Joe Dunphy gets slapped with restraining order!

[tianshanwhy]

This just in: Joe Dunphy head instructor of US Martial Arts & Tai Chi Academy in Gaithersburg MD and Huang ChienLiang's senior disciple recently called Master Dennis Brown and threatened him and his family. At first Joe told Master Brown to change some facts on his website concerning the true history of Tien Shan Pai. He went on to tell Master Brown that he had “30 disciples who would take a bullet” over this issue and “they will come in waves”. At first Master Brown was amused until Joe said “they will come after his family”. This is when Master Brown became concerned since he was scheduled to leave town the following day. He called the police to ask them to watch his home while he was away. The police said they would do that but when he returns he must file police report. Master Brown filed report and was required to file restraining order. Joe was subpoenaed and testified in court. The judge asked him if he had made the call and Joe said “no”. Then the judge informed him that they would check the phone records which prompted Joe to have a sudden recollection. He told the judge that he was “just trying to help”, and that he was trying to “protect Master Brown from harm”. Of course the judge saw through this feeble alibi and slapped him with restraining order. He also informed Joe that if anything happens to Master Brown or his family, the police will come to his school during class and put him in handcuffs in front of his students and haul him to jail holding him personally responsible for the actions of his brainwashed lackeys.
Also during break in the trial Master Brown was waiting in hallway across from Joe. That’s when he was approached by several bailiffs who recognized him. They gave Master Brown formal salute and told him that they studied kung fu and knew his reputation because their teachers had spoken highly of him. They went and informed the judge of his stellar reputation to the dismay of poor Joe.
Now Joe must avoid Master Brown, he cannot be on the same side of street or same building-Joe must flee. This is part of public record and can be easily verified.
Furthermore Master Brown called Huang to inform him of the actions of his chief disciple. Huang alleged he knew nothing about it yet asked Master Brown to change website. This implies that Huang was in collusion with Joe.
Some points I would like to make. First Master Brown is senior disciple of Master Willy Lin who was first to teach TSP in US. Master Brown taught Huang ChienLiang TSP when he first came to US. This is verified by several eye witnesses. Joe and Huang have been attempting to mislead the public about the true history of TSP both modern and ancient for their own profit. They actually claim that TSP is over 2000 years old! This despite the fact that the style is recorded in Nanjing ZhongYang as having been created in 1930s! Huang continues to pretend that he is “supreme grandmaster” of TSP despite the fact that NO ONE in Taiwan from Grandmaster Wang’s school even knows who he is. In fact recently they have become aware of his false claims and have issued formal challenge to Huang. Huang has yet to answer this challenge perhaps due to the fact that he was recently kicked out of GuoShu federation for fraud.
http://sites.google.com/site/tienshanpainow/news-and-notes
Chinese martial arts are noble and positive. We do not need wannabe gangsters or flim flam fakesters sullying our art. This is a concern to all hard working Kung Fu teachers who do not need bad press. This kind of behavior should be called out and repudiated by us all or public will have false impression on all of us. Friends don’t let friends train with punks!
For the true, documented, and verifiable history of TSP please refer to:
http://www.linkungfu.com/tips.php

Also the page on Master Brown’s website that made Joes and his flunkies so upset is here:
http://dennisbrownshaolin.com/GrandMasterBrown.html
In conclusion, no amount of empty threats or actual violence can change the facts. Huang and his cult can try to rewrite history but they can’t change it. The facts, evidence, documents, eyewitnesses, and consensus all show, crystal clear, that Huang is grandmaster IN HIS OWN IMAGINATION ONLY.

[David Jamieson]

lol.

wtf?
:p:confused::eek::p:D

[taai gihk yahn]

lol.

wtf?
:p:confused::eek::p:D

shhh! waves of ninjas will descend on your family...

[BoulderDawg]

So?

This happens hundreds of times every day in the US?

Let me ask this: Does your Master know you are coming on this board to continue and egg on some sort of feud?

[taai gihk yahn]

So?

This happens hundreds of times every day in the US?

Let me ask this: Does your Master know you are coming on this board to continue and egg on some sort of feud?

it's about the ninjas man, waves of bullet-taking ninjas...

[IronWeasel]

I'm telling you for the last time: Change that website!!!!:mad:













;)

[Mr Punch]

A f uck is offered by whom, precisely?

[taai gihk yahn]

A f uck is offered by whom, precisely?

clearly by the OP-er who wants to score some lickery points...

[tianshanwhy]

So?

This happens hundreds of times every day in the US?

?

Oh really? I've been involved in Chinese martial arts for almost 30 years and I never heard of anyone threatening another teachers family over a website.
This is a first for me but I tend to associate myself with responsible mature members of martial arts family. Guess it depends on who you choose for company...
-TSW?

[Lokhopkuen]

Maturity is in short stock here.

Whispers aside((((((((((Beware of the ninja trolls, they're airwhere!!)))))))))))))))
Click links for profile updates!!


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[Lokhopkuen]

Oh really? I've been involved in Chinese martial arts for almost 30 years and I never heard of anyone threatening another teachers family over a website.
This is a first for me but I tend to associate myself with responsible mature members of martial arts family. Guess it depends on who you choose for company...
-TSW?

Websites are nothing (http://www.babelgum.com/html/clip.php?clipId=3003038&utm_campaign=pas_indiefilm&utm_medium=cpc_socialmedia&utm_source=facebook&utm_content=deadliestman&utm_term)

[David Jamieson]

well at least someone has an overinflated sense of self importance. lol

waves of bullet taking ninjas indeed.

what a load of ****. :p

[brothernumber9]

It seems over the past few yrs, Sifu Huang has been getting his rep blown up. Sifu Marshall really detailed alot last year on this forum and others from his own research, and explicit records from his sifu. I don't think I saw any response or follow up from Sifu Huang.
Now, at least through this post, it looks like Sifu Dunphy perhaps thought he had a claim to GM of Tien Shan Pai in America and felt compelled to come at Sifu Brown. They both (Sifu Huang and Sifu Dunphy) probably should have thought this through more on a lot of levels. Sifu Brown is as respected as any other teacher up and down the east coast, and anyone that has met him knows he could care less about any political garbage as long as it keeps him and his out of it. I hope Sifu Brown brings a team to the Baltimore tourney this year. That would be fun to watch.

[Pork Chop]

yeah i take back all the mean things i said about marshall (albeit like 5 years ago).
at the time i thought he was just being a d!ck, but he was clearly onto something.

[Suntzu]

except for a few, that whole group is just wacky

[David Jamieson]

It seems over the past few yrs, Sifu Huang has been getting his rep blown up. Sifu Marshall really detailed alot last year on this forum and others from his own research, and explicit records from his sifu. I don't think I saw any response or follow up from Sifu Huang.
Now, at least through this post, it looks like Sifu Dunphy perhaps thought he had a claim to GM of Tien Shan Pai in America and felt compelled to come at Sifu Brown. They both (Sifu Huang and Sifu Dunphy) probably should have thought this through more on a lot of levels. Sifu Brown is as respected as any other teacher up and down the east coast, and anyone that has met him knows he could care less about any political garbage as long as it keeps him and his out of it. I hope Sifu Brown brings a team to the Baltimore tourney this year. That would be fun to watch.

All I'm saying is that this is an international site and for the most part, most people don't give a **** who these guys are, what they do etc etc.

really, we don't care. They should just keep their stuff in their sandbox and deal with it like men instead of pussies.

If they don't like each other and got a beef, that is what the kungfu is for. go beat the crap out of each other and the winner gets the other one's students. end of story and they shouldn't forget to put up videos at youtube so we can further ridicule them for being pompous asses with overinflated senses of self importance.

bwahahahahahaha

signed
who gives a rats ass.

:D

[Pork Chop]

except for a few, that whole group is just wacky

so i take it that Jon's just doing his own thing now and not a part of the org?


David
you gotta understand that the people involved are responsible for 2 of the biggest tournaments on the east coast.

[David Jamieson]

so i take it that Jon's just doing his own thing now and not a part of the org?


David
you gotta understand that the people involved are responsible for 2 of the biggest tournaments on the east coast.

really? and they act like this?

wow, just wow.

poor form.

[BoulderDawg]

To be honest I believe both these groups to be dishonorable and I would not have anything to do with either.

If what was said is true (and there is still doubt here, I don't think the call was taped) then that's just crazy. You don't call people up and threaten to kill them.

Also, I've been threatened before. I didn't make a big deal out of if. I didn't go to any police or make it public. I just told them that, in that case, if I were you I'd watch my back and not sleep because I won't give you a chance to attack me first.

