The Wrestler should have been Best Picture

[MasterKiller]

Fantastic movie.

[doug maverick]

i agree it wasbetter then slumdog. i like slumdog but it wasnt a best picture type of movie. but its a political thing, hollywood is trying to prove the bollywood is bankable to finddifferent lines of money. but slumdog while having an unknown all indian cast is not a bollywood film, not in the least.well except for the absolute end.

[BoulderDawg]

A good movie. I really liked the park of the daughter. Some people will say, "Yeah, that's her dad and she shouldn't talk like that" but sometimes just for your own sanity you have move on and call it a lost cause.

I did notice they walked a little on tippie toes not to make the promoters look like villians.

I never really bought the Marisa Tomei role. Although she is very beautiful she's also in her mid 40s. Strippers just don't work into their mid 40s...hell, I'd say a big percentage of them don't even make it to their mid 40s. I think it would have been better had she been in another line of work.

The ending was excellent! I couldn't think of a better way to end that movie.

[doug maverick]

A good movie. I really liked the park of the daughter. Some people will say, "Yeah, that's her dad and she shouldn't talk like that" but sometimes just for your own sanity you have move on and call it a lost cause.

I did notice they walked a little on tippie toes not to make the promoters look like villians.

I never really bought the Marisa Tomei role. Although she is very beautiful she's also in her mid 40s. Strippers just don't work into their mid 40s...hell, I'd say a big percentage of them don't even make it to their mid 40s. I think it would have been better had she been in another line of work.

The ending was excellent! I couldn't think of a better way to end that movie.

im gonna have to stop ya there bruddah. strippers do work in their mid forties. alot of them. you go out to the square states or jersey. or even in cali. you got plenty of forty year old strippers. i was researching this movie i wrote and am going to shoot later this year, and interviewed tons of strippers, prostitutes, porn stars. and you got a bunch that are over forty. you just dont know it.dont believe me go to a strip club an hour after last call when everyone is hammered to death. and go sober you will see them.

[BoulderDawg]

The only experience I go by is from my friend in Florida. He owned a couple of strip joints for about five years.

After spending a lot of time down there and hearing him talk about the biz is where I formed my opinions. On the occasions I went down there he had one or two girls who were in their early 30s but looked a look older. The rest of the girls were from 18-24.

The logic behind it was simple. 90% of the guys out there (no matter their age) want to see young girls. So why hire some stripper in their 40s when you have 3-4 girls a week in their late teens/early 20s who come in looking for a job?

And I don't how much time you have spent with strippers but these are not nice girls. Over half the girls at my friend's place had severe drugs problems among other things. If they do make it to 40 chances are they look 50 or 60.

[doug maverick]

it all depends, most had drug problems, some didnt. one actually had a masters degree in ethics.

[Lucas]

some chicks are just freaks and love dancing naked in front of a room full of men.

oh and dont forget that chicks are attracted to money like filings to a lodestone

[doug maverick]

dude you just said it.sometimes broads dont want to work hard, stripping is easy money. and depending on where you at it could be lots of easy money.

[mickey]

Greetings,

I do agree that "the Wrestler" should have been Best Picture. I also think that Mickey Rourke should have received Best Actor. And while I am at it, rourke should have received at least a Best Actor nomination for his work in Sin City.


mickey

[AdrianK]

Darren Aronofsky is a great director and I definitely thought it was a better movie than Slumdog(which was good, just not great).

But c'mon, Marisa Tomei finally shows her tits and they look fantastic. I've been waiting 20 years to see those tits.
Give her an oscar. And give Aronofsky an oscar and a medal for making it happen. :D

[GeneChing]

I really wanted to like the Wrestler but it was so painfully predictable that I just couldn't get into it. I kept waiting for it to go some place novel and interesting, but every plot device was so obvious. I don't get what everyone sees in this film. I found it really disappointing.

[BoulderDawg]

But you know life is painfully predictable in most cases.

