Burning Palm System

[lungyuil]

My Sifu has decided to let out this rare internal art. Anyone wishing to learn the authentic rare system please visit his website for more details.

http://burningpalm.webs.com/index.html

thanks

[taai gihk yahn]

from the website:
"This is also a complete fighting system that develops an Internal Springy Force that can leave an imprint of your hand on or within your opponents body, causing seriously internal bleeding."

dude, like, seriously?

[IronWeasel]

from the website:
"This is also a complete fighting system that develops an Internal Springy Force that can leave an imprint of your hand on or within your opponents body, causing seriously internal bleeding."

dude, like, seriously?



Srsly.





...........

[IronWeasel]

My Sifu has decided to let out this rare internal art. Anyone wishing to learn the authentic rare system please visit his website for more details.

http://burningpalm.webs.com/index.html

thanks



So...

You've been developing this since '96?

And when you hit someone it leaves a mark?

I think someone already invented that system.

It's called Smacking.

[gwa sow]

oh oh, i wanna learn springy force.

[IronWeasel]

oh oh, i wanna learn springy force.



It HAS to work...they've been developing it since'96.:)

[lungyuil]

hahahaha..
well i guess each to their own right??
The system has been around for centuries, but my sifu has been training in it since 96.

Beleive what you want to.....
Anyway Weasel you need to seriously stop smacking it.........You could go blind!!!

[IronWeasel]

hahahaha..
well i guess each to their own right??
The system has been around for centuries, but my sifu has been training in it since 96.

Beleive what you want to.....
Anyway Weasel you need to seriously stop smacking it.........You could go blind!!!


Back at ya, hot stuff...

[IronWeasel]

Back at ya, hot stuff...



Ever train with meditation?

Care to describe it to me?

[Scott R. Brown]

Well I am happy to announce that I will finally be teaching my own Internal Chi Kung System as well!

Although the details of this style are well known, and millennia old, I have collated them into an organized system in order to fleece you sheep....er...I mean in order to make this rare and arcane information available for all people.

What is the name of this common, yet rare, system of Chi Kung, I know you are asking???

It is called "Hairy Palm"!

I know, I know you think you are already familiar with this rare technique, but MY new system will make you bigger.....faster...stronger..... than you have ever imagined possible!

$1,000 up front and a $250 a month with a commitment for 12 months. This includes a free subscription to a particular magazine and website designed to provide visual imagery in order to enhance your personal experience!

PM me...those who are interested! :cool:

[IronWeasel]

Well I am happy to announce that I will finally be teaching my own Internal Chi Kung System as well!

Although the details of this style are well known, and millennia old, I have collated them into an organized system in order to fleece you sheep....er...I mean in order to make this rare and arcane information available for all people.

What is the name of this common, yet rare, system of Chi Kung, I know you are asking???

It is called "Hairy Palm"!

I know, I know you think you are already familiar with this rare technique, but MY new system will make you bigger.....faster...stronger..... than you have ever imagined possible!

$1,000 up front and a $250 a month with a commitment for 12 months. This includes a free subscription to a particular magazine and website designed to provide visual imagery that enhance your personal experience!

PM me...those who are interested! :cool:




Yes...I've tried this technique. The pal penetrates DEEPER, HARDER, FASTER that before!!!

[Scott R. Brown]

Yes...I've tried this technique. The pal penetrates DEEPER, HARDER, FASTER that before!!!

I am sure you are familiar with the rudimentary techniques common to all men, however for truly outstanding results you MUST purchase MY system or you will remain a little girly man who thinks he can compete with REAL men.

In reality are being laughed at behind your back by those who have learned this TRUE esoteric system!

You will also learn the secret hand sign in order to recognize others who have learned this secret method!

[Scott R. Brown]

Just think what an advantage you would have if you combined the Hairy Palm with your Iron Weasel!

[lungyuil]

Weasel..No i don't care to describe it to you..You guys want answers to justify the system, yet all you do is be rude...**** Off...You are all nothing to me and therefore i do not acknowledge you...Interesting how you poke **** at people when you claim poison hand and iron palm, Burning Palm is a rare iron palm in itself..

I don't make fun of your poison hand nor do i care...I didn't realise you people were the only authorities on iron palm systems....Oh Well i guess we all have our own insecurities.

Oh and Scott...I won't even waste my time..

[Scott R. Brown]

Weasel..No i don't care to describe it to you..You guys want answers to justify the system, yet all you do is be rude...**** Off...You are all nothing to me and therefore i do not acknowledge you...Interesting how you poke **** at people when you claim poison hand and iron palm, Burning Palm is a rare iron palm in itself..

I don't make fun of your poison hand nor do i care...I didn't realise you people were the only authorities on iron palm systems....Oh Well i guess we all have our own insecurities.

Oh and Scott...I won't even waste my time..

LOL! First of all....IT IS A JOKE!!!! Lighten up! Just about everyone who comes on here advertising gets razzed about it! That is the nature of the BB beast. David Ross gets razzed for his ads and Gene Ching, who owns the fricken board, is teased from time to time as well! So there is no favoritism here!

If you can't play with the big boys, go play somewhere else. If you were as secure as you pretend, you would not feel the need to respond so defensively.

By responding the way you have to the jokes and ridicule you are demonstrating you DO care. Not caring is demonstrated by not responding at all!

If you think we are jerks, then just don't respond.

If the program is any good, it will speak for itself through results!

But on an public board everything and everyone is fair game. Like Tao, the Board is no respecter of men! All who post are open to razzing and ridicule! There is always likely to be someone who will disagree, ridicule or disrespect you.

If you can't deal with it, then go play somewhere safe....this is the freeway:eek:....we like to live dangerously!!:D

I even have a hit out on someone, but he is a coward and is always hiding and pretending to be my friend all the time...but I'll get him eventually!

...and HE DOES KNOW WHO HE IS!!:mad:

[taai gihk yahn]

You guys want answers to justify the system, yet all you do is be rude...
:rolleyes:


**** Off...
so much for the calm equanimity brought on by meditation practice, huh?

and that was only just after the night time crowd weighed in...


You are all nothing to me and therefore i do not acknowledge you...
um, newsflash - when you respond like this, you are, de facto, "acknowledging"...

maybe you should also do a little homework on the "rep" of your system / teacher before you go posting his "stuff" on a given board, LOL (say hi to the good "doctor" when you talk to him, BTW)

[Scott R. Brown]

:rolleyes:


so much for the calm equanimity brought on by meditation practice, huh?

and that was only just after the night time crowd weighed in...


um, newsflash - when you respond like this, you are, de facto, "acknowledging"...

maybe you should also do a little homework on the "rep" of your system / teacher before you go posting his "stuff" on a given board, LOL (say hi to the good "doctor" when you talk to him, BTW)

Hiding in plane sight again I see!:p

[David Jamieson]

My Sifu has decided to let out this rare internal art. Anyone wishing to learn the authentic rare system please visit his website for more details.

http://burningpalm.webs.com/index.html

thanks

fyi-

Doo Wai is not taken seriously as a martial artist of much merit.

...well, except by you and that other dude Harut.

Too immature and demonstratively ineffective flailing has brought this upon his house.

Just saying that you are better off lying low with this stuff when it comes to major kungfu forums like this one because all you will be met with here is ridicule and imo rightly so.

maybe he should take up feng shui and try selling that.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Burning Palm?
Bah !!
That is no match for my watering schlong technique !!
:p

[David Jamieson]

Burning Palm?
Bah !!
That is no match for my watering schlong technique !!
:p

You should really see a doctor about that dude. :eek:


:p

[Dale Dugas]

I say wait and see before you judge anything.

I have to try peoples hands before I really know if they have skill or not.

I have known the poster for a very long time as well as knowing Shifu Wai, who has helped me learn the intricacies of Dit Da healing.

Good luck with your training Brother.

[sanjuro_ronin]

You should really see a doctor about that dude. :eek:


:p

Its a voluntary condition, anyone for water sports ?
:D

[MightyB]

Burning Palm?
Bah !!
That is no match for my watering schlong technique !!
:p

Penicillin should clear that right up.

[lkfmdc]

I have a feeling Kwaichang will be doing this system in a few days :rolleyes:

[David Jamieson]

I have a feeling Kwaichang will be doing this system in a few days :rolleyes:

and for a few days as well! :p

[Scott R. Brown]

I say wait and see before you judge anything.

I have to try peoples hands before I really know if they have skill or not.

Then why have I not received your PM inquiring about more information on my HAIRY PALM system of Chi Kung!:)

[IronWeasel]

Weasel..No i don't care to describe it to you..You guys want answers to justify the system, yet all you do is be rude...**** Off...You are all nothing to me and therefore i do not acknowledge you...Interesting how you poke **** at people when you claim poison hand and iron palm, Burning Palm is a rare iron palm in itself..

I don't make fun of your poison hand nor do i care...I didn't realise you people were the only authorities on iron palm systems....Oh Well i guess we all have our own insecurities.

Oh and Scott...I won't even waste my time..



Lol....

The jokes fly and you're okay with that.

I ask a serious question and you flip out like this.

What gives?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Lol....

The jokes fly and you're okay with that.

I ask a serious question and you flip out like this.

What gives?

Maybe his palms are burning.

[David Jamieson]

Maybe his palms are burning.

for sure his ears are. lol

[IronWeasel]

Just think what an advantage you would have if you combined the Hairy Palm with your Iron Weasel!



Yep...

I call that Saturday night!!:D

[B-Rad]

Doo Wai is a fraud. No need to try his hands, as anything that clown has worth learning could probably be found someplace more reputable.

[Dale Dugas]

calling someone one a fraud and a clown is pretty harsh.

How about you put up some videos of you doing forms, breaking and what not and we can critique you?


Myself and others put up film. How about yourself.

Be a man and quit being an coward who snipes at people behind the internet.

This coming from a man who says he trains taijiquan and reads comic books.

Wow.

[lkfmdc]

calling someone one a fraud and a clown is pretty harsh.

How about you put up some videos of you doing forms, breaking and what not and we can critique you?


Myself and others put up film. How about yourself.

Be a man and quit being an coward who snipes at people behind the internet.

This coming from a man who says he trains taijiquan and reads comic books.

Wow.

Normally Dale I am on your side, but where Doo Wai is concerned I'm afraid I will add my name to the LONG LIST of people who think he is 300% full of BS

[TenTigers]

I don't know if he's BS, or simply that he takes the marketing approach that Non-Asians will believe anything you tell them and pay for it, so he heaps it in bucketloads. He seems to know Bak Mei, and all the sets, knows some ch'i-gung, iron palm, and dit-da.
But, he sells it so heavily, he has a gazillion different palms, each with several different "meditations" which are all variations of percentage breathing-seeems to be simply re-packaging the same thing.. His jow formulas are "in the original Monk's handwriting," and of course he claims total exclusivity, dating back to Fung Do Duk and Miu Hing, etc, etc.
Take away all the marketing gimmickry, and he probably has some decent stuff. In the seventies, I believe there were some well-known MA folks who trained with him.
Dale, you seem to feel he is legit, and had mentioned he gave you some good info on dit=da healing. Care to share your experience with us?

[lkfmdc]

I don't know if he's BS, or simply that he takes the marketing approach that Non-Asians will believe anything you tell them and pay for it, so he heaps it in bucketloads.



There are reasons I say his BOTH a "fraud" and a "clown"




He seems to know Bak Mei, and all the sets,



He knows SOME pak mei, and what he knows you can easily argue he does wrong

No one remembers the time he took a gim and did a dan dou set with it :eek:




knows some ch'i-gung, iron palm, and dit-da.



His iron palm appears to be nothing more than carnival tricks, including the one where he "spontaneously" makes fire in his palm

his chi kung is often the run of the mill YI Chin Ching sort of stuff re-warmed, added to some other cool looking movement, repackaged, fake legend attached and BINGO that will be $500 :rolleyes:




His jow formulas are "in the original Monk's handwriting," and of course he claims total exclusivity, dating back to Fung Do Duk and Miu Hing, etc, etc.



Doo Wai apparently didn't originally realize that the Miu/Miao family is alive and well in China. And they are a really anally retentive sort who have family records up the chimney

Suffice to say, Doo Wai has NO relationship with Miu Tin/Miu Hin/Miao Tien nor with Miu Ga Kyuhn

They sued him in China and he of course failed to appear, so they won

Of course, the fake forum, the ongoing rivalry with the "bearded freak" and, well, come on, you've seen it... that's what makes him the "clown" part

[TenTigers]

well, you've certainly sewn that one up pretty tight, no arguments there. Still, I would be interested in hearing Dale's experiences with him.
Sometimes, especially twenty years ago, when TCMA doors were not as open as they are now (more or less) to non-Asians, all it took was an Asian guy to have rudimentary knowledge of MA and non-Asians flocked to him like Jesus and hung on his every word. I think "Sifu Chang" was one who took PT Barnum's credo to heart... (you know who I mean):rolleyes:

[David Jamieson]

This calls for a "Santa's freakish summer vid"

freaky santa (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFhxUwz7LlE)

[TenTigers]

many moons ago, he offerd me the "Grandmastership" of his family's Bak Mei, for several thosand bucks. Ahhh..but I hesitated, see, and someone else is now the Grandmaster. (sigh)
then again..It might have been "The Bearded Freak" who made the offer...that might've made me the "non-authorized Grandmaster! YIKES!

