How to Defeat a MMA guy

[Yoshiyahu]

What are some of Weaknesses of MMA fighters?

What are some counters to when they grab you an attempt to take you down?

Also many say there is no-counter once they gain the submission lock? Is this true. is there away to escape submission lock. Is there a counter or a way one can squirm out of that painful posistion before having to tap out or getting a limb broken?

What sorta of fighters do MMA guys dread?

[Lucas]

learn to strike, learn to grapple. train like a mofo. be better than the other guy. feel lucky.

[Lucas]

'mma fighters' have the same weaknesses as everyone else.

depends on where they grab you. lots of factors there. momentum, position, etc.

again, depends on several factors. the lock, whos doing it, your experience with it, how well is it being applied.

depends on the fighter

[GeneChing]

MMA fighters are ticklish.

[Lucas]

how could you betray.....

[GeneChing]

...ok, truthfully, it was the ninjettes. The make the most unrefuseable offers.

[kwaichang]

MMA fighters fight with rules , street fighters do not. KC

[Lucas]

fortunately, people can be both. ;)

[Yao Sing]

I don't recall who it was but someone posted the MMA weakness - tapping. If you tap they are conditioned to release and stop fighting. That's when you beat the crap out of them before they realize the fight isn't actually over. :p

[MasterKiller]

I don't recall who it was but someone posted the MMA weakness - tapping. If you tap they are conditioned to release and stop fighting. That's when you beat the crap out of them before they realize the fight isn't actually over. :p

MMA guys that actually fight don't release the hold until the ref steps in.

[MasterKiller]

What are some of Weaknesses of MMA fighters?

What are some counters to when they grab you an attempt to take you down?

Also many say there is no-counter once they gain the submission lock? Is this true. is there away to escape submission lock. Is there a counter or a way one can squirm out of that painful posistion before having to tap out or getting a limb broken?

What sorta of fighters do MMA guys dread?

Learn to kick, punch, throw, and wrestle. If you are better than him, you win.

[goju]

wellive done and still do mma and ive noticed that the overwhelming majority of mma fighters can not kick to save their lives so obvoisly kicking alot works it worked good for me when i started :)

[goju]

oh and its harder to submit someone if they are really flexible certain bjj sumbissions dont even work agaisnt a limber person

[sanjuro_ronin]

Nominated for best posts ever !!


Yesterday 11:20 PM
goju oh and its harder to submit someone if they are really flexible certain bjj sumbissions dont even work agaisnt a limber person

Yesterday 11:13 PM
goju wellive done and still do mma and ive noticed that the overwhelming majority of mma fighters can not kick to save their lives so obvoisly kicking alot works it worked good for me when i started


Yesterday 06:27 PM
kwaichang MMA fighters fight with rules , street fighters do not. KC


Yesterday 04:26 PM
Yoshiyahu
How to Defeat a MMA guy
What are some of Weaknesses of MMA fighters?

What are some counters to when they grab you an attempt to take you down?

Also many say there is no-counter once they gain the submission lock? Is this true. is there away to escape submission lock. Is there a counter or a way one can squirm out of that painful posistion before having to tap out or getting a limb broken?

What sorta of fighters do MMA guys dread?

[TenTigers]

lubricant. Always cover your entire body with a non-water soluble lubricant, rather than Astroglide, or K-Y. Sweat will increase your slipperyness, and once you add in Gene's secret tickle manuver, you're free to escape and defeat them due to their lack of kicking ability.

[Lucas]

lubricant. Always cover your entire body with a non-water soluble lubricant, rather than Astroglide, or K-Y. Sweat will increase your slipperyness, and once you add in Gene's secret tickle manuver, you're free to escape and defeat them due to their lack of kicking ability.

two words.

nacho cheese

[Tensei85]

my view:
If you want to be a fighter train "realistically" like a fighter, if you want to be better than other fighters than train "realistically" harder than other fighters.

In other words don't practice chi sau all day & night and think you can fight intelligently.

Thats all I'm going to say fill in the blanks with whatever you want...

[Shaolin]

What are some of Weaknesses of MMA fighters?

What are some counters to when they grab you an attempt to take you down?

Also many say there is no-counter once they gain the submission lock? Is this true. is there away to escape submission lock. Is there a counter or a way one can squirm out of that painful posistion before having to tap out or getting a limb broken?

What sorta of fighters do MMA guys dread?

1. Every fighter has weaknesses whether a traditional practitioner or sport combat.

2. Depends on what take down. Is it a real fight or sport? Are we in a ring or cage? From a clinch or shoot?

3. If an opponent has a solid lock (in competition) you tap or risk your career. In a real fight don't let him/her put a lock on you (I know easier said than done). You don't want an attacker immobilizing you, you don't know what his intentions are afterwards; maybe just to beat you up or rob you, or maybe worse.

4. The guy standing across from him.

Not trying to be a jerk in any of my answers, just trying to clarify. There's so many variables to consider to get a more accurate answer.

[Yung Apprentice]

Want to defeat an MMA guy? Then train in MMA. If an MMA guy wanted to compete in a CMA tournament, he would he would have to learn CMA. Plain and simple, apples and oranges.

MMA isn't a style. It's a MIXTURE of styles, hence the name. When it first started, it was about style vs. style. Grapplers showed strikers it's deficiencies. But then strikers learned to defend against grapplers, and in turn grapplers had to learn striking.

IMO, If you want to defeat an MMAer you had better train like one. But I also think a TMAist can still be a TMAist even if they cross train. I mean seriously, how many MAists can you think of, started in one style and stuck with one style. (seriously tkd or karate since 6?)

[Yao Sing]

Easy, just hold him down and use a hacksaw across the ankles and .... wait ...

Did you say de-feet or defeat?

Ok, never mind.

[bawang]

MMA fight with MMA rules
to beat them you must train MMA

never forgoet chinese barehand martial arts was mainly used to train hand eye cordination for weapons, most of it is a inferior figting style

[GreenCloudCLF]

I like lamp

[MightyB]

I like lamp

Did you eat the chocolate squirrel?

[GreenCloudCLF]

Did you eat the chocolate squirrel?

Covered in raspberry raccoon.

[1bad65]

MMA guys that actually fight don't release the hold until the ref steps in.

This is true.


oh and its harder to submit someone if they are really flexible certain bjj sumbissions dont even work agaisnt a limber person

This is not.

[WinterPalm]

This is true.



This is not.

Actually the 2nd one is true. There's a guy at the gym that you just can't tap with certain subs. But he's a jits guy...not learning jits is stupid.

[MasterKiller]

Actually the 2nd one is true. There's a guy at the gym that you just can't tap with certain subs. But he's a jits guy...not learning jits is stupid.

I would wager a lot of that has to do with him just knowing how to position/control his body, or people not doing the technique exactly correct.

While being flexible helps, and certainly can buy you some time, it's not going to save you against someone who knows how to perform the submissions properly.

For example, I have very flexible shoulders and it is very difficult for someone to tap me with an Americana, mostly because people get carried away trying to crank the arm and forget to slide it down low before attempting the submission. But, when done properly, my flexibility is neutralized.

[Shaolinlueb]

you grab their protein shake and run

just like in this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hzwr9kRLH0

[MightyB]

Actually the 2nd one is true. There's a guy at the gym that you just can't tap with certain subs. But he's a jits guy...not learning jits is stupid.

or you could say that it's actually harder to submit people than you would think. Especially motivated and trained people who are doing their best to submit you back.

[WinterPalm]

or you could say that it's actually harder to submit people than you would think. Especially motivated and trained people who are doing their best to submit you back.

This is true. But I've seen people bend this guy's arm like right around to some crazy angles.
But yeah, flexibility isn't the be all, end all.

[WinterPalm]

I would wager a lot of that has to do with him just knowing how to position/control his body, or people not doing the technique exactly correct.

While being flexible helps, and certainly can buy you some time, it's not going to save you against someone who knows how to perform the submissions properly.

For example, I have very flexible shoulders and it is very difficult for someone to tap me with an Americana, mostly because people get carried away trying to crank the arm and forget to slide it down low before attempting the submission. But, when done properly, my flexibility is neutralized.

For sure. Often though, if you have to over extend yourself to apply certain submissions due to abnormal flexibility, it can leave you open to sweeps and such.

That said, to the TS, there is no such thing as MMA guys...just martial artists trying to cover all their bases in a way as best as possible.

[goju]

This is true.



This is not.

actually it is i train mma and many moves odnt work on double jointed or flexible people while they are easy to apply on stiff folks
even gene lebell noted this

[goju]

I would wager a lot of that has to do with him just knowing how to position/control his body, or people not doing the technique exactly correct.

While being flexible helps, and certainly can buy you some time, it's not going to save you against someone who knows how to perform the submissions properly.

For example, I have very flexible shoulders and it is very difficult for someone to tap me with an Americana, mostly because people get carried away trying to crank the arm and forget to slide it down low before attempting the submission. But, when done properly, my flexibility is neutralized.

and while your busy trying to crank the arm you waste to much effort and time until you realize how flexible they are and this gives the flexible person a chance to escape /apply his tecnique
i have freaky double jointed shoulders and absolutely none of the gracie jujitsu self defense techniques work on me

a flexible guy will definetly have the advantage in a bjj tournament
and since a ajority of mma gyms dont advocate stretching tma stylist have the advantage

[Violent Designs]

actually it is i train mma and many moves odnt work on double jointed or flexible people while they are easy to apply on stiff folks
even gene lebell noted this

I thought you had a Karate coach and wrestling coach to train you for MMA? :rolleyes:

[wiz cool c]

My Bagua Teacher back in the states said,all the things you're not allowed to do in a competition are the things you would do to beat a bigger guy in a fight. I think this can apply to mma as well. But you need to know how to grapple,that is a must.

[golden arhat]

never forgoet chinese barehand martial arts was mainly used to train hand eye cordination for weapons, most of it is a inferior figting style

i've never heard that before

[golden arhat]

i didnt know i wasnt a street fighter just because i train mma doesnt mean i cant fight dirty

i dont need special training to kick someone in the balls or poke em in the eyes

[goju]

i do have akrate coach and a wrestling coach!

[Scott R. Brown]

When he comes in for a tackle, stick your knife in between his cervical vertebrae!

[MasterKiller]

and while your busy trying to crank the arm you waste to much effort and time until you realize how flexible they are and this gives the flexible person a chance to escape /apply his tecnique
i have freaky double jointed shoulders and absolutely none of the gracie jujitsu self defense techniques work on me
I doubt it, but whatever.


a flexible guy will definetly have the advantage in a bjj tournament
and since a ajority of mma gyms dont advocate stretching tma stylist have the advantage

Most MMA guys recognize the importance of stretching. Many, many fighters advocate cross-training in yoga. You must attend the worst gym in America.

[goju]

um no they dont this gos back to me noting how a majority of them cant kick to save their lives and why cant they kick? because they dont stretch duh


and i dont care if you beleive it wasnt asking you to :)

[Pork Chop]

Well when i saw this thread, all I could think of to post was:
"invite them to a "muay thai smoker" and beat they azz".
http://www.youtube.com/user/SitVongPhetCory
but i thought it sounded a little crass....

[Kansuke]

um no they dont this gos back to me noting how a majority of them cant kick to save their lives and why cant they kick? because they dont stretch duh


and i dont care if you beleive it wasnt asking you to :)



Do you care if I don't believe it? How many people not believing you will it take for you to care?

[Mr Punch]

Do you care if I don't believe it? How many people not believing you will it take for you to care?Let's make that a plus one.

This kid's funny.

[goju]

wel my thought is if they dont care than why bother? :)

[sanjuro_ronin]

I came across that link and wanted to share. I personally believe as long as the odds are even in the fight you have a 50/50 chance of winning. No matter what style or size of the guy or gal you are fighting.;)

http://ezinearticles.com/?Street-Fighting-Moves---5-Secrets-How-to-Defeat-a-Mixed-Martial-Artist-in-a-Real-Street-Fight&id=2129909

Yeah, well..after this part:

If you can understand the difference between sports fighting and reality-based street survival where anything goes and there are no rules, you will get the most out of this article.
I kind of stopped reading.
Why?
Well, since the VAST MAJORITY of MMA fighters I know ALL have street fighting backgrounds AND are trained fighters ON TOP OF THAT, it seems that having a POV that ASSUMES that your opponent doesn't know the difference between two things that EVERYONE else does, is a very stupid POV to have, and one that may well get you beaten into a pulp.


Good luck with that though.

[goju]

meh when anybody says they have street fighting experience 99.9 percent of the time they are talking out of their hole

[Oso]

man, i'm just trying to figure out which version of the same tired old thread this is...

Lucas answered the question first and MK followed up just to be redundant so...there you go.

[sanjuro_ronin]

meh when anybody says they have street fighting experience 99.9 percent of the time they are talking out of their hole

Perhaps, but since I am referring to those that I have worked with bouncing or during my time in the military or those that still do security or LEO work, I can speak for them.

