Throws for MMA [Archive] - Kung Fu Magazine Forums

CaptinPickAxe

04-23-2009, 10:55 AM

Karo Parisyian has some wicked throws. I can't remember the Judo name for it, but in Combat Shuai Chiao it's called Pulling. It's his bread and butter and always impresses.

Too bad he's fallen off the horse....

Damian Maia has an impressive throw or two. His last fight against Chael Sonnen had an impressive throw into a Kimura. That guy is going places....

Katsu Jin Ken

04-23-2009, 11:46 AM

Karo stopped training with Gokor and Judo Gene from what i understand. That could be the reason he's not doing as well lately?!?!?!?!?

lkfmdc

04-23-2009, 02:00 PM

In MMA, head-and-arm/headlocks have the danger when you hit the ground of them taking your back. IE they can be used, but are lower on the list of prefered methods

IMO: sags, outer reaping, ****zers, singles, doubles, snap downs - not necessarily in that order

WinterPalm

04-23-2009, 02:06 PM

Here's what I've had happen to me:

Double/Single: End in guard.
Seoi-Nage/Head and arm/tai-otoshi: have back taken if you fail and can't return to a good position (more BJJ with a Gi but still...)
Fireman: crucifix!

The most important thing is to land in a good position and execute the throw 100% committed. I like doubles into side control and seoi nage into side control or knee on belly (for BJJ with a gi more so).

GreenCloudCLF

04-23-2009, 04:23 PM

10 minutes of Karo talking about throws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cH89qHE68as)

lkfmdc

04-23-2009, 11:15 PM

Here's what I've had happen to me:

Double/Single: End in guard.

the answers to this are (in no particular order); turning the corner, leg control, driving, shoulder pressure adn staying on the balls of your feet

WinterPalm

04-24-2009, 07:28 AM

the answers to this are (in no particular order); turning the corner, leg control, driving, shoulder pressure adn staying on the balls of your feet

Thanks!

The straight forward double leg does lead to being in guard a lot...
I actually prefer the outside single which ends up putting me in half guard if at all.

monji112000

05-01-2009, 01:16 PM

the answers to this are (in no particular order); turning the corner, leg control, driving, shoulder pressure adn staying on the balls of your feet

I have had moderate success with the Judo style double leg ...IE ... football tackle. If you do it from a smart distance (pummel range), and watch out for the guillotine.. it works allot. I think I just surprise people more than anything else. If I do get stuck in someone's guard at that point I'm passing fast.. I hug the knees so its hard to lock a good guard.

I personally think that throws without the gi require a large amount of skill. leg sweeps on the other hand, I believe are amazingly simple to mix with boxing/striking. If you lookup the few Judokas that fought in the WEC you will see what I'm talking about.

Throws work VERY well when countering thai plum style clinch.. but so do sweeps.

monji112000

05-01-2009, 01:19 PM

Thanks!

The straight forward double leg does lead to being in guard a lot...
I actually prefer the outside single which ends up putting me in half guard if at all.

I have been doing singles allot lately.. but they take so much effort.. How do you end up in half guard??

WinterPalm

05-04-2009, 07:24 AM

I have been doing singles allot lately.. but they take so much effort.. How do you end up in half guard??

I usually do an outside single leg and when we hit down a couple guys will get into half guard.
Yesterday during MMA sparring I got triangled immediately after the takedown. Truth be told I'm not used to continuing fighting from standup...San Shou habits I suppose which is why I like to mix the striking/takedown element with the ground fighting.

monji112000

05-08-2009, 10:19 AM

I usually do an outside single leg and when we hit down a couple guys will get into half guard.
Yesterday during MMA sparring I got triangled immediately after the takedown. Truth be told I'm not used to continuing fighting from standup...San Shou habits I suppose which is why I like to mix the striking/takedown element with the ground fighting.

I guess my question wasn't that specific. How are you doing the single and how are you finishing it. Just guessing but are you just driving forward into their halfguard?? Is looking more like a football tackle with one leg?? Have you tried pushing the leg to the side as you fall while driving your shoulder into him? I do my single legs a specific way, (when I can pull them off). but Most of the time I just go with it, and I rarely fail once I have your leg. If your hugging ,driving, keeping a good base ect.. I don't see how you can fall into his halfguard.
I always try to go to the outside of his leg.

are you doing more of a wrestlers single? running the pipe or something?

gwa sow

05-08-2009, 10:57 AM

during karos (last fight?) i think i remember joe rogan saying he had some kind of breakdown or something. he won by desision. kind of a boring fight if i recal. he had a decent throw in the last round that helped him pull it out. without that i think he would have lost.