Also, students bringing this feud to a public board is crazy. It's none of their business. If the same thing was happening in my school I think the Masters could handle it without my help.

[brothernumber9]

All I'm saying is that this is an international site and for the most part, most people don't give a **** who these guys are, what they do etc etc.

really, we don't care. They should just keep their stuff in their sandbox and deal with it like men instead of pussies.

If they don't like each other and got a beef, that is what the kungfu is for. go beat the crap out of each other and the winner gets the other one's students. end of story and they shouldn't forget to put up videos at youtube so we can further ridicule them for being pompous asses with overinflated senses of self importance.

bwahahahahahaha

signed
who gives a rats ass.

:D

I disagree to more of an extent than agree. I think most on these forums love the flame wars from time to time. The fact that this is local to me makes it even more interesting to me. Consider as well, that within some of these flame wars here and there, information is made available to more people than was before. When the whole CLF Chan Heung/Jeong Yim thing was blowing up, there was a plethora of info and history and lineage divulged...for free!

[David Jamieson]

I disagree to more of an extent than agree. I think most on these forums love the flame wars from time to time. The fact that this is local to me makes it even more interesting to me. Consider as well, that within some of these flame wars here and there, information is made available to more people than was before. When the whole CLF Chan Heung/Jeong Yim thing was blowing up, there was a plethora of info and history and lineage divulged...for free!

fair enough.

i wonder if these guys wear pants or shorts when they go crazy on their makawari boards.

:p

[Lokhopkuen]

All I'm saying is that this is an international site and for the most part, most people don't give a **** who these guys are, what they do etc etc.

really, we don't care. They should just keep their stuff in their sandbox and deal with it like men instead of pussies.

If they don't like each other and got a beef, that is what the kungfu is for. go beat the crap out of each other and the winner gets the other one's students. end of story and they shouldn't forget to put up videos at youtube so we can further ridicule them for being pompous asses with overinflated senses of self importance.

bwahahahahahaha

signed
who gives a rats ass.

:D

Let 'em rant David, wave with it bro.;)

[tianshanwhy]

Just wanted to clarify my intention as I see where this dialogue is going. I am not affiliated with these parties. I think that a martial arts family should at the very least speak out against this behavior. It reflects on us all in the publics eyes. I know that threatening someone’s family was downplayed by some here, but get real- this is seriously deranged and criminal!
This has nothing to do with skills or barnyard brawls-please grow up. This is simply about disgusting criminal behavior and blatantly fraudulent claims. All the evidence is available-heres the court info:
http://casesearch.courts.state.md.us/inquiry/inquiryDetail.jis?caseId=0502SP001592009&loc=20&detailLoc=DV

Posting this publicly is the least I can do to shine light on situation. Sunlight is best disinfectant. Parents may want to know that this instructor goes around threatening his rival’s family before they enroll their children in his program.
-TSW?

[tianshanwhy]

“you gotta understand that the people involved are responsible for 2 of the biggest tournaments on the east coast.”

-perhaps that makes them think they can act like this…

-TSW?

[Scott R. Brown]

Oh really? I've been involved in Chinese martial arts for almost 30 years and I never heard of anyone threatening another teachers family over a website.
This is a first for me but I tend to associate myself with responsible mature members of martial arts family. Guess it depends on who you choose for company...
-TSW?

Welcome to the dark side of martial arts!!

[taai gihk yahn]

Just wanted to clarify my intention as I see where this dialogue is going. I am not affiliated with these parties. I think that a martial arts family should at the very least speak out against this behavior. It reflects on us all in the publics eyes. I know that threatening someone’s family was downplayed by some here, but get real- this is seriously deranged and criminal!
This has nothing to do with skills or barnyard brawls-please grow up. This is simply about disgusting criminal behavior and blatantly fraudulent claims. All the evidence is available-heres the court info:
http://casesearch.courts.state.md.us/inquiry/inquiryDetail.jis?caseId=0502SP001592009&loc=20&detailLoc=DV

Posting this publicly is the least I can do to shine light on situation. Sunlight is best disinfectant. Parents may want to know that this instructor goes around threatening his rival’s family before they enroll their children in his program.
-TSW?
best rationalization for blatant pot-stirring ever posted!

[Mas Judt]

This kind of behavior is just stupid. But with the threats and the police involvement, it is no different than the thread 'busted martial artists.'

If it is all factual (I assume it is since links are supplied to court documents), why not discuss it here? We give a lot more cr@p to the Shaolin-Do guys, and they aren't running around threatening peoples families over a web site.

Shameful behavior.

[Suntzu]

so i take it that Jon's just doing his own thing now and not a part of the org?


he's been out of there.... he even has THE OFFICIAL LETTER:eek:

[bawang]

whats tian shan pai? whos joe dunphy??
my balls itch

[cerebus]

whats tian shan pai? whos joe dunphy??
my balls itch

Tian Shan Pai is a group based out of Taiwan teaching a curriculum of external and internal Kuoshu (Kung Fu) styles.

Joe Dunphy is a long-time practitioner and instructor of the Tien Shan Pai and the former World Full Contact Kuoshu Fighting champion from 1986.

[bawang]

hi thanks for the info
tian shan is a desolat mountin at western china border i never heard of any people living there let a lone a martial art sect there why are they called tian shan pai? is it a new made up style??

[cerebus]

is it a new made up style??

Depends on who you ask. They're at least a few generations old.

[Suntzu]

64 +/- .... or so they say.... *shrug* and joe dunphy is a legitimate bada$$ tuff SOB...... the "beef" is, well.... :confused:

[tianshanwhy]

best rationalization for blatant pot-stirring ever posted!

Reminds me of Chinese saying, "You can't stop water from boiling by stirring it"

You seem to be using same logic as Iranian Gov't. They are shutting down internet and banning reporting for same reason you're suggesting.
How is NOT reporting facts and information helpful? How does that serve the victims. How is sharing facts and information harmful? Should we bury our heads in the sand?
This pot was boiling over way before I came here and reported it.

[taai gihk yahn]

You seem to be using same logic as Iranian Gov't. They are shutting down internet and banning reporting for same reason you're suggesting.
LOL! please - that is the lamest attempt at comparison I've heard in ages; hmmm, let's see - you think that my qualifying what your post as pot-stirring because it is loaded w/inflammatory comments about Huang and Dunphy is equivalent to an autocratic theocracy systematically and violently repressing its own people justifying it based on their interpretation of Islamic Law; oh yea, that's TOTALLY the same logical basis :rolleyes:; but nice try, rejecting my opinion by comparing me to the IRANIAN GOVERNMENT :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


How is NOT reporting facts and information helpful? How does that serve the victims.
victims? what victims? there were no vicitms - no one was assaulted, injured, etc.; threats were made; the legal system was utilized; furhermore, did the "victims" say, "hey, tianshanwhy, ya know, I feel really victimized, and need you to help me by posting all about Dunphy and Huang on KFM, because, you know, that will serve me."; dude, the "victims" were helped and served by the law - what you post does nothing more than re-open the wound; Dunphy made threats; he was a douche for doing that; he was dealt with; how is what you are doing "helping" anyone?


How is sharing facts and information harmful?
hey Reuters, you could have shared the "facts" in about three sentences; what you posted was a laundry-woman's litany of juicy gossip bits that is obviously intended to get people worked up; don't play so innocent - it's offensive to anyone with intelligence;


Should we bury our heads in the sand?
what's this "we" sh1t? why should 99% of the population on this board give a cr@p about the fact that one CMA guy got threatened by another and now there's a restraining order in place? it's not about suppressing information, as you so dramatically suggest via your comparisson of me to the Revolutionary Guard - rather, it seems that your agenda is to use this information to impact Dunphy in ways beyond what the law has decided; you are basically "warning" people away from him, suggesting that his behavior should make people thinnk twice about studying with him; which is fine if you want to do that, but at least be honest about your agenda - you are not "just" reporting facts, you are trying very concertedly to influence people's opinion about Dunphy in a negative way; to hide behind the facade of "objective reporting" is pretty lame;


This pot was boiling over way before I came here and reported it.
yeah, and then you added a few logs to the fire


