the father (mother?) of all Hong Quan long fist styles

[Sal Canzonieri]

This is a VERY RARE video of the entire LiuBujia set from the Da Hong Quan style from the areas of the Yellow River basin.
It goes very far back, and it is one of the oldest long fist martial arts.

It is thought that General Zhao Kuangyin practiced this material, since many soldiers of his era from the Luoyang area practiced it.
As you can see, it very much looks like an early protype for the Hong Quan later practiced in Shaolin and the Lao Hong Quan that is practiced in Dengfang area near Shaolin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kJ8unUIlgM

[Sal Canzonieri]

大鸿拳 da hong quan big vast fist -
The legend of the founding of this style traces the origins at the Sui dynasty by Hong Xian 鸿仙.
During the Tang Dynasty, there are historical documents that attest that a teacher of Jilin, Liu Fengguai 刘风拐 (also known as Liu Banxiang 刘半响), taught a boxing divided into six sections that has been identified with the Taolu known as Liu bu jia 六步架, the basic structure of the Hongquan. this set is sometimes known as the San Huang Bang as well.

In the xinshu 纪效新书 of the famous of General Qi Jiguang 戚继光 says "in the boxing family's dynasty of Song Taizu's 32 shi changquan 三十二势长拳, there is also the Liubuquan六步拳, the Hou quan 猴拳 (monkey boxing), the Hua quan 化拳 . . .". The Liubuquan is identified with the Liubujia.

During the Song dynasty, the Yuan dynasty, and the Ming dynasty Liubujia has spread dramatically in the basin of the Yellow River, giving life to many variations. Lao yang area practices this Da Hong Quan still today, as does the Kaifeng area of eastern China.

This style has only a few short sets, and most of them are done in pairs. It has many drills (known as Chui, hammers).

During the Song Dynasty era, sometimes this style was called Black Tiger Boxing.
It became known as Da Hong Quan by the beginning of the Ming Dynasty. The original name was simply Liubujia, 6 Step Frame (frames were what sets were called, before full fledged Routines came into existence, Frames are a collection of drills linked together, it is a group of postures).

All sub-styles of Da Hongquan share their basic structure as "San Huang Bang", which shows their common origin, despite legends to identify different foundation. Wudang Hong Quan, Er Hong Quan, and Zhao Family Hong Quan all have different legends to their origins, but all share the same material, so they are obviously all arising from this original Da Hong Quan (Big Vast Fist). The character for Vast also means Wild Goose.

[Shaolinstudent]

excuse me, but if this is the real precursor form to Xiaohongquan or Dahongquan and I was the Abbot I wouldn't want anyone to know that our gong fu looked like that before we reformed and restructured it into the devasting style that it is today. I would have made sure that that form was for a long time never ever seen. But now that the form has been 'revived' they can say: "Man the gong fu we knew last week was horrible! But this new gong fu is the kind that will make us legendary" Even though, I would still forget that form ever existed.

[Shaolinstudent]

excuse me, but if this is the real precursor form to Xiaohongquan or Dahongquan and I was the Abbot I wouldn't want anyone to know that our gong fu looked like that before we reformed and restructured it into the devasting style that it is today. I would have made sure that that form was for a long time never ever seen. But now that the form has been 'revived' they can say:

"Man the gong fu we knew last week was horrible! But this new gong fu is the kind that will make us legendary"

Even though, I would still forget that form ever existed.

[Sal Canzonieri]

excuse me, but if this is the real precursor form to Xiaohongquan or Dahongquan and I was the Abbot I wouldn't want anyone to know that our gong fu looked like that before we reformed and restructured it into the devasting style that it is today. I would have made sure that that form was for a long time never ever seen. But now that the form has been 'revived' they can say:

"Man the gong fu we knew last week was horrible! But this new gong fu is the kind that will make us legendary"

Even though, I would still forget that form ever existed.

You must be a real newbie, that's for sure. Or else you would clearly be able to see that his ancient Da Hong Quan would wipe any modern Hong Quan player off the map.
And, this is not a "revived" set, it's been documented and handed down for many hundreds of years before Shaolin boxing even existed.

Anyways, the Shaolin Xiao and Da Hong Quan practiced today is a fragment of what it was originally like when it was first developed, or actually brought to Shaolin really, by Li Sou during the 1400s. The Xiao Hong quan set is just an abbreviation of the version that was taught even about 60 years ago. It is missing the whole first section now and many movements here and there in the set which were once there.

[Sal Canzonieri]

Another version of the set, done faster by a different person:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-sQ7T5a9pI

Compare to a better performed version of Shaolin Da Hong Quan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQbZsgJ-pb4

You will see that much of the set matches in not only postures but some sequences of movements. This tells you that the Big Vast Fist (San Huang Bang / Liu Ba Jia set) was ancestral to the Shaolin set.

[sha0lin1]

Thanks for sharing Sal. I saw elements of Tai Tzu in there as well. Great research. I wonder though if the first guy made some mistake because he ended his form facing the other way.

[Shaolinstudent]

Nice that vid was pretty cool. You can tell that was done before Xiao or Da Hong quan. but are the sets the same or the same form by two different people...by people I mean sects?

[Sal Canzonieri]

Thanks for sharing Sal. I saw elements of Tai Tzu in there as well. Great research. I wonder though if the first guy made some mistake because he ended his form facing the other way.

Yes, it should be in there since it was what the military advisers who helped Shaolin develop the Taizu Chang Quan set most likely practiced way back then (963 AD).

Hmm, this form starts off not straight to the audience, but facing your right, then it moves to the right and then to the left.
he just might have been stepping around a little too far over.

The Pao Quan sets finish with the back to the audience, because if you do all of them in a row, the last set brings you back the right way.
Which means that the way the Pao Quan was originally done was all the sets in a row with no space between then (hence they are really sections of one big set).

By the way, Shaolin Pao Quan was not a separate style, but a series of sets within the Shaolin Hong Quan system, along with a series of other sets, including the Taizu Chang Quan set and others. The Da Hong Quan style that eventually reached Shaolin was originally a system, of sets and weapons routines.

[Sal Canzonieri]

Nice that vid was pretty cool. You can tell that was done before Xiao or Da Hong quan. but are the sets the same or the same form by two different people...by people I mean sects?

Well, the two Big Vast Fists sets are the same form by two different people.
The Shaolin Da Hong Quan I posted the link too was a traditional old version of section one of Shaolin Da hong Quan (there are about 5 more sections in total, but they are rarely taught today at Shaolin).

[brianlkennedy]

If I may ask, you mention that:

“there are historical documents that attest that a teacher of Jilin, Liu Fengguai 刘风拐 (also known as Liu Banxiang 刘半响), taught a boxing divided into six sections that has been identified with the Taolu known as Liu bu jia 六步架, the basic structure of the Hongquan. this set is sometimes known as the San Huang Bang as well”.


What is the title of these historical documents, where did you see these documents and what makes you think they are authentic.

I am asking simply as a historian who has a strong interest in historical Chinese martial arts documents..

Take care,
Brian

[Tainan Mantis]

Like Brian I am also researching these old traditions.

I would also like to hear what books and documentation exists.
In particular I have noticed several references to Zhao Kuangying having transmitted martial arts.

Besides mouth to ear transmission what other documentation exists showing or stating that the first Song emperor trained empty hand fighting or passed it down?

[Lucas]

Thanks for posting Sal, some pretty striking resembelances there. i wish i have a video of my shaolin da hong quan so you could give me some insight as to how much i have. i was taught 2 versions (by the same teacher), and since combined them. :eek:

i always loved the internal quality of that shaolin da hong quan video. that old guy has some zip !

[Shaolin]

Thanks for sharing Sal. I saw elements of Tai Tzu in there as well. Great research. I wonder though if the first guy made some mistake because he ended his form facing the other way.

Routine 2 of Da Hong finishes with back facing audience and routine 3 starts back facing audience. If these sets are a precursor to modern Da Hong and we put two and two together I would guess he intentionally finished back facing audience.

Great post by the way Sal I really appreciate all the research you do for Shaolin players.

[wuseng33]

hey sal always enjoy reading your research and thoughts on different taolu, history and the like. was interested in your thoughts along with anyone else about these forms of xiao hong and da hong from the shaolin wu gu lun sect. do you think the original hong quan sets would of had more similarities to some of these? i noticed compared to the older hong quan you posted before that the toes pointed upwards on the out stretched foot when dropping to the ground same as the wugulun posture however have never seen other shifu's from shaolin teach it this way? any thoughts?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Pf8yrXy0ws
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMGO2iIgx6I&feature=related

[Lucas]

i cannot comment on that aspect much, but i was also taught by my sifu with the toes pointing up. one of the reasons described for this was your momentum will carry you inside for a handsweep/takedown/throw. we were actually taught it 3 ways, one with a flat foot, one with a flat foot then rotating up and a third starting with the toes up with a kind of 'glide'. each of course representing different aspects of application. you can also feel the difference in allignment when you carry forward with toes up vs flat footed.

my sifu learned his shaolin in a cambodian monestary however and not at shaolin. how many generations the material was housed in that particular monestary, i do not know.

i learned my shaolin from Sifu Duy Minh Tran (http://www.ckfa-wushu.com/sifu.htm)

[Royal Dragon]

VERY INTERESTING!!!

Sal, do you remember a style we were discussing a while back, that supposedly was built on Zhao Kuang Yin's arts? Wensengquan I think it was? Looking at this form, I can clearly see where all the shuffle steps came from in it. Also, I see the Plow hammer, and several other primordial Tai Tzu, Lao Hongquan techniques in this. The way he is performing them makes me think I have the applications wrong.

This is an incredible find, I have to say I am seeing all sorts of connections with this.

Honestly, as soon as I have time, i need to work this set out, and get a feel for it.

We are going to have to get together and go over this new material, I see some real treasures in this set, especially for those of us who are interested specifically in Zhao Kuang yin's arts.

[mickey]

Greetings,

Though the form is interesting, it looks resurrected: as if it was extracted from a book. I say this because while the postures are strong and definite, the transitions are weak, making me also think that if this did not come from a book, it was a foundaton, stance training, form. Or (lightbub turning on, y'all), it could have been paced and structured that way for mass military training.

The Black Tiger connection was interesting. I can see the powerful reverse punches.

Thank you for the share, Sal,

mickey

[Royal Dragon]

Well, back in the time this style was prevelant, forms were not very common. My understanding is that most styles were taught through series of drills and exercises, so a form that old should look like a bunch of much shorter drills strung together, rather than a modern looking form.

[Sal Canzonieri]

Greetings,

Though the form is interesting, it looks resurrected: as if it was extracted from a book. I say this because while the postures are strong and definite, the transitions are weak, making me also think that if this did not come from a book, it was a foundaton, stance training, form. Or (lightbub turning on, y'all), it could have been paced and structured that way for mass military training.

The Black Tiger connection was interesting. I can see the powerful reverse punches.

Thank you for the share, Sal,

mickey

It's not a form, forms existed much later in time, let's say Ming dynasty just to make everyone happy.

It's a "Jia", a "Frame", Jia preceded forms, "Quan". A Jia or Frame was a set of movements arranged in a row, you practiced each movement separately as a drill, the concepts of the style are practiced on the "Frame" set.

Forms like we know them are smooth "Lianhuan" or "Linking" of movements such that the transitions are free flowing. Which is what term, "Chang Quan" meant, a long flow of movements.

Chang Quan was considered a major innovation.
Thus, the Shaolin Taizu Chang Quan set, is considered their oldest FOUNDATION, their Grand Ancestor, from which all their subsequent sets are based on.
(It's not named after Song Taizu Zhang Kuangyin, which would have illegal to do, plus he wasn't called that until after his death).

[Sal Canzonieri]

If I may ask, you mention that:

“there are historical documents that attest that a teacher of Jilin, Liu Fengguai 刘风拐 (also known as Liu Banxiang 刘半响), taught a boxing divided into six sections that has been identified with the Taolu known as Liu bu jia 六步架, the basic structure of the Hongquan. this set is sometimes known as the San Huang Bang as well”.


What is the title of these historical documents, where did you see these documents and what makes you think they are authentic.

I am asking simply as a historian who has a strong interest in historical Chinese martial arts documents..

Take care,
Brian

I'm sorry I haven't been able to answer, I have been in the hospital for a week and just got out a few days ago. I'm very sick and have to get a serious operation in a few months.

Anyways, yeah, almost every source I read about this particular Da Hong Quan material (The LiuBu Jia or the San Huang Bang) has this same quote about Liu Fengguai 刘风拐 being the first known person to teach this material.

If you can please get a hold of the book "Da Hong Quan" ISBN 7-5009-2857-2.

Hu Guangfeng胡光锋, Shizhan Jueji - Mi Jie Sanhuangbang 实战绝技-三晃膀秘解 (Combat Skill: detailed explanation of the secrets of Sanhuangbang), Hubei Kexue Jishu chubanshe, 2006, ISBN 9787535236159

Also, these articles:

# 陕西红拳要重振昔日辉煌 Shaanxi hongquan yao chongzhen xiri huihuang article published in the newspaper Xi'an wanbao 西安晚报 March 27, 2006

# José Carmona, De Shaolin à Wudang, les arts martiaux chinois, Gui Trenadiel editeur. ISBN 2.844445.085.7 ISBN 2.844445.085.7

# Hu Guangfeng 胡光锋, Tujie dahongquan St. huang bang 图解大洪拳三晃膀 series of articles published in 2005 in the journal Jingwu 精武.

# 沛县武当洪拳源流 Peixian wudang hongquan yuanliu

# Peixian Wushu Zhi 沛县武术志 , Peixian , 2000


--------------------

Da Hong quan 大鸿拳

The legend of the founding of this style traces the origins at the Sui dynasty by Hong Xian 鸿仙. During the Tang Dynasty, there are historical documents that attest that a teacher of Jilin, Liu Fengguai 刘风拐 (also known as Liu Banxiang 刘半响), taught a boxing divided into six sections that has been identified with the Taolu known as Liu bu jia 六步架, the basic structure of the Hongquan. In the xinshu 纪效新书 of the famous of General Qi Jiguang 戚继光 says "in the boxing family's dynasty of Song Taizu's 32 shi changquan 三十二势长拳, there is also the Liubuquan六步拳, the Hou quan 猴拳 (monkey boxing), the Hua quan 化拳 . . .". The Liubuquan is identified with the Liubujia. During the Song dynasty, the Yuan dynasty, and the Ming dynasty Liubujia has spread dramatically in the basin of the Yellow River, giving life to many variations. Lao yang area practices this Da Hong Quan still today.

