Training the "12 keyword" principles

[Tensei85]

Hey,
Just wanted to start a thread on how each family or style would train the 12 keywords in more of a responsive or reactional environment? So in other words more of a San Da approach.
Again any info is much appreciated.
Thanks

[MightyB]

basically just like I said in the other thread: Sub Sa Lo - then individual techniques with application - and sparring. Starting with 1 technique at a time (before linking combos) - then - after a bit-o-time, simple combos with an emphasis on the mechanics of tu sau (intercepting hand) as a linking device for strikes, throws, and locks.

[Tensei85]

So how would you train stance work? and when showing techniques for instance would you train the exact sequence used in sap sei lo "technique by "technique? Or would you mix it up a bit?

[MightyB]

So how would you train stance work? and when showing techniques for instance would you train the exact sequence used in sap sei lo "technique by "technique? Or would you mix it up a bit?

In the old days- we used to do Jou Bo and walking the circle - there were a couple of other 2 person exercises that we did also. Ask Dai Si Hing to show you.

[MightyB]

So how would you train stance work? and when showing techniques for instance would you train the exact sequence used in sap sei lo "technique by "technique? Or would you mix it up a bit?

Yeah- definitely mix it up in applications- but not as it goes as a "form". Again, I see sub as a drill- not as a sequence, but I'd teach it in the same order and way that I was taught.

[mantis108]

From the Greater Meiwha line perspective, there are 2 ways to drill the 12 keywords. the very basic drill to train the 12 key words is hook-grab-pluck. This is the mother of all drills in mantis. Then you would progress to Feng Shou, sealing hand drill. You will also learn the 5 leaks with the Feng Shou. Once you have good grasp of the basic idea of these then you will train the Pi Zha Wu Shou (splitting and chopping 5 hands) for the concept of Gang (hard) and Zhan Nian Shou (sticking hands) for the concept of Rou (flexible). At this point you are already learning the entry methods and various Chin Na and take down.

For throws and take down, I teach the Kao Da method. There is also an old short form called the Lian Wu Shou Qi Yao (linking five hands)

The above concepts can be learn through forms such as 7 hands and Pai An (slap press) or reinforce/brush up the concepts by them. The more intricate one would be Tao hua San (plum flower blossoms) and/or 7 star's Tou Jie (steal and intercept). This allows you to get the feel of the flow of movements.

After that, you will do a series of Shou Fa (single moves) that teach the finishing moves(actually, we start this right on day one so...)

That's the traditional fight method training of Tanglang in a nutshell.

Mantis108

[MightyB]

From the Greater Meiwha line perspective, there are 2 ways to drill the 12 keywords. the very basic drill to train the 12 key words is hook-grab-pluck. This is the mother of all drills in mantis. Then you would progress to Feng Shou, sealing hand drill. You will also learn the 5 leaks with the Feng Shou. Once you have good grasp of the basic idea of these then you will train the Pi Zha Wu Shou (splitting and chopping 5 hands) for the concept of Gang (hard) and Zhan Nian Shou (sticking hands) for the concept of Rou (flexible). At this point you are already learning the entry methods and various Chin Na and take down.

For throws and take down, I teach the Kao Da method. There is also an old short form called the Lian Wu Shou Qi Yao (linking five hands)

The above concepts can be learn through forms such as 7 hands and Pai An (slap press) or reinforce/brush up the concepts by them. The more intricate one would be Tao hua San (plum flower blossoms) and/or 7 star's Tou Jie (steal and intercept). This allows you to get the feel of the flow of movements.

After that, you will do a series of Shou Fa (single moves) that teach the finishing moves(actually, we start this right on day one so...)

That's the traditional fight method training of Tanglang in a nutshell.

Mantis108

I Like it - basically you've been doing what I think is ideal.

Don't get me wrong Tensei from this and the basic forms thread- I'm very traditional- I just think that too much too soon can be very confusing even though most students think that's what they want.