the kung fu of juggling

[uki]

the art of juggling is by far one of the most multi-layered activities anyone on the physical realm can invest their time and energy into - but hey, don't take my word for it. :p

http://www.juggling.org/papers/science-1/

http://www.jumpusa.com/juggling.html

http://www.juggling.org/papers/history-2/

http://www.juggleplay.com/jugglehistory.html

http://www.neuromuscularjunction.net/jugglingtherapy.html

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1431370/benefits_of_juggling.html?cat=50

http://www.juggling.org/jw/86/1/health.html

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/808083/exercise_both_brain_body_with_juggling.html?cat=5

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/5615.php

http://www.icanjuggle.com/academic.html

http://www.rosstraining.com/articles/juggleyourway.html

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/05/24/pl.juggling/

http://www.philanthropicentrepreneur.com/Benefits%20of%20Juggling.htm

obviously there is really no need to pursue any second opinions on the reasons why and how juggling improves ones martial arts techniques.

it would be nice to do a study on winning martial artists in competitions from all styles and compare to wether or not they know how to juggle or not and how often they do so...

it's true... juggling will make you a better fighter(and at everything else you do)... period. :)

[MasterKiller]

You know what else improves your ability to fight? Training to fight.

[uki]

You know what else improves your ability to fight? Training to fight.you see, it's just this narrow-minded approach to the martial arts that is the root of all these discrepancies today. you obviously are lacking the vision. nothing personal of course... it's just the way the cookie crumbles. :)

[MasterKiller]

you see, it's just this narrow-minded approach to the martial arts that is the root of all these discrepancies today. you obviously are lacking the vision. nothing personal of course... it's just the way the cookie crumbles. :)

Juggling might make you a better fighter. A better fighter than what is the real question...

[uki]

No, the root of the discrepancies stems from people promoting non-activity-specific training practices who are themselves unable to prove any proficiency in the activity in question. what's to prove? if you want to see if i can tear your throat out with some tiger claw techniques, by all means, please feel free to stop by and threaten my family with some physical harm. :)


You're right. Juggling might make you a better fighter. A better fighter than what is the real question...this is where i like to grab the arguement by the throat... why are you so concerned with someones fighting abilities? is it a sign of personal insecurity or something? it goes for everyone who gets defensive when some alternate form or style comes along... defense mechanism clicks in - you've got a business to protect or some other excuse to cling to... obviously your manifestation of arrogance doubts someone elses ability to fight, while at the same time you attack it as if to retain the dominate postion... i am simply here to bring, to the table of the martial arts, another form of training that one can incorporate into their practice.

*meow*

:D

[MightyB]

No, the root of the discrepancies stems from people promoting non-activity-specific training practices who are themselves unable to prove any proficiency in the activity in question.

You're right. Juggling might make you a better fighter. A better fighter than what is the real question...

MK - this is where you show yourself to be a real douche bag. In Judo, I've had the opportunity to train with some pretty tough competitors from Russia and Germany. I asked them a little about what training there was like as compared to here. One thing the Russian said is that Judo training in Russia is very regimented and hard. It's 6 days a week, and (wait for it) they spend at least one day a week doing some non Judo activity to help their Judo. Usually it's Soccer, sometimes it's basketball, sometimes it's swimming. It's seen as essential because it compliments the Judo training.

(hums) Free your mind - the rest will follow... be color blind - don't be so shallow...

[David Jamieson]

how did you come to the conclusion that juggling will make you a better fighter?

I can see how it develops eye hand coordination. i can see how it can develop focus.

but isn't that akin to saying that any of the supportive exercises and development associated makes you a better fighter?

While all these attributes can be developed to the nth degree, I have to agree with MK that the only way to become a better fighter is through the task specific act of actually fighting.

the prototype is not teh production model, the architect is not the builder, and so on.

I don't think he's obsessed with fighting so much as he is taking contention with your statement :
it's true... juggling will make you a better fighter(and at everything else you do)... period.