[lkfmdc]

well, you've certainly sewn that one up pretty tight, no arguments there. Still, I would be interested in hearing Dale's experiences with him.
Sometimes, especially twenty years ago, when TCMA doors were not as open as they are now (more or less) to non-Asians, all it took was an Asian guy to have rudimentary knowledge of MA and non-Asians flocked to him like Jesus and hung on his every word. I think "Sifu Chang" was one who took PT Barnum's credo to heart... (you know who I mean):rolleyes:

I'd mention Bruce Lee, but the forum would go up in flames like Shaolin temple :D

Ah, yes, "Sifu Chang" ... dear lord, did you have to bring him up? My brain is hurting (so is my side from laughing!)

[David Jamieson]

Is it freaky santa? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFhxUwz7LlE)

omg you guys aren't gonna bring up the "more pie" nonsense are you?

[lkfmdc]

many moons ago, he offerd me the "Grandmastership" of his family's Bak Mei, for several thosand bucks. Ahhh..but I hesitated, see, and someone else is now the Grandmaster. (sigh)

I talked him down a bit, then sent him a rubber check, but by the time he realized it, I had the certificate, the decoder ring and the secret handshake :D

[TenTigers]

Is it freaky santa? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFhxUwz7LlE)

omg you guys aren't gonna bring up the "more pie" nonsense are you?

that is a great vid. If you turn the sound up, you can hear him saying,"Are you talkin to me?"


(I would let MJ babysit my kids before him...)

[taai gihk yahn]

calling someone one a fraud and a clown is pretty harsh.
fair enough; that said, here (http://www.WhiteTigerWorld.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=45&Itemid=64) is my all time "favorite", Doo Wai doing straight sword; quite frankly, I don't how else to characterize it except that it is embarrassing and basically the worst example of gim / jian I have ever had the misfortune to see;


How about you put up some videos of you doing forms, breaking and what not and we can critique you?
good point; ok, so this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8a9Fk-zYCk4) is me doing gim / jian in Jan, 2006 (two-handed, and it's not a lightweight "wushu" blade, BTW); not saying I am the bee's knees or anything, just putting it up as substantiation that I have some clue re: use of the weapon, so that I can validly critique the first video;

as Dave mentioned earlier, Dale is an established and well-respected Sifu; and it is to Wai Sifu's credit that someone as legitimate as Dale gives him props; that said, it is really the ONLY instance of legitimacy that has come Doo Wai's way in my experience, everything else being just shy of krazy...

[B-Rad]

calling someone one a fraud and a clown is pretty harsh.

Not sure how else to refer to someone that lies, posts phony qigong demos online, and is a general embarrassment to the martial arts in general.


How about you put up some videos of you doing forms, breaking and what not and we can critique you?


Myself and others put up film. How about yourself.

I had some video of me practicing xingyi quan up for a bit awhile ago, but took it down. I got some nice comments and good advice, and I'll probably put up some video again in the future when I feel up to it. As for breaking, what do you want me to break? I've done a few boards and concrete for public demos, but don't do it regularly (not a particularly useful training tool). I bet I could learn a sword form from video for a month and do it better than your friend. Sorry I don't go around video taping myself for a bunch of random strangers to watch. I figure there's plenty of better examples online, and I'm not interested in advertising for anything right now.



Be a man and quit being an coward who snipes at people behind the internet.

This coming from a man who says he trains taijiquan and reads comic books.

Wow.

You're right, practicing taiji and reading comics makes me unable to see a guy doing fake qigong tricks, horrible sword work, making barely comprehensible profanity laced rants, and impersonating people online. You may be a good martial artist, but your character judgment is terrible.

[Yao Sing]

Does a hat come with the seminar? It might be worthwhile if I can get one of those hats.

BTW, I think Star Wars Kid has a seminar coming up soon it any of you want to learn Light Saber.

[taai gihk yahn]

Hiding in plane sight again I see!:p

standing naked in my underwear...

[Scott R. Brown]

standing naked in my underwear...

With your gim in your hand?:eek:

[David Jamieson]

Yeah the freaky chef outfit is cool.

mostly the hat. the voyageur belt, not so much.

:D

[taai gihk yahn]

With your gim in your hand?:eek:

it's a two-handed gim :mad:

[Scott R. Brown]

it's a two-handed gim :mad:

So you WERE in that....uh....movie!:eek:

[sha0lin1]

If you train this burning palm technique, it is advisable not to pick up babies, your hands will fry them they get so hot. I repeat, Never touch a baby when you train burning palm.

[Scott R. Brown]

If you train this burning palm technique, it is advisable not to pick up babies, your hands will fry them they get so hot. I repeat, Never touch a baby when you train burning palm.

Yeah, but it is a great way to warm a cup of coffee!:)

[Lokhopkuen]

fair enough; that said, here (http://www.WhiteTigerWorld.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=45&Itemid=64) is my all time "favorite", Doo Wai doing straight sword; quite frankly, I don't how else to characterize it except that it is embarrassing and basically the worst example of gim / jian I have ever had the misfortune to see;
<SNIP>

WTF was that?:eek:

Oh I see that's Joel Rizzo's site.

I met him some years ago.

Nice guy but didn't know a lick of gung fu.

Now I see why.

[taai gihk yahn]

WTF was that?:eek:

Oh I see that's Joel Rizzo's site.

I met him some years ago.

Nice guy but didn't know a lick of gung fu.

Now I see why.

wait until Dr. Harut reads this (we KNOW he's watching...)

[goju]

is this the same thing i saw on the coast to coast website where some guy claims he can channel fire through his hands and shows a flame burning in his palm?

[taai gihk yahn]

is this the same thing i saw on the coast to coast website where some guy claims he can channel fire through his hands and shows a flame burning in his palm?

No - that had at least a chance of being credible...

[Dr.Harut]

Yes, I am watching...sitting back and laughing loud, because all those who say that GM Doo Wai is fraud, do not know Him personally, never touch hands with Him...they just assume and they think their all assumptions are right.

I also think that besides me ...there is another person who is not showing himself and all of you respect him...he is/was a sparring partner of one of GM Doo Wai's friends...I assume this person is also sitting back and laughing....I may be wrong in my assumption.

Am not posting to defend Bak Fu Pai system...you think its fake?..let it be...you think GM Doo Wai doesn't know any martial arts?...let it be....but based on my personal experiance through what I see in my trainings in Bak Fu Pai and what I achieve and will achieve...I am happy and feel fortunate that I am in Bak Fu Pai..and I'll remain Bak Fu Pai...and my descendents also will be trained in Bak Fu Pai....just for clarification..am not a beginner in martial arts.

Yes, I come to this forum, because there are threads I enjoy reading them.

[lkfmdc]

I also think that besides me ...there is another person



kwaichang the racist? :eek:

[taai gihk yahn]

it's probably because they are constantly getting taken to the shed (thanks for that expression, Scott) for what they do...

they always start off like this:

You are all nothing to me and therefore i do not acknowledge you...

Am not posting to defend Bak Fu Pai system...you think its fake?..let it be...you think GM Doo Wai doesn't know any martial arts?...let it be

and so, after all the preamble of non-acknowledgement / non-defending, we get:

Interesting how you poke **** at people when you claim poison hand and iron palm, Burning Palm is a rare iron palm in itself..
I don't make fun of your poison hand nor do i care...I didn't realise you people were the only authorities on iron palm systems....Oh Well i guess we all have our own insecurities.
seems like that sure was an acknowledgement to me...


based on my personal experiance through what I see in my trainings in Bak Fu Pai and what I achieve and will achieve...I am happy and feel fortunate that I am in Bak Fu Pai..and I'll remain Bak Fu Pai...and my descendents also will be trained in Bak Fu Pai....just for clarification..am not a beginner in martial arts.
not defending BFP, eh? yeah, and Marc Anthony only came to bury Caesar....:rolleyes:

all cut from the same krazy cloth...

and I am still waiting for someone to explain to me, as how a supposed "grandmaster" can perform something as ridiculous and absurd as this (http://www.WhiteTigerWorld.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=45&Itemid=64) and expect to be taken in the least bit seriously...

[lkfmdc]

This is getting SERIOUS!

Don't mess with Doo Wai! Look what I just found out!

[Scott R. Brown]

and I am still waiting for someone to explain to me, as how a supposed "grandmaster" can perform something as ridiculous and absurd as this (http://www.WhiteTigerWorld.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=45&Itemid=64) and expect to be taken in the least bit seriously...

Well first of all...he hasn't received permission from Chuck to demonstrate the secret teachings yet...

...so he is clumsy on purpose,YOU DOLT!

...(Don't you know anything? That should have been obvious!)...

...and secondly...

...MR. KNOW IT ALL....

...not everyone can use three hands on a two handed gim!

...so stop being so superior...

...or I'm telling you you! :p

[lungyuil]

WOW.. i am gone for a few days and it is still going...LOL
The burning palms are real..believe what you want..I am not the one insecure nor is my sifu about our arts, otherwise we wouldn't have posted it here nor would he be putting it out on DVD.
I know what i have seen from my sifu and of GM Doo, therefore your ridicule is normal for most of you because i guess you know no better.
I must admit, hearing the same crap over and over you would think you would be tired of it..hahahahaha..I guess not...

Anyway,
The energy we get from the meds and the conditioning from the training is all real, you can't make up the results..
My sifu is here to share this knowledge and unfortunately for those of you who think it is crap are probably going to miss out on a great chi gung system.

Cheers and thanks for your time and efforts in keeping this thread alive...Much Appreciated
Lungyuil.

[Dr.Harut]

This is getting SERIOUS!

Don't mess with Doo Wai! Look what I just found out!

Am asking the admins and moderators of this forum...

If its legal to use the image of GM Doo wai just to make fun of Him...then I just have to sit back and shut my mouth...if its not legal, then please ask this poster whose post I used as a quote (and his friend's on another new thread) to remove the image of GM Doo Wai from their created image/photos

[goju]

this technique must come in handy when yousmoke but dont have a lighter on you lol

[lungyuil]

goju,
Ofcourse mate. it is one of the many benefits..aswell as ironing your clothes..My sifu can iron his shirt in a few seconds...he creates so much heat, he puts on his shirt and gets it wrinkle free.

[Scott R. Brown]

Well, here is the thing lungyuil,

In all seriousness:

If you and anyone else wants to waste their time doing Chi Kung exercises and pretend they are special and can iron their clothes with their hands and heal people and cause internal bleeding just by looking cross-eyed at people, good for you and them.

But to think that intelligent people will accept such wild claims and not treat them with ridicule is a bit naïve.

From a strictly spiritual/philosophical perspective, I will share two anecdotes:


There were two samurai who were friends from childhood. In there young adulthood, they decided to travel separately testing and improving their skills. They agreed to meet at an appointed time and place in a number of years for the purpose of sharing what they had learned with each other.

At the appointed time and place they met. While they were walking along a canal one of the friends decided to demonstrate his level of skill by jumping across the canal in one leap. The leap was quite a feat! However, the other samurai merely walked to a nearby ferry and paid a few coins to be taken across the canal.

What one man trained for years to accomplish, the other could accomplish with little inconvenience thus leaving him more time to train and learn more relevant skills!

Anyone can buy an iron to iron their clothes! Very few of us have any need to kill others with a touch and even fewer can demonstrate an ability to do so. The same thing goes for healing!

As an aside, even Christ said it is not I, but your faith in God that has healed you! That means the person basically does it their self!

__________________________________________________ _


There was a well known Ch’an Master named Huang Po. On one occasion while journeying to Mount T’ien T’ai he met another monk with whom he had presently gained quite an affinity, so the two traveled together.

At some point their way was barred by a raging mountain stream. As they paused at the shore of the stream, the companion deferred to Master Huang Po insisting that he cross first, Master Huang Po insisted, “No, you go first!” Whereupon the companion took off his straw hat and floated across the stream while perched atop it.

Master Huang Po exclaimed to himself, “I have allowed such a fellow to accompany me! I should have slain him with a blow of my staff!”

The point being that the companion was showing off the supra-normal powers he had attained through his practice! These types of displays are considered “attachment to form” and reveal a person of limited understanding; a person still transfixed by illusion.

_________________________________________________

So, once again, you may believe you are learning something special. But others consider it a waste of time. Your enthusiasm for wanting to learn such useless material is more a reflection of your own naïveté and ignorance rather than a reflection of wisdom.

The whole tone of the advertisement reeks of "This is special stuff! DO YOU want to be SPECIAL TOO? Then send me your money and I will teach you this rare, special and secret BS!"

