Security Tips from David Hackworth

[rogue]

Securtiy Tips (http://www.hackworth.com/sr.html)

"Americans don't have the courage to come here," Mullah Mohammed Omar, leader of the Taliban who right about now is getting jiggy with his first of 70 virgins.

“Are you guys ready? Let’s roll.� Last words of Todd Beamer heard over his mobile line right before rushing a hijacker.

[Kung Lek]

That guy is just "slightly" paranoid.

ok, i'm off to the unlit woods to meet a stranger from the internet, see you all later :D

peace

Kung Lek

Martial Arts Links (http://members.home.net/kunglek)

[Jeff Liboiron]

This dude is a frickin nut job :D

The object is not to hurt someone else, but to stop them from hurting you

[qimaster]

That man, David Hackworth is a true martial artist. He has probably killed more enemy troops in actual wartime combat (through either himself doing the shooting or commanding his men to do the shooting) than all members of the KFO combined.

they do not give out dsc's, bronze and silver stars for being a coward. If any of you would want to even consider yourselves to be true martial artists, you will have served in the
Armed Forces of which ever countries you hail from
and would be prepared, willing and able to defend
with your very lives, the beliefs of your respective nations. That makes you a citizen, instead of a civilian.

I think if I were Hackworth, I would have some
fairly novel security measures at my home also.
7 Purple Hearts are a lot of combat injuries.

here are some of his verifiable awards:


Distinguished Service Cross (with one Oak Leaf Cluster)

Silver Star (with nine Oak Leaf Clusters)

Legion of Merit (with three Oak Leaf Clusters)

Distinguished Flying Cross

Bronze Star Medal (with "V" Device & seven Oak Leaf Clusters)(Seven of the awards for heroism)

Purple Heart (with seven Oak Leaf Clusters).

nutcase? not one person on any of these boards are even fit to shine that man's jumpboots.

sincerely;

Rich Mooney
SGT US Army (Retired)

[joedoe]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> If any of you would want to even consider yourselves to be true martial artists, you will have served in the
Armed Forces of which ever countries you hail from
and would be prepared, willing and able to defend
with your very lives, the beliefs of your respective nations. That makes you a citizen, instead of a civilian.
[/quote]

I respect the men and women who serve in the armed forces, but do not for one minute think that serving in the armed forces makes you any better than any other citizen of your country.

I do not serve in the armed forces, and I doubt that I would pass the medical, but I would be willing to fight for my country if it were invaded. My skills lie elsewhere, so I would think that I would not be put on a battlefield anyway. I do not see that this makes me any less of a citizen than Mr Joe Soldier.

cxxx[]:::::::::::>
You're fu(king up my chi

[qimaster]

If a person has a legitimate medical reason why they cannot serve in their nation's military, then that is a reasonable situation in and of itself. However, every person SHOULD serve if they are physically/mentally able. It makes them better citizens in the long run, and in order to defend freedom, it should be a requirement.

Serving your nation is an honorable task, defending freedom is an honorable task, and should be a major requirement for citizenship.
Those who are disabled can also serve in their own ways as well, volunteering for civil sector
organizations such as red cross work, VA Hospitals, United Way, etc...

In fact here in Texas, at least the area that I am in, it is mandatory for graduation, as part of
their studies in US Government, for students to do
250 hours of volunteer community service type work. Even those who are handicapped or otherwise disabled (to a certain degree of course) are also accomodated and found employ at various
volunteer organizations.

[tsunami surfer]

I agree with bandit. Aperson doesnt need to serve in the armed forces tobe considered a citizen. There are many other ways for citizens to serve their contries. By the way Im a veteran myself and have just as much respect for those who served in the peace corps, red cross ect. Hack actually put out some stuff that is just plain common sense. If you arent already doing these things in your subconscience(did I spell that right?) your a victim waiting to happen.‡

[Watchman]

Col. Hack is correct.

[Stranger]

Aye, Watchman.

I don't get mad.
I get stabby.

[qimaster]

a citizen will care enough about his country to serve it in some way, be it thru military, volunteer, or civil service.

a civilian just sits back and enjoys the benefits and freedoms provided through the hard work and effort of the ones who take an active role in the
maintenance of society.

disabled people who can benefit their socities
do a fine job when and where they can, when and where they are able. I am not discussing them. I am saying that if a person wants to consider themselves a true martial artist, that they should serve their nation's military (UNLESS THEY ARE DISABLED OR OTHERWISE DISQUALIFIED).

some people said David Hackworth is nuts, and I am of the opinion he is right on the money with many of his observations. A citizen who has served his nation in the military is looked upon by their nations with greater esteem than those who have not served. This is seen and shown by the benefits that are afforded them after their service is completed, like va loans at reduced rates, educational benefits, civil service points, preferential treatment for certain forms of employment etc....

