REAL Kung Fu video?

[Hardwork108]

This video clip is the first part of an old French documentary about Alan Lee's Northern Shaolin kung fu school. It seems that he has been teaching kung fu in New York since the late 60's.

Does anyone know of this school? Or Grand Master Alan Lee?
Can anyone comment on his reputation?

Another interesting aspect of this video is that the students spar using kung fu techniques rather than kickboxing ones, seen so often in Mckung fu schools, nowadays.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Dw88fw6lXA

[Lokhopkuen]

The legend continues.
Thanks for sharing.

[Hardwork108]

The legend continues.
Thanks for sharing.

Wow!

Is that your school?

Your signature describes the type of movements that one can see in that documentary.

[David Jamieson]

This video clip is the first part of an old French documentary about Alan Lee's Northern Shaolin kung fu school. It seems that he has been teaching kung fu in New York since the late 60's.

Does anyone know of this school? Or Grand Master Alan Lee?
Can anyone comment on his reputation?

Another interesting aspect of this video is that the students spar using kung fu techniques rather than kickboxing ones, seen so often in Mckung fu schools, nowadays.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Dw88fw6lXA

So you thought that was good sparring?

[golden arhat]

how anyone can view this as good is beyond me.


once again HW

YOU DO NOT HAVE AUTHORITY OVER WHAT IS REAL AND WHAT ISNT REAL KUNG FU. K?

[cerebus]

Heh, heh, looked like they were going all "capoeira" on each other near the end... :D

[cerebus]

Wonder what Mr. Ross thinks of Alan Lee... ?

[Hardwork108]

So you thought that was good sparring?

The thread's title is not a statement but asks that question. However, I will say that at least they are using kung fu techniques and stances and not glorified kickboxing ones. Also it seems to be controlled sparring without certain types of contact.

All in all when one looks at this one sees kung fu rather than the more common kickboxing techniques one sees in the pseudo kung fu schools so prevalent nowadays.

[Hardwork108]

how anyone can view this as good is beyond me.


once again HW

YOU DO NOT HAVE AUTHORITY OVER WHAT IS REAL AND WHAT ISNT REAL KUNG FU. K?

Read my answer to David Jamieson's post before you make an even bigger a$$ of yourself. Then you can go to your MMA gym and ground fight with your fellow knuckleheads!:rolleyes:

[Hardwork108]

Wonder what Mr. Ross thinks of Alan Lee... ?

Unfortunately what Mr Ross thinks does not matter as Mr Ross is a glorified kickboxer whose only purpose in these forums is to sell his MMA classes and the accompanying dvds. He wouldn't know real kung fu if it fell on his head, inspite of who his teacher was.;)

Of course, there are many knuckleheads and meat heads here who would not agree with me but then that is no surprise.

Perhaps some authentic kung fu sifus, meaning REAL ones, can give their opinions.:)

[David Jamieson]

All in all when one looks at this one sees kung fu rather than the more common kickboxing techniques one sees in the pseudo kung fu schools so prevalent nowadays.


Kungfu is not posing. It is entering, using optimum tactics and finishing.

making long stances, jumping about and posing are highly ineffective and are NOT kungfu by any stretch.

this is a fundamental problem with the idea of what is kungfu fighting or using chinese martial arts to fight.

If I enter, and punch straight to the jaw and bypass any crane posture etal, then my kungfu is good because it did what it was supposed to do inasmuch as I attained victory through action.

IN essence, that video showed a bit of training methdology (the stance work, meditation) but the beach scenes were utter nonsense and completely unrelated to martial arts.

If you want to use kungfu in a fight then it doesn't have to look like a technique from a textbook, it has to be effective and use the most direct lines of attack and not waste a lot of energy in doing so. THAT is good kungfu.

I disagree that it shows kungfu in fighting, it doesn't,. it shows a bunch of garbage.

you need to understand combat better if you think mma is bad. NOthing is bad if it is effective and if you can step up and win a fight with cranes beak plucking, then by all means step up! Otherwise there's no point in dissing another line of practice that to date has trashed many a style and made their practitioners look like ragdolls and children being tossed about by an angry uncle.

Take the kungfu and make it work and get OUT of teh mindset of thought boxing.

It's the only way that kungfu will advance. so long as we defend stupid methods and worthless tactics is as long as we ourselves drive kungfu into the ground and render it laughable and worthless.

That really really really needs to be understood.

In friendly dueling with no harm, lots of stylistic stuff looks great and is fun, but in reality and in visceral combat, simple = better.

[Lucas]

what are your thoughts on this video. dont know the rules, but i saw no head punches thrown, so i think it was only kicks to the head. the guy in red is cma

definately an old and circulated video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0CIy9ZZEQE)

[lkfmdc]

Jamieson,

This is your final warning :mad:

In the past few months we've agreed on Middle Eastern politics, western imperialism and lately even fighting

This madness has to end! :eek:

[David Jamieson]

what are your thoughts on this video. dont know the rules, but i saw no head punches thrown, so i think it was only kicks to the head. the guy in red is cma

definately an old and circulated video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0CIy9ZZEQE)

it's taekwondo.

good fight!

[Lucas]

well the one guy is tkd, but the other guy is cma, fighting a tdk guy.

but hey, its afghan, idk how it all works over there.

i did see an interview with the guy in red, he claims shaolin.

mainly, the point here is that im glad i can view youtube at work again. DOWN WITH THE MAN< BREAK ALL THE SENSORS!

[David Jamieson]

well the one guy is tkd, but the other guy is cma, fighting a tdk guy.

but hey, its afghan, idk how it all works over there.

i did see an interview with the guy in red, he claims shaolin.

yep, could be shaolin.

shaolin has a lot of kids. :)

definitely tkd ruleset or the guy in the red would have pounched him in teh face a few times, maybe went for a lock or two, but seemed to stick with the kicks mostly, in which case, it was tkd ruleset, ergo, tkd.

[Lucas]

yep, could be shaolin.

shaolin has a lot of kids. :)

definitely tkd ruleset or the guy in the red would have pounched him in teh face a few times, maybe went for a lock or two, but seemed to stick with the kicks mostly, in which case, it was tkd ruleset, ergo, tkd.

gotcha, and fully.

i got a good giggle when the tkd guy in white threw a few punches at the other guys mid section. they didnt seem to do anything at all.

