How often does your school practice against multiples?

[yutyeesam]

Just wondering if your school practices randori against multiple opponents on a regular basis?

If so, at what level does the student have to be to start?

If not, why not? Note, I said REGULAR basis.

Thanks,

-123

[golden arhat]

we have multiple full contact sparring with 10 people and up boxing only free for all
and 14 oz gloves
its awesome

[WinterPalm]

Do you mean DP? Or what?:D





























Or What?:D

[yutyeesam]

@Andy Miles - thanks for that, that's pretty helpful hearing how you progress with it.

@golden arhat - sounds intense! lots of injuries?

@Winter Palm - lol, maybe to ward off a potential DP, TP, or QP! :eek:

[golden arhat]

get a few knockouts
no serious injuries tho most of those come from wrestling

[AdrianK]

I've always found multiple opponent training to be utterly ridiculous unless you first know how to take out a single opponent.

No point in going on to multiple opponents until you learn the ins and the outs of dealing with your first.

One of my old schools had the most ridiculous ideas about multiple opponents, the opponent would stop after being hit with a couple of tap tap tap shots, while the opponents threw ridiculously wide and slow "hooks" with nothing behind them :confused:

If you want to do multiple opponents right, it should be like regular sparring, except with multiple people. Otherwise its completely pointless.



After 1-2 years. At that time their reactions are mature enough to deal with the scenario without building up fear.

Thats a little hard to believe. I've rarely ever seen a student with only 1 to 2 years of training who has no fear in that kind of a serious situation. Unless there's no hard contact going on. Even in boxing there are plenty of guys who get scared in sparring the first couple years. Hell, the last two boxing gyms I went to barely sparred because of that :|

[golden arhat]

yes learning to fight one person is imperative



from one thing know ten thousand things - miyamoto musashi

[SPJ]

In Tong Bei fist;

yes, it is from day one

1. each posture/move is practiced over and over toward 4 directions. front back left and right.

2. mutilple poles with cushions covered are placed in the training area, we hit left and right, high and low and then walk to the next pole and do the same, ---

In long fist,

it is also from day one

1, punching forward with your fist and kick backward at the same time , double hammering fists with both hands left and right, --- double kicks front and back, left and right, they are considered jump kicks, leg sweep etc etc

in Ba Gua

---

:D:):cool:

[SPJ]

weapon to deal with multiple opponents,

my favorite would be the staff

gun sao qiang jun, staff sweeping a thousand army, we sweep or sway the staff the whole circle around our front and back.

---

my point is that most if not all kung fu is designed for multiple opponents.

or it is used in the army to fight many at old time.

:)

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hjXME3ahNA

:eek::D

[AdrianK]

Thats because they don't train the adrenal response.

So then what do you do to train the adrenal response, exactly?



They don't understand fear and how it affects the body's hormones.

Okay, understanding is one step.



Thats why complete systems have medicine.

Martial arts is both science and art. Complete systems don't exist. Its basically saying that one system has absolutely everything you could ever need in absolutely any circumstance in the context of self-defense including all related subjects(psychology, anatomy, etc.). Annnnnd ya don't. No one does. No one can. Especially when many of the scientific subjects that are directly related to martial arts, are continually evolving themselves.



This is where meditation and herbs come in.

So how exactly does the meditation fit in? And herbs? What kind've herbs? I know of one herb that might lessen your adrenal response :D

[Mr Punch]

I've always found multiple opponent training to be utterly ridiculous unless you first know how to take out a single opponent.

No point in going on to multiple opponents until you learn the ins and the outs of dealing with your first.Good point. But, there are levels... full contact from day one is obviously bloody stupid. It doesn't have to be daR33lz to enable you to train a couple of reactions that might save your life.


we have multiple full contact sparring with 10 people and up boxing only free for all
and 14 oz gloves
its awesomeFull contact with 10 people and up... and only a few knock-outs? You're going easy - even with 14 oz gloves that ain't full contact, mate.

[Mr Punch]

Forgot to say bout me...

used to train multiples from day one, prob about one (of six or more lessons) every couple of weeks. It started with what we called milling drills, pushing, one or two punches, one big kick, etc, building up to full armour and more full contact... within a year. I say more, because it wasn't full contact like two people beating seven bells out of each other.

Don't any more, cos there're usually only three to five of us training!

[Tensei85]

Andy,

thanks for the info but on your perspective above I would have to say I disagree. first your entitilement of a complete art is only coming from a Daoist perspective. Their are besides Daoist, Hui arts, Buddhist arts, Hakka arts, etc.... that each incorporate there own methods of theory. So in that context what your saying would be like saying that Christianity is more complete than Buddhism. (bad analogy!) We should take these systems for what they are instead of over theorizing them, then we only lose the original intent. For me a complete system is one that addresses all ranges, internal and external components, weapons, fighting, etc... again given in the context of Wu Gong.

[golden arhat]

Good point. But, there are levels... full contact from day one is obviously bloody stupid. It doesn't have to be daR33lz to enable you to train a couple of reactions that might save your life.

Full contact with 10 people and up... and only a few knock-outs? You're going easy - even with 14 oz gloves that ain't full contact, mate.

well most of us do fine almsot all the time
and believe me we're not holding back thast why we are restricted to boxing

we even do bits where the whole class fights one guy and then switches to another and then another till they've gone through everyone

and nothing serious has happened yet

[Violent Designs]

Care to videotape these 10 vs. 1 full contact boxing matches?

[Eric Olson]

When I was in Hung Gar my sifu had us do an exercise where 1 person would stand in the middle and the rest of the class would make a semi-circle around the student.
Someone would stand behind the student and point at the students in the semi-circle. When pointed at the student would launch an attack and the person in the middle would block and counter.

In CLF I extended this idea to having the person totally surrounded. Instead of pointing, each person surrounding the person in the middle would get a number and someone would call it out. That way the person in the middle would get attacks from all kinds of directions and sometimes simultaneously.

Try these drills, they are a lot of fun and improve your reaction time. As with all drills there is something that is unrealistic about them ie when you really get attacked by more than one person (which I have) they often launch flurries of attacks at you, but trying to train for that quickly turns into chaos.

Cheers,

EO

[David Jamieson]

someone post that vid of the tkd tard fest again here. :p

[golden arhat]

Care to videotape these 10 vs. 1 full contact boxing matches?

there a video on youtube somewhere i'l try and find it

[AdrianK]

A system is considered complete when it has the yin and yang components, the medical and the martial and encompasses the Daoist sciences as a pai.

:confused: Really? So then every non-chinese system is incomplete? And it has nothing to do with the various and extensive fighting aspect, which includes several vast scientific subjects??



You can't stand put and slug it out, with multiple opponents you need to keep moving.

Depends really on how much power you have, and how accurate you are. Yes, movement is an option, but its still a variable that changes based on a situation. There are no absolutes in a fight.



and believe me we're not holding back thast why we are restricted to boxing

Well you do realize that a common method in street fights is one or two guys restrain you while the other ones beat the **** out of you, right?

So what point is there to restrict everything to boxing?

[xcakid]

This is where I have gotten my multiple attacker training. http://www.tftt.com/TFTT_Home.html Also Tigervalley here in TX and Frontsight. Well you get the idea. ;)

For practice: http://www.idpa.com/ and http://www.ipsc.org/

Martial arts is for fitness and so that I can get to my primary weapons. :D :cool:

[David Jamieson]

ok, so a street gang is running to mob you and you pull out your tactical firearm?

Where exactly do you keep an H&K on your person anyway? :p