Where to find 8" diameter PVC for wooden dummy

[Pacman]

I want to build my own wooden dummy.

I see that people sell PVC wooden dummies made with 5' long 8" diameter PVC pipe.

I was not able to find PVC pipe of these dimensions at my local hardware store. I could only find 8" pipe at about 2' in length.

Anyone know where to get it?

[sanjuro_ronin]

I want to build my own wooden dummy.

I see that people sell PVC wooden dummies made with 5' long 8" diameter PVC pipe.

I was not able to find PVC pipe of these dimensions at my local hardware store. I could only find 8" pipe at about 2' in length.

Anyone know where to get it?

Industrial piping place will carry it, get the SCH80 if you can, its thicker and more heavy Duty.

[TenTigers]

pvc dummies are useless. They do not have the density needed for training proper attributes. But, if all you wanted to do is practice position, I guess you can build one, but for that, you could rig up something much simpler.
There is no substitute for the real thing. Just like there are no substitutes or shortcuts to proper training.

[Pacman]

pvc dummies are useless. They do not have the density needed for training proper attributes. But, if all you wanted to do is practice position, I guess you can build one, but for that, you could rig up something much simpler.
There is no substitute for the real thing. Just like there are no substitutes or shortcuts to proper training.

well my sijo uses it and i trust him

[Pacman]

Industrial piping place will carry it, get the SCH80 if you can, its thicker and more heavy Duty.

do you know what section of the phone book they would be under ?

[chusauli]

PVC is garbage.

It does not have the sound feedback a wood dummy has. Sound and vibration is instrumental part of the training.

[Yoshiyahu]

PVC is garbage.

It does not have the sound feedback a wood dummy has. Sound and vibration is instrumental part of the training.

Why do you need to hear a certan vibration?


pvc dummies are useless. They do not have the density needed for training proper attributes. But, if all you wanted to do is practice position, I guess you can build one, but for that, you could rig up something much simpler.
There is no substitute for the real thing. Just like there are no substitutes or shortcuts to proper training.

What attributes can you not train with a PVC pipe?

Also how hard should one hit the dummy?

[duende]

You may disagree,

But a "real" hit, as in one that penetrates and goes through the target, has a certain sound to it. As opposed to a slap or surface hit.

As Robert brought up... If you listen to the sound and feel the vibration of the dummy, you can learn a lot more about your own energy and how effective you are at transmitting it.

I agree, a PVC dummy is less than ideal.

[chusauli]

Why do you need to hear a certan vibration?



What attributes can you not train with a PVC pipe?


Try hitting a wood one, then a PVC one and report back to us.

I don't want to cheat you out of the experience...

[Pacman]

interesting points about sound and vibration.

i train for power on the heavy bag...just starting out on the dummy

[Yoshiyahu]

Try hitting a wood one, then a PVC one and report back to us.

I don't want to cheat you out of the experience...

I don't know anyone with a PVC one...my Sifu and Sihings all have wooden dummies...

Please share your experience an answer the qestions as possible?

[Lee Chiang Po]

Personally, I think that if PVC was common way back when, we would not know what a wooden dummy is. Wood was the most common material in use for such things back then and so it had become tradition. pvc can be used to make some really nice dummies with some planning. I prefer using rope to suspend it rather than having it slide back and forth on wooden boards. More life like and more functional really. And if you get real nasty with it you can make all sorts of noise on one. I prefer using polished oak wood for the arms and the leg, but have used the 3 inch leach field tubing used in septic systems. It is stiff, but allows some forced movement as an arm would allow, and you could force it to turn 1/4 turn without having to slide it back and forth. Way more functional to me. I think wood looks real nice though.

[TenTigers]

Wood has a different density than PVC, and different woods have varying degrees of density and resonance. Striking teakwood is different than striking maple. It gives you different feedback.

If you are looking for power generation, you need to hit something with the right amount of mass and density.
You also need it to be mounted properly. The slats are not simply an archaic method, they give and flex and rebound, thus adding to the ability of the jong to help with the development of power issueing, specifically, inch power. It is not simply whether or not you can slam it.

The resiliency is also felt in the arms and leg(s) of the jong. Dangling on rope, whether or not it gives you a quarter turn and you think this is realism-that is NOT what the jong was originally designed for. (although, I am not saying that it isn't a good idea to work with, just not for the purposes of a WCK Jong. CLF has many jongs, each for different purposes)

If you want to develop position, snaking your hands and arms in and out of the limbs, footwork patterns, angles, distance, etc, then the material is not important.
(I practice footwork patterns using a chair's legs.)

This is my understanding of the WCK MYJ from my limited experience, so it's just my .02.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I agree with Rik and Sifu Chu, wood is the way to go, although mine is made out of steel pipe ( its how I roll *****es !!).
Even the thickest of PVC or ABS will not give you the density of Wood.

[t_niehoff]

well my sijo uses it and i trust him

And therein lies your problem.

[couch]

I have a water-filled base PVC dummy from Warrior here in Canada. I love it.

I used to hit my Sifu's dummy which was traditionally mounted on 1x2's and was an all-wood construction. The ONLY thing I miss is how the 1x2 slats made the dummy 'bounce' back after you hit it. This helps build Ging and gives some feedback.

Other than that detail, which I train elsewhere like the heavy bag, etc - I've very happy. So, IMO, try the PVC dummy. Try a wood one. Try a steel one... Then make your own informed decision.

For looking in the phone book, you could look under plumbing/septic suppliers, etc.

I remember, though, that Schedule 80 PVC was very expensive for 6-8 feet of it. So shop around!

All the best in your dummy construction,
K

[Lee Chiang Po]

I agree with Rik and Sifu Chu, wood is the way to go, although mine is made out of steel pipe ( its how I roll *****es !!).
Even the thickest of PVC or ABS will not give you the density of Wood.

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Last edited by sanjuro_ronin; Today at 08:47 AM.


Have you ever hauled off and slammed into a heavy pvc culvert or sewer pipe? I have to say that if density equates to hardness, this stuff is 16 times harder than wood of any kind. And a 5 foot length weighs around 200 pounds, which is going to be much heavier than a 5 foot length of 8 inch wooden log. The body can be on wooden or pvc runners and give you the same sort of bounce or whatever. The reason I like the big seagrass rope, or moor lines, is that it offers strong resistance and yet can be forced to spin. I do a lot of this work. I can spin a person and take his side or back quickly. Fighting is a lot better if you are the only one hitting. It is not just dangling from a rope like a hanged man.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I agree with Rik and Sifu Chu, wood is the way to go, although mine is made out of steel pipe ( its how I roll *****es !!).
Even the thickest of PVC or ABS will not give you the density of Wood.

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Last edited by sanjuro_ronin; Today at 08:47 AM.


Have you ever hauled off and slammed into a heavy pvc culvert or sewer pipe? I have to say that if density equates to hardness, this stuff is 16 times harder than wood of any kind. And a 5 foot length weighs around 200 pounds, which is going to be much heavier than a 5 foot length of 8 inch wooden log. The body can be on wooden or pvc runners and give you the same sort of bounce or whatever. The reason I like the big seagrass rope, or moor lines, is that it offers strong resistance and yet can be forced to spin. I do a lot of this work. I can spin a person and take his side or back quickly. Fighting is a lot better if you are the only one hitting. It is not just dangling from a rope like a hanged man.

8" sch80 PVC pipe with .500" wall thickness is 8.522 lbs per foot so a 6ft piece would be 51.132 lbs.

[chusauli]

Last night my students asked the same question of why a Wood Jong, instead of a metal or PVC one. I answered:

The sound it makes when you strike it will give you a distinct crack, and you will notice if your timing is off, you will not hear that focused sound. I demonstrated with Gaun Sao, Kwun Sao, Huen/Kau Sao, Jut Sao/Jing Jeung, and they were all distinct when hit properly. But when not hit properly, the sound was not sharp, or produced two sounds. In Wing Chun Kuen, "Kuen Mo Leung Heung" (Fist has not two sounds).

Try it on PVC or metal, and see what the difference is. You'd think that hypothetically, you would hear no difference...

[AdrianK]

Like the difference between a classically trained pianist playing on a grand piano versus a cheap keyboard :D

[Pacman]

And therein lies your problem.

i guess the answer is to...

a) not trust anyone

or

b) think that you know everything about MA training

i talked to my sijo about this. the way we train our dummy is not for power generation etc, so the dummy does not have to be indestructible. i evaluated what he said and came to my own conclusion :o. shocking.

humor me for those of you who would know...what types of places carry this type of pipe? sanjuro said industrial supplies...what section of the phone book is taht in?

[Phil Redmond]

Wood is better but PVC is not useless as a training device. Something is better than nothing. And as to a certain sound boxers and other fighting disciplines hit very hard without using a "wooden" dummy. Being able to hit hard and fast is more valuable than what sound you make.

[Lee Chiang Po]

8" sch80 PVC pipe with .500" wall thickness is 8.522 lbs per foot so a 6ft piece would be 51.132 lbs.


Mine is made of culvert pipe. I measured it today and it is 12 inches in diameter. I cut it off to 6 feet in length, and it weighs close to 200 pounds. It is over 3/4 inch thick and super hard. I used a hole saw to make the holes for the oak arms, but I also have pvc arms and leg. I have dis-assembled it and am in the process of moving it now. I never pay attention to the sound anyway, but then I do not consider that to be of any consiquence. Sound can be misleading, and it does not aid in your application. The dummy is merely an aid to train when you don't want to use a real human. For obvious reasons. But that is just me. I have never fell to tradition. It is ok I suppose, but it has never dictated to me which route to take. I might be wrong about this, but I think mine might still be around when my grand children are my age.
I have set it up to represent a man of 6 feet. When I am in stance the face is up much higher than my own face. I have noticed that most dummies are shorter then the person using it. I find that this is rather unrealistic compared to most situations I have been involved in.
If you are buying one for a school, or you just want a wooden dummy, wood looks good and it is very functional. But if you are only interested in pure functionality then a pvc dummy will get the job done.

[shaolinexecutioner]

There is no substitute for the real thing. The real thing? You mean like hitting a human or hitting a log?