This just in: Joe Dunphy head instructor of US Martial Arts & Tai Chi Academy in Gaithersburg MD and Huang ChienLiang's senior disciple recently called Master Dennis Brown and threatened him and his family. At first Joe told Master Brown to change some facts on his website concerning the true history of Tien Shan Pai. He went on to tell Master Brown that he had “30 disciples who would take a bullet” over this issue and “they will come in waves”. At first Master Brown was amused until Joe said “they will come after his family”. This is when Master Brown became concerned since he was scheduled to leave town the following day. He called the police to ask them to watch his home while he was away. The police said they would do that but when he returns he must file police report. Master Brown filed report and was required to file restraining order. Joe was subpoenaed and testified in court. The judge asked him if he had made the call and Joe said “no”. Then the judge informed him that they would check the phone records which prompted Joe to have a sudden recollection. He told the judge that he was “just trying to help”, and that he was trying to “protect Master Brown from harm”. Of course the judge saw through this feeble alibi and slapped him with restraining order. He also informed Joe that if anything happens to Master Brown or his family, the police will come to his school during class and put him in handcuffs in front of his students and haul him to jail holding him personally responsible for the actions of his brainwashed lackeys.
Also during break in the trial Master Brown was waiting in hallway across from Joe. That’s when he was approached by several bailiffs who recognized him. They gave Master Brown formal salute and told him that they studied kung fu and knew his reputation because their teachers had spoken highly of him. They went and informed the judge of his stellar reputation to the dismay of poor Joe.
so, Mr. Ace-Reporter: for all of the above, please cite your sources: if you are "just reporting the facts", then all of the above should be verifiable through reliable sources (court documents, transcripts, police reports, newspaper articles etc.); although, I am guessing that you were basically told all of this second or third hand in the changing room at the school...


Now Joe must avoid Master Brown, he cannot be on the same side of street or same building-Joe must flee. This is part of public record and can be easily verified.
great; so verify it (and not by providing a link to the MD court database with no other identifying info - you brought it up, you provide a direct link to the documentation)


Furthermore Master Brown called Huang to inform him of the actions of his chief disciple. Huang alleged he knew nothing about it yet asked Master Brown to change website. This implies that Huang was in collusion with Joe.
and you were privy to this conversation? otherwise it "implies" nothing, since it's hearsay


Some points I would like to make. First Master Brown is senior disciple of Master Willy Lin who was first to teach TSP in US. Master Brown taught Huang ChienLiang TSP when he first came to US. This is verified by several eye witnesses. Joe and Huang have been attempting to mislead the public about the true history of TSP both modern and ancient for their own profit. They actually claim that TSP is over 2000 years old! This despite the fact that the style is recorded in Nanjing ZhongYang as having been created in 1930s! Huang continues to pretend that he is “supreme grandmaster” of TSP despite the fact that NO ONE in Taiwan from Grandmaster Wang’s school even knows who he is. In fact recently they have become aware of his false claims and have issued formal challenge to Huang. Huang has yet to answer this challenge perhaps due to the fact that he was recently kicked out of GuoShu federation for fraud.
http://sites.google.com/site/tienshanpainow/news-and-notes
Chinese martial arts are noble and positive. We do not need wannabe gangsters or flim flam fakesters sullying our art. This is a concern to all hard working Kung Fu teachers who do not need bad press. This kind of behavior should be called out and repudiated by us all or public will have false impression on all of us. Friends don’t let friends train with punks!
For the true, documented, and verifiable history of TSP please refer to:
http://www.linkungfu.com/tips.php
see ALL of that last bit (and parts of the others) has NOTHING to do with you "reporting the facts" about Joe Dunphy being given a restraining order against Dennis Brown; rather, it is a bunch of subjective opinions that you feel are now justified by the outcome of the legal case; which they may well be; but don't pretend that you are "just reporting the facts" when you state them;


Also the page on Master Brown’s website that made Joes and his flunkies so upset is here:
http://dennisbrownshaolin.com/GrandMasterBrown.html
In conclusion, no amount of empty threats or actual violence can change the facts. Huang and his cult can try to rewrite history but they can’t change it. The facts, evidence, documents, eyewitnesses, and consensus all show, crystal clear, that Huang is grandmaster IN HIS OWN IMAGINATION ONLY.
again, this is obviously nothing more than an attempt on your part to damage Huang's credibility; WHICH IS FINE - go ahead, drag the man through the mud, personally I don't care - I don't know either of them and really don't give a rat's asz if your posting results in their "empire" crumbling to the ground - and maybe they do in fact deserve that to happen - but don't play innocent, don't have the audacity to suggest that you are a altruistically just "reporting the facts" - you're here to paint Huang and Dunphy in a negative light, possibly to stroke your personal ego at the same time as the bearer of important news, and to do so you provide at this point non-referenced "evidence" mixed w/a big dose of personal opinion and sprinkled liberally w/moralistic and judgmental comments; and that's called "stirring the pot"; since you asked...

[taai gihk yahn]

my balls itch
it's because you lack Dao

[Chief_Suicide]

LOL! please - that is the lamest attempt at comparison I've heard in ages; hmmm, let's see - you think that my qualifying what your post as pot-stirring because it is loaded w/inflammatory comments about Huang and Dunphy is equivalent to an autocratic theocracy systematically and violently repressing its own people justifying it based on their interpretation of Islamic Law; oh yea, that's TOTALLY the same logical basis :rolleyes:; but nice try, rejecting my opinion by comparing me to the IRANIAN GOVERNMENT :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


victims? what victims? there were no vicitms - no one was assaulted, injured, etc.; threats were made; the legal system was utilized; furhermore, did the "victims" say, "hey, tianshanwhy, ya know, I feel really victimized, and need you to help me by posting all about Dunphy and Huang on KFM, because, you know, that will serve me."; dude, the "victims" were helped and served by the law - what you post does nothing more than re-open the wound; Dunphy made threats; he was a douche for doing that; he was dealt with; how is what you are doing "helping" anyone?


hey Reuters, you could have shared the "facts" in about three sentences; what you posted was a laundry-woman's litany of juicy gossip bits that is obviously intended to get people worked up; don't play so innocent - it's offensive to anyone with intelligence;


what's this "we" sh1t? why should 99% of the population on this board give a cr@p about the fact that one CMA guy got threatened by another and now there's a restraining order in place? it's not about suppressing information, as you so dramatically suggest via your comparisson of me to the Revolutionary Guard - rather, it seems that your agenda is to use this information to impact Dunphy in ways beyond what the law has decided; you are basically "warning" people away from him, suggesting that his behavior should make people thinnk twice about studying with him; which is fine if you want to do that, but at least be honest about your agenda - you are not "just" reporting facts, you are trying very concertedly to influence people's opinion about Dunphy in a negative way; to hide behind the facade of "objective reporting" is pretty lame;


yeah, and then you added a few logs to the fire


so, Mr. Ace-Reporter: for all of the above, please cite your sources: if you are "just reporting the facts", then all of the above should be verifiable through reliable sources (court documents, transcripts, police reports, newspaper articles etc.); although, I am guessing that you were basically told all of this second or third hand in the changing room at the school...


great; so verify it (and not by providing a link to the MD court database with no other identifying info - you brought it up, you provide a direct link to the documentation)


and you were privy to this conversation? otherwise it "implies" nothing, since it's hearsay


see ALL of that last bit (and parts of the others) has NOTHING to do with you "reporting the facts" about Joe Dunphy being given a restraining order against Dennis Brown; rather, it is a bunch of subjective opinions that you feel are now justified by the outcome of the legal case; which they may well be; but don't pretend that you are "just reporting the facts" when you state them;


again, this is obviously nothing more than an attempt on your part to damage Huang's credibility; WHICH IS FINE - go ahead, drag the man through the mud, personally I don't care - I don't know either of them and really don't give a rat's asz if your posting results in their "empire" crumbling to the ground - and maybe they do in fact deserve that to happen - but don't play innocent, don't have the audacity to suggest that you are a altruistically just "reporting the facts" - you're here to paint Huang and Dunphy in a negative light, possibly to stroke your personal ego at the same time as the bearer of important news, and to do so you provide at this point non-referenced "evidence" mixed w/a big dose of personal opinion and sprinkled liberally w/moralistic and judgmental comments; and that's called "stirring the pot"; since you asked...

I wish I could have come up with a reply that is this good. You pretty much took what I was thinking and destroyed him with it. I'm sure my post wouldn't have been near as well laid out.

Some people like to gossip and stir up crap like high school female click. That is all they'll ever be good at because it is all they live for. Being a 'hanger-on' is never attractive.

[TenTigers]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrzmbSX1pmo&feature=related

[B-Rad]

As someone who's received hostile and threatening private messages from the anti Huang Chien-Liang group before over a case of mistaken identity (thought I was someone else) I can't say I'm impressed by either group.