[Lucas]

oh hey, you're going to love this one :p

everyone remembers this vid!

shaolin vs tkd (http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=2827573)

:D;):eek:

[David Jamieson]

gotcha, and fully.

i got a good giggle when the tkd guy in white threw a few punches at the other guys mid section. they didnt seem to do anything at all.

that's because he's weak like a little kitten.

:D

also tkd punches are pretty much non extant. they don't use em in the sport really except for points and they aren't really seriously trained at all. Having spent 4 years with tkd in my life, meh, what can ya do? Good kicks, the rest is not there.

[punchdrunk]

definately one of the funniest topics on this forum EVER.

[Hardwork108]

Kungfu is not posing. It is entering, using optimum tactics and finishing.[
I am fully aware of that but this was kwoon sparring and not a street fight or a UFC contest. As a result, there were many rules.


making long stances, jumping about and posing are highly ineffective

The ineffectiveness of posing I would agree with but the other aspects you generalised about all depend on the particular style/school's training methodology and mindset.

I personally believe that in a real fight those same people's would have been less exaggerated.


and are NOT kungfu by any stretch.
Generalization in the light of the fact that we are talking about light sparring and not real fighting.


this is a fundamental problem with the idea of what is kungfu fighting or using chinese martial arts to fight.

IMHO, the fundamental problem with people is that they think that TCMA fighting , no matter the style, should always look like kickboxing.


If I enter, and punch straight to the jaw and bypass any crane posture etal, then my kungfu is good because it did what it was supposed to do inasmuch as I attained victory through action.
Is your kung fu good if you are a boxer?


IN essence, that video showed a bit of training methdology (the stance work, meditation) but the beach scenes were utter nonsense and completely unrelated to martial arts.

Perhaps you should take that up with Adam Lee and who knows maybe he will ask you to be his sifu.


If you want to use kungfu in a fight then it doesn't have to look like a technique from a textbook,

I am fully aware of that but if you follow certain basic principles such as rooting and lets say the central line principle (in the case of Wing Chun), then your fighting should look different to kickboxing (hopping around back and forth throwing jabs, etc, for example).



it has to be effective and use the most direct lines of attack and not waste a lot of energy in doing so. THAT is good kungfu.

We are discussing the SPARRING of some kung fu students, here.


I disagree that it shows kungfu in fighting, it doesn't,. it shows a bunch of garbage.

I did not say that it showed kung fu fighting it shows a type of controlled kung fu sparring. However, and again, I have seen so called kung fu sparring that looked more like kickboxing or sports karate than kung fu. These guys looked kung fu.


you need to understand combat better if you think mma is bad.

You miss my point. Modern MMA is not "bad" but it is NOT kung fu!


NOthing is bad if it is effective and if you can step up and win a fight with cranes beak plucking, then by all means step up! Otherwise there's no point in dissing another line of practice that to date has trashed many a style and made their practitioners look like ragdolls and children being tossed about by an angry uncle.

Again, MMA is MMA and Kung fu is kung fu. MMA is good for those who like that mode of training just as kung fu is good for those who have chosen it as a path.

However, since we are in a kung fu forum, I take exception to having MMA shoved down my throat, in every other post, by knuckleheads who wouldn't know genuine authentic kung fu even if it fell on their thick skulls.


Take the kungfu and make it work and get OUT of teh mindset of thought boxing.
I can make my kung fu work using kung fu principles and methodology. I am hoping to improve on that, but not by joining the local MMA gym, but by exploring the internals.


It's the only way that kungfu will advance. so long as we defend stupid methods and worthless tactics is as long as we ourselves drive kungfu into the ground and render it laughable and worthless.
It should be apparent by now what my comments were referring to in this thread. By the way, the people who are running kung fu into the ground are the MMA-ists who post here in this forum with their clueless statements regarding authentic kung fu practice, not people like me!


That really really really needs to be understood.
Exactly!


In friendly dueling with no harm, lots of stylistic stuff looks great and is fun,
Knowing that then why did you demean and denegrade the sparring shown in that video?



but in reality and in visceral combat, simple = better.
As a Wing Chunner, I have more than a little familiarity with that concept, infact it has been drilled into every aspect of my training!

[Hardwork108]

definately one of the funniest topics on this forum EVER.

You must have missed Lkfmdc's thread, "Why I hate Traditionalists" LOL. I am still laughing at that one.LOL.

[cerebus]

I don't think the Alan Lee vid was bad at all. Yes, they do get a bit flamboyant with their hands, but at least in the kwoon fights they were going at it with decent contact for not having any sparring gear on. And some of the kicks were pretty solid.

There are a couple of advantages to the continuous hand movements, though I thought they got a bit TOO flowery with them. For one, if the hands are constantly in motion it can be harder for an opponent to see one's next hand strike coming. For another, with beginners at least, staying still can lead to tightening up and freezing. Constant movement can help them to stay relaxed and loose.

Alan Lee has been well-known in NY Chinatown for decades. If his shyt was fake, he probably wouldn't still be there. But that's just my opinion...

[Hardwork108]

I don't think the Alan Lee vid was bad at all. Yes, they do get a bit flamboyant with their hands, but at least in the kwoon fights they were going at it with decent contact for not having any sparring gear on. And some of the kicks were pretty solid.

There are a couple of advantages to the continuous hand movements, though I thought they got a bit TOO flowery with them. For one, if the hands are constantly in motion it can be harder for an opponent to see one's next hand strike coming. For another, with beginners at least, staying still can lead to tightening up and freezing. Constant movement can help them to stay relaxed and loose.

Alan Lee has been well-known in NY Chinatown for decades. If his shyt was fake, he probably wouldn't still be there. But that's just my opinion...

Very good points throughout.


