Is it true southern praying mantis produces better fighters then the northern praying mantis style??

[deadlypower]

I heard the southern mantis style is more powerful then it's northern counterpart.

power

[8stepsifu]

Yes thats true...lots of famous fighters like...........uh.....and then there is..................come to think of it, no southern mantis is pretty much unheard of. I've never heard of a southern praying mantis fighter. From pics on the net they seem more the kind that don't train physically. They talk a lot, but I've never seen any of them fight or heard about them doing well fighting.

[RAYNYSC]

I don't know where you heard or got your infomation from? About the southern mantis system
being more powerful then, the northern mantis system,as well as the southern mantis producing better fighters then there northern counterpart as you put it...

I have to ask myself did I miss something here or what?.... Becauce when I think of the northern mantis system. I think of the northern 7 star mantis system.... The list of masters from this system speaks for itself all you have to do is look at the history of the northern mantis system to realize that!!!!....

Now grant you the northern 7 star mantis system has been & stll is a proven system when it comes down to fighting....

That fact is without question!.... Now if you want to believe that it is then thats on you...

All that tells me is that you haven't found or seen a real northern 7 star mantis master/teacher who knows the system well enough to teach it not to mention explain it to his student for that matter!....

RAYNYSC

[deadlypower]

What about the southern mantis style ,taught by GIRWAN SUE ,based in PERTH. He has some pretty good students and his style is smashing ,comparing that to the 7STAR MANTIS STYLE ,that came through to our school,(refer to DUTY OF CARE)They complained of the training being too hard and vigorous for them,and the training was for all in general,not that the training was singled out specially for them.How do you explain this as one of the main complaint was an instructor,of the 7 STAR PRAYING MANTIS STYLE.??

power

[robertwilliam]

I don't know, I wasn't too impressed by the southern mantis websites that Sifu Carl posted a day or two ago - there was one in particular that had 8 - 12 second mpegs with applications.# 7 was OK because there was some semblence of footwork.If I saw those, it would definately deter me from taking up southern style.BTW, thanks to Sifu Carl for posting those websites, there was some good reading.

[Juggler]

As a student of the Southern Mantis system, this thread is extremely disappointing, and somewhat offensive!

I'm not going to blabber on about which style makes better fighters, and all the other associated rubbish. It's the individual trainee and the trainer that shapes fighters. It is my personal belief that the style has only secondary influence on the matter of producing good fighters.

Here is a link to a Chow Gar school website (I've posted this link nearly a dozen times :) ) =>
http://www.chinesekungfuacademy.com/home.htm

[mad taoist]

Juggler... is Henry Sue your sifu ? I have friends who train with him. Let me know.

'If we do not go within, we go without'.

[mantis king]

I agree with Juggler, it is indeed the person and not the style that makes a good fighter. But in defence of 7* praying mantis of which I do, we have had southern mantis students come to challenge us, who left very demoralised finding themselves very vulnerable to the 7* mantis sweeps, for which they had no reply.
But one must understand that each style has its good and bad points. No style is completely perfect and no style completely sucks, so therefore it has to be the individual that makes a good fighter.

max power

[Juggler]

Mantis King:

I find your story of Southern Mantis having no reply to sweeps as being quite interesting. What sort of sweeps are you talking about? Leg sweeps or arm sweeps?
If leg sweeps, those Southern Mantis students are probably in the junior grades, where kicking and kick defense is only taught as a side-salad.
If arm sweeps, I'm quite stunned that those students could not deal with it. :eek: Unless they were very junior.

[Falcor]

Southern mantis not good fighters? Well, they may not be the most famous, but then again, they didn't really go around advertising and spreading their art very much in teh past like the Northern mantis people did - most practitioners were Hakka and they liked it somewhat secretive just fine. ANyway, I've met enough S-Mantis guys who fought quite viciously and were excellent sparring partners. And it's the art, it's the artist! Heck I know of an Aikidoka (and yu know how much grief they get for Aikido not being "street-worthy"...) who is the slipperiest sunavagun when sparring (yes, he spars!). So neither N or S mantis the best. They're both good.

...don't think you are, know you are...

[handsome]

Southern Praying Mantis is Chu Gar Tong Long--yes,
Southern Mantis is much more practical and powerful than Northern Tong Long IMHO.

[joedoe]

We have one troll called beatiful, now we have another called Handsome.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Guns don't kill people, I kill people

[robertwilliam]

What the fuc@ are you talking about Handsome ? It has to do with the violence/intent that you apply your art - you don't know shi@ just like your butt buddy Whambo - so, wayyy shut the fuc@ up.I will offer you the same challenge to you as Whambo - just read it Bitc@ and email me.Other than that, shut the fuc* up.Have you ever been in a street brawl? That will test your "art"

[loki]

Like lawclansman ( who happens to know both N & S mantis ) said , one is not better than the other. They're just different.

NO ROAD IS AS LONG OR FILLED WITH AS MANY OBSTACLES AS THE ONE TRAVELLED BY THE CHINESE BOXER. FEW ATTEMPT TO TAKE IT . THOSE THAT REACH IT'S END ARE EVEN FEWER.

[tnwingtsun]

North,South,Hit either one with a can of Black Flag and they're out,fly swatters work good also.
Or ya could just squash them by stepping on them.
Errr.....ahhh....,just kidding guys,don't get mad,
what did this guy expect to hear on a Northern
Mantis board?
:rolleyes:

[cha kuen]

The reason you may see southern mantis guys apply better techniques is because s. mantis is not a flashy style.

First of all, both styles are very rich and no one is better than the other.

If you look at s. mantis, the normal person's view would be " this style is weird. Why are their stances like that. I don't want to learn this style. "

The normal person would see northern mantis more appealing then southern mantis. So the people thta do join s. mantis have something about their personality that makes them work hard. Do you guys understand what I'm trying to say? A style like s. mantis or wing chun - you're probably going to find more people in there that know what they are doing. In other styles such as northern shaolin or northern mantis, you'll most likely find people that do kickboxing. Maybe it's the number of forms that the systems in northern kung fu have. Who knows.

Don't get me wrong. I come from a northern mantis background but I'm just shedding light on the topic. Personally I've seen more wc and s. mantis guys that know what their doing, more than northern mantis or shaolin. If you asked me to join wingchun or s. mantis when I was 16, I would say HELL NO. If you ask me now, I would do it.

[Arod1972]

:cool:

I do not wish to fight.

[Arod1972]

cha kuen -
thank you for bringing this up..
this is what exacly happened to me. i was an 8 step student for 2 years and was kind always just woundering what move i was going to use in a fight, looking for that lucky punch. Then the school burned down and i still was woundering. So i decided to go to wing chun and i will never go back. wing chun makes much more sense as far as it being like a science and holding up to beeing an effiecient system using economics of movement, time and space concepts... 6 gate thorey, strong structure... it may not look flowery but it sure is effective and will surprise you with the truth. Most people that join wing chun are older(twenties and up).Anyway this is my experience. gota go...

I do not wish to fight.

[rogue]

Dumb question. If Southern Mantis bears no resembelence to Northern Mantis, why the hostility? Is it merely the use of the word Mantis or something else?

[cha kuen]

I have no hostility toward southern mantis. I think it's a great style that focuses a lot on the "ging." I have no beef against any style actually.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Thankyou you're right. Wing Chun is by far a superior style to 8 step mantis.

It is important not to take up too much space as there is less room for every one in this world as the population increase. What foresight those wing chun masters had when they developed the style.

I love the 6 gate theory. If only we have 6 arms -each arm to guard a gate

Like southern mantis, wing chun practitioners don't move around too much. But I'm sure with 6 flapping arms, your gates will be well guarded and you won't inadvertantly get yourself lost from hopping like those N mantis practioners

I mean how stupid must one be to look for an opening to throw a punch. First and foremost, is to adhere to the concepts underpinning the style. Otherwise you just won't be hitting your opponents the right way (the honorable way)!

Maximus Materialize!

[Kiasyd]

Huh?!?! Do you want to have six arms???!? :D

-- Kiasyd

[NorthernMantis]

Truth is in the eye of the beholder.I had a friend who took wing chun and northern praying mantis and he favored mantis( I think).Doesn't matter what style it is north,south,east,west,internal,external if it works for you well then style isn't that of a big deal.

I've seen southern mantis,don't know how it works exaclty though, but I thought the forms were pretty cool.I'm not sure wich type of southern mantis it was.The guy was from Henry Poo Yee's school.Does anyone know what s. mantis style it is?

"Always be ready"

[8stepsifu]

You don't "Wait for that one punch" you make the openings, use intry techniques to close distance, move with the hand changes. Wing Chun is also great, I just think it's pathetic that after 2 years you had no idea to use it.


Ego Maxipad- another great post


What if the Hokey Pokey is what it's all about?

share kung fu vids....www.imesh.com

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

The style - Kwong Sai Jook Lum Gee Tong Long Pai
Check it out at http://www.ckfa.com/

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Guys,

put it this way. I can be as hostile as I like to Wing Chun and Southern Mantis because the styles are crap. But I won't -i'll be nice.

Although Southern stylist have hardened their hands and feet through silly conditioning exercises (oops did I say silly oh well), they are still people with feelings and can be hurt easily. i do feel pity for all those who have wasted their years of training on things like Bork Choy.

By the way, I'm a spastic in a wheel chair and I have mastered Southern Mantis and teach Bork Choy to students willing to pay. I'm so happy that there are silly people in this world (oops did I say silly - sincere apologies for all those who think they are smart) LOL

Maximus Materialize!

[cha kuen]

Let's end it this way on a positive note. Southern mantis is a great style and so is wing chun. Northern mantis is also a very rich style.

How you see one sifu interpret a style may not necessarily be another sifus interpretation.

My point in my earlier post is that there's a certain maturity level in s. mantis and wc practioners because they are not lured in by the weapons and forms. Not to say that all northern mantis people were lured in by forms and weapons but it's just common sense. A teenager wouldn't look at a wc form and go " WOW! I WANT TO LEARN THAT!" However, the teenage may see a northern mantis guy doing a set and say, " Cool, I want to learn that."

[BeiTangLang]

My third color-sash & still no flowery techniques.....what do they look like??

"It's all the same; Only the names have changed........."

[Arod1972]

I want to make clear i am looking from a Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun view, which is different traditional Wing Chun (Yip Man).....

When I was a student in 8 step mantis we did a lot of forms and two man drills. We learned alot of joint locks, perry, blocks, throws and we did a lot of endurances. They all work but let me give you a couple examples of what problems i came to in applications..

1. For someone of my size (5'6") its not practical to grab, because I will most likely not be a able to grab a person twice my size by the wrist or root and have total control. And in 8 step there is a lot of grabbing.
2. Stealing hand techneq- takes too much time (too many movements)according to wing chuns time and space concept. Moving too much and bouncing around can become a loss of time and unstable for a WC practicioner.
3. There is no fighting stance other that you make one yourself, which to me looks like boxing from what i have seen from my teachers stance. As in WC we have a proper way of standing (asking hand postition) and intercepting anything you can throw. (this is where 6 gate theory comes in)

These are some of the snares i have run into when trying this method on a wing chun opponent.

I think 8 step is a very good style but its not right for me and i believe it would take a longer time to learn how to fight with this style rather than Wing chun, because there are so many forms to know before you get to the applications.. it takes a while. it may be different in other kwoons though, i dont know.

But you know i did learn alot there on how to throw many different punches, kicks, joint locks, etc..in that aspect it is awsome because i can throw some punches that the average person knows nothing about. that is fun.

I cant think of anything else to say right now, but hope this make me a little more clear..
Bye

I do not wish to fig

[This message was edited by BFD on 04-12-01 at 12:42 PM.]

[robertwilliam]

BFD - Just a comment on your last email on this topic - You probally haven't taken 8step long enough. Just to illustrate;

size doesn't matter in kung fu -

You need to use the techniques that works for you, eventually, you should be able to pull off all the techniques of the system - maybe some better than others but all . Case in point, the grand master of 8step is probally shorter than you.You can't grab sombody's wrist? then use your height to your advantage duck under the punch and counter to the ribs.Just because the counter doesn't abide to the exact order of operations that an 8 step tech would have, doesn't mean that it isn't 8 step, or you are not a practicioner of 8 step.If you worked on all the grabbing/strength/speed drills grabbing should be easy.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

BFD

You're just clueless about 8 step mantis and northern systems in general.

On the point of grappling, just like the punch or what ever appendage of the body it uses, the movement is based on underlying principals common to all. Either you've got a rotten sifu who isn't teaching the right stuff or you haven't had time to understand the concepts properly.

You don't need to learn 108 ways to grapple or 128 kicking techniques + 64 deadly throws or what ever. The response should be purely stimulus driven - you just do because it is the efficient thing to do. If you try remembering techniques you'll never be a competent martial artist.

On the point of stances: There are a finite set of stances which set the parameters of movement. Of course in a real fight you don't see fixed stances because you're constantly moving and adjusting and so is you opponent (you would think). Don't get confused with boxing.

Length of training: Much quicker to learn northern kung fu than it is to learn southern kung fu.

About Wing Chun: In my opinion it is a crap style. But you're right on one point. You can see the good-ole fixed stance. Wing Cun practitioners are so stiff and funny in their movements. The funniest thing of all is that some practitioners actually take themselves seriously. I feel sorry for them.

Maximus Materialize!

[Arod1972]

Ego
You really go low to call a system you dont even know about "crap". Just that statment makes you ignorant. I never said 8 step was a bad style, I said I dont prefer it for MYSELF.
And at least I should have the right to comment my points of view about a style i was taking for 2 years, thank you. Let me say it again, 8 step is a GOOD style, but for myself I prefer Wing Chun, it makes more sense to me...
Did you understand that?

oh and James Sun is a taller than me...
:rolleyes:

I do not wish to fight

[Sam]

Kwong Sai Jook Lum Gee Tong Long Pai Has a lineage of famous proven fighters.
Li Siem See
Lam Sang See
Wong Yu Kung
These men were incredible and feared as well as revered. This is not to say southern is better that northern.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

BFD:

You're right. Wing Chun does have its good points. The school which I used to visit put on spectecular lion dancing during Chinese New Year. Their 2 man drills are also very clean and well rehersed.

Whereas, if you learn Northern Kung Fu, you'll probably get none of the above. What you learn is how to fight - but maybe that's not what you're going for.

You probably prefer the fancy uniforms and occasional trips to the local Chinese restaurant with the senior students and sifu.

Maximus Materialize!

[joedoe]

Ego,

Northern styles do lion dance too :)

Guns don't kill people, I kill people

[Arod1972]

Ok whatever.....i am not going to insult you back, just tell you the facts as they are bub..
Unlike the wing chun your used to SEEING, fancy uniforms and stuff like that, we only have basic tee shirts and sweats with a logo and just until now wear a sash. I dont even know why we ware a sash though. Must be because we just went public or something. In 8 step we had to ware unforms and sash. it was more like a belt race there, always trying to get through the forms so i could get to how to use them in applictions.

One with 2 roots becomes a stronger tree..

I do not wish to fight

[This message was edited by BFD on 04-15-01 at 10:14 AM.

[This message was edited by BFD on 04-15-01 at 10:17 AM.

[This message was edited by BFD on 04-15-01 at 10:17 AM.]

[handsome]

Ego--BFD is telling the truth, Wing Chun makes sense compare to many styles of kungfu, of course you need to let go of your BIG EGO before you can see the truth behind the great art of WING CHUN,
just my 2 cents, no need to get mad and please look up the yellow pages to call your local Wing Chun schools and try for a month , then tell me about it...

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

BFD / ABandit

Oh those schools you mentioned had too much southern influence. Back in the days when Tsing Mo association was started, the number of forms proliferated in many nothern systems and become Southernized in HK.

Maximus Materialize!

[Netfist]

hi,

I'm new and wish to say " hi " to everyone. i've been studying TCM for many years, IMO, i do think southern fists might be a little more practical comparing to many northern kung fu. Ooop......Ooop...... i dont wish to fight.

Netfist

[joedoe]

Hi Netfist. Welcome to the forum. Hope you enjoy it here and don't get challenged too much :D

-------------------------------------
You have no chance to survive - make your time.

[Netfist]

abandit,

thanks, i do try to stay here for a while before someone jumping up to kick my butt.....Oooop...it's bud lite...hi...time.

Netfist

;)