Anyway, post the court record. I think it'll be more interesting reading.

[Shaolinlueb]

I'm telling you for the last time: Change that website!!!!:mad:

dot :eek:.
..........

[tianshanwhy]

hi thanks for the info
tian shan is a desolat mountin at western china border i never heard of any people living there let a lone a martial art sect there why are they called tian shan pai? is it a new made up style??

Joe Dunphy is Huangs senior disciple. These guys have been claiming 64th (and 65th respectfully) generation grandmaster of Tien Shan Pai kung fu.
Unfortunately there are no 64 generations and he was never appointed as GM. Its from Nanjing- there is no style originating in Tian Shan. In fact the style is heavily documented as originating less that 100 years ago and Huang is unknown in the class in Taiwan where it was formulated. In fact since they have heard Huangs claims they have issued standing challenge to him. He dare not show his face. So This Dunphy episode is only latest chapter in drama. The reason the threats were made is because Dennis Brown posted facts about origin of style and blasted the david carradine fable they have been shilling.
The one who brought the style (and Huang) to US was Willy Lin. He was there and has all the documents and proof. His website is
www.linkungfu.com
word out
-TS?

[tianshanwhy]

Dear Taai,

“LOL! please - that is the lamest attempt at comparison I've heard in ages; hmmm, let's see - you think that my qualifying what your post as pot-stirring because it is loaded w/inflammatory comments about Huang and Dunphy is equivalent to an autocratic theocracy systematically and violently repressing its own people justifying it based on their interpretation of Islamic Law; oh yea, that's TOTALLY the same logical basis ; but nice try, rejecting my opinion by comparing me to the IRANIAN GOVERNMENT”

Oops- You missed the analogy-way off son! I was comparing you calling me “pot stirrer” to Iranian govt calling media “pot stirrers” for reporting protests. Got it? Didn’t say you were executing Sharia law- don’t know where you got that from. Read this it may help you understand the comparison:
‘The deputy head of Iran's National Security and Foreign Policy committee, Hossein Sobhaninia, called this week for steps against CNN and the BBC, whose Farsi-language satellite channel is hugely popular here.
Without a doubt, foreign media, and especially the BBC's Persian service and radio, are the main orchestrators of disorder in the country, guiding rioting elements that support neither the candidates nor the Islamic revolution, Sobhaninia said Tuesday.’ -Wash Post

You suggesting that I am creating disorder by posting here is same as these clowns blaming media. Got it?

“victims? what victims? there were no victims”

I couldn’t disagree more. Don’t you think the Brown family is victimized by this? How would you feel if your family was threatened by a gang of lunatics? Anyone trying to promote positive martial arts is set back by this behavior. It makes kung fu look like kobra kai. Maybe you don’t care about public perception of martial arts but believe me, many people do.

“no one was assaulted, injured, etc.; threats were made; the legal system was utilized… the "victims" were helped and served by the law”

And by the magic of MD law the threat just goes away-poof! I’m sure the Brown family (and anyone else these guys may have threatened) can sleep better now with your confidant reassurances.

“did the "victims" say, "hey, tianshanwhy, ya know, I feel really victimized, and need you to help me by posting all about Dunphy and Huang on KFM, because, you know, that will serve me."

I actually posted this on my own after learning the facts because I was shocked and abhorred. I thought the martial arts community should repudiate these clowns and would be wise not to associate with them. Do you like to associate yourself with this sort of company? Who told you to post here and cast dispersions? Did someone say, “Hey Taai can you please review all these statements and see if you detect any bias? Because I’m not able to do it myself.”

“dude, - what you post does nothing more than re-open the wound”

But threatening Dennis Brown’s family was just the healing salve that martial arts community needed? Great logic! Again blaming the messenger.

“Dunphy made threats; he was a douche for doing that; he was dealt with; how is what you are doing "helping" anyone?”

Perhaps you could use your imagination. ‘Why didn’t someone post this incident online before I enrolled my children in Joe Dunphy’s kung fu class? Now that my son is tangerine belt I find out he’s a douche!’ Some people search online for information about instructor before enrolling children in case you didn’t know. It’s funny how parents like to know about this stuff.

“hey Reuters, you could have shared the "facts" in about three sentences”

Oops Taai sounds like you were looking for AP- you got the wrong url. This is kung fu chat forum.

“what you posted was a laundry-woman's litany of juicy gossip bits that is obviously intended to get people worked up; don't play so innocent - it's offensive to anyone with intelligence”


LOL- My plan sure did work as far as you were concerned. Success! ~diabolicaly rubs hands together~ Ha!

“what's this "we" sh1t?”

“We” refers to the folks who are or have been exposing these guys. If you followed story you would know that it was Master Brown posting facts about TSP on website that got Dunphy off the rails.

“why should 99% of the population on this board give a cr@p about the fact that one CMA guy got threatened by another and now there's a restraining order in place?”

Why would 99% care what someone who doesn’t know or doesn’t care thinks? It hasn’t stopped you from throwing in your 2 cents.

“it seems that your agenda is to use this information to impact Dunphy in ways beyond what the law has decided; you are basically "warning" people away from him, suggesting that his behavior should make people thinnk twice about studying with him; which is fine if you want to do that”

Oh thank you for your permission great internet authority. It’s the least I could do really.

“but at least be honest about your agenda - you are not "just" reporting facts, you are trying very concertedly to influence people's opinion about Dunphy in a negative way”

Darn foiled again! How do you manage to see through my subterfuge? Lol! Considering what this clique is doing-its not hard to “influence people's opinion about Dunphy in a negative way”. In fact they make it sooo easy!

“to hide behind the facade of "objective reporting" is pretty lame”

I noticed you can’t challenge my objective report. In fact you are talking less and less about what happened and more and more about me. That’s pretty lame considering what Dunphy and his lot have done.

“yeah, and then you added a few logs to the fire”

Waite- thought you said I was pot stirrer? Now I’m also “log adder”?

“so, Mr. Ace-Reporter: for all of the above, please cite your sources: if you are "just reporting the facts", then all of the above should be verifiable through reliable sources (court documents, transcripts, police reports, newspaper articles etc.); although, I am guessing that you were basically told all of this second or third hand in the changing room at the school...”

All the players in this drama are listed. Already posted court info. It seems so important to you (otherwise you wouldn’t waste precious time posting here). You are free to verify my claims yourself. It’s easy to do. Better than casting dispersions on this thread and way more satisfying. I’ve given you the ball Tai, will you run or punt? I have several credible sources, but again, you don’t need to take my word for it. You can check for yourself (not that you care or anything).

“… has NOTHING to do with you "reporting the facts" about Joe Dunphy being given a restraining order against Dennis Brown; rather, it is a bunch of subjective opinions that you feel are now justified by the outcome of the legal case; which they may well be; but don't pretend that you are "just reporting the facts" when you state them;”

Oh no Mr Jameson!- are you firing me from, the Bugle? All of my “subjective opinions” are supported by objective facts. Huang has been misleading public for years. This Joe Dunphy drama is only latest chapter. It is further evidence of this lunatic fringe. Maybe calling people who threaten families “lunatics” or “punks” is what gets your goat. Maybe you don’t like when I call people who make outrageous claims for profit “flim flam”. Maybe you should get news from wall street journal. People say a lot worse things about people here than me. And my claims are rock solid and easily verifiable.

“again, this is obviously nothing more than an attempt on your part to damage Huang's credibility; WHICH IS FINE - go ahead, drag the man through the mud, personally I don't care”

Oh thank you great one for granting your permission! It must get so tiring letting us all know what is fine to post and what is not. Thank you for the “go ahead”! But…For someone who doesn’t care you sure have been a busy little bee! LOL

“ - I don't know either of them and really don't give a rat's asz if your posting results in their "empire" crumbling to the ground - and maybe they do in fact deserve that to happen - but don't play innocent, don't have the audacity to suggest that you are a altruistically just "reporting the facts" - you're here to paint Huang and Dunphy in a negative light”

It must get weary patrolling internet detecting personal bias in posts. Luckily you were here to point out that I was expressing my opinion. Otherwise unsuspecting readers may have missed it. Congrats on your tireless public service!

“possibly to stroke your personal ego at the same time as the bearer of important news”

Aaaah the stroke…

-TS?

[tianshanwhy]

it's because you lack Dao

Thanks for the diagnosis Dr Dao! Hey Zhuang Zi- You should check out this book called ‘dao de jing”.

‘He who knows (the Tao) does not (care to) speak (about it); he who is (ever ready to) speak about it does not know it.’