到了清朝，大鸿拳经历代拳师的丰富和发展，逐渐形成派系。仅灵关县一位姓任的拳师传于河北深县人李泰的鸿拳 拳械套路就有几十套。其中徒手单练的有六步架， 二步架，“8”字步拳；徒手对练有靠臂捶，长打捶，十二捶，十四捶，十八捶，外扒眉等；器械单练套路有鞭， 太平刀，双刀，六路大刀，枪，棍，剑，绳标等； 器械对练套路有盘龙棍，双刀枪，单刀枪，白手夺枪，白手夺刀，大梢子对枪，三节棍对枪，四节子镗对枪，六进 单刀，双锏对枪，滚肚枪，一百单八枪等；功法有 用功过气法，临敌应计法，老嫩救活法，百步捶法和定身法（即：擒拿控制法）。

大鸿拳交手十加一法秘要（六步架拳谱）
大鸿拳交手十加一法秘要
　　一、审势法
　　
　　审势，乃克敌制胜的前提也。是以眼光审察姿势的一种方法。其大致有二：对己来说是蓄势；对对方来说是乘 势。初学时先学蓄热势，如鸷的将击，卑飞敛羽。 兽之将扑，缩爪牙神定眼捷，人的将搏，束身经待敌隙。人身欲动，其肩必耸，此为不移定理也。若与人交手，必 须以目先注即为审势。只要将势审定，动与不动决 策于自己。彼不动时我不动，彼欲动时我先动。此是指战法来说的，谓之先发制人。要做到，静如山岳，动如风， 守之如处女，犯之如猛虎。
　　名师、拳家眼法各有不同，有的视对方的胸膛，谓之眼位；有的视对的手尖与物尖，有的视对方的目光。以上 各种方法各有其秒，不可妄评，大鸿拳是以目注目为鹄，手尖与手尖不注自注，眼力到处其威逼人。
　　
　　二、进身法
　　
　　进法，有以进为进，以退为进，随进、闪进、截进、诈进者也。进法自身必须保持一个整体，手眼身法步贯通 一气。可根据对方远近老嫩，灵活择取法进。
　　上法以手为妙，进法以足为奇，身法以活为要。手法与足法，取其轻利稳固，万万不可习成滞气，以身陷于败 地。所谓滞报不打人者，此之说也。手之出入不离 口，中之进退紧随手。足随手起，手随足落。手起在人而落于已，足起在人而落过于人。起手如丹凤朝阳之势，两 手前后互应。进步要抢上抢下直，善用踩劲。手起 撩阴，脚打膝分，膝起望怀，肘发护心，上下相随，手是两扇门，全凭脚赢人。但须明三节，齐四稍，闭五行，身 法灵活，手足齐上，而后再视其宽窄，老嫩，一动 而即是也，但须手到脚到，有一不到打中也无用，此至理也。
　　弱者我知其能逼，强者我知其宜防。何以知之？练功于掌拳者，其手臂较一般人粗粝；劲功于腿足者，其步法 比一般人轻固；精于外壮者，其体质必魁梧；神于 内功者，其筋络多干枯；矮小之人，防其用腿；昂蔽大汉，必贯使拳；见其次势，即知破其法门；发我手足，还当 顾我周身；遇隙即攻，见空必补，此方称知识之 高，亦必能挫败敌方。无论哪法，务必以泰山压顶之势，迅雷不及掩耳一动即至。然其方法亦有六焉：功、顺、勇 、疾、恨、真也。功巧妙也，顺自然也，勇果断 也，疾紧急也，恨愤怒也，动不容情心，一颤而内劲出也。真者，视之真确，一发必中，而彼措手不及难以变化矣 。此六法既明，上法与进法必然自得矣。
　　然见其有隙可趁，而不敢攻，知其有空可进而不敢进，乃胆怯之症。胆小即无果断之心，胆大能胜谦人之技。 恐怖于中，必畏缩于外，故乘其怯，必攻其虚；我 见其虚，反攻其怯，转败为胜，反弱为强。此有泰山崩于前而色不变者，能视锋刃如不见，不屈不挠，艺高而胆大 。常言道，技弱胆壮泼辣者，可击败技高胆小之 人。故战则“勇”字当头，方能寻得战机智主动。
　　拳经曰：身以滚而起，手以滚而出，身进脚手随，三节自可齐。动稍节必先动根节，中节不明四稍发空，此至 理也。
　　诀曰：进步捷如风，失机退宜快，
　　乘势侧锋入，身稍向前迈，
　　掌实即需吐，发声似惊怪，
　　变化似蛟龙，迟速分胜败。
　　
　　三、出手法
　　
　　引敌出手诀曰：“出手引手，见手使手，不见手不使手，见手必使手，见手不使手，必然要失手。”当与敌交 手时，要敌不动我不动，敌微动我先动，不着不 发，一着即发。务必做到“出手软如绵，着身硬如铁。去是一条线，来是一大片。出手不见手，拳打人不知。”出 手秘诀曰：善用刚者如晴蜓点水，一落即起。使掌 要喷掌而出，使脚时亦如从口中出，喷脚而出，蹬踩敌大腿内侧，彼则失其还力。故交手诀曰：远用踢打，近用摔 拿；远了使上手，近了使用肘；远了用脚踢，近了 使用膝；能要一时进，莫要一时存，能意莫带形，带形必难赢。
　　
　　四、固手法
　　
　　固手与出手相对也，乃指控制、闪化或躲避敌之进攻也。
　　盖固法者，顺力固、横力固、逆力固、躲闪固也。顺力固，乃为顺其劲而固之，谓之借力防守也。顺固可使其 失去平衡处于被动，为我反击创造条件也。横力 固，乃是以横破直之法。横固可使其来手偏离我身，而失效处于被动，任我攻发也。逆力固，乃为在紧张快速的交 手中，来不及闪化，则迎其进攻之手，反其方向之 予以遮拦、阻挡、格架，使其进手遇阻，不能近我之法也。躲闪，乃为交手时以灵活的身法，步型、步法，变化， 躲开对手攻击之法。
　　固手者，欲收到防御好的效果，则务必注意固中节，走两翼，识虚招也。固中节者，则为控制膝肘关节是也。 膝肘被控乃则受制矣。走两翼者，谓之走偏门。走 偏门可使我之双手及正面而对对手之一侧面也，乃形成力量之悬殊，利于我之反攻也。识虚招者，乃为识别假动作 、了解试探之手或认识诱引招法也。虚招不识易落 入圈套，造成失败也，声东击西，指上打下，乃为工业基础招常见表现形式也。交手时，“避实不避虚，打实不打 虚，”乃为真诀也。
　　固手者顾法、克法、截法、追法也。盖顾法者，单顾，双顾，上顾，下顾，前后顾，左右顾也。单顾要用截手 ；双顾要用横掌；顾上用通天炮；顾下用握地炮， 顾前后用梢捶，或用斩拳；顾左右用括身炮。克法者，左克，右克，硬功夫克，软克也。左克用里括；右克用外括 ；硬克用灵活而有弹性的刚劲；软克用随势打势， 化力法的软劲，但其妙手存乎于心。截法者，截手，截身，截言，截面，截心五法而已。截手，彼先动手，我可以 手截之；截身，彼身欲动末动，我以先动而截之； 截言，言露其意，我即截之；截面，面露其色我即截之；截心，彼眉喜面笑，言甘貌恭，我应察其有心无心，彼若 有心，我要迎机截之。
　　解曰：面笑不动唇，提防有意人。至于追法，上法，进法，可一气贯注。即所谓随身紧凑，追风赶月而不放松 ，彼欲逃走而不能，何患有其他杂技而自卫。
　　
　　五、还手法
　　
　　末交手即气聚神凝，气擎不散，两手交搁胸前，看他哪脚在前，即贴近身，一边注意他的膀根，制住他的膀， 此即闪门之法，以待他的动静。我先出手罩住他的 膀根，一伸手便于是头手，要得不俟二手。若他先出手，我也罩住他膀根，一伸手即不得，也必顾住他手，另觅打 法，不至于迟而又生变，此法乃开寸离尺之巧，即 罩住他膀根开一寸则手梢已离我一尺。或遇捷手，退晃打我，我不换手，不屈臂摧二气打之。或我击他右，他退左 进右，我不回手，挪打他右膀根。总之，我在圈内 他在圈外，他以劳我以逸，任他滑快无不奇中，此前手击而前手打之秘诀。间亦有继后手者，我则用所当用，不必 强施，若用之不当，动必横身，每见用此而败，而 迎人冲打者末见的此失也。
　　与人交手之要，务要遵循“守已之中与取彼之中”也。人体正面用谓之“中”，中者人体重心所在及重要部位 所属也，若这些要害部位任其一被击者，则有致 伤、致残、丧命之危也。若是重心偏离体外而易倾跌之，还能自然形成一种，使对方不易躲避之有利态势。正如拳 经所云：“万拳之法不离中”也。
　　
　　六、找门法
　　
　　拳之摧人必近其身，方能使敌跌出。如物藏室，不得其门，纵有神拳亦无由登堂直入，探而取之。拳之门何在 ？拳之门在手，而手之门有三，手腕一也，此为大 门；肘心二也，此进一层二门；膀根三也，此更进一层为三门。进此三门已进内院，可以登堂入室。故交手只在手 腕者，则屈伸往来，任意变幻，无穷无尽，手捷者 先得，手慢者吃亏，终不能摧人一点即倒。注意肘心者虽进一层门，未及近身，尚有变化，亦不能操必胜之权。惟 一眼注定他之膀根，不论他先出手或我先出手，只 在此处留心邀住他手粘连不离，随我变化任意指挥，无不如意，他自不能逃我范围。师云：先学理，后学艺，言不 明艺不精，理不明艺不通。

　　七、破门法
　　
　　破门即破敌顾法。当敌内功不如我时，可用大破硬功进，重捶轰击，如入无人之境，此即“大破硬进无遮拦” 之势，破门而入，直接使手击敌；当敌身无门，我 需破门而入，主动使手击敌的要诀是：顺势上步，击敌头部，敌若招架，其门即破；敌若闪化打我，我也闪化打他 ，千万不要招架，一着不中，二手即发，进步靠 身，穷追猛打。有时拗势掌明知无用，但却能引敌仰身招手，因这是人之本能，愈是不能抗打的要害部位，在受到 打击或遇到攻击时，就越想救护，这种本能不论艺 高艺低人皆有之，这就是许多使手动作中要击打敌头部的原因之一。敌顾法已破，一招连一招，一招紧一招，使敌 心惊神乱，继而乘机制敌一败涂地。破门之法中， 还有一般的抓腕和抓臂，只要两手臂稍一接触，我立翻手抓住敌腕或手臂，而且一抓就要用力，使敌被抓时感到有 股力量，敌必向相反方向抽缩、挣扎，这是人的本 能，我就借敌本能反应，破门而入，出手击敌；也可以一只手抓敌，借敌反抗之力带动我身步，松手即打；还可不 管敌反抗力量的大小，只借敌被抓时不能防护的一 瞬间，用另一只手击敌。
　　诀曰：
　　力弱踩边门，力强进中宫，
　　切忌挺身入，不宜飞腿攻，
　　挺身四象露，腿起下部空，
　　腿宜攻厄势，或可救步穷，
　　乘势一飞击，其速宜如风，
　　出手宜顾目，虚实含其中，
　　爪练宜如铁，腕骨宜如龙，
　　爪掌皆可用，最忌长拳冲，
　　纵力大于虎，擒来变化穷，
　　出足桩宜矮，进步速如风，
　　与手需想应，与目暗中通，
　　勾步分反顺，腾步认偏中，
　　猛来心勿乱，快慢要从容，
　　诸法皆练熟，运用妙无穷。
　　
　　八、诱打法
　　
　　盖诱打，诱敌深入，反手打也。敌出手打我时，不要过早地闪化，使敌误认为我尚无准备而继续打进来，当敌 手脚已接触我身，而尚末着力时，我忽然闪化并随 手击敌，此时敌使手用招的形态已暴露，不能立即回手救护，且打势已成，力量亦发，身步转换已不灵便，只有受 打。引诱多采手闪化，故意把敌拳脚放进来，使敌 手脚放长，姿势做老，打敌措手不及。引进的方法比较特殊，要顺敌手的力量和敌习贯的变化方式，自然而然地将 敌手领进，而不易被敌察觉，当敌发觉被擒拿时， 木已成舟，为时已晚。
　　
　　九、闪打法
　　
　　盖闪打，闪化即打也。闪即避也，打即击也。闪打法并非躲而闪之，躲而退之或躲而畏之。而是躲闪击打之， 避而击打之，躲闪中有击打，击打中有躲闪。闪打中闪是手段，闪的目的是为了打。闪打手段则是防御手段，又是 进攻手段。故有“躲闪灵活，进退自如”也。
　　交手中，闪化不能只避实，同时还要击其虚。兵贵神速，快中抓战机。闪化主要靠步法的闪化，其次才是身法 ，至于手法只能是防护性的动作，不能去招架。在 步法和身法闪化的同时，能不能打击敌人，这主要是看步法变化。一般说来，步法主要是向前迈、挪步、疾步或跳 跃步等。以便迫近敌人出手击打。但有时也用抽撤 转换身形，即抽身换势，特殊情况下才后撤步、挪步、疾步或跳跃步。敌攻来，闪化是上策。拳家言：“任其勇猛 气总偏，此有彼无是天然。”敌打其气与力只能偏 着一面，不能面面俱到。如败势的闪化是一抽撤，退让的拳势，其变化诀中包含着打，主要用腿，以快为先。孙子 曰：“激水之疾，至于漂石者，势也；鸷鸟之疾， 至于毁折者，节也；是故善战者，其势险，其节短。”又“故形兵之极，至于无形，无形则深间不能窥，智者不能 谋。”败势法达到无形无声的程度，顺其自然，败 中取胜，此乃闪化中之妙招。正如孙子曰：“微乎微乎，至于无形，神乎，神乎，至于无声，故能为 敌之司命。”
　　闪打之妙在于动度极小，避实就虚，方向、角度、力点突然然换，躲过锋芒，抓住时机，迅速发劲，手眼身步 ，相顺相随，一气呵成，劲向前发，捷如闪电，一往无敌，此乃又谓之惊颤之法。
　　
　　十、突袭法
　　
　　突袭法乃为出其不意,攻其不备,使其不及防也。
　　突袭之法，一般情况则不可先下手。若要抢攻须判断准确，抓住战机，乘虚而入，步法要移动快速，攻击娴熟 ，事先不露象矣。多以静待动，后发制人。敌一出 手称为一气，此时我不回手，摧二气以打之，敌再出手，我仍不回手，摧三气以打之，此即一气摧二，二摧三，出 敌不意之法也，亦叫埋伏法。其特点以逸待劳，以 静制动，乘敌之气而摧之，就是说在第一手打法中，就已准备了对敌第二手或三手的打法。打敌什么部位？只要是 门都可以，用拳打还是脚踢，随手就近，抓、拿、 摔、打可随意使用，出敌不意，敌必难防护。如：闪化即打是最简单的埋伏突袭法，打法简单，速度较快，且多连 续进行，但有时威力不大，只能起调动敌手脚，转 移敌注意力的作用，所以常用来破敌顾法。
　　敌一出手任其多么勇猛，气总偏着一面，不能面面俱到，这就是此有彼无是天然的规律，如出直劲者，必无横 力，我应击其横；出横劲者无直力，我应截其直， 此即为攻敌无备之法，亦叫捣虚之法。其特点是迂回截击，避实击虚，因此辩敌虚实，则最为重要。打法因是截击 敌之力，有时也是一些抓、拿、摔、打方法的破 法。
　　实战中，敌出手上步时，我必须也要上步出手，不能有丝毫的迟钝，否则，迟易生变，贻误战机。此处步法至 为重要，不论何种手法和身法，如没有步法的配 合，常会成为空招、废招，造成失误。步法变化是各种打法的灵源和精髓，亦是战而能胜的关键，谚云：能胜在于 进步占势，不败在于退步避锋。步法一活，纵敌有 千斤之力奈我何?孙子曰：“兵之情主速，乘人之不及，由不虞之道，攻其所不戒也。”
　　在打击中，千变万化快为先，机不可失，此谓“拳打眨眼之功”。摔、打、抓、拿，击敌措手不及，关键要出 其不意，攻其不备。也就是有利我出击的时间，只有眨眼的一刹那，若能充分利用战机，则可任意发挥，无不如意 ，三拳两脚敌顾法可破，我可操必胜之权。
　　
　　十一、浑元打法
　　
　　谚云：内练一口气，外练筋骨皮。此乃培养内丹，追求真形，“内外兼修互练，达神气合一，形气合一之要义 所在。”内丹未有不借外丹而成者，练功与技击中 各种拳势的内气，阴阳是最基本的。气有沉浮之别，劲有明暗(阴阳)之分，法有沾闪之异。技击之际，气沉者胜 ，气浮者败。收拳时吸气为佳，发拳时吐气为妙。 运之则奔行于周身，蓄之则汇拢于一处。击之不能伤，推之不能去；提之则来，放之则散；若离若合，能聚能分。 苟无气行筋络之间，则拳击之处必无劲。虽见其有 隙可乘，敢于发手进攻，而气不能蓄，误其时机，实为可惜。从古至今拳家首重练气，则能发能攻，用之不尽，修 炼持久，可从容应付，免气喘上浮之弊。武功气 化，动贵气擎不散，则白有食气之法辟谷之能，有夜战马超之精力，虽不得食由于真元充足，内气调动，愈战愈勇 ，能勇增百倍而无饥饿疲之现象。此即浑元一气， 一身之势法也。
　　动静乃拳法之基本要素，练形练势不外动静。动贵气擎不散，静如山岳难摇，方能来去无失招，每见俗学俱不 稳妥，皆在未究三尖之照与不照。二尖照则无东歪 西斜之患，三尖不照则此牵彼扯，必打摇晃之失。如十字势左脚前右手前者，右手正照左脚尖，头照右手，则上中 下一线不歪不斜必稳，侧身右脚前顺势者，头照右 手，右手照脚必稳，余类同。故动静互根，温养有法，即练形、气、神的身心又练方法，它能使形气合一，神气合 一而达内外一体。此即浑元之态，有“结胎还原之 妙”。所谓“结胎”即内丹养成，中气常团聚中宫（膻中穴）。“还原”即还本来面目，动则无阻无碍，无牵无挂 ，流畅自然的浑元之势。人身之内气发于命门，此 气元源，注于四梢即手足。动则气擎不散，静如山岳难摇，方有动静互根之效，此即由外丹练内丹练之方法。但要 气擎不散，必须百脉畅通，道路滑利，行气如风轮 旋转，滚走不停，动之如流星赶月，粘连沾随，彤影不离。此须练之于平日，气聚精凝结胎于中宫，早成根蒂，方 能用之当前无不坚实，不然如炮中无硝磺，驽弓无 弦箭，满腔空洞尢物可发，欲求猛勇疾快，如龙吟虎啸之形，排山倒海之势必不能屯，此为浑元连环式最吃紧者。 明此理还宜通其义知其用，盖上气在下欲入上莫牵 其下；下气在上欲入下莫滞其上；前气在后顺其后而前自入；后气在前理其前而后自去；左气在右留意于右；右气 在左留意于左。如直撞手入气于前，不勒后手撑后 肘，气不得不自背而入。上冲手，手不下插，肩不下脱，气不得自肋而升。分摆者胸不开则气不得入于后，合抱者 背不开则气不裹于前，直起者须勾其脚，直落者须 缩其颈，左手气在右脚，右手气在左脚，俯势、栽势、前探势宜掀其后脚之跟。坠势当坐其臀，举势宜颠其足，栽 磕莫骄足，恐其上顶，踢、趟莫伸脚，虑其下扯， 扩而充之势势皆然。

[Sal Canzonieri]

Like Brian I am also researching these old traditions.