That's like saying lifting weights will make you a better fighter... no it won't, it will make you stronger, but you still have to fight to understand fighting.

I would have approached it from a development strategy aimed at refining certain attributes that will contribute to your cultivation as a fighter, but to make the direct lineal association is a bit off.

[MightyB]

That's like saying lifting weights will make you a better fighter... no it won't, it will make you stronger.

Hey Dave - STRENGTH TRAINING WILL MAKE YOU A BETTER FIGHTER.

There - I said it.

[MasterKiller]

MK - this is where you show yourself to be a real douche bag. In Judo, I've had the opportunity to train with some pretty tough competitors from Russia and Germany. I asked them a little about what training there was like as compared to here. One thing the Russian said is that Judo training in Russia is very regimented and hard. It's 6 days a week, and (wait for it) they spend at least one day a week doing some non Judo activity to help their Judo. Usually it's Soccer, sometimes it's basketball, sometimes it's swimming. It's seen as essential because it compliments the Judo training. How often does your Judo club take off to go swimming?


(hums) Free your mind - the rest will follow... be color blind - don't be so shallow... Go eat some granola. Hippy.

[MightyB]

How often does your Judo club take off to go swimming?

Go eat some granola. Hippy.

"Douche Bag" was a little excessive - I don't mean you are a douche - just that, in this case, you're displaying douche like tendencies :p

My Judo club doesn't train like the Russians. I wish we could and did. The rest of the world eats, sleeps, and cr@ps, whatever it is that they do that they deem worth doing. I'd say we're less than part-timers here and that's why we don't do that well as a nation internationally in Judo.

But- if we did do a 4 to 6 hour a day 6 days a week regimen, I'm sure we'd go swimming or something. I'd prefer Rock climbing. Develops grip strength, requires concentration, and has a tremendous sense of accomplishment for when you do a challenging climb. All things that would help a person to be a better martial artist.

[WinterPalm]

You know what else improves your ability to fight? Training to fight.

Hersey!
Burn the heretic!

[MightyB]

Hersey!
Burn the heretic!

Another close minded douche like comment...

so many douches.

[MasterKiller]

"Douche Bag"
My Judo club doesn't train like the Russians. I wish we could and did. The rest of the world eats, sleeps, and cr@ps, whatever it is that they do that they deem worth doing. I'd say we're less than part-timers here and that's why we don't do that well as a nation internationally in Judo. But you said that swimming, basketball, etc.. was seen as essential to Judo. Why would you disregard essential training?

[uki]

so many douches.so little fresh water...


how did you come to the conclusion that juggling will make you a better fighter?every benefit gained from juggling is inter-dependently attributed to ones martial arts abilities. i am sure you are smart enough to apply all the benfits to the multiple aspects of martial arts and come to your own sound conclusions based entirely on sound logic and reason.

[Lucas]

I would have approached it from a development strategy aimed at refining certain attributes that will contribute to your cultivation as a fighter, but to make the direct lineal association is a bit off.

meh, semantics...

I think a lot of us understood that this is basically what he meant.

I mean thats like saying all you ever have to do is just spar and fight. No strenght training, no body conditioning, no cardio....

we all know we need all of these things to develop roundly as a fighter.

all uki was saying is that (even though you know this) juggling can be an additional form of training to work towards your goal of developing attributes that help you as a fighter.

to pick it apart just makes it look like no one can figure that part of his post out.

[uki]

to pick it apart just makes it look like no one can figure that part of his post out.it is confusing people nonetheless...

[David Jamieson]

Douches are used to clean out vaginas.

[uki]

Douches are used to clean out vaginas.the activity itself involves a medium of fresh water and vinegar. :)

[David Jamieson]

the activity itself involves a medium of fresh water and vinegar. :)

indeed and sometimes a very light scent of essential oil.

no patchouli though!! may as well rub rotten cabbage on that thing.