Old Noob

05-08-2009, 11:11 AM

lkfmdc

05-08-2009, 11:48 AM

that fight was actually overturned because Karo had illegal drugs in his system

WinterPalm

05-08-2009, 01:08 PM

I guess my question wasn't that specific. How are you doing the single and how are you finishing it. Just guessing but are you just driving forward into their halfguard?? Is looking more like a football tackle with one leg?? Have you tried pushing the leg to the side as you fall while driving your shoulder into him? I do my single legs a specific way, (when I can pull them off). but Most of the time I just go with it, and I rarely fail once I have your leg. If your hugging ,driving, keeping a good base ect.. I don't see how you can fall into his halfguard.
I always try to go to the outside of his leg.

are you doing more of a wrestlers single? running the pipe or something?

Not sure how to describe it. Grab the left leg with your head on the outside, hug the leg tight, step back with the right leg, press shoulder to the ground as you turn to your right...good chance his leg will tangle up in yours...not usually an issue for San Shou or San Da but I've been doing a bit more MMA sparring lately against some good BJJ guys and they just get a hold of anything they can...as I'm sure you know!
Better than full guard I suppose...but some guys are pretty technical in the half guard. I just need to shoot my knee through as soon as I take him down.

MasterKiller

05-08-2009, 01:23 PM

Not sure how to describe it. Grab the left leg with your head on the outside, hug the leg tight, step back with the right leg, press shoulder to the ground as you turn to your right...good chance his leg will tangle up in yours...not usually an issue for San Shou or San Da but I've been doing a bit more MMA sparring lately against some good BJJ guys and they just get a hold of anything they can...as I'm sure you know!
Better than full guard I suppose...but some guys are pretty technical in the half guard. I just need to shoot my knee through as soon as I take him down.

You're "running the pipe," not doing a standard single-leg. When you do a single, you should keep your head inside the thigh to avoid a crossface/guillotine, and then turn the corner and drive into them to avoid falling into the guard.

Knifefighter

05-08-2009, 01:35 PM

Not sure how to describe it. Grab the left leg with your head on the outside, hug the leg tight, step back with the right leg, press shoulder to the ground as you turn to your right...good chance his leg will tangle up in yours...not usually an issue for San Shou or San Da but I've been doing a bit more MMA sparring lately against some good BJJ guys and they just get a hold of anything they can...as I'm sure you know!
Better than full guard I suppose...but some guys are pretty technical in the half guard. I just need to shoot my knee through as soon as I take him down.

The head should not be on the outside for a single leg. If it ends up outside, you need to switch to a double or high crotch.

Knifefighter

05-08-2009, 01:36 PM

You're "running the pipe," not doing a standard single-leg. When you do a single, you should keep your head inside the thigh to avoid a crossface/guillotine, and then turn the corner and drive into them to avoid falling into the guard.

Running the pipe requires the head not be outside.

WinterPalm

05-08-2009, 01:38 PM

The head should not be on the outside for a single leg. If it ends up outside, you need to switch to a double or high crotch.

It works well in San Shou and is actually my personal best takedown...but I can see that for MMA I need to change it up a bit.

MasterKiller

05-08-2009, 01:40 PM

Running the pipe (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqdoHogzpCs)

WinterPalm

05-08-2009, 01:44 PM

At :55 in this clip is what I'm talking about but when it's not a demo you fight more and sometimes end up getting dragged down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5Xy579B5eA&feature=related

monji112000

05-08-2009, 02:14 PM

At :55 in this clip is what I'm talking about but when it's not a demo you fight more and sometimes end up getting dragged down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5Xy579B5eA&feature=related

I'll try not to sound like a *******, but just think about things logically. The guy in the clip you posted at :55 if he continues to just drive forward will end up in some type of guard. He is putting himself in-between the persons legs..
When I do my singles (ok I'm not a wrestler so don't pretend my technique is the best), I'm always thinking about putting myself on the outside of his legs. I'm also thinking about getting as close to his body as possible. my posture is straight so I can lift his leg. Again I'm not a wrestler. I have given up on having a good penetration step ect.. atleast for today.

if your going to run the pipe (I hate that technique) then again logically I would agree with Knifefighter.. but I'm really not a good person to listen too on this topic.