Oh wise one- when you’re not patrolling internet or riding your ox backward maybe you can elucidate us on this passage.

I wish...
-TS?

[BoulderDawg]

Kinda like the first two rules of Fight Club.

[taai gihk yahn]

Dear Taai,

<etc. etc.>

-TS?

learn to use the quote function; otherwise, that was just more of the same (and rather a lot of it)

[taai gihk yahn]

Thanks for the diagnosis Dr Dao! Hey Zhuang Zi- You should check out this book called ‘dao de jing”.
actually, that comment was based on a running joke bawang between bawang and I that we have been kicking back and forth over several threads, derrr; and BTW, the DDJ was ascribed to Lao Zi, not Zhuang Zi :rolleyes:


‘He who knows (the Tao) does not (care to) speak (about it); he who is (ever ready to) speak about it does not know it.’
Oh wise one- when you’re not patrolling internet or riding your ox backward maybe you can elucidate us on this passage.
I wish...
-TS?
well, since you "wished" it's actually pretty straight forward: that phrase is proposing that concepts (or words) cannot truly express direct experience; therefore, it is impossible to directly communicate through the use of words one's direct experience of Dao (turth, enlightenment, nirvanna, grace, chocolate ice cream, etc.); it was like when the Buddha held up the flower and Mahakassaya smiled; or as Zhuang Zi wrote in "Discussion on Making All Things Equal", "We have already become one, so how can I say anything [similar to the original quote you posted] But I have just said that we are one, so how can I not be saying something [here he points out the relative existing within the absolute]. The one and what I said about it make two and two and the original one make three. If we go on that way then even the cleverest mathematician cant tell where we'll end. If by moving from nonbeing to being we get to three, how far will we get if we move from being to being? Better not to move, but to let things be."[the "concept" that you have a) a state of "oneness" ; b) the concept of "oneness"; c) the act of expressing the concept of "oneness"]

of course, Lao Zi and Zhuang Zi then proceed to "speak" about the topic for an entire book; that is because, while concepts are ultimately inadequate to the task of describing Dao, they are what we have - they get you into the neighborhood so to speak; in the Blue Cliff Record, the phrase attributed to Boddisatva is that he "goes down amongst the weeds", meaning that in order to teach about "truth", he has to use the very convention that ultimately can lead to obscuring the truth (that is, because language being ultimately ineffectual for communicating meaning, it often brings about consequences even opposite of what was first intended; kinda like your original post, in fact)

so to go around saying "Dao" is "x" or "Dao" is "y" makes no sense inherently, because "Dao" is all encompassing - using words to describe Dao essentially apprehends the totality of it, making it "not-Dao" (which, of course, still is "Dao"!); on a more prosaic level, if you have ever experienced an epiphany moment about something, it really goes beyond words - you can't really convey the feeling of watching a sunrise on a mountain top, can you?

it's essentially the same "problem" that later philosphers have grappled with: WIttgenstein ends his lengthy Tractatus w/the phrase: "Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent."; Hegel toys around w/the concept via his "ding an sich" ("thing in itself") proposal; Derrida annoyed an entire generation of grad students w/his "Diffferance" as it applys to the "logos" (and basically rips of Zhuang Zi word for word in "Of Grammatology"); ultimately though, there is no answer; because the "Dao" is more like a question...sort of...

so, is that what you were really interested in, or were you just trying to set me up, proving that I don't "know" anything about "Dao" because I was "saying" something about it?:rolleyes: if that was the case, then you can go hang out with Kwaichang and misapply that phrase together;

[Scott R. Brown]

He is still new here Chris, he doesn't know any better yet! ;)

[Scott R. Brown]

I thought about telling him you were joking, but then I just decided to let it play out.

[taai gihk yahn]

He is still new here Chris, he doesn't know any better yet! ;)
that'll larn 'im


I thought about telling him you were joking, but then I just decided to let it play out.
I am joking; I got most of that stuff off of the back of a Capin' Crunch box anyway...

[Scott R. Brown]

that'll larn 'im


I am joking; I got most of that stuff off of the back of a Capin' Crunch box anyway...

I would say, 'Give him, What For!", but what for?

[Ben Gash]

as a point of information here's how Martial Arts Planet dealt with him.
http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88175

[Scott R. Brown]

as a point of information here's how Martial Arts Planet dealt with him.
http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88175

I see a pattern developing!

[taai gihk yahn]

I see a pattern developing!

No chance - the hallmark of KFMF is that you only get banned or closed if the scent of your burnt offering is not pleasing to the olfactory center of the Gene...

[tianshanwhy]

learn to use the quote function;

I will learn your ways.


otherwise, that was just more of the same (and rather a lot of it)

I think quoting means "more of the same" in a way. Any way thought the strategically placed "quote" signs were dead giveaway. Live and learn...
-TS?

[tianshanwhy]

LOL! please - that is the lamest attempt at comparison I've heard in ages; hmmm, let's see - you think that my qualifying what your post as pot-stirring because it is loaded w/inflammatory comments about Huang and Dunphy is equivalent to an autocratic theocracy systematically and violently repressing its own people justifying it based on their interpretation of Islamic Law; oh yea, that's TOTALLY the same logical basis ; but nice try, rejecting my opinion by comparing me to the IRANIAN GOVERNMENT

Oops- You missed the analogy-way off son! I was comparing you calling me “pot stirrer” to Iranian govt calling media “pot stirrers” for reporting protests. Got it? Didn’t say you were executing Sharia law- don’t know where you got that from. Read this it may help you understand the comparison:
‘The deputy head of Iran's National Security and Foreign Policy committee, Hossein Sobhaninia, called this week for steps against CNN and the BBC, whose Farsi-language satellite channel is hugely popular here.
Without a doubt, foreign media, and especially the BBC's Persian service and radio, are the main orchestrators of disorder in the country, guiding rioting elements that support neither the candidates nor the Islamic revolution, Sobhaninia said Tuesday.’ -Wash Post

You suggesting that I am creating disorder by posting here is same as these clowns blaming media. Got it?




victims? what victims? there were no victims

I couldn’t disagree more. Don’t you think the Brown family is victimized by this? How would you feel if your family was threatened by a gang of lunatics? Anyone trying to promote positive martial arts is set back by this behavior. It makes kung fu look like kobra kai. Maybe you don’t care about public perception of martial arts but believe me, many people do.


no one was assaulted, injured, etc.; threats were made; the legal system was utilized… the "victims" were helped and served by the law

And by the magic of MD law the threat just goes away-poof! I’m sure the Brown family (and anyone else these guys may have threatened) can sleep better now with your confidant reassurances.


did the "victims" say, "hey, tianshanwhy, ya know, I feel really victimized, and need you to help me by posting all about Dunphy and Huang on KFM, because, you know, that will serve me.

I actually posted this on my own after learning the facts because I was shocked and abhorred. I thought the martial arts community should repudiate these clowns and would be wise not to associate with them. Do you like to associate yourself with this sort of company? Who told you to post here and cast dispersions? Did someone say, “Hey Taai can you please review all these statements and see if you detect any bias? Because I’m not able to do it myself.”


dude, - what you post does nothing more than re-open the wound

But threatening Dennis Brown’s family was just the healing salve that martial arts community needed? Great logic! Again blaming the messenger.


Dunphy made threats; he was a douche for doing that; he was dealt with; how is what you are doing "helping" anyone?

Perhaps you could use your imagination. ‘Why didn’t someone post this incident online before I enrolled my children in Joe Dunphy’s kung fu class? Now that my son is tangerine belt I find out he’s a douche!’ Some people search online for information about instructor before enrolling children in case you didn’t know. It’s funny how parents like to know about this stuff.


hey Reuters, you could have shared the "facts" in about three sentences

Oops Taai sounds like you were looking for AP- you got the wrong url. This is kung fu chat forum.


what you posted was a laundry-woman's litany of juicy gossip bits that is obviously intended to get people worked up; don't play so innocent - it's offensive to anyone with intelligence


LOL- My plan sure did work as far as you were concerned. Success! ~diabolicaly rubs hands together~ Ha!


what's this "we" sh1t?

“We” refers to the folks who are or have been exposing these guys. If you followed story you would know that it was Master Brown posting facts about TSP on website that got Dunphy off the rails.


why should 99% of the population on this board give a cr@p about the fact that one CMA guy got threatened by another and now there's a restraining order in place?

