Useful Techniques

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

OK, I'm going to open up a can of worms here by expressing AN OPINION. I beleive that the majority of techniques being taught in the traditional arts (Kung Fu, Karate etc.) nowadays are usable in combat. The catch is this: You have to train them exhaustively and know them inside and out. One of the nice things about some of the Karate styles and mixed martial arts is that they are effective with very little training. These same people look at a traditional art like Praying Mantis and say it won't work because it's too hard, too complex, wasted movement etc. Well they worked in the past and since we're the same creatures we were 2,000 years ago there's no reason for them not to work today. If they don't work for you then maybe you either don't understand them or you haven't practiced enough.

Back when I first started out in martial arts (Kenpo) my friends would ask me to show them some moves they could use in fights. I told them I could show them some really slick moves but they would have to train them over and over to be able to use them. I would then just show them some simple moves that take very little training to execute. Kung Fu is more complex, and the only way to make it work is through rigorous training.

Northern Mantis works, however, you aren't going to learn it overnight. Even some of the more obscure techniques will work if you train them enough. Bottom line, it's not the art but the practioner of the art.

Anyone still feel there are superior and inferior styles and techniques? Any one have any good stories about practioners with weird fighting styles/techniques that seem to work for them?

***The Truth is IN (not out) there!***

[joedoe]

I agree with most of your post. So many people nowadays want instant skill with minimum work for it. Not the way kung fu works as I understand it.

I think the other thing to consider is what you want out of training a fighting art. If you only want to learn how to fight, then go do boxing or MMA or BJJ or something. If you are looking for a fuller experience then kung fu can give that to you.

There can be a superior fighting style for a given situation. There is no style that covers every situation. Ultimately, as you said, it is the fighter, not the style that will make the difference.

I believe kung fu is a way of life, not just a way of fighting.

Guns don't kill people, I kill people

[terry_251]

Here is my opinion. I think every style has a point and meaning to it. But everyone is diffrent. Now if you put one style up against another, they are a perfect match up and a good fight. Put one style up against another, and that other style completly destroys the other. Some styles match up and others don't. For instance, get someone who is really fast with awesome footwork and put him against a wrestler. He would demolish the wrestler with kicks and fast moves. UNLESS the wrestler can get him to the mat. Then he is done.

I guess my point is that every style, no matter what it is, is effective and works great.... for what it is designed to do. Put it against something that it is not ment to do, it doesn't work. I can not bring any insight as to how Northern Mantis compares because I have not yet trained in it or even seen it in action. Only have read things about it on the internet.

Hope this fits your topic.

[NorthernMantis]

bottom line is people today are lazy slobs who want everything fast and quick without breaking your back over it.

Many don't realize that there are no shortcuts in life.The easy way is the long way.If you skip on basics now you won't be able to do anything in the long run.Especially when you're more advanced.

Strong basics equalls strong kung fu.Many guys learn the advanced forms but don't feel the need to work on the basics anymore.I'm a bit guilty of that.A couple of days ago I noticed my technique was lacking a bit and I got mad at myself for not keeping my basics strong.Now I'm working more on them.

"Always be ready"

[woliveri]

I have a relative (inlaw) who came from Vietnam and studied a few years of Kung Fu there. I asked him about his experience and what he learned and he showed me. He said for the first two years I came to my Master's place and practiced a horse stance for 2 hours with a small break in between hours. I said, "That's it?" and he replied, "well, while in the horse stance we did some blocking techniques". He did this every day except Sunday for 2 years. Then he started to learn more. Must build the foundation first before learning more. I know Master Chan did 500 Pierce the Heart kicks every day when he learned. I'm sure he didn't start with FORMs.

Try that here and see how many students your school has :-)

Basics, Basics, Basics.

There is no spoon. "The Matrix"
There's a difference between knowing the path and walking the path. "The Matrix"

[NorthernMantis]

I agree if every kung fu school was like that then there would only be like 3 students in the class.I wouldn't mind doing that knowing what I know now.I would have spent so much more on basics since the beginging.Practice and perseverance is the only remedy.Repition can get boring sometimes but it pays in the end.

