OT: Pacquiao Vs. Hatton

[AdrianK]

Did anyone see it? It was amazing. Two brutal knockdowns in the first, with a lights out KO in the second round.

Pacquiao is simply amazing. It seems he has power in his hands at any weight, but his masterful display tonight made a 140lb'er look like he had power equal to anyone in 147(welterweight).

Incredible. I feel bad for Hatton, hes a good guy, but Pacquiao demolished him in a way that words can't even begin to describe.

[IronFist]

i saw lots of commercials for it but didn't see it.

So it's worth downloading, you're saying?

[AdrianK]

Definitely. Even if you're not a boxing fan, its like a 6 minute highlight reel of everything that makes pacquiao great.

[Pork Chop]

He's been my favorite fighter since the first Barrera fight and even still that shot amazed me. Perfectly timed, perfectly thrown, that shot almost decapitated poor Ricky. Sad thing is I like Hatton too, was rooting for him against Kostya. I hope Manny takes out Mayweather, who's awesome skills often aren't enough to make me ignore his personality.

[AdrianK]

He's definitely got the power in his hands to stand with the welterweights. I think a Pacman vs. Cotto fight would be epic. A Mosley fight would be great too but I honestly think Mosley is a little too big and if he fought like he fought against Margarito, I don't know if Pacquiao could take it.

Mayweather is a tough one though. Mayweather's not the toughest boxer in the sport... but he's an amazing boxer. I think with the power manny displayed he could drop Mayweather, but likewise Mayweather has enough power to drop him.

I think the Marquez fight is really going to show how Mayweather would do in a fight against Pacquiao... not because their styles are similar, but Marquez is such a smart fighter but he might be a little too small for Mayweather, and on top of that Marquez doesn't have the best chin... but his counter-punching abilities are first-rate incredible. His demolition of Juan Diaz was amazing. Even if Marquez loses, if he's able to consistently counter Mayweather, there's an opening pacquiao and roach can study. Pacquiao would have a genuine KO chance. But Mayweather's hard as hell just to hit in the first place.

Boxing is incredibly exciting right now, as long as you ignore most anything put on by Don King :D

[David Jamieson]

I'm laughing about the movement in the Fil to make the dude president!

Talk about non sequitur.

Great boxer though!

[Pork Chop]

I think JMM's chin is underrated.
Yeah, he's been dropped multiple times by Pac, but he always gets up.
He's gone what, 24 rounds against Pac?

Mosely said he couldn't make 142, so Roach wasn't confident about a match with him. I think it would be a great fight, but can't see Pac winning that one.

I think Pac can blow out most people in his weight range when he's got the speed advantage to deliver his power. Mosely's just too quick, too clean (technique-wise), and has too good a chin. Cotto, on the other hand, can be hit, and can be rocked.
I'd actually like to see Pac fight Cotto before Mayweather; both would be awesome fights.

[Yung Apprentice]

I agree, Juan Manuel Marquez's chin is underrated. And he is the only boxer that Pacquio consistently does not look good against. Many boxing critics thought Marquez was robbed of a win in their last fight.

Pacquio versus Cotto IMO would be similar to the Hatton fight. Yeah Cotto is quicker and more talented than Hatton, but he also has a weaker chin. Pac man would floor Cotto easy.

If he moved down in weight, an Edwin Valero fight would be interesting.

Pacquio would be smart to stay away from Mosely, Paul Williams, and Josh Clottey.

A Mayweather fight would be interesting too. The two best pound for pound fighters, one an offensive master, the other a defensive master. Mayweather would be the quickest opponent Pacquio has faced, and one of the best tactically.

[AdrianK]

Cotto a weaker chin?

The dude went 11 rounds against a guy with an illegal substance in his gloves that made them like stone, and was still conscious at the end of it. Hatton had a stronger chin before the Mayweather fight, but every fight after that has shown it's gotten incredibly weaker, especially the Juan Lazcano fight where he would've gotten KO'd had Hatton's shoe not became conveniently untied... and the malignaggi fight exposed the weakness that Mayweather took advantage of. Had Malignaggi actually had any real power in those hands, he'd of taken Hatton out in the early rounds too, but not in nearly as dramatic a fashion.