I would prefer this clip to yours.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5-s5cEAFDA
I don't do penetration steps anymore.. but his body position is how I want to be.

Knifefighter

05-08-2009, 02:21 PM

Running the pipe (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqdoHogzpCs)

Yep... notice how the head stays in the chest.

Knifefighter

05-08-2009, 02:24 PM

At :55 in this clip is what I'm talking about but when it's not a demo you fight more and sometimes end up getting dragged down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5Xy579B5eA&feature=related

Even though that was more of a low single, it's still a bad way to go for one leg. Best case you end up in the oppt's half or full guard... worst case, you get crossfaced and he takes your back.

WinterPalm

05-08-2009, 03:03 PM

Monji, Knife:

Like I said...it works well in San Shou when that isn't such an issue. And it is a great takedown for that format. I'm only now dealing with it in the context of prolonged fighting, ie submission grappling.
This is one of those things where sport specific rules have influenced my technique choices and I am now slowly reworking them.
The inside single is something I need to work on.

Knifefighter

05-08-2009, 03:06 PM

Monji, Knife:

Like I said...it works well in San Shou when that isn't such an issue. And it is a great takedown for that format. .
Actually, it would be an issue for anyone familiar with a cross-face.

WinterPalm

05-08-2009, 03:51 PM

Actually, it would be an issue for anyone familiar with a cross-face.

Is that just hooking the arm across the face? I'm not too familiar with the names to most grappling things.

MasterKiller

05-08-2009, 07:03 PM

Is that just hooking the arm across the face? I'm not too familiar with the names to most grappling things.

Crossfacing is when you crank their head/neck back/to the side. In this scenario, if his head is on your left side, you can grab his right elbow with your left arm and push his head back with your chest/bicep. Sprawling makes this counter even more effective. It tends to dissipates their forward momentum and hurts like a muther.

Crossface video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtxTBZWJkDk&feature=PlayList&p=76410E025D2DE73D&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=9)

lkfmdc

05-08-2009, 07:54 PM

knife, never heard of a head outside snatch single?

Knifefighter

05-11-2009, 11:30 AM

knife, never heard of a head outside snatch single?

The head doesn't go to the outside on a snatch single.

lkfmdc

05-11-2009, 03:28 PM

The head doesn't go to the outside on a snatch single.

maybe I am calling it the wrong name, but we do a single with head outside, learned it from both Randy and our coach who wrestled for OSU. Works just fine...

Kansuke

05-11-2009, 03:44 PM

Kansuke

05-11-2009, 03:45 PM

Running the pipe requires the head not be outside.

Well, the head may end up outside at some point during the finish depending upon what sort of scramble you may be in.

Kansuke

05-11-2009, 03:50 PM

Crossfacing is when you crank their head/neck back/to the side. In this scenario, if his head is on your left side, you can grab his right elbow with your left arm and push his head back with your chest/bicep. Sprawling makes this counter even more effective. It tends to dissipates their forward momentum and hurts like a muther.

Crossface video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtxTBZWJkDk&feature=PlayList&p=76410E025D2DE73D&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=9)

The majority of the 'work' of a crossface will be done, at least primarily, with the forearm. Smashing the bony part of the forearm across (and maybe up a bit) the opponent's face just under his nose can create some nice discomfort. Depending on where the ref is you can make it essentially a strike.

MasterKiller

05-11-2009, 06:53 PM

The majority of the 'work' of a crossface will be done, at least primarily, with the forearm. Smashing the bony part of the forearm across (and maybe up a bit) the opponent's face just under his nose can create some nice discomfort. Depending on where the ref is you can make it essentially a strike.

Yeah, that makes more sense. Bicep was the wrong word there, but visualizing something you do all the time and doing something you do all the time don't always sync up for me.

When people ask me about techniques, I usually have to say "OK, do it to me" before I can explain the counter, etc...