On the other hand, perhaps you and your instructor are right and others are wrong. In which case it is incumbent upon you and he to demonstrate the usefulness of such skills and provide proof of the described benefits, benefits that cannot be acquired through other easier and cheaper means.

Otherwise all you have done is create another form of Hairy Palm Chi Kung!

[Lokhopkuen]

Am asking the admins and moderators of this forum...

If its legal to use the image of GM Doo wai just to make fun of Him...then I just have to sit back and shut my mouth...if its not legal, then please ask this poster whose post I used as a quote (and his friend's on another new thread) to remove the image of GM Doo Wai from their created image/photos

With all due respect sir that video speaks for it's self. I like to give anyone the benefit of the doubt.

But that is:

Garbage.

Pure.

Simple.

Please don't try to justify that as anything other than made up nonsense.

[Lokhopkuen]

Its a voluntary condition, anyone for water sports ?
:D

Too much northern lights, huh?:D

[lungyuil]

Scott,
If it is no skin off your nose what I do and waste my time with..You sure as hell spend alot of time writing posts to prove your so called point..

HAHAHAHAHA... Why is it such a big deal as to why i learn things..You say i am naive and ignorant, I could also say the same about you..You don't know me.

Once again, prove what....No matter what, you all think it is BS so why bother. I am happy with my training as i hope you are with yours.

[lungyuil]

This is a message from sifu Garry Hearfield....

LMAO You guys are still at it talking **** about people you have no idea about that is pretty sad indeed.

For scott,

You are making assumptions on what is on my webpage about what YOU believe I’m doing, which again you have no idea. Healing can be done with person to person or not. This is of course faith and part healing energy of both the person receiving and the person applying. I haven’t even said what the healing involves or what prices for the DVDs are, to which you are saying there are easier and cheaper ways. Again you are making assumptions!!

This is just another Iron Palm method like any decent iron palm. It has some type of qi Kung and meditations as well external exercises for balancing the body. The name of the system may sound exaggerated but don’t get caught on names it’s just a name of a system of kung fu like lama or white eyebrow, mantis, eagle, Taiji all names that mean nothing but a metaphor for its methods.

I am not claiming magical powers, it has healing energy similar to reiki and other hand healing systems, massage and herbs just like other Chinese or asian healing arts.

You can judge me as much as you like but you still have no idea what the system is about, you just think you do. Just because it isn’t something you know you all seem to dismiss things straight away, sadly if it’s not your sifu’s system it’s no good.

I agree with some of the demos, I am also not happy with it but that’s how it is and there is nothing you can do about it. The person did it, added it and he has to deal with the criticism from a bad performance out there. No matter what someone does, whether good or bad, people won’t be happy!

You are a sad bunch of people attacking for the sake of your ego...

Garry

[David Jamieson]

*snip*

You are a sad bunch of people attacking for the sake of your ego...

Garry


Odd that you see it in others but not yourself..

[Scott R. Brown]

Scott,
If it is no skin off your nose what I do and waste my time with..You sure as hell spend alot of time writing posts to prove your so called point..

HAHAHAHAHA... Why is it such a big deal as to why i learn things..You say i am naive and ignorant, I could also say the same about you..You don't know me.

Once again, prove what....No matter what, you all think it is BS so why bother. I am happy with my training as i hope you are with yours.

I have made one post explaining in greater detail why you and your instructor are being ridiculed. I did it for your benefit in order to explain, at least one reason, this is being done. The rest of my posts were humor, albeit humorous ridicule!

If you choose to re-interpret that as "alot of time writing posts to prove your [my] point.." than you are only demonstrating your ignorance, which is obvious to many people already!

I don't need to know you in order to determine you are ignorant. You are the one who posted the website advertising Chi Kung Magic, not me! The content of the web-advertisement, which you apparently accept as "a really good deal", was enough to demonstrate your ignorance loud and clear!

I am glad you are happy with your training, and I don't care whether you practice hocus pocus or not, but just because you like it does not mean it is not fantasy. Hey some people dress up as super-heroes, if you want to pretend you are a Taoist magician, go for it! But then it should be expected that you will be laughed at and made fun of by others!

If Garry thinks the intent of his website is misunderstood, then I would recommend he stop using common "snake oil salesmen" techniques to advertise his snake oil!

[TenTigers]

I am still interested in Dale's experience with this.
as far as the palm training goes, percentage breath and packing is standard in Hakka based systems. The hei-gung is pretty standard as well, it's just that he "sells" so many variations on the same thing, which detracts from the legitamacy-along with his performance of weapon and empty hand sets.

[lkfmdc]

This is a message from sifu Garry Hearfield....



LMFAO... you put up Gary as if his support is something positive? :rolleyes:

He's been BANNED FOR LIFE from this forum for acting like a complete twit

And should we revisit his calls to LPS's student, or should we POST THEM, they were recorded if I remember correctly :D

As for the fake doctor, look up "fair use" and then please please please please try to sue someone for using Doo Wai's picture

WHAT YOU SHOULD REALLY BE CONCERNED ABOUT IS THE VIDEO OF DOO WAI DOING GIM. THAT DOES MORE DAMAGE TO YOUR SYSTEM THAN ANYTHING ELSE AND THE FUN THING IS THAT YOU GUYS PUT IT UP YOURSELVES! :eek:

[taai gihk yahn]

Waitasec - you mean the guy teaching this is crazy "eat a slice of lama piepiepie" Gary?

Oh yeah, total credibility there!:rolleyes:

[Scott R. Brown]

This must be insider New Yorker info huh?

[lkfmdc]

This must be insider New Yorker info huh?

were you not here for the debacle which resulted in Gary being banned for life?

like a few other trolls here, Gary couldn't keep up with a discussion and seriously wanting for fact and logic he resorted to his "wits"

Gary's single "wit" seemed to be to realize that Lama Pai sounded sort of like the word "pie" to which he responded with about a thousands posts about eating pie

You know Gene, he gave the half-wit ample chance and warning but Gary couldnt' help his compulsive little self. He got banned for life.

Until Kwaichang's little racist rants and now lame threats about IRS audits, Gary was the most spectacular mental break down and most embarassing Kung Fu forum episode of all time

But I bet Kwaichang is in the running to replace him :D

[Scott R. Brown]

Hmmm I must have slept through that one. Of course I did spend many years below the fold too, rarely venturing this far north LOL, so perhaps that was when it occurred.

[lkfmdc]

thank g'd for "fair use" and thank g'd that Doo Wai leaves us with so many images that are just ripe for picking :D

[taai gihk yahn]

thank g'd for "fair use" and thank g'd that Doo Wai leaves us with so many images that are just ripe for picking :D

the sad thing is that, you didn't have to photoshop the hat!

[lkfmdc]

the sad thing is that, you didn't have to photoshop the hat!

roger that! :D

[Dr.Harut]

David Ross...come fly to Beirut to see if am a fake Dr or not.

I even can give my phone number ...but I don't like to hear profanities on phone as you or one of your friends did.

[taai gihk yahn]

David Ross...come fly to Beirut to see if am a fake Dr or not.

so what kind of a "doctor" are you, then?

[lkfmdc]

David Ross...come fly to Beirut to see if am a fake Dr or not.

I even can give my phone number ...but I don't like to hear profanities on phone as you or one of your friends did.

In the past, I asked you questions that ANY doctor would be able and WILLING to answer and you avoided all of them without exception..

How are you going to prove you're a real doctor? Bill my insurance a ridiculous amount for an office visit? :D

More "fair use" (and honestly, it is SO EASY)

[lkfmdc]

so what kind of a "doctor" are you, then?

I can picture it now, http://farm1.static.flickr.com/20/73033585_486ab36ce2.jpg?v=0

[lkfmdc]

so what kind of a "doctor" are you, then?

and


In the past, I asked you questions that ANY doctor would be able and WILLING to answer and you avoided all of them without exception..

How are you going to prove you're a real doctor? Bill my insurance a ridiculous amount for an office visit? :D



"and like that, he was gone".....

funny how as soon as we ask the "hard questions' he disappears

[Dr.Harut]

The question was not from you...the question was from your physiotherapist friend...even if you are a Dr's son...you are far from medical knowledge.

As I said....come fly to Beirut and see what kind of Dr I am..may be I offer you a cup of coffee and we settle our "issues"..if there are any "issues".

[lkfmdc]

you are far from medical knowledge.



and apparently you are "far from speaking English correctly" :D

Is it really so hard to say what field you specialize in , where you got your training, what year and what institution you now affiliate with?

Oh, but we're not doctors so we wouldn't understand those answers, right? :rolleyes:

[taai gihk yahn]

As I said....come fly to Beirut and see what kind of Dr I am..may be I offer you a cup of coffee and we settle our "issues"..if there are any "issues".

I don't need to fly to Beirut for you to answer a simple question as to what sub-specialty you are;

[Dr.Harut]

English is my third language....and am good at it.

You want to know my CV?...ok...graduated in 1999, did my specialization in Beirut, then started to work on my own in my own office... now am preparing my immigration papers to come to US.

Now lets see your CV.

[taai gihk yahn]

English is my third language....and am good at it.

You want to know my CV?...ok...graduated in 1999, did my internship in Beirut, then started to work on my own in my own office... now am preparing my immigration papers to come to US.
you still didn't answer the question: what sub-specialty do you practice? let me help you out w/some likely choices: internal medicine? neurology? PM&R? family practice?



Now lets see your CV.
why? what do you want to know specifically?

[taai gihk yahn]

oh, BTW, do you plan to practice medicine in the US? good luck w/that...do you have any idea what you are going to have to go through (I hope you have a lot of $ lying around for USMLE Parts 1 -3, the TOEFL and the CSA; and dealing with ECFMG - good luck w/the instruction booklet there; and then going through the Match as a FMG - whooee: hope you like working in the inner city or rural emptiness)

[Dr.Harut]

Seems you forgot....recall your memory...I have my USMLE step 1 and CK part of step 2....remains the CS part which will attend it when come to US.

Rural emptiness? that means will be close to you yeah?

What is your CV?...shy to tell about yourself?

[grasshopper 2.0]

Haha, this has turned into quite a mature thread. Seriously, dr h can easily lie about his credentials anyway, so no matter what he says proves nothing - whether it is the truth or not. There's really no way for any of us to "prove" credentials on a forum ....take things at face value and see if that has any bearing on ur training....or entertainment as the case usually is

[taai gihk yahn]

Seems you forgot....recall your memory...
right, because remembering specifics about your status as a FMG is really topmost on my list of things to do...:rolleyes:


I have my USMLE step 1 and CK part of step 2....remains the CS part which will attend it when come to US.
and then there's ECFMG cert. and the Match - so much to look forward to!


Rural emptiness? that means will be close to you yeah?
thankfully, not


What is your CV?...shy to tell about yourself?
no - but it's varied, so if you can tell me what you want to know about specifically, that would avoid the need for me to post excessively on things you are not interested in

and you still didn't answer my question about your specific area of specialization; why can't you seem to do that?

[Dr.Harut]

Haha, this has turned into quite a mature thread. Seriously, dr h can easily lie about his credentials anyway, so no matter what he says proves nothing - whether it is the truth or not. There's really no way for any of us to "prove" credentials on a forum ....take things at face value and see if that has any bearing on ur training....or entertainment as the case usually is

I agree...this is a forum and everyone can lie...thats why I was very clear telling them to come to Beirut and see my credentials by their own eyes...if they are so much interested.

[Dr.Harut]

right, because remembering specifics about your status as a FMG is really topmost on my list of things to do...:rolleyes:


and then there's ECFMG cert. and the Match - so much to look forward to!


thankfully, not


no - but it's varied, so if you can tell me what you want to know about specifically, that would avoid the need for me to post excessively on things you are not interested in

and you still didn't answer my question about your specific area of specialization; why can't you seem to do that?

If my status is not the topmost of your list of things to do...then why you're bothering yourself with so much posts about me?..this is a martial art forum..not a medical licensing forum.

As for specialty...Family Medicine

Again avoiding to tell about yourself? start from your real name...and on

[taai gihk yahn]

If my status is not the topmost of your list of things to do...then why you're bothering yourself with so much posts about me?..this is a martial art forum..not a medical licensing forum.
right - but since we are going to be discussing Burning Palm in some detail, and because you will doubtless weigh-in with your "professional" opinion, it's nice to know what we are dealing with credentials-wise;


As for specialty...Family Medicine
there, was that so hard? ok, so you are FP then - that would explain your predisposition for "alternative" stuff; well, you should have no trouble finding a match - it's where most FMG's end up anyway if they want categorical as opposed to preliminary - at least you didn't waste a bunch of years doing surgery or OBGYN; of course, over here, you will find lots of people into "hands-on healing", so you can probably have a nice "niche" practice at some point - if you are foreign and speak French and are reasonably good-looking, you will have a line of middle-aged housewives with fibromyalgia lined up outside your door in no time...

in fact, we already have one patient lined up for you already (http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=949569&postcount=40)

if he seems familiar, it may be because your GM Doo has had him over for a little chat (http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5353&d=1248571462)


Again avoiding to tell about yourself? start from your real name...and on
no, I am not; real name is Chris Jurak, MS, PT; what else do you want to know (again, please try to be specific, such as I have been)?

also, where is your office in Beirut located?