I guess they could have made a Hollywood movie where he patches up things with his daughter, gets off the drugs, get healthy and gets the girl. They could have done that but it would not have been real.

You know this guy's a loser and has always been a loser. Rarely.....very rarely at that age do we make lifestyle changes that are good for us.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I really wanted to like the Wrestler but it was so painfully predictable that I just couldn't get into it. I kept waiting for it to go some place novel and interesting, but every plot device was so obvious. I don't get what everyone sees in this film. I found it really disappointing.

I agree with you Gene, as much as I liked Mickey performance, it was very predicatable and the ending was a given.

[MasterKiller]

I really wanted to like the Wrestler but it was so painfully predictable that I just couldn't get into it. I kept waiting for it to go some place novel and interesting, but every plot device was so obvious. I don't get what everyone sees in this film. I found it really disappointing.

I'd rather read about a live American bum than a dead Greek god. -- Charles Bukowski.

[GeneChing]

...that I have a soft spot for professional wrestling. I was a huge fan in high school/early college. I had a group of friends that used to buy tickets for shows at the Cow Palace, slam a sixer or two in the lot, and go have a grand time. This was prior to the rise of WWE, all AWA and NWA stuff. I was a huge fan of Baron Von Raschke and the Road Warriors. So again, I really wanted to like this film.

I was fine with the collision course nature of the story arc. That's not what disappointed me at all. I was just expecting it to go somewhere surprising, somewhere really revealing. When I say it was predictable for me, I mean I could call most of the scenes before they happened.

Maybe I just got too much hype beforehand with the Oscars et.al. and was expecting more.

[MasterKiller]

Maybe I just got too much hype beforehand with the Oscars et.al. and was expecting more.

I can't remember the last time a movie did something I didn't expect. There are several chances for the film makers here to take an easy out...reconciling with his daughter, accepting a new role in life, being saved by a relationship...but they don't take it. Instead, you just get the story of a man who has made bad decisions, keeps making bad decisions, and eventually comes to terms with that. In the end, he climbs on the ropes, knowing the consequences, and makes a conscious decision to go out on his sword.

"The Ram" could have been a Raymond Carver protagonist. Flawed, unlikable, but completely real.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I can't remember the last time a movie did something I didn't expect. There are several chances for the film makers here to take an easy out...reconciling with his daughter, accepting a new role in life, being saved by a relationship...but they don't take it. Instead, you just get the story of a man who has made bad decisions, keeps making bad decisions, and eventually comes to terms with that. In the end, he climbs on the ropes, knowing the consequences, and makes a conscious decision to go out on his sword.

"The Ram" could have been a Raymond Carver protagonist. Flawed, unlikable, but completely real.

He took the easy way out...
Which was typical of how he led his life.
Don't get me wrong, it was a good movie, just not a great one.

[GeneChing]

...for the filmmakers, I mean. If they do a happy ending, with reconciliation, redemption, recovery, whatev, I don't think that's anymore marketable for an R rated film, nor do I think that's any easier to write, direct or film. But I begin to see what you see in it, MK. There is a certain nobility to staying the course, even if that means self destruction, for Ram.

Maybe it's because I hate Mickey Rourke. I hated him when he stuck his ****** in the popcorn in Diner. I hated him when played big-white-man-on campus in Year of the Dragon. I hated him when he fed Kim cough syrup in 9 1/2 weeks. Sure, it's his big comeback and he's all buff now, but do we really have to see his bare ass twice? He's just overrated, just like the Wrestler. :p

[MasterKiller]

...for the filmmakers, I mean. If they do a happy ending, with reconciliation, redemption, recovery, whatev, I don't think that's anymore marketable for an R rated film, nor do I think that's any easier to write, direct or film. But I begin to see what you see in it, MK. There is a certain nobility to staying the course, even if that means self destruction, for Ram.