I would also like to hear what books and documentation exists.
In particular I have noticed several references to Zhao Kuangying having transmitted martial arts.

Besides mouth to ear transmission what other documentation exists showing or stating that the first Song emperor trained empty hand fighting or passed it down?

If you can read Chinese I can email you a series of articles.

[Sal Canzonieri]

hey sal always enjoy reading your research and thoughts on different taolu, history and the like. was interested in your thoughts along with anyone else about these forms of xiao hong and da hong from the shaolin wu gu lun sect. do you think the original hong quan sets would of had more similarities to some of these? i noticed compared to the older hong quan you posted before that the toes pointed upwards on the out stretched foot when dropping to the ground same as the wugulun posture however have never seen other shifu's from shaolin teach it this way? any thoughts?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Pf8yrXy0ws
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMGO2iIgx6I&feature=related

In the Shaolin Nei gong sets of Liuhe Gong, Chan Yuan Gong, and Luohan 13 Gong, the toes point upwards. These nei gong sets preceded their long fist sets.

Modern Shaolin sets have nothing of the original body mechanics first seen in these nei gong sets (which I teach in seminars by the way), which is one way of dating sets when you see them done.

Wu Gulun sect has a strong Chen TJQ influence though, so there can be a feedback loop going on between their Shaolin and Chen TJQ.

[Sal Canzonieri]

I added two more videos of the Da Hong Quan (Big Vast or Goose Fist) Liubu Jia (6 Step Frame - referring to the 6 Sections of the set, And the fact like all ancient rooted sets, there one advances only 3 steps forward on each side of a row of movements) set on youtube. One is an old man doing it super fast! And the other is slow showing of the internal body mechanics (clip ends halfway through unfortunately, every version I have seen of this clip has an error in it).

Following are the names of each posture, there is an incredible amount of overlap between Shaolin TZ Chang Quan, Shaolin Lao Hong Quan, Xiao and Da Hong Quan, and other styles. But the movements as they are done in this style appear prototypical rather than more refined as they are later seen in the other Chang and Hong Quan styles. Multiple movements are done for each posture.

大鸿拳 - Da Hong Quan 六步架 - Liu Bu Jia (三晃膀 - San Huang Bang)

1. 預備勢 – Yu Bei Shi (Preparation Position)
2. 三晃膀 - San Huang Bang – (Three Dazzling Wings / Upper arms)

Section 1
3. 上步順風捶 - Shang Bu Shun Feng Chui (Forward Step Following Wind Hammer)
4. 丁步掖手 - Ding Bu Ye Shou (Nail Step Tucking in Hand)
5. 弓步單鞭 – Gong Bu Dan Bian (Bow Step Single Whip)
6. 震腳十字捶 – Zhen Jiao Shi-Zi Chui (Shaking / Shocking Foot Crossing Hammer)
7. 倒步回馬捶 – Dao Bu Hui Ma Chui (Reverse / Pour-out Step Turn-around Horse Hammer)
8. 丁步掖手 - Ding Bu Ye Shou (Nail Step Tucking in Hand)
9. 弓步單鞭 – Gong Bu Dan Bian (Bow Step Single Whip)
10. 迸步順風捶 – Beng Bu Shun Feng Chui (Bursting Step Following Wind Hammer)
11. 丁步雙挑堂 - Ding Bu Shuang Tiao Zhang (Nail Step Double Raising [Carry] Palm)
12. 弓步單鞭 – Gong Bu Dan Bian (Bow Step Single Whip)
13. 捉膝通天炮 – Zhuo Xi Tong Tien Pao (Seize Knee Through Sky Cannon)
14. 摇膀單鞭 – Yao Bang Dan Bian (Shake/Rock Wing / Upper-arm Single Whip)
15. 踞步摟撒勢 – Ju Bu Lou Sa Shi (Crouching Step Embrace Spread Position)
16. 馬步雙撐捶 - Ma Bu Shuang Cheng Chui (Horse Step Double Supporting Hammer)
17. 十字捶 – Shi-Zi Chui (Crossing Hammer)
18. 迸步順風捶 – Beng Bu Shun Feng Chui (Bursting Step Following Wind Hammer)

Section 2
19. 四步撐堂 - Si Bu Cheng Zhang (Four Step Supporting Palm)
20. 撤步打虎 – Che Bu Da Hu (Withdrawing Step Beat Tiger)

Section 3
21. 上步雙捶 – Shang Bu Shuang Chui (Forward Step Double Hammer)
22. 轉身十字捶 – Zhuan Shen Shi-Zi Chui (Turn Body Crossing Hammer)
23. 拾腿拗步打捶 - Shi Tui Au Bu Da Chui (Pick-up Leg Twist Step Strike Hammer)
24. 盤肘十字捶 – Pan Zhou Shi-Zi Chui (Coil [level] Elbows Crossing Hammer)
25. 拾腿拗步打捶 - Shi Tui Au Bu Da Chui (Pick-up Leg Twist Step Strike Hammer)
26. 迸步順風捶 – Beng Bu Shun Feng Chui - Bursting Step Following Wind Hammer

Section 4
27. 側縱身仆拾腿 – Ce Zhong Shen Pu Bu Shi Tui (Inclined Vertical Body Fall-prostate Step Pick-up Leg)
28. 踮步十字捶 – Dian Bu Shi-Zi Chui (Tip-toe Step Crossing Hammer)
29. 弓步斜撐捶 – Gong Bu Xie Cheng Chui (Bow Step Slanting Supporting Hammer)

Section 5
30. 丁步背捶 - Ding Bu Bei Chui (Nail Step Back Hammer)
31. 馬步雙撐捶 - Ma Bu Shuang Cheng Chui (Horse Step Double Supporting Hammer)
32. 原地二起脚 – Yuan Di Er Qi Jiao (Level [originating] Ground Two Raising Feet)
33. 翻身鎗劈順風捶 – Fan Shen Qiang Pi Shun Feng Chui (Turnover Body Spear Split Following Wind Hammer)
34. 盤肘十字捶 – Pan Zhou Shi-Zi Chui (Coil [level] Elbows Crossing Hammer)
35. 迸步順風捶 – Beng Bu Shun Feng Chui (Bursting Step Following Wind Hammer)

Section 6
36. 縱跳步橫撐捶 – Zhong Tiao Bu Heng Cheng Chui (Vertical Jump Step Horizontal Supporting Hammer)
37. 轉身十字捶 – Zhuan Shen Shi-Zi Chui (Turn Body Crossing Hammer)
38. 扑棱葉 – Pu Leng Ye (Ambush [Rush upon] Timber Leaves)
39. 馬步順風捶 – Ma Bu Shun Feng Chui (Horse Step Following Wind Hammer)
40. 轉身十字捶 – Zhuan Shen Shi-Zi Chui (Turn Body Crossing Hammer)
41. 砸鎗順風捶 – Qiang Za Shun Feng Chui (Spear Smash Following Wind Hammer)
42. (Closing Position)

[Royal Dragon]

Sal, I have to say, your work in this area is nothing short of amazing. Every time we speak, you reveal new depth to this subject. I can remember just 5 years ago, all these sets were still mysteries.

I think we all owe you a debt of gratitude for all of your hard work, and more importantly, your willingness to openly share.

:)

[Sal Canzonieri]

Thanks. One thing to people keep in mind, we not just merely looking at forms and saying yep, they look alike so threfore one comes from the other.

There is a much deeper analysis of all the postures and movements, where percentage of overlap is researched by region; who taught what to whom when and where is researched; and in this case, a further special analysis was done where the movements of many Hong Quan sets from Henan and Shandong and other provinces were looked at in such a way that all the "new" postures NOT in common between the sets were deleted and what was left was a CORE skeleton of movements and postures.
What is really remarkable about this particular Liubu Jia set from this particular Da Hong Quan style, and which gives credence to the idea that this may indeed be the origin point of all Hong Quan sets, is ONE VERY IMPORTANT THING:
once the non overlaping material is stripped away, the core movements left are in the SAME SEQUENCE OF MOVEMENTS as in this Liubu Jia Set.
The Shaolin Xiao and Da Hong Quan sets, the Shandong Hong Quan sets, the Henan Hong Quan sets, the Shaolin Lao Hong Quan sets all share the same common core movements and postures found in the Liubu Jia set and they are done in fairly the same sequence of movements. In fact there is nothing done in the Shaolin Xiao Hong Quan set that is not already found in the Liubu Jia set and done in roughly the same order. They might use different names for the movements and postures but they are the same.

Also, the fact that the Liubu Jia set is fairly similar to the Shandong Wencheng Quan style, a style who clearly states that their martial material came from mixing together later Taoist nei gong movements with martial movements from the Zhao family's Lao Hong Quan and Chang Quan sets. The fact that these Wencheng Quan sets are very similar to the Liubu Jia set shows that indeed the Lao Hong Quan and Chang Quan base may have been derived from this Da Hong Quan style's Liubu Jia set.

THe Liubu Jia is a cruder, non sophisticated, more military oriented way of doing the movements later seen many hundreds of years later in all the many Hong Quan style found throughout China by the Qing dynasty. You can easily do the Liubu Jia movments with a straight sword (Jian) or knife (dao- broadsword) and nothing needs to be changed.

[Sal Canzonieri]

I love this video of Wenchenqquan style (halfway through are the applications):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXHEk1P8gQk

ha! Does he pay these people to get beat up?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoERMXVhLlc

You can clearly see that they use this old Da Hong Quan style as a root, and their style's quan pu even says that they did so, claiming that their style was founding by a descendant of the Song royal Zhao family, of which originally practiced the Da Hong Quan style from the Luoyang / Yellow River basin (which was originally known as Liubu Jia) and merged it with some Taoist neigong movements.

Compare to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kJ8unUIlgM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvFvl0HzlpE

[Sal Canzonieri]

My old research notes show that the Shandong Province Wensheng Quan style attributes its founding to the people with the same surname as that of the Henan Province Da Hong Quan style's founder, Liu Fengguai 刘风拐 (also known as Liu Banxiang 刘半响), from the Sui Dynasty:

Wensheng Quan's original theory and movements were first formed by Liu Fengtian during the Wanli period of the Ming Dinasty, between 1572 and 1620. Liu was not his original name. His ancestor was Li Yuanba who was imperial kinsmen in the Tang dinasty. Li Yuanba founded a religious sect containing Yin/Yang theory, the study of the Art of War, Medicine, and Wushu. Since Liu Fengtian’s childhood, he had begun learning Daoyin skills and practiced Taoist Neijia Quan. Afterwards, he lived in Shan county, in Shandong, where he learned boxing methods and something called ‘Bagua Eight- writing Song’.

Among Liu’s disciples was Gao Yunlong (the leader of Ligua), also known as Gao Nanguo, was a master of the Song Taizu Chang Quan and Lao Hong Quan, and related weapon sets. Gao was a descendent of Zhao Kuangyin, the founder of the Song Dynasty (960-1127). Therefore, Wensheng Quan is connected at least indirectly to all the Shaolin Taizu Quan related martial arts. Liu and Gao together combined Taoist Neigong and the Zhao family’s 108 postures of Lao Hong Quan and the 32 postures of Taizu Chang Quan. Their new effort more perfectly combined internal and external actions and had definite health benefits (most practitioners live a very long time. Wensheng Quan combines spiral motion with the meridians and collaterals of traditional Chinese medicine to maximize body strength), sharing many attributes with Taiji Quan, which was developed around the same 1600s time period.

During the Qing Dynasty, the style was further developed by Du Hong Sin, from Jining. The name of the art has changed in history from "Du Jia Quan" (Du Family Boxing) to "Wu Bu Jia" (Five Step Frame) to "Chang Shou Quan" (Long Life Boxing). The style was practiced in the provinces of Hebei, Henan, Zhili, Shanxi, and Shandong. By the fourth generation it reached Song Chuanping in the Jining area, and the style became called “Wensheng Quan”, of which "Wen" means Traditional Chinese Culture, "Sheng" means to cultivate above wordly considerations.

Wensheng Quan has, and two main stages. One is called "Tou Shang Jia" which trains the breath with five kinds of Zhuang Gong (stance holding exercises). The Toutang Mujia in Wensheng Quan includes the Quan philosophy and combats essence of the Wensheng Quan and has only 32 simple forms (from roots in Taizu Chang Quan 32 postures). The second stage is called "Er Tang Jia" which has six sets of training, five sets of hands, five sets of elbows, five sets of arms, six sets of steps, eigth sets of footwork. It has 108 forms divided into 6 sections (from roots in the Lao Hong Quna 108 postures). Since Wensheng Quan was a a type of neijia from ancient times, it contains movements from times when weapons were used on horseback, such as spear play, sword, bow, etc.

Most Wensheng Quan can be practiced in Wen Gong (literary or "static") mode or Wu Gong (martial or "active") mode. Therefore the style has many postures than can be performed standing, sitting, lying, and in lotus positions. As in other more ancient styles, when forms were first being developed, Wensheng Quan concentrates on small sequences of moves in combination. These can be strung together in “tangs” or laps. They can be practiced broken into parts or mixed linked into longer sections. The style has a partner practice that is something like a combination of Push Hands (Tui Shou), Sticky Hands, and Joint Locks (Qinna), for developing listening and fighting skills known as ‘Kamo Shou’ which can be translated as "probing" or "shaving" hands.

[Sal Canzonieri]

Thanks for sharing Sal. I saw elements of Tai Tzu in there as well. Great research. I wonder though if the first guy made some mistake because he ended his form facing the other way.

Aha, today I found out that, like other styles that are from more ancient background, there is a second side to this side. And when you end the first side, you can begin doing the second side against the other person now doing the first side.

The second side allows the one doing the first side to do the applications.

I found that this is the same condition as two other two-person sets that I have learned from the Wah Quan and Shaolin traditions, such as The Luohan 18 Fists set and the Ba Bu Lianhuan Quan - 8 Step Linking Fist set.
The second side of the 18 Luohan set sets up the applications of the first side, and it introduces a new technique, the Crazy Devil movements.
The second side of the Babu Lianhuan set is pretty hard to do, it's all attacking mode and dependent on the first side.

Same here with the second side of this Liubu Jia set, its all in attacking mode and depends on what the first side is doing.

Many ancient sword sets (of which this Liubu Jia set is most like since there are mostly sudden thrusting movements) also feature this two person trade off routines, with Side B in attacking mode and allowing the applications of side A to show themselves in combat.

What you do continuously in this Liubu Jia set is scissor through the opponent, which in today's Shaolin Hong Quan and Chang Quan sets this is considered the "secret" application to the movements, rather than a punch being just a punch, they are take down movements that arose from using hand held weapons (I guess you would do them in case you dropped your weapon and since all you knew how do to is military drills, you would continue to do them despite losing your weapon; in other words, you would do what you how to do best, your drill movements.

[Sal Canzonieri]

Some more things I learned about this Big Vast Fist Da Hong Quan style:

The Liubu Jia very much looks like an early protype for the Hong Quan later practiced in Shaolin, the Lao Hong Quan that is practiced in Dengfang area near Shaolin, and various Hong Quan (and Wensheng Quan) practiced in the Shandong area. In the Liubu Jia can be found many movements later seen in these Shaolin derived Hong Quan and Taizu Chang Quan styles, such as “Single Whip – Dan Bian”, Golden Chicken Independently Stands, Slanting Shape – “Xie Xing”, and many more. it is the earliest style to actually have a posture named "Single Whip". The Liubu Jia is a cruder, non sophisticated, more military oriented way of doing the more refined movements later seen many hundreds of years later in all the many Hong Quan styles found throughout China by the Qing dynasty. Being military based, the Liubu Jia movments can be done with a straight sword (Jian) or knife (dao- broadsword) or spear and nothing needs to be changed.