Sparring is just that and it seems that these guys made some of their kung fu techniques work for them while sparring which is more than can be said for some of the modern kung fu-ists, such as many, including "sifus":rolleyes:, who post here, and are nothing but glorified kickboxers.
,

[Lucas]

also to keep that video in context...what was that 1975?

not that fighting is different in the 70s. just the conceptions and ideas people had about martial arts is very different now. i wonder what a video would look like today if the same teacher were to shoot a new one.

[golden arhat]

ughh i cant believe this is happening again.

point 1. you dont get to decide what is and isnt real or authentic or traditional etc.

point 2. people that disagree with you are not by default knuckleheads or glorified kickboxers

althoguht kickboxing is awesome and so is being glorified so the insult doesnt really apply


also in regard to what you said to DJ if you throw a straight right cross, is that NOT kung fu? just because it happens to be in every other art ever??

[lkfmdc]

Alan Lee has been well-known in NY Chinatown for decades. If his shyt was fake, he probably wouldn't still be there. But that's just my opinion...

aside from the fact that Lee's school was in midtown Manhattan, away from the Chinatown crowd, and that Lee never associated with the Chinatown people....

http://www.pakua.org/martialarts/martialarts.htm

This group is HUGE in NYC.. and it's one of a long list of complete crap schools in NY area

[cerebus]

Well, yes the "Pa Kua International" group is horrible. But why bring them up? Even if one's opinion of Alan Lee is less than stellar, there is no way his school is as bad as that...

[grasshopper 2.0]

I have to say this was very entertaining. I've never seen kung fu, unscripted like this yet have that "kung fu" flavour (at least what may be perceived as how kung fu should kinda be)

I think a good boxer is good kung fu. I think a good karateka is good kung fu. I think good kung fu is a good boxer.

When the fighters are good, the lines of martial art styles begin to blur. Sure there are certain differences and underlying characteristics, but I would say that the number of similarities start to increase - styles, particular elements of successful moves/strategies, start to resemble each other...

The body can move an infinite number of ways but I think there are certain options that make for a good punch or a good place to punch or strategy to set up the attacker and so on...and that means those that win favour these particular ways of moving so in the end, winning fighters may have a tendency to start looking similar

[Lokhopkuen]

Unfortunately what Mr Ross thinks does not matter as Mr Ross is a glorified kickboxer whose only purpose in these forums is to sell his MMA classes and the accompanying dvds. He wouldn't know real kung fu if it fell on his head, inspite of who his teacher was.;)

Of course, there are many knuckleheads and meat heads here who would not agree with me but then that is no surprise.

Perhaps some authentic kung fu sifus, meaning REAL ones, can give their opinions.:)

Actually David Ross was the long time disciple of a Traditional Gung Fu teacher from a long grand lineage. Life is long though, this week it's apples and next week it's papaya...

[Lokhopkuen]

I have to say this was very entertaining. I've never seen kung fu, unscripted like this yet have that "kung fu" flavour (at least what may be perceived as how kung fu should kinda be)

I think a good boxer is good kung fu. I think a good karateka is good kung fu. I think good kung fu is a good boxer.

When the fighters are good, the lines of martial art styles begin to blur. Sure there are certain differences and underlying characteristics, but I would say that the number of similarities start to increase - styles, particular elements of successful moves/strategies, start to resemble each other...

The body can move an infinite number of ways but I think there are certain options that make for a good punch or a good place to punch or strategy to set up the attacker and so on...and that means those that win favour these particular ways of moving so in the end, winning fighters may have a tendency to start looking similar

Well said Grasshoper2.0!




(((((((secretly I always wanted to call someone grasshopper! Oww goodie:D:p;):D:D:rolleyes:))))))))

[lkfmdc]

Well, yes the "Pa Kua International" group is horrible. But why bring them up? Even if one's opinion of Alan Lee is less than stellar, there is no way his school is as bad as that...

The claim was made that "If his shyt was fake, he probably wouldn't still be there" and so I put up Pa Kua because it is clearly fake crap yet continues to exist in NY, a city with a lot of legit CMA...

or, in other words, you can be a HUGE FAKE and still run a school for years, I might, forgive me for saying this, suggest that if you are Asian it is even easier because some people automatically think if you are Asian you must be a "master"

I grew up doing Taekwondo with the most uncoordinated korean kid the world has ever known. He was the joke of the school. But, being he is Korean, he is now "Grandmaster Chong" and has a pretty large school in the suburbs

[cerebus]

The claim was made that "If his shyt was fake, he probably wouldn't still be there" and so I put up Pa Kua because it is clearly fake crap yet continues to exist in NY, a city with a lot of legit CMA...

or, in other words, you can be a HUGE FAKE and still run a school for years, I might, forgive me for saying this, suggest that if you are Asian it is even easier because some people automatically think if you are Asian you must be a "master"

I grew up doing Taekwondo with the most uncoordinated korean kid the world has ever known. He was the joke of the school. But, being he is Korean, he is now "Grandmaster Chong" and has a pretty large school in the suburbs


Ah, I see. But "Pa Kua International" has only been around in recent years. Alan Lee started in the 60s (I believe), when inter-school fights and challenges still took place. Would someone not have called Lee on it if he were fake?

I have heard quite alot about Lee and his school over the years, and seen a fair number of articles in the old 70s Kung Fu magazines about him. Everything I had heard was quite positive. Do you have some information which might've been kept out of the public for obvious reasons?

[Hardwork108]

Actually David Ross was the long time disciple of a Traditional Gung Fu teacher from a long grand lineage.

Yes I know about Dave's history with CTS.

Ross is not alone as there are other knucklehead glorified kickboxers here who have apparently studied under traditional sifus.

Unfortunately, many of them have not learnt what they have been taught (including the moral aspects) -assuming their sifus trusted them enough to teach them the authentic stuff - resulting in them "evolving" into MMA-ists, which in itself is not wrong, except for the fact that they bad mouth the traditional arts for their own agendas and marketing purposes.


Life is long though, this week it's apples and next week it's papaya...

And that fact puts Ross's credibility as a traditionalist, hence his self serving criticisms in the dust bin.