"Always be ready"

[Robinf]

Usefull techniques are the techniques you practice.

NorthernMantis,
I couldn't have stated the state of many students better than you did, "lazy"--wanting full benefit for minimum effort.

I have a couple of students, late-teens. They both have good leg strength and excel in tam tui exercises, but they only push themselves after I harp on them to do so, and even then they roll their eyes at me and don't keep it up. One of the guys complained that the workout was not as hard as wrestling. I harp on them now, even more. He leaves class out of breath and drenched in sweat. He rolls his eyes at me now, but a couple of years down the road, I think that will change (I hope). I hope they learn that the fruits of hard work and pushing yourself to your fullest potential are much sweeter than what you can reap from just minimal effort.

Isn't the transation of "kung fu" = "hard work" ?

Robin

Surrender yourself to nature and be all that you are.

[Papieboni]

You guys/girls have touched on something that I can definitely relate to.

When I started out in the martial arts every instructor was hard core basics, drills, exercises
for conditioning, flexibility, strength, timing and etc., even in the earlier eighties during my first exposure to the martial arts by the way of Karate, the instructor was an old timer.

My previous instructor worked the hell out of us, not just in the advanced and instructor classes but every one was given a taste of what it meant to do hard work. That hour to an hour in a half seemed like all day. If you were bold enough you would try and do the beginner, intermediate and advanced classes.

And the thing is that most people loved it. Of course it was hard and demanding. But after everyone improved it was all good. I loved these classes, being former MArine Corps I loved the intensity, It was demanding and I learned to knwo how for i could push myself. I improved dramatically.

I now teach and every once in a while try to push my students a little further and give them a taste of this intesnsity and push them a little past their potential.

I had a couple guys visit my class about two months ago. One was in the beach area here in Southern California and was so anxious to learn kung fu and wanted to know if I certify people to teach and he was shopping around looking for a school and had at least 5-10 appts set up and wanted to audit my class. I invited the gentleman down and another gentleman showed up with him and they watched the class. This particular night I made the class so inense and hard that these two people just looked at each other and shooked their heads and told my brother who assist me in my classes that this was not for them. :)

I was happy, because I weeded out people that I really dont want to waste my time on. I could be wrong, they probably could have been good students. I dont want people to learn from me because they just want to be instructors. I want them to lesrn from me because it is something they love to do and it becomes a part of who they are, not just a hobby.

Kung Fu is hardwork and being an instructor is even harder. All the people I know that are good martial artists, they are good because they work hard.

One of these gentleman posted a post on kungfuonline that they were looking for a school to train, and not the military. True kung fu scools are not the military. However, most good that I know, they are good because their students have preserverance, discipline and the right attitude and it is up to the instructor to find out how to motivate his students to get them to perform.

At my last school, our school as a whole did well in tournaments in forms and fighting because we trained hard, very hard, military hard, Marine Corps hard. We were not the school that was getting the wind kicked out of us and tossed around like noodles. We stood our ground and we fought. We didnt leave the floor when it was time to fight, we displayed that we could.

" Moss Never Grows on a Rolling Stone"

[terry_251]

Kicking Mantis: We deffinitlly see eye to eye on this. It could be of course due to sharing a Marine Corps background! :)

But on to others. The intensity. I dont know about anyone else, but I personally feel the best all day right after a high intensity work out. I am talking about a few hours of everything from hitting the bag to running a few miles near the end. Work myself to death onlt to feel better than ever. Call it runner's high or just someone who loves a work out.

But doing an intense workout for a week gets you really tired and begins to drag on you. So people give up or slack off. If they would continue every day and push through that slack period of being tired, their body will adapt and they will come out way ahead of normal. The problem like I said is that everyone quits once the muscles ache and they get tired. Stick with it and the results show just like Kicking Mantis said about his students at tournements.

Semper Fi.
Sgt Reinert

[NorthernMantis]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> If you were bold enough you would try and do the beginner, intermediate and advanced classes. [/quote]

Ouch.I've tried to do that before but never made it past the intermediate class.

It's good to see there are still believe that little bit of hard work and dedication is the best way to go.

I can't stress enough how hard work and lots and lots of practice is needed for improvement.Let me relate a story,although I do not want to brag about it.When I fifrst joined kung fu there were a couple of people that were had been there quite along time beofre my brother and I.Two of them were going to my high school.

Now my flexibility was horrible and I couldn't kick higher than my waist nor touch my toes at all.I noticed how they practiced in class and and they weren't putting much effort or spirit into their practice.Since I was the "small kid" at school I was picked on a lot I had such a drive to push my self even though when I was in pain.I wold spend an hour practicing after kung fu class at home for aloms 2 hours(it was hard due to my asthma).Sometimes tears would run down my cheeks since it was hard for me but I still persevered.My dad couldn't understand why or what I was going through and thought I was a bit crazy since he doesn't agree with kung fu.Nonetheless I still pushed my self.

This had contined for about nine months and in that total time I had improved so much.I couldn't belive that those same people in class wer at the same level and still being taugh most of the same stuff as before even though kung fu is about quality and not quantity of knowledge.I mean they could barely hold a basic horse stance,barely ever showed up to class and never practiced on their own.I asked on why he wasn't practicing kung fu he replied "it's too boring".What he really meant is that he was too lazy to sick with it.

I'm the only one left now out of that group and that was lmost 4 years ago.I'm glad I persevered and I'm thankful about everything that I went through and everyone that helped me a long the way.I've come along way.

It all comes down to hard work cause no one else will do kung fu for you ,they can help and push you however and that goes a long way.

Remember basics are the foundation for all techniques to come and that practice makes perfect..or near perfect,you know what I mean.

"Always be ready"

[NorthernMantis]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> If you were bold enough you would try and do the beginner, intermediate and advanced classes. [/quote]

Ouch.I've tried to do that before but never made it past the intermediate class.

It's good to see there still are people who believe that little bit of hard work and dedication is the best way to go.

I can't stress enough how hard work and lots and lots of practice is needed for improvement.Let me relate a story,although I do not want to brag about it.When I first joined kung fu there were a couple of people that were had been there quite along time before my brother and I came into the picture.Two of them were going to my high school.

Now my flexibility was horrible and I couldn't kick higher than my waist nor touch my toes at all.I noticed how they practiced in class and they weren't putting much effort or spirit into their practice.Since I was the "small kid" at school I was picked on a lot I had such a drive to push my self even though when I was in pain.I would spend from an hour after kung fu class to 2 hours(it was hard due to my asthma).Sometimes tears would run down my cheeks since it was hard for me but I still persevered.My dad couldn't understand why or what I was going through and thought I was a bit crazy since he doesn't agree with kung fu.Nonetheless I still pushed my self.

This had contined for about nine months and in that total time I had improved so much.I couldn't belive that those same people in class were at the same level and still being taugh most of the same stuff as before, even though kung fu is about quality and not quantity.I mean they could barely hold a basic horse stance,barely ever showed up to class and never practiced on their own.I asked one why he wasn't practicing kung fu on his own and he replied "it's too boring".What he really meant is that he was too lazy to stick with it.

I'm the only one left now out of that group and that was lmost 4 years ago.I'm glad I persevered and I'm thankful about everything that I went through and everyone that helped me a long the way.I've come along way since then.

It all comes down to hard work cause no one else will do kung fu for you ,they can help and push you however and that goes a long way.

Remember basics are the foundation for all techniques to come and that practice makes perfect..or near perfect,you know what I mean.

:D

"Always be ready"

[This message was edited by NorthernMantis on 03-31-01 at 07:47 AM.]