolleyes:

Well because every master of gongfu was a humble Buddhist monk whose prowess as a fighter was only superceeded by his humility and his piety.

No master of gongfu was a cut throat, a mercenary, or a self-involved physical fitness nut with a superiority complex...

Except for the occasional villain whose only purpose was to provide challenges for the true (pious, humble) gongfu masters to overcome.

Or was Jin Yong lying to me about martial history all this time?

Oh wait...

His heroes are a bunch of womanizing drunks half the time. ;)

[sanjuro_ronin]

Ah, womanizing drunks...:D
If there was one MA character trait to aspire to, that would be it !

[lkfmdc]

I recall your GM Chan doing Iron head breaks, wire breaking and other Hard Qigong demos.

did TONS of them, did them all the time and everywhere....

[sanjuro_ronin]

did TONS of them, did them all the time and everywhere....

You tube is full of them, of old master doing demos, there is that clip from Mind, Body and kick ass moves of the Chow Gar GM doing iron crotch for example and that was on TV, DVD AND youtube !

[lkfmdc]

You tube is full of them, of old master doing demos, there is that clip from Mind, Body and kick ass moves of the Chow Gar GM doing iron crotch for example and that was on TV, DVD AND youtube !

and they loved to "one up" the first guy.... CTS got ****ed when another old coot from Guangdong showed up at Tat Mau's tournament to do chi kung stuff, so off to home depot for more bricks and crap

[sanjuro_ronin]

and they loved to "one up" the first guy.... CTS got ****ed when another old coot from Guangdong showed up at Tat Mau's tournament to do chi kung stuff, so off to home depot for more bricks and crap

It was very common it seems, and always has been.

[Yoshiyahu]

I agree with Hardwork on this subject.

Does that mean there is open invitation for me to hit you too. Where can I hit you?

With gloves or with out gloves?

Will you allow me to do a form and some chi kung infront of you before I hit you with my full body power?



By using your structure to lift it rather than only your tendons and muscles.

Use of whole body power and utilization is internal in my opinion.

Plus my door is always open.

Anyone can come hit me anytime, and see that I can accept what you throw at me.

I also would love to be hit both hardwork and boulderdawg as they would finally see what true kung fu training can do for someone.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I agree with Hardwork on this subject.

Does that mean there is open invitation for me to hit you too. Where can I hit you?

With gloves or with out gloves?

Will you allow me to do a form and some chi kung infront of you before I hit you with my full body power?

Nice knowing you.
Let me know where I can send the flowers.
LOL.

[Yoshiyahu]

Nice knowing you.
Let me know where I can send the flowers.
LOL.

Why nice knowing me? please explain?

he said nothing about hitting back!!!

[sanjuro_ronin]

Why nice knowing me? please explain?

he said nothing about hitting back!!!

The man wears a kilt.
Nuff said.

[Hendrik]

I agree with Hardwork on this subject.

Does that mean there is open invitation for me to hit you too. Where can I hit you?

With gloves or with out gloves?

Will you allow me to do a form and some chi kung infront of you before I hit you with my full body power?



Let's leave Dale alone with appreciation.

Dale shared what he practiced honestly.


Show yourself in Youtube if you like to shared your power and see what people said. May be you are excellent. who knows?

[taai gihk yahn]

In many cases, when TCMAists speak of internals, they are not speaking of ch'i, but of structural alignments, and relaxed, unified whole body power, rather than relying on tenseness and brute strength. Nothing mysterious-unless you haven't been exposed to this-especially when it is devloped to a high skill level.
Many have not. It's not DBZ, it's proper practice under qualified instructors.

well said;

when you train so-called "internal", you are manipulating your body physiology via movement, breathing and regulation of ground reaction force; you are training your autonomic nervous system to become more responsive in certain ways; you are impacting the neuromusculotendinous response to be more efficient, moving in concert with the non-contractile deep fascia which is activated by breath and GRF; quite frankly, there is really nothing all that different about what most styles train as internal and what yogic practice does, it's just contextualized into a combat methodology; you also see aspects of this in other "non-Chinese" systems; this is the "jing" and "qi" (structure / function: both phenomena) aspect of so-called "internal"; it can be trained for fighting and for health, sometimes the same way, other times not;

the partnered end of this is the sticking, listening, suck / spit, repelling etc. stuff you see done in various arts: all the southern short hands have it to varying degrees, the "internal" big three also play this, albeit with a somewhat different "feel" to it; not to pop the bubble, but high-level BJJ / wrestler guys have this particular aspect to varying degrees, although they have not trained it quite the same way

then there is another level, that of "shen", or noumena - this is actually what was considered "true" internal by many sects, and involves practices such as "100 Days Opening"; even this supposedly "mystical" practice is really nothing more than working with the body and mind, the "end" result being that one achieves a state of awareness that allows for an ending to habitual responses, nothing more or less, which is the essence of Ch'an - awareness of suchness

if one has decided ahead of time that this knowledge can only be acquired via "authentic" kung fu training, this is not so - it can be arrived at via many paths; there is also no real time frame - some people "get it" more quickly than others; and, IMPE, most what I have experienced to date, I have been able to explain via a non-TCM perspective (that which I can't yet, well, I'm still working on it!) - which to me, simply validates it even more, as it demonstrates the universality of what it encompasses

in our practice, the way we "show off" our internal, is that whoever lives the longest, happiest, healthiest life is the winner...

[Hendrik]

then there is another level, that of "shen", or noumena - this is actually what was considered "true" internal by many sects, and involves practices such as "100 Days Opening";


even this supposedly "mystical" practice is really nothing more than working with the body and mind, the "end" result being that one achieves a state of awareness that allows for an ending to habitual responses, nothing more or less, which is the essence of Ch'an - awareness of suchness

.................I have been able to explain via a non-TCM perspective (that which I can't yet, well, I'm still working on it!) - which to me, simply validates it even more, as it demonstrates the universality of what it encompasses

interesting, could you please share


1, what is mind?

2, What is shen?

3, What is suchness?

4, is "a state of awareness" suchness?

5, How can one get to suchness from mind and body?

[Dale Dugas]

I agree with Hardwork on this subject.

Does that mean there is open invitation for me to hit you too. Where can I hit you?

With gloves or with out gloves?

Will you allow me to do a form and some chi kung infront of you before I hit you with my full body power?

I will be at the Zhang San Feng Festival (http://www.taichifest.com) the first week in June.

I have people hit me anywhere except the face and the groin. There are no programs where you can make your eyeballs or tests impervious to strikes. The people that do iron crotch pull their testes up into their bodies.

But you can nail me in my xiphoid process or hypochondriac area with what you like.

I should get shirts that read: "I hit Dale Dugas at the Zhang San Feng Festival" as I seem to get hit there a lot.

YY, you are always welcome if you want to make yourself known.

[Knifefighter]

I fly my peac o c k feathers on my sun toi for all to see. I accept any and all, mostly people are afraid to test their hand these days.

The true kung fu remark was aimed at two of the loudest mouthboxers here on the KFM forum who do nothing but mouth box rather than show they are real people with real skills.

LOL... haven't you been posting about what a real kung fu guy you are since about 1920 or so? Yet in all those years, there's not a shred of evidence of you actually going hard against an actual resisting opponent.