Maybe it's because I hate Mickey Rourke. I hated him when he stuck his ****** in the popcorn in Diner. I hated him when played big-white-man-on campus in Year of the Dragon. I hated him when he fed Kim cough syrup in 9 1/2 weeks. Sure, it's his big comeback and he's all buff now, but do we really have to see his bare ass twice? He's just overrated, just like the Wrestler. :p

WHAT? Mickey Rourke has quite possibly the best line ever muttered in a movie. From Harley Davidson and the Marlboro Man: "It's better to be dead and cool, than alive and uncool."

[GeneChing]

Never saw that flick. I imagine you recommend it then MK?

[MasterKiller]

Never saw that flick. I imagine you recommend it then MK?

It's a guy movie, on literary par with such classics as Lionheart, Lethal Weapon 4, or RoboCop. ;)

[BoulderDawg]

Just joining in the debate of the "good" verses "great" film.

Just in my opinion, "Greatness" is a high, high level only given to a limited number of films. Wrestler is not a great film. However, just off the top of my head-I might be missing one or two, there hasn't been any "great" films in the last decade.

I thought the Wrestler was a very good film. The one thing that really struck me was that in the years he spent on the circuit wrestling he never made any friends or contacts that could help him get a good job after retirement althought it appeared he was well respected in his wrestling community.

[GeneChing]

Well I liked all those films. Maybe I'll rent it someday.

I hear what you're saying about Wrestler being 'real'. Ironically, it reminds me of the discussion I had with RZA about Slumdog vs. Benjamin Button the last time he was through (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=899353&postcount=14). As you know, I'm a big fan of Slumdog. I love Bollywood and actually spent time at some of the film's locations like Mumbai and Taj. I've even been through that train station. Anyway, RZA's take was that Slumdog was too real, that this reflected what he saw growing up in the ghetto to some degree, and he preferred Benjamin because it was so fantastic. It took him out of his reality for a moment. I hadn't seen Benjamin yet (still haven't), but I thought that was an interesting take on it all.

One thing I didn't find 'real' was the depiction of the wrestling community. I can't see them all applauding for Ram like that after a match. That just seemed out of touch with reality. I'm also at odds with the stripper with a heart of gold stereotype. While some of those might exist, I think that's really more of a scriptwriter-who-goes-to-a-lot-of-strip-clubs fantasy.

[BoulderDawg]

One thing I didn't find 'real' was the depiction of the wrestling community. I can't see them all applauding for Ram like that after a match. That just seemed out of touch with reality. I'm also at odds with the stripper with a heart of gold stereotype. While some of those might exist, I think that's really more of a scriptwriter-who-goes-to-a-lot-of-strip-clubs fantasy.

Agreed with the stripper story line. That was the weakest part of the movie.

However I could see a group of wrestlers clapping for one of their peers after a good match....especially an old timer who been there forever. Now that said the one thing that has always stuck me about the wrestling community is how private they are. As in any workplace you are going to have people working together who hate each yet, unlike pro sports, you rarely hear of any arguments or fights in the locker room. And I've never seen a pro wrestling match that appeared to get out of hand...Which I think is pretty amazing considering what they do.

[doug maverick]

Well I liked all those films. Maybe I'll rent it someday.

I hear what you're saying about Wrestler being 'real'. Ironically, it reminds me of the discussion I had with RZA about Slumdog vs. Benjamin Button the last time he was through (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=899353&postcount=14). As you know, I'm a big fan of Slumdog. I love Bollywood and actually spent time at some of the film's locations like Mumbai and Taj. I've even been through that train station. Anyway, RZA's take was that Slumdog was too real, that this reflected what he saw growing up in the ghetto to some degree, and he preferred Benjamin because it was so fantastic. It took him out of his reality for a moment. I hadn't seen Benjamin yet (still haven't), but I thought that was an interesting take on it all.