Also, like the Shaolin Hong Quan that was later developed by Li Sou and Bai Yufeng, the Da Hong Quan – Big Vast Fist style uses five animal shapes, which are Sheep, Swan (Hong), Tiger, Leopard, and Crane (羊, 鸿 (雁), 虎, 豹, 鹤). Shaolin uses Dragon, Tiger, Crane, Leopard, and Snake. Also, Big Vast Fist uses the concept of Five Elements, in this case being the gold, wood, water, fire, and earth elements. These are associated with the movements of Pi, Beng, Zuan, Pao, and Heng Wu Chui – Splitting, Crushing, Probing (Drilling), Exploding, and Horizontal Five Hammers (劈, 崩, 钻, 炮, 横 五捶); almost identical to the Five Elements system later used by the Xing Yi Quan style.

[Royal Dragon]

Any luck getting the choreography of the second side of the Libu Jia?

[Sal Canzonieri]

Any luck getting the choreography of the second side of the Libu Jia?

There are photos, step by step, in the Da Hong Quan book I mentioned earlier in this thread.

[Royal Dragon]

You mean the one no one can find?

[Sal Canzonieri]

You mean the one no one can find?

What? You can get this book at Plum Publications and a ton of other places.
Even Amazon China has it.

[Royal Dragon]

Oh!, sorry, I thought it was a different one!

[Sal Canzonieri]

If anyone can help me get further information on other sets in this Da Hong Quan (Big Vast or Swan Fist) style, I would really appreciate it.
Besides the Liubu Jia set (San Huang Bang), there is also these that I am looking for information on, hopefully some video to see what they look like at least:

六步架，Liu Bu Jia
二步架，Er Bu Jia
“8”字步拳；Ba-zi Bu Jia
徒手对练有靠臂捶，
长打捶，Chang Da Chui
十二捶，Si Er Chui
十四捶，Si San Chui
十八捶，Si Ba Chui
外扒眉等

[Sal Canzonieri]

You must be a real newbie, that's for sure. Or else you would clearly be able to see that his ancient Da Hong Quan would wipe any modern Hong Quan player off the map.
And, this is not a "revived" set, it's been documented and handed down for many hundreds of years before Shaolin boxing even existed.

Anyways, the Shaolin Xiao and Da Hong Quan practiced today is a fragment of what it was originally like when it was first developed, or actually brought to Shaolin really, by Li Sou during the 1400s. The Xiao Hong quan set is just an abbreviation of the version that was taught even about 60 years ago. It is missing the whole first section now and many movements here and there in the set which were once there.

Here's the original version of the Xiao Hong Quan set, the longer more advanced way to do the set, before it was shortened and simplified in modern times:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gEop0aFSRY

[LFJ]

Here's the original version of the Xiao Hong Quan set, the longer more advanced way to do the set, before it was shortened and simplified in modern times:

as i've understood, its xiaohongquan's matching set, often called dahongquan, or laojia (old frame) hongquan as in the video.

this set along with xiaohongquan is what li sou taught at shaolin as matching sets. not that it was a single form, and in modern times was shortened and simplified to create the xiaohongquan set.

the only thing i notice today, is that most people leave out the second section that uses the elbow strikes. with that in, it follows almost exactly the same layout as xiaohongquan, which has the section with "xiexing", done again later with "panzhou", and ending with the "san tuizhang" section, just as in this laojia hongquan set.

[Sal Canzonieri]

as i've understood, its xiaohongquan's matching set, often called dahongquan, or laojia (old frame) hongquan as in the video.

this set along with xiaohongquan is what li sou taught at shaolin as matching sets. not that it was a single form, and in modern times was shortened and simplified to create the xiaohongquan set.

the only thing i notice today, is that most people leave out the second section that uses the elbow strikes. with that in, it follows almost exactly the same layout as xiaohongquan, which has the section with "xiexing", done again later with "panzhou", and ending with the "san tuizhang" section, just as in this laojia hongquan set.

The idea that there as a matching set is modern day conjecture on the part of some Shaolin monks, as far as I could find out. The Xiao Hong Quan as we know it was formalized in 20th century.

From all I can see in researching Hong Quan, Li Sou practiced a style called Da Hong Quan from Guansu (north western china near Shanxi).
This Lao Da Hong Quan set was a gift to Shaolin when he left the place and went back home. Li Sou was a staff expert as well, I think you can do this set with a staff.

Since he was working with Bai Yu Feng, I think this Lao Da Hong Quan set must have some Five Fist (now called Five Animals but not back then in the Ming Dynasty) influence as well.

[Royal Dragon]

I thought there was a Xiao Hong, and a Da Hong too, and then there is a different Da Hong from Zhao Kuang Yin's notes that is 6 roads that is unrelated to the other two?

I seem to remember something about the Son leaving Xiao Hong, and the Father leaving Da Hong? Does that sound familliar to anyone?

[LFJ]

sal, what sort of information do you have on li sou, and xiaohongquan?

the chinese version of the shaolin monastery's official website has a lot of history written there. about li sou, it says he passed on da and xiaohongquan sets, staff, and qinna techniques.

the idea that the two sets came as a pair from a father and son was because when li sou went to shaolin with monk jueyuan and bai yufeng, he also took his son. then came the legend of a father and son surnamed "hong" that passed on these two da and xiao "hongquan" sets. but it actually says li sou passed on both sets himself.

i'm wondering where you read your information and what it actually says, because it seems likely that you just read the chinese grammar incorrectly.

in english we would say "old, large, and small flood boxing", talking about three different types of flood boxing sets. but in chinese the grammar can just be "lao da xiao hongquan" with the commas and "and" understood.

its not actually referring to a single set called "lao da xiao hongquan" or "lao xiao da hongquan" or whatever else. that would be a ridiculous name for a single set that doesnt even make sense.

on the chinese version of the shaolin monastery's website, it says li sou passed on "da xiao hongquan", which refers to the pair sets dahongquan (laojia hongquan) and xiaohongquan, not a single set called "daxiaohongquan". its simply that the "and" is understood here in chinese grammar.

[Royal Dragon]

i'm wondering where you read your information and what it actually says, because it seems likely that you just read the chinese grammar incorrectly.

Reply]
This is just the oral legends I was told, when I was taught the sets in the mid 90's

I didn't actually learn Da Hong that goes with the Xiao Hong like I thought though. The Da Hong I learned is the one from Zhao Kuang Yin's notes.

Of course, I learned about that little detail after I forgot the set from never doing it.....

[Sal Canzonieri]

I thought there was a Xiao Hong, a Da Hong too, and then there is a different Da Hong from Zhao Kuang Yin's notes that is 6 roads that is unrelated to the other two?

I seem to remember something about the Son leaving Xiao Hong, and the Father leaving Da Hong? Does that sound familliar to anyone?

There is now.

Today Shaolin has:
Xiao Hong Quan and 3 Roads of a Da Hong Quan (appreviated).
They come from two different sources. Xiao (and the longer Lao Da Hong Quan) are from Ming Dynasty and come from Li Sou's teachings.
In the early Qing Dynasty, someone developed a great Xiao Hong Quan Er Lu set (which features all the kicks seen in Chen TJQ, and was developed BEFORE Chen TJQ)

In Dengfeng area, they have 6 Roads of Da Hong Quan; and the 4 Roads of Lao Hong Quan.
They also have this Lao Da Hong Quan set.

[Sal Canzonieri]

sal, what sort of information do you have on li sou, and xiaohongquan?

the chinese version of the shaolin monastery's official website has a lot of history written there. about li sou, it says he passed on da and xiaohongquan sets, staff, and qinna techniques.

the idea that the two sets came as a pair from a father and son was because when li sou went to shaolin with monk jueyuan and bai yufeng, he also took his son. then came the legend of a father and son surnamed "hong" that passed on these two da and xiao "hongquan" sets. but it actually says li sou passed on both sets himself.

i'm wondering where you read your information and what it actually says, because it seems likely that you just read the chinese grammar incorrectly.

in english we would say "old, large, and small flood boxing", talking about three different types of flood boxing sets. but in chinese the grammar can just be "lao da xiao hongquan" with the commas and "and" understood.

its not actually referring to a single set called "lao da xiao hongquan" or "lao xiao da hongquan" or whatever else. that would be a ridiculous name for a single set that doesnt even make sense.

on the chinese version of the shaolin monastery's website, it says li sou passed on "da xiao hongquan", which refers to the pair sets dahongquan (laojia hongquan) and xiaohongquan, not a single set called "daxiaohongquan". its simply that the "and" is understood here in chinese grammar.

My book that is being worked on has the full history of Li Sou, even his full name.

I understand about translating the Chinese, as you state.

You are correct in what you say above about Da Xiao Hong Quan, it's a pair, and it is as you stated.

This is what Shaolin currently says, because they are going by what they have in possession today (which they had lost after 1928 and regained from outsiders in the 1980s).

The only thing I am disputing is that:
Yes, the longer set from Li Sou is definitely half of the pair of the Da Xiao Hong Quan. But, no one is really sure that the Xiao Hong Quan set that we see there today is the real one from back in Li Sou's time.
It seems to be a shortened version of the longer version, and since most people no longer practiced the longer version, this shorter version took its place.
But one of the original pair set was lost.
People are researching this.

In other regions of Henan, such as Dengfeng and elsewhere, where they practiced Shaolin sets from before Shaolin was burned down, they also practice the longer Lao Jia Hong Quan (Da Hong Quan) set, same as the few people left at Shaolin that know it do the set.
But none of them do the modern day Shaolin Xiao Hong Quan set, when they do, they added it later. In Shanxi, Shaanxi, Emei, they do a different Xiao Hong Quan set entirely.

Did the Xiao Hong Quan set come from WuGunLun's reintroduction of Shaolin sets to the monastery in the 1980s? If so, it is known that he and his son gave them abbreviated versions of the sets.

Or, is it From Shi De Gen's reintroduction of Shaolin sets? (He died in 1969)

What did Shi De Gian's research show (the monk that he died recently)?

[Royal Dragon]

Today Shaolin has:
Xiao Hong Quan and 3 Roads of a Da Hong Quan (appreviated).

Reply]
What are the 3 roads of Da Hong Quan? Is that the one from Zhao's notes? or another one? Is it the match to Xiao Hong Quan?

[Sal Canzonieri]

Today Shaolin has:
Xiao Hong Quan and 3 Roads of a Da Hong Quan (appreviated).

Reply]
What are the 3 roads of Da Hong Quan? Is that the one from Zhao's notes? or another one? Is it the match to Xiao Hong Quan?


The 3 roads are the common Da Hong Quan sets you see all the time that Shi Deyang and others do.
There are a million versions of it.
They are nothing like the Xiao Hong Quan.

Supposedly they were developed from Zhao Kuangyin's notes.

The 6 Road version's extra 3 roads come from people who visited Shaolin long ago from Shandong province that practiced Hong Quan and they exchanged sets with Shaolin people.

[Sal Canzonieri]

Here's a nice pile of different Hong Quan videos to look at at one sitting, to help people get a perspective about the differences between the substyles:

大鸿拳 da hong quan big vast fist 三晃膀 - San Huang Bang 六步架 - Liu bu jia:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kJ8unUIlgM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-sQ7T5a9pI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvFvl0HzlpE

Shaolin Lao Jia Hong Quan (Da Xiao Hong Quan):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gEop0aFSRY (shi de jian)

Shaolin Xiao Hong Quan Yi Lu:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMGO2iIgx6I (Wugulun school)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkcRKcrzYjI (shi heng tong)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6KAHDd0Pq (shi guo song)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT9IgCqFjgA (shi yong zhi)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsfMLyGkmaE (shi de yang)

Shaolin Da Hong Quan Yi lu (of the 3 roads Da Hong Quan sets):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQbZsgJ-pb4 (old monk)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1h8pyH7Q3Y (shi yong zhi)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHQK7uUDWXU (shi de yang)


Shaanxi Xiao Hong Quan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLYFxGtF9Qo
Shaanxi Da Hong Quan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRVJveKZ0x0

(Why does Shaanxi Hong Quan look like Cha Quan? Because the Wudang Hong Quan style brought the Hong Quan sets from Shaanxi and Emei area over to Shandong area. Cha Quan looks very much like this style of Hong Quan, doesn't it?)

Shandong Xiao Hong Quan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyUwL63Llz4 (Fan Xi shao)

Northern Mantis Xiao Hong Quan (from Shandong):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAnt1ot6-GY

[bawang]

hey man thanks for all those valuable information
if not for modern age and people like you peopl would never find out about the history of kung fu

[Scott R. Brown]

hey man thanks for all those valuable information
if not for modern age and people like you peopl would never find out about the history of kung fu

I agree! Thank you for all your hard work Sal!

[Sal Canzonieri]

hey man thanks for all those valuable information
if not for modern age and people like you people would never find out about the history of kung fu

Thanks!

heh, heh, modern times is letting us know more about ancient times!

My book so far is 269 pages without drawing added yet!
It's about the history and interrelationship between the internal martial arts.
The text is being edited and proofed right now by some KF masters and researchers.
I'm very excited to be presenting over 20 years worth of research.
You'll be very surprised how interrelated the history and roots are from one martial art style to another. There are some surprising links between styles.

[Sal Canzonieri]

I agree! Thank you for all your hard work Sal!

Thanks.

What would be cool is if people can help add to this list of videos or some textual information.

We need videos and info on Wudang Hong Quan style, for example.
There was some videos on youtube, but I can't find them anymore.

[Scott R. Brown]

Thanks.

What would be cool is if people can help add to this list of videos or some textual information.

We need videos and info on Wudang Hong Quan style, for example.
There was some videos on youtube, but I can't find them anymore.

I used to have a bunch of Wudang vids saved on my hard drive. I looked for them last week, but couldn't find them. I'll try to dig up some old disks to see it i saved them. I don't remember what I have though. I got a lot of them off Google video.

[Sal Canzonieri]

Okay, new information about this Da Hong Quan (Big Fast or Swan Fist) style.
A new book just came out in China and I read it today. This book had a lot of history stuff, a version of the Liubu Jia from a different branch, loads more applications, and qi gong, and also select movements from the other sets of the style.

It mentioned that this Da Hong Quan style was the early root of the movements later found in the Shaolin Da and Xiao Hong Quan sets. The Hammer (Chui) set were the root of what later became Pao Chui style (which the Pao Chui before the Qing era was just a part of Henan area Hong Quan, not a separate style as it is today). Okay, not a big revelation, since we know the Big Vast Fist was very popular all over the Yellow River Basin area from Henan to Piexian in Shandong. A big area, with all manner of Hong Quan being found in this long corridor.

It also said that the style contains the Liubu Jia (6 Step Frame), the Erbu Jia (2 Step Frame), the Ba-zi Jia ("8" character Frame), and the various Hammer and weapons sets and so on (that I posted already) and then it said that related are the Hei Hu Da Bu and the Xia Bu (Black Tiger Big Step and Small Step) sets (which Big Vast Fist was known as Black Tiger Boxing during the Song Dynasty)
AND the SHAOLIN KAN JIA QUAN!

I found that too incredible to believe, but I went through all my Kanjia Quan material, and lo and behold, you can clearly see just about all the postures from Big Vast Fist, especially in the second road of Shaolin Kanjia Quan, this set was very close to the Liubu Jia set. That's an amazing historical connection.

Now, I had read elsewhere that the Shaolin Kanjia Quan ("Protect the Home Boxing" sets (13 of them) had left the area toward Shandong in 1786 (where it eventually morphed into the famous Northern Shaolin style) and that it was originally practiced in the shrine temple areas of Shaolin, by the guards that acted as sentries between all the shrine temples and that were clandestine anti-qing rebels. What they practiced was then a blend of Shaolin and local Hong Quan (often called Village Long Fist).

So, it was known that this village long fist or local hong quan descended from the Big Vast Fist (since that's all there really was in Sui/ Tang times, when ex-military people roamed around and their fighting methods were called Xia Quan or Knight Boxing, mostly they served as body guards, business guards, and martial art teachers), hence the connection between Shaolin Kanjia Quan and its far roots in Big Vast Fist.