Furthermore, it seems that nowadays and as far as Ross is concerned, there is a better market ($$$$$$) for papaya then apples.;) :)

[Hardwork108]

point 1. you dont get to decide what is and isnt real or authentic or traditional etc.
I have enough training to differentiate between the real and not real. Whereas you haven't!


point 2. people that disagree with you are not by default knuckleheads or glorified kickboxers
No they are not, except for the ones who are MMA-ists who linger here in the KUNG FU forums to push their "MMA is best" agenda, be it for financial or egotistical reasons.

I believe that I am talking about you, as well as some of your prominent knucklehead friends, here in the forum.


althoguht kickboxing is awesome
It is awesome for those who practice it, hence they should go and post their wisdom in some kickboxing forum. This is a kung fu forum!


and so is being glorified so the insult doesnt really apply
You misunderstand (as usual), glorified refers to those who are nothing but kickboxers or MMA-ists who may have had some so called "kung fu" training among the other dozen or so MAs in their curriculum, who go on to criticise kung fu using their "kung fu experience" as a reference to give credibility to their idiotic comments.



also in regard to what you said to DJ if you throw a straight right cross, is that NOT kung fu? just because it happens to be in every other art ever??
It all depends on the art one is practicing.

Is a boxing uppercut Kung fu as well? How about a kung fu hook, is that boxing?LOL!

[Lokhopkuen]

Hey here is a demo I did recently.
Is it real gung fu?
I don't know but I do know I have tons of fun practicing and teaching.

For me that's what its all about.:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROUeRhNJdTU

Feel free to be as nasty and critical as you want:rolleyes:

[taai gihk yahn]

http://www.pakua.org/martialarts/martialarts.htm
This group is HUGE in NYC.. and it's one of a long list of complete crap schools in NY area
the Pa Kua people are reprehensible; and international; I don't know which is worse...

I went to visit one once, and asked them about sword classes; they were very quick to tell me that one of their 'high level" black belts was in town teaching sword at that time; I asked about taking a private lesson w/him; they were very enthusiastic about this until I mentioned I had about 20 years experience in MA and w/blades of various types, and they lost interest and basically shooed me out the door;


aside from the fact that Lee's school was in midtown Manhattan, away from the Chinatown crowd, and that Lee never associated with the Chinatown people....
A lot of different opinions about Lee; he has always been widely known for having a cohort of "hardcore" African-American muslim students who basically drilled tam teui for 20+ years (make of that one you will); otherwise, my personal understanding is that he has a proclivity for the use throwing darts laced w/home-made toxic substances, in regards to his personal choice of defensive weaponry, and evidently is rather skilled in the use thereof (I may be wrong, of course, it is simply what I have been told, one may take it or leave it);

[Lokhopkuen]

the Pa Kua people are reprehensible; and international; I don't know which is worse...

I went to visit one once, and asked them about sword classes; they were very quick to tell me that one of their 'high level" black belts was in town teaching sword at that time; I asked about taking a private lesson w/him; they were very enthusiastic about this until I mentioned I had about 20 years experience in MA and w/blades of various types, and they lost interest and basically shooed me out the door;


A lot of different opinions about Lee; he has always been widely known for having a cohort of "hardcore" African-American muslim students who basically drilled tam teui for 20+ years (make of that one you will); otherwise, my personal understanding is that he has a proclivity for the use throwing darts laced w/home-made toxic substances, in regards to his personal choice of defensive weaponry, and evidently is rather skilled in the use thereof (I may be wrong, of course, it is simply what I have been told, one may take it or leave it);


Kung Fu has a rather confused reputation due to in some part to the rather colorful people who practice it. I can relate being a little crazy and very eccentric. What the world has seen in most cases is various novice and mid level practitioners drunk and confused by the power of what they have learned. The one's that get really good at it become reclusive and levitate the f*ck outta this plane of existence.
Carradine?
Absent!
Bueller, Bueller?

[lkfmdc]

I know someone who spent maybe 8 years with Alan Lee. He did nothing but basics (horse stance, some punches, some kicks, some Tan Tui roads, basicly stuff you'd get in like 3 months in most schools). You do basics for 8 years, well, you will do them well

Apparently a Chinese kid (about 14) came in and was from the same region as Lee. Lee told him to "come in early" to "clean". Supposedly after a month or so the 14 year old kid was doing stuff the long time students had never seen so maybe Lee had something real, just showed fluff to the "rice bags"

[cerebus]

I know someone who spent maybe 8 years with Alan Lee. He did nothing but basics (horse stance, some punches, some kicks, some Tan Tui roads, basicly stuff you'd get in like 3 months in most schools). You do basics for 8 years, well, you will do them well

Apparently a Chinese kid (about 14) came in and was from the same region as Lee. Lee told him to "come in early" to "clean". Supposedly after a month or so the 14 year old kid was doing stuff the long time students had never seen so maybe Lee had something real, just showed fluff to the "rice bags"

Hm. Well... I suppose there's something to be said for basics, but yeah that seems a bit excessive. But the people in the clips (the Alan Lee clips) looked like they'd done more than just Tan Tui. Tan Tui just isn't that flashy (at least not the Tan Tui I'm familiar with).

[lkfmdc]

to me the Alan Lee school demo clips are catering the lowest in popular (mis)conception about CMA... wave your hands around, do flowery movement, act cool, do some exotic looking movement, blah blah, add Asian master, repeat as necessary

[cerebus]

to me the Alan Lee school demo clips are catering the lowest in popular (mis)conception about CMA... wave your hands around, do flowery movement, act cool, do some exotic looking movement, blah blah, add Asian master, repeat as necessary

Perhaps, but isn't that how you feel about traditional Kung Fu in general? At least that was the impression I had.

[Hardwork108]

Apparently a Chinese kid (about 14) came in and was from the same region as Lee. Lee told him to "come in early" to "clean". Supposedly after a month or so the 14 year old kid was doing stuff the long time students had never seen so maybe Lee had something real, just showed fluff to the "rice bags"

Rather like CTS showed fluff to you and your fellow "rice bags"?

So at least we are leaning towards Lee being legit and that ironically, thanks to you!