[Kung Lek]

The views of a military man do not line up with the views of the general populace.

His advice is sound if you are a person in a position of power or someone who is a likely "target" for organizations seeking to upset that power.

But if you look at earl the bag boy at the local walmart, his views hardly apply, hence my remark about paranoia.

I too believe that one should in some way shape or form serve the country they live in. I do not hold to the belief that this necessarily has to be military service. Nor do I believe being a soldier necessarily makes you better at being a martial artist.

All respects to the guy for his service to his country. But context is important too.

Another case in point about one' environment shaping their personal views I guess. ;)

-don't act so humble, you're not that great- Indhira Ghandi

peace

Kung Lek

Martial Arts Links (http://members.home.net/kunglek)

[joedoe]

Funny, I always thought that a citizen of a country was just that - someone who has qualified for citizenship. A civilian is supposed to be someone who is not a member of the armed forces.

I did not realise that the term civilian implied a lack of participation in upholding the values of a society, simply a lack of participation in the armed forces.

Please don't redefine the meaning of words just so you can feel better about yourself.

BTW if he has indeed earned all those military honours, then I respect the man and what he has done. I am not so sure if I would go so far as to say that no one here is fit to even polish his boots though. He is after all a citizen of a country that espouses the equality of all men is he not?

cxxx[]:::::::::::>
You're fu(king up my chi

[qimaster]

If you are willing to learn how to protect your own life, then you should also be willing (if you are able bodied) to defend and protect the way of life and freedom that you are living in, at the cost of your own life if need be.

I do not know of any other job that gives you the tacit approval to kill enemies of the freedom
you hold near and dear (within certaiin limits as set forth in the rules of engagement) with near impunity.

Police protect their area by catching those who break the laws. BUT in the military, when there is a declared war, or a police action, it is open season on the enemy. your job is to practice the arts of war, the martial arts, and to eliminate those people who pose a threat to your way of life.

A person willing to do that is of great value. a person acting in support roles for those people are of great value. a person who just goes through life and gets what they can out of it without putting back into their community or country, if they are not disabled, is not as valuable in my estimation. that type of person, who just skates through life is what I would term a civilian, and not worthy of the title of citizen.

as a martial arts teacher, I do my best to instill patriotic values and virtues in my students. Those who are of age, I also counsel to join one of the armed forces branches. If you want to go out and be on the front lines and truly defend the values you wish to pass down to your kids and grandkids - then service in the military is a wonderful way to express yourself.

[joedoe]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> If you want to go out and be on the front lines and truly defend the values you wish to pass down to your kids and grandkids [/quote]

So by this quote, can I take it to mean that you are not truly defending the values of your country if you do not serve in the front lines?

Don't redefine words to fit your own meanings. The general usage of the word civilian denotes one who is not in military service. The general usage of the word citizen is one who has qualified as a citizen of a country. Whether a resident of a country serves that country in any way does not change their status of citizenship.

We can agree to disagree here. You can value people in your way, I will value them in my way. While I admire, respect, and honour those who serve in the armed forces, I still keep in mind that they are people and as such are no more or less valuable than the next person. Every person, in their own way, is valuable.

cxxx[]:::::::::::>
You're fu(king up my chi

[Sharky]

*EVERYONE* should be in the army?

There is more to life than wars. What does it say about society that you think every able bodied person should be in an army?

All i wanted was some RICE CAKES! Now? WE MUST BATTLE.

[Kung Lek]

qimaster, the more succint truth of it is that when you are a soldier you do what you are told to do by the chain of command.

You act on orders. whether you feel "duty" or not doesn't come in to play. Surely you must know that seeing as you either are or have been in the service.

If you commander tells you to sit on your ass then you better do that. If your commander says go out on these co-ordinates and throw grenades til you don't have any, then you better do that.

Hopefully the training you receive will make sure you have the sense not to get yourself killed by your own stupidity but in some cases this does not occur.

Killing does not make anyone a better person in any context. It is a cryin shame that wars must be fought at all. War is a testiment to the lack of "common sense" that humanity shares wholly.

People serve their countries every day by teaching other peoples children, by taking care of the old and infirm and by seeing to it that those who cannot feed themselves recieve nourishment, by driving ambulances, by putting out fires, by any number of other acts.

These, in my opinion outweigh and have more value than any killing done in the name of patriotism or god and country or political and economic interest.