[r.(shaolin)]

Okay, new information about this Da Hong Quan (Big Fast or Swan Fist) style.
it said that related are the Hei Hu Da Bu and the Xia Bu (Black Tiger Big Step and Small Step) sets (which Big Vast Fist was known as Black Tiger Boxing during the Song Dynasty)


Shaanxi Xiao Hong Quan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLYFxGtF9Qo
Shaanxi Da Hong Quan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRVJveKZ0x0

(Why does Shaanxi Hong Quan look like Cha Quan? Because the Wudang Hong Quan style brought the Hong Quan sets from Shaanxi and Emei area over to Shandong area. Cha Quan looks very much like this style of Hong Quan, doesn't it?)

Hi Sal,
Cool. Thanks for put this together.
As I said before, our Shaolin tradition connects HEI HU QUAN (Black Tiger Fist) to Da Hong Chang Quan, Xiao Hong Chang Quan (Lesser and Greater Hong (鸿)Long Fist). As well these two sets are done more like the Shaanxi versions you've posted, but come from Henan. However, unlike the Shaanxi version, we use the character (鸿) not (红).

These two modern long fist sets are based on the way we do Xiao Hong Chang Quan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObiygVWC-1Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65KqI1qBJyI&feature=related

And this modern set was based on the way we do Da Hong Chang Quan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEllGdmG7K8

r.

[mawali]

These two modern long fist sets are based on the way we do Xiao Hong Chang Quan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObiygVWC-1Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65KqI1qBJyI&feature=related

And this modern set was based on the way we do Da Hong Chang Quan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEllGdmG7K8

r.

I learnt the above routines about 35 years ago but I only remember the first 2 and part of the 3rd. My only problem is that I refuse to learn the newer routines because they are moving away from utility and application to wushu acrobatic performance. I believed that they have changed the format at least 6-8 times to date just to fit gymnastic scoring rules and regulations!

I believe they use the term "nandu" to showcase degree of difficulty and acrobatic skill in wushu arenas!

[Royal Dragon]

Sal, what is the name of that book, and is it in English?

[r.(shaolin)]

I learnt the above routines about 35 years ago but I only remember the first 2 and part of the 3rd. My only problem is that I refuse to learn the newer routines because they are moving away from utility and application to wushu acrobatic performance. I believed that they have changed the format at least 6-8 times to date just to fit gymnastic scoring rules and regulations!

I believe they use the term "nandu" to showcase degree of difficulty and acrobatic skill in wushu arenas!

The original sets are more combative, and longer.
r.

[Sal Canzonieri]

Sal, what is the name of that book, and is it in English?

Chinese only, it is called San Huang Bang, three dazzling wings (or upper arms).

[Sal Canzonieri]

Hi Sal,
Cool. Thanks for put this together.
As I said before, our Shaolin tradition connects HEI HU QUAN (Black Tiger Fist) to Da Hong Chang Quan, Xiao Hong Chang Quan (Lesser and Greater Hong (鸿)Long Fist). As well these two sets are done more like the Shaanxi versions you've posted, but come from Henan. However, unlike the Shaanxi version, we use the character (鸿) not (红).

These two modern long fist sets are based on the way we do Xiao Hong Chang Quan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObiygVWC-1Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65KqI1qBJyI&feature=related

And this modern set was based on the way we do Da Hong Chang Quan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEllGdmG7K8

r.

Cool, well, it all fits together like a big puzzle now.
Shanxi Hong Quan was originally using the 鸿 character for Hong.
It was later when Shanxi masters became anti-Qing rebels in the 1800s that they changed the name to 红 red character, in honor of the first Ming emperor.

If you really look at these Shanxi sets, the way the movements are made, they are like Swan movements.

It makes sense that you Black Tiger sets are like those Wushu sets, since these wushu sets are created from mixture of Shaolin, Hua Quan and Cha Quan from Shandong.

Sometime during the 1700s, the Black Tiger sets reached Shandong from Shaolin area and were taught there as part of the Shaolin Mei Hua Tai Zu Men system.
Locally the people practiced Hua and Cha Quan, so there must have been some merging going on.

[iron_leg_dave]

If elements of this form gave birth to tai zu, then longfist comes from Hong fist?

[Sal Canzonieri]

If elements of this form gave birth to tai zu, then longfist comes from Hong fist?

Yes, exactly (but not just any Hong Quan, this particular one: Big Vast Fist. The other Hong Quan style came later).
It's always been said that the Village Hong or Chang Quan practiced all over Henan province degenerated from the Da Hong Quan (whatever they called it at whatever time period, remember that) that was practiced since Sui/ Tang times along the Yellow River basin areas, and centered in Kaifeng and Louyang cities
(why these two cities? These were the two cities that were the capital city of the various empires before the Southern Song dynasty. Hence, there were many soldiers at these places).

Big Vast Fist wasn't a "Chang Quan" long fist yet, because the sets were still "Jia" or frames, which means there was stops along the way, after each drill was done. Jia are strings of drills.

Once the Shaolin Taizu Chang Quan set was developed, from THEN there were Long Fist sets developed where the postures were done with movements that were like how a river is long and flowing, the postures were strung together smoothly (so that even the space between the postures became movements used for self defense) and thus real boxing or fist "forms" "Quan" or Roads (Lu) were created.

Eventually, Chang Quan sets were called Hong Quan, with the character for Flooding, was further conveyed the idea of moving like a how wave or a river floods all in its path.

So, Taizu Quan came from Big Vast Fist, because that was what the military Zhao family practiced, eventually it became called Hong Quan, Flooding Fist.

[iron_leg_dave]

Yes, exactly (but not just any Hong Quan, this particular one: Big Vast Fist. The other Hong Quan style came later).
It's always been said that the Village Hong or Chang Quan practiced all over Henan province degenerated from the Da Hong Quan (whatever they called it at whatever time period, remember that) that was practiced since Sui/ Tang times along the Yellow River basin areas, and centered in Kaifeng and Louyang cities
(why these two cities? These were the two cities that were the capital city of the various empires before the Southern Song dynasty. Hence, there were many soldiers at these places).

Big Vast Fist wasn't a "Chang Quan" long fist yet, because the sets were still "Jia" or frames, which means there was stops along the way, after each drill was done. Jia are strings of drills.

Once the Shaolin Taizu Chang Quan set was developed, from THEN there were Long Fist sets developed where the postures were done with movements that were like how a river is long and flowing, the postures were strung together smoothly (so that even the space between the postures became movements used for self defense) and thus real boxing or fist "forms" "Quan" or Roads (Lu) were created.

Eventually, Chang Quan sets were called Hong Quan, with the character for Flooding, was further conveyed the idea of moving like a how wave or a river floods all in its path.

So, Taizu Quan came from Big Vast Fist, because that was what the military Zhao family practiced, eventually it became called Hong Quan, Flooding Fist.

Excellent!

That fills in a lot of gaps, and explains the obvious similiarity in how traditional Chang Quan and Hong Quan sets are played.

I wonder where I can learn some good hong style in New England?

[Shaolin Master]

大鸿拳的“鸿”“红”“洪”之辨

大鸿拳又名“六步架”也称“三晃膀”。系气力功架短打拳法，属于一种仿生象形拳术。具有羊、鸿（雁）、虎、 豹、鹤五形；合于小、大、顺、拗、立五势；应金木、水、火、土五行；化出劈、崩、钻、炮、横五捶。它拳势威 猛，刚劲有力，朴实浑厚，脚步扎实，发如崩炮、防多截肩，裹缠拗膀，顺化逆出，俟身挤靠，滚化旋发，变化多 端，内外兼备，集气功拳架于一体。讲究内练一口气，外练筋骨皮，马步为先，扣步平肩，切势气门关，心意相合 ，意气为一。以独特的风格，自成一大拳术派系，是我国武苑中的一朵奇葩。

据传此拳系随末鸿仙所创，他上山打柴时，见山坡上两只山羊在抵角，开始时两只羊都鼓着肚子，抵得很有力。后 来肚子瘪了，也无力再争斗了，鸿仙善于观察各种动物的行动，结合自己的体会，从而悟出了气与力的关系，结合 自己与野兽搏斗的经验，创出了气力功架拳。人们为了纪念鸿仙，又因此拳起式“拧腰三晃膀”之后的定势如“鸿 雁展翅”之势（如图1所示），故将此拳命名为“大鸿拳”，也有称之为三晃膀的。又因此拳分为平气架、气推力 、气排丹田、混用力、闭气练法、混元气练六个练习步骤（即：六个阶段），故有人把此拳叫做“六 步架”。

过去练家子都将大鸿拳视如珍宝，多系口传，资料较少。有些人将“大鸿拳”的“鸿”字，写成“红”或“洪”字 ，这实属笔误，因“音同”所致。这一字之差，将些拳与北方的“红拳”和南方的“洪拳”就浑为了一潭，混在两 拳之中，被这两个拳系之拳所将淹没，有碍于独具风格自成一大拳术体系的“大鸿拳”的发展，今需加以辨明，规 范其名称。

一、大鸿拳命名的初衷

大鸿拳之所以叫大“鸿”拳，当时有三个初衷：一是为了纪念该拳编创之人“鸿仙”，以鸿仙的姓氏所命名的。二 是取该拳之起势“拧腰三晃膀”之拳势，象鸿雁受惊之展开翅膀欲飞之气势，用以来概括该拳风格特点，所命名的 。三是告诉后来人，此拳是一种仿生象形拳法，演练此拳者，不仅要总结人类的搏斗之经验，还应注意大自然的物 象，向动物学习。只有这样处处留意，才能将此拳练到炉火纯青的地步。大鸿拳若写成“大红拳”或“大洪拳”， 就违背了大鸿拳起初时命名的初衷，应予纠正。

二、大鸿拳与红拳或洪拳渊源不同、风格各异

（一）《中华武术辞典》《体育词典》《中国大百科全书——体育》《少林武术大全》《中国武术史 》里的红拳

红拳属于长拳类型的拳术，源于西北一带，元初即已流行，《少林拳法》：“无时觉远上人访白玉峰于陕西兰州（ 今属甘肃），入寺授技传大小红拳”。其风格特点是撑斩为母，尽八法（撑、斩、勾、挂、缠、拦、沾、挎）之变 ，体工行美，法势澡丽，扁身击远，势低筋揉，内展腾挪，巧击刁打，劲尚脆快，兼以长柔。

（二）《中华武术辞典》《体育词典》《中国大百科全书——体育》《拳术拳种和拳家》《广东名家套路——洪拳 》里的洪拳

南方洪拳称为洪家拳，是南拳之一种，属于南少林派系，由福建南少林著名和尚至善禅师的弟子洪熙官所创。其风 格特点是：浑厚朴实，稳健有力，桥沉短促，多桥法，少腿法，发劲蓄含，先收后放，因势发声，以声助力。主要 盛行于湛江、海南、韶关、惠阳等地区。

（三）《大鸿拳》《大鸿拳秘谱》中的大鸿拳

大鸿拳，系随末鸿仙所创，是一种仿生功架拳。主要流行于黄淮下游流域，它拳势威猛，刚劲有力，朴实深厚，脚 步扎实，多膀法，滚出旋入，变化多端，内外兼修，集气功拳架于一体。

从以上分析，不难看出，这三种拳术，拳种不一，渊源不同，风格各异，故不能将“大鸿拳”混入“洪拳”与“红 拳”之中。应使它独自一体，自为一派的体系体现出来。

三、大鸿拳与红拳或洪拳的技法与内容不同

（一）红拳

《中华武术辞典》《体育词典》《中国大百科全书——体育》《少林武术大全》《中国武术史》中载：红拳内容有 盘、法、势、理四个方面。盘乃基础训练，称十大盘功；法即打手打法，其零手有百种之多，另有组手排子，打手 母子九拳及打手跑拳；势为套路，以大小红拳为基本，计有三十六路，另有器械，如刀、枪、棍、鞭等；理则为拳 法理论，遗有《红拳打手歌》、五篇及《打手要言》《拳谱》。

（二）洪拳

《中华武术辞典》《体育词典》《中国大百科全书——体育》《拳术拳种和拳家》《广东南拳名家套路——洪拳》 中载：洪拳主要套路有三进拳、铁线拳、二龙争珠、夜虎出林、五形拳和十字拳等，基本手型有拳、掌、指、爪、 钩、鹤顶，手法有沉桥，插掌、截桥、封桥等，步法多是四平大马，还有三角马、子午马、吊马、和麒麟马等。身 型要求含胸、收腹、敛臀、沉肩、垂肘、沉桥、坐跨。

其练法有套路练习、耐力练习、桥法练习和活步练习等。

（三）大鸿拳

《大鸿拳》《大鸿拳秘谱》载：大鸿拳的手型有拳（鹤顶拳）、掌、勾，其最突出的特点是，其拳的拳始终是鹤顶 拳。其步型有弓步、马步、丁步、仆步、独立站、半跪步，其拳半跪步出现最多，最为常用，这也是此拳的一大特 征（如图6所示）。拳法有冲、搡、磕、压、砸、架、钻、抡、撑；掌法有挑、提、拉、扇、插、探等；勾法有撩 、挑、撅等；肘法有顶、撞、拐、截等；膀法有掖、裹、靠、别、晃、拗等。腿法较少，偶有也是低腿法；此拳之 精华在于膀法。其拳系内容丰富，徒手单练的有六步架，二步架，“8”字步拳；徒手对练有靠臂捶，长打捶，十 二捶，十四捶，十八捶，外扒眉等；器械单练套路有鞭，太平刀，双刀，六路大刀，枪，棍，剑，绳标等；器械对 练套路有盘龙棍，双刀枪，单刀枪，白手夺枪，白手夺刀，大梢子对枪，三节棍对枪，四节子镗对枪，六进单刀， 双锏对枪，滚肚枪，一百单八枪等；功法有用功过气法，临敌应计法，老嫩救活法，百步捶法和定身法（即：擒拿 控制法）。

从以上技法及拳系的内容分析来看，大鸿拳与红拳或洪拳也不相同，不属同一拳术派系。因此不应将大鸿拳与红拳 或洪拳浑为了一潭，应将其名称明确，不要再将“大鸿拳”误写成“大红拳”或“大洪拳”。应勇敢地纠正“笔误 ”，给大鸿拳的发展扫除障碍。

四、关于“大红拳在丰县的起始及特点”一文

1991年4月出版的《丰县文史资料》第九辑第130页，刊载了周长珍先生口述，刘永孝生先整理的“大红拳 在丰县的起始及特点”一文（以下简称“刘文”）。刘文里载：“大红拳在丰县、沛县、鱼台三县流传较广，演练 者众多，练者多称‘六步架’。”刘文在“避难显神功”里讲的大意是：一日晚饭后，李头领（李泰）坐在石磙上 暗自叹息自己英雄无用之地，不觉间将石滚眼扣烂，人们知他会武，经人说合，张健与同村里几位青年一起拜李头 领为师，共学大红拳。刘文在“套路及特点”里讲：“大红拳有六步架、二步架、徒手套路；对练有靠子（臂）捶 、长打捶、十二捶、十四捶、十八捶、外扒眉等”、又说：“大红拳练功要诀是：以气摧力，存气于丹田，运气于 肋间，发气于百川，捶打十分力，力从气中出，运气贵乎缓，用气贵乎急。”还又说：“大红拳运气之法：马步为 先，弓步单鞭，勾步平肩，切势气门关，心意相合，意气合一。”最后说到：“总之，六步架也称气功架苗，是练 功与练气的统一，是不可分割的整体。”

从刘文来看，他所述的大红拳的渊源、传播过程、拳系内容、技法、特点及所用别名均与红拳不相符合，可以说差 异甚大，完全可以说不是大“红”拳。刘文却无不与大鸿拳相似，可以说刘文讲的就是大鸿拳，仅一字之差，这一 个字却还是音同，只是字不同而已。这是什么原因呢？有一处您可需加注意，刘文是一篇口述笔录材料，口述笔录 材料出现笔误字是不可避免的，将“鸿”写成“红”，断定是实属笔误。

五、关于“图解大洪拳三晃膀”一文

《精武》2005年第10期第18页上刊登了胡文光先生的“图解大洪拳三晃旁”一文（以下简称为“胡文”） 。胡文说：“大洪拳三晃膀是集内外家于一体的近身短打拳，此拳强调调动内气，以气发力，架子名六六架，先天 纯阳，后天八九七十二为阴，运用全身；又名三晃膀，一晃无极静，二晃太极动，三晃混合气，水火济济，气存丹 田；又称六步架，以马步桩为根基，攻多崩炮，防多截肩，独具一体，有别于我国南方的洪拳和北方的红拳。”胡 文里又说：“大洪拳随朝末年为鸿仙所创，……他（鸿仙）善于观察……见两只公羊相抵斗架，累倒趴地不动，他 又结合自己与野兽搏斗的经验，由此悟出了拳法。”胡文里又说：“为了纪念鸿仙，又因该拳起势拧腰晃膀，势若 惊鸿展翅，黄淮流域一带习此艺者称其为鸿拳，‘鸿’通‘洪’，又名大洪拳。”

从胡文可以看出以下几个方面的问题：

一是胡文中所讲的大洪拳，从渊源、风格特点、技法、内容及别用拳名上都与洪拳不相符合，可以断定胡文中的大 洪拳不是大洪拳。二是胡文中说：“大洪拳，独具一体，有别于我国南方的洪拳和北方的红拳，”可还偏偏称是洪 拳，这是明显的矛盾。三是胡文里：“为了纪念鸿仙，又因该拳起势拧腰晃膀，势若惊鸿展翅，黄淮流域一带习此 艺者称其为鸿拳”，该文却偏偏又将“鸿拳”写成“洪拳”，其用意让人费解。四是胡文里有：“‘鸿’通‘洪’ ，又名大洪拳。”可我查遍了汉语字典和辞典也没找到“鸿”通“洪”的说法。《新华字典》第188页：对“鸿 ”的解释：（1）鸿雁（2）大；对“洪”角解释：（1）大（2）大水。《汉语成语小词典》第216页对“鸿 ”的解释为：（1）鸿雁（2）指书信（3）大（4）姓；第216页对“洪”的解释：（1）大（2）指洪水（ 3）姓。《现代汉语词典》第524页对“鸿”的解释为：（1）鸿雁（2）指书信（3）大（4）姓；第523 页对“洪”的解释：（1）大（2）指洪水（3）姓。《袖珍字海》第403页对“鸿”的解释为：（1）鸿雁（ 2）大（3）姓；第394页对“洪”的解释：（1）大水（2）大（3）中医脉象名（4）姓。在这些里面均没 看到有“鸿同洪”或“鸿通洪”的字样。这就是说，“鸿通洪”是说不通的，我不知道大鸿拳非得用这个“洪”字 不可？非得趟人家洪拳的浑水不行是为什么？

我觉的一个拳，就象一个产品，拳名就象商标，一个产品一个商标，人们看到商标便知道了这个产品一样，不能乱 来，不然就成了假冒产品。一个拳就应该有它的规范的拳名，人家的是大洪拳，你的也是，人家的是大红拳你的还 是，那你的拳到底是什么拳？这就让人无法理解，就无法使你的所谓的“大红拳”或“大洪拳”得到发扬和光大。 因此，我再次呼吁不要再把“大鸿拳”错误地写成“大红拳”和“大洪拳”了！

[Sal Canzonieri]

All that to say that the term Big Vast Fist is correct and not the terms Big Red or Big Flood Fists.

Cool, thanks. I had a copy of that article, but it is good to post it so everyone else can see.

[Royal Dragon]

Sal,
During Zhao Kuang Yin's life time, what style was he most known for? Was it the six step or monkey by chance?

[Sal Canzonieri]

Sal,
During Zhao Kuang Yin's life time, what style was he most known for? Was it the six step or monkey by chance?

There are no direct written records, they were burned in the Shaolin fire in the 1920s.

Most anyone can do is infer from other sources.



His relatives all do some kind of Hong Quan. No matter what part of China they moved to, east, west, north, or south. Many of these do a Six Step and an Ape-Monkey set.
General Qi Jiguang's book (and others like his book) said that TZ Chang Quan, Six Step, Ape Monkey, and Decoy Boxing are all basically the same material. And if you investigate, they indeed are.

Henan Shaolin does the Lao Hong Quan and the Da Hong Quan, both said to be derived from his Hong Quan style.
Also, there is this Guandong Hong Quan set.
All the Shaolin Taizu Hong Quan sets are mentioned in outside sources, such as novels, and this Dust in the Wind book.

Shandong province does Taizu Chang Quan and TZ Hong Quan that was originally from Henan Shaolin, but in their case Tazu just means Ancestral. Because this material comes from Shaolin at all, and because the Shaolin Taizu Chang Quan 32 set was so important and the foundation to all later Shaolin long fist sets (not the pre-existing Rou Quan sets), then Shandong says their long fist material is descended from Taizu Chang Quan.

Other areas of Northern China do some kind of Taizu Quan, most of them are descended from Shandong Long Fist. The other ones are a mystery where they got their material from.

So, the answer is most likely he did his family's military Hong Quan and added to it from his travels, where he learned more Hong Quan from Shanxi province and Rou Quan from Shaolin.

If any of the stories are true at all.

[Royal Dragon]

Hmm, that make a lot of sense.

As for the monkey set/s What is different about them? They don't seem to be anything more (technique wise), or different form the Hong sets. Is it just done with a movement flavor like how a Gibbon would move?

I have been doing my Tai Tzu sets with the flavor of other monkey styles I have been exposed to in the past (the long arm one from Silat), and it seems very natural, like that is how it should be done. It's like the Monkey permeates the whole system when done like that.

Am I wrong in thinking his Monkey was a major influence on how his art was done during his life? If I am right, then do you think maybe his Monkey was his actual specialty?

Of course this is all speculation, but it's fun to try and figure that out.

[Sal Canzonieri]

Hmm, that make a lot of sense.

As for the monkey set/s What is different about them? They don't seem to be anything more (technique wise), or different form the Hong sets. Is it just done with a movement flavor like how a Gibbon would move?

I have been doing my Tai Tzu sets with the flavor of other monkey styles I have been exposed to in the past (the long arm one from Silat), and it seems very natural, like that is how it should be done. It's like the Monkey permeates the whole system when done like that.

Am I wrong in thinking his Monkey was a major influence on how his art was done during his life? If I am right, then do you think maybe his Monkey was his actual specialty?

Of course this is all speculation, but it's fun to try and figure that out.

What Taizu Chang Quan is known for is LIFTING HANDS, that's the first of the 16 techniques (from the list of 16 masters found in Mantis Boxing and Shaolin). Lifting hands is ape like, and is one of the things that Tongbei Quan borrowed from Shaolin Hong Quan system. So, that's why it looks ape-like to people.

The major influence on Zhao's martial arts was the Shaolin Rou Quan, he was beaten by a Shaolin Monk when in Shanxi, and he followed the monks back to Henan Shaolin and begged to be taught the ideas (he wasnt' into form routines, being a military guy). He was a quick learner and got it within a few days. In return he showed them his family Hong Quan and together they created four sets of Lao Hong Quan, and clearly these sets are movements from the Rou Quan sets and the Big Vast (Hong) Quan military style. All the movements are easily found in both.

Later when he was emperor and they created the Taizu Chang Quan set, there are some postures from Lao Hong Quan in it, and the lifting hands technique (in the beginning of the form, it is the famous move where you slap with the right, spear or cover with the left and slap in the face with the right, it is found in EVERY style from the Henan villages located all around Chen Village, it is also in all Taiji styles because of this.) This movement is also found in the beginning section of the Shaolin Ape Monkey set.

It's not monkey set that is in the system, it's an Ape-monkey set, it's what they call a Gibbon in parts of China. This one:
http://www.gibbons.de/main/introduction/chapter_english08.html


It's not the Bai Yuan, the White Ape, which is like a big macaque that lives in mountainous areas (sometimes).
This one: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/factsheets/entry/rhesus_macaque
Tong Bei is based on the Bai Yuan and moves with loose whipping arm swings.

The Shaolin Ape-Monkey set is not silly monkey like movements. If you look at the videos on youtube I posted for the Rou Quan 36 sets, it is pretty much the same thing, the set follows similar sequence of postures, has the same first section as TZ Chang Quan 32, etc. It is done with an Ape-Monkey spirit, not copying the actual stuff they do, like the silly monkey sets that came from Sichuan Emei area originally.

Also, it is like is Xing Yi Monkey set.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKNF7FMIj6I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLrfm9VCVOY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrQKhX6I9wM

[Royal Dragon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3CI8I5Si_U

[Sal Canzonieri]

Found some info from a Chinese research paper on origins of Shaanxi Hong Quan, it mentions Song Taizu Zhao Kuangyin.

Can someone do a good translation summary of the historical facts listed in this part:

陕西红拳的历史渊源
　　陕西红拳的历史,要追溯到秦代。据《中国武术史》记载,秦时就已经出现了对练套路,而且最早盛行于“三 辅”,即今陕西关中一带,这是红拳的最 早雏形。据传,秦王嬴政每次打完胜仗的庆功会上,武士必跳拍打舞,“击皮为鼓”,以示庆贺,据考证,陕西红 拳炮锤套路中的“放炮”、“十三响”等动作,就 起源于此。
　　宋代武术为官方所重视,兵源文化得到发展,《武经总要》、《武学七经》等一批理论性著作陆续出版。相传 宋太祖赵匡胤是红拳的创始人,最早流 行于陕西关中。宋代把套路称为“使拳”,把棍术套路称为“使棒”,陕西方言称“耍拳”、“耍棍”,俗称“东 枪,西棍,关中拳”。由于关中拳在当时非常流 行,陕西方言称“耍红了”,因此,后来就被称为“红拳”。同时,在继承和发展武术方面,佛家与道家也起到了 重要的作用。《少林拳法》载有“元时觉远上人访 白玉峰于陕西兰州,入寺授技传大小红拳、棍术、擒拿等”。随着历史的变迁,现在的少林洪拳与陕西红拳截然不 同,少林洪拳以刚猛为主,陕西红拳则是柔里带 刚。
　　由于陕西红拳主要流传于陕西潼关至甘肃嘉峪关一带,地处中原以西,故明代陕西红拳又被称之为“西家拳” ,《续文献通考》所载宋宁宗嘉定五年 (1212年)至明末(1643年)的制度与事迹,亦载有当时流行的十一家拳术,据考证,其中的“西家拳” 即为陕西红拳,其惯用的拳势“雀地龙”、“裙 栏”等,一直沿用至今。
　　据故宫博物院藏《军机处录副奏折•农民运动》记载,清中叶后,民间教门中传习红拳者颇多。乾隆时的常子 敬、李子贵,嘉庆时的张景文、张洛 焦,道光时的张真、阚梦祥,光绪时的阎书勤等,皆是红拳拳师。山东冠县人张洛焦述其传承云,其叔张光谱学自 山西平遥人师来明,师氏于乾隆二十八年 (1763年)在陕西周至拜宝鸡人张阳真为师,学得红拳两套。这与红拳出自陕西相吻合。道光、咸丰年间,红 拳主要分三派,代表人物有三原高三(高家)、临 潼邢三(邢家)、潼关苏三(苏家),简称“三三”,他们与李四(擅长通臂,人称通臂李四)交情甚笃,互通拳 艺,奠定了现代红拳的基本风格,尤其是高三,他 博采众家之长,对红拳的继承、发展与推广起了很大的作用。目前,习练陕西红拳的老拳师中,有不少人都习练高 家红拳。另外,亦有邢家与苏家红拳,但传人不 多,尤其是苏家红拳,几乎绝迹。近代以来,陕西地方拳种与红拳之间的融会贯通,使它们具有相近 的风格特点。
　　尽管有关红拳的历史渊源至今说法不一,但“红拳源于陕西,并且是我国最早出现的拳种之一”这一观点,得 到了武术界的一致公认。

[Sal Canzonieri]

Here's some more important information:

一:红拳产生的地域文化

陕西是中华武术的重要发源地之一，自古长安“文武盛地”，历史上曾有十三个王朝在此建都，在世界文明史中曾 经诞生和发生着人类最辉煌的历史。“东有长安、西有罗马”，这里是中国五千年文化的索渊地。这里孕育着中国 华夏文化的精髓。有着周人的文雅，秦人的粗犷，汉人的豪迈，唐人的包容。这片地灵人杰之地，曾经诞生过周易 、周礼等先秦诸子文化的精髓；在这里曾经是儒、释、道先贤设坛演经之地；这里曾经诞生过有“虎狼之师”称谓 的世界上最强大的横扫六国大秦军团；这里曾经有过不破楼兰终不还的大汉军团；这里也有西出阳关，马革裹尸还 ，壮烈雄浑的大唐军团；这里曾经诞生过，万朝来仪、百域纳贡的盛景，三秦大地孕育出 “汉唐盛世”，造就了秦人充满阳刚之气，朴实豪放的性格。在这片厚重的黄土地上，有一朵深藏闺中的文化奇葩 ——红拳。“红拳”就诞生在这片具有浓郁中华文化传统的地域。“红拳”就是中国文化文治武力的缩影。就是中 国天人合一文化的表现形式，就是这片土地土生土长的精髓。陕西是中华武术的重要发源地之一,自 古长安"文武盛地,历史上曾有十三个王朝在此建都,在世界文明史中曾经诞生和发生着人类最辉煌的历史.东有长安,西 有罗马",这里是中国五千年文化的索渊地.这里孕育着中国华夏文化的精髓.有着周人的文雅,秦人的粗犷,汉人的豪迈 ,唐人的包容.这片地灵人杰之地,曾经诞生过周易,周礼等先秦诸子文化的精髓;在这里曾经是儒,释,道先贤 设坛演经之地,这里曾经诞生过有"虎狼之师"称谓的世界上最强大的横扫六国大秦军团;这里曾经有过不破楼兰终不还的大汉军团,这里也有西出阳关,马革裹 尸还,壮烈雄浑的大唐军团;这里曾经诞生过,万朝来仪,百域纳贡的盛景,三秦大地孕育出"汉唐盛世"造就了秦人充满阳刚之气,朴实豪放的性格.在这片厚重的黄土地上,有一朵深藏闺中的文化奇葩-红拳. "红拳"就诞生在这片具有浓郁中华文化传统的地域. "红拳"就是中国文化文治武力的缩影.就是中国天人合一文化的表现形式,就是这片土地土生土长的精髓.

二：红拳的起源 二:红拳的起源

红拳最早起源可追溯到周、秦。西周沣镐盛行“武舞”“角力”。秦时三辅（今陕西关中一带）盛行，“手搏”“ 击剑”长安附近尤甚，并以对练套路娱乐提高技艺（见《中国武术史》）。又据《史记.张仪传》记载：“秦人秦 声，舞秦舞击缶弹筝，击膊拊髀（bi）”，说是秦王嬴政打完胜仗后的庆功宴上，武士“击膊拊髀”（跳拍打舞 ）以示庆贺，这与现红拳演练套路中 “放炮”、“十大响”的有着同样的表现形式，与民间流传的红拳谚语“击皮为鼓”也同出一辙。“击膊拊髀”体 现秦人粗旷豪放，既练了“拍打之功”，又练了 “撑斩之法”红拳以“撑斩为母” 撑斩是红拳拳法的精髓。唐代红拳拳法称谓“唐手”“角抵”，唐代著名诗人李白都自称“十五好剑术”。唐代郭 子仪、薛仁贵、都是陕西出的名将。红拳最早起源可追溯到周,秦.西周沣镐盛行"武舞"角力. "秦时三辅(今陕西关中一带)盛行,"手搏"击剑"长安附近尤甚,并以对练套路娱乐提高技艺(见"中国武术史").又据"史记.张仪传"记载: "秦人秦声,舞秦舞击缶弹筝,击膊拊髀(bi)",说是秦王嬴政打完胜仗后的庆功宴上,武士"击膊拊髀(跳拍打舞)以示庆贺,这与现红拳演练套路中"放炮","十大响"的有着同样的表现形式,与民间流传的红拳谚语"击皮为鼓"也同出一辙.击膊拊髀"体现秦人粗旷豪放,既练了"拍打之功,又练了"撑斩之法"红拳以"撑斩为母"撑斩是红拳拳法的精髓.唐代红拳拳法称谓"唐手"角抵"唐代著名诗人李白都自称"十五好剑术.唐代郭子仪,薛仁贵,都是陕西出的名将.
红拳是陕西地拳的主流派，这是众所公认的。在陕西境内又以潼关、大散关为标志分为“关东红拳”、“关中红拳 ”和“关西红拳”三支。据说陕西境内不少拳术派列，大都是在“关中红拳”的基础上演变的。“关中红拳”以“ 小红拳”、“大红拳”、“二路红拳”“太祖红拳”、“粉红拳”“六趟”、“六架势”“炮锤”、 “四八锤”、为中心习练者最为广泛。红拳是陕西地拳的主流派,这是众所公认的.在陕西境内又以潼关,大散关 为标志分为"关东红拳", "关中红拳"和"关西红拳"三支.据说陕西境内不少拳术派列,大都是在"关中红拳"的基础上演变的. "关中红拳"以"小红拳", "大红拳", "二路红拳" "太祖红拳","粉红拳"六趟", "六架势"炮锤","四八锤"为中心习练者最为广泛.
红拳套路的形成应在唐末宋初。据陕西红拳师承世代相传得名于陕西西岳华山。据传，陈传（陈抟历史上确有其人 ，生于唐末。原籍亳州真源今安徽亳县境内，入长安考进士落榜，“五代”时隐居华山修道。后周世宗曾请他做官 而固辞不授。北宋太宗时赐号“希夷先生”，他所著的《无极图》现还刻于华山石壁。陈传为道家崇敬，专称为“ 陈抟老祖”）应举失意，心灰意冷便入华山隐居修道起来。一日他碰到了一位入山砍柴的老樵夫，见年纪有七十多 岁了，但身体强健，走路快捷。陈传上前行礼，询问此地风俗情况，老樵夫简略告知。以后又经常碰面，两人也就 熟悉了。有一天碰面后老樵夫对陈抟说：“深山中常有狼豹出入，看你很善良，但文弱体单，我愿将当地先辈祖传 下的一套拳术招法传授于你；一则防身，二则对修心养性强身健体也很有益处，你我有缘，不知你意 如何？” 陈传听后甚喜，将老樵夫请到他隐居之处，以师礼相拜，请予传授。老樵夫也很高兴，从这天开始规定每晨向陈传 传授拳法与练功于华山东峰上。红拳套路的形成应在唐末宋初.据陕西红拳师承世代相传得名于陕西西岳华山.据 传,陈传(陈抟历史上确有其人,生于唐末.原籍亳州真源今安徽亳县境内,入长安考进士落榜, "五代"时隐居华山修道.后周世宗曾请他做官而固辞不授.北宋太宗时赐号"希夷先生,"他所著的"无极图"现还刻于华山石壁.陈传为道家崇敬,专称为"陈抟老祖)应举失意,心灰意冷便入华山隐居修道起来.一日他碰到了一位入山砍柴的老樵夫,见年纪有七十多岁 了,但身体强健,走路快捷.陈传上前行礼,询问此地风俗情况,老樵夫简略告知.以后又经常碰面,两人也就熟 悉了.有一天碰面后老樵夫对陈抟说: "深山中常有狼豹出入,看你很善良,但文弱体单,我愿将当地先辈祖传下的一套拳术招法传授于你,一则防身,二 则对修心养性强身健体也很有益处,你我有缘, 不知你意如何? "陈传听后甚喜,将老樵夫请到他隐居之处,以师礼相拜,请予传授.老樵夫也很高兴,从这天开始规定每晨向陈传 传授拳法与练功于华山东峰上.