[lkfmdc]

English is my third language....and am good at it.

You want to know my CV?...ok...graduated in 1999, did my specialization in Beirut, then started to work on my own in my own office... now am preparing my immigration papers to come to US.

Now lets see your CV.

From WHERE did you graudate. "Beirut" is a bit vague, does the institution have a name? :rolleyes:

WHAT institution did you do your specializaiton in?
WHAT specialization?

It's pretty simple, you won't answer because you are a LIAR.. come on, we figured out like over a year ago you aren't in Beirut... give it up already...

[kwaichang]

Lk is a master of the Burning Palm system that friction he generates with , well you know, that is what we are talking about right. KC

[lkfmdc]

LMFAO at the guy who claims he has everyone on "ignore" and keeps posting responses :rolleyes:

Let's see, master of fake system with yanked license and questions about what he did with kids agreeing with fake doctor who also does fake system

:rolleyes:

[kwaichang]

Dr Harut dont waste your time with LK or Taai or Goju they are considered a joke here in America. KC

[TenTigers]

I would love to be an OBGYN and do "Hands on healing."
what's wrong with that?:p

[kwaichang]

Look up Kam Yuen and healing arts , interesting approach KC

[taai gihk yahn]

I would love to be an OBGYN and do "Hands on healing."
what's wrong with that?:p

nothing; my wife does it daily, incorporating her French Osteopathic training and her yoga practice (Iyengar) into her clinical / surgical practice - kewl, huh?

[kwaichang]

The student of LK, Taai in the burning palm arts is on line glad to have you joining LK KC

[Dr.Harut]

Hey David Ross..am not in Beirut?...lets bet...you apply for an entry visa for Beirut,Lebanon...and just let me know your arrival and I'll personally come and pick you up from the airport...don't worry...the country is safe... we got over a million tourists these past two months and numbers of tourists are climbing.

And for sure I'll win the bet.

I tell you come to Beirut or if you are so afraid from whats called in your dictionary as "3rd world" you can send someone whom you trust and see my credentials by themselves.

In my opinion, Mr Ross is doubting himself as martial artist..thats why he is doubting others too...Mr Ross, am not even slightly interested neither in your martial arts trainings nor in your business.

Now lets go back to your close friend's discussion....what do you want to discuss concerning what is called "burning palm"?

[lkfmdc]

Hey David Ross..am not in Beirut?...lets bet...you apply for an entry visa for Beirut,Lebanon...and just let me know your arrival and I'll personally come and pick you up from the airport.



Actually, I am in Uganda, why don't you get your papers in order, fly here and I"ll pick you up, don't worry :rolleyes:

[taai gihk yahn]

Now lets go back to your close friend's discussion....what do you want to discuss concerning what is called "burning palm"?
you'll know when I post about it

so, you don't want to know anything more specific about my professional practice? or are you thinking about specific questions to ask? seriously, because otherwise, I can just ramble on and on about my clinical experience over the past 15 years, and you might not be interested in most of it; so again, please ask me specific questions, and I will answer them; I'll start you off, even: I graduated in 1995 with an MS in PT from Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons, and have worked in pediatrics and orthopedics primarily, with an emphasis on osteopathic manual approach and integration of qigong w/more more typical therapeutic exercise; I can get into other things if you want...

and again, where in Beirut is your office located? as in the specific address

BTW, when you come to the states, are you planning on living in New York, or elsewhere?

[lkfmdc]

and again, where in Beirut is your office located? as in the specific address



he won't tell you, because he isn't in Beirut...

He shut up back when I told him the coach of the Lebanese Sanshou team that came to the USKBA championsips was in Beirut .... I asked him for something innocent, like the CROSS STREET nearest his office, just "the corner of so and so and that street" and he kept silent and tried to change the subject

His ISP originates in the US...

[Dr.Harut]

You are the one telling that you want to discuss what is called "burning palm"...well, you say, you're involved in qigong....describe it....is it good for health or not? can a person who had good training in qigong help others through qigong?...Am not interested in your clinical cases.


Ross:
The Lebanese Sanshou team's coach came to USA?...well then...this means you have a person who lives in Beirut and can see my credentials....so you can PM me his phone number (mobile number is better) and email him that he will get a call from me, will invite him to my office. Just have one request: if he tells you that am licensed physician...will you shut your mouth about my medicine degree?..you can tell the guy that am Armenian and live in Armenian region...for sure he should know the name of the region.

[lkfmdc]

Ross:
The Lebanese Sanshou team's coach came to USA?...well then...this means you have a person who lives in Beirut and can see my credentials....so you can PM me his phone number



if you are a doctor and have an office, just POST THE ADDRESS HERE and he can contact you.... pretty simple huh? Why play the games :rolleyes:

[taai gihk yahn]

You are the one telling that you want to discuss what is called "burning palm"...
I do - there are some specific claims on Gary's advert that he needs to either substantiate or be called on; when I have some time, I will enumerate them



well, you say, you're involved in qigong....describe it....is it good for health or not? can a person who had good training in qigong help others through qigong?
not what I am interested in discussing per se, and it's sort of fruitless anyhow, because "qigong" is a very non-specific term - there are many different kinds, and also, unlike meds, the person "distributing" the "medicine" has a significant impact on it's efficacy (meaning operator skill is important on a more ongoing basis, in a sense); frankly, for some people, walking 20 min. would be better than some of the qigong out there

here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vufA-8rw_M0&feature=related) is an example of my teacher, to give you an idea of the "flavor" of what we do

..
.Am not interested in your clinical cases.
yeah, why would you be, I'm just a little PT:rolleyes:



Ross:
The Lebanese Sanshou team's coach came to USA?...well then...this means you have a person who lives in Beirut and can see my credentials....so you can PM me his phone number (mobile number is better) and email him that he will get a call from me, will invite him to my office. Just have one request: if he tells you that am licensed physician...will you shut your mouth about my medicine degree?..you can tell the guy that am Armenian and live in Armenian region...for sure he should know the name of the region.

how about an address? no phone, just an address; the same one you provide to any prospective patient;

[lkfmdc]

how about an address? no phone, just an address; the same one you provide to any prospective patient;

but you see, that is simple, direct and logical

he wants to play games, because clearly he is NOT a doctor in Beirut :rolleyes:

[Dr.Harut]

Ross:

I am a licensed physician....just email your friend and I'll call him and let him see me and my credentials in my own office.

I don't trust you..otherwise I'd PM you my phone number and my address...just email your Lebanese friend.

Chris:

I don't have any intention to insult you...am not counting you little PT...but we are not friends...both you and Ross are the ones who rush on us to do insults...thats why am not interested neither in your practice nor in your trainings, I asked about qigong just to know your opinion about it.

[taai gihk yahn]

I don't have any intention to insult you...am not counting you little PT...but we are not friends...
:eek::eek::eek::eek:

:(...

:rolleyes:



both you and Ross are the ones who rush on us to do insults...
the fact that the head of your system is a certified loon who posts ridiculous things on the internet notwithstanding...


thats why am not interested neither in your practice nor in your trainings,
and that's why I didn't want to go into a whole description of what I do, hello...


I asked about qigong just to know your opinion about it.
and now knowing it...?

anyway, I guess you won't be providing an address of your office? ok, well, let's see if we can make do with what we already know about you, give me a few days...

[lkfmdc]

I am a licensed physician....



so you keep CLAIMING, we are asking you to back it up :rolleyes:




I don't trust you..otherwise I'd PM you my phone number and my address...



You have a public practice but are afraid someone in the US might get teh info for what reason? My link to my school sits here everyday... the only reason to hide the info is because you have something to hide

PS: re-read your history, no one said anything to you until your senile old "master" started talking badly about my late teacher

[taai gihk yahn]

You have a public practice but are afraid someone in the US might get teh info for what reason? My link to my school sits here everyday... the only reason to hide the info is because you have something to hide
well, that's ok - when (if) he gets around to applying for licensure in the US, he'll be easily trackable, we can certainly keep tabs on him, and alert Quackwatch (http://www.quackwatch.com/) if he starts in w/his Fraudulent Palm schtick...actually, I think I will pass on Gary's advert to them as well...



PS: re-read your history, no one said anything to you until your senile old "master" started talking badly about my late teacher
yeah, really short memory there...

[Dr.Harut]

so you keep CLAIMING, we are asking you to back it up :rolleyes:



You have a public practice but are afraid someone in the US might get teh info for what reason? My link to my school sits here everyday... the only reason to hide the info is because you have something to hide

PS: re-read your history, no one said anything to you until your senile old "master" started talking badly about my late teacher

I don't have anything to hide...told you ...email your friend and he will see by his own eyes that am licensed physician.

You were the ones who called us another system, which we are not...talking badly about your teacher was wrong, and we apologized for it...but seems you hold the grudge in you against us till this moment....and its not clear for me, why you still call our teacher senile old while we have apologized about your teacher?

As I've said earlier....am not interested neither in your martial arts training, nor in your business, nor in your schools.

[goju]

I don't have anything to hide...told you ...email your friend and he will see by his own eyes that am licensed physician.

You were the ones who called us another system, which we are not...talking badly about your teacher was wrong, and we apologized for it...but seems you hold the grudge in you against us till this moment....and its not clear for me, why you still call our teacher senile old while we have apologized about your teacher?

As I've said earlier....am not interested neither in your martial arts training, nor in your business, nor in your schools.
oh cmon we were just planning on ransacking your office tieing you up and shooting a staple gun at you lol

[lkfmdc]

Why do we still "hold a grudge"?

First of all, one of our training brothers mentioned a FACT, ie that our late teacher taught a CHOY LAY FUT form called "white tiger" - the Doo Wai loser patrol acted like you guys own all rights to the f-in name :rolleyes:

Then your senile wind bag teacher gets on and insults our late teacher. I have NO DOUBT in my mind that when Chan Tai-San was alive he would have beat the living tar out of Doo Wai and made him cry like a school girl.

The lunatics on your sad excuse for a board went on for months, pretending to be me, Chris and Mike... it's f-in amazing to see you guys talk to yourselves for months :eek:

Really, you should (1) keep the old man off the internet, he's an embarassment and (2) not talk trash about people who might show up and call you on your stupid crap.....

It's also amazing that the only way Doo Wai seemed to have a "change of heart" was when I called him directly and told him if he continued I'd show up to have a "heart to heart" face to face with him

So don't act like you're some delicate flower who got trounced on by the big bad Lama Pai crew, YOU STARTED IT

[taai gihk yahn]

oh cmon we were just planning on ransacking your office tieing you up and shooting a staple gun at you lol

shhhhh!.....

[IronWeasel]

but you see, that is simple, direct and logical

he wants to play games, because clearly he is NOT a doctor in Beirut :rolleyes:


Isn't it like 3am in Lebanon right now?:confused:

The Dr. seems to be up all night long posting away....

I hope he's not too sleepy to treat his patients.

[Dr.Harut]

Why do we still "hold a grudge"?

First of all, one of our training brothers mentioned a FACT, ie that our late teacher taught a CHOY LAY FUT form called "white tiger" - the Doo Wai loser patrol acted like you guys own all rights to the f-in name :rolleyes:

Then your senile wind bag teacher gets on and insults our late teacher. I have NO DOUBT in my mind that when Chan Tai-San was alive he would have beat the living tar out of Doo Wai and made him cry like a school girl.

The lunatics on your sad excuse for a board went on for months, pretending to be me, Chris and Mike... it's f-in amazing to see you guys talk to yourselves for months :eek:

Really, you should (1) keep the old man off the internet, he's an embarassment and (2) not talk trash about people who might show up and call you on your stupid crap.....

It's also amazing that the only way Doo Wai seemed to have a "change of heart" was when I called him directly and told him if he continued I'd show up to have a "heart to heart" face to face with him

So don't act like you're some delicate flower who got trounced on by the big bad Lama Pai crew, YOU STARTED IT

Continue holding your grudge till the end of your life...Just email your Lebanese friend....I really pity you Mr Ross.

[Dr.Harut]

Isn't it like 3am in Lebanon right now?:confused:

The Dr. seems to be up all night long posting away....

I hope he's not too sleepy to treat his patients.

Its 3:10 am precisely...just waited so long today because want to see where this will end for today.

[goju]

go to bed!!

[kwaichang]

Dr Harut, Dont waste your time with Ross he is a teacher?? of MMA in NY has little or no skill from what I have observed on his clips he has posted. And is eat up with envy. You are wasting your time. He wont call or anyof that stuff. KC

[goju]

Dr Harut, Dont waste your time with Ross he is a teacher?? of MMA in NY has little or no skill from what I have observed on his clips he has posted. And is eat up with envy. You are wasting your time. He wont call or anyof that stuff. KC
you cant say some one has no skill yet offer no evidence of your own

sorry old boy fail again
haw hee haw haw hee haw

[Scott R. Brown]

WoW! Another little 7hr nap and no one waited for me again!:p


I don't need to fly to Beirut for you to answer a simple question as to what sub-specialty you are;

He is the Doctor of PAIN!