I think Pacquiao vs. Paul Williams would be hilarious... lol. Williams still has a lot to prove though, he hasn't really showed anything amazing. I actually think Pacquiao could do it, despite the massive size disadvantage, because pacquiao is quick enough to get on the inside and unload... he might not be able to reach william's chin though! lol.

[Pork Chop]

Lazcano was the fight at 147 before Mayweather, right?
Yeah that was the start of the decline of Hatton's chin.

Cotto was hurt at 140 before Margarito, he's been dropped before & wobbled pretty bad. However; Cotto also beat Mosely so you can't overlook that - the same guy that teed off on Margo like he was a heavybag.

Paul Williams just dismantled Winky Wright in April at middleweight, I doubt he's gonna be fighting at 140.

The opponents I'd like to see for Pac:
Cotto, Mayweather, Judah, and maybe an outside chance with Mosely should he win all 3.

Pac doesn't want to be fighting forever, he says he wants to retire soon, and I think he could win 2 of those 4 fights and go down as an All-Time Great.

[AdrianK]

Lazcano was the fight right after Mayweather, his comeback fight in his hometown. It was actually a pretty even match the whole way through IMHO, but the scorecards were, it being hatton's hometown, ridiculously in his favor.

But yeah, Paul Williams will never move all the way down to 140, but maybe back to 147. I think Pac should permanently move up to 147, there's no one left in 135 and 140 for him to fight.

But yeah, he's already going down as an all-time great, the guy has one of the most impressive resumes in the history of boxing.


That being said, the Mayweather/Marquez fight isn't til almost the end of July, which means the winner won't be ready for a fight until at least October or November. I'm sad we won't get to see Manny again for another 7 to 8 months. Wonder if he'll have a fight in the meantime?

[Pork Chop]

My bad, I was thinking Collazo fight in 06.

Given that he wants to retire soon, should he even beat Cotto and Mayweather; he could retire the undisputed king of the 140 and below bracket.

As much as i like watching him fight, I don't want to see him jump in there with guys the size of Margarito and Williams.

[brothernumber9]

"Many boxing critics thought Marquez was robbed of a win in their last fight"

not to be persnickety, but you mean the second fight. The third fight was good but Marquez got banged out.

I don't think a Mosely fight is that attractive, except for Margarito, he has no real substantial wins in a while. He is far slower than he used to be, and thinks he is stronger than he is. Pacquiao is too fast for Mosley. He may not KO him, but will crush him in points and the fight will ultimately be not really that exciting.

Pacquiao should fight Edwin Valero at lightweight, that would be an exciting fight, although, Valero has a fight in June, but I think people will be wanting that one after Pacquiao-Mayweather, rematch not-withstanding.
Considering the ultimate goal right now is a Pacquiao-Mayweather fight, and Mayweather will be fighting at 143, Roach may want Pacquiao to prepare heavier. That kinda leaves only Mosley, Cotto, Margarito, and Berto, sans a few others. I think they would be wary of Cotto and Margarito. Berto is still relatively unknown so there won't be that much money in that fight. Mosley has a known name and would be the most logical card should they want to prepare heavier.

[Pork Chop]

JMM and pac only fought twice, according to boxrec.
First was a draw- where JMM got knocked down 3 times in the first round but came back to dominate the later rounds.
Second was a split decision in Pac's favor - personally I thought Pac did enough to win.

I don't think the Valero fight's all that attractive; lotta risk for little reward - if he wins he crushed someone that was fed a steady diet of cans & mighta beens who took his first real step up in competition, if he loses he lost to someone fighting on the elite level for the first time. BTW - Pac's in the position to make Valero come up, not himself go down, there's no reason for him to drop back to 130.

Cotto's due to fight Clottey soon.
If Cotto wins, I think Pac's expected to fight him and then the winner of Mayweather - JMM.
If Cotto loses, Pac just fights the winner of Mayweather - JMM.

Like I said, with 3 fights left in his career, I don't see Pac doing anymore weight class jumping.

I say the Mosely fight only happens if the Cotto and Mayweather fights are solid wins.

