Praying Mantis Gen Kwan Dao Form

[masherdong]

Hello all,

Just curious if any one knew where I can get a video of the general kwan dao form for the praying mantis system. Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks

[gunglihchuan]

The following is the Kwan Dao set from the system I practice, Tai Chi Praying Mantis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd5sx9J3erE

Regards,

Steve

[TaichiMantis]

The following is the Kwan Dao set from the system I practice, Tai Chi Praying Mantis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd5sx9J3erE

Regards,

Steve

Performed by my kung fu uncle, Brian Cheng.:D

[masherdong]

The following is the Kwan Dao set from the system I practice, Tai Chi Praying Mantis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd5sx9J3erE

Regards,

Steve

I think that is more of the horse cutter. I'm looking for the one where the blade is wavy.

[gunglihchuan]

This is the Tai Chi Praying Mantis Kwan Dao Form.

It is not performed with the type of Kwan Dao that you are familiar with.

It is not a Ja Ma Dao or Pudao.

Spring and Autumn Big knife is another term for Kwan Dao.

I have seen my Sihing teach at least 3 people this form with a traditional Kwan Dao.

Check Sifu Tse's You tube account and you will see the horse cutting forms are much different than this one.

Even if you look at the form you can pick out "General Rides the Horse Moves."

[yu shan]

This is a great Praying Mantis System, I especially love their Beng Bu form. Nice Kwan Dao Form by the way.

[gunglihchuan]

Thank you very much.

I like Bung Bu as well. Though I would say that Lien Her Chang (Six Harmony Palm) is my favorite to perform.

[TaichiMantis]

Sifu Li Fan Fung performs the Lu Bu Gik (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKzl-ugQA7Q), famed halberd of the Warlord General Lu Bu from the Chinese Classic, Romance of the Three Kingdoms. It's not mantis but CCK TCPM has a lu bu ji form. In the last half of his article (http://i-chuan.net/pages2/Choy10.html)on Grand Ultimate Spear forms, my kung fu uncle, Prof. Randy Choy, analyzes the techniques used in halberd forms.


If you understand everything that I have just discussed, you can consider yourself an "Expert Spearsman." Of course, there are those experts who don't know about the halberd (Lu Bu Ji). The spear with a snake head and a crescent blade on the side. So let's discuss this spear form. The Taiji Preying Mantis Boxing system has a fifty-eight movement halberd (Lu Bu Ji) form. It consists of eight halberd techniques. They are: to stab (Zha), to parry (Lan), to crush (Ya), to split (Pi), to stir (Liao), to support (Jia), to move downward (Xia Bo), and to hook (Gou).

This is a very old spear style with a couple of techniques not commonly found in the basic spear forms. So let's analyze...

[Lucas]

very nice form

[Crushing Step]

Does anyone perform the kwan dao or horse knife with strength and power? They seem to come off as pretty impressive in the movies, and rather lackluster in person imho.

[alextse4]

does anyone perform the kwan dao or horse knife with strength and power? They seem to come off as pretty impressive in the movies, and rather lackluster in person imho.

if you check my account [alextse4] in youtube,you can find all what you want.

[alextse4]

I just taught a young man this 7 stars mantis spring & autumn dai dao.
I haven't seen a completed form performance since 1982.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXZMPg2KbMQ

[Crushing Step]

I just taught a young man this 7 stars mantis spring & autumn dai dao.
I haven't seen a completed form performance since 1982.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXZMPg2KbMQ

I'm not yet convinced, sir. Also your youtube account has over 200 videos, I am not really going to sift through them all just yet...

My opinion is these weapons would have to be swung quickly to be useful, in ancient history of course. It doesn't seem to do history much justice to have a beautiful and exotic weapon performed at walkthrough speed, especially with mantis folks who are known for speed.

I could be wrong.

