Chi Gerk-Whats the purpose

[Yoshiyahu]

What is the purpose of Chi Gerk and where exactly does it come from..In other words who invented Chi Gerk.

Also what skills does one acquire from Chi gerk practice and how does this translate into real fighting? Can chi gerk conditioned you enough to take a Muay Thai fighters kick? Does Chi Gerk give you sensitivity too allow you ward off a BJJ take down attempt?


Please share your opinion?

I am not bias but I do not want long drawn out answers about chi-vectors of inertia force-and some pseudo-scientific philospoical answer...Please keep it fight worthy!

[Mr Punch]

Dunno who invented it or where it comes from but I like it and find it very useful. My sihing hates it and thinks it's useless. Each to their own!

1) Improves balance esp under pressure.

2) Builds muscle esp in the crease of the thigh.

3) Gets you used to useful angles and transitions in tan gerk and bong gerk and when it's safe to try to deflect or when you should relying on moving out of the way solely.

4) Helps you develop and understand sticking with the knees, and finding openings instinctively.

5) Helps you with reading your opponent's balance and knowing when and how to hang your weight on his frame and what reaction that will cause.

6) Excellent for avoiding and improving any sweeps, stamps, low kicks etc, and thus useful for grappling: turning takedowns to your advantage and giving you an extra split second before you go down to read their balance etc.

7) Gives you help reading when and where sweeps, low kicks, leg based takedowns, trips etc are coming from in the clinch.


Can chi gerk conditioned you enough to take a Muay Thai fighters kick? No. Not at all.


Does Chi Gerk give you sensitivity too allow you ward off a BJJ take down attempt?
No, but it can help. See points 6 and 7 above (suppose they're pretty much the same).

Cheers.

[Yoshiyahu]

Wounderful explanation...I rather enjoyed it. I guess others think Chi Gerk is pretty useless to since No one has commented but you...ha ha...



Dunno who invented it or where it comes from but I like it and find it very useful. My sihing hates it and thinks it's useless. Each to their own!

1) Improves balance esp under pressure.

2) Builds muscle esp in the crease of the thigh.

3) Gets you used to useful angles and transitions in tan gerk and bong gerk and when it's safe to try to deflect or when you should relying on moving out of the way solely.

4) Helps you develop and understand sticking with the knees, and finding openings instinctively.

5) Helps you with reading your opponent's balance and knowing when and how to hang your weight on his frame and what reaction that will cause.

6) Excellent for avoiding and improving any sweeps, stamps, low kicks etc, and thus useful for grappling: turning takedowns to your advantage and giving you an extra split second before you go down to read their balance etc.

7) Gives you help reading when and where sweeps, low kicks, leg based takedowns, trips etc are coming from in the clinch.

No. Not at all.

No, but it can help. See points 6 and 7 above (suppose they're pretty much the same).

Cheers.

[chusauli]

Actually, good freestyle Chi Gerk is a lot like Judo and Muay Thai, but with a lot more illegal moves than both of these sports would use.

Some great ones are step on the instep and knee butt to the thigh, kick sweeping the achille's tendon, dropping kneeling to the top of the patella, inside hooking then knee to inside of thigh, kneeling strike to head of fibula, step in between opponent's legs and Bik Ma, etc...

At freestyle Chi Gerk, it can be quite realistic, rather than a "you do this, and I do that" cooperative drill. Afterwards, combining that with the hands, and you've got a realistic close quarters drill.

[Yoshiyahu]

Great insight...you guys have alot of knowledge in these areas?



Actually, good freestyle Chi Gerk is a lot like Judo and Muay Thai, but with a lot more illegal moves than both of these sports would use.

Some great ones are step on the instep and knee butt to the thigh, kick sweeping the achille's tendon, dropping kneeling to the top of the patella, inside hooking then knee to inside of thigh, kneeling strike to head of fibula, step in between opponent's legs and Bik Ma, etc...

At freestyle Chi Gerk, it can be quite realistic, rather than a "you do this, and I do that" cooperative drill. Afterwards, combining that with the hands, and you've got a realistic close quarters drill.

[Vajramusti]

Scrape shin, visit family and show how Buddha's attendant can really pound mortar.
Some borrowed terminology but-oh well!You gotta know when to hold em, you gotta know when to fold them... know when to walk away,,, know when to run---oh gee I cant outdo Hendrik's songs

joy chaudhuri

[Mr Punch]

Wounderful explanation...I rather enjoyed it.Thanks. Glad I'm entertaining! :D


I guess others think Chi Gerk is pretty useless to since No one has commented but you...ha ha...NMP.


Great insight...you guys have alot of knowledge in these areas?Every time I meet a new chunner or anyone from any striking art they spend the first couple of sessions wondering how I am controlling them, uprooting them, tripping and tangling them at will when they don't really see/feel anything much going on. Many people have commented on it so I suppose I'm quite good at it. :)

However, after a couple of sessions people get wise to it and learn to keep their distance.

It's a limited skill set. It isn't anything magical but it's handy to add to your clinch skills. Against others who like low kicks, it can be useful for tangling them up, tripping, deflecting and kicking through their kicks by cutting the angles.

Against grapplers it can help tie them up and help avoiding sweeps etc, and if you're tangled up you can get out of it easier thus have more control over when you're going down. BUT, if you try to tangle them up with overemphasis on fancy knee pressure BS (concentrate too much on it... chasing legs? :D ), you'll be playing them at their own game and you're going down hard and fast.

With grapplers in the clinch you're safer with the staples of keeping your hips sunk and your legs back and keeping your knee strikes going in, or keeping in close, driving them back and getting your hips under them. In the first instance chi gerk is useless. And in the second case it's limited to small sweeps and knee strikes to their legs to readjust their balance to your advantage (like the practical application of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4z78ti0XIVM) judo exercise or the knee strike to the inside of the thigh posted by Dave Ross on one of his San Da clips on the main forum).

[Mr Punch]

Actually, good freestyle Chi Gerk is a lot like Judo and Muay Thai, but with a lot more illegal moves than both of these sports would use.

Some great ones are step on the instep and knee butt to the thigh, kick sweeping the achille's tendon, dropping kneeling to the top of the patella, inside hooking then knee to inside of thigh, kneeling strike to head of fibula, step in between opponent's legs and Bik Ma, etc...

At freestyle Chi Gerk, it can be quite realistic, rather than a "you do this, and I do that" cooperative drill. Afterwards, combining that with the hands, and you've got a realistic close quarters drill.Generally agreed. I find the foot stamp to be largely fantasy, mind: too hard to nail a fast-moving foot, and too easy for them to just jerk it out and get the advantage. Also I'm not so much into specific strikes like the 'dropping kneeling to the top of the patella' (if I'm understanding that one right) for the same reason - accuracy at full speed, and because in general for me it's about principles not techniques.

Principles being: forward leg movement with knee control, backwards with the heel, if contact is useful keep pressure to their rough knee area (slightly above is better - but again don't go for specific points as that will lead to chasing legs), only keep contact until there's a clear shot (knee to nuts, knee to inner thigh, stamp to post leg, shin/knee to outer thigh etc) then if you can still keep it it's a bonus, but otherwise just take the shot... etc.

[Knifefighter]

Is this what you are talking about?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xti9Bcn6wLI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Q***CGZ-lo&feature=related

If so, you must be joking, right?

[Vajramusti]

Is this what you are talking about?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xti9Bcn6wLI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Q***CGZ-lo&feature=related

If so, you must be joking, right?

-------
answer:nope

[Mr Punch]

Couldn't see the second one... the first I'm with Joy.

That would be almost exactly the way I'd do it if I was demonstrating what chi gerk wasn't! :D

[Edmund]

And in the second case it's limited to small sweeps and knee strikes to their legs to readjust their balance to your advantage (like the practical application of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4z78ti0XIVM) judo exercise

De ashi barai.

I'm not too bad at it. It's a practical foot sweep.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvWmNeSzs_Q&feature=related

There's a bit of difference between this and how most people do chi gerk. You are trying to sweep. You don't start from sticking leg to leg.

[CFT]

Couldn't see the second one... the first I'm with Joy.

That would be almost exactly the way I'd do it if I was demonstrating what chi gerk wasn't! :DBloomin' censorship filter!

Replace the 3 '*' chars with "f", "a", "G".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Q***CGZ-lo&feature=related

[Mr Punch]

Bloomin' censorship filter!

Replace the 3 '*' chars with "f", "a", "G".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Q***CGZ-lo&feature=relatedBut of course!