:D

[uki]

indeed and sometimes a very light scent of essential oil.i can picture evil girlfriends using fish liver oil... essence of the blowfish. :D

[Lucas]

indeed and sometimes a very light scent of essential oil.

no patchouli though!! may as well rub rotten cabbage on that thing.

:D

rofl

*these are not the words you are looking for*

[MightyB]

But you said that swimming, basketball, etc.. was seen as essential to Judo. Why would you disregard essential training?

I do all of those on my own, just like Uki juggles on his own. It's not a substitution for training - it's called complimenting your training. I also weight train, play racket ball, and bike. I stopped running, unless I'm chased, and play the heck out of hockey in the winter. These activities promote cardio, hand eye coordination, and competitiveness. I've been thinking about joining a triathlon training club also... because--- if you fight competitively, you realize that the biggest factor of success is "he who has the gas last, wins". This means both heart, and stamina. Most fighters gas out and give up within the first round.

[uki]

Most fighters gas out and give up within the first round.that's why you train to win in the first seconds. :D

[David Jamieson]

that's why you train to win in the first seconds. :D

yes, first you quickly distract them by juggling an iron ball.
then when they are sufficiently entranced, throw it at their head as hard as you can.

voila!

[MightyB]

that's why you train to win in the first seconds. :D
unfortunately that's easier said than done.

Heck - I don't train to fight anymore - I'm gett'n too old for that cr@p d@mmit - and I like it! Now I'm more interested in the holistic approach to life, although I still like to get in with the youngsters and have a go whenever I can. I just find myself on the losing end more often than not anymore... that's when I pull the ol' old card out ;)

[MasterKiller]

I do all of those on my own, just like Uki juggles on his own. It's not a substitution for training - it's called complimenting your training. I also weight train, play racket ball, and bike. I stopped running, unless I'm chased, and play the heck out of hockey in the winter. These activities promote cardio, hand eye coordination, and competitiveness. They also promote bad footwork, alignment, and balance. I mean, if certain complimentary attributes are expected to be carried over, then certain NON-complimentary attributes will also be carried over as well.


I've been thinking about joining a triathlon training club also... because---
if you fight competitively, you realize that the biggest factor of success is "he who has the gas last, wins". This means both heart, and stamina. Most fighters gas out and give up within the first round. Running a marathon doesn't train the same conditioning needed for a fight. In fact, it might make you a worse fighter.

I'm just wondering why every Judo club in America is neglecting taking students out of the dojo on a regular basis for these essential, complimentary training sessions. Does Judo in America care about being good?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Another close minded douche like comment...

so many douches.

Dude, seriously...very inappropriate.

[David Jamieson]

Dude, seriously...very inappropriate.

hard to find a good pic for that? :p

[Lucas]

i know a lot of judo practitioners also cross train in things like kendo, karate, as well as other sports.

i think it depends on how far removed the additional activities are from what your main focus goals are.

its a good point about the NON-complimentary attributes are concerned.

thats why swimming is so great. its just a body work out.

[Lucas]

hard to find a good pic for that? :p

hows this? (http://colbertsheroes.org/lolberts/noblet%20kegels.jpg)

[sanjuro_ronin]

They also promote bad footwork, alignment, and balance. I mean, if certain complimentary attributes are expected to be carried over, then certain NON-complimentary attributes will also be carried over as well.

Running a marathon doesn't train the same conditioning needed for a fight. In fact, it might make you a worse fighter.

I'm just wondering why every Judo club in America is neglecting taking students out of the dojo on a regular basis for these essential, complimentary training sessions. Does Judo in America care about being good?

One must be conscious of the bad habits we pick up in supplementing our MA.
While cardio is sport specific, very sport specific, there is always some carry over.
Running is always good training, it helps you get from a to b.

[David Jamieson]

hows this? (http://colbertsheroes.org/lolberts/noblet%20kegels.jpg)

epic fail.

a squad will be by to burn your house and beat your mother shortly.

you were warned before!!! :mad:

[Lucas]

Running is always good training, it helps you get from a to b.

i know right? if it wasnt for running i would never get anywhere!



badabing

[MightyB]

Running a marathon doesn't train the same conditioning needed for a fight. In fact, it might make you a worse fighter.