Why would 99% care what someone who doesn’t know or doesn’t care thinks? It hasn’t stopped you from throwing in your 2 cents.


it seems that your agenda is to use this information to impact Dunphy in ways beyond what the law has decided; you are basically "warning" people away from him, suggesting that his behavior should make people thinnk twice about studying with him; which is fine if you want to do that

Oh thank you for your permission great internet authority. It’s the least I could do really.


but at least be honest about your agenda - you are not "just" reporting facts, you are trying very concertedly to influence people's opinion about Dunphy in a negative way

Darn foiled again! How do you manage to see through my subterfuge? Lol! Considering what this clique is doing-its not hard to “influence people's opinion about Dunphy in a negative way”. In fact they make it sooo easy!


to hide behind the facade of "objective reporting" is pretty lame

I noticed you can’t challenge my objective report. In fact you are talking less and less about what happened and more and more about me. That’s pretty lame considering what Dunphy and his lot have done.


yeah, and then you added a few logs to the fire

Waite- thought you said I was pot stirrer? Now I’m also “log adder”?


so, Mr. Ace-Reporter: for all of the above, please cite your sources: if you are "just reporting the facts", then all of the above should be verifiable through reliable sources (court documents, transcripts, police reports, newspaper articles etc.); although, I am guessing that you were basically told all of this second or third hand in the changing room at the school...

All the players in this drama are listed. Already posted court info. It seems so important to you (otherwise you wouldn’t waste precious time posting here). You are free to verify my claims yourself. It’s easy to do. Better than casting dispersions on this thread and way more satisfying. I’ve given you the ball Tai, will you run or punt? I have several credible sources, but again, you don’t need to take my word for it. You can check for yourself (not that you care or anything).


… has NOTHING to do with you "reporting the facts" about Joe Dunphy being given a restraining order against Dennis Brown; rather, it is a bunch of subjective opinions that you feel are now justified by the outcome of the legal case; which they may well be; but don't pretend that you are "just reporting the facts" when you state them

Oh no Mr Jameson!- are you firing me from, the Bugle? All of my “subjective opinions” are supported by objective facts. Huang has been misleading public for years. This Joe Dunphy drama is only latest chapter. It is further evidence of this lunatic fringe. Maybe calling people who threaten families “lunatics” or “punks” is what gets your goat. Maybe you don’t like when I call people who make outrageous claims for profit “flim flam”. Maybe you should get news from wall street journal. People say a lot worse things about people here than me. And my claims are rock solid and easily verifiable.


again, this is obviously nothing more than an attempt on your part to damage Huang's credibility; WHICH IS FINE - go ahead, drag the man through the mud, personally I don't care

Oh thank you great one for granting your permission! It must get so tiring letting us all know what is fine to post and what is not. Thank you for the “go ahead”! But…For someone who doesn’t care you sure have been a busy little bee! LOL


- I don't know either of them and really don't give a rat's asz if your posting results in their "empire" crumbling to the ground - and maybe they do in fact deserve that to happen - but don't play innocent, don't have the audacity to suggest that you are a altruistically just "reporting the facts" - you're here to paint Huang and Dunphy in a negative light

It must get weary patrolling internet detecting personal bias in posts. Luckily you were here to point out that I was expressing my opinion. Otherwise unsuspecting readers may have missed it. Congrats on your tireless public service!


possibly to stroke your personal ego at the same time as the bearer of important news

Aaaah the stroke…

-TS?

[tianshanwhy]

... and BTW, the DDJ was ascribed to Lao Zi, not Zhuang Zi :rolleyes:

I know that! Dr. Dao didn't ride an ox backwards either silly! Just throwing out daoist references for ya. It's a little running joke I have with my buds Jim Kelly, Shonuff, Pam Greer, and Dolemite.



well, since you "wished" it's actually pretty straight forward: ....blah blah blah.......because the "Dao" is more like a question...sort of...

so, is that what you were really interested in, or were you just trying to set me up, proving that I don't "know" anything about "Dao" because I was "saying" something about it?:rolleyes: if that was the case, then you can go hang out with Kwaichang and misapply that phrase together;

Huh? You brought up the whole doaist thing son. Wow you sure know a lot about Daoism. But is that the same as knowing the dao? Or as you claim in your haha joke that I don't "know" it? How would you know I don't know it? How would you know what its like being me knowing the dao compared with being me and NOT knowing dao? Your speach sure is fancy (and confusing)- have you read this part of DDJ:

"Sincere words are not fine; fine words are not sincere. Those who are skilled (in the Tao) do not dispute (about it); the disputatious are not skilled in it. Those who know (the Tao) are not extensively learned; the extensively learned do not know it."

This passage seems to suggest that you've confused knowing the Dao with knowing about daoism. But who knows?

-TS?

[taai gihk yahn]

I know that! Dr. Dao didn't ride an ox backwards either silly! Just throwing out daoist references for ya. It's a little running joke I have with my buds Jim Kelly, Shonuff, Pam Greer, and Dolemite.
you have some interesting friends...


Huh? You brought up the whole doaist thing son.
yeah, but not to you, "pops"; you, OTOH, jumped on it and started in w/all the Dr. Dao (which, btw, I like - notice I've appropriated it!) references and quoting canon...


Wow you sure know a lot about Daoism.
I have studied it on both on the collegiate level and on my own subsequent to that, including rudimentary attempts at translation of the first chapter under guidance of my teacher; so I have some knowledge of the subject; but compared to actual scholars in the field, I know very little;


But is that the same as knowing the dao?
yes and no; it is, like all things, an aspect of it, but formal training in daoist classics is certainly not required for a direct appreciation of Dao; but isn't that obvious? I'm surprised you are asking that question; or wait, maybe it's your way of intimating that because I can engage in an intellectual assessment of daoism that I necessarily don't know "the Dao" directly? is that it?


Or as you claim in your haha joke that I don't "know" it? How would you know I don't know it? How would you know what its like being me knowing the dao compared with being me and NOT knowing dao?
I don't know what you know; I don't know what you don't know; I also don't know what "ha ha" joke you are referring to; heck, I don't even know what exactly you were trying to say in the last part of that sentance


Your post sure is confusing-
I am sorry; what part specifically did you find confusing, so that I can try to clear it up for you?


have you read this part of DDJ:
"Sincere words are not fine; fine words are not sincere. Those who are skilled (in the Tao) do not dispute (about it); the disputatious are not skilled in it. Those who know (the Tao) are not extensively learned; the extensively learned do not know it."
yes;


This passage seems to suggest that you've confused knowing the Dao with knowing about daoism. But who knows?
the passage isn't "suggesting" anything in relation to me specifically, you on the other hand are attempting to use it to "suggest" it, which is rather disingenuous of you in general; look, you asked me (albeit sarcastically) to "elucidate" on the particular passage you posted originally; so I did; however, you didn't ask me to say anything about my own personal experience w/"the Dao", and therefore, with the exception of mentioning chocolate ice cream, I pretty confined my "explanation" to a more intellectual analysis of the text; in fact, it's rather inappropriate to draw any conclusions about my own personal level of understanding based on that, since that sort of analysis won't give one much clue as to what my personal experience is; on that note, I don't know why you are so interested in this, except that you seem intent on trying to trip me up on this whole topic, "suggesting" that as I have provided some intellectual analysis, that I also I consider myself to be all-knowing as regards "the Dao"? if that's the case, then rest assured, that I have no clear understanding about "the Dao" whatsoever; how about you?

[Scott R. Brown]

How does condescension demonstrate ones familiarity with Tao?

[taai gihk yahn]

How does condescension demonstrate ones familiarity with Tao?

oh, like you know anything about it...


(how was that?)

[Scott R. Brown]

oh, like you know anything about it...


(how was that?)

Who said I know anything at all?:p I was just asking a simple question to the expert on Tao who condescends to others by referring to them as "son"!:)

[Lucas]

dont make me take my tao and go home, cuz i will, ill turn this baby right around and no one will get to go to the party !

SON!(Z)

[Scott R. Brown]

dont make me take my tao and go home, cuz i will, ill turn this baby right around and no one will get to go to the party !

SON!(Z)

:p:p:p:p:p:p

[taai gihk yahn]

Who said I know anything at all?:p I was just asking a simple question to the expert on Tao who condescends to others by referring to them as "son"!:)
maybe he "knows" something that I don't ;)

maybe he'll leave me something in his will also, given his expressed paternal feelings!


dont make me take my tao and go home, cuz i will, ill turn this baby right around and no one will get to go to the party !
SON!(Z)
jeez dad, yer no fun at all!!! :mad:

[Scott R. Brown]

maybe he'll leave me something in his will also, given his expressed paternal feelings!