[WinterPalm]

In my gym there's a Krav Maga class. Basically the usual restraints and attacks done in non-random, non-resisting manners. There is no workout and no sparring...not sure if this is pandemic to Krav Maga.
Anyway, with all their practice against non-resisting partners, doing throat breaks, groin kicks, eye pokes, and all the rest of the stuff we don't do in sport stuff, I would still rather fight any one of them versus the sport people.

A mix of both approaches is good but if just one, then sport is much better to train in in my opinion.

[Mr Punch]

I came across that link and wanted to share. I personally believe as long as the odds are even in the fight you have a 50/50 chance of winning. No matter what style or size of the guy or gal you are fighting.;)
What you believe is wrong. Well, it's kind of right: the odds are NOT EVEN if the other guy is a highly trained monster of 20 kg bigger than you. The odds are never even.

If I fight Fedor I do not have a 50-50 chance of winning, street or no street.

[Mr Punch]

In my gym there's a Krav Maga class. Basically the usual restraints and attacks done in non-random, non-resisting manners. There is no workout and no sparring...not sure if this is pandemic to Krav Maga.
Anyway, with all their practice against non-resisting partners, doing throat breaks, groin kicks, eye pokes, and all the rest of the stuff we don't do in sport stuff, I would still rather fight any one of them versus the sport people.

A mix of both approaches is good but if just one, then sport is much better to train in in my opinion.Krav Maga's a funny one. I know a bodyguard who is a very fit old-skool style TKD champion, no wuss at BJJ and still swears by his KM training. I trust him. But if you don't have any more realistic background or don't need it in your job, you very easily become a fantasist doing KM I reckon. OTOH, don't forget it has been tested on resisting opponents... all over the West Bank and Gaza :( Admittedly well over half of those opponents haven't had any training in anything related to fighting but that's for another thread... and they were still resisting.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Don't ever confuse the "market" KM to the real deal KM and don't confuse THAT KM with the one the military trains and don't confuse THAT KM with the one the special forces and intelligence sections train.

[Water Dragon]

What sorta of fighters do MMA guys dread?

Judo Guys!

But seriously, it depends on which MMA fighter we are talking about. Everyone has weaknessess, but everyone has different weaknessess, even in the same art.

Some MMA fighters are ground technicians, you want to stay on your feet with them. Unless you're a Muay Thai or Judo guy, try to avoid the clinch. Some fighters are solid stand up fighters with little ground game. You might not want to try and outbox one of those guys.

I tend to throw most people, because that's where my background is (brown belt in Judo and blue belt in SC), but I need to be real careful against either a Muay Thai guy, or a good BJJ guy. I can hold my own against most blues and some purples, but if my throw doesn't knock him out, a good ground man is gonna turn the tables on snap my arm as payback for chucking him on his head. A good Muay Thai fighter is going to bring his own clinch game to the table. If I can make him play my game, he's toast. If he locks me into a plumb, I'm probably going to be eating a lot of knees and probably some elbows.

If you think about, the same situation exists in any art. When I compete, I'm eyeballing my weightclass like a hawk to figure out what weach guys strengths and weaknesess are. I'm gonna throw 'em all with O Soto, but my strategy is going to be different with each opponent.

The streetfight argument is a bunch of crap. If you don't know the guy you're fighting, you have no idea what he brings or doesn't bring to the table. All you can do there is throw out your best technique and hope your good enough to make him play your game.

[goju]

i think krav magas hugely overratted too

whay kind of fight are we talking about?
if its a street fighti think tms guys have the advantage because we dont have any rules

[SoCo KungFu]

i think krav magas hugely overratted too

whay kind of fight are we talking about?
if its a street fighti think tms guys have the advantage because we dont have any rules

I think, you may want to be home by 8pm if at all possible.

[Kansuke]

meh when anybody says they have street fighting experience 99.9 percent of the time they are talking out of their hole


When anyone offers percentages on things they cannot possibly know so specifically, they are 100% full of ****.