[Lokhopkuen]

I know someone who spent maybe 8 years with Alan Lee. He did nothing but basics (horse stance, some punches, some kicks, some Tan Tui roads, basicly stuff you'd get in like 3 months in most schools). You do basics for 8 years, well, you will do them well

Apparently a Chinese kid (about 14) came in and was from the same region as Lee. Lee told him to "come in early" to "clean". Supposedly after a month or so the 14 year old kid was doing stuff the long time students had never seen so maybe Lee had something real, just showed fluff to the "rice bags"

This is not the first time I've heard stuff like this. Ah racism:rolleyes:

[cerebus]

Who were Alan Lee's teachers?

[golden arhat]

I have enough training to differentiate between the real and not real. Whereas you haven't!



oh yes i forgot how many long years you have spent training :rolleyes:
just spending half my life doing traditional MA must not be enough i guess

there is no point giving you the time of day.

[golden arhat]

where is kansuke when you need him, haha:rolleyes:

[Lucas]

For me that's what its all about.:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROUeRhNJdTU



Dude, thats life !

for some of us its just part of who we are, and we love doing it. for me, love is reason enough. (cheesy enough?)

I can see your big ass grin through your whole demo :D

[Lokhopkuen]

Dude, thats life !

for some of us its just part of who we are, and we love doing it. for me, love is reason enough. (cheesy enough?)

I can see your big ass grin through your whole demo :D

My teacher says smiling gives the audience the wrong impression but I smile every time I compete in forms or fighting or demo.

As for the Alan Lee vid I found it entertaining and informative. I however was taught TCMA inna different fashion. We use less flower and more meat.;)

[Lucas]

smiling can have a great effect in a fight though. who wants to fight the guy that smiles and giggles when he hits you in the mouth? or even worse yet, when you hit him in the mouth and he cracks a grin.

:p

[Lokhopkuen]

Rather like CTS showed fluff to you and your fellow "rice bags"?

So at least we are leaning towards Lee being legit and that ironically, thanks to you!

ROTFLMAO:D:eek::rolleyes::D

[Yum Cha]

Dude, thats life !

for some of us its just part of who we are, and we love doing it. for me, love is reason enough. (cheesy enough?)

I can see your big ass grin through your whole demo :D


Amen brother!

Luk hop Kuen, I do a warm up very similar to your spinning exercise, so close its funny. I use it to get some blood flowing after a bit of stretching. Try throwing in the behind the back, over the head spin, like the one practised with 3 section staff to add a horizontal dimension.

[Yum Cha]

Fancy hands and embroidery legs.

BUT, taking it in an historical context, it was new, different and evolving, it was also a public demonstration with an objective. The sparring was class sparring, not cage fighting, and as thus, compared to say, Tae Kwon Do club sparring, it was perhaps a bit more interesting.

Big negative - no hands. Common foot techniques, little depth. Nothing scary.

Jamison made some good points.

The difference between a rubber practice knife and an edged blade is not in how you use them, but in the result.

[Lokhopkuen]

Amen brother!

Luk hop Kuen, I do a warm up very similar to your spinning exercise, so close its funny. I use it to get some blood flowing after a bit of stretching. Try throwing in the behind the back, over the head spin, like the one practised with 3 section staff to add a horizontal dimension.

I'm having trouble with the behind the back, over the head spin. I used to do it effortless then this strange block crept in. Oh yea old age:rolleyes:

[Hardwork108]

oh yes i forgot how many long years you have spent training :rolleyes:
Ask your punch drunk brain to lead your hand and mouse to my profile and then click.


just spending half my life doing traditional MA must not be enough i guess
Not if you were training in a Mcdojo!

And it seems that you know that already as you do not list your "traditional martial arts" experience in your profile....LOL.


there is no point giving you the time of day.

I would ask you to please start with simpler exercises such as clicking on my profile before burdening your fragile brain with demanding tasks such as reading a clock.

[Yum Cha]

I'm having trouble with the behind the back, over the head spin. I used to do it effortless then this strange block crept in. Oh yea old age:rolleyes:

LOL! Yea, what are you 35?? 40?

[Lokhopkuen]

LOL! Yea, what are you 35?? 40?

50 point ten and counting.

[Yum Cha]

50 point ten and counting.

Good on ya old son!

I had to re-check out the video.....fair enough.

I still got a year on ya!

[golden arhat]

Not if you were training in a Mcdojo!



and you know that the various MA i studied were mcdojo's then yes?
pray tell how you came to that conclusion without me telling you.

[Hardwork108]

and you know that the various MA i studied were mcdojo's then yes?
pray tell how you came to that conclusion without me telling you.

Ok lets put it this way. Either you studied at Mcdojos or you are not ready to train the TCMAs in any serious manner, even if you were exposed to the real stuff.

Also because of my interaction with you in the past plus the fact that you seem to be clueless about TCMAs and their functionality AND that you don't even mention them in your profile leads me to only one conclusion.

[golden arhat]

Ok lets put it this way. Either you studied at Mcdojos or you are not ready to train the TCMAs in any serious manner, even if you were exposed to the real stuff.

Also because of my interaction with you in the past plus the fact that you seem to be clueless about TCMAs and their functionality AND that you don't even mention them in your profile leads me to only one conclusion.

it used to be back in the day, but since then i have been practising other things.

and wait OH YES another baseless statement, the very fact that you know zilch about me should stop you form making comments such as that.


like i said before. WITHOUT SHOWING WHO YOU ARE AND YOUR SKILL AND EXPERIENCE YOU DONT HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO COMMENT ON ANYONE ELSE.


YOU DONT DECIDE WHAT IS AND ISNT REAL GET OVER IT.

[Hardwork108]

it used to be back in the day, but since then i have been practising other things.

That means you are, as your profile says, an MMA-ist.

Wait a minute, on second thoughts let me see, you have about ten years of experience in probably about half a dozen styles and you are about 19 years old.

Yep by this forum's standard you are already a Great Grand Master of kung fu/MMA.:rolleyes:


and wait OH YES another baseless statement, the very fact that you know zilch about me should stop you form making comments such as that.
Your profile, presumably written by you, says that you are an MMA-ist. What else is there to know, except perhaps maybe the reason why you insist posting in a kung fu forum?



like i said before. WITHOUT SHOWING WHO YOU ARE AND YOUR SKILL AND EXPERIENCE YOU DONT HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO COMMENT ON ANYONE ELSE.
Well I know plenty about your TCMA knowledge, or lack of, by just looking at your profile. Perhaps if you look at my profile while doing your best to use your brain, then you will get a better idea about me.