Now, if you don't pay your taxes, well you are not worthy in my opinion to even live on the soil that keeps you.

peace

Kung Lek

Martial Arts Links (http://members.home.net/kunglek)

[Watchman]

The views of a military man do not line up with the views of the general populace.

His advice is sound if you are a person in a position of power or someone who is a likely "target" for organizations seeking to upset that power.

Actually Kung Lek, everything that Col. Hack mentions in his piece is almost to the letter exactly what I teach to all the college girls in my Self-Protection for Women course every semester.

From a statistical standpoint, and as a cultural segment, women of the ages 16-24 are the targets of violent assault more than any other segment of society.

I think Hack's advice goes a long way beyond military and political figures.

[Sharky]

once, i didn't pay my taxes, but the driver beat my ass with a bat :(

All i wanted was some RICE CAKES! Now? WE MUST BATTLE.

[Sharky]

and having read the article, he didn't even say anything that amazing, odd, or new, did he?

All i wanted was some RICE CAKES! Now? WE MUST BATTLE.

[tsunami surfer]

there are always people who will live off of our societies privliges without contributing. So what, thats one less person in my way of accomplishing what I want to build in my life. After processing out of the military all I got was a measly 5 points for civil service job. It was cheaper to bypass my VA loan and go another way to finanance my home. I had to contribute to my education and then got major hassels from the VA to get it back. The old GI bill does not exist anymore. Like most veterans after leaving the service I was on my own. Thats the way I like it. Im not whining here just stating facts. I also get irked when someone says that a person who serves in the guard or reserve was ducking duty. They served too. Does that mean they are less than full time soldiers? You seem to be awed by medals and ribbons qimaster. Hell I got a couple of the ones Hack has but that doesnt make me more of a citezen than anyone else. By the way I noticed that you signed off SGT US ARMY, did you retire as an E-5?????

[Kung Lek]

Being aware in an urban setting is just plain horse sense.

People who go to classes for this information are looking for the information and in many cases feel threatened to begin with.

If you perpetuate an armed fortress society, then that is what you will live in eventually.
A police state where everyone wants to look up your butt everytime you get on a bus is not where i want to live.

Are there sickos in society? yes. Do they know what the defenses against them are. If they are real wackos yes they do and all the lessons in "self security" will not stop them 100% of the time.

Fear, breeds more fear, it is that simple. Perpetuation of the armed fortress mentality breeds suspicion and fear.

There are better ways, it begins with what we teach the children and how we treat the children.
Learning is generational. If peace is instilled in the first it will perpetuate into the next.

Being peaceful does not mean being a sucker. If anyone has taught us that it was buddhist monks who learned to kick ass ;)

peace

Kung Lek

Martial Arts Links (http://members.home.net/kunglek)

[qimaster]

I was injured in the line of duty, and was retired as an E5. I see many E5's retiring at Sheppard AFB these days. Sad thing was, I was up for E6, and awaiting entry into OCS at the time
I was injured.

[Watchman]

Being aware in an urban setting is just plain horse sense.

It is, but you'd be amazed at how rare "plain horse sense" really is. Awareness is a learned skill, and some of us have developed it to a higher degree than others - often to the point where we take it for granted.

People who go to classes for this information are looking for the information and in many cases feel threatened to begin with.

You'd go looking for this type of information as well if you happened to be a member of a demographic that experienced the highest numbers of violent assault in your society (1 in 4 women will experience some form of sexual assault before the age of 24).

The reason they sign up for the class is because they plain have never been taught what you and I consider "common sense", or have learned it the hard way (by being assaulted), and are looking for answers.

Have you ever been stalked? That is not a common worry for men, yet in a class of 30 women each semester, every time I ask how many of them have been stalked - MORE THAN HALF of them raise their hands.

Additionally, out of a group of 30 women every semester, fully 1 in 5 of them have experienced some form of sexual assault.

These girls feel threatened for a reason.

Do they know what the defenses against them are. If they are real wackos yes they do and all the lessons in "self security" will not stop them 100% of the time.

Yes, there is absolutely no such thing as 100% security, but there IS such a thing as minimizing risk. Also, if you understand the psychology of assault/victimization, those who HAVE taken measures to both minimize their risks of assault and to protect themselves should an assault happen (both physically and psychologically) recover from assault three to four times faster than those who have not prepared themselves.

If you perpetuate an armed fortress society, then that is what you will live in eventually.

There is a huge difference between an armed, free society and a police state.

Fear, breeds more fear, it is that simple. Perpetuation of the armed fortress mentality breeds suspicion and fear.

