level of skill in fighting

[Hitman]

Dear all,
How can you tell whether:

a) the teacher is teaching you genuine kung fu before you join the class
b) his level of skills

if you cannot see him or his students fight or sparring?



I ask this question is because I read a book about tai chi last month. The author from China stated that a highly skillful martial artist could tell the level of the skills of another martial art practitioner just by looking at how he stand!

I found this to be unbelievable, this is because the late sifu Leung Sheung could not recognise the late Grandmaster Yip Man's skills just by looking at him. He only became Grandmaster Yip Man's student after Grandmaster Yip Man defeated him in a fight.
The policemen who practised choy li fut only became Grandmaster Yip Man's students after he defeated them. None of them knew the level of Grandmaster Yip Man's skills until they actually fought him.

There is a chi sao clip on youtube where a wing chun master got hit while doing chi sao with a non co-operative partner in a demonstration. Well, any one can see the level of skills that master had based on that clip.


However, there is a forum member here, who keeps on telling people that you can tell the level of skills of other martial arts practitioner in a demonstration with a co-operative opponent from a video clip on youtube.
I know that I cannot tell how good anyone is in fighting just by looking at him/ her or in any demonstration involving co-operative opponent.
Therefore, how do the author and our forum member do it? What are their secrets?

Thank you very much

[Lucas]

one can guess what someones skill is by watching them perform any number of things.

but you MUST cross hands to one degree or another to be able to assess anything more than an educated or non educated guess.

I would also say you may needs cross hands more than one time.

i can talk about basket ball, and show you a ton of game plans, i can show some free shots. but you wont know my real game till we play. only be able to guess if i got SOME skill or NO skill. you can discern between a beginner and someone who has time behind them, but there is no concrete way to tell skill just by looking at someone or watching them perform any sort of co-operative material.

fighting and performing are not the same thing.

[xcakid]

fighting and performing are not the same thing.

So true. A good example is, how many contemporary wushu guys you see fighting Sanda? Yet their forms are amazing and the athleticism involve in performing those forms are tops. Yet I have yet to see anyone fight at a level past what I would consider intermediate at best.

That is not a very rounded martial artist if you ask me. Its too one sided. Much like an MMA fighter is also one sided in his/her training by focusing only on the fighting aspect of martial arts.

So you may have a Sifu that is good at forms but sucks at fighting. A sifu that is good at fighting but sucks at forms. A sifu that is good at forms and fighting but does not now how to teach or pass on his skill. Difficulty is finding a sifu that can do all competently.

You gotta watch and participate in a class to see if a sifu will be able to teach you. If you are looking to fight, you will not like a sifu whose emphasis is forms, or vice versa.

[sanjuro_ronin]

You can get an idea of someones speed by how fast they move, of someones power by how hard they hit the bag, but the only way to "judge" their fighting skill is by how will they fight, and not just fight their students/classmates, but fight well trained fighters.

[Shaolinlueb]

i'm a level 4 super saiyen when i fight, but dont even go super saiyen when i train and teach.


[waiting for hardwork's answer]

[lkfmdc]

if you want to learn how to fight study with someone who demonstrates they know how to train you to fight

do they fight anywhere?

do they spar in class?

can they demonstrate the skills? or just talk about them?

The following clips aren't anything special in our school, they were just filmed during regular classes with regular people

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DO2kDm4jdWY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hxximmy9Wk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En4nat3BvCM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zooMmTTr8U

[punchdrunk]

To know someone's skill at fighting you have to fight them your self, then you'll appreciate it. lkfmdc is right, do they spar, do they fight?
You can observe someone's level of awareness however, what positions and situations they put themselves in can indicate a lot from a self defense point of view. That can be observed as simply as walking up to them an introducing yourself to them, no secrets there.

[Scott R. Brown]

You cannot always tell when you fight someone too.

I no longer train with groups, but when I trained with people who didn't know me, for the first few times I never fight to my capacity, I like to spend my time feeling out the skill level of my opponent in order to exploit their weaknesses at a later date.

I don't like to show what I am capable of all at once either. If you show them everything you have got, they can figure you out, if they are smart fighters, so, dish your skills out in small increment, is my philosophy and always try to keep something hidden for when you may need it in the future!

I don't mind losing if I learn something in the process!

[AdrianK]

You can tell how technically correct they are by analyzing their movements.

For instance, if someone throws a jab, but does not rotate their shoulders or hips, you can gauge how powerful their jab is.

In kung fu, regardless of style, you can gauge root, power, speed, flow, etc.

Reading people is a different skill, but equally as useful. Learning and understanding the hows and whys people act in general can give you a good idea as to how confident someone is with their technique. Their dialogue with you allows you to gauge whether they are speaking from within themselves, or whether they are reciting ideas that they were told.

It is very possible to gauge someones skill level without fighting them, but at the same time, even ones self does not know their own skill level until they are tested in live combat.