[Kansuke]

if its a street fighti think tms guys have the advantage because we dont have any rules



................... :rolleyes:

[lkfmdc]

Krav Maga is now a pyramid scheme and mostly BS

I had a kid who was supposed to be an "instructor" in Krav Maga in the gym (for a short time). He was getting the crap beaten out of him in basic sparring and when he tried to be "dirty" to show "what it would have been like on the street" he got KO'ed OUT COLD

If you can't block punches and kicks and knees, you aren't up to a "real fight"

But better yet, he brought in an old lady who was his Krav Maga master :eek:

[goju]

When anyone offers percentages on things they cannot possibly know so specifically, they are 100% full of ****.
um so you just said you full of **** didnt you lol

[Kansuke]

Wow, got that, did you? :rolleyes:

[Lucas]

when it comes to a street fight, the guy that has the advantage is:

The meaner, stronger, faster, smarter, and unfortunately luckier fighter.

also the situation is entirely going to effect the outcome.

ie: few fights that finish in the street start off with each guy squaring up toe to toe. usually there is an instant aggressor, an attacker that jumps the gun and gets the initiative.

depending on the circumstances, street fights, regardless of styles, are not always predictable.

[lkfmdc]

a few times in the past, especially before I was all nice and sweet like I am now, when someone talked about "the street" I'd just grab them suddenly, screaming at the top of my lungs, throw them forcefully against a wall and begin to punch them in the face. Most of the really "deadly" TMA people I know usually had no answer for that, to which I would then state "but that's a street fight"

[Lucas]

a few times in the past, especially before I was all nice and sweet like I am now, when someone talked about "the street" I'd just grab them suddenly, screaming at the top of my lungs, throw them forcefully against a wall and begin to punch them in the face. Most of the really "deadly" TMA people I know usually had no answer for that, to which I would then state "but that's a street fight"

they were just lucky you didnt shank em in the kidney for a lesson.

;)

[monji112000]

a few times in the past, especially before I was all nice and sweet like I am now, when someone talked about "the street" I'd just grab them suddenly, screaming at the top of my lungs, throw them forcefully against a wall and begin to punch them in the face. Most of the really "deadly" TMA people I know usually had no answer for that, to which I would then state "but that's a street fight"
funny story my sifu did that to me one time to see what I would do. Stopped short of hitting me hard, but he used his great broken English cursing (that's some funny stuff hearing Chinese people curse!) I just stood there like a dope it scared the crap out of me. he proved his point very quickly.

[Yung Apprentice]

Anyone has a shot at winning a streetfight. There are a lot of variables to consider in streetfighting. Boxing has less variables to consider than mma. MMA has less variables to consider than streetfighting. More rules equals less variables.

[uki]

What are some of Weaknesses of MMA fighters?they have to adhere to a set of rules and regulations.


What are some counters to when they grab you an attempt to take you down?judo throws baby!!


Also many say there is no-counter once they gain the submission lock? Is this true. is there away to escape submission lock. Is there a counter or a way one can squirm out of that painful posistion before having to tap out or getting a limb broken?biting works wonders... taste the soft spots.


What sorta of fighters do MMA guys dread?the kind that don't follow rules: the sort that will fish-hook your mouth off, rake your face from your head, and crush the trachea while biting your nose. :D

[sanjuro_ronin]

they have to adhere to a set of rules and regulations.
judo throws baby!!
biting works wonders... taste the soft spots.
the kind that don't follow rules: the sort that will fish-hook your mouth off, rake your face from your head, and crush the trachea while biting your nose. :D

LOL !!
Too funny

[uki]

Too funnygene said to be myself. :D

[Vash]

So, if the non-mma opponent is "not following rules," rules under which he most likely trains, what is stopping mma-guy from doing the same?

[uki]

So, if the non-mma opponent is "not following rules," rules under which he most likely trains, what is stopping mma-guy from doing the same?you are correct, nothing is to stop people from fighting without rules, but you must remember that MMA is a sport, so the competitors training in it and for it, train according to a set of rules and regualtions. it's a one on one match, in a ring or something, with a ref - no weapons, no eye-gouging, no biting, no deliberate breaks, no fish-hooking, etc, etc, and when you train according to these rules, you develop patterns and what-not of reaction... the concept of muscle memory - one is more likely to respond with what they train because of how they train, according to the mindset of the training... there's a difference between a guy who fights to protect his ego and the guy who fights to protect himself or his family... if someone provokes me to fight, i am going to do my best to rend their flesh from their bones, tear their face from their head, or otherwise mutilate all exposed skin and striking surfaces that i can hit. for myself, fighting is reserved for the last resort, and if someone wants to go on a vacation with me that bad, i'll make sure they get their moneys worth. this is why i believe MMA is useless outside of the sports ring/cage... MMA fighters fight for the ego, medals, and recongnition... i fight only if i have to. :)

[sanjuro_ronin]

you are correct, nothing is to stop people from fighting without rules, but you must remember that MMA is a sport, so the competitors training in it and for it, train according to a set of rules and regualtions. it's a one on one match, in a ring or something, with a ref - no weapons, no eye-gouging, no biting, no deliberate breaks, no fish-hooking, etc, etc, and when you train according to these rules, you develop patterns and what-not of reaction... the concept of muscle memory - one is more likely to respond with what they train because of how they train, according to the mindset of the training... there's a difference between a guy who fights to protect his ego and the guy who fights to protect himself or his family... if someone provokes me to fight, i am going to do my best to rend their flesh from their bones, tear their face from their head, or otherwise mutilate all exposed skin and striking surfaces that i can hit. for myself, fighting is reserved for the last resort, and if someone wants to go on a vacation with me that bad, i'll make sure they get their moneys worth. this is why i believe MMA is useless outside of the sports ring/cage... MMA fighters fight for the ego, medals, and recongnition... i fight only if i have to. :)


Funny thing is, that all those things you mentioned - eye gouging, biting, fish hooks, ARE taught in MMA and people are taught how to use them and counter them, didn't you know that?
You know that in the early days of Vale Tudo there was only one rule in the vast majority of fights - respect the "surrender", everything else was pretty much a go, INCLUDING all that stuff.

[uki]

Funny thing is, that all those things you mentioned - eye gouging, biting, fish hooks, ARE taught in MMA and people are taught how to use them and counter them, didn't you know that?of course. i am only attacking the action of the sport itself and the mentality behind it... the best part about making generalizations is to discover the individual exceptions. :)

You know that in the early days of Vale Tudo there was only one rule in the vast majority of fights - respect the "surrender", everything else was pretty much a go, INCLUDING all that stuff.yet the question remains to those who still participate in these types of fights and with this type of mentality... why are you fighting? what is the ULTIMATE goal behind the action? this is where you will find the the root of the whole MMA tree of life.

[sanjuro_ronin]

o
yet the question remains to those who still participate in these types of fights and with this type of mentality... why are you fighting? what is the ULTIMATE goal behind the action? this is where you will find the the root of the whole MMA tree of life.

A valid question, I can only, of course, speak for myself:
When I decided to compete in VT matches it was, simply, as a test of my MA skill.
I had competed already in Boxing, MT, Judo, Kyokushin and had for some time been a bouncer and had occasion to use my MA skills in the "real world", which makes one ask what further test did I feel I meed?
Quite simply this:
While I had fought trained fighters in a "ruled oriented" environment and I had fought "untrained" fighters in a "no rules" environment, I had never fought trained fighters in a "no rules" environment.
That said, fighters have a deep respect for each other and our skills and the years that it takes to develop those skills, so I knew that, outside a "self protection" situation, that I would never fight a trained fighter in a "no rules" environment, so the very limited rules of VT was the logical next step in my development as a MA - Practioner > Fighter> Martial Artist> Teacher.

So I tried my hand at VT, some with a few rules, others with only one - RESPECT the Tap/Surrender.

It was eye opening and it was a crucial step for me in my development.

[Pork Chop]

you are correct, nothing is to stop people from fighting without rules, but you must remember that MMA is a sport, so the competitors training in it and for it, train according to a set of rules and regualtions. it's a one on one match, in a ring or something, with a ref - no weapons, no eye-gouging, no biting, no deliberate breaks, no fish-hooking, etc, etc, and when you train according to these rules, you develop patterns and what-not of reaction...

so how many eyes did you gouge out this week?
how many people did you bite?
how many bones/joints did you deliberately break?
more importantly, how many of these techniques did you survive yourself this week?

[uki]

so how many eyes did you gouge out this week?
how many people did you bite?
how many bones/joints did you deliberately break?
more importantly, how many of these techniques did you survive yourself this week?predictable footwork. you're quite obviously missing the point here.

[Pork Chop]

predictable footwork. you're quite obviously missing the point here.

I probably am missing something here.

But 2 things....

1- "Why do you fight". You make it seem like you have a hyper aggression switch that a sport guy's not going to have. I know a couple pros that'll take things as far as you want to take them. For them, it's not about the ego of wearing a belt or looking good in front of fans - it's much more primal. You hit me, I'm gonna hit you back 10 times harder. You punch me in the balls, I'll tear your's off. You hurt me, I'm going to kill you. Your assumption that a sport fighter's not gonna go there is just plain false. Truly violent people gravitate towards violence and you're going to find some pretty violent people that make their money competing in a sport where the taste of your own blood is common. I can cite plenty of examples even this year of guys coming into our muay thai gym, losing their temper in sparring, going outside of the rules, and having their dirty tactics returned 10 fold. You talk of going on vacation with people who make their money giving people guided tours.

2- Hyper aggression is not always a good thing. Snipers do exist. For every guy out there looking for blood, lunging at people with the berserker rage, there are others that will calmly and quietly incapacitate you before you can get your chance. You sound like every guy who thinks that getting knocked out is a choice, that you will refuse to succumb and therefore won't. The human brain has a finite capacity for damage and when you have no control of your limbs, you're not getting up. There's no shame in not being able to get up once you've been caught. The mistake came in getting caught in the first place, and being in the middle of sinew-tearing bloodlust is not the right way to avoid getting caught.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I probably am missing something here.

But 2 things....

1- "Why do you fight". You make it seem like you have a hyper aggression switch that a sport guy's not going to have. I know a couple pros that'll take things as far as you want to take them. For them, it's not about the ego of wearing a belt or looking good in front of fans - it's much more primal. You hit me, I'm gonna hit you back 10 times harder. You punch me in the balls, I'll tear your's off. You hurt me, I'm going to kill you. Your assumption that a sport fighter's not gonna go there is just plain false. Truly violent people gravitate towards violence and you're going to find some pretty violent people that make their money competing in a sport where the taste of your own blood is common. I can cite plenty of examples even this year of guys coming into our muay thai gym, losing their temper in sparring, going outside of the rules, and having their dirty tactics returned 10 fold. You talk of going on vacation with people who make their money giving people guided tours.

2- Hyper aggression is not always a good thing. Snipers do exist. For every guy out there looking for blood, lunging at people with the berserker rage, there are others that will calmly and quietly incapacitate you before you can get your chance. You sound like every guy who thinks that getting knocked out is a choice, that you will refuse to succumb and therefore won't. The human brain has a finite capacity for damage and when you have no control of your limbs, you're not getting up. There's no shame in not being able to get up once you've been caught. The mistake came in getting caught in the first place, and being in the middle of sinew-tearing bloodlust is not the right way to avoid getting caught.

One of the most violent person I knew was a ****o-ryu Sensei that I bounced with years ago at Paprazzi here in Toronto.
He was also a former kick boxer, boxer and liked strippers and long walks on the beach, if they were with strippers with big boobs and who like anal sex, but I digress.
He was a sport guy, loved point competitions, he also demolished 2 Bandidos in a way that I thought he was gonna be a goner.
Turns out he was far more "untouchable" that they were.
Anyways, what he did to hem was nothing short of cruel and way beyond the boundries of "a beating".

[grasshopper 2.0]

it really depends on the fighter - sorry to say. i've met new MMA guys and was able to hold my own. More experienced MMA guys would take me down. Some days, i was able to hit them, other days they were able to hit me.

strategically, the most interesting observation is that they aren't used to dealing with other non-MMA guys. in other words, do what you do and hope for the best..and i try to stay away from the ground. hard stuff, but lots of fun! nothing but respect for these guys.

[AdrianK]

I don't know if anyone has said this before but -

There is no such thing as an MMA guy versus a martial artist.

These terms need to be abandoned as they force you to think of a martial artist or an MMA guy in a boxed set of limitations.

There are no limitations. Ground game, wrestling, kung fu, karate, all of them are concepts and templates on how to fight.

All are interchangeable, adaptable, infinitely variable.

In the end it is how the person expresses themselves.

There is no karate, kung fu, or mma when you fight. A person does what they must do, to win.

The terms are all bull****.

[AdrianK]

you are correct, nothing is to stop people from fighting without rules, but you must remember that MMA is a sport, so the competitors training in it and for it, train according to a set of rules and regualtions. it's a one on one match, in a ring or something, with a ref - no weapons, no eye-gouging, no biting, no deliberate breaks, no fish-hooking, etc, etc, and when you train according to these rules, you develop patterns and what-not of reaction...

I've yet to see a sparring match at ANY martial arts school, MMA or not, that has ever sparred with real weapons, eye gouging, biting, deliberate breaks, fish-hooking, or whatever the **** else.

You can drill it, but if you don't do spar with it, it doesn't mean ****. You don't think these guys understand how to gouge eyes, bite, deliberately break, or fish-hook? You don't think that's a natural reaction? These ideas have been around long before any martial art. And its just as easy for someone who doesn't train them, to switch it on.

And most people who take MMA don't do it for competition. MMA is incredibly popular right now.

[TenTigers]

Your assumption that a sport fighter's not gonna go there is just plain false. Truly violent people gravitate towards violence and you're going to find some pretty violent people that make their money competing in a sport where the taste of your own blood is common. .

this is it in a nutshell. Anypone who's been in MA for any amount of time, knows that there are guys who are just plain nasty, brutal, violent, and have no remorse.
Many of these are attracted to MA. The ones who can tough it out in full contact fighting, no matter what the sport, art, etc is, all have at least a piece of that.
So place them in a street encounter, and they will maul their opponent, with brutality..and good technique.

Yes, even guys like Chuck Norris and Bill Wallace, who outside the ring were all sweet and milk n' cookies, were total priks inside the ring, and hurt their opponents with no remorse. They are not the gentlemen they would like you to believe.
It's a myth.

look, I'm a peaceful guy. I am not confrontational. I avoid and dislike encounters. But when I hit someone, anyone,(even friends) there is a part of me inside that gets very happy. I don't understand it, I don't really like it. It kinda scares me, because I think that it might be a little sick. But it's there.

[sanjuro_ronin]

this is it in a nutshell. Anypone who's been in MA for any amount of time, knows that there are guys who are just plain nasty, brutal, violent, and have no remorse.
Many of these are attracted to MA. The ones who can tough it out in full contact fighting, no matter what the sport, art, etc is, all have at least a piece of that.
So place them in a street encounter, and they will maul their opponent, with brutality..and good technique.

Yes, even guys like Chuck Norris and Bill Wallace, who outside the ring were all sweet and milk n' cookies, were total priks inside the ring, and hurt their opponents with no remorse. They are not the gentlemen they would like you to believe.
It's a myth.

look, I'm a peaceful guy. I am not confrontational. I avoid and dislike encounters. But when I hit someone, anyone,(even friends) there is a part of me inside that gets very happy. I don't understand it, I don't really like it. It kinda scares me, because I think that it might be a little sick. But it's there.

There is much correctness in this post, much like ones large intestine, it is wrought with danger...

[Lucas]

look, I'm a peaceful guy. I am not confrontational. I avoid and dislike encounters. But when I hit someone, anyone,(even friends) there is a part of me inside that gets very happy. I don't understand it, I don't really like it. It kinda scares me, because I think that it might be a little sick. But it's there.

Honestly, its reassuring to see someone else thinking this.

[TenTigers]

let's all be brutally honest-if you like sparring,
then there is something inside you that likes hitting people.
Nobody enjoys sparring because they enjoy getting hit.
And, if you like full contact fighting,
then you really like hitting people.
Sure, we all say that we enjoy challenging ourselves, facing ourselves, the sport, it's like a chess match, yadda-yadda.
But when you get right down to it, there are puh-lenty of ways to accomplish those goals,
and none of them involve bashing someone in the face or kicking their ribs.

-and who here among us does not enjoy laying in a good choke and feeling your opponent tap?
Or the feeling when your sidekick slams into his midsection,
or the snap of his head when you land that hook?

C'mon, the first time you KO'd someone, even if it was your best friend, you had a ******* for a week. DON'T LIE!!!

Now, as you're all nodding your head and laughing, do you ever stop to realize just how sick that really is?

we like to paint this lovely picture of MAists being spiritually elevated pacifists, but no matter how warm n cuddly we see ourselves, down there inside is Pennywise the Clown...way down...down here...where they all float!
MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA

[TenTigers]

Honestly, its reassuring to see someone else thinking this.
what are you, a sales rep for Abilify?:p

[Lucas]

what are you, a sales rep for Abilify?:p

rofl, i had to google that.

When you're down here with us, you'll float too!

[Yoshiyahu]

What is the best way to defeat an MMA guy?

What are his weaknesses?

[Yoshiyahu]

Wow that covers it...How to beat MMA guys!

1.Tickle them
2.Kick them
3.Tap them
4.Use Lubricant
5.Out Wrestle them

[GeneChing]

Sick Brüno (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51438) on them. :)