[AdrianK]

Yeah, if he takes out Cotto and Mayweather the division only has the big dudes left.. as much as I'd love to see a fight with them to see how he'd do, I'd rather see him just go out on top.




not to be persnickety, but you mean the second fight. The third fight was good but Marquez got banged out.

They only fought twice.. but I think you mean their second fight anyway. Yeah, their second fight was *close* but Marquez didn't exactly get banged out either. He got dropped a couple times and fought his way to an extreme close decision that I believe was at most 2 rounds in pacquiao's favor. I think Pacman won that fight, but he was consistently outboxed, which shows just how amazing JMM is as a counter puncher.

Margarito is definitely too big for pacman. I think while Pacman has the power to drop him, he'd be at a disadvantage on the inside, size-wise. Then again, how much bigger is Cotto than Pacman was at 147? And honestly if Marg hadn't had those bricks in his **** gloves, Cotto was waxing that ass in the early rounds and likely would've continued.


Man, I'd love to see a Cotto/Pacman fight, at the same time I wouldn't because I know one of them has to lose :)

[brothernumber9]

Indeed, I put my foot in my mouth. It was the first fight that Marquez arguably won even though he was downed. I agree Valero is a step down for Pacquiao, I was just speaking as a selfish fan who wants to see a banger. But business-wise i will have to agree, it would be a bad decision right now for Pacquiao.

I actually hope that they don't go Cotto first, then Mayweather. The scene is set, barring a Marquez upset, for the Mayweather-Pacquiao match-up. I don't think Marquez will be fast enough at 143 to catch Mayweather, and Mayweather, I feel, will be stronger at that weight. I still don't have an idea of how this fight will probably go, other than I beleive Mayweather will win.

[Yung Apprentice]

Viewing the Margarito fight as an asterisk, Cotto has ben hurt more than once in his career, one name off the top of my head is Ricardo Torres almost ko'ed Cotto after taking the fight on a few weeks notice. Cotto's chin IS suspect.

Mosely looked nasty against Margarito and I think he would beat Cotto in a rematch, their fight was pretty close.

Zab Judah has NO chin whatso ever and pac man would crush him.

Andre Berto might do surprisingly well against Pacquio.

[AdrianK]

Don't count marquez out, I think Pacman is just as quick as Mayweather, and Marquez caught him really well.

Even though I really dislike Mayweather Sr, he made a good point on 24/7, boxing ain't as much about speed as it is about timing, and my god Marquez has some of the best timing and strategies in the game. If only he had the freak physical abilities that pacquiao has, I think he'd be unstoppable.

But yeah, the one thing is the weight. How tough and strong was a Juan Diaz at 135, versus a Floyd at 143/144? The Diaz fight is for all intents and purposes a real showcase because Diaz was the strongest, toughest guy at 135 and he came out looking 10 times better than he ever has, in the Marquez fight, and still went lights out to Marquez's brilliant strategies and counter-punching....

Here's to hoping Marquez pulls off the upset.. then Mayweather will finally have to fight a Cotto that gets beaten by Pacquiao :D

Cotto is going to be a challenge though, whereas Hatton came forward and gave Pacquiao all of these great openings, Cotto is much smarter about that. He fights at a quick pace and his strength and power is solid, he knows very well how to fight backwards and use his opponent's power against themselves.. and that could present a very real problem to Pacquiao.

[Yung Apprentice]

It may have been a typo, or I may have misinterpreted what you said. But Juan Diaz has never fought Floyd.

But yeah Marquez's timing is the best in the game, and like Pacquio, Marquez has shown his power stayed with him when moving up in weight. Just ask Casamayor, who has never been ko'ed in his career. (even after fighting guys like Diego Corrales, Acelino Freitas, Jose Luis Castillo and Nate Cambell)

I think Mayweather would lose to Pacquio for one reason and one reason only. In the past the only trouble Mayweather had was against pressure fighters. Look at the first fight he had with Jose Luis Castillo, who I think really won that fight and was robbed. (Jose got whupped in the second fight however)

The difference between Pacquio and the other pressure fighters Mayweather fought against is the speed. Pacman had ridiculous hand speed and punches from odd angles, I think his style his taylored to beat Mayweather.