Lk is a master of the Burning Palm system that friction he generates with , well you know, that is what we are talking about right. KC

Uhh!.....that would be MY system.....it is called Hairy Palm Chi Kung you may recall!

And I haven't licensed him to use it! If he attempts to try it without proper instruction, he could go blind!:eek:.... i mean.....:cool:!

[taai gihk yahn]

Isn't it like 3am in Lebanon right now?:confused:

The Dr. seems to be up all night long posting away....

I hope he's not too sleepy to treat his patients.

he'd Family Practice - it's not like you need to be awake to do that most of the time anyway...:eek::eek::eek:

[lkfmdc]

LMFAO at both of these clowns

The only thing the "doctor" has over kwaichang is that they actually POST their stuff to view

.....

then again, Kwaichang might be the smarter one, with him we can only imagine how bad he is :D

[taai gihk yahn]

LMFAO at both of these clowns

The only thing the "doctor" has over kwaichang is that they actually POST their stuff to view
I've noticed that SD does tend to go a little Scientology on you whenever anything surfaces of their stuff...BFP and SD - two sides of the same sad, sad coin...

I think some photoshopping of Sin The and Doo Wai meeting to discuss things is in order...


then again, Kwaichang might be the smarter one, with him we can only imagine how bad he is :D

we know he jumps kinda cutsy-like...

[taai gihk yahn]

or at least the next best thing:

so, I've compiled a few quotes from the originally linked-to advert, and would like to take this opportunity to put some questions, in all seriousness, to the original poster, lungyuil, in regards to some of the claims it makes:

1) "Burning Palm System...is also a complete fighting system that develops an Internal Springy Force that can leave an imprint of your hand on your opponents body that can cause trauma and internal bleeding."
please provide evidence that application of this technique specifically causes "internal bleeding" (it used to be "seriously internal bleeding", but I notice that you changed that, LOL); what was the situation under which it was demonstrated that BPS enabled a practitioner to cause internal bleeding by its use? how was this demonstrated to you specifically that this could occurr?

2) The Burning Palm System can create an internal energy that can heal by placing a palm on a person
that is a very broad statement: define "heal"; also, heal what? anything? what documented evidence do you have to provide that BPS has been the causal factor in any single case of healing? and since you are advocating healing, like any modality, it must have indications / contraindications; could you provide a brief list of each? also, as a practitioner of BPS, how would one know when use of this modality was appropriate, and when one ought to refer a patient to a different practitioner - the idea is that if you are proposing to treat the public, then you should know what is the appropriate scope of ones practice - how does the BPS system teach someone to appropriately screen potential clients?

3) at higher levels the practitioner can send healing energy from a distance and also read a person's illlness from placing the hand on, or scanning, the sick patient.
again, what documented evidence do you have that substantiates this claim? in what specific cases has so-called "distance healing" been demonstrated by a BPS practitioner? also, what documented evidence do you have that substantiates that one can "scan" a patient and make a correct diagnosis? and this could be from either a biomedical or a TCM perspective - meaning that your scanning correlates with the diagnosis made by a qualified practitioner of any given system, who arrives at their diagnosis by means previously demonstrated as reliable; or, does BPS use its own system of illness classification / diagnosis? if so, to what degree are its measures relative subjective or objective?

4) Even massage therapists can increase their energy awareness for better treatments with the Burning Palm skill.
this statement suggests that there are massage therapists who have used BPS on their clients, who have reported to them that as a result of this, the treatments were better than those given without use of the skill; is this the case? have you had an LMT's report this (otherwise, it's pure conjecture)?

I am asking these questions, in full seriousness, because you are making claims as to the efficacy of BPS, claims that training it gives the individual specific skills; logically, it follows that you have direct experience of this, and, more importantly, that these skills are documented and independently verifiable, since you are expecting the general public to believe what you are telling them - after all, you ARE marketing a product, and truth in advertising is something that the consumer has a right to expect; moreover, you are claiming health benefits not only for the practitioner, but for his / her clients / patients, meaning that you are claiming clinical efficacy for BPS - ethically, it is your duty to provide reliable and valid evidence as to the truth of your claims of diagnosis and healing;

thank you in advance for your time and attention; BTW, if you are unable to answer any of these questions, you may ask Gary to do so, that would be fine;

[TenTigers]

I have heard that the same chi-gung that is used for some versions of iron palm are the same ones used for ch'i-gung healing. Energy is energy, intent is what changes it...well, according to theory. Has any of it been "proven?"
dunno. Ask Randi...and taai Gihk Yan.
I still want to hear what Dale's take on this whole thing is.

[taai gihk yahn]

I have heard that the same chi-gung that is used for some versions of iron palm are the same ones used for ch'i-gung healing. Energy is energy, intent is what changes it...well, according to theory. Has any of it been "proven?"
dunno. Ask Randi...and taai Gihk Yan.
I still want to hear what Dale's take on this whole thing is.

good point - here it is: in my personal experience with the specific qigong I have practiced, I have observed that I can do similar moves with differing intent and get different internal responses (nothing magical, I'm talking physiological responses); alternately, I have seen, in varying systems, similar moves done martially or non-martially, and have observed some similarities in how these change given the context - like the difference between doing palm to trunk percussion when training "iron shirt" versus doing it for purely health-related activity;

as far as proof: when one does something for oneself, I believe that one can suspend the burden of proof insofar as what one might find in an evidence-based study, because ultimately, it's what happens to one subjectively that matters - the issue of reproducibility is really not of particular concern, because one is doing it for oneself; the line, IMPO, is when one starts to advocate generalizability - that is, technique "a" will have the same (or at least reasonably similar) effect across the board, and that it can be reliably reproduced over time; and that suggests that it "works", in the sense that it achieves the outcome it purports to; in the case of qigong, this can be very tricky to ascertain, because of the wide variety of ways of doing even just one move, and also what's important is operator skill: an MD needs skill to decide what drug to give you, when, how often, in what dosage, when to discontinue, etc. - all this requires knowledge; however, the actual physical delivery of the pill is not skill-based; w/qigong or any hands on healing, there is moment-to-moment adjustment going on, and the operator's skill level in this regard is critical; as such, these modalities become highly subjective, not only for the operator, but for the client, and a host of extraneous factors come into play which can impact the pure delivery of the modality; personally, i've done a great deal of experimentation with how to deliver treatment in a way that factors out a lot of the interpersonal stuff, in a way that demonstrates clearly to the patient that what we did worked (it requires a lot of testing / retesting and getting the patient to clearly articulate what they feel / how much they can move before and after, so it's crystal clear in their mind that a given manuever "worked" - but it takes a lot of vigilance, and you have to avoid the trap of feeling too pleased about yourself when you suceed - you have to put it squarely on the patient that they are fundamentally responsible for achieving and maintaining their health, that you as the practitioner should not be important in their mind - this helps to decrease dependancy a great deal; of course, lot's of hands-on "healers" thrive on this co-dependent situation, which is frankly unethical but all too common amongst licensed and unlicensed providers alike...)

anyway, I would like to hear Dale's side as well, but more importantly, from lungyuil...

[Scott R. Brown]

EXACTLY, the practitioner is more of a facilitator than a healer!

What I have a problem with all this is when the practitioner has an emotional need and/or an ego investment in being "A HEALER!"

...and...

...just about any well delivered strike has the potential to cause internal bleeding!

[taai gihk yahn]

EXACTLY, the practitioner is more of a facilitator than a healer!
What I have a problem with all this is when the practitioner has an emotional need and/or an ego investment in being "A HEALER!"
you are 100% correct, - in almost every case I've encountered w/"energy healers", it is that emotional need / ego investment where they completely loose objectivity and get wrapped up in the client / patient; it's the opposite end of the doc who walks into the room, never looks at the patient, treats them like a statistic to be medicated - they are looking for that "moment" where they have some sort of beautiful experience during a "treatment";
my "solution" is to be on the one hand completely present for that patient, but also not emotionally invested - the goal is to, as you say, facilitate their improvement - to me, this is the hallmark of a professional - really, we are no different than plumbers - a lot of the same thing over and over, and every once in a while you get to do something out of the ordinary - but bearing in mind that for each client, those standard things you do are important to them; so, sometimes it's boring, or you are tired, don't want to be there - and it's at these times when ones training comes through, and this approach allows you to be successful even when you're not in top form - you can still be effective;
but yeah, I can't even talk to most of the reiki types anymore - their co-dependency and counter-transference issues are just painfully obvious, and they can't see it to save their lives (I should know - I went through it all myself when I was a newb, but was lucky to find some good teachers who disabused me of that failing - but I actively sought them out, because I knew that there was something wrong w/being totally absorbed the way I was, blurring the lines innappropriately)


...just about any well delivered strike has the potential to cause internal bleeding!
well derrr...

[TenTigers]

reiki gives me a knee-jerk reaction, the same way,"Social worker," or "Feng-Shui practitioner" does. They are so quick to tell you that they are a Reiki Master.
It's a huge turn-off, which is bad, because Reiki, in and of itself is not bad.

[Scott R. Brown]

Yes....i agree....again!

I call the syndrome, "The Search For Significance".

These are generally people that have a need to feel important, but don't want to actually work too hard to get it, as in actually going to medical school!

[taai gihk yahn]

Yes....i agree....again!

I call the syndrome, "The Search For Significance".

These are generally people that have a need to feel important, but don't want to actually work too hard to get it, as in actually going to medical school!

oh crap; you have managed to articulate in a totally straightforward way something that I have never quite found the right way to say - dam you and your
insouciant verbiage!

I would add that, because they can't succeed via the conventions for a given society, they go outside their culture to obtain "expertise" in something that the majority of the society within which they function lacks the means to appropriately evaluate whether or not what they are saying is BS or not (hence all the folks who blithely throw around the concept of "qi" in the "west", who would be laughed at if they tried to get away with it in the "east")

these, BTW, are the folks who typically are the first to dismiss docs as being clueless about, well, anything, really; and sure, there are some bad docs - but the good ones? oh man, if they only knew what goes through these folks minds at a blinding rate when they are faced with certain situations...

[Scott R. Brown]

dam you and your insouciant verbiage!

Now I'm confused!:eek:

What has a good tasting salad to do with it?:confused:


I would add that, because they can't succeed via the conventions for a given society, they go outside their culture to obtain "expertise" in something that the majority of the society within which they function lacks the means to appropriately evaluate whether or not what they are saying is BS or not (hence all the folks who blithely throw around the concept of "qi" in the "west", who would be laughed at if they tried to get away with it in the "east")

these, BTW, are the folks who typically are the first to dismiss docs as being clueless about, well, anything, really; and sure, there are some bad docs - but the good ones? oh man, if they only knew what goes through these folks minds at a blinding rate when they are faced with certain situations...

Yes, less education...less understanding of human anatomy, physiology, microbiology, psychology, and the disease process equals greater "ancient: wisdom which is nothing more than modified shamanism!

----------------
Now playing: Awesome_Town (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/-/track/awesome_town)
via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)

[TenTigers]

bah! humbug! I can scan your aura and feel your imbalances much better than some stupid ol' CAT scan.

[Dr.Harut]

Am back....and its 8:00 pm...and my joyful evening is starting here on this thread...just need some time to finish reading the new posts.

Mr Jurak:..your posts are too long...

[TenTigers]

Mr Jurak:..your posts are too long...

hmmmm...you just may fit in here afterall.....:D

[Dr.Harut]

TT....thanks anyway

[TenTigers]

So Doc-how would you describe the Burning Palm? How does it differ from other versions of Iron Palm? How can it be used for healing?
Also-how many types of palm training are in BFP?

[Dr.Harut]

Ross is calling me clown...for me he is a clown too...still am waiting him to email his friend to get the mobile number of his Lebanese friend.

I'll start from what is called burning palm....I wish Garry doesn't release it..but may be he has his own reasons...he decided to release the dvd...good luck to him.

I will not go defensive about myself...as Jurak is intending to put me in "bad docs" catagory...he doesn't know me personally so all he says are pure assumptions.

Now that Ross posted about the grudge...thats good...its about the name and the talking bad about his teacher...our apology was based on the fact that his teacher is no longer on this world and it was very wrong to talk bad about people who are not alive...lets come back to the name....the name "Bak Fu" was named by Bak Fu Pai's first master' Fung Doe Duk..who was the creator of the system ( I might reveal the proof someday, because that recording will not go away and all the world can check it) and passed the whole system to a Family who were already well known Family in their healing knowledge since 690 AD..and that Family happens to be Doo Family and our Teacher is direct descendent ...so yes Mr Ross...the name is owned by Doo Family....do not misunderstand me .,..am not against if a form in a system is called white tiger.