I'm just wondering why every Judo club in America is neglecting taking students out of the dojo on a regular basis for these essential, complimentary training sessions. Does Judo in America care about being good?

blah blah blah - yes sprinting and indian running are better for the kids flailing away at mach 2 and 1/2. When you get a little older, the game changes to patience, exploiting mistakes, and cunning. Distance running and moderate jogging are fine for that.

and believe me, there's a lot of us wondering if Judo in America cares about being good 'cuz it sure as heck isn't set up that way. If America really cared - we'd dominate that just like every other Olympic sport we care about. But we don't.

[Lucas]

epic fail.

a squad will be by to burn your house and beat your mother shortly.

you were warned before!!! :mad:

I....just....cant..help myself..

[David Jamieson]

*snippage* When you get a little older, the game changes to patience, exploiting mistakes, and cunning. *more snippages*

If America really cared - we'd dominate that just like every other Olympic sport we care about. But we don't.


on point one: don't forget the stabbing. stabbing is key once you're older.

on point two "**** you america!!!! **** you all to helllllll!!!!"

(point two must be iterated in a charlton heston planet of teh apes voice tomber.

:D

[MightyB]

You have to admit that this is one of the more fun threads that we've had in a while.

This reminds me of when juggling was the big fad for the receivers when I played highschool football. Every single one of us learned the basics of juggling 3 balls.

[David Jamieson]

You have to admit that this is one of the more fun threads that we've had in a while.

This reminds me of when juggling was the big fad for the receivers when I played highschool football. Every single one of us learned the basics of juggling 3 balls.

that would be the football and your nads? :D

[MightyB]

that would be the football and your nads? :D

He11s yeah - the smart guys always had a cheerleader help.

[MasterKiller]

blah blah blah - yes sprinting and indian running are better for the kids flailing away at mach 2 and 1/2. When you get a little older, the game changes to patience, exploiting mistakes, and cunning. Distance running and moderate jogging are fine for that. Bullsh1t. You've just lowered your own standard of performance. That's OK, but don't make the mistake of projecting it onto the rest of the world.


and believe me, there's a lot of us wondering if Judo in America cares about being good 'cuz it sure as heck isn't set up that way. If America really cared - we'd dominate that just like every other Olympic sport we care about. But we don't.

Seems easy enough to fix. Apparently, you just have to play more basketball.

[David Jamieson]

If you love yourself, you'll have good company 24/7/365.

If you LOVE yourself, your dink will hurt now and then and you'll probably need prostate surgery sometime around 50 years old.

so, yes and no.

:D

[MasterKiller]

If hitting the bag makes you a better fighter, does masturbation make you a better lover? Its pretty much the same thing right? You go through the motions pretending you have a partner. LOL...How's that working out for you MK?

Skateboarding makes you better at masturbation. Just plain ol common sense.

[uki]

Skateboarding makes you better at masturbation. Just plain ol common sense.it's quite obvious that you are speaking from experience. :D

the Lord thy Hand... :p

[MightyB]

Bullsh1t. You've just lowered your own standard of performance. That's OK, but don't make the mistake of projecting it onto the rest of the world.



Seems easy enough to fix. Apparently, you just have to play more basketball.

Roy Harris, George Foreman, and Rhadi Ferfuson... Yeah- they essentially say the same thing. Guess they're projecting too... :rolleyes:

It's called confidence and experience. After awhile, you stop panicking. Doesn't mean you're invincible, just means you stop panicking. When you no longer panic, you can control the tempo... especially in Judo or Jiu Jitsu.

Another analogy on patience and tempo goes like this: An old bull and a young bull are standing on top of a hill that overlooked a herd of heifers. The young bull says to the old bull "hey, let's run down there and f--- one of those heifers". The old bull looked at the young bull and said, "no son, let's walk down this hill and f--- them all."