That was bull**** too: maybe as bad as the first.


De ashi barai.

I'm not too bad at it. It's a practical foot sweep.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvWmNeSzs_Q&feature=related

There's a bit of difference between this and how most people do chi gerk. You are trying to sweep. You don't start from sticking leg to leg.The basic drill for ashi barai is a set pattern, like the starting drills in chi gerk. As soon as your used to that, you start more free drilling and certainly not necessarily from sticking to start with. And as I said before, with mats chi gerk becomes full on sweeps, trips and stamps. In my school we use huen bo very much in the same way: it's a low crescent kick or a sweep. If it's a sweep it finishes up pretty much as high as in judo harai waza. Since chi gerk is incorporated into chi sao, of course the arms are also being used for what in judo would be kuzushi: not the arms or the legs only, but the body position and footwork altogether.

And like I said, it isn't a substitute or a match for grappling, but of the WC skill sets it's a pretty useful one to have against grapplers, providing they're not too proficient! :D And more importantly it gives chun the edge over other predominately stand-up striking styles. When I've trained against kyokushin the combination of taking their space and the legwork has worked well... and the few times I've trained with competent Thai guys (though not so much with the Thai - not sure why). Even against goju ryu, who have a really strong base, it works a treat: they're just not used to people 'manipulating' their knees like that.

[chusauli]

Chi Gerk is a practical drill and a freestyle one at latter stages. It does not look like the recent youtube posts.

It looks like low, close range fighting. "Every step is a kick, every kick is a step" is the essence of it. It is training every contact point of the legs to become a weapon, strike with shin, instep, foot, hip, thigh, butt, pinpoint targets, off balance, close off, trap, sweep, throw, disrupt, press, etc.

Looks more like playing pinball with the legs.

[Yoshiyahu]

Couldn't see the second one... the first I'm with Joy.

That would be almost exactly the way I'd do it if I was demonstrating what chi gerk wasn't! :D

Mr. Punch the idea of using your knees against grappler is kinda detrimental if you asked me...I mean If I trying throw you or take you down I would love for you to throw a knee. I would try to cover it with my chest and use your body weight against you. An leverage you down. Then travel for the dominant posistion!

[Edmund]

The basic drill for ashi barai is a set pattern, like the starting drills in chi gerk.

As soon as your used to that, you start more free drilling and certainly not necessarily from sticking to start with. And as I said before, with mats chi gerk becomes full on sweeps, trips and stamps.


Therefore starting drills for chi gerk are as good as starting drills for ashi barai?
That logic doesn't quite follow. There's no movement which is the most important part of foot sweeps.

You've named a few good applications like sweeps and kicks. IMO they are practical and useful. However there's not much about chi gerk that leads to doing those applications.

It's easy to say that freestyle chi gerk is full of kicking people's legs out. But the *non-freestyle* version is so completely different that it's no help at all. The same cannot be said for the ashi barai & okuri ashi barai drills: those are similar in movement to real sweeps but without actually completing the throw.

[Mr Punch]

Mr. Punch the idea of using your knees against grappler is kinda detrimental if you asked me...I mean If I trying throw you or take you down I would love for you to throw a knee. I would try to cover it with my chest and use your body weight against you. An leverage you down. Then travel for the dominant posistion!I'm not talking about that old bull**** 'They come in for the double/single leg and I just knee them in the face'... I'm talking about kneeing their inside/outside thigh in the clinch. It's a staple move. You can use it just to attack their leg (wear it down or lead to a sweep) or to get them to adjust their balance to the leg that's not under attack, in which case you have an opening for a takedown.

[Mr Punch]

It's easy to say that freestyle chi gerk is full of kicking people's legs out. But the *non-freestyle* version is so completely different that it's no help at all. Fair enough. I can't show you, so we'll just have to differ.

[Yoshiyahu]

I'm not talking about that old bull**** 'They come in for the double/single leg and I just knee them in the face'... I'm talking about kneeing their inside/outside thigh in the clinch. It's a staple move. You can use it just to attack their leg (wear it down or lead to a sweep) or to get them to adjust their balance to the leg that's not under attack, in which case you have an opening for a takedown.

Oh i thought you might have a dreamy statement thats unpractical for a second...thanks for clairfying....I guess I have to see it or experience it to understand what you mean!