Lets return back...since these issues are the main causes of the grudge..this means...its not martial arts material related...and all of us know that if an insecure person (Ross is good example)....doesn't know chi gung...he will definitely discredit all the internal trainings...plus if they don't know herbs ...then herbal knowledge is absurd thing too...this alone makes him look like a clown...not me

[TenTigers]

Ross is calling me clown...for me he is a clown too...still am waiting him to email his friend to get the mobile number of his Lebanese friend.

I'll start from what is called burning palm....I wish Garry doesn't release it..but may be he has his own reasons...he decided to release the dvd...good luck to him.

I will not go defensive about myself...as Jurak is intending to put me in "bad docs" catagory...he doesn't know me personally so all he says are pure assumptions.

Now that Ross posted about the grudge...thats good...its about the name and the talking bad about his teacher...our apology was based on the fact that his teacher is no longer on this world and it was very wrong to talk bad about people who are not alive...lets come back to the name....the name "Bak Fu" was named by Bak Fu Pai's first master' Fung Doe Duk..who was the creator of the system ( I might reveal the proof someday, because that recording will not go away and all the world can check it) and passed the whole system to a Family who were already well known Family in their healing knowledge since 690 AD..and that Family happens to be Doo Family and our Teacher is direct descendent ...so yes Mr Ross...the name is owned by Doo Family....do not misunderstand me .,..am not against if a form in a system is called white tiger.

Lets return back...since these issues are the main causes of the grudge..this means...its not martial arts material related...and all of us know that if an insecure person (Ross is good example)....doesn't know chi gung...he will definitely discredit all the internal trainings...plus if they don't know herbs ...then herbal knowledge is absurd thing too...this alone makes him look like a clown...not me

yeah. why don't you just ignore all that ****. Ok, so it's white tiger system. Whatever. Go on about the palms...

[lkfmdc]

The first most obvious observation, good luck claiming you own the name "white tiger".. you'll have your hands full enough in just the United States, and we already know what happened in CHINA! :rolleyes:

Second, if what you do is real, why haven't you collect the million dollars from James Randi? I know! I Know! you aren't interested in money (unless it comes from selling video tapes apparently)

:rolleyes:

[Dr.Harut]

So Doc-how would you describe the Burning Palm? How does it differ from other versions of Iron Palm? How can it be used for healing?
Also-how many types of palm training are in BFP?

TT, even if I am sure you count us fake fraud or whatever in the negative way, but I'll try to answer your questions

I personally don't wish the release of burning palm or any Bak Fu Pai Chi Gung...its not easy task for a person who is not familiar in doing breath percenage control sequance which we do in the begining of each Bak Fu Pai meditation...each meditation has its own breath percentage control sequance....or one set of meditations can have the same breathing seqaunce for all the meditations of that specific set.

As all Bak Fu Pai chi gung meditations ( am speaking about Bak Fu Pai chi gung because I don't have any idea about other internal arts)..they will make a person healthier...they can project their energy to other people.... when I examine my patients, some of them feel wave like surges going into their bodies...some feel pleasent warmth..and yet am not doing any healing in my practice...just examining patients..which its legal for a physician to examine a patient using his hands also not the stethoscope only.

From what I have came across in Bak Fu Pai...a person should start from the basic chi gung meditation/exercises....burning palm is very advanced and it will take time to achieve it...assuming that the practitionar does the breathing sequance correctly....the energy channels should be open without any blcokage to make this achievment to go amoothly and I am still on my point..it will take time.

As for versions of iron palm?...the first time am hearing such terminology...there are different versions of ging through different sets of meditations with different breathing sequance...these also take time...again provided that the practitionar has good coordination in doing the breathing sequance correctly.

Many are contacting Garry for the releasing of the dvd...when he releases them we will hear from the people after a while...if that reviews will be negative..you'll celebrate sky high..if that reviews turn to be positive...then Garry will celebrate sky high...

As for healing through chi gung...yes its very possible...although I do not use it in my practice...as some here assume that I do..without even knowing me ...

[Dr.Harut]

yeah. why don't you just ignore all that ****. Ok, so it's white tiger system. Whatever. Go on about the palms...

TT...am no insulting you...I need time to write a post...be patient

[Dr.Harut]

brb in 2 hrs or less

[Yao Sing]

Anyway, The energy we get from the meds and the conditioning from the training is all real, you can't make up the results..

And the secret is out!!! Now it makes sense where Dr. Haircut comes into the picture, that is unless Dr. Haircut is really Doo Wai himself as many suspect.

[Yao Sing]

BTW, anyone else notice that he uses the Gim more like a hacking weapon rather than a precision instrument?

It looks more like a Broadsword set than a Gim set.

[TenTigers]

from what I have seen of the "meds," they are all very slight differences in percentage breathing and packing. I would venture to say that they are so slight that it would not make one bit of difference if you did 80,60,30, 10, 0r 80, 50, 20, 5. What are your experiences with this?

I would not rejoice. I was dissapointed in what was given to me, but then again, I went through Lacy, although he was representing Doo Wai at the time.
Personally, I was dissapointed in both of them. Neither of them performed well, although DW's bak mei forms were ok, they lacked clarity in presenting them. Poor quality on DW's back porch, getting tangled up in his mike wires, having coughing fits, etc, and not editing that stuff out was as bad as Lacy not editing out his walking back and forth to turn the camera on and off, showing old video of some of the worst crap I've ever seen. And DW wasting forty five minutes of tape trying to sell his system to me.
THAT is what I didn't like.
Sushi is bait, presentation is everything.

I am hoping his info is good, and I believe Garry will present it in a much more professional manner when he releases his videos.

[TenTigers]

yeah, I never cared for using the term, "Meds," in reference to ch'i-gung meditations.
(I also hate when people use the terms,"The Fu," or "Chunners.")

[Yao Sing]

Huh?????????

[TenTigers]

Huh?????????

what?????????

[Yao Sing]

Oh, meditations, not medications. Although it would seem some altered state of reality may be involved.

At least the definition of "good" is certainly different amongst the parties involved in the conversation.

[TenTigers]

when I haven't been consistant with my meditation, I don't say, "I've been off my meds."
although, now that you mention it, it IS quite funny. Perhaps I'll start.

[taai gihk yahn]

Mr Jurak:..your posts are too long...
either you are channeling Polonius, or you have a limited attention span; sorry to say though, to clearly delineate one's perspective and avoid ambiguity does sometimes take a bit more time than just posting out of knee-jerk responses; I am surprised that coming from a physician, you complain they are too long - I am assuming you read medical texts of greater length, and my approach is essentially evidence-based, so I don't get what the difficulty is, especially when I am trying to be objective, and not get personal...

anyway, whatever, if you think they are too long, hey, don't read them; but anyone making / supporting claims such as made by Gary & Co. should be up to answering someone who challenges them to support those claims - or do you think that the general public should accept on faith what claims are made? if so, end of discussion, I guess; if not, then please feel free to answer the questions that I have asked;


I will not go defensive about myself...as Jurak is intending to put me in "bad docs" catagory...he doesn't know me personally so all he says are pure assumptions.
it's not assumptions - you are apparently supporting the use of a therapy that has not one bit of evidence-based support - that goes very much against the standard of practice of medicine; it may not make you a "bad" doctor, but it calls your professional judgement into question to say the least...if I am incorrect, please answer the questions I asked and demonstrate my error


the name "Bak Fu" was named by Bak Fu Pai's first master' Fung Doe Duk..who was the creator of the system ( I might reveal the proof someday, because that recording will not go away and all the world can check it) and passed the whole system to a Family who were already well known Family in their healing knowledge since 690 AD..and that Family happens to be Doo Family and our Teacher is direct descendent ...so yes Mr Ross...the name is owned by Doo Family
um, do you actually know where the concept of "White Tiger" comes from, and what it actually refers to? sorry, the Doo family can't own what was around as part of Chinese culture long before them (hint: its usage predates 690 AD by at least a millennia and a half, if not more)


TT, even if I am sure you count us fake fraud or whatever in the negative way, but I'll try to answer your questions
why won't you answer mine as well?


As all Bak Fu Pai chi gung meditations ( am speaking about Bak Fu Pai chi gung because I don't have any idea about other internal arts)..they will make a person healthier...they can project their energy to other people....when I examine my patients, some of them feel wave like surges going into their bodies...some feel pleasent warmth..and yet am not doing any healing in my practice...just examining patients..which its legal for a physician to examine a patient using his hands also not the stethoscope only.
I may be wrong, but based on your post above, you seem to understand very little about transference, entrainment, suggestion etc. if you believe these things to be objective and / or that they actually require any sort of extended training to achieve: what you are describing are subjective experiences that occur in many other instances, be it reiki, therapeutic touch, etc. - meaning that your description of "energy" and all that have nothing to do w/BPS training per se, and in fact they can be accomplished after 5 minutes of instruction in "energy projection" (which I have witnessed); so, don't get me wrong - I am not discounting your personal subjective experience, I am just saying there is nothing particular special about what you are describing, so don't give it more credence than it's worth - the fact that people feel something when you are only examining them is indicative that it is a subjective / generalized process that is well within the range what spontaneously occurs between human organisms when they interact with a certain intention; it is "healing", in the sense that it seems to help move the system towards homeostasis, but I wouldn't call it skilled delivery of a therapeutic modality or a form of skilled diagnosis; it's just a normal aspect of human interaction, albeit one that is often discounted as not being "real" by contemporary standards of perception;
probably you will misinterpret this, because it takes the so-called "skill" of BPS and pretty much all other "energy systems" and relegates it to within the range of "normal" human experience, which makes it no longer anything "special" that helps to seperate BPS / energy-worker types out from the rest of the population; meaning they all would have to get over themselves, which isn't going to happen anytime soon, unfortunately;

[Dr.Harut]

Am back, again have to read long post....

[taai gihk yahn]

Am back, again have to read long post....

living in the desert, I can understand why one could accumulate a relatively higher concentration of sand in their undershorts, but quit whining; you don't have to do anything...:rolleyes:

[Dr.Harut]

from what I have seen of the "meds," they are all very slight differences in percentage breathing and packing. I would venture to say that they are so slight that it would not make one bit of difference if you did 80,60,30, 10, 0r 80, 50, 20, 5. What are your experiences with this?

I would not rejoice. I was dissapointed in what was given to me, but then again, I went through Lacy, although he was representing Doo Wai at the time.
Personally, I was dissapointed in both of them. Neither of them performed well, although DW's bak mei forms were ok, they lacked clarity in presenting them. Poor quality on DW's back porch, getting tangled up in his mike wires, having coughing fits, etc, and not editing that stuff out was as bad as Lacy not editing out his walking back and forth to turn the camera on and off, showing old video of some of the worst crap I've ever seen. And DW wasting forty five minutes of tape trying to sell his system to me.
THAT is what I didn't like.
Sushi is bait, presentation is everything.

I am hoping his info is good, and I believe Garry will present it in a much more professional manner when he releases his videos.

TT, yes, they are slight differences, and I get different energy surges with each meditation with different breathing sequance. Thats from my experiance.

As for the other issue the Lacy issue...I don't believe Lacy was representative of Bak Fu Pai...and those videos he selling, are not instructional videos...and Lacy has not trained in Bak Fu Pai by GM Doo Wai. I will not drag myself in this issue, because I'll stand what GM Doo Wai has told us...and you all have negative ideas about GM Doo Wai...so, its better not to discuss this issue.

[Dr.Harut]

living in the desert, I can understand why one could accumulate a relatively higher concentration of sand in their undershorts, but quit whining; you don't have to do anything...:rolleyes:

Now Beirut, Lebanon is desert?..wait let me send a link about Lebanon and see if its desert or not

[TenTigers]

was "Mad Santa" AT ANY TIME a representative of GM Doo Wai, or was he simply a student who passed himself off for years as a rep-not only a rep, but he referred to himself as Jung Shee.
And if he was not a rep, where did he get all his info, including tapes of GM Doo Wai, the jow formulas, etc?
-or perhaps they simply had a falling out afterwards, and the reulting debacle?
I am not instigating, just trying to get the facts straight.

[taai gihk yahn]

Now Beirut, Lebanon is desert?..wait let me send a link about Lebanon and see if its desert or not

so, is it that I need to post in one to two sentences to get you to answer? that can't be it, because you answered TT's questions - of course, that may be because it's easy to answer about one's own personal experience rather than substantiating claims made regarding clinical outcomes...

[lkfmdc]

Now Beirut, Lebanon is desert?..wait let me send a link about Lebanon and see if its desert or not

I personally think you have one of those Lebanese cedars shoved way up your ass

[Dr.Harut]

Jurak...as for the name, yes its from Chinese culture of course.

As for supporting the use of healings unproved by our western medicine technology and science...I agree with you in a way, but that doesn't mean that the healings even if unproved are not true.

As for my subjective experiances...I also wonder...where were they before I started in Bak Fu Pai?...so there is something that has been triggered by the chi gung meditations I do...and these results am getting didn't come overnight.