It would also help you to actually read my posts on kung fu subjects such as chisao and the internals, etc. That is if you manage to do that without your head exploding.



YOU DONT DECIDE WHAT IS AND ISNT REAL GET OVER IT.

Of course I don't. I just call it the way I see it.;)

[Indy]

I read through this thread re: the video. I'm going to make some broad comments because most of what I've been reading really does not understand the training methods of the school or what they are doing.

I've been training at Alan Lee's school for the past 9 years. Prior to that, I have had moderate experience in Aikido, Wing Chun and Karate.

When this video surfaced, it was rather interesting for us, as members of the school, to watch because of the similarities as to how the lesson plan has transferred over the years.

The school trains slow in order to build a basic foundation of knowledge and ability. Personally, I would rather know one or two techniques very good, and have my body conditioned to use them without thinking rather than pick up 60 techniques in 2 months and not be able to use them all.

For the person who spoke re: Asian favoritism, that is really just hearsay. The school is very diverse racially and people who 'get' the lesson quickly, usually progress faster. It is also about how much effort you place into it.

The system that is taught is complete and does the external kicking and striking techniques, but also the meditation and healing aspects. In the video, you are seeing different kinds of fighting. The initial part is a form of shadow boxing that we do, then you see paired fighting done slow in order to master technique. Later in the video you see a form called Ging Kong which is used for body conditioning and breaking on the body. You also see various discipline techniques that we use.

The school itself is non-profit. No one draws a salary and all the instructors who teach there are there to promote Chinese martial arts solely.

As with any martial art, the harder you train, the better you will be. What differentiates Alan Lee's school is the indirect stepping which in part makes the fighting look choreographed (I can assure you it is not and we hit very hard).

So I'm not going to get into a ****ing match as to whether or not my school is real or not, but it is a very traditional martial arts school that teaches a complete lesson and the people in it are quite good. I think to the person making the derogatory comments instead of simply commenting on hearsay you should take the time to actually research a system. If you have questions about the video or the system please ask.

For current information on the school the web site is www.kungfuwusu.org.

Cheers!

[David Jamieson]

Why is your school called a "temple".

Is it a religious organization? Do they initiate and ordain monks and priests there?

[Lucas]

I always have utmost respect for schools that operate as a non profit.

thats; 'putting your money where your mouth is' so to speak.

[lkfmdc]

I've been training at Alan Lee's school for the past 9 years. Prior to that, I have had moderate experience in Aikido, Wing Chun and Karate.



So, for the record, you have no CMA experience to compare it against




The school trains slow in order to build a basic foundation of knowledge and ability. Personally, I would rather know one or two techniques very good, and have my body conditioned to use them without thinking rather than pick up 60 techniques in 2 months and not be able to use them all.



basics are good, blah blah
but people in your school aren't learning 60 techniques in six years...




For the person who spoke re: Asian favoritism, that is really just hearsay.



it was the DIRECT EXPERIENCE of guy who had been at Alan Lee's for years (and who are NOT there now, I wonder why)





The school itself is non-profit. No one draws a salary and all the instructors who teach there are there to promote Chinese martial arts solely.



and you know this to be a fact how?




As with any martial art, the harder you train, the better you will be. What differentiates Alan Lee's school is the indirect stepping which in part makes the fighting look choreographed (I can assure you it is not and we hit very hard).



The video hides that fact really well......




I think to the person making the derogatory comments instead of simply commenting on hearsay you should take the time to actually research a system.



I've been doing martial arts more than three decades, been in the Mo Lam for a good part of that time... Ever consider that? :rolleyes:

[Indy]

Why is your school called a "temple".

Is it a religious organization? Do they initiate and ordain monks and priests there?

No, not at all. The temple is non-sectarian. The terminology is meant to impart the dignity and respect for the place of training. It is a place of gathering for members of the community -- we definitely aren't cultish except in the fact that most of us are Kung Fu obsessive. I would add that Master Lee is an ordained Taoist priest but we definitely aren't religious.

[Indy]

So, for the record, you have no CMA experience to compare it against

As I said, I've taken Wing Chun and have been exposed to other styles at times -- most of the time (and maybe you'll agree with me on this) that fighters tend to do alot of stand up fighting and don't really employ the fundamentals of their system. Also, to be clear, I am not denigrating other systems because I don't think any system is the 'best' system.


basics are good, blah blah
but people in your school aren't learning 60 techniques in six years...

As I said prior, it is dependent on your aptitude. I'm sure you would agree that if somebody isn't getting their alignment correct in say a bow and arrow stance and this is repeated over and over again, you can't give new techniques to that practitioner that naturally build off of the old technique. I'm sure you've had this kind of experience when you've trained people where you have one student who is more coordinated and natural and can easily progress while others need to continually work on the foundation. Of course I would also say that you do need to give new techniques even to the struggling students to keep them engaged. Most of the time I think this is because the student isn't practicing on their own etc. If you want to count techniques... LOL ... we *could* do that ... :)



it was the DIRECT EXPERIENCE of guy who had been at Alan Lee's for years (and who are NOT there now, I wonder why)

Oh I have no idea why either. Every person is different and people come and go all the time. I have the utmost respect for people who can put lots of years into a system.






The video hides that fact really well......

Well of course you are entitled to your opinion, but I would urge you to go watch a class before making blanket judgments. :)



I've been doing martial arts more than three decades, been in the Mo Lam for a good part of that time... Ever consider that? :rolleyes:

As I said before, I have the utmost respect for people who devote themselves to an art for a number of years and it really shows the true spirit of Kung Fu. I'm just surprised that you would be so dismissive of other systems after all these years of experience. :) It seems to me that three decades in martial arts should actually breed recognition of the similarities between most martial arts.

All my love,
Indy :)

[lkfmdc]

Has it occurred to you that someone who has been doing CMA in NYC for more than 30 years might already have experience with your school? I mean, other than the fact I stated that former Alan Lee students have come to our school and trained....

Also, to suggest that all those guys didn't get real stuff after years of practice was becaue they weren't "coordinated enought" is not only a laugh riot, it is insulting.

One went on the become a disciple of a certain NYC internal stylist and is quite dilligent... if he gets insulted, I'll feel sorry for you

[TenTigers]

Indy-could you describe the curriculum a bit?
Do you learn specific forms, or do you say, learn the movements, techniques, strikes, etc of each of the five animals, and then are required to create your own form from the movements you have learned?
is the Jing kong a specific form, or is it chi-gung, breathing and striking techniques?

[Indy]

Indy-could you describe the curriculum a bit?
Do you learn specific forms, or do you say, learn the movements, techniques, strikes, etc of each of the five animals, and then are required to create your own form from the movements you have learned?
is the Jing kong a specific form, or is it chi-gung, breathing and striking techniques?

Hi Ten Tigers,

Master Lee trained under various teachers in China before the communists took over and because he was one of the elites he had the time a to learn various styles and incorporate them into his own system.

The basic forms are 12 Springing Legs (Tan Tui) which are the basic forms, Fist Form (which is an incorporation of all basic fist techniques) as well as a 2-man Springing Leg form. There are other minor forms as well which are forms in that they show you a basic technique, but they aren't showy, etc. The more advanced forms include a 2 partner form and others that incorporate the more advanced techniques.

The curriculum is such that our lesson plan rotates so that on various days we'll concentrate on different aspects of the system: a) Forms b) Fighting c) Punching, Kicking, other techniques d) Breathing and Meditation e) Discipline Techniques (hand and body conditioning, etc) f) Self defense


Ging Kong (Gold-Steel form) - is a kind of chi gung but its focus is external to build chi and move it to the surface. When we demonstrate this form, typically the practictioner will be kicked, punched, wood and other objects broken upon them. So in essence it is a form of Iron Body but it is very much tied into the breathing also.

As for Chi Kung - we practice 8 Silk Weaving (sometimes called 8 pieces of Brocade) that are used to massage the internal organs. There is a more advanced version called 12 Silk weaving as well. We also learn Tona breathing, alternate nostril breathing, etc.

Re: the animal styles - The system doesn't specialize in particular animals. Rather we are given a technique (i.e. mantis claw, tiger claw, leopard paw, etc). These techniques are then incorporated into the stepping and movement of the system as well as other aspects of the animal. Normally what happens, is when a student becomes more advanced, they begin to specialize in certain aspects of the system and they become proficient in those areas. So yes, we have the animals, but we do not emphasize that. We emphasize more our stepping and conditioning. I believe it is the stepping which gives the system its unique look.

We do not emphasize forms as much as other systems and the rationale behind this is that while forms teach you important common movements and combinations, it may dangerously lock you into rigidity. Rather, we emphasize continual practice of the techniques you have, and then gradually building them together toward 'fighting dancing' (i.e. shadow boxing of sorts), and then fighting. Normally, a student does not get fighting within the system for about a year since the first year is spent learning basics and conditioning the body to take blows.

I hope that answers your question,
Indy

[Indy]

Has it occurred to you that someone who has been doing CMA in NYC for more than 30 years might already have experience with your school? I mean, other than the fact I stated that former Alan Lee students have come to our school and trained....

Also, to suggest that all those guys didn't get real stuff after years of practice was becaue they weren't "coordinated enought" is not only a laugh riot, it is insulting.

One went on the become a disciple of a certain NYC internal stylist and is quite dilligent... if he gets insulted, I'll feel sorry for you

That's great. :) Thank you for your comments. :)

[lkfmdc]

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 characters

[cerebus]

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 characters


:confused:

[lkfmdc]

you can't post unless you have 10 characters minimum

(PS: look at the attachment)

[David Jamieson]

People dream up all sorts of elaborate minutia to justify their own folly.

[uki]

looks like alot of wasted movement in the sparring segments...

[David Jamieson]

p.s if you use your mma training effectively to win fights. You have Kungfu.

your kungfu is being able to fight!

(this is to HW108 regarding his comment that mma is NOT kungfu. Anything can be kungfu man! It doesn't even have to be chinese just because the term is. Makes no difference, kungfu is kungfu whether you got it in fighting, frigging or cooking chickens. :) )

[cerebus]

p.s if you use your mma training effectively to win fights. You have Kungfu.

your kungfu is being able to fight!

(this is to HW108 regarding his comment that mma is NOT kungfu. Anything can be kungfu man! It doesn't even have to be chinese just because the term is. Makes no difference, kungfu is kungfu whether you got it in fighting, frigging or cooking chickens. :) )

Well.... yes, using the literal translation of the term. But for the sake of convenience, most people in the US use the term "Kung Fu" to mean "Chinese Martial Arts" (but you already know that)...

[Lucas]

i have massive kungfu in the 'friggin'

im actually a great grand master in that art

[David Jamieson]

i have massive kungfu in the 'friggin'

im actually a great grand master in that art


uh...really?

You do realize that frigging is female masturbation right? lol

[Lucas]

uh...really?

You do realize that frigging is female masturbation right? lol


LOL

no i didnt know that. i figured it was a subsitute for F$#@ing. but hey, im at least a grand master with my hand skills when it comes to female pleasuring. of course it wouldnt be masturbating at that point, just purely masterful. ;)

im multi talented.

[IronWeasel]

uh...really?

You do realize that frigging is female masturbation right? lol



...the things that I learn from this forum....:o

[mickey]

More...

I did some research on that documentary. The filmaker looked at the Chinese martial arts as it was practiced in America, Hong Kong and Taiwan. It would be great to see the rest of the documentary.

mickey

[lkfmdc]

LKFMDC,

You made an allusion to being a student at the temple at one time. How was it for you?



dear lord, LEARN TO READ :rolleyes:

Someone who studied with Alan Lee came and studied Lama under me...