[TaichiMantis]

We had our sifu day this past saturday, got to try a bunch of different weaopns. I picked up the dai dao listed in the above video...very heavy!:o

[mantid1]

Most people know that the kwan do was not used by the foot soldier and wouldnt be used in the way you see in a kf form. More than likely they developed the forms to keep some tradition alive and Its a fun way to work on strength, coordination......etc. Imagine working with a heavy weapon like the kwan do then picking up the broad sword to train with.

I tried teaching the traditional version one time....but by the time I got the horses in the school.....then realized the student didnt even know how to ride a horse.......it was an ugly sight. The clean up afterwards was terrible.

Good thing it didnt work.....I could just imagine what a heavy blade with a razor sharp edge to do to a neck at a gallop. Im sure you cold take off a head at walk wthout even swinging the thing.

I do have some vid of a guy to the kwan do up to speed with speed and power. Very impressive.

But, Im not really going to sift through all of my vids to show you just yet.

[Crushing Step]

Most people know that the kwan do was not used by the foot soldier

I guess count me out of "most people", but I do appreciate the education! This totally makes sense now. Though the much slimmer Japanese naginata was used by foot soldiers for unhorsing their enemies.


...and wouldnt be used in the way you see in a kf form.

The fastest Kwan Dao forms I've seen have been wushu practicioners, and I really don't understand teh spring steel blades, they don't communicate to me an effective cutting weapon. Am I wrong here as well?

I think this discussion does finalize for me there not really being a "traditional" need to learn this weapon anyway. I mean, not like I need to run out and fight some samurai... I just thought it was an exotic looking weapon and if the way it is taught is in fact not historically accurate, well I've just personally lost interest, that's all.

Though your experience with the horses sounds like it was a great fun...

[mantid1]

Well, if you think about it there really isnt a traditional need to learn any kf weapon. The short stick and daggers being the most applicable. I doubt you will be in the situation to use a spear or broad sword.....right?

The naginata is much lighter and was was probably designed for use by foot soldiers...but I am sure there was no law against using it on horse back.

The wushu weapons are no different that the wushu hand forms.....recreational....entertainment and i guess a sport in some way. No, I dont think that the flimsy blade will do much...but it does make it much easier to move around fast and look cool.....and the shiny satin uniform really makes it look nice.

If you think the horse experience sounds fun....you should have been there when I imported the tiger to teach the traditional use of the Tiger fork....Before that time I had always thought that having a left arm was a waste anyway...so I only buy one glove now. There is always a bright side to every story.

[Crushing Step]

Well, if you think about it there really isnt a traditional need to learn any kf weapon.

Agreed that there is no NEED to do so, right on. In fact I was reading quite a few posts by some of the Budo guys that follow so much tradition, but suggest over and over again that there is no need to practice with live blades.

To me personally with something like the kwan dao, I still wanted to believe that it's practice was something that may have been practical at one time, you know, some sense of history. But to take an ancient horse mounted weapon and make up a hand form, well, you've just ruined it for me thanks!

[Young Mantis]

JJMantis,

Growing up watching Chinese gung fu films, this has always been one of my favorite weapons along with the 3 sectional staff. It just looks really intimidating and cool.

I don't necessarily agree with the account that the weapon was only ever used on horseback. While the original design and implementation for it might have been, I do believe it was also adapted for use on the ground and there are many styles with traditional forms for this weapon, Northern Praying Mantis included.

I just posted a video of myself on Youtube performing the Chiu Chuk Kai lineage long handled broadsword form. I don't claim to be very good but it does show how this weapon is taught by our Sifu, Master Tony Chuy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUJXrrAuSkY

Don't give up on this weapon. It is not all just flash and no substance. I still very much enjoy training this weapon. Besides this solo form, there are also weapon sparring forms with the long handled broadsword as well.

Good luck,

Vance Young

[Crushing Step]

Thanks for sharing Vance! And just to clarify, I don't have a complete love loss for old style weapons, and I agree that done with power the kwan dao does have a certain intimidation factor.

Jason