[Dale Dugas]

by resisting you mean someone who wants to harm me?

I bounced for a period of years in Boston and Cambridge.

I have had the luck of testing out much in real world applications of my material.

How about yourself?

It seems you can do nothing but whine, whimper and moan .

I feel sorry for you.

I will say prayers for you.

[Knifefighter]

by resisting you mean someone who wants to harm me?

I bounced for a period of years in Boston and Cambridge.

I have had the luck of testing out much in real world applications of my material.

How about yourself?

I've had plenty of real-world experience. However, unlike the true mouthboxers who use the unverifiable "street" as the only evidence for their credibility, I've also done scores of full-contact matches against other skilled opponents that were on public display.

In terms of credibility and providing evidence of your ability, you are no different than the two posters you cited.

[Dale Dugas]

right.

you fight people under rules and referee and think they are the same.

I have been cut, broken, and hurt and Im still around.

I hope you never have to deal with that.

MMA and full contact are good to develop certain skills but they are still unrealistic sports when it comes to actually using your material without hand wraps, and gloves, and a decent warm up and those pesky rules and that referee...

I am now teaching in a great facility that has a ring. They are more than welcome to help.

Anytime you are in Boston you are more than welcome to come taste my art.

Unlike others my door is always open.

[Knifefighter]

you fight people under rules and referee and think they are the same.
Never said they were the same.



I have been cut, broken, and hurt and Im still around.
I hope you never have to deal with that.

MMA and full contact are good to develop certain skills but they are still unrealistic sports when it comes to actually using your material without hand wraps, and gloves, and a decent warm up and those pesky rules and that referee...

LOL @ the guys who think beating up drunks somehow is a mark of credibility and understanding no rules.

Go work in the jail system for a few years and then you and I can have a conversation about what no rules is like.

Friggin mouthboxer.

[Dale Dugas]

again with the whining, whimpering and moaning.

I will say prayers for you.

Your anger will kill you.

[Violent Designs]

Whats the purpose of Iron Wire and Sanchin in your opinion?

Alignment, develop strength, power, through qigong resistance. ;)

[Hardwork108]

By using your structure to lift it rather than only your tendons and muscles.

Use of whole body power and utilization is internal in my opinion.

Mostly correct. I salute you.


Plus my door is always open.

Christ!

Not again!



I also would love to be hit both hardwork and boulderdawg

I don't know about Boulderdawg, but I personally would love to test your "Iron Crotch" technique.:D




as they would finally see what true kung fu training can do for someone.

I have seen what real kung fu training can do for someone and believe me that it has nothing to do with giving one the ability to make false statements/accusations about someone one they don't know while sending obnoxious challenges left, right and center.

Furthermore, real kung fu masters or a sifus don't leave their doors open all the time. The internal training gives these people good memories and they also avoid the cold draft like the plague.;)

[Hardwork108]

Does it work if they hit you in the face, or is it only in the fat stomach?

Because I know another really fat guy who can take a full on abdominal strike and he's never had a day of training in his life.

If Dale has done the correct training then he can take strikes to the chest area as well and back area.

Other advance practitioners can also fortify the neck and side rib areas. It takes a long time and the exercises are not in the public domain and barbells and situps won't do it either.;)

[Hardwork108]

I feel sorry for you.

I will say prayers for you.

Just between me and you, I have been praying for Knifefighter and t_niehoff for years and they are getting worse by the day. Lets save our energies for training shall we?;);)

[Hardwork108]

I've had plenty of real-world experience. However, unlike the true mouthboxers who use the unverifiable "street" as the only evidence for their credibility, I've also done scores of full-contact matches against other skilled opponents that were on public display.

Yes, next time that Dale has a fight he should tell his attacke to wait so that he can get a camera man to film his fighting.:rolleyes:


In terms of credibility and providing evidence of your ability, you are no different than the two posters you cited.

Dale is aware of his own skills and history that are credible irrespective of the fact that many may not have seen the videos of his real life fights.

That means that Dale has the evidence of his own abilities and that is all that matters. If he is a real kung fu man then he is not going to care wether someone like you believes him or not.

For gods sake evolve a little!

[anerlich]

If those tricks were really real. I don't think those with special abilities would openly display them for the public or share them with others. I think if someone possess the ability of True Internal strength that could knock down a standing brick from five feet away or with stand a sharp sword being driven into their chest. That indiviual would hide those abilities and not share them with others.


Perhaps you and Mouthwork108 could follow their example and stop sharing, though "abilities" is the wrong word in your case.

[Yoshiyahu]

You sound like a great human punching bag...So I take it you have iron body?


How does one condition his face...is it possible to have iron face?



I will be at the Zhang San Feng Festival (http://www.taichifest.com) the first week in June.

I have people hit me anywhere except the face and the groin. There are no programs where you can make your eyeballs or tests impervious to strikes. The people that do iron crotch pull their testes up into their bodies.

But you can nail me in my xiphoid process or hypochondriac area with what you like.

I should get shirts that read: "I hit Dale Dugas at the Zhang San Feng Festival" as I seem to get hit there a lot.

YY, you are always welcome if you want to make yourself known.

[Violent Designs]

If Dale has done the correct training then he can take strikes to the chest area as well and back area.

Other advance practitioners can also fortify the neck and side rib areas. It takes a long time and the exercises are not in the public domain and barbells and situps won't do it either.;)

All those areas you speak of, for example, the training of Southern Praying Mantis addresses the internal, and the qigong to develop fortification of those areas.

[Yoshiyahu]

Perhaps you and Mouthwork108 could follow their example and stop sharing, though "abilities" is the wrong word in your case.


Anerlich...Now think for a momemnt...Was your post useful or condscending?

I mean really man? Can you please provide some useful information? I would love to hear it?

Are you for or against Iron Body conditioing Anerlich?

[Dale Dugas]

yy,

on another forum where you post you made mention that you have had 16 years of training in Wing Chun.

Why do you sound like a young person who has not seen much?

Yoshiyahus profile page (http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/member.php?u=17439)

[Yoshiyahu]

I dunno...I keep getting that on this forum...maybe because I asked more questions than spout off information...


Thats interesting though..in this thread which of my post lacks maturity?


yy,

on another forum where you post you made mention that you have had 16 years of training in Wing Chun.

Why do you sound like a young person who has not seen much?

[Dale Dugas]

usually someone with that many years of training has been exposed to different things.

that you ask questions say a 16 year old kid seem to be the norm for you.

that and you do not post any photos, videos or other forms of media illustrating yourself.

That makes me think you are not who you claim to be

[anerlich]

Anerlich...Now think for a momemnt...Was your post useful or condscending?

I mean really man? Can you please provide some useful information? I would love to hear it?

Are you for or against Iron Body conditioing Anerlich?

I've thought for a momemnt [sic]. I think it was useful advice in your case. Folllowing it would not help you, more give relief to the other poor sufferers reading this thread.

Conversing with you would automatically imply condescension for most people on the forum, because you persist in adopting the persona of a borderline illiterate adolescent with an IQ in the mid 70's, for reasons known only to yourself.

Useful information? You'd love to hear it? Why? So you can start pointless rambling arguments full of tall tales and inconsistencies about it like you did on so many of the other recent threads?

How about you provide some useful information, like your real name and who your instructor is? You've got 16 years of Wing Chun training, don't you? Aren't you proud of that and who your teacher is? Or is it all bu11****?

As for body conditioning, I am for it, though I would concentrate on more conventional methods than what (I think) you mean. To each their own.

[Hardwork108]

All those areas you speak of, for example, the training of Southern Praying Mantis addresses the internal, and the qigong to develop fortification of those areas.

Exactly! When Southern Mantis is practiced correctly it can make one's body very resistant to strikes. Then once the body is protected the exponent can put his emphasis in protecting his head/face, while his legs protect the genitals.

[Dale Dugas]

HW,

have you ever trained with Dip Guat Gung at all?

I thought you were the mainland wing chun man?

How about Sam Bo Jin?

Jook Lum Hong Long Pai and the other Nam Hong Long Pai develop incredible power as well as physical ablities.

Though a wing chun man would not understand.

Not at all in the same boat as the training you would get.

Hence my asking.

[Hardwork108]

Anerlich...Now think for a momemnt...Was your post useful or condscending?

He is just insecure because these are subject areas that his Knucklehead Fu does not touch upon.


I mean really man? Can you please provide some useful information?

His useful information is limited to chain punching while in his BJJ kymono. This is called "crosstraining" and it is apparently a "new" fad.




Are you for or against Iron Body conditioing Anerlich?

Anerlich does not have a reference point to answer that question, Yoshiyahu. However, pèrhaps we can ask him to try and spell those two words. That should give his "mind" some much needed exercise.;)

[Hendrik]

HW,

have you ever trained with Dip Guat Gung at all?

I thought you were the mainland wing chun man?

How about Sam Bo Jin?

Jook Lum Hong Long Pai and the other Nam Hong Long Pai develop incredible power as well as physical ablities.

Though a wing chun man would not understand.

Not at all in the same boat as the training you would get.

Hence my asking.




Very Good points.

[Hendrik]

Exactly! When Southern Mantis is practiced correctly it can make one's body very resistant to strikes. Then once the body is protected the exponent can put his emphasis in protecting his head/face, while his legs protect the genitals.


So, where do you stand if you meet one tonight? Run?




Is Miss Wing Chun still alive ?
A good song for this raining night, I like the lyrics
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of8qTXvB2QM&feature=related

[Violent Designs]

So, where do you stand if you meet one tonight? Run?




Is Miss Wing Chun still alive ?
A good song for this raining night, I like the lyrics
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of8qTXvB2QM&feature=related

I like this song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ0HtEi33eE

Enjoy it! ;)

[anerlich]

we can ask him to try and spell those two words

Iron Body Conditioning is three words and I just spelt them.

YY spelt the last one incorrectly in his post.

You misspelt kimono as Kymono in your post.

So we've established YY can't spell, and that you can't count or spell. Nice going!

Your qualifications for criticising anyone on these subjects appears to be on par with those you have for criticising anyone's Kung Fu.

Other than Mouth Boxing.

None.

Back to elementary school, Knuckleheads!

[bennyvt]

is it me or does that dale only post on things where he can sell his crap. Please someone in america punch this idiot. Oh and if you fight someone do you say no head or groin shots.

[CFT]

is it me or does that dale only post on things where he can sell his crap. Please someone in america punch this idiot. Oh and if you fight someone do you say no head or groin shots.Don't be such a knob. If you "fight" someone you're also not going to give them free shots to your body! It's a demo fer cryin' out loud.

[bennyvt]

first it was a free strike, then it was ill take any challenge, now its you can only strike to the body. Sorry i see that as being a knob. Point is why spend years doing it if it only works on the body. Barry used to get a guy who was famous for his elbows to hit him so he would be ok with it. Its not internal. Just conditioning. And if you send a challenge and then make rules then i think you are full me **** .

[CFT]

first it was a free strike, then it was ill take any challenge, now its you can only strike to the body. Sorry i see that as being a knob. Point is why spend years doing it if it only works on the body. Barry used to get a guy who was famous for his elbows to hit him so he would be ok with it. Its not internal. Just conditioning. And if you send a challenge and then make rules then i think you are full me **** .You can't condition your head against violent impact.

[Phil Redmond]

Redmond Shifu,

I fly my peac o c k feathers on my sun toi for all to see. I accept any and all, mostly people are afraid to test their hand these days.

The true kung fu remark was aimed at two of the loudest mouthboxers here on the KFM forum who do nothing but mouth box rather than show they are real people with real skills.

I commend you for being a stand up teacher who is not afraid to say who they are and what they do.

too bad there are so many others who whimper, whine and hide.
It's obvious that you're confident in your skills and that's a good thing.

[Dale Dugas]

is it me or does that dale only post on things where he can sell his crap. Please someone in america punch this idiot. Oh and if you fight someone do you say no head or groin shots.

sell my crap?

interesting coming from the person who claimed they pierced the side of a bucket and other rather tall tales....

I have been making and selling dit da jow for over 15 years.

Im working on my masters in Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine.

Im very open and honest as many here will tell you.

Ask around before you whimper and whine like the rest of the internet unknowns.

[Dale Dugas]

It's obvious that you're confident in your skills and that's a good thing.

Thank you sir.

I look forward to meeting up some day.

Let me know if you ever get to Boston in the near future.

[Dale Dugas]

first it was a free strike, then it was ill take any challenge, now its you can only strike to the body. Sorry i see that as being a knob. Point is why spend years doing it if it only works on the body. Barry used to get a guy who was famous for his elbows to hit him so he would be ok with it. Its not internal. Just conditioning. And if you send a challenge and then make rules then i think you are full me **** .


Again with more whimpering and whining.

I demo free strikes into my body. Front, sides, back, etc....

Anytime you want to post up where you are taking shin kicks to the ribs go ahead.

Until you do you are just whining.

[LSWCTN1]

You can't condition your head against violent impact.

sorry to be a bit of a d1ck, but:

true - but only to a certain extent. Shaolin practice has exercises to condition the head to withstand blows, and a strong neck will help someway to nullify what i am taught is the power in wing chun (eg the elastic, whipping, power we strive to achieve)

this produces a knockout by bashing the brain around the head - a stong neck can take some of this away.

sorry to be pedantic :o

[LSWCTN1]

Again with more whimpering and whining.

I demo free strikes into my body. Front, sides, back, etc....

Anytime you want to post up where you are taking shin kicks to the ribs go ahead.

Until you do you are just whining.

can i ask how this is done?

i know it takes years of practise - i dont mean that

i mean: do you focus some sort of 'internal' energy to the region in anticipation of the strike?

[CFT]

true - but only to a certain extent. Shaolin practice has exercises to condition the head to withstand blows, and a strong neck will help someway to nullify what i am taught is the power in wing chun (eg the elastic, whipping, power we strive to achieve)

this produces a knockout by bashing the brain around the head - a stong neck can take some of this away.

sorry to be pedantic :oNo problem with the way you are posting, you're not making wild and personal allegations against anyone. I do have some questions for you though ...

1) I don't see how a strong neck can stop your brain rattling around inside your skull. It might help prevent whiplash type injuries and help maintain your posture, but otherwise?

2) When the medical profession is calling into question the wisdom in heading a soccer/foot ball, does one really want to actually train impacts to the head?

3) If it works why do professional fighters not use this head conditioning?

[SimonM]

His useful information is limited to chain punching while in his BJJ kymono. This is called "crosstraining" and it is apparently a "new" fad.


Please tell me you are not so ignorant as to mistake a GI (coarse cotton clothes used in JMA adapted from Samurai undergarments) with a kimono (a silk robe worn by women as an outer garment in traditional Japanese culture).

Then again... you are pretty ignorant.

And Knifefighter: Dale has provided more evidence that he can at least take a hit than nearly anyone else on the forum. I don't know how good he really is and, yeah, he can be a real jerk sometimes. But so can you.

I have, however read carefully what both you and Dale have posted over the years, and viewed the various photos and videos you have both provided and based on that information have about as much respect for what the balance of probabilities suggests is the ability both of you likely have as I have for anyone on this forum.

So lay off him.

There are much bigger mouthboxers here than Dale.

[SimonM]

i mean: do you focus some sort of 'internal' energy to the region in anticipation of the strike?

Mostly it's just getting punched a lot that leads to having a "hard" body imo.

I can take a hit better than most. Because I've taken lots of hits. I'll get hit more if I stand around "trying to focus energy" rather than concentrating on knocking the other guy out.

[LSWCTN1]

No problem with the way you are posting, you're not making wild and personal allegations against anyone. I do have some questions for you though ...

1) I don't see how a strong neck can stop your brain rattling around inside your skull. It might help prevent whiplash type injuries and help maintain your posture, but otherwise?

2) When the medical profession is calling into question the wisdom in heading a soccer/foot ball, does one really want to actually train impacts to the head?

3) If it works why do professional fighters not use this head conditioning?

i'll try to answer your questions individually so as not to miss anything (please remember this is just my opinion - based on experience, logic and what i have been taught [though not necessarily in that order :D])

1) a stronger neck will make the head less likely to 'snap' backwards when struck therefore making the ideal scenario ( a knockout) less likely. IMO it works in a simmilar way to rooting. a solid foundation protecting the rest of the structure above it.

not sure if this is a good example but here goes anyway: Mayweather had a free punch when he hit that massive wrestler - the wrestler admitted the punch hurt like hell and broke his nose, but it didnt KO him. mayweathers skill partly relies in his punching ability and speed. imagine mayweather hitting someone his own size with a free shot - 99% of the time its going to knock him out! that wrestlers neck is HUGE and helped to withstand the blow. just something i thought of off the top of my head

2) impact to the fist can cause arthritis some experts claim. yet many continue to condition their hand in one way or another. i'm not agreeing or disagreeing, just offering an opinion on this

3) many proffessionals have varied routines to the next - however in all honesty i dont know of any that practise iron head either. i also dont know of any that practise I.P. (except possibly Kosta Tyszu) but i still hold out that it is very effective. if you teach your body to receive pain then your pain threshold will eventually be lifted - proffessional fighters all do this (although, as i mentioned, i know that they dont all have the same way)

[LSWCTN1]

Mostly it's just getting punched a lot that leads to having a "hard" body imo.

I can take a hit better than most. Because I've taken lots of hits. I'll get hit more if I stand around "trying to focus energy" rather than concentrating on knocking the other guy out.

thats what i thought - thats why i was asking.

i dont know if Mr Dugas really does this or not - if he can it is an admirable skill

my only apprehension with this was that in a real fight you wouldnt have time to 'focus your energy' so the skill (if it is done in this way) would be useless

[lkfmdc]

is it me or does that dale only post on things where he can sell his crap. Please someone in america punch this idiot. Oh and if you fight someone do you say no head or groin shots.

Benny, why don't you go and punch that "idiot"? :rolleyes:

[SimonM]

i dont know if Mr Dugas really does this or not - if he can it is an admirable skill


I've seen video of Dale taking comitted shots and seemingly not noticing them.

In the sake of accuracy and fairness they were body shots and they were thrown by his students however they didn't look like they were pulling the punches.

It could have been staged.

But based on the balance of probability I think that Dale is, at the very least, able to take a punch well. And for that he gets my respect because it's a d@mn sight more than we can say verifiably about most of the other people on this forum.

Likewise I've seen photographs and videos of Knifefighter fighting. And he does so well enough that I respect him for it.

But both of them can be royal @sses when the mood takes them. :cool:

[CFT]

Benny hails from Australia so I don't think it is likely.

[lkfmdc]

Benny hails from Australia so I don't think it is likely.

so, then, and here's a novel idea, why not just STFU then....

[Knifefighter]

And Knifefighter: Dale has provided more evidence that he can at least take a hit than nearly anyone else on the forum.

Really? Where?

[SimonM]

Above referenced video. I can't post a link because it was in a thread I saw over a year ago. However I'd be unsurprised if Dale was willing to repost the video I mentioned.

[Dale Dugas]

I've seen video of Dale taking comitted shots and seemingly not noticing them.

In the sake of accuracy and fairness they were body shots and they were thrown by his students however they didn't look like they were pulling the punches.

It could have been staged.

But based on the balance of probability I think that Dale is, at the very least, able to take a punch well. And for that he gets my respect because it's a d@mn sight more than we can say verifiably about most of the other people on this forum.

Likewise I've seen photographs and videos of Knifefighter fighting. And he does so well enough that I respect him for it.

But both of them can be royal @sses when the mood takes them. :cool:


The video of me demoing Iron Vest has two instructors of the Jiulong Baguazhang Association hitting me.

They are not students and know how to hit hard. It was also not staged. You can click on my logo in my sig and go to my website and click on iron skills and then iron vest. The video is there for all to see.

The camera used was the vid funtion on someones little digital camera. Not the greatest camera to be using. Hopefully get some better film this year with bigger people hitting me.

The two in question are:

Dr. Yancy Orchard from Canada and Bob Maio from New Hampshire.


Also mouthboxers are people who never post anything about themselves. Never show proof of anything. They only do it via their oral cavity hence the moniker Mouth Boxer.

I do not call KF a mouthboxer.

The mouthboxers here know who they are.

[m1k3]

Please tell me you are not so ignorant as to mistake a GI (coarse cotton clothes used in JMA adapted from Samurai undergarments) with a kimono (a silk robe worn by women as an outer garment in traditional Japanese culture).



Uhhh, sorry dude but the Gracies also refer to a Gi as a Kimono.

Royce Gracie Kimono #1 Blue BJJ Uniform by Atama Kimonos http://www.karatedepot.com/un-jj-68.html

:rolleyes:

[Dale Dugas]

Uhhh, sorry dude but the Gracies also refer to a Gi as a Kimono.

Royce Gracie Kimono #1 Blue BJJ Uniform by Atama Kimonos http://www.karatedepot.com/un-jj-68.html

:rolleyes:

Yeah the Brazilians made a mistake and did not correct it.

Oh well....

It is a gi and not a kimono.

[clam61]

By using your structure to lift it rather than only your tendons and muscles.

Use of whole body power and utilization is internal in my opinion.

Plus my door is always open.

Anyone can come hit me anytime, and see that I can accept what you throw at me.

I also would love to be hit both hardwork and boulderdawg as they would finally see what true kung fu training can do for someone.

could you expand on this?

what is "whole body power" and "structure". ultimately any mechanical lifting or movement in general involves only contraction of the muscles to produce movement.

you can alter your body position for leverage

[AdrianK]

I personally would love to test your "Iron Crotch" technique.

Okay, thats goin' in my sig.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Not sure how anyone can cal Dale a mouthboxer....:confused:
He not only has an open door policy ( care it will hit you on the way out), he also goes to that Tai chi hippy festival in a skirt and lets people hit him.
Kinky?
Sure.
Freaky?
Possitively.
Mouthboxing?
Hardly.

[clam61]

where can i find photos/vids of knifefighter fighting?


I
Likewise I've seen photographs and videos of Knifefighter fighting. And he does so well enough that I respect him for it.

But both of them can be royal @sses when the mood takes them. :cool:

[SimonM]

you can alter your body position for leverage

Optimization of leverage and balance.
Correct distribution of weight throughout body.
Correct application of force to direct the force of the body efficiently to the striking surface while minimalizing peripheral loss.

In other words stuff any fighter (hell any athlete) does.

And ask Knifefighter - he posted them. Again this was ages ago... maybe 3 years. :cool:

[Lucas]

ya i remember him posting a couple years back. an mma fight or maybe a jiujitsu match, i forget.

[sanjuro_ronin]

ya i remember him posting a couple years back. an mma fight or maybe a jiujitsu match, i forget.

He was in a couple of the Dog brothers clips too, he is one by the way, and there was also that "WC vs Grappling" clip of Rashad's, that was strickly two guys having fun.
Regardless of his online persona, dale always look like he is enjoying himself, like one should when we do what we love.
He is also a 2nd degree BB in BJJ.
This is knifefighter Dale, not Dale Dugas.

[Lucas]

ya, i know out of the community here KFdale is someone i certainly listen to when he speaks, as i do know he does speak from first hand experience. his opinions and views can be extreme at times regarding certain peoples, but i think all the air heads here get to him sometimes.

it can be hard to sift through the masses on line here. but there are several people here worth paying attention to.

[bennyvt]

the story about the bucket was to show how I ****ed up. I said it was an old bucket (the plastic had gone white) and was brittle. The story was about how my fingers were curved and not straight and that is why it happened. I also explained that I nearly cut my fingers off trying to get it out. I didnt post it as a hey Im great, it was just a story that I found funny. I dont have anything to sell, I have people that I teach but it is for free so I have people to train with, not selling dit dar jow, iron body programs etc.
My point is that you did the whole feather thing about how you would accept any challenge then you add that it is only body shots. Ive seen people take full force shots to the body, they weren't internal masters just guys that got hit alot and have a good core.
No I probably couldn't take a full force shot from some big guy (Im 5"3 and 55kgs) but I can block them which is alot more usefull. As Phil said which you took as a compliment, you must be good cause heaps of good people have been smashed for openly challenging everyone. Emin boztepe (MMA guys showed up and he backed down) and william cheung (the emin thing and also an australian teacher challenged him at his school and he refused) learnt that the hard way.
And I don't put photos or videos on the net, I find it embarrasing. I normally only video myself as a way of checking my techniques and seeing what I have to work on. Barry always said, "while people were taking photos to show how good they are, I trained to make myself better." In all you may not know who I am but the important people know who I am so I dont care. I have trained in hong kong and china and trained with many people. As far as Im concerned the best guy in VT, Barry Lee knows who I am and has said that I am good enough to have a school, (there are only about five in the world that have Barry's permission to have a school in his name). I dont have to prove my training to a circus freak that is good at taking a punch, I block them, it works heaps better.:D

[GlennR]

Touche Benny!!!

Hows Bill by the way.......... if you dont remember me its Glenn from Gosford way many years ago (Nicks senior)
Hope youre well

Glenn

ps. i agree with the body shot thing. I know plenty of guys thta can take big shots to the body and wear them
Maybe us aussies are just a bit tougher ;)

[Mr Punch]

1) I don't see how a strong neck can stop your brain rattling around inside your skull. It might help prevent whiplash type injuries and help maintain your posture, but otherwise?Already covered by LSW but this is well-quoted lore in fighting forums... read a medical study somewhere to back it up too: if I can find it I will.

Nobody really knows what causes a KO physiologically, but there appear to be two main types: there's one when the head gets twisted and there's one when it gets snapped (the whiplash effect). The second one seems to be a double impact of the brain on the inside of the skull. Neck strength supposedly has a direct correlation.


2) When the medical profession is calling into question the wisdom in heading a soccer/foot ball, does one really want to actually train impacts to the head?Chee, I'm surprised at you! 'The medical profession'? Where does he live?! :D You can find a medical professional to support any whackjob BS you care to invent... there're all sorts out there!


3) If it works why do professional fighters not use this head conditioning?Again covered by LWS, but a lot of pro fighters do. Namely pretty much all Thai fighters. Youtube Buakaw: there's a vid of him do some crazy neck exercises including some horrible lifts with a DB in his teeth. Of course, this is for pulling the head out of a clinch, but it also strengthens the neck for impact. Most grapplers do neck bridges IME, and again while this is for placemenmt in the clinch I suspect it makes them a lot harder to KO. Also, have you ever seen a boxer with a pencil neck?!


Uhhh, sorry dude but the Gracies also refer to a Gi as a Kimono.


Yeah the Brazilians made a mistake and did not correct it.

Oh well....

It is a gi and not a kimono.Dale is right. A lot of westerners call juujutsu (the Hepburn romanisation) jiu jitsu and all kinds of horrible things which Japanese people wouldn't understand... which is OK, since these b@stardized forms have entered English. Buuut, check kimono in an English dictionary: it's there as the gown-like court and formal wear item in Japan (women and men), not as a gi (which is... a gi!). Therefore in Japanese and English, kimono means the same, and I for one don't care if the Brazilians use it wrongly, it's more than welcome to enter Portuguese in any way they want it, but I'm against the dumbing down of English because people are too ****ing lazy.

Incidentally, technically, in Japan, any clothes are kimono... so that could include a gi. The literal meaning is 'wearing-things'. But, if you say kimono to a Japanese person they think of the same kimono we do. Nobody would think gi, dougi, youfuku (western clothes) or any other distinction.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BTW, the whole premise of this thread is bull****. Just thought I'd tell ya. There is no internal: there is structure and body mechanics that work and those that don't. If a guy can knock me over, knock me out, submit me or otherwise control me a high percentage of the time, and he has something he can show me that I can use, even if it's a trick I can use immediately with a longer practised deeper method behind it, I'll try to learn from him.

Internal-external is bollocks, and thus so is this thread.

Dale D has certain body skills I would love to learn. I already train a lot, and his way takes a long time, and I don't have a teacher of that kind, so that's that. I'm sure Hendrik could show me a lot, but unfortunately I don't think I'm ever going to meet him either. Robert Chu does things differently from me, but I'm pretty sure I have a good handle on where he's coming from... and when I move back to the UK I will probably look up Alan Orr for seminars and whatnot. KF and the Dog Brothers? Hell yeah, more I'll be looking up when I get back to the UK. Even Ali Rahim, who as all of you probably know round here is the person I think possibly most full of **** on many levels, is probably a very nice guy and could probably teach me a lot. Get it? Why the **** do we have to have these stupid bickering matches like a bunch of old women eraly doors at a jumble sale, I'll never know. Internal/external? Who the **** cares?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One more point: iron body's cool, but since this is a wing chun forum, anyone ever hear of 'iron limbs, tofu body'? Maybe I'm misquoting that, but toughening up your body for conditioning is only one way to go. In my two plus years of full contact MMA I don't know if I can take a body shot... probably not! Why? Because I'm a natural at riding them, sucking them in, shucking them off, angling them away. The one body shot that landed properly was a kick to the solar plexus which really ****ed me up (TKO). So I have 100&#37; failure rate at that... but somehow I don't feel too bad... :D I've done some stuff with systema guys that works very well in getting you to absorb the damage, some in a very similar way to the chun I learnt. (Maybe that's internal - as I said, I don't give a ****) And if you watch Mayweather or Fedor you can see amazing angling, shucking off and absorption.


Maybe us aussies are just a bit tougher ;)Yeah mate, that's because the even sheep carry flick-knives for protection now...! :p :D

[Dale Dugas]

could you expand on this?

what is "whole body power" and "structure". ultimately any mechanical lifting or movement in general involves only contraction of the muscles to produce movement.

you can alter your body position for leverage

I teach this via my classes here in Boston.

You can also host me at your location and I will gladly show you how this concept relates to all martial arts, and life.

Let me know how I can be of service to you.

[Mr Punch]

No I probably couldn't take a full force shot from some big guy (Im 5"3 and 55kgs) but I can block them which is alot more usefull. ...

I dont have to prove my training to a circus freak that is good at taking a punch, I block them, it works heaps better.:DYou see, now you're being snotty and calling Dale a circus freak. Well, he's a big guy, he can handle himself.

But I'm gonna have to call you out on your bull**** now. You can 'block' 'them'? This sounds like you have had any real fights or unrehearsed, scripted practice to me. What percentage of 'them' (ie unrehearsed, random full force strikes/kicks) can you block? Now, maybe if you're talking about covering, occupying your opponent's space, cutting angles, guarding... fair enough... but you specifically mention blocking, which means in my eyes, you're full of ****. And let's see, 100% of the shots that get through are going to hit an iron body: so again, what percentage of full force shots do you think you can effectively block?

[CFT]

Again covered by LWS, but a lot of pro fighters do. Namely pretty much all Thai fighters. Youtube Buakaw: there's a vid of him do some crazy neck exercises including some horrible lifts with a DB in his teeth. Of course, this is for pulling the head out of a clinch, but it also strengthens the neck for impact. Most grapplers do neck bridges IME, and again while this is for placemenmt in the clinch I suspect it makes them a lot harder to KO. Also, have you ever seen a boxer with a pencil neck?!Good post Mr. P. Very informative for me. Got it all off your chest yet? :D

There is training to minimize the effects of impact, and then there is stupidity, i.e. allowing someone to hit your round the head for "conditioning" purposes. See where I'm coming from?

I liked your points about absorbing, deflecting, etc. via the body. These are essentially evasion methods. Perhaps Dale D. can elaborate on his technique? Surely he is not just standing there and taking the punch and kicks to the body? Just because we can't easily discern what he is doing, maybe he is in fact doing what you are saying at a very subtle level?

[Dale Dugas]

the story about the bucket was to show how I ****ed up. I said it was an old bucket (the plastic had gone white) and was brittle. The story was about how my fingers were curved and not straight and that is why it happened. I also explained that I nearly cut my fingers off trying to get it out. I didnt post it as a hey Im great, it was just a story that I found funny. I dont have anything to sell, I have people that I teach but it is for free so I have people to train with, not selling dit dar jow, iron body programs etc.
My point is that you did the whole feather thing about how you would accept any challenge then you add that it is only body shots. Ive seen people take full force shots to the body, they weren't internal masters just guys that got hit alot and have a good core.
No I probably couldn't take a full force shot from some big guy (Im 5"3 and 55kgs) but I can block them which is alot more usefull. As Phil said which you took as a compliment, you must be good cause heaps of good people have been smashed for openly challenging everyone. Emin boztepe (MMA guys showed up and he backed down) and william cheung (the emin thing and also an australian teacher challenged him at his school and he refused) learnt that the hard way.
And I don't put photos or videos on the net, I find it embarrasing. I normally only video myself as a way of checking my techniques and seeing what I have to work on. Barry always said, "while people were taking photos to show how good they are, I trained to make myself better." In all you may not know who I am but the important people know who I am so I dont care. I have trained in hong kong and china and trained with many people. As far as Im concerned the best guy in VT, Barry Lee knows who I am and has said that I am good enough to have a school, (there are only about five in the world that have Barry's permission to have a school in his name). I dont have to prove my training to a circus freak that is good at taking a punch, I block them, it works heaps better.:D


FYI I do not tense when Im being struck, it is not hardening of the core.

Also I would love to see you deal with a real fight where someone was trying to hit you and not work a drill.

As MR. P mentioned, blocking is not really an option in a real fight.

I lived in Australia in High School. I lived in Mackay, Queensland. Great people, and really yummy beer. Though I could do without all the poisonous bugs, snakes and spiders. Holy God there are some nasty things over there.

[Dale Dugas]

Good post Mr. P. Very informative for me. Got it all off your chest yet? :D

There is training to minimize the effects of impact, and then there is stupidity, i.e. allowing someone to hit your round the head for "conditioning" purposes. See where I'm coming from?

I liked your points about absorbing, deflecting, etc. via the body. These are essentially evasion methods. Perhaps Dale D. can elaborate on his technique? Surely he is not just standing there and taking the punch and kicks to the body? Just because we can't easily discern what he is doing, maybe he is in fact doing what you are saying at a very subtle level?

Showing people is much better than jawing about theory.

Martial arts is about doing it, not talking about it.

I teach these skills. If you want them then come get them. It is that simple.

[GlennR]

Yeah mate, that's because the even sheep carry flick-knives for protection now...! :p :D[/QUOTE]

Why do people constantly confuse us with new Zealanders!!!!!! ;)

[Dale Dugas]

its the accent. They cannot tell an Aussie from a Kiwi.

Got some funny stories about finding a cane toad. **** thing scared the ever loving p o o p out of me. Thing was as big as a cat.

[GlennR]

[

As MR. P mentioned, blocking is not really an option in a real fight.


For trhe sake of the conversation define blocking

Glenn

[Yoshiyahu]

I thinking blocking can be done in a real fight...if you train for it...


But intercepting or parring are words best understood...Some people think blocking is a rigid hard action. When it should be fluid and flowing and redirecting the force.


"The idea of blocking is to prevent a strike from making impact by impeding its momentum or pathway by using one of your limbs as means of obstruction."


Just my own personal opinion...


A good block would be a fast pak sau.



[

As MR. P mentioned, blocking is not really an option in a real fight.


For trhe sake of the conversation define blocking

Glenn

[Hendrik]

A good block would be a fast pak sau. ------



Is it so?

[Phil Redmond]

I've seen video of Dale taking comitted shots and seemingly not noticing them.

In the sake of accuracy and fairness they were body shots and they were thrown by his students however they didn't look like they were pulling the punches.

It could have been staged.

But based on the balance of probability I think that Dale is, at the very least, able to take a punch well. And for that he gets my respect because it's a d@mn sight more than we can say verifiably about most of the other people on this forum.

Likewise I've seen photographs and videos of Knifefighter fighting. And he does so well enough that I respect him for it.

But both of them can be royal @sses when the mood takes them. :cool:
Dale and I might not always agree but IMO Dale aka knifefighter, is the most verifiable competition "fighter" on this forum (forgive me if I've missed some one). There are no vids of my fights so anyone who wasn't there can dispute them. But, I have a clip of Dale's MMA fights. Some were bareknuckle.

[lkfmdc]

"knifefighter" is probably the most dangerous person on here, no offense to others, but dog brothers play a very rough game and I also understand he has had "hands on" experience with knife work in prisions. Oh, and he's a black belt in BJJ and those don't come in bubble gum packages...

Dale Dugas, not to be confused with "knifefighter", always struck me as a
no-nonsense guy who is very confident in his skills, a major change from a lot around here :rolleyes:

Oh, and YES, fighters train their necks, the stronger the neck, the less the head moves, the less the head moves, the less chance of being KO'ed

[Yoshiyahu]

Just a simple example of a block...you disagree?



A good block would be a fast pak sau. ------



Is it so?

[Hardwork108]

Uhhh, sorry dude but the Gracies also refer to a Gi as a Kimono.

Royce Gracie Kimono #1 Blue BJJ Uniform by Atama Kimonos http://www.karatedepot.com/un-jj-68.html

:rolleyes:

Thanks for that.:)

I am surprised that even SimonM would get this wrong. After all his forum friend Lkfmdc actually sells kimonos (among other things).

[Hardwork108]

Okay, thats goin' in my sig.

I am glad that something in my posts eventually pleased you.:p

[Violent Designs]

the story about the bucket was to show how I ****ed up. I said it was an old bucket (the plastic had gone white) and was brittle. The story was about how my fingers were curved and not straight and that is why it happened. I also explained that I nearly cut my fingers off trying to get it out. I didnt post it as a hey Im great, it was just a story that I found funny. I dont have anything to sell, I have people that I teach but it is for free so I have people to train with, not selling dit dar jow, iron body programs etc.
My point is that you did the whole feather thing about how you would accept any challenge then you add that it is only body shots. Ive seen people take full force shots to the body, they weren't internal masters just guys that got hit alot and have a good core.
No I probably couldn't take a full force shot from some big guy (Im 5"3 and 55kgs) but I can block them which is alot more usefull. As Phil said which you took as a compliment, you must be good cause heaps of good people have been smashed for openly challenging everyone. Emin boztepe (MMA guys showed up and he backed down) and william cheung (the emin thing and also an australian teacher challenged him at his school and he refused) learnt that the hard way.
And I don't put photos or videos on the net, I find it embarrasing. I normally only video myself as a way of checking my techniques and seeing what I have to work on. Barry always said, "while people were taking photos to show how good they are, I trained to make myself better." In all you may not know who I am but the important people know who I am so I dont care. I have trained in hong kong and china and trained with many people. As far as Im concerned the best guy in VT, Barry Lee knows who I am and has said that I am good enough to have a school, (there are only about five in the world that have Barry's permission to have a school in his name). I dont have to prove my training to a circus freak that is good at taking a punch, I block them, it works heaps better.:D

Blah blah blah go out and learn how to fight before talking crap.

[Hardwork108]

Please tell me you are not so ignorant as to mistake a GI (coarse cotton clothes used in JMA adapted from Samurai undergarments) with a kimono (a silk robe worn by women as an outer garment in traditional Japanese culture).
:rolleyes:


Then again... you are pretty ignorant.
You mean about the "benefits" of referring to glorified kickboxing as kung fu?


There are much bigger mouthboxers here than Dale.
Yes we know, but why draw the attention to yourself?:confused:

[Hardwork108]

So, where do you stand if you meet one tonight? Run?

As things stand at this point in time, yes!:D

[taai gihk yahn]

what is mind?
who is asking



What is shen?
who doesn't know



What is suchness?
100 blows!



is "a state of awareness" suchness?
treading on thin ice...



How can one get to suchness from mind and body?
come on out!

[Hardwork108]

Mostly it's just getting punched a lot that leads to having a "hard" body imo.

Make sure you put that in your up and coming book...lol. You can call your book, "The Knucklehead Way to Iron Body Happiness"....lol,lol,lol.

And he calls me ignorant! Lol,lol.

There is more to Iron Body then getting punched a lot....lol,lol,lol. Christ, you couldn't make this stuff up....lol,lol.


I can take a hit better than most.

On your Iron Skull I presume?



Because I've taken lots of hits.
That I believe.



I'll get hit more if I stand around "trying to focus energy" rather than concentrating on knocking the other guy out.

You have completely and I mean COMPLETELY misunderstood IP training. No one "stands around" while "focusing energy"..Lol,lol,lol.

Research this: Once you have the IP it is often a question of rooting* and "pulling up".
[That will confuse him for a few weeks;)]

*Rooting doesn't mean "standing around"...lol.

[Hardwork108]

Iron Body Conditioning is three words and I just spelt them.

Talk about proving my point.

Us TCMA guys refer to such training as Iron Body and by extension Iron Palm or even Iron Fist, without the need to use the obvious word, "conditioning".;)

You see I was right about you guys not being able to spell it.

It is only referred to Iron Body Conditioning when we discuss the matter with none TCMA people as not to confuse them. Knuckleheads like the word "conditioning" as it has a kind of functional ring to it.;)


YY spelt the last one incorrectly in his post.
If I were you I would worry about your kung fu knowledge and not other people's spelling one.;)


You misspelt kimono as Kymono in your post.
That could be because unlike you I don't wear kimonos.lol.


So we've established YY can't spell, and that you can't count or spell. Nice going!

And we have established that you know j@ck sh&#161;t about TCMA practice, but don't worry as your secret is safe with us.


Your qualifications for criticising anyone on these subjects appears to be on par with those you have for criticising anyone's Kung Fu.

Look at your own qualifications first!


Other than Mouth Boxing.
Everyone "mouthboxes" here wether they like it or not. This is a discussion forum after all.



Back to elementary school, Knuckleheads!

You took the words out of my mind, knucklehead!;)

[SimonM]

"knifefighter" is probably the most dangerous person on here, no offense to others, but dog brothers play a very rough game and i also understand he has had "hands on" experience with knife work in prisions. Oh, and he's a black belt in bjj and those don't come in bubble gum packages...

Dale dugas, not to be confused with "knifefighter", always struck me as a
no-nonsense guy who is very confident in his skills, a major change from a lot around here :rolleyes:


qft

1234567

[lkfmdc]

qft



wtf does that mean? :confused:

[lkfmdc]

QFT

never mind, I "googled it" :D

[taai gihk yahn]

wtf does that mean? :confused:

a true kung fu man would know the answer to that, derrrr

[lkfmdc]

a true kung fu man would know the answer to that, derrrr

you're just a glorified krok chu'er

[taai gihk yahn]

you're just a glorified krok chu'er

you won't catch ME asking anyone the time of day, that's for certain!

[anerlich]

Mouthwork108:
Us TCMA guys

When did TCMA become an acronym for "Mouth Boxing"?