[Dr.Harut]

Here is the link about Lebanon:

http://www.clementtannouri.com/search/search.php?keyword=Lebanon

[Dr.Harut]

I personally think you have one of those Lebanese cedars shoved way up your ass

May be those cedars shoved yours way up...and you're still not aware of it

[Dr.Harut]

was "Mad Santa" AT ANY TIME a representative of GM Doo Wai, or was he simply a student who passed himself off for years as a rep-not only a rep, but he referred to himself as Jung Shee.
And if he was not a rep, where did he get all his info, including tapes of GM Doo Wai, the jow formulas, etc?
-or perhaps they simply had a falling out afterwards, and the reulting debacle?
I am not instigating, just trying to get the facts straight.

TT...those videos are not instructional...believe or not...the formuylas are wrong...GM Doo Wai never released formulas except for few...and not even much formulas...don't want to get dragged in this issue for the reason I said in the above post.

[lkfmdc]

You're from Beirut and don't understand a reference to the cedars of Lebannon? :confused::rolleyes:

[Dr.Harut]

Jurak, I answered your questions when I answered TT's questions...what other questions are there..may be I missed them...show me the post let me go and read them.

[Dr.Harut]

You're from Beirut and don't understand a reference to the cedars of Lebannon? :confused::rolleyes:

Ross want reference for cedars?...come to beirut...will drive you there...its all 2.5-3hrs drive from the city....you'll enjoy...will offer you a lebanese BBQ too..there are nice rustic restaurants there

[lkfmdc]

Ross want reference for cedars?...come to beirut...will drive you there...its all 2.5-3hrs drive from the city....you'll enjoy...will offer you a lebanese BBQ too..there are nice rustic restaurants there

and then can we go dancing? :eek:

sounds like he's really lonely :D

I just meant a reference to the cedars of Lebannon, if you are from Beirut you SHOULD know the reference

[Dr.Harut]

dancing...seems you like male companions...not interested.

Am lonely?...wow...what an assumption

I gave you a link to see whole Lebanon, not just the cedars...this guy is a good photographer in Beirut.

Plus I don't search online about Lebanon...I did the search just to show Jurak that am not living in desert as he assumed

Plus...did you email your friend?..am still waiting his number

[taai gihk yahn]

Jurak...as for the name, yes its from Chinese culture of course.
ok - and so, what does it refer to specifically in regards to Taoist body schema and medicine? if you guys are doing qigong healing, you would have to know the whole sequence (White Tiger, Green Dragon, Red Phoenix, etc.)


As for supporting the use of healings unproved by our western medicine technology and science...I agree with you in a way, but that doesn't mean that the healings even if unproved are not true.
it doesn't mean that they are either: that perspective, however "open-minded" you think it is, has no place in the world of evidence-based medicine and as such therefore generalized claims cannot be made about BPS's efficacy; meaning that, at this point, it's essentially subjective - which personally, I have no issue with - indeed, I have never had a negative opinion about anecdotal, subjective experience - I actually think it's very valuable and in some cases, the only type of "proof" available - what I DO have an issue with is people who a) don't realize this for what it is; b) generalize and claim objective "proof" based on personal, subjective experience; which is exactly what Gary & Co. are doing when they make blanket statements about BPS being able to "heal with a touch" - that's false advertising and if they were actually licensed professionals, would be unethical and negligent;


As for my subjective experiances...I also wonder...where were they before I started in Bak Fu Pai?...so there is something that has been triggered by the chi gung meditations I do...and these results am getting didn't come overnight.
one possibility is simply that you had never been exposed to that sort of methodology, and when you were, you were told that it was going to take a certain amount of time, so it did: self-fulfilling prophecy; conversely, I have been to seminars where participants were told that it was going to take 5 minutes for them to be able to "project energy", and that's what happened - because you are dealing w/a phenomenon that relies on belief to some degree, that is a factor


Jurak, I answered your questions when I answered TT's questions...what other questions are there..may be I missed them...show me the post let me go and read them.
no, these are the questions I was referring to (but I'm warning you in advance, they are "too long"):
http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=949679&postcount=133

[Reality_Check]

if you are a doctor and have an office, just POST THE ADDRESS HERE and he can contact you.... pretty simple huh? Why play the games :rolleyes:

For those of you who are curious, and have some Google skills:

Dr Harut = Dr. Haroutioun P Aintablian

http://www.myspace.com/drharout

Al Bourj Hospital (address and numbers are publicly available)

Osman road
Bourj Brajneh (Baabda)
Lebanon
Phone : ‎+961 1 474716
Phone : ‎+961 1 474719
Fax : ‎+961 1 474721

[lungyuil]

Hey everyone,
I haven't had the chance to get on the forum till now and wow...

Look, i am not qualified to answer your questions regarding the Burning Palms. I have spoken to my sifu Garry and any answers you require to your legitimate questions, please feel free to contact him on imprintpalm@gmail.com as he is the only person qualified under the Doo family and has the complete knowledge to train it.

Many Thanks
lung

[taai gihk yahn]

Hey everyone,
I haven't had the chance to get on the forum till now and wow...

Look, i am not qualified to answer your questions regarding the Burning Palms. I have spoken to my sifu Garry and any answers you require to your legitimate questions, please feel free to contact him on imprintpalm@gmail.com as he is the only person qualified under the Doo family and has the complete knowledge to train it.

Many Thanks
lung

so you come on hear announcing yourself and your "system", you get all indignant when people goof on you, but yet when simple, straightforward questions asking you to provide documentation for your claims are made, suddenly you are not qualified, and duck the questions, posting your sifu's e-mail? that's pretty lame, even for the tin-foil hat crowd;

and the funny thing is, answering the questions about documented evidence do NOT require "qualifications" - they simply require the ability to post links to or copy/paste the answers that you, as a practitioner of the BPS, should theoretically have - unless you are practicing it in blind faith, believing the claims about "internal bleeding" and "healing" without having ascertained whether these claims can be substantiated;

in the future, it would be better if you didn't take on the role of public mouthpiece, if as soon as someone asks simple, straightforward questions, you run back to your sifu w/your tail between your legs;

and funny how, "Gary" can take the time to answer through you when "defending" BPS in a non-specific, emotionally charged manner, but can't seem to be bothered to do so when legitimate, and easily answered questions are posed; suggesting he doesn't have the answers either; suggesting that he is brokering on exploiting the ignorance of students similar to you for whom logic and reason go out the window when they find something "esoteric" to make them feel like they are doing something special;

Next!

[Dr.Harut]

For those of you who are curious, and have some Google skills:

Dr Harut = Dr. Haroutioun P Aintablian

http://www.myspace.com/drharout

Al Bourj Hospital (address and numbers are publicly available)

Osman road
Bourj Brajneh (Baabda)
Lebanon
Phone : ‎+961 1 474716
Phone : ‎+961 1 474719
Fax : ‎+961 1 474721

Yes I was at that hospital from 2000-2002....from January 2003-present am in my own office.

[taai gihk yahn]

For those of you who are curious, and have some Google skills:

Dr Harut = Dr. Haroutioun P Aintablian

http://www.myspace.com/drharout

Al Bourj Hospital (address and numbers are publicly available)

Osman road
Bourj Brajneh (Baabda)
Lebanon
Phone : ‎+961 1 474716
Phone : ‎+961 1 474719
Fax : ‎+961 1 474721


holy fricoly - OUTED!

nice find RC [doffs hat, nods head]

and now to work on data-mining the myspace page (and oh, there is so MUCH to mine...)

[taai gihk yahn]

LOL!!! - Doo Wai claims to be 48 years old on his Myspace page!!!

maybe in dog years...

http://www.myspace.com/doowai

[taai gihk yahn]

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.ListAll&friendId=89329171



BAK FI PAI CHI GUNG
Category: Sports
In this letter, I want to share with you about the amazing results that myself and some of my patients are seeing from our Bak Fu Pai Chi Gung meditations.
The Bak Fu Pai Chi Gung meditations make the practitioners' lung capacity better, and the tension in the body from daily stress gets less and the body starts to relax and we will see that our muscles are not getting sore and tensed. I used to have tachicardy and BFP chi gung exercises made my heart rate return to normal, as well as my hyperthroidism got euthyroid mening that the thyroid hormones are in the normal limits. Some of my patients learnt Bak fu Pai chi gung from me and now they haven't caught flu in these past 2 years, and also their digestion got much better since the breathing is helping our digestive system to work better. A patient of mine was overweight, he lost weight from doing Bak Fu Pai moving meditation, he does them daily, its been over a year now and also on last blood test he got lower LDL cholesterol level as well as Total Cholesterol level got lower than before. Some people had migraine headaches and by doing the meditations, by time the migraine attacks lessened and almost disappeared. Lets not forget that the results people see are individual; every person is seeing different result.
meaning that you are seeing the results of non-specific generalized results that will occur in a typical population when they practice any sort of breathing / movement regimen - things like decreased generalized inflammation (arthritis, e.g.), lower cholesterol, improved digestion, improved thyroid function, improved cardiac function are all well documented to occur when people get up off their fat, sedentary buts and start moving around a bit: why do you attribute these to supposed "amazing" BFP qigong? that's showing a real lack of scope of knowledge - there is in fact tons of research on similar effects occurring from a host of other types of movement approaches, from just running on a treadmill, to taichi of various kinds;


Unlike Tai Chi, our Bak Fu Pai chi gung meditations is making the practitioners to sense the energy around their hands and around their bodies, they often ask me that their hands are getting warm and "magnetized". That is the manifestation of the energy when they do the meditations and after time the manifestation of the energy is there for all the time, but the meditations need to be done daily, and different meditations are giving different changes in the body and the energy manifestation
yes, the obligatory "why what we do is better than taichi" schtick; let's see - hands getting warm and feeling "magnetized" - ever heard of "biofeedback"? you may want to look into this AMAZING "western" practice, where people are able to actually make their hands warm up at will! and some even report feelings such as pulsations, fullness, energized, etc.; and actually, people who practice tai chi report this feeling as well!!!



12:00 PM 0 Comments(Add Comment) |0 KudosTranslate
Sunday, October 08, 2006
More on BAK FU PAI DIT DA JOW
Category: Sports
We all know that Carpal Tunnel Syndrome can not be cured by western medicine medications and eventually the patient would undergo a surgical operation.
blatantly untrue, and you should be ashamed to write this: I have known of patients who had CTS and did not need surgery, who got "better" w/meds alone; and alsothose who had PT and got better; and some for whom meds / PT didn't work and had surgery and got better, and some who had surgery and didn't; and I personally believe that many who ended up having surgery would not have needed it if they had had better conservative care; but to state what you state is just BS!


When I asked GM Doo Wai about treatments for Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, He advised me to use our BFP dit da jow. I gave some dit da jow to different ladies who had moderate to severe pain and numbness plus some have tremors of the hands, due to this syndrome. They massaged their wrists with dit da jow continuously for a month twice per day for 10 minutes each time provided that when the jow gets dried from the massage they add some dit da jow again on the massage area and continue. I observed that some patients are getting a good relief from the pain and the numbness is getting almost disappeared and the can bend their wrist with more range of motion. As I said there is no specific time period for the healing, it's individual for each patient. I recommand them to use the jow continuously, since there are no side effects and the healing takes place definitely.
so, the fact that people were simply MASSAGING themselves 20 min. / day where they were having inflammatory pain and felt better as a result doesn't make an impression on you? or that, <gasp> dit da jow might have herbs in it that have anti-inlfammatory properties - basically a comon property of ANY good jow, noting unique about BFP's stuff


We also use the jow for various inflammatory processes , such as sore muscles, tendinitis, and painful joints. And am observing much better results than our conventional western medicine drugs.
that's a real shocker there, that direct mechanical stimulation to an area can have better effects than using systemic anti-inflammatories - hmmm, someone should tell that to the massage, PT, chiropractic and osteopathic professions - oh wait - I think they already know that...




11:49 AM 0 Comments(Add Comment) |0 KudosTranslate
Sunday, October 08, 2006
BAK FU PAI DIT DA JOW
Category: Sports
Being Bak Fu Pai online student, I am seeing results from all the trainings that am doing daily, as well as our Bak Fu Pai Holistic Healing Techniques are giving great results, also the herbal treatments that am using myself and some patients and close friends are giving very good results.
Today, I want to share with you Bak Fu Pai Dit Da Jow healing effect. We all know that for training we use the jow, but there are some medicinal results that I saw by people who used the jow as a treatment for their cases.
I had few patients who were suffering from Osteoarthiritis, and they had arthritis in their knees, shoulders and distal joints. They were already tired of using anti-inflammatory drugs because of the side effects that these drugs give; they asked me if there is an alternative. I asked GM Doo Wai and he advised me to give them some jow, these patients used the jow as instructed.
The patient who used the jow for their knee arthritis is a lady in her late 60s, told me that the pain and stiffness got lesser, knee regained some of its natural flexibility, and she can walk and climb the stairs at much better ease. I told her to continue using the jow for some months.
so someone consistently rubbed their knee 2x a day for 10 min at a time and the area felt better? egads! what magic is this?!?