You make it sound as if someone beat you up and made you their byotch for the entire time you were there.


maybe that's your little wet dream, but it only happened in what you call your mind




Share something from yourself, your own experience,



I've shared plenty, but seeing as you have ZERO reading comprehension skills, well, there you have it

[TenTigers]

Hey Mickey,
You said you knew the guys in the video. Was one of them, the white guy with the moustache at 5:00 John Delasanti ?

[David Jamieson]

People sure get their hackles up when their view is contested.

lol

[lkfmdc]

Hi LKFMDC,

Your quote:

"Has it occurred to you that someone who has been doing CMA in NYC for more than 30 years might already have experience with your school? I mean, other than the fact I stated that former Alan Lee students have come to our school and trained"

I can read bery, bery, bery, vell, thank you.



and yet, you somehow think that translates to "I trained there"? :rolleyes:

****, you are a stupid as a rock.....

[lkfmdc]

Ok,

So that only leaves the other option, that you "belonged" to someone who trained there.

Tell it guy. We know you've got them edges.


mickey

man, you are really, I mean REALLY stupid

:rolleyes:

[cerebus]

Uh Mickey..... he has said (repeatedly now) that an ex-student of Alan Lee's went to him (lkfmdc) for training after leaving Lee's school, and THAT is how he knows about the training at Lee's.

[lkfmdc]

Uh Mickey..... he has said (repeatedly now) that an ex-student of Alan Lee's went to him (lkfmdc) for training after leaving Lee's school, and THAT is how he knows about the training at Lee's.

Well, it seems Mickey has his keyboard turned around upside down and is having some trouble posting right now.... either that or he's having trouble wading through the SPECIAL OLYMPICS post Gene put up (looking to see how he can enter!)

[Mr Punch]

WTF is with the attacks on Mickey in the tags? Bunch of ****ing high-school kids sometimes.

He's wrong. He's maybe making an ass of himself. So the **** what? Don't see any tags saying, 'Mickey is human'.

[lkfmdc]

(RE Mickey)

He's wrong. He's making an ass of himself.



well, that is the point now isn't it? :rolleyes:

[Sal Canzonieri]

This video clip is the first part of an old French documentary about Alan Lee's Northern Shaolin kung fu school. It seems that he has been teaching kung fu in New York since the late 60's.

Does anyone know of this school? Or Grand Master Alan Lee?
Can anyone comment on his reputation?

Another interesting aspect of this video is that the students spar using kung fu techniques rather than kickboxing ones, seen so often in Mckung fu schools, nowadays.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Dw88fw6lXA

That's not sparring. They're just posing and practicing postures, it's just an advertisement made a long, long time ago. It's the early 70s in that video, they aren't seriously showing what fighting using martial art applications are really like. It's just a darn advertisement.

here, compare to the following video, this is real Chinese kungfu, direct and to do point, no useless ballet, but still forming applications from the actual movements from forms:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CR-7E5xXs4c

[cerebus]

WTF is with the attacks on Mickey in the tags? Bunch of ****ing high-school kids sometimes.

He's wrong. He's maybe making an ass of himself. So the **** what? Don't see any tags saying, 'Mickey is human'.


Huh? "attacks on Mickey in the tags"? What does that mean? :confused:

[lkfmdc]

Greetings,

I questioned LKFMDC about his "experience" that was "other" than that shared by students of a particular school. I erred in thinking that he was a member of that school.



You did more than that asswipe :rolleyes:




LKFMDC,

someone beat you up and made you their byotch for the entire time you were there.



How you came to that conclusion based upon what I posted is anyone's guess, though the leading theory is you have a brain disorder

Don't talk **** to me and then act like "ooops! I made a little mistake"

:rolleyes:

[lkfmdc]

An apology isn't an apology if you delete the thread before the sun rises :rolleyes:

[iron_silk]

This is not the first time I've heard stuff like this. Ah racism:rolleyes:

I thought Alan Lee looked caucasian in the video.

[taai gihk yahn]

An apology isn't an apology if you delete the thread before the sun rises :rolleyes:

typical keyboard-warrior profile: Mickey makes a (supposedly) non-committal statement about his school ("we do this, blah, blah, blah"); of course, he gets poked on it, and now it's personal all of a sudden; then he tries to pull the "oh, it doesn't bother me at all" schtick, "thanking" Dave for his input, but basically ducking the questions put to him; then he gets all drama queen / grandiose and starts an entirely new thread about how he realized that he had offended Dave, the Forum, small woodland creatures worldwide, etc. and APOLOGIZES :rolleyes: for it; however, he soon realizes that when turning the other cheek, it stings just as much when you get slapped a second time - obviously, the "apology" was conditional upon his being praised for his magnanimity as opposed to being trashed for his panty-bunchedness; which shows that Mickey's got a lot to learn about what an apology is, which is that you don't make it in expectation of the reception being one way or the other - the fact that he removed the thread because it didn't earn him the laudamus te he was anticipating, is clearly indicative of that;

next!

[Lucas]

if you had to say that, could you do it all in one breath?

;)

[lkfmdc]

if you had to say that, could you do it all in one breath?

;)


speaking from first hand experience, YES HE COULD!

[Lucas]

speaking from first hand experience, YES HE COULD!

lol. did he used to work for micro machines by any chance? ;)

[lkfmdc]

I thought Alan Lee looked caucasian in the video.

you are thinking of his senior student, Lee Allen

then there is Ali Lan also

it's a confusing place

[Lucas]

lol are you being serious?

[taai gihk yahn]

if you had to say that, could you do it all in one breath?

;)

I can do this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa7evoSWgIY&feature=related) in one breath....

[Lucas]

oh my...

:eek:

[mickey]

Greetings and Whoa!!

I took the thread down because I saw that LKCMDC had seen it. I did not ask for an acceptance of my apology. I simply asked LKFMDC a question based on a misreading of a paragraph he had written. Unfortunately, I did not ask it properly nor respectfully. I regret conducting myself in that way with him. In sincerety, I created another thread that directly addressed LKFMDC and forum members. The thread did meander. I waited for LKFMDC to post, which he did (all I needed was for him to see it), and then I took down the thread.

I do not feel it is necessary to be banned in order for one to conduct oneself appropriately.


mickey