时间过的很快，陈传学武习拳已数月有余，他已基本掌握和熟练了。一天他向老樵夫说：“师父，你传授我的拳术 叫什么名称？”老樵夫听后哈哈大笑的说：“先辈祖传未说拳名。今先生问及，我看你要立志修道成仙，说明已看 破了红尘，但老夫乃是一凡夫俗子，红尘中一介百姓，也不想修道成仙，我给你教的拳路招法，实际上在我们当地 就流行着。你问的好，此拳应叫何名？我看，既是人间红尘中的拳法就叫'红拳'吧！”民间还传为宋代把套路称 为“使拳”，把棍术套路称为“使棒”，陕西方言称“耍拳，耍棍”，由于关中拳在当时耍的红火，后被称为红拳 。红拳也有艳美、吉祥之意。时间过的很快,陈传学武习拳已数月有余,他已基本掌握和熟练了.一天他向老樵夫 说: "师父,你传授我的拳术叫什么名称?"老樵夫听后哈哈大笑的说: "先辈祖传未说拳名.今先生问及,我看你要立志修道成仙,说明已看破了红尘,但老夫乃是一凡夫俗子,红尘中一 介百姓,也不想修道成仙,我给你教的拳路招法,实际上在我们当地就流行着.你问的好,此拳应叫何名?我看, 既是人间红尘中的拳法就叫'红拳'吧! "民间还传为宋代把套路称为"使拳,把棍术套路称为"使棒"陕西方言称"耍拳,耍棍,由于关中拳在当时耍的红火,后被称为红拳.红拳也有艳美,吉祥之意.

三：红拳的历史发展 三:红拳的历史发展

红拳在陕西这块特定的地域文化，和人文文化熏陶下有着很强的生命力，在宋代以前，陕西是中国文化政治中心， 也是武术高手云集之地，陕西红拳在交流中不断丰富其内容和完善。 红拳在陕西这块特定的地域文化,和人文文化熏陶下有着很强的生命力,在宋代以前,陕西是中国文化政治中心, 也是武术高手云集之地,陕西红拳在交流中不断丰富其内容和完善.
（1） ：在汉代建元三年（公元前138年）汉武帝为消除各地豪侠的势力下诏“徙（bi）郡国豪杰及訾 (zi) 三百万以上于茂陵”对各地豪侠首富强迫性迁徙陕西茂陵。大量的豪侠集中在茂陵，又使茂陵成了滋生豪侠的新的 策源地，这些豪侠子弟“少好侠，尚气力”击剑习马，爱好武艺，这些豪侠和与当地武侠融和丰富了红拳内容。现 今兴平茂陵、一带还是红拳盛行之地。陕西人称为“拳窝子” (1):在汉代建元三年(138年公元前)汉武帝为消除各地豪侠的势力下诏"徙(bi)郡国豪杰及訾(zi)三百万以上于茂陵"对各地豪侠首富强迫性迁徙陕西茂陵. 大量的豪侠集中在茂陵,又使茂陵成了滋生豪侠的新的策源地,这些豪侠子弟"少好侠,尚气力"击剑习马,爱好武艺,这些豪侠和与当地武侠融和丰富了红拳内容.现今兴平茂陵,一带还是红拳盛行之地.陕西 人称为"拳窝子"
（2）：在武则天长安二年（公元700）“诏天下诸州宣教武艺”，并确定在兵部主持下，每年为天下武士举行 一次考试，考试合格者授予武职。这就是我国科举制度中“武举”或“武科”的正式出台。自此以后，武举考试为 大多数封建王朝所承袭，成为封建王朝网罗武备人才的重要制度。武举的设立进一步刺激了长安城官宦子弟游侠习 武欲望，习拳、舞剑、扎枪、跑马射箭成为长安少年的主要内容，各地的武士汇集长安，又一次使红拳得到广泛交 流和提高。唐代著名诗人王维所写的七绝组诗《少年行》：“新丰美酒斗千斤，咸阳游侠多少年，相逢意气为君饮 ，系马高楼垂柳边。”充分体现了当时长安习武之风。 (2):在武则天长安二年(公元700) "诏天下诸州宣教武艺"并确定在兵部主持下,每年为天下武士举行一次考试,考试合格者授予武职.这就是我国科举制度中"武举"或"武科"的正式出台.自此以后,武举考试为大多数封建王朝所承袭,成为封建王朝网罗武备人才的重要制度.武举的设立 进一步刺激了长安城官宦子弟游侠习武欲望,习拳,舞剑,扎枪,跑马射箭成为长安少年的主要内容,各地的武士 汇集长安,又一次使红拳得到广泛交流和提高.唐代著名诗人王维所写的七绝组诗"少年行": "新丰美酒斗千斤,咸阳游侠多少年,相逢意气为君饮,系马高楼垂柳边."充分体现了当时长安习武之风.
在京城长安民间武侠常常仗义行侠，唐代宗广德元年（公元763年）土番兵陷京师，百姓涂炭，唐军四溃，代宗 逃往陕州。勤王郭子仪(697——781华州郑县今陕西华县人)仅仅收得散兵数千，形势危急。长安城内民间 武侠与潜入城内的唐将王甫取得联系，于同一天夜晚突然在城中心的朱雀街一起击鼓，鼓声大作，群侠齐呼，英勇 拼杀，土番兵仓惶出逃，溃不成军，京师收复，可见长安城习武人数之多，习武风之盛行。在西安至今还保留着地 名“习武园”和“教场门”。在京城长安民间武侠常常仗义行侠,唐代宗广德元年(公元763年)土番兵陷京师 ,百姓涂炭,唐军四溃,代宗逃往陕州.勤王郭子仪(697 to 781华州郑县今陕西华县人)仅仅收得散兵数千,形势危急.长安城内民间武侠与潜入城内的唐将王甫取得联系 ,于同一天夜晚突然在城中心的朱雀街一起击鼓, 鼓声大作,群侠齐呼,英勇拼杀,土番兵仓惶出逃,溃不成军,京师收复,可见长安城习武人数之多,习武风之盛 行.在西安至今还保留着地名"习武园"和"教场门.
明代，戚继光把红拳的技法作为训练士兵的必修科目：《纪效新书·拳经捷要篇》注解三十二势长又称明代,戚继 光把红拳的技法作为训练士兵的必修科目"纪效新书拳经捷要篇"注解三十二势长又称

红拳，拳谱中可见到“裙拦”撑、補、揭、抹、捅、劈、斩等，红拳拳谱至今还在沿用，如：戚继光《纪效新书· 拳经捷要篇》载“我前撑”“滚船劈靠抹”“鬼蹴脚抢人先着，補前扫转上红拳，背弓颠補劈揭起，穿心肘靠妙难 传”“回步颠短红拳”“雀地龙下盤腿法，前揭起後進红拳”。现存红拳拳谱也是以“撑補为母”《纪效新书·拳 经捷要篇》多处提到红拳，可见红拳在当时的影响之深。拳经中“披红”“推红”都是红拳至今还在沿用的招法。 红拳,拳谱中可见到" 裙拦"撑,补,揭,抹,捅,劈,斩等,红拳拳谱至今还在沿用,如:戚继光"纪效新书拳经捷要篇"载"我前撑""滚船劈靠抹"鬼蹴脚抢人先着,补前扫转上红拳,背弓颠补劈揭起,穿心肘靠妙难传" "回步颠短红拳"雀地龙下盘腿法,前揭起后进红拳.现存红拳拳谱也是以"撑补为母"纪效新书拳经捷要篇"多处提到红拳,可见红拳在当时的影响之深.拳经中"披红"推红"都是红拳至今还在沿用的招法.
明代王圻《续文献通考》所载“西家拳”其惯用拳势“雀地龙”“裙拦”等。清代在《清稗类钞.技勇类》中出现 过“大小红拳、关西拳的称谓。民间流传着“东枪西棍关中拳，东查，西红”的美誉。乾隆十六年夏季，乾隆帝见 池中荷花初放，乾隆得句云：“池中莲藕攥红拳”打谁？纪晓岚看到池子左边的蓖麻，便以问对句，答道：“岸上 麻叶伸绿掌”要啥？同样以问句相对，天衣无缝，令乾隆称奇，可见红拳在当时声誉。红拳传域甚广，有豫红、陇 红、川红、滇红等，尤以关中最盛。明代王圻"续文献通考"所载"西家拳"其惯用拳势"雀地龙"裙拦"等.清代在"清稗类钞.技勇类"中出现过"大小红拳,关西拳的称谓.民间流传着"东枪西棍关中拳,东查,西红"的美誉.乾隆十六年夏季,乾隆帝见池中荷花初放,乾隆得句云: "池中莲藕攥红拳"打谁?纪晓岚看到池子左边的蓖麻,便以问对句,答道"岸上麻叶伸绿掌"要啥?同样以问句相对,天衣无缝,令乾隆称奇,可见红拳在当时声誉.红拳传域甚广,有豫红,陇红,川红,滇 红等,尤以关中最盛.

从宋代以后由于文化中心南移和东迁，陕西人以皇家思想自居，八百里秦川土地肥沃，人民安居乐业，很少与外界 交流，因此保留了原汁原味的古老红拳，外地拳种进入陕西很快就会被红拳化，失去本来的面目，如陕西红拳套路 中的梅花拳、通背拳、翻拳等，只是套路的名而已。红拳发展离不开民间人民的热爱，在陕西六七十年代以前陕西 城乡习拳者几乎全练得是红拳，可以说当时村村都有习练红拳者，练红拳的拳师，把红拳和农村过会、玩社火、秦 腔融为一体，已成为陕西城乡主要的健身娱乐形式。从宋代以后由于文化中心南移和东迁,陕西人以皇家思想自居 ,八百里秦川土地肥沃,人民安居乐业,很少与外界交流,因此保留了原汁原味的古老红拳,外地拳种进入陕西很 快就会被红拳化,失去本来的面目,如陕西红拳套路中的梅花拳,通背拳,翻拳等,只是套路的名而已.红拳发展 离不开民间人民的热爱,在陕西六七十年代以前陕西城乡习拳者几乎全练得是红拳,可以说当时村村都有习练红拳 者,练红拳的拳师,把红拳和农村过会,玩社火,秦腔融为一体,已成为陕西城乡主要的健身娱乐形 式.

红拳历史人物 红拳历史人物

陈传与红拳 陈传与红拳

众所周知的华山“下棋古亭”传说，乃是陈传老祖与赵匡胤下棋留下的古迹。但流传至今的“关中红拳”有一路叫 “太祖红”，这路拳来历的渊源也与陈传老祖和赵匡胤的传说有关。“五代”末年，赵匡胤流落江湖，后经关东来 到了关中。有一天赵匡胤游西岳华山遇到了陈传，俩人对弈下棋于华山东峰之巅，以输赢华山为注。最后赵匡胤输 了，便将华山给了陈传。陈传见赵匡胤雄壮英武便说：“君子输了华山乃戏尔，今观壮士英雄无比，愿目观君武艺 本领与拳功，请勿推辞”赵匡胤施礼说：“请先生多多指教”。赵匡胤说完便演练了他经常喜欢又得少林和尚之点 的一路拳术。陈传观后只是点头微笑，赵匡胤请陈传指教。陈传老祖说：“君武功勇猛刚烈，技能非凡；可惜并非 上乘之功，如遇高手难以化力制敌。君要知，刚柔相济，内外相合，才是上乘的拳脚功夫”。接着陈传脱去外袍也 演练了一趟他随老樵夫所学之拳，该拳术在他长期练功体会中又赋予了不少新技巧与内功。赵匡胤观后佩服不已， 恳求陈传老祖传授。陈答应了并约定每日晨在东峰之巅来传授。每天太阳未出赵匡胤登上东峰跟陈传老祖习拳。赵 匡胤悉心习练，终于掌握了此拳。众所周知的华山"下棋古亭"传说,乃是陈传老祖与赵匡胤下棋留下的古迹.但流传至今的"关中红拳"有一路叫"太祖红"这路拳来历的渊源也与陈传老祖和赵匡胤的传说有关.五代"末年,赵匡胤流落江湖,后经关东来到了关中.有一天赵匡胤游西岳华山遇到了陈传,俩人对弈下棋于华山东峰之 巅,以输赢华山为注.最后赵匡胤输了,便将华山给了陈传.陈传见赵匡胤雄壮英武便说: "君子输了华山乃戏尔,今观壮士英雄无比,愿目观君武艺本领与拳功,请勿推辞"赵匡胤施礼说:"请先生多多指教.赵匡胤说完便演练了他经常喜欢又得少林和尚之点的一路拳术.陈传观后只是点头微笑,赵匡胤 请陈传指教.陈传老祖说: "君武功勇猛刚烈,技能非凡;可惜并非上乘之功,如遇高手难以化力制敌.君要知,刚柔相济,内外相合,才是上 乘的拳脚功夫. "接着陈传脱去外袍也演练了一趟他随老樵夫所学之拳,该拳术在他长期练功体会中又赋予了不少新技巧与内功.赵 匡胤观后佩服不已,恳求陈传老祖传授.陈答应了并约定每日晨在东峰之巅来传授.每天太阳未出赵匡胤登上东峰 跟陈传老祖习拳.赵匡胤悉心习练,终于掌握了此拳.

后来赵匡胤做了北宋王朝第一代开国之君，后人为避讳起见，把他随陈传所学的三十六势的“关中红拳”美其名为 “太祖红拳”。这路拳在民间一直流传至今。红拳在关中地区流传到北宋已成为陕西主流派的拳种。后来赵匡胤做 了北宋王朝第一代开国之君,后人为避讳起见,把他随陈传所学的三十六势的"关中红拳"美其名为"太祖红拳."这路拳在民间一直流传至今.红拳在关中地区流传到北宋已成为陕西主流派的拳种.

周侗与红拳 周侗与红拳

南宋时红拳更有所发展。北宋末年、南宋初年的一位武术大师周侗（约1040年—1119年）陕西华州潼关人 ：人称“陕西大侠铁臂膀周侗”精通陕西红拳技法，周侗出游于河南曾向抗金英雄，民族将领岳飞传授了“关中红 拳”的招数武功。 南宋时红拳更有所发展.北宋末年,南宋初年的一位武术大师周侗(约1040年-1119年)陕西华州潼关人:人称"陕西大侠铁臂膀周侗"精通陕西红拳技法,周侗出游于河南曾向抗金英雄,民族将领岳飞传授了"关中红拳"的招数武功.