IMO, their is also a huge difference between unwarranted paranoia and a cold, hard look at reality.

[Celestial Amiboshi]

I would never wish anyone to enter that dehumanizing institution. I for one have much more respect for the diplomats who work in our embassies and work towards peace, rather than a mindless peon on the frontlines.

[rogue]

And as Watchman knows, as a man it's our job to protect our families. Therefore it's important that we know how to safe guard them even if we're not the immediate target.

Living in the yellow is better than being a victim in the green.

"Americans don't have the courage to come here," Mullah Mohammed Omar, leader of the Taliban who right about now is getting jiggy with his first of 70 virgins.

“Are you guys ready? Let’s roll.� Last words of Todd Beamer heard over his mobile line right before rushing a hijacker.

[Watchman]

Rogue is correct.

[qimaster]

If you would be talking of peace, you need to have the firepower to back it up.

Not everybody is cut out for the military way of life, but all should serve in their own way, and add to the society in which they live, to perpetuate its goals and stimulate its growth.

The weapons of war, and the men who wield those weapons, make a world of difference when the
going gets tough.

peons? Audie Murphy was a young man when he earned the Congressional Medal of Honor, Sgt Alvin
York was a conscientious objector for a while.

Both prior examples were men of low birth, and poor circumstances, but they rose to the occaision
when the time called for action, and they stand out as examples of bravery by which all others can be compared to.

[Kung Lek]

Watchman, your points are valid. And what you offer has value.

I agree, there are major problems with society. I do think there is a major problem with an armed populace also. There are so many piles of stats that indicate what the problems are, it's not worth going into without getting on the tired dog topic of gun control and all that.

What we inundate ourselves with as "entertainment" is a problem, we're pratically still freaking living in the roman empire!

The amount of psychopaths walking free is inversely proportional to the amount of apathetic people out there.

When you say "cold hard reality", is this the same cold hard reality that has always existed?

men do get stalked also, statiscally less than women but nevertheless there it is.
Men also get raped and more often than not men commit crimes at a greater rate and they commit felony crimes with guns at a greater rate than women. In the states and elsewhere.

If we look at the lowest common denominators in our societies (mine and yours canada and the usa) we find very similar problems in our societies that have remained essentially unchanged no matter what action is taken.

Only thing is, nobody has really taken a good go at perpetuating a lasting and deeply rooted peace at home or in our dealings with other nations.

It seems it is too difficult a path for most to walk. It is easier to punch a guy in the mouth for whatever reason than it is to see that some things are simply errors or accidents that can be forgiven.

The current state of affairs is an ugly thing that has a lot of people very, very screwed up in their thinking on it and actually has forced many people to take sides.

People are now getting back into a McCarthy state of mind and frankly that disturbs me deeply.

But we can only change ourselves as individuals.

peace

Kung Lek

Martial Arts Links (http://members.home.net/kunglek)

[straight blast]

Hey Qimaster, just curious. Who told you all the stuff about citizen/civilian? Are you taught that in the military, or is it a commonly held belief? Have you ever read the book "Starship Troopers" (the movie was based very loosely off it)? It says exactly what you said (Verbatim-I checked) and I wondered if this was a common military dogma (sorry, couldn't find a better word).
Personally I would not make a good grunt. I hate taking orders off anybody. I don't trust anyone (except for an elite group of friends who have stood the test of time) with my life, especially those who make a career of it. Compulsory military service is not for me. As I once heard a Shaolin monk (when asked on a documentary) say "Modern warfare has no need of me". Likewise. All respect to the brave souls who do though.


If you haven't read "Starship Troopers", read it. Whoever wrote it shares exactly the same beliefs as you.
Peace :cool:

"Pain is merely weakness leaving the body"

[tnwingtsun]

This is nothing new,
I have been taking these measures as second nature
for years,does that make me paranoid??

Those who wish to be compliant do so at your own risk.

I was neither shocked nor surprised when the Sept.11th attack happened or the bio attacks,
I expected more and expect more to follow.

[jameswebsteruk]

Starship Troopers was written by acclaimed science fiction writer Robert Heinlein, and there is discussion over whether he actually believed the almost-fascist ideas put foward in the book. Written in the 60s, Heinlein was career military, who was invalided out with TB, and it seems likely that he did, these were his personal views in novel form.

The idea of compulsory military service for citizenship is not new, the Roman empire at its height couldnt have existed without it, as it was a relatively small country which had taken over huge swathes of territory, and was spread very thinly. However, they insisted on extended periods of service, in some areas, a minimum of 15 to 25 years!