[AdrianK]

It may have been a typo, or I may have misinterpreted what you said. But Juan Diaz has never fought Floyd.

Oh yeah, I can see how what I said can be interpreted as that. What I meant was, how much stronger is floyd than diaz, when you look at floyd's fight, and when you look at Diaz vs. Marquez, where Marquez handled the strength and high intensity of Diaz extremely well. The weight may be a moot point, is what I was getting at.

And yeah, I agree, Pacquiao vs. Mayweather is going to be Mayweather's first loss :)

[Yung Apprentice]

My fault, I see what you meant now, lol.

I just heard Joshua Clottey is fighting Cotto. I expect Cotto to get beat, and possibly badly.

[AdrianK]

I'm on the opposite side of the fence on this one. Cotto with a late round stoppage or UD.

I'm considering putting some money on JMM for the win against Mayweather. I'm really rooting for JMM and I think hes the smarter of the two when it comes to counter-punching, but the question is does he have the power and speed to stop mayweather, because he definitely lacks Mayweather's agility.

[Yung Apprentice]

Clottey is an extremely underrated fighter, with power in both hands, has a lot of heart, an excellent chin, and a really good counter puncher. He has as much power as Cotto, but doesn't get hit as often. I expect a late round ko for Clottey.

Marquez I believe will have his power with him. Mayweather will have a distinct speed advantage although Marquez is not slow. Faster opponents has never bothered Marquez in the past, on the contrary, because of his excellent timing, I think he throws a lot of the faster opponents off. Both fighters are extremely smart boxers, probably being the two smartest fighters of this era. It will be interesting to see who wins, and what strategies they employ. I wouldn't put money on that fight, because I think they are more evenly matched than ppl think. I will be rooting for Marquez to win however.

I think it would be interesting if Marquez sat back and waited for Mayweather and let him be the aggressor. With Marquez's timing and counterpunching ability, he could pull it off, and Mayweather would be in the unfamiliar role as aggressor.

Or Marquez with his excellent power and accurate punching could pressure Mayweather and force him to fight backing up.

[brothernumber9]

I may be starting to turn the corner for Marquez. After thinking about it, I think De La Hoya could have beat Mayweather if he pushed the fight more, especially in the corners. Marquez's camp said that De La Hoya already showed how to beat Mayweather. Hatten was certainly more of a pressure fighter, but does not have the timing and patience of Marquez. That and an ego so overinflated now by Mayweather, it would not surprise me if Mayweather did not train like he has in the past, or has an awkward camp after taking time off. If Marquez has a good camp, I think he may win. I'll be waiting for the first 24/7 soon.

[Vajramusti]

The making of a great match. Even though Mayweather has had time off- he always works out
and should be in top shape. Both of them have had excellent coaching. Marquez may have a little more wear and tear. He is tough- I thought that he edged Pacquaio-though the latter keeps improving while Hatton does not.But knockdowns extract a price on the long run.Mayweather moves out of danger a little more easily. While Marquez is good on the inside- the inside is Mayweather country.The key is whether Marquez can control the distance sufficiently to stay out of inside trouble and move seamlessly inside/outside..
I watched again the replay of the Pacquaio-Hatton fight...Pacquaio really has become a complete fighter. And Roach is a better trainer than he was a fighter.His own last fight was some disaster and damaged him.

Hovering around 140 pounds- those are 3 great fighters-Mayweather, Marquez and Pacquaio.A great time for boxing at that weight- while light heavy and heavy have become less interesting.

Hatton could still have some good fights aginst non thinking fighters- but he has reached his ceiling...as far as excellence is concerned. Boxing is a young man's game- the window for evolving is smaller than in some martial art styles.

joy chaudhuri

[Yung Apprentice]

Very well put.

Pacquio has become a complete fighter. I remember a time where he was a one dimensional fighter, with his nasty left hook relying on his natural gifts, speed and power.

He learned how to jab, he learned how to counter, he learned to go to the body and he learned how to be dangerous with his right, and you are correct in saying it's because of Roach.

As for Marquez and Mayweather, Marquez has a NASTY jab and uses it very well, I think he can definately box on the outside with Mayweather.