[MasterKiller]

Roy Harris, George Foreman, and Rhadi Ferfuson... Yeah- they essentially say the same thing. Guess they're projecting too... :rolleyes: Where did these guys say that distance running and moderate jogging are all the conditioning you need as an old man to compete against younger fighters?

Link?

BTW, George Foreman learned to box by playing Cricket. True story.


It's called confidence and experience. After awhile, you stop panicking. Doesn't mean you're invincible, just means you stop panicking. When you no longer panic, you can control the tempo... especially in Judo or Jiu Jitsu.
http://www.grapplersgym.com/public/images/strength%20training%20for%20judo.pdf

Pulkinnen (12) conducted a comprehensive review of the literature related to
time–motion analysis of grappling sports and suggested a work to rest ratio
of 2:1 to 3:1 for judo-specific interval training. Likewise, Tabata and his associates
(14) found that 7 to 8 sets of interval training with the same work to rest
ratio had a profound effect on both aerobic and anaerobic capacities. They used
interval training for their national team speed skaters that involved 20 seconds
of pedaling on a cycle ergometer at maximal levels followed by 10 seconds of
submaximal work for 7 to 8 repetitions.

Armed with this information, we use circuit weight training (CWT) combined
with interval training (IT) as the main components of our metabolic conditioning
program. There is no substitute for training in the actual sport. However, because of their metabolic costs, CWT and IT can be effective in creating a metabolic
state similar to what develops in a judo match in a safe manner while maintaining
strength (11, 14). This is especially important for those athletes who have
to meticulously manage total body weight.

The CWT should be developed in accordance with the length of the bout.
For example, the CWT session for an athlete preparing for an international
event consisting of 5-minute matches may be different than the session for a
junior athlete preparing for a regional tournament with 3-minute matches. For
an example of our basic CWT session, see Table 3. The frequency and overall
volume with which the CWT should be used depends on a variety of factors, and
the strength and conditioning coach should work closely with the judo coach
to monitor overall training and competition volume in case acute program
variables need to be modified. Also, we encourage the coaches (and athletes) to
modify this program and to experiment with other variations to determine what
best suits the needs of his or her athletes.


Another analogy on patience and tempo goes like this: An old bull and a young bull are standing on top of a hill that overlooked a herd of heifers. The young bull says to the old bull "hey, let's run down there and f--- one of those heifers". The old bull looked at the young bull and said, "no son, let's walk down this hill and f--- them all." Gassing after f@cking the first hefer doesn't equate to f@cking the whole herd.

[MightyB]

has been doing a more than adequate job for intense cardio. Run, stop, accelerate, sprint - all in the soccer. ;) plus it's fun.


















Douche :D
Ahhhhhh (secret word)

[Lucas]

has been doing a more than adequate job for intense cardio. Run, stop, accelerate, sprint - all in the soccer. ;) plus it's fun.



Douche :D
Ahhhhhh (secret word)

ahhhhh


oh hey, also dont forget the multiple opponent aspect of soccer. especially if you're in the stands!

[uki]

what's to prove? if you want to see if i can tear your throat out with some tiger claw techniques, by all means, please feel free to stop by and threaten my family with some physical harm. :)
this is where i like to grab the arguement by the throat... why are you so concerned with someones fighting abilities? is it a sign of personal insecurity or something? it goes for everyone who gets defensive when some alternate form or style comes along... defense mechanism clicks in - you've got a business to protect or some other excuse to cling to... obviously your manifestation of arrogance doubts someone elses ability to fight, while at the same time you attack it as if to retain the dominate postion... i am simply here to bring, to the table of the martial arts, another form of training that one can incorporate into their practice.

*meow*

:Ddarn... i must've struck a nerve or something... the masterkiller seemed to have side-stepped any responses to my earlier post - i was waiting for a grand intellectual comeback. :cool: