Weapons Training.

[AdrianK]

What do you feel are the advantages of training the Butterfly Swords and the pole?

Or any other KF weapon, for that matter?

And given the advantages, do you feel there are any other, more modern ways to train them?

Many people compare butterfly swords to knife fighting, but then why not just practice knife fighting, and forget the butterfly swords?


Do traditional chinese weapons forms have any place in modern martial arts, or are they simply relics of the olden days?

[TenTigers]

many things are still "hidden" within Gung-Fu practice. I don't think they are so much hidden as that they found out multiple uses for things, which became possibly lost or neglected.
The pole teaches aspects of power generation. The butterfly knives convey extension. Extension of technique, of mind, and of awareness.
In some styles of Gung-Fu, the weapon sets practiced empty handed reveal techniques not found within the hand sets.

[Vajramusti]

When properly learned, they enhance your wing chun motions, footwork, balance, coordination and many other goodies.

Ip Man did not teach the knives and the pole to everyone and the differences show IMO.

joy chaudhuri

[couch]

Donald from Halifax Wing Chun (a friend of mine out here on the East Coast) is of Fong lineage. I like his explanation of the weapons.

He says that the pole is a single-two-handed weapon of opportunity. The swords are two-single-handed weapons of opportunity.

While I like that explanation, the way I see my pole and sword forms are that they do enhance my open hand stuff and vice versa. The reason is due to the amount of hip, torque and linking of my joints that is required when practicing with weapons.

If you really try and hit somebody or something with weapons in hand, you realize quickly how much torque it requires and how it's hard to control a weapon in motion!

[Vajramusti]

What is Donald's last name. Just curious.
I dont know anyone in Halifax- nice town- a ship
sailing from Southampton, UK,that I was on ages ago
touched port there/

Thx, Joy

[k gledhill]

Knowing the weapons is essential to any student for several reasons...

[chusauli]

Why not do both knifefighting and WCK weapons forms?

Actually, when I researched different variations of Escrima and Arnis, they do all the 8 angles and variations of thrusts we do with the knives. But the length of the weapons and weight of them varies. That will have an effect on what you can do...

As for polefighting, much of it is lost in WCK these days and only used as a training tool by most, unless they really sparred with the weapon, and learned spear methods as well.

[David Jamieson]

they are both good weapons for a multi opponent brawl.

other than that, all tcma weapons training is antiquated and quaint, but ultimately useless in this day and age where the gun wins always in a weapons confrontation.

knives are for poor people.

[k gledhill]

simple pole sparring drills can help know positioning and the punch will improve , for starters ;)
learning angling etc...


Knives teach a different fighting distance to empty hands, different footwork for greater mobility in long entry and evasion attacking a pole and covering it as you do so...the knife footwork can x over to maintaining pressure on guy who is using large steps to evade your bare hand attacks...all goes into learning to

ATTACK :D

[TenTigers]

knives and pole can also be thought of as analogous to distance and range and the weapons and how they are used strategically. The pole keeps a person at a specific range and has specific techniuques for such. The knives are meant to get inside that range. As a bare-handed fighter, you also have diffeent ranges and appropriate weapons and techniques for them.
There are many levels to understanding.

[Lucas]

there are numerous beneficial elements that weapon training can provide.

most of wich you can get without the weapon training.

really the only thing weapon training can provide you with that empty hand training cannot, is the awareness and familiarity of actually handling a particular weapon, and the uses of the weapon. specifically the differences involved in weapon fighting versus empty hand fighting. there are similarties but there are also drastic differences between the two types of combat.

for instance, i love the straight sword. i have a wushu steel sword, a wooden sword, a practice blade and a live blade.

wood for sparring, wushu steel for starting (started to learn on wushu steel and now i dont even look at it), practice blade for not cutting myself whilst working form/technique at high speeds, and a live blade for awareness and form.


oops, lunch time!