The chalice from the palace has the pellet with the poison,
The vessel with the pestle has the brew that is true!

[BaekHoKwan]

A strong, and effective military, must be supported by a nation of civilians. Civilians pay taxes that fund the military, staff industry and build military equipment, provide logistical and technichal support, research and development, and a host of other services, to the armed services. A strong Military is vital, but it is nothing without a strong nation of civilian, citizens to support it.

The position that citizens should only be allowed from a pool of servicemen and women, and public servants (which I've done my time as a Peace Officer), smacks of facism. I serve my country, by protecting it from itself. I'm no better, nor more deserving of citizenry, than a teacher, accoutant, garbage collector, or the guy taking my order at McDonald's. They all work. They all pay taxes, and they all have the same rights as I do....and thank God I live in a country where that is the truth.

Peace.....unless otherwise required.

C. Martin
"Pain is Neccessary!"

[JWTAYLOR]

None of that seemed terribly paranoid to me at all. I must admit that I'm a few steps, at least, beyond that. Much to my surprise, my wife is even beyond me.

JWT

If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV

[myosimka]

C. Martin-RTFO!!!


qimaster- I must say that while I admire those who chose to serve in our military, I hold them in no higher regard than I do my wife who is a pacifist and teaches in the public school system. Military service doesn't make you a citizen, it makes you a soldier.
I'd argue that Ali's decision to stand before Congress as a conscientious objector qualifies as a patriotic act.
I would also argue that at times, particularly as we watch the 4th amendment fall by the wayside, military or police service does not always constitute a patriotic pursuit.

I am glad that people choose a military career. I am glad people routinely lay down their lives to protect mine. I am also glad people routinely stand up and say that war is not necessary. And if you think that a congresswoman facing death threats for voicing her moral stance is less patriotic then joining the military, then reread the Bill of Rights and the philosphical basis for our gov't--Locke, Montasquieu, etc

[halfling]

What part of Texas do you live in? I have been around Texas quite a bit and know people from about every part of Texas and I have never heard of the required 250 volunteer hours you mentioned. I am currently in the public school systems in Texas (higher-education) and have never heard of such required hours. Just curious about what part of Texas this is. Thanks.

[rogue]

Pacifism is a luxery provided by a strong military.

"Americans don't have the courage to come here," Mullah Mohammed Omar, leader of the Taliban who right about now is getting jiggy with his first of 70 virgins.

“Are you guys ready? Let’s roll.� Last words of Todd Beamer heard over his mobile line right before rushing a hijacker.

[Kung Lek]

rogue

Read some george orwell. Also, upon reflection of many of the things said in this thread, It is apparent that Nationalism and Patriotism are not being defined clearly. There are differences.

-"the picture of the future is a boot stamping a human face, forever"- Orwell

peace

Kung Lek

Martial Arts Links (http://members.home.net/kunglek)

[jjj]

Rogue is correct.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"It's not really NHB because they won't let me bring a platoon of Navy SEAL's with Blackhawk fire support into the ring!"
-Watchman

[jjj]

BTW I am tired of hearing about the following:

1) Anthrax
2) Civilian casualties

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"It's not really NHB because they won't let me bring a platoon of Navy SEAL's with Blackhawk fire support into the ring!"
-Watchman

[myosimka]

Really? Ask Mahatma Ghandi about that. He found it to neither be a luxury nor backed by a strong military. (Although I should be more precise and use the term non-aggression)

[jjj]

>>Really? Ask Mahatma Ghandi about that. <<

Nah, he can ask me about it. :D

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"It's not really NHB because they won't let me bring a platoon of Navy SEAL's with Blackhawk fire support into the ring!"
-Watchman

[qimaster]

typo. 25 hours, I live in wichita falls. not much
time at all really. My info may be a bit dated since the school board here has changed more times than I even care to bother remembering.

could be something entirely new this year...

[This message was edited by qimaster on 10-29-01 at 12:33 PM.]

[qimaster]

"I hold them in no higher regard than I do my wife who is a pacifist and teaches in the public school system."

Thats fine. BUT pacifists can only exist when there is a society in place that is "free" and has a strong military base to stop aggressive enemies from conquering it.

I paraphrase here, but have heard that the wheels
of liberty and freedom and democracy must at times be oiled with the blood of patriots.

by the same token, I may not agree with all opinions set forth here, but I would defend with my life the rights for others to voice their dissent. (another paraphrase of course).

In a militaristic society, i.e., one that is always being attacked on all sides, a pacifist
cannot survive. back in the revolutionary period and the expansionist period, I would dare say that all citizens were soldiers, those being counted as males over the age of 16 years I believe. some females would on occaision take up male dress and join in arms with other men, as history has borne out in the revolutionary and civil wars.

[myosimka]

and I again reply-Mahatma Ghandi. Preached non-aggressive resistance and lived it. Funny thing is it worked. And India was not a free nation at the time and the Indians clearly had an inferior military.

Will passive resistance work in all cases? Can't say and we can certainly disagree on that(never said I was a pacifist) but your statement that a pacifist cannot survive is clearly not the case.

The point is your elitist notion of citizenship based upon military service is limited and does a disservice to the notion of plurality that makes the US great. Again, I state that Ali was patriotic in defending his religious beliefs and ideals.

Also, kindly remember that we now live in a time where we have the most powerful military in the world even though it comprises less than 1% of the citizenry. Compulsory military service is not necessary and, ask the Soviets, it cripples your economy. Oh that's right, you can't ask the Soviets; their economy collapsed and they no longer exist. Ask the russian people still bearing the weight of such a policy years later

[tsunami surfer]

So qimaster if a person washes out of basic training because he just cant get it together militarily does that mean he is a waste to society??? I guess if a humvee runs over your foot and retires you on a medical discharge you are above him citezen ship wise.a

[myosimka]

also saying a quote doesn't make it true.


"The tree of Liberty needs to be watered from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants"-Jefferson

He also said when asked that every 12-14 years for a bloody revolution sounded about right. Thank god we only followed his advice on some things and not others. Pithy and eloquent as he may have been.

"The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose."-Shakespeare

[rogue]

Gandi may have been a pacifist but many people surrounding him were not.

Story from the Guardian 1940's (http://www.guardiancentury.co.uk/1940-1949/Story/0,6051,127527,00.html)

"Americans don't have the courage to come here," Mullah Mohammed Omar, leader of the Taliban who right about now is getting jiggy with his first of 70 virgins.

“Are you guys ready? Let’s roll.� Last words of Todd Beamer heard over his mobile line right before rushing a hijacker.

[jjj]

Myosimka you are right. I think we can solve our problems using your non-aggressive resistance approach. It worked for Ghandi right? In fact, I think we could have saved alot of lives and avoided world war II using this approach. I am sure Hitler would have been satisfied once he conquered all his neihbors. Even if Hitler did conquer the USA, I am sure he would have allowed us to protest peacefully right? Yeah, and we should have just had a peaceful demonstration to protest the Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbor. Maybe we should have just had a peaceful protest in front of the remains of the WTC instead of bombing. Who wants to go to Kabul with me to protest terrorism? Anybody? LOL

All we are saying... is give peace a chance.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"It's not really NHB because they won't let me bring a platoon of Navy SEAL's with Blackhawk fire support into the ring!"
-Watchman

[tsunami surfer]

http://boards.infopop.net/infopop/icons1/icon6.gifRogue see what you started(jokin)

[tsunami surfer]

**** how do you get the icons onto a message. Im an internet retardâ€*

[rogue]

All I did was post some security tips. The Evil Kung Lek&#153 is the one that hijacked this thread. **** Canadians!!! ;)

"Americans don't have the courage to come here," Mullah Mohammed Omar, leader of the Taliban who right about now is getting jiggy with his first of 70 virgins.

“Are you guys ready? Let’s roll.� Last words of Todd Beamer heard over his mobile line right before rushing a hijacker.

[myosimka]

Rogue- you can't be arguing that the demonstrators you mention constitute a strong military. Especially not in comparison to the British forces. Your contention earlier was "Pacifism is a luxery provided by a strong military." I contend that you still haven't proven that. Ghandi never viewed it as a luxury but rather as a moral imperative. Also, Indians had been rioting against the British for generations. Didn't work. The shift was the widespread movement led by Ghandi which was a non-violent resistance movement. It worked.

JuiJitsuJedi- Never said non-violence was the only solution or even the best in all cases. Point is it has worked in cases against superior military force. I certainly have no problem with a violent resolution in some cases.(Indians had their means of ousting the Brits, we had ours.) But it has worked in some cases. I am not leaping to sweeping, ridiculous generalizations in your argument, please use the same rules of logic in responding to mine. Arguments in absurdia are only valid if I make statements like "all" or "if, then" which imply absolutes. I never said pacifism would always work, simply that it is not a luxury.


Both of you-the point is this: It's not a luxury. In many cases, it's actually a far more difficult response. It's a moral stance. One you may disagree with. But it is certainly not a luxury. Does it always work? Nope. Does it always fail? Nope. I don't believe that Socrates, Ghandi, Martin Luther King Jr., or the biggie: Christ, made easy choices and it certainly wasn't a 'luxery provided by a strong military'. In fact, I doubt I could have made the same choices that each of those men made.(Stupid people pi$$ me off too badly.) And I admire them all the more for it.

Lastly, the post was originally in response to qimaster and I have this to say on that score. I hope that I can be a tenth the citizen that each of the aforementioned men was. It's a pretty good goal

[myosimka]

Thanks for the original post. Any tips are welcomed.

I choose not to live that way as I think the paranoia would reduce my quality of life to an unacceptable level and, as a nontarget, I think the threat level doesn't warrant that response but those tips were definitely something to think about.

[Mokujin]

Myosimka-

He [Thomas Jefferson] also said when asked that every 12-14 years for a bloody revolution sounded about right. Thank god we only followed his advice on some things and not others. Pithy and eloquent as he may have been.

I've always believed this quote from Jefferson is a statement of fact, not his advice. To sum it up, there will always be war- plain and simple. I expected something like 911 would occur- it was only a matter of time. It was a bloody war that gives us all the freedoms Americans enjoy today as the United States.

I am certainly not an expert on Ghandi, but isn't he still not allowed back into his home country?

Some things are worth fighting for.

BTW Myosimka, do you study martial arts?

Peace!
:D

My apologies to Rogue for being off topic again! ;)

[Kung Lek]

Ok, ok ok... I'm Canadian :D

Overall I think this thread has been a pretty good one.
One of the few where the discussion is heated and the debate is fiery and the tangents are drifting but still everyone is cool.

That in itself says a lot.

peace

p.s (Ghandi wanted to destroy temples that were absolute works of art that dated back to the seventh century because of the renderings of the dieties in various positions a la Kama Sutra, remind you guys of anyone?)

Also, he was a lawyer, aaaaaaaaaiiiieeee!!!! And he was assasinated so we can only hope he doesn't show up anywhere. Yikes that would be freaky.

Kung Lek

Martial Arts Links (http://members.home.net/kunglek)

[qimaster]

you cannot finish basic training. they do not give med retirements for getting your foot run over by a humvee at least to my knowledge, maybe if it resulted in an amputation they might. I am not a board member of a P.E.B. so I would not know of such things. whether or not they would discharge you, I dunno either.

If you do not wish to serve, thats fine with me.
I am just proud to have served, and feel that it has made positive difference in my life.

[Mokujin]

After that last post, my wife helped me figure out that I'm quite an idiot. For some reason I thought of the Dali Lama- not of Ghandi and got'em both confused. She educated me on the subject.

Anyway, just wanted to clear that up before somebody opened a can of whoop @ss on me!

Peace!
:D

[qimaster]

Socrates was forced to drink hemlock, self asassination.

Ghandi was asassinated, and so was Indira Ghandi years later. After Ghandi gained freedom for India, they had a civil war that created Pakistan
so that the moslem Indians would not have to live with the Buddhist and Hindu Indians. After the Yoke of British oppression was removed, all the old hatreds came seething back with a vengence.

Martin Luther King Jr. was asassinated, and that set off the watts riots I believe and practically nothing changed even to the days of the LA riots some 30 or so years later with regards to social reforms, other than creating a welfare state that held many people in bondage even to this day. The Military was the first to enforce and introduce desegregation under Truman.


Christ; after the sanhedrin had him asassinated through the auspices of the great Roman Empire, his belief system was eventually taken over by the Romans during the reign of Constantine, and the Church became the State. Constantine the great saw that by having the people believe in one god, he could more easily control them, by having himslef personified as a god, and the Holy Roman Empire was born. The pagans who once cheered at the death of christians, now became the christian who cheered at the death of pagans.

those great men, and many more I am sure, were all eventually murdered by the State, and their deaths then caused a greater upheaval.

[rogue]

If any think you're not a target let's hear from everyones favorite tango...

"We do not differentiate between those dressed in military uniforms and civilians; they are all targets in this fatwa."

If we're all gonna be targets, we all might as well be counter-terrorists.

"Americans don't have the courage to come here," Mullah Mohammed Omar, leader of the Taliban


There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change; it is, 'To use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wounds, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time.' Patton

[Watchman]

Constantine the great saw that by having the people believe in one god, he could more easily control them, by having himslef personified as a god, and the Holy Roman Empire was born.

Not to disparage your post, but since this thread is getting hijacked right and left, I thought I'd do my History Geek&trade; duty (since Anarcho is slacking off) and correct one minor point here:

Constantine wasn't the originator of the Holy Roman Empire, although he laid the foundation for the Catholic Church.