Ohhhhhhhh! I get it. (wink, wink)

So what are you leaving me...

Dad?:D

[taai gihk yahn]

Anyone? Anyone? Anyone? (http://www.naturesongs.com/cricket1.wav)

[tianshanwhy]

it's because you lack Dao

You should keep ur private jokes private. Use PM- then you and your buddies can have ur giggles and you won't come off as condescending twit.
Win/Win
-TS?

[lkfmdc]

I'm new to this thread but I'm just assuming Taai Gihk once again deconstructed a clueless troll with logic and so now he's a "twit", right? :rolleyes:

[tianshanwhy]

yeah, but not to you, "pops"; you, OTOH, jumped on it

I couldn’t have “jumped on it” if you didn’t put it there. You used it to follow up your condescending tirade which was clearly directed towards me. I noticed how you have since edited post but you forgot chronology gives you away. You put a quote from me on the post that came AFTER your dao “joke”. You seem to be suffering from short term memory loss.


started in w/all the Dr. Dao (which, btw, I like - notice I've appropriated it!) references and quoting canon...

Your welcome! First ones free.


I have studied it on both on the collegiate level and on my own subsequent to that, including rudimentary attempts at translation of the first chapter under guidance of my teacher; so I have some knowledge of the subject…

Sure am proud of ya! Does Lao Zi recommend learning about Dao at university? Your joke (remember? The one about ‘lacking the dao’) didn’t say he doesn’t know about Daoism, it said ‘lacks the dao’. Do you understand the difference yet?


yes and no; it is, like all things, an aspect of it, but formal training in daoist classics is certainly not required for a direct appreciation of Dao; but isn't that obvious? I'm surprised you are asking that question; or wait, maybe it's your way of intimating that because I can engage in an intellectual assessment of daoism that I necessarily don't know "the Dao" directly? is that it?

Actually Taai the correct answer is a flat out ‘no’. Its not the same at all period. In fact the quotes I supplied for you juxtaposed with your own words clearly demonstrates that Lao Zi had people like you in mind when he wrote those words. If you can’t see that its because your vanity is blinding you.


I don't know what you know; I don't know what you don't know; I also don't know what "ha ha" joke you are referring to; heck, I don't even know what exactly you were trying to say in the last part of that sentance

This is symptom of short term memory loss. Maybe this quote of yours will help refresh memory:
“actually, that comment was based on a running joke”


I am sorry; what part specifically did you find confusing, so that I can try to clear it up for you?

That’s ok. I had to use toothpicks to keep my eyes open reading your last boring speech. I just can’t pretend to be interested in your regurgitation of some college lesson. Anyway it has nothing to do with subject of thread, and as you said, it was supposed to be a ‘joke’ anyway. So you may save it for someone who may be impressed.

[taai gihk yahn]

You should keep ur private jokes private. Use PM- then you and your buddies can have ur giggles and you won't come off as condescending twit.
Win/Win
-TS?

or you could just blow it out yer ear - and that's a prescription from Dr Dao!

[lkfmdc]

I couldn’t have “jumped on it” if you didn’t put it there. You used it to follow up your condescending tirade which was clearly directed towards me. I noticed how you have since edited post but you forgot chronology gives you away. You put a quote from me on the post that came AFTER your dao “joke”. You seem to be suffering from short term memory loss.



something about this paranoid, nonsensical, illogical rant seems familiar? Is this the banned person's new screen name? :rolleyes:

[tianshanwhy]

How does condescension demonstrate ones familiarity with Tao?

Amazing! First of all never said I was familiar with 'dao'. If you remember it was Taai who was saying that I lack Dao (whatever that means). Remember he used his little joke to follow up his condescending speech directed towards me? Remember the one where he lashed out at me like jealous step sister? The one where between insults he kept granting permission to me like internet overlord. The one where he misquoted me to try win kudos from his internet buddies. Remember? And you have the nerve to say I'm condescending because I called him 'son'? It's a term of endearment!
Wow I can see who butters your bread Scott! Buttery spread
-TS?

[tianshanwhy]

or you could just blow it out yer ear

Oh no you dih-ent girl!

[lkfmdc]

tianshanwhy has not made any friends yet


gee, I wonder why :rolleyes:

[Scott R. Brown]

Wow...some one's got his panties in a bunch!:eek:

Blah Blah Butter.....blah blah taai...blah blah whine, sniffle, whimper, whine sniffle...blah blah blah....Dao....blah.....Lao Zi.....blah blah whine, whimper, Joe Dunphy....blah, blah, sniffle, Dao, Scott, taai, sniffle, whine,...........tainshanwhine-whimper-whine,.....whimper, whine sniffle,.... whyne.......Why........WHY????:eek:

P.S. All this started over an inside joke YOU didn't get. This is a board of more or less comrades who browse around. It is like a club or a clique. If you interject yourself into the clique without understanding the social ground rules that is on you, NOT on those who have been here for years!

Worry about your own arrogance before you concern yourself with your "presumed" arrogance of others!

[taai gihk yahn]

I noticed how you have since edited post but you forgot chronology gives you away. You put a quote from me on the post that came AFTER your dao “joke”. You seem to be suffering from short term memory loss.
LOL, gramps, I think that you need to consider getting screened for dementia, because you seem to be suffering from basic coherence loss; I mean, honestly, at first I had no idea what you were talking about, because you didn't provide a direct reference to which post you were citing, and so I went looking for the post where I allegedly moved a quote of yours from a later post to an earlier one; but I couldn't find one; and that makes sense, because I never did that; and it was then that I realized that the quote you are referring to ("I will learn your ways"), was one that I added it to my SIGNATURE tag, not to the post you are referring to; meaning that it's going to show up at the bottom of every post I have ever made; also meaning that you are an idiot for confusing the two; and what's more, it makes you look like a total schmuck for gloating about how you "noticed" how I apparently edited my post and how I "forgot" that it would show up that I did that, and how I must have memory loss, when in fact, it was you who completely misunderstood the difference between a sig tag and the body of the post; oh, the IRONY!!!

anyway, you know, after the above debacle, I thought, "nah, he couldn't get any more stupid, could he?"; well, looks like you proved me wrong there, because (and I added the bold for emphasis):

If you remember it was Taai who was saying that I lack Dao (whatever that means). Remember he used his little joke to follow up his condescending speech directed towards me?
are you for real?
you can't be; no one is that stupid;
you think I was telling you that you lacked Dao? really?

whats tian shan pai? whos joe dunphy??
my balls itch

it's because you lack Dao
soooo, ummmm, I don't really know how to explain this but...um, you can clearly see that it wasn't directed towards you, right? I mean, I even explained that to you here when I wrote:

actually, that comment was based on a running joke between bawang and I that we have been kicking back and forth over several threads, derrr;
so, you're just joking around, right? you're really not that stupid, are you?


Remember the one where he lashed out at me like jealous step sister?
you know, maybe down in Inbred Jed land where you come from that metaphor makes sense; but for the rest of the country, it's just disturbing...


The one where between insults he kept granting permission to me like internet overlord.
oh please, get the sand out of your panties and stop acting like a whiny little biotch already! I wasn't "granting" you permission and you know it - you know very well that I was making it clear that I didn't care if you were trashing Dunphy per se; but then you started all up w/the "oh, thank you for your permission" smarm; and now you are trying to use your own douche-bagedness to whine even more? man, no wonder you are getting banned all over the internet!


The one where he misquoted me to try win kudos from his internet buddies.
you're joking right? "kudos from my internet buddies"? no, really, you're joking - I mean, you can't be that stu...oh wait, that's right; you are that stupid...


Remember? And you have the nerve to say I'm condescending because I called him 'son'? It's a term of endearment!
not that I care, but it's obviously anything but that, gramps


Wow I can see who butters your bread Scott! Buttery spread
you know, I suggest you stop posting here until you and your multi-disciplinary team of health-care professionals can figure out the correct therapeutic levels for all you various meds; then, when you do post, try not sitting so close to the open cans of paint thinner that your dad has been storing in the basement;

I tell you, anyone reading this thread is probably going to sign right up at Dunphy's school, because based on the display you've put on here, they'll most likely figure that any opinion you have of him must be diametrically opposed to what he's like in reality...

[taai gihk yahn]

something about this paranoid, nonsensical, illogical rant seems familiar? Is this the banned person's new screen name? :rolleyes:
no, I think he's a whole new kind of stupid...


gee, I wonder why :rolleyes:
well, he's made your acquaintance now; and I'm sure it's only a matter of time before he starts behaving like the racist he doesn't even know he is...