李自成与红拳 李自成与红拳

李自成（1606--1645）子鸿基，陕西米脂县李继迁寨人。幼年酷嗜红拳，拜陕北罗拳师习练红拳。青年时期，率驿卒起义，加 入了闯王高迎祥领导的农民起义军。高迎祥牺牲后，众卒拥戴李自成，被尊称为李闯王。在潼关南塬与明军作战中 失利之后，李自成率不突围，仅带18骑进入商洛山中，休养生息，集结义军，整军经武，操练兵马，以谋东山再 起。在此期间，李自成与商南县李氏“蛮”人结拜兄弟，传其武艺。 李自成(1606 - 1645)子鸿基,陕西米脂县李继迁寨人.幼年酷嗜红拳,拜陕北罗拳师习练红拳.青年时期,率驿卒起义,加 入了闯王高迎祥领导的农民起义军.高迎祥牺牲后,众卒拥戴李自成,被尊称为李闯王.在潼关南塬与明军作战中 失利之后,李自成率不突围,仅带骑进入商洛18山中,休养生息,集结义军,整军经武,操练兵马,以谋东山再 起.在此期间,李自成与商南县李氏"蛮"人结拜兄弟,传其武艺.


商洛山，作为李自成转败为胜的起点，至今流传着许多关于他练兵习武的动人故事，流传着他的一些武术套路。对 这些宝贵的优秀传统武术套路，做好挖掘、研究工作，对于陕西武术界将是一件有意义的事情。为此，成立了以洪 述顺同志为执笔的商洛山传统武术挖掘整理组，在查阅历史资料、走访民间老拳师，寻找闯王武术的踪迹，终于在 商州龙王庙乡阎村84岁的老拳师阎生荣这里得到闯王武术的的由来。阎老拳师陈述并演练了1911年，由他继 承李氏“蛮”人后裔丹凤县茶房李新茂拳师所授的双股剑，黑虎拳一、二路、红拳、乾坤剑一、二路，五十五刀， 花枪，盘龙棍，黑虎单、双鞭等10个闯王武术拳械套路和基本功技法。对此，经红拳专家认真的研究和实地考证 ，并将这些套路行反复的比较和论证，最后确定了闯王拳，就是红拳。商洛山,作为李自成转败为胜的起点,至今 流传着许多关于他练兵习武的动人故事,流传着他的一些武术套路.对这些宝贵的优秀传统武术套路,做好挖掘, 研究工作,对于陕西武术界将是一件有意义的事情.为此,成立了以洪述顺同志为执笔的商洛山传统武术挖掘整理 组,在查阅历史资料,走访民间老拳师,寻找闯王武术的踪迹,终于在商州龙王庙乡阎村84岁的老拳师阎生荣这 里得到闯王武术的的由来.阎老拳师陈述并演练了1911年,由他继承李氏"蛮"人后裔丹凤县茶房李新茂拳师所授的双股剑,黑虎拳一,二路,红拳,乾坤剑一,二路,五十五刀,花枪,盘龙棍 ,黑虎单,双鞭等10个闯王武术拳械套路和基本功技法.对此,经红拳专家认真的研究和实地考证,并将这些套 路行反复的比较和论证,最后确定了闯王拳,就是红拳.

李叟、白玉峰与红拳 李叟,白玉峰与红拳

《少林拳法》载有“宋末觉远上人访李叟、白玉峰于陕西宝鸡、兰州，习练大小红拳。后白玉峰随觉远入少林寺传 授大小红拳、棍术、擒拿等”。少林红拳是从关中传入，随着历史的变迁，现在的少林洪拳与陕西红拳截然不同， 少林洪拳以刚猛为主，陕西红拳是柔里带刚，也称为软拳。 "少林拳法"载有"宋末觉远上人访李叟,白玉峰于陕西宝鸡,兰州,习练大小红拳.后白玉峰随觉远入少林寺传授大小红拳,棍术, 擒拿等" .少林红拳是从关中传入,随着历史的变迁,现在的少林洪拳与陕西红拳截然不同,少林洪拳以刚猛为主,陕西红 拳是柔里带刚,也称为软拳.

[Sal Canzonieri]

清代，红拳杰出人物 清代,红拳杰出人物

如：乾隆年间千邑（西千阳县）宋朝佐、凤翔（陕西凤翔县）司宝龙、耀州（陕西耀县）郭崇志、宝鸡张阳真（东 传红拳第一人陕西宝鸡人。据中国武术史载：“在公元 1763年清代乾隆二十八年，在周至县传授于山西平遥人师来明，师来明又传授于山东冠县人张普光，张普光传 张洛焦至使红拳传入山东” ） 。特别是道光，咸丰年间，陕西红拳发展到一个鼎盛时期，并出现“关中三三.一四”即：三原“鹞子高三”（高 占魁最早师承耀州郭崇志）、临潼“黑虎”邢三（邢福科师承凤翔司宝龙）及潼关“饿虎”苏三、“通背”李四。 四人皆精于红拳，为使红拳不向表演套路形式上发展，并在原红拳技法的基础上，共同研究了体现红拳技法的“四 究拳”。使红拳形成了以盘、法、势、理俱全的红拳体系。如:乾隆年间千邑(西千阳县)宋朝佐,凤翔(陕西凤 翔县)司宝龙,耀州(陕西耀县)郭崇志,宝鸡张阳真(东传红拳第一人陕西宝鸡人.据中国武术史 载: "在公元1763年清代乾隆二十八年,在周至县传授于山西平遥人师来明,师来明又传授于山东冠县人张普光,张 普光传张洛焦至使红拳传入山东).特别是道光,咸丰年间,陕西红拳发展到一个鼎盛时期,并出现"关中三三.一四"即:三原"鹞子高三(高占魁最早师承耀州郭崇志)临潼"黑虎"邢三(邢福科师承凤翔司宝龙)及潼关"饿虎"苏三, "通背"李四.四人皆精于红拳,为使红拳不向表演套路形式上发展,并在原红拳技法的基础上,共同研究了体现红拳技法 的"四究拳.使红拳形成了以盘,法, 势,理俱全的红拳体系.

近代红拳人物： 近代红拳人物:

陕西杰出人物胡景翼、杨虎城自幼就习练红拳、并将红拳在西北军中推广，胡景翼部队武术教官杨杰、冯玉祥部队 武术教官张鸣岐等均为当时著名红拳拳师。陕西杰出人物胡景翼,杨虎城自幼就习练红拳,并将红拳在西北军中推 广,胡景翼部队武术教官杨杰,冯玉祥部队武术教官张鸣岐等均为当时著名红拳拳师.


抗战时期，抗日义勇军中大刀队官兵也多习练红拳。1937年，红拳高派杨杰在西安与杨瑞轩酬建陕西省国术馆 ，任“高家拳”教练。1961年，74岁高龄的杨杰，应邀出席全国武术表演，受到国务院副总理习仲勋、国家 体育运动委员会副主任荣高棠等领导人的赞赏和接见。1961年，西安电影制片厂拍摄记录了杨杰先生的红拳套 路“燕青掌”、“子拳”、“子棍”“****枪”“春秋”刀等。抗战时期,抗日义勇军中大刀队官兵也多习练 红拳. 1937年,红拳高派杨杰在西安与杨瑞轩酬建陕西省国术馆,任"高家拳"教练. 1961年, 74岁高龄的杨杰,应邀出席全国武术表演,受到国务院副总理习仲勋,国家体育运动委员会副主任荣高棠等领导 人的赞赏和接见. 1961年,西安电影制片厂拍摄记录了杨杰先生的红拳套路"燕青掌", "子拳", "枪子棍""****" "春秋"刀等.

四：红拳人物介绍 四:红拳人物介绍

（1）：李自成与红拳 （1606--1645）子鸿基，陕西米脂县李继迁寨人。幼年酷嗜红拳，拜陕北延安罗君彦习练红拳及骑射、单刀。青年时期 ，率驿卒起义，加入了闯王高迎祥领导的农民起义军。高迎祥牺牲后，众卒拥戴李自成，被尊称为李闯王。在潼关 南塬与明军作战中失利之后，李自成率部突围，仅带18骑进入商洛山中，休养生息，集结义军，整军经武，操练 兵马，以谋东山再起。在此期间，李自成与商南县李氏“蛮”人结拜兄弟，传其武艺。 (1):李自成与红拳 (1606 to 1645)子鸿基,陕西米脂县李继迁寨人.幼年酷嗜红拳,拜陕北延安罗君彦习练红拳及骑射,单刀.青年时期 ,率驿卒起义,加入了闯王高迎祥领导的农民起义军.高迎祥牺牲后,众卒拥戴李自成,被尊称为李闯王.在潼关 南塬与明军作战中失利之后,李自成率部突围,仅带18骑进入商洛山中,休养生息,集结义军,整军经武,操练 兵马,以谋东山再起.在此期间,李自成与商南县李氏"蛮"人结拜兄弟,传其武艺.


商洛山，作为李自成转败为胜的起点，至今流传着许多关于他练兵习武的动人故事，在商洛民间仍有托名“闯王拳 ”的套路，和红拳特点同出一辙。商洛山,作为李自成转败为胜的起点,至今流传着许多关于他练兵习武的动人故 事,在商洛民间仍有托名"闯王拳"的套路,和红拳特点同出一辙.


（2）孙守法 （？—1647），字绳武，陕西临潼人幼习红拳，原为明末曹文诏部下，任游击。据载曾杀死过农民军领袖“点 灯子”，擒获过“不沾泥”和高迎祥，明亡后曾联合李自成余部贺珍等发动关中抗清起义。孙守法骁勇善战，善用 铁鞭，故史书上有“铁鞭孙守法”之号。顺治四年在兴安府药箭寨一战中，手持铁鞭打死10多名清兵，其亦战死 于此，陕西总督孟乔芳在给清廷的奏议中，还特别提到缴获“铁鞭一条”。 (2)孙守法 (? -1647),字绳武,陕西临潼人幼习红拳,原为明末曹文诏部下,任游击.据载曾杀死过农民军领袖"点灯子"擒获过"不沾泥"和高迎祥,明亡后曾联合李自成余部贺珍等发动关中抗清起义.孙守法骁勇善战,善用铁鞭,故史书 上有"铁鞭孙守法"之号.顺治四年在兴安府药箭寨一战中, 10手持铁鞭打死多名清兵,其亦战死于此,陕西总督孟乔芳在给清廷的奏议中,还特别提到缴获"铁鞭一条.


（3）：梁化凤 ，陕西长安县人，幼习红拳，善拳勇，嗜拳技。史载：“顺治十六年五月，郑成功大举入长江，六月破镇江，七月 至江宁城下，二十三日清将梁化凤破郑成功擒杀大将甘辉等十四人，十月郑成功还至厦门。梁化凤因救驾有功官封 太子太保衔。” (3):梁化凤,陕西长安县人,幼习红拳,善拳勇,嗜拳技.史载: "顺治十六年五月,郑成功大举入长江,六月破镇江,七月至江宁城下,二十三日清将梁化凤破郑成功擒杀大将甘辉 等十四人,十月郑成功还至厦门.梁化凤因救驾有功官封太子太保衔. "


（4）：殷化行 （1644—1710），字熙如，原籍山西沁水县人，王姓，明末全家躲避战乱，迁至陕西咸阳靳李村，改姓为 殷。在疆场上战斗大半生，在平定三藩之乱和征讨噶尔丹战争中立有殊勋，是康熙年间的名将。自幼习红拳，好读 兵书。康熙四年（1665年）中武举，八年由武进士授守备职，后擢台湾、襄阳，宁夏总兵官。三十四年冬，皇 上亲征厄鲁转，殷化行随大将军费杨古、振武将军孙思克出西路征噶尔丹，与之会战于昭莫多，打败噶尔丹部，立 大功。三十六年康熙西巡，为表彰殷化行在昭莫多战役中的出色表现，特授予参赞之职。“总兵官王化行去岁出征 噶尔丹之役，见其人才矫健，队伍警齐，尤著劳绩，大将军费杨古来亦奏其功，绿营总兵官向无授为参赞之例，着 王化行于此役军中为参赞赐孔雀翎，还赐御书'深沉节制'四字。”擢广东提督。 (4):殷化行 (1644-1710),字熙如,原籍山西沁水县人,王姓,明末全家躲避战乱,迁至陕西咸阳靳李村,改姓为殷.在疆场上 战斗大半生,在平定三藩之乱和征讨噶尔丹战争中立有殊勋,是康熙年间的名将.自幼习红拳,好读兵书.康熙四 年(1665年)中武举,八年由武进士授守备职,后擢台湾,襄阳,宁夏总兵官.三十四年冬,皇上亲征厄鲁转 ,殷化行随大将军费杨古,振武将军孙思克出西路征噶尔丹,与之会战于昭莫多,打败噶尔丹部,立大功.三十六 年康熙西巡,为表彰殷化行在昭莫多战役中的出色表现,特授予参赞之职. "总兵官王化行去岁出征噶尔丹之役,见其人才矫健,队伍警齐,尤着劳绩,大将军费杨古来亦奏其功,绿营总兵官 向无授为参赞之例,着王化行于此役军中为参赞赐孔雀翎,还赐御书'深沉节制'四字.擢广东提督 .


（5）李麟，字振公，其先世延安人也，徙居咸阳马泉镇红拳之乡程家堡。红拳名师，乾隆年间平定三藩，征讨大 小金川叛乱，因胆气过人，精于双刀，屡立战功，被乾隆封赏赐匾。 (5)李麟,字振公,其先世延安人也,徙居咸阳马泉镇红拳之乡程家堡.红拳名师,乾隆年间平定三藩,征讨大 小金川叛乱,因胆气过人,精于双刀,屡立战功,被乾隆封赏赐匾.


（6）段永福 （？—1842），清朝将领，陕西长安人，乡良出身。幼习红拳，膂力出众，曾参与镇压川、陕、楚三省反清叛 逆组织。道光初，随杨芳平乱，亲手缚擒叛首张格尔，功任千总、守备、参将、广西提督、浙江提督 。 (6)段永福 (? -1842),清朝将领,陕西长安人,乡良出身.幼习红拳,膂力出众,曾参与镇压川,陕,楚三省反清叛逆组织 .道光初,随杨芳平乱,亲手缚擒叛首张格尔,功任千总,守备,参将,广西提督,浙江提督.
师宝龙 (1765-1845) 别名师己，行六，陕西凤翔府石家营人。家室殷富，文武世家，中科连捷之士代不乏其人，据其后人讲述，家门原 有石牌坊为朝廷赐建。乾嘉年间被称为红拳大家，技艺精妙为陕、甘、川省武林所称道，精技击，有南山打虎之传 ，增与千阳县南寨源红拳名家宋朝佐相友善，又与临潼黑虎邢三为莫逆之交，其成就非凡：箸有红拳 “师宝龙拳法”流传于世。 师宝龙 (1765-1845)别名师己,行六,陕西凤翔府石家营人.家室殷富,文武世家,中科连捷之士代不乏其人,据其后人讲 述,家门原有石牌坊为朝廷赐建.乾嘉年间被称为红拳大家,技艺精妙为陕,甘,川省武林所称道,精技击,有南 山打虎之传,增与千阳县南寨源红拳名家宋朝佐相友善,又与临潼黑虎邢三为莫逆之交,其成就非凡 :箸有红拳"师宝龙拳法"流传于世.

[Sal Canzonieri]

I posted a new video I found in my archives of the
Da Hong Quan - Big Vast Fist - Liu Bu Jia set:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0f5rFcABOyo

and also attached to it is a video of a Xiao Hong Quan set, from the same system, which I think is the Er Bu Jia, Two Step Frame set, which is extremely rare to see demonstrated.
if I am right or wrong, let me know, thanks!

The second set is very Tai Zu Chang Quan like.

[Sal Canzonieri]

There's some speculation that the Shaolin Tongbi Quan sets, since they have no connection to the Tong Bei Quan style, were derived from the Big Vast Fist style (local village hong quan) and merged with some Shaolin sets (pao quan, hong quan, ?).

In these videos of the Shaolin Da Tongbi Quan set, I see that 80% or more of the movements are found in the Big Vast Fist (should really be translated as Big Swan Boxing), except done with a Shaolin flavor (changes in detail).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSNB4ZNfs6k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnjpCj9Ehgs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od-vIuaMLQE