One thing I didn't find 'real' was the depiction of the wrestling community. I can't see them all applauding for Ram like that after a match. That just seemed out of touch with reality. I'm also at odds with the stripper with a heart of gold stereotype. While some of those might exist, I think that's really more of a scriptwriter-who-goes-to-a-lot-of-strip-clubs fantasy.

well idk if tomeis character had a heart of gold...she was an middle age women still stripping, and here was this guy, who genuinely liked her and always requested her. it wasnt that she had a heart of gold, it was that here she is stripping at her age, she needed an end game, but at the same time here is this guy who is always protecting her. so ofcourse that damsel in distress syndrome kicks in.


as for slumdog......i grew up in the south bronx, which was branded "little vietnam" by ronald raegan, and it was still a billion times better then that hell hole those kids were in, rza is from SI and Staten island aint the south bronx.... so idk asbout reminding him of ny "ghettos". button was good but it was a poor mans forest gump...

also gene speaking as someone who is friends with pro wrestlers if a vet comes into a building you show respect.....and applauding him is a mark sign of that. ram had his own toy and was in a video game. most of those guys wanted that as well.so ofcourse they aplauded him. its like when Mike J. came back with the wizards and all the young bballers ke[t askling hiom for his shoes...

[GeneChing]

Check out the interview of Mickey & Roddy by Jimmy Kimmel. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxAaUp1FdVM) At 4:10, he comments that he felt the that the clapping was "Hollywood". Of course, Piper has a doll and a video game. He's one of the most successful of the lot.

As for Tomei, y'all seem quite fixated on the fact that she's over 40. But she's still smokin' hot. She's also got the moves. I'm sure a woman of her caliber could do just fine as a pro stripper. Hell, I'd drop a $20 on a lapdance from Marisa. Seriously, who here wouldn't?

Doug, I hear you on SI vs Mumbai, and to be fair, RZA's comment is a little out of context. Keep in mind, he can talk really fast and he gets totally worked up when it comes to talking film (especially MA films) so we were talking about a lot at a break neck speed. But he didn't mean his Slumdog comment as a direct comparison. His point, if I might be so bold, was more about the tone of the films. He prefers escapist films over 'reality'. I could see that, although I tend to go the other direction.

[doug maverick]

Check out the interview of Mickey & Roddy by Jimmy Kimmel. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxAaUp1FdVM) At 4:10, he comments that he felt the that the clapping was "Hollywood". Of course, Piper has a doll and a video game. He's one of the most successful of the lot.

As for Tomei, y'all seem quite fixated on the fact that she's over 40. But she's still smokin' hot. She's also got the moves. I'm sure a woman of her caliber could do just fine as a pro stripper. Hell, I'd drop a $20 on a lapdance from Marisa. Seriously, who here wouldn't?

Doug, I hear you on SI vs Mumbai, and to be fair, RZA's comment is a little out of context. Keep in mind, he can talk really fast and he gets totally worked up when it comes to talking film (especially MA films) so we were talking about a lot at a break neck speed. But he didn't mean his Slumdog comment as a direct comparison. His point, if I might be so bold, was more about the tone of the films. He prefers escapist films over 'reality'. I could see that, although I tend to go the other direction.

ok i get it..,. and actually i should have gotten it this morning but i just came home from a 13 hour film shoot so forgive me, actually im with rza on that, i prefer escapist films myself, i think every film to be really effective needs a level of fantasy in order to succeed. i mean if every film was a play by play of life, nobody would go see them they could just look out there window.

[BoulderDawg]

As for Tomei, y'all seem quite fixated on the fact that she's over 40. But she's still smokin' hot. She's also got the moves. I'm sure a woman of her caliber could do just fine as a pro stripper. Hell, I'd drop a $20 on a lapdance from Marisa. Seriously, who here wouldn't?

As I said before, even if a stipper makes it to her mid 40s the chances are she's not going to look like that......and she's sure not going to be still stripping.

As far as escapist film goes: I enjoy them from time to time but the Benjamin Button movie just never made it in my opinion. For one thing no one really explained how somebody could age backwards.