The originator of the Holy Roman Empire was Charlemagne the Great, King of the Franks, who gobbled up the Burgundians, Saxons, Lombards, and a few other neighboring German feifdoms, and declared himself emporer circa late 700's AD.

[tnwingtsun]

>Roman empire at its height couldnt have existed without it<

And South Korea would be the workers paradise
without the draft.

All of you non-mil gandie/dali-lama buckets
of pacifast civilian be advised,my statis
just got upgraded from in-active Reserve
to Reserve as of today.

Thank God they're sending me to a LRSU(LRRP)unit
where I belong
as opposed to a 71/LIMA Admin. unit.

I'll be training the youngiens to shoot and scoot,

maybe they'll let me in on some fun.

My head feels nice.

Talk all you want,I've got a job to do.......

[Kung Lek]

tnwingtsun-

you would do well to at least watch a few episodes of band of brothers if you ain't gonna read 'bout stuff.

Maybe you could temper your "bravado" with it.

And Actually,regarding christianity the Apostle Paul started it all. Constantine then chose Christianity as the state religion of rome and rammed it down everyones throat. Tarlamagne kept the ball rolling. and then the long line of popes.

Learning is a generational thing as is the building of a concept.

peace

Kung Lek

Martial Arts Links (http://members.home.net/kunglek)

[JWTAYLOR]

Kunk Lek,

many Christian Churches existed while Paul was still Saul and doing his d@mndest to kill them. Some of the churches he started, but many were around before the scales fell off his eyes. That is, according to the books he authored anyway.

JWT

If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV

[rogue]

Kung Lek, many of us who read A Band of Brothers were inspired by that book. War is never easy or clean, but once there books like Black Hawk Down and BoB show what can be accomplished.

"Americans don't have the courage to come here," Mullah Mohammed Omar, leader of the Taliban


There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change; it is, 'To use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wounds, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time.' Patton

[Kung Lek]

Are you mil guys all in the same room? :D

I get the feeling I'm being monitored by the ...........................

Kung Lek

Martial Arts Links (http://members.home.net/kunglek)

[tnwingtsun]

>you would do well to at least watch a few episodes of band of brothers if you ain't gonna read 'bout stuff.<

I read "A Band of Brothers" when it first came out.
My great Uncle is
Col.(Lt.Gen Retired) Robert F Sink,506th PIR's
first commander,he passed away when I was one years old.

My "bravado" as you put it was tempered years ago
when a good friend of mine had a 762X39 North Korean round blow out his chest when I was 18 years old.

I was standing ten feet away from him.
I do not look forward to ever jumping into a hot DZ again nor having people I know getting killed
or taking a human life again.

Its not about "bravado",its not about God and
country,its not about flag waving and pay back.

Its to me about making sure your people don't die
as they carry out the mission through the
objective,whatever it may be.

When I said maybe they'll let me in on the fun,
maybe I should have explained something to you,
when you've been with a certain unit and formed a bond you don't want to be left behind,you want to stay with your "Brothers".
My Uncle Bob(Robert F Sink) passed up many promotions during WW2 because he wanted to
stay with his brainchild,the 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment and did until it was disbanded.

Besides,the mission of LRSU units is to stay in the shadows and make no noise what so ever unless discovered.

My biggest challange is getting though my injury
and passing the Med exaim so I can be with my "Brothers"

[rogue]

Aww we like ya Kung, we understand that you're Canadian. :p

Also we know where you live, Watchman, your turn to eyeball him.

"Americans don't have the courage to come here," Mullah Mohammed Omar, leader of the Taliban


There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change; it is, 'To use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wounds, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time.' Patton

[tsunami surfer]

kind of funny how qimaster backpedaled from "if you dont serve you dont deserve citezenship" to hey its cool lets change the subject. Hey T are you working with the LRSU unit from cartersville Ga???
I have 2 friends who served in that unit a few years ago.¸

[tsunami surfer]

Oh and qimaster I recieced a honarable discharge. I noticed your little jab. try reading the post. You said you were medicaly retired as an E-5. The way you post you sounded like the usual spit-shined lifer that knew all the regs but couldn't lead simple map and compass exersice.c

[tnwingtsun]

>Hey T are you working with the LRSU unit from cartersville Ga???
I have 2 friends who served in that unit a few years ago.<

Yeppers,thats the one!!

As a matter of fact I got hurt in Rome GA.
last year,thats whats holding me back.C:WINDOWSDesktopLUFT506small.gif null