[Scott R. Brown]

Amazing! First of all never said I was familiar with 'dao'.

Nice try tianshanwhine...if you presume to criticize others using lines from Lao Tzu regardless that you clearly don’t understand them, it implies you THINK you know something about Tao and more than the person whom you presume to critique.

The fact you misunderstand the meaning of the lines you have quoted demonstrates you don't know what you are talking about! The fact you foolishly tried to use them against your betters demonstrates you THINK you know more than those you criticize.

The fact you continue to make misinformed statements demonstrates you are unaware of your own foolishness, and reeks of your own arrogance.


If you remember it was Taai who was saying that I lack Dao (whatever that means).

It was a joke and everyone knew it was a joke but you, because you came into an environment with social norms you are completely unfamiliar with.

Think of it like going into a bar for the first time. The locals don't know you, but they know each other. If you mouth off in the bar you will get your a$$ handed to you. The more you mouth off the more you will be hassled and ostracized.

When you walk into another man's local hang out for the first time, stand around and get the lay of the land if you wish to get along with the locals. If you don't care about getting along, if you don't care about the the local customs, the social norms of that environment, then you get what you asked for and you WILL be considered arrogant.

The fact you automatically took it for an insult speaks more about you than it does about Taai. It is a reflection of the chip you carry on your shoulder, which was apparent from your very first post. It is you who have projected your poor attitude on to others here. You were just called out on it and you don't like it!

That is fine, you don't have to like and you have the right to stand up for your feelings on the matter, but when you pretend knowledge or understanding you must be able to defend it using your own independent experience and brain, referring to lines from Lao Tzu, you clearly don't, understand makes you fair game for those that do understand them.


Remember he used his little joke to follow up his condescending speech directed towards me? Remember the one where he lashed out at me like jealous step sister? The one where between insults he kept granting permission to me like internet overlord. The one where he misquoted me to try win kudos from his internet buddies. Remember?

You mean the one where he took you to the shed for your poor attitude? For the record I do not agree with taai’s opinion about your first post. I think it is okay what you did, but he has the right to call you on the carpet for it too. The fact he does not agree with you is what bothers you. If you truly had pure intent from the start then who cares what anyone else thinks about it. Just because you are impressed with your own good intentions and think your comments are boon to the martial arts community does not mean others care what you think. The fact you insist that others should care reflects more of your own arrogance.

Do you think people here have to agree with you and your assessment of events and your good intentions?

In the real life of ideas you must be able to defend your position against challenges using reason, not pathetic references to lines from Lao Tzu you don’t understand!


And you have the nerve to say I'm condescending because I called him 'son'? It's a term of endearment!

Another nice try! It was meant to be condescending and you know it! You take issue with someone, condescend to him, and then try to tell everyone that you have endearing feeling for him? Get real!

If you presume to be superior then take the high road and act like the adult you pretend to be!


Wow I can see who butters your bread Scott! Buttery spread
-TS?

Just my point, a child pretending to be an adult!

[Scott R. Brown]

For your own edification tianshanwhine, observe the following reparte as it plays out...

HEY taai j3rk 0ff yawn,

You ain't got no TAO man, and neither does your little dog Toto!!!:eek:

Wait......Wait......Waaaiit for iiiiiiit..........:D

[lkfmdc]

no, I think he's a whole new kind of stupid...

well, he's made your acquaintance now; and I'm sure it's only a matter of time before he starts behaving like the racist he doesn't even know he is...

dear lord, what an accurate prediction, you should see the crap that I had to clean out of my inbox....

is this forum linked to the KKK national website or something :rolleyes:

[taai gihk yahn]

The "lack of who" Lao-tzu was is difficult enough to understand,

all depends on the "who" that is trying to understand it...perhaps it is best not to abide in clarity...

[Scott R. Brown]

all depends on the "who" that is trying to understand it...perhaps it is best not to abide in clarity...

Then where shall one abide?

[taai gihk yahn]

Then where shall one abide?

Who is asking?

[David Jamieson]

this one.

or that one.

no difference.

[taai gihk yahn]

this one.

or that one.

no difference.

but to say "this" and "that", surely there must be...

[Scott R. Brown]

Who is asking?

The "who/it" you advised not to abide in clarity!

[lkfmdc]

Attention bigots and racists, if you intend to throw around insults, please use the correct word!

A "kite" is something on a string that children play with when there are breezes :rolleyes:

[taai gihk yahn]

The "who/it" you advised not to abide in clarity!

How can it say anything at all?

[Scott R. Brown]

How can it say anything at all?

LOL!! You said it! Who said anything about IT saying anything?

So ask yourself, "How did YOU say it?"

Do you mean who are YOU? That is a question YOU will have to answer.

But you advised: "perhaps it is best not to abide in clarity."

Who is doing the abiding?? According to your comment, apparently IT is! I am not too concerned with just what IT is, at the moment, because from the context of the comment it appears you are referring to persons in general.

I am concerned with where IT shall abide if "IT is best not to abide in clarity"?

[taai gihk yahn]

LOL!! You said it! Who said anything about IT saying anything?
it seemed as if you were asking about where to abide; if it wasn't you asking, who was it?


So ask yourself, "How did YOU say it?"
the one who said it isn't here anymore, so it couldn't have been me


Do you mean who are YOU? That is a question YOU will have to answer.
it seems that the one who asks the question is not the same one who answers it...


But you advised: "perhaps it is best not to abide in clarity."
idle musing more than advice, really


Who is doing the abiding?? According to your comment, apparently IT is! I am not too concerned with just what IT is, at the moment, because from the context of the comment it appears you are referring to persons in general.

I am concerned with where IT shall abide if "IT is best not to abide in clarity"?
what is the nature of the space in between clarity and confusion? right and wrong? silence and speech? life and death? can one live in that interplay between extremes? if we do not dare to conceive of it beforehand, how will we know it if we get there?

[Scott R. Brown]

it seemed as if you were asking about where to abide; if it wasn't you asking, who was it?

I understand the confusion. Language is so imprecise that misunderstandings do occur. I see that the misunderstanding is continuing so I will try to be more precise.

You have stated that “perhaps it is best not to abide in clarity!”

It, being the subject, is being advised to perhaps not abide in clarity because another condition of being is preferable. This not-abiding is stated to perhaps be best! Best means that the condition of not-abiding is preferable to the condition of abiding. In order to abide there must be not-abide or one cannot be said to abide anywhere at all. One arises with the other!

The assertion that one condition of being is BETTER, as indicated by the use of the adjective best, than the other condition of being further establishes a contrast between the two conditions of abiding and not-abiding.

According to the context of the comment made then, there are at least two conditions of being It may choose from, 1) abiding in clarity or 2) not-abiding in clarity.

If It is abiding in a condition of clarity, and It leaves that condition of being, that is It no longer abides in clarity, it must leave abiding in clarity for another condition of being. It must abide somewhere else! It was once abiding in clarity, and now It is not! If It is not abiding in clarity, then where is It abiding?

If It leaves one condition of being It must, by definition, enter into another condition of being or It could not abide anywhere in the first place. What is that second condition of being that It shall abide in if It does not abide in clarity?


the one who said it isn't here anymore, so it couldn't have been me

If the one who said it is no longer present then there has been no abiding. If there has been no abiding then why concern ourselves with abiding or not-abiding since no abiding has occurred to begin with?


idle musing more than advice, really

I see, a clever way to avoid stating just what you meant. I get it! ;);)

But...the statement appears to have meant something regardless of whether it was idle musings or sound advice. I wonder what you "meant" to say?

Or rather, since you were apparently not present when the original comment was posted, what idea, concept or principle was the comment meant to communicate?:)

And what does the you that is present at this moment, the one reading these comments, believe it was meant to communicate?:D

And, of course, Where is It abiding when It is not abiding in clarity?


what is the nature of the space in between clarity and confusion? right and wrong? silence and speech? life and death? can one live in that interplay between extremes? if we do not dare to conceive of it beforehand, how will we know it if we get there?

Is there space between clarity and confusion, right and wrong, silence and speech, life and death?

If there is space between these contrasting principles, then there MUST be a different condition of being that It will find itself in when It is not abiding in clarity! If this is so, then please answer where does It abide when It does not abide in clarity?

If there is no space between there are no mutually interdependent principles on which to rely, there is no clarity, and no abiding occurs!

If no clarity or abiding occurs there is no need to be concerned with abiding or not abiding, much less clarity!:eek: