Is the MMA / BJJ Craze finally over?

[MightyB]

It seems that MMA's starting to feel like it's no longer mainstream and starting to get... well -- old. The brand seems to be in trouble- too many embarrassing fights, too many sham promoters, too many McMMA dojos - it's no longer new or exciting, and the crowd - well you all know the crowd. And long gone are the days of Rolls exclaiming that Royce is going to choke all of us out on the kfm forum.

Is it done and what's next? I say it's about time. MMA did change MA for the better. It reintroduced the ground game, fitness, and cross training. It reinvigorated the martial arts and challenged the a lot of preconceived notions. And it did help to weed out the BS.

In light of all this - how's KF going to make it's dramatic comeback as the king of all that is martial?

[David Jamieson]

*bunch a stuff*

In light of all this - how's KF going to make it's dramatic comeback as the king of all that is martial?

stabbings and lot's of em. :p

[TenTigers]

we gotta pay some great mma guy to fight wearing silk pajamas...

or do a movie about a badguy mma guy getting beaten by a good guy TCMA guy.
-just don't get Ralph Machio

[MightyB]

we gotta pay some great mma guy to fight wearing silk pajamas...


That will work as long as it's not Kimbo...

[TenTigers]

Kimbo is up for the title role of the Crusher Lang Story, presently titled,"Crusher."
Soon to be followed by "Crusher II,III,IV..."
It follows his life as a bouncer, then boxer, then para-military crime fighter, then a cabbie, then a washed-up old fat bastid...

[David Jamieson]

I'm telling you guys, it'll be about stabbings. Lots of them.

Change will surely come after the stabbings.

remember, use only chinese weapons!

[golden arhat]

the craze has died down, but the sport makes money so it wont die
it will get bigger and bigger but it wotn have the same buzz

if it makes money it stays in this world!

[TenTigers]

that, and the fact that it scores as one of the highest percentages of injuries.
But, also realize that your target market consists of 17-28 yr-old males, brimming with testosterone.

[yutyeesam]

This is an interesting topic, I was just talking about this with some friends who are in sport-combat disciplines (ie boxing, wrestling).

The craze and megalo-hype? Yes, that is leveling. But, MMA has firmly rooted its presence in the sports arena as an event that will stay forever, and will always be a proven draw.

But as an integration into martial arts schools? There's a chance that it could fade, because of the demographics it appeals to, as TenTigers pointed out.

Let's face it:
Physical arts that have a hierarchical colored belt ranking system, that intentionally integrate lessons on character development and all that jazz are deemed more valuable to society, that people with disposable income could see their families getting involved with for the long term...

vs.

Physical arts that actually train you to be able to fight, which requires lots of full contact, and getting clocked.

This fact I doubt will ever change.

BUT, thanks the the MMA, there's a better checks and balance system for those enterprising ego-maniacal individuals making outrageous claims that they are untouchable as a way to sell their product/service. Put 'em in the octogon, and let 'em prove it. I think MMA has helped bring a LITTLE humility to insane TMAists. A little.

But I suppose there will always be those internet warriors who feel that their TMA is too deadly for the ring...

[lkfmdc]

you guys think the sport that is second only to the NFL is "over"? :confused:

it is bigger than NASCAR

[TenTigers]

Let's face it:
Physical arts that have a hierarchical colored belt ranking system, that intentionally integrate lessons on character development and all that jazz are deemed more valuable to society, that people with disposable income could see their families getting involved with for the long term...
vs.
Physical arts that actually train you to be able to fight, which requires lots of full contact, and getting clocked.


Good Point. But, (not to change the subject) I don't see any reason why you cannot have both? Difficult, but not impossible.

[yutyeesam]

Good Point. But, (not to change the subject) I don't see any reason why you cannot have both? Difficult, but not impossible.

Totally agree that you can (and should) have both. My feeling is that the initial point of entry might be more appealing with the emphasis on the first part?

[Kansuke]

It seems that MMA's starting to feel like it's no longer mainstream and starting to get... well -- old.



Seems like you want that to be the case.

[Mr Punch]

... is undoubtedly the answer. It's huge.


that, and the fact that it scores as one of the highest percentages of injuries...I think rugby's still the highest, which is still a popular sport worldwide with no signs of getting less so, and has an audience including a lot of young women too. And talking of women, thought not technically a sport, the activity in the sporting world that has the most injuries (and fatalities) outright is cheerleading. Also pretty popular!


you guys think the sport that is second only to the NFL is "over"? :confused:In your country, maybe. In the world the most popular spectator sport is cricket, hands down. Pretty much everyone in India guarantees that.


Seems like you want that to be the case.
Who cares?!

[diego]

It seems that MMA's starting to feel like it's no longer mainstream and starting to get... well -- old. The brand seems to be in trouble- too many embarrassing fights, too many sham promoters, too many McMMA dojos - it's no longer new or exciting, and the crowd - well you all know the crowd. And long gone are the days of Rolls exclaiming that Royce is going to choke all of us out on the kfm forum.

Is it done and what's next? I say it's about time. MMA did change MA for the better. It reintroduced the ground game, fitness, and cross training. It reinvigorated the martial arts and challenged the a lot of preconceived notions. And it did help to weed out the BS.

In light of all this - how's KF going to make it's dramatic comeback as the king of all that is martial?

for the masses all the mma craze did which is great was bring realistic self defense training to the ymca...it's gonna go back to a mix of 80's cardio with TKD splits kicking van damme style...chicks ain't big on mma so fat kids ain't gonna be doing elbow defense drills to lose their gut.

the next big thing is olympic online streetfighting with NATAL controllerless technology...look it up



It's safe to assume we all prefer a standard controller, thought I'd get that out before anything, I know there are many antagonistic poster on y2. Onto the specs.

- Detects Facial recognition and Emotion
- Detects Voice recognition
- Detects 3D space (unlike the wiimote)
- Able to detect 4 players individually for local multiplayer
- No killer app announced yet (I suspect RARE is working on this)
- Detects objects and can paste them on screen
- Compatible with all 360's (guess it doesn't need to install anything [arcade units], considering Windows Speech recognition server is 1.7gigs)
- Is streamlined onto the 360 dashboard (safe to assume you can use it system wide)

Here is a video clip of it from last year, before Microsoft picked up the technology.

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/k_V2AFaerKo.swf

This is a promotional video clip, displays most of the technologies features.

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/oACt9R9z37U.swf

Project Miro, something P.M worked on for the past few months. This clip shows what a real developer can do with some effort.

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/M9nuwsQ5nF4.swf

Paint application tech demo

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/ie02k3eAvxY.swf

Some select few journalists were invited to actually try the technology, IGN was the first up.

The camera is not just about 1:1 motion control, we were shown just that one possibility of this tech - check out what the camera picks up in 3D using it's scanner, in real time.

http://i41.tinypic.com/10qxf89.jpg

---

What do you guys think? As mentioned before I still prefer a standard controller for the standard games but I'm excited for this. From what I've seen & read, I'm convinced this works as unveiled at e3. It's true motion technology without the need of a waggle stick - though Microsoft can easily introduce one. I like how the camera fluidly & accurately picks up body movement. Fingers, hands, legs, head, color, distance, shapes, objects, gestures and emotions - it looks like it picks it all up. Rare was absent from this e3, I'm 100% they're the studio that's working on the killer app that will launch with this camera.

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/AscJO0uUQ_Q.swf

Boxer Sugar Ray Leonard with Project Natal

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/i-443dE5-gk.swf

[diego]

you guys think the sport that is second only to the NFL is "over"? :confused:

it is bigger than NASCAR

how many race car drivers are out there?...oh wait laughs at the old guy in the vette trying to get college chicks who moonlight as strippers...

besides street kids and jocks i don't see mma getting too too big you know...now tkd nerds look cool doing that...:)

[MightyB]

you guys think the sport that is second only to the NFL is "over"? :confused:

it is bigger than NASCAR

Actually- that's one that is also in decline: http://www.scenedaily.com/news/articles/print/Whats_behind_the_decline_in_NASCARs_TV_ratings.htm l

Living minutes away from Michigan International Speedway - and managing a marketing and entertainment company... well, let's just say that the NASCAR numbers are down and have been for quite some time. It is somewhat of a problem for our local economy. Just not enough mullet heads and soccer mom redneck wannabees anymore.

[TenTigers]

that's what MMA needs-good sponsorship. Get a company like Skoal to pick you up and you will get all the NASCAR fans into MMA.

[lkfmdc]

I know most here are kung fu nerds so I'll start with the most obvious example, MMA is getting big IN CHINA :eek:

There are like 5 or 10 people over there you know, they could have a fan base ;)

The UFC shows in Great Britain have been all sold out, and they have a local league that is very successful

"RINGS" and similar MMA leagues are still very active in Holland

Like I said, in the US it is the second largest sport only next to the NFL

And, hate him or not, when Tiger Shulmann changes his name to TSMMA you can be darn sure that it's a sign

[MightyB]

I don't doubt that it will always be around. I just think the "craze" is gone. And, just like NASCAR - it's ratings are in decline. I think they could fix that by: having a unifying body or governing organization. Stop with the reality show tie-ins (They're disgraceful to the sport). Develop a real farm system similar to how boxing does it with the golden gloves and AAU. Have a star that people can believe in and relate to. NASCAR's success came by attracting the 35 yr plus women crowd. That's the real target demo for success. Guy's 18 - 35 are always being pushed - that's really a "joke" crowd considering that Nascar didn't hit it big until it attracted mainstream soccer moms. MMA isn't going to do that because it can't. TMA can. Others listed the obvious reasons why. The question is, how are people (TMA instructors) using this information to their advantage?

[TenTigers]

No, I agree. It's far from over.
Oshkosh B'Gosh just came out with a line of Affliction rompers.

[MasterKiller]

that's really a "joke" crowd considering that Nascar didn't hit it big until it attracted mainstream soccer moms. MMA isn't going to do that because it can't. TMA can. Others listed the obvious reasons why. The question is, how are people (TMA instructors) using this information to their advantage? I don't know about you, but I don't want to rely on soccer moms to keep my doors open. :rolleyes:

[MightyB]

The sport isn't. It will always be around like tattoo parlors. Slightly unsavory, a little disreputable, but always cool.

But the newness has worn off. It's an aging brand. Look at BJJ. It lost out to MMA. It's still there, it's still cool, but it's not the BJJ of 1994 - 2000. MMA is following a similar pattern and it's going to eventually end up as the lead in for celebrity poker tourneys on ESPN 4.

Plus - it's boring TV. I think San Da has more TV appeal. Skilled striking with bad@ss takedowns... isn't that what Dana White has been pushing behind the scenes with striking and KO bonuses?

Also- TCMA has a back door tie in with San Da. It's actually better for us Kung Fu-ers for marketing and branding and as a product offering that goes with TCMA.

[MasterKiller]

Plus - it's boring TV. I think San Da has more TV appeal. Skilled striking with bad@ss takedowns... isn't that what Dana White has been pushing behind the scenes with striking and KO bonuses

Also- TCMA has a back door tie in with San Da. It's actually better for us Kung Fu-ers for marketing and branding and as a product offering that goes with TCMA.
Kickboxing as a spectator sport in America is deader than soccer. Get over it.

[Jimbo]

I don't feel the craze is over at all. It's further establishing itself in the U.S. mainstream, if anything. It's eclipsed pro boxing, which has definitely lost a lot (most of?) the public limelight it once enjoyed. The difference is that MMA is no longer seen as the odd spectacle it may have been seen as when the sport first began. In terms of who actually wants to become a professional fighter, that will always be limited to young men (and a few women); but there are huge numbers of people who train in it who will never compete as pros. There are large MMA gyms and franchises. But also a lot of regular MA schools have jumped on the bandwagon and offer some type of MMA classes, similar to several years ago when MA schools jumped on the cardio-kickboxing craze. Of course, there will come a time when there are no longer a dozen (it seems) or more magazines on the newsstand dedicated to MMA. But IMO it's yet to reach its peak.

And sure, the novelty of BJJ may have worn off, but it still seems to be one of the most popular, sought-out MAs, and rightfully so. After any MA has its special craze period, it either will become firmly established or mostly fade away from the limelight. BJJ is now firmly established and is not going away.

[Pork Chop]

I think the craze is over when Affliction drops the price of their shirts and people are embarrassed to be seen wearing them at the club, that hasn't happened yet.

[golden arhat]

I think the craze is over when Affliction drops the price of their shirts and people are embarrassed to be seen wearing them at the club, that hasn't happened yet.

affliction is a DISGUSTING brand. i cant see why anyone would wear it.

MMA will never die out it may level off but people will always want to see someone get their ass kicked in the most brutal way possible.
people get tired of combat with big gloved and rules etc, MMA may reach a point when peoople start to tire
but then it will loosen up the rules introduce roup matches etc
the basic human truth of it is that people love fighting. and MMA is currently the most unrestrained form of professional fighting around.

its the reason pro football (american) does so well

because its a bunch of people representing your town!! (yay) basically fighting a group of people from another town! (boo) with a ball in their as an excuse basically to make it OK and a few rules but its appeal is basically that people can relate to wanting to kick the **** out of someone and being proud of where they are from

MMA just needs to incorporate town spirit and the need to support a group into the sport and the social element of baseball (going to the arena with your mates etc having a few beers, it needs to move away from the PPV focus and into the merchandising and group involvment of course PPV will always have a place
especcially for big matches)

mma is more than likelye going to do even better
but there is a chance it could do worse.

[Pork Chop]

They tried the group idea here with the IFL and it never took off.

American Football's successful because it's a mini war played out in around an hour, complete with pretty advanced tactics, strategists, and leaders.

The American public likes a good brawl and likes excitement.
Glove size really has very little to do with it, a good brawl in boxing still captures plenty of excitement - the Diaz/Marquez fight practically gave both fighters a lot of exposure overnight & few athletes garner the following that Pacquiao does.

Boxers still make a lot more money than mma folks.
Kermit Cintron was considering the jump to mma a few years back, but never did, apparently the 200k he's making as a non-main event light middleweight makes mma money look like a joke.

MMA can have boring fights too, just ask Kaleb Starnes.

I think bareknuckle Burmese Leitwei would actually do much better in the US than mma; if it ever got sanctioned here.

[Knifefighter]

The sport will stay around because it has spectator appeal.

The actual training is probably starting to fade among the people who participate for other than professional reasons, mainly because the training is too tough for most people.

The average joe who wants to feel tough without having to work too hard will go back to kung fu and TKD.

[MightyB]

The sport will stay around because it has spectator appeal.

The actual training is probably starting to fade among the people who participate for other than professional reasons, mainly because the training is too tough for most people.

The average joe who wants to feel tough without having to work too hard will go back to kung fu and TKD.

Yeah baby- that's what I'm talking about... or-
you could look at it as - The legit TMA schools realized they had to step it up a notch and the average Joe could go back to a TMA school and get the training that they desired and craved in the first place.

Not every kwoon is filled with chi blasting talk monkeys- some are actually quite good.

[Mr Punch]

The actual training is probably starting to fade among the people who participate for other than professional reasons, mainly because the training is too tough for most people...Dunno. I stopped because of injury, but one of the reasons I liked MMA classes was because they gave me an ideal way of testing out my kung fu, which sadly none of my kung fu training partners were into.

Plus there were a fair few people there who seemed to just enjoy it. Don't know how many have continued though.

I could well be a minority though.

BTW, this thread is hilarious.

Mighty B: Is the MMA craze finally over?
KFM: NO!
MB: The MMA craze is finally over.
KFM: No... because A... Z.
MB: The MMA craze is finally over.
KFM: Er, no.

ad infinitum.

Gotta admire the boy's tenacity! :D

[kwaichang]

I boxed when I was young I kick boxed with the PKA pro and amateur you knjow 8 kicksand all that stuff. At the time it was the new thing much like MMA is now. Then Mu Thai then MMA etc etc. All things of this type have a life span. These steroid laden fighters are a very small percentage of MA. Most do not want to end up with a brain injury or lifetime orthopedic injury or a blood clot from excess contact or dead. The next level will be death matches look at Rome. One does not have to participate in a MMA "sport" to learn to defend oneself. That is rediculous and dont give me this BS about realistic training otherwise TMA would have been gone long before the MMA craze came about. And to think that cross training came about with MMA is crazy and a joke as well. Research cross trainng and see what you find. Most of what you see is sport specificity it isnt fighting it is a sport. KC

[golden arhat]

These steroid laden fighters are a very small percentage of MA. there is standard drug testing in MMA, dont be an idiot.




One does not have to participate in a MMA "sport" to learn to defend oneself. That is rediculous and dont give me this BS about realistic training otherwise TMA would have been gone long before the MMA craze came about. And to think that cross training came about with MMA is crazy and a joke as well. Research cross trainng and see what you find. Most of what you see is sport specificity it isnt fighting it is a sport. KC

no i guess fighting against resisting opponents with proven techniques on the regular has nothing to do with defending yourself. and silly me being physically fit and muscular with the physical power to defend yourself isnt actually "necessary"
you cna take on at least 4 guys by yourself as a skinny guy who knows some forms :rolleyes:

[SPJ]

I work near a MMA gym.

Just saw them practicing punching elbowing, kneeing the pads with partner.

so not entirely tumbling on the ground all the time.

--

attendance is still good.

so

I dunno if MMA is on the way out or not?

:confused:

[kwaichang]

OOPS sorry its called nutrients or HGH or what ever those guys dont get that way "most of them" without some sort of supplementation te he. Whatever. KC

[golden arhat]

OOPS sorry its called nutrients or HGH or what ever those guys dont get that way "most of them" without some sort of supplementation te he. Whatever. KC

i take protein supplements. so what?


HGH is testosterone and is tested for because it is an "ANABOLIC STEROID"
do you have a brain

this guy is such a loser

[Pork Chop]

HGH is testosterone and is tested for because it is an "ANABOLIC STEROID"
do you have a brain


err
HGH is human growth hormone, it's not testosterone
it can/could not be tested for in a typical urine test, so the ban on HGH was not enforceable until relatively recently when they found out how to test for it via a blood test.
Sly Stallone has admitted to HGH usage, calling it a fountain of youth.
Who else do we know that seems to have found a fountain of youth? *wink*wink*nudge*nudge*
HGH also tends to cause bone growth, especially in the skull and jaw - as well as organ growth, hence the term "HGH belly".
Barry Bonds and Tito Ortiz are often accused of having used HGH due to the changes in their bone structures over the years.

All that aside, anybody popped in a steroid test is really just uneducated. There are sooooo many masking agents and methods for hiding steroid use. Athletes at the highest levels have doctors who are up to date on these methods.

Brock Lesner was already popped in suspicion for importing steroids. The charges were dropped, but if you think his size & physique are natural, you're really kidding yourself.


EDIT: to be fair and balanced, Thai kickboxer Yodsanklai was recently popped for steroids when he was tested for a competition in France. It's not as rare as you'd think.

[golden arhat]

err
HGH is human growth hormone, it's not testosterone
it can/could not be tested for in a typical urine test, so the ban on HGH was not enforceable until relatively recently when they found out how to test for it via a blood test.
Sly Stallone has admitted to HGH usage, calling it a fountain of youth.
Who else do we know that seems to have found a fountain of youth? *wink*wink*nudge*nudge*
HGH also tends to cause bone growth, especially in the skull and jaw - as well as organ growth, hence the term "HGH belly".
Barry Bonds and Tito Ortiz are often accused of having used HGH due to the changes in their bone structures over the years.

All that aside, anybody popped in a steroid test is really just uneducated. There are sooooo many masking agents and methods for hiding steroid use. Athletes at the highest levels have doctors who are up to date on these methods.

Brock Lesner was already popped in suspicion for importing steroids. The charges were dropped, but if you think his size & physique are natural, you're really kidding yourself.


EDIT: to be fair and balanced, Thai kickboxer Yodsanklai was recently popped for steroids when he was tested for a competition in France. It's not as rare as you'd think.

what stimulates growth in humans if not testosterone?

[kwaichang]

Thanks Pork Chop, and yes I do have a brain I have trained with competitive body builders in the past and am fairly up to date on most of this stuff, working in the medical field and all. You may appologize any time now Arhat. BTW there are many precursors to testosterone and that is not the only hormone that promotes muscle and bone growth. KC

[MightyB]

Dunno. I stopped because of injury, but one of the reasons I liked MMA classes was because they gave me an ideal way of testing out my kung fu, which sadly none of my kung fu training partners were into.

Plus there were a fair few people there who seemed to just enjoy it. Don't know how many have continued though.

I could well be a minority though.

BTW, this thread is hilarious.

Mighty B: Is the MMA craze finally over?
KFM: NO!
MB: The MMA craze is finally over.
KFM: No... because A... Z.
MB: The MMA craze is finally over.
KFM: Er, no.

ad infinitum.

Gotta admire the boy's tenacity! :D

Hey- the boards have been a little sterile lately (with the exception of ILK's dislike of Carradine). Just adding some chi to the place.

Then again your summation is based on a one sided point of view that's obviously pro MMA.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Performance enhancing drugs are commonplace in pro sports, this is old news.
HGH is not a steriod, as was mentioned already and at one point it wasn't illegal in many sports, not sure about the rules regarding it now.
The Pro level of ANY sport shoudl not be compared to the recreational level of said sports, that's just silly, no one compares the riders of the Tour De france with guys that go out cycling on the weekend.

[Mr Punch]

Hey- the boards have been a little sterile lately (with the exception of ILK's dislike of Carradine). Just adding some chi to the place.

Then again your summation is based on a one sided point of view that's obviously pro MMA.Nah, when I posted that it was something like 1 and 2 votes for 'Yes' and 'Maybe so' which meant fairly decisive win for the 'No's!

Plus, I'm not pro anything... I've done TMA more than MMA, I like both and I don't really see much competition.

Plus, I'm just pulling your chain ya big girl's blouse! At least the thread's relevant to the board: nice one!

[MightyB]

Plus, I'm just pulling your chain ya big girl's blouse!

BIG GIRL'S BLOUSE!?!?!? ... hmmm, I guess I do like the b00bies- yeah, b00bies...

[bawang]

there is standard drug testing in MMA, dont be an idiot.


tito ortiz's jaw is now 3 times bigger than when he was in the ultimate fighter reality show


to tell the truth i liked watching ufc because it was dangerous illegal and super duper badass, now its pretty boring

[TenTigers]

These guys just opened up shop near me. So much for speculation.

http://8thdegreeblack.com/

[tattooedmonk]

........But I think the days of one art being dominate in the ring has changed and will continue to do so. MMA does not just mean BJJ and MT or Boxing and wrestling anymore ,other arts are now showing they have what it takes to compete. The days of it being geared towards groundfighting/ grappling are over , thanks to fans , rule changes, better standup fighter , etc.

[Siu Lum Fighter]

I'm so glad Machida showed his Shotokan Karate / BJJ formula to be able to stand up to all of the "standard" MMA formulas (BJJ, wrestling, boxing, Muay Thai). If Shotokan of all styles can stand up to boxing and wrestling then any style can.

[Mr Punch]

These guys just opened up shop near me. So much for speculation.

http://8thdegreeblack.com/Holy ****. Those are some of the most cluttered, most meaningless, most confused and generally all-round worst designs I've ever seen.

[Lucas]

Holy ****. Those are some of the most cluttered, most meaningless, most confused and generally all-round worst designs I've ever seen.

not to mention all 3 cultures they are trying to represent....look almost exactly the same, design wise, on every shirt.

[TenTigers]

Holy ****. Those are some of the most cluttered, most meaningless, most confused and generally all-round worst designs I've ever seen.

well, considering their target audience, kinda apropo, wouldn't you agree?