Look at your own qualifications first!

I did. BSc. University of Sydney, Red Sash in TWC from Rick Spain, Machado BJJ Purple Belt.

Unlike yours, mine are independently verifiable, well regarded in MA circles in Australia and world wide and not self-promotions (and not self delusional, like yours are).

You're welcome to come check them out once you've finished with the Columbian nose candy.

[bennyvt]

i never once said i was a good fighter, i never challenged everyone on the vt forum. Yes i block instead of getting hit. Is that stupid. I didnt say i can block anyone, that would be dumb. I get hit by my seniors and juniors all the time. No i dont have video me any fights as i have never competed. The idea that because he was a bouncer that proved something, hey i have been for the last four years. But like all security i have to get drunks out not sober good fighters so i dont think it counts. Hey glen imy is it up there. Bill is good living in china.

[Hardwork108]

Mouthwork108:

When did TCMA become an acronym for "Mouth Boxing"?
At about the same time as Glorified kickboxing became an acronym for "kung fu"?




I did. BSc. University of Sydney,
I believe you.:D


Red Sash in TWC from Rick Spain,
Sorry I don't know Rick Spain and I don't know you. So a red sash from Rick Spain does not really mean anything to me. You must understand that we live in a big planet.;)


Machado BJJ Purple Belt.
A matching MMA closet eh?:D


Unlike yours, mine are independently verifiable, well regarded in MA circles in Australia and world wide and not self-promotions
There are a lot MA artists with verifiable "qualifications" reaping off millions of gullible MA students all over the world. I am not saying that you are one:D, but in this time of Mcdojos/kwoons one must be vary of "kung fu-ists" with "qualifications".



(and not self delusional, like yours are).

Where have I made delusional comments about my qualifications?:confused:


You're welcome to come check them out once you've finished with the Columbian nose candy.

First of all, I don't take drugs.

Secondly, I don't need to check out MA qualifications of anybody here as I have a fair idea about their kung fu knowledge from their actual posts.

Thirdly, I have seen quiet a few "sifus" with "qualifications" when I lived in London, actually we sometimes used to "discuss" these "sifus" during training at the authentic kung fu school that I trained in. Hey you can't have training without a few laughs. ;)

Fourthly, it is COLOMBIA and not Columbia!

Boy, some people's spelling is really bad in this forum.:D

[GlennR]

Hey glen imy is it up there. Bill is good living in china.[/QUOTE]

Hey Benny
Im actually in Sydney now, have been for years and mix my WC with a bit of boxing and muay thai now.
Whats Bill doing in China........ must be connected with WC i guess
Glenn

[bennyvt]

Bill is teaching english in a school. He also does VT classes. Where in sydney are maybe would could hook up and compare some stuff

[GlennR]

Hi Benny
Im right in the City.... Ultimo to be exact.
Let me know if you come to the City at all.... i might even come for a visit up your way.
Say g'day to Bill for me
Glenn

[dim sim]

Hi Benny
Im right in the City.... Ultimo to be exact.
Let me know if you come to the City at all.... i might even come for a visit up your way.
Say g'day to Bill for me
Glenn


Hello GlennR. I sent you a private message to your inbox but it does not show up in my inboxes sent folder. So here's is the question again. Are you GlennR who trained with Sifu Nick in Futshan Wing Chun in Gosford during the early to mid 1990's? Cheers. Dim Sum

[GlennR]

Hey Dim Sum

Yep... thats me

GlennR

[goju]

if anyone wants to see internal power check out that hard chi gung dvd that came with a issue a while back of kung fu magazine
if any one doubts its exsistance after watching that your a moron:D

[goju]

Does it work if they hit you in the face, or is it only in the fat stomach?

Because I know another really fat guy who can take a full on abdominal strike and he's never had a day of training in his life.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D24w5xA19-0

[dim sim]

Hey Dim Sum

Yep... thats me

GlennR



Glenn. I've sent you a private message. Cheers. Dim Sim

[dirtyrat]

How probable would it be if internal arts meant styles taught inside china and external meant arts studied out side china and some were along the way we (today's martial artist) interpit as mystical powers?

Here's an article that can answer that. It's based on honest research.

http://seinenkai.com/articles/henning/il&t.pdf

[Hendrik]

Here's an article that can answer that. It's based on honest research.

http://seinenkai.com/articles/henning/il&t.pdf



It is certainly an honest research however it have not touch the bottom line.


There are three things be it Shao Lin or Tai Ji or........ect Chinese internal art which converted to but most doesnt aware. That tell how many is real deal and how many is just fill with mental speculation trap within their mind set.

[jmd161]

and they loved to "one up" the first guy.... CTS got ****ed when another old coot from Guangdong showed up at Tat Mau's tournament to do chi kung stuff, so off to home depot for more bricks and crap


This is not with all masters though...My sigung hated to demo Black Tiger or any of the other styles he learned, in fact, he rarely did any outside of Hak Fu Mun family. My sifu Has only done two demos his entire life, one in Hong Kong and one in NYC both back in the 70's. Both because he was pressed by friends to do so.

As far as "Internal Powers" go... everyone has different ideals of what it is or isn't, you're not going to get a consensus on this.


jeff:)

[Yoshiyahu]

if anyone wants to see internal power check out that hard chi gung dvd that came with a issue a while back of kung fu magazine
if any one doubts its exsistance after watching that your a moron:D

Can I test out your hard chi kung with my iron shadow. I have been developing my iron shadow for 20 years now. If my Shadow touches one of your 36 pressure that cause death you will not be able to withstand the force.

I have used my iron shadow to destrow wooden dummies and steel dummies. I have used it against Muay Thai and MMA fighters who had to bow down to express Power of my incredible "Iron Shadow"

But don't worry after I have destroyed you. I will resurrect your dead body and repair your injuries so you can cowtow and learn the ways of my "Iron Shadow"

[goju]

Can I test out your hard chi kung with my iron shadow. I have been developing my iron shadow for 20 years now. If my Shadow touches one of your 36 pressure that cause death you will not be able to withstand the force.

I have used my iron shadow to destrow wooden dummies and steel dummies. I have used it against Muay Thai and MMA fighters who had to bow down to express Power of my incredible "Iron Shadow"

But don't worry after I have destroyed you. I will resurrect your dead body and repair your injuries so you can cowtow and learn the ways of my "Iron Shadow"

i have attained an shaolin do green belt you dont want to mess with me:D

[Yoshiyahu]

i have attained an shaolin do green belt you dont want to mess with me:D

Green belts are weak. The white belts are the ones you have to worry about. Their skills are so excellent they are on the status of clearness. Plus the white belt symbolizes mystic powers and invisibilty.

[ChinaBoxer]

I agree with everyone about "real power" is just solid structure, when i say structure i am referring to your "skeletal alignment" and proper use of your tendons, ligaments and muscles in harmony with your skeletal alignment.

Here is a video that i did which touches on this subject...here (http://www.thechinaboxer.com/2009/09/05/power-of-the-stretch/)

[AdrianK]

Green belts are weak. The white belts are the ones you have to worry about. Their skills are so excellent they are on the status of clearness. Plus the white belt symbolizes mystic powers and invisibilty.

Judging from your posts its hard to tell whether you're serious about that or not :D