A young patient again a lady in her 30s, used the jow for her shoulder twice daily and in a week she could move her shoulder 90% better than before using the jow, now she can move her shoulder with full range of motion. This lady didn't have shoulder arthritis but some calcified areas of the shoulder joint as was seen in her X-ray.
and did those areas "disappear" when she was re-x-rayed after the course of treatment? I'm guessing no one checked after her miracle cure, right?


My mother used the jow for her Carpal Tunnel, she applied the jow twice daily, she got better, less numbness, less weakness of the fingers. She still continues using the jow when she gets tired from housework.
well, if you MOM says so, it must be true! :rolleyes:


I gave you some examples of people who used Bak Fu Pai Dit Da Jow, as you see, they are ladies in different ages and the jow worked excellent for them.
no, you have "demonstrated" that if someone rubs themselves where they hurt for 10 min 2x / day, that area will feel better...


Use the jow when you need it and see the results by yourself, as GM Doo Wai always says: THE PROOF IS IN THE RESULTS.
unfortunately, neither you nor he have any clue as to how to actually demonstrate "proof" appropriately, and are apparently unaware that the results can be explained by things other than the jow;

[goju]

so with purning palm say you have a realy itch crotch if you stay down there for a while sctrachin away will you burn your balls lol

[lungyuil]

Listen you idiot Taai,
I never said i trained in the BPS. I said my sifu is letting it out to the public.I train in YKM under him. At the moment that along with our internal is more than enough for me. In one of your post for the questions, you mentions sifu garry can answer. What's the problem now??

Send him your supposed questions or leave it alone..I am not interested in your thrashing comments which is why i don't get involved with the slagging. I went off earlier but regret behaving like the rest of you.

And mate i am not running anywhere nor to anyone, i have been asked not to reply and therefore i won't...I sent you an email link to ask Sifu Garry the questions, so send them!!!

Oh and in the end, if people learn this system and find it beneficial to them, what are you going to do..Call them all fake, idiots and liars...:eek: Why can't you just let it go??

I hope you all find peace in your training like i have in mine....:o

You may think you are better than me and know more, but i am on a different path to you, so my experiences really don't relate to you and your ego at all.

Peace
Lung


PS: Before you reply like i know you will, Sifu Garry is still waiting for your email with all the questions in the world you want to ask..Then you can determine his knowledge and whether he knows much...LOL.......OK MUPPET....Sorry couldn't help myself..I am still learning to turn the other cheek..hahahaha

[Lokhopkuen]

Scott,
If it is no skin off your nose what I do and waste my time with..You sure as hell spend alot of time writing posts to prove your so called point..

HAHAHAHAHA... Why is it such a big deal as to why i learn things..You say i am naive and ignorant, I could also say the same about you..You don't know me.

Once again, prove what....No matter what, you all think it is BS so why bother. I am happy with my training as i hope you are with yours.

Sorry to be so harsh but the sword form in the video shows no understanding of connection from the stance through the waist to the hands through the sword.

I am not attempting to be purposely insulting but quite frankly the first time I saw that video I thought it was an untrained child.

To find out it is the Grand Master of a Martial Arts System is shocking. Some people are making fun, but it's not funny.


It is sad.

[lungyuil]

LopHop,
Yes it is a bad demo, even my sifu doesn't think it should be online, it doesn't look good for master Wai at all. That being said, my sifu can do the BFP system well and the BPS which he specializes in amongst other BFP information. People are judging eveything based on some of his demos, which is sad.
When you see sifu Garry's DVD's, then judge for yourselves.
If you have any questions, please contact him via the email i have provided..

My Sifu is hoping to bring back some credibility to the Doo family art as Master Wai is old now.

Many Thanks
Lung

[Lokhopkuen]

LopHop,
Yes it is a bad demo, even my sifu doesn't think it should be online, it doesn't look good for master Wai at all. That being said, my sifu can do the BFP system well and the BPS which he specializes in amongst other BFP information. People are judging eveything based on some of his demos, which is sad.
When you see sifu Garry's DVD's, then judge for yourselves.
If you have any questions, please contact him via the email i have provided..

My Sifu is hoping to bring back some credibility to the Doo family art as Master Wai is old now.

Many Thanks
Lung

Thank you for your honest answer. In that case I will reserve my opinion until I get the chance to meet him in person. Please forgive any perceived rudeness in my earlier posts but this is after all a martial art discussion forum.

[taai gihk yahn]

Listen you idiot Taai,
I never said i trained in the BPS.
you start a thread advertising something that your sifu is teaching, and I'm the idiot for being under the impression that you actually have studied what you are acting as mouthpiece for? if that's the case, then you most certainly hold the title of Lord of All Idiots for getting onto a public forum and having no clue about what you are posting about;


I said my sifu is letting it out to the public.
he better put it "back in", because it's not doing anything for his overall level of credibility


I train in YKM under him. At the moment that along with our internal is more than enough for me.
then why are you even on here acting as a shill for BPS? LOL, that takes the cake for lame!


In one of your post for the questions, you mentions sifu garry can answer. What's the problem now??
the "problem" is that "Gary" seems happy to answer through you when it's at the level of talking trash, but when it comes to logical discussion and substantiation of his claims, all of a sudden he is unavailable to the forum :rolleyes:


Send him your supposed questions
"supposed" questions? I'm pretty sure they are actual questions; maybe it's that little squiggly thing at the end that is the the tip-off :rolleyes:


I am not interested in your thrashing comments which is why i don't get involved with the slagging.
if this is "not getting involved" in slagging, I'd hate to see what it's like when you do get involved!


I went off earlier but regret behaving like the rest of you.
and so you come back and continue with more of the same, LOL


And mate i am not running anywhere nor to anyone, i have been asked not to reply and therefore i won't...
so first you are "asked" to post the advert, and then you are "asked" to relay Gary's message, and then you are "asked" not to reply to reasonable questions


I sent you an email link to ask Sifu Garry the questions, so send them!!!
why do you have such a hard time understanding why I am not going to e-mail Gary? try to follow this: YOU (apparently w/Gary's schlong up your butt, directing traffic) came and posted on this forum, a forum on which I as well as many others, regularly post; I / we did not come to you, you came here to us, making claims; you were asked folllow-up questions; the onus is on you to answer them in this forum, as the ones coming here peddling your wares,


Oh and in the end, if people learn this system and find it beneficial to them, what are you going to do..Call them all fake, idiots and liars...:eek:
it depends - some people are very good at fooling themselves for years thinking they are learning something of value when it's all just in function of their self-delusion; in the case of BFP, it's been one bag of tin-foil hat krazy after another, pretty much all public representatives of BFP have been border-line personality types - Doo Wai w/his rambling internet posts, sub-standard bok mei rip-off demos, run-of-the-mill qigong demos and nutso forum where he pretends to be Jim Lacy and has conversations with himself, and the sword demo that even YOU admit is awful (but assure us that just because everything we see that he demos is bad, still, the other stuff is good and we should believe you just because :rolleyes:); Gary was the King of All Krazies when he was on here and was subsequently banned for life because of his unprecedented ranting; you are apparently no different with your bipolar posting style - having that to go on, the logical conclusion is that pretty much you are a group of fakes, idiots and liars, yes;


Why can't you just let it go??
I guess it's just too much fun taking you guys to the shed - you certainly make it very easy to do so!


I hope you all find peace in your training like i have in mine....:o
I'd forget about the peace and start looking for some semblance of reason and sanity if I were you; which mercifully, I am not...


You may think you are better than me and know more,
apparently, at this juncture and based on the general tenor of your responses, I do


but i am on a different path to you, so my experiences really don't relate to you and your ego at all.
well, it's been a while since I've worked with in-patient psych population, so yeah, I haven't come across anyone like you in some time


PS: Before you reply like i know you will,
more "proof" of BPS's amazing psychic powers? oh wait, you don't do BPS, so that must mean you are just naturally gifted, "knowing" that I would post on a forum that I post on regularly!


Sifu Garry is still waiting for your email with all the questions in the world you want to ask..Then you can determine his knowledge and whether he knows much...LOL.......
we already know Gary is a total lunatic; as for his "knowledge", if he wants to make public assertions, he can follow them up publicly;


OK MUPPET....
:confused: WTF does that mean? you better check your meds, I think Gary has been replacing them with Jujee Fruits and hoarding them for himself


Sorry couldn't help myself..I am still learning to turn the other cheek..hahahaha
well, you suck at it; and FYI, it's going to hurt just as much when that one gets smacked as well...

[Scott R. Brown]

As always Chris you have done and excellent job revealing foolishness, and rubbing their collective noses in it!

It is unfortunate that Dr. Harout (?) has resorted to “snake oil salesmen techniques”. It would not be unreasonable to expect more from a Doctor (?)!

If he is truly a Doctor (?), I am surprised he hasn’t lost his license yet! If he is truly a Doctor (?) he should be ashamed of himself for using anecdotal comments from his own patients as evidence to support his own biases.

I know Bones said, “I’m a DOCTOR, not a scientist!”, but the truth of the matter is that ”Doctors ARE scientists”, or at the very least, should be!

A, couple of comments, some of them already pointed out:

1) It should be fairly easy to demonstrate, through scientific protocols, that this mumbo jumbo works, if it really worked.

2) If it does work, it must also be demonstrated that it works better than other therapeutic modalities. Anyone can walk or swim or move their limbs around and breathe deeply to improve their general fitness and reduce common simple ailments. This also applies to massage therapy, which is about as ancient as mankind on all continents. But then the practitioner doesn’t get to feel “special” that they are practicing an ancient and secret Asian method.

3) It should also be demonstrated that this “special” method surpasses the expected benefits of the placebo effect which has been generally demonstrated to be around 30% effective (+ or -).


As to the heating of the palm, I have done that very easily without any special training many times using a bio-feedback machine as Chris has mentioned above, as well as speeding up and slowing down my heart rate.

Why buy dit jow when over the counter analgesic balm, ointments and creams are cheaper and work just as well? I’ll tell you why, because it isn’t as romantic and the Doctor (?) doesn’t gain any brownie points from his instructor for it!

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi lungyuil,

You are the only idiot here, well okay, Dr. Harut too!

It is not our responsibility to contact Garry, if we have any questions, YOU are responsible for the initial post. We haven’t made any wild claims, YOU have! It is incumbent upon you and Garry to come here and prove the validity of YOUR/HIS claims.

We want proof your/his hocus pocus works. That is not an unreasonable request. It has already been demonstrated using reasoned argument how and why your/his claims are foolishness. Your replies, and Dr. Harout’s (?), have not reasonably demonstrated proof of your claims. They are providing reinforcing evidence of the foolishness of your thinking and the childishness of your minds!

We don’t have to prove you two are idiots, you are doing quite well without any help on your own, and Dr. Harout (?) is helping you very well! It is incumbent upon you guys to demonstrate you are not full of it! YOU are making the claims!

I told you everyone who posts an advertisement on this BB gets razzed. You have put yourself and your instructor in the position you are in! NO ONE did it to you!

You didn’t get lowered to our level, YOU STARTED OUT THERE!

The contributors to this thread just pointed out that that is where you reside and the truth hurts sometimes!

[taai gihk yahn]

Yes it is a bad demo, even my sifu doesn't think it should be online, it doesn't look good for master Wai at all.
finally, a glimmer of truth - there is hope for you yet! brother, someone needs to sit the old codger down and explain to him that he should never, under any circumstances, post on the internet anything he does; or just take away his computer -if he's wearing that long sash, he'll probably trip over it trying to chase you down...


That being said, my sifu can do the BFP system well and the BPS which he specializes in amongst other BFP information.
so you're saying that Gary's BFP is better than Doo Wai's?


People are judging eveything based on some of his demos, which is sad.
try all of his demos - the gim was just the worst of the lot; and if not to judge by his demos, what, pray, should they judge by?


When you see sifu Garry's DVD's, then judge for yourselves.
will he be distributing free demo copies for review?


My Sifu is hoping to bring back some credibility to the Doo family art as Master Wai is old now.
LOL - Krazy Gary is going to bring credibility back? oh Lord, world turned upside down! BTW, you know, Doo being old (although according to his myspace, he's only 48!) really has nothing to do w/credibility - in fact, TRADITIONALLY, in CMA, it was the opposite - the older you got, the better you got, the more credibility you had;

[taai gihk yahn]

take-home message for people to pay attention to:


But then the practitioner doesn’t get to feel “special” that they are practicing an ancient and secret Asian method.

ScotT has qi-blasted the correct and made it fetch the morning paper for him!

[Scott R. Brown]

take-home message for people to pay attention to:

Originally Posted by Scott R. Brown
But then the practitioner doesn’t get to feel “special” that they are practicing an ancient and secret Asian method.

ScotT has qi-blasted the correct and made it fetch the morning paper for him!

Does that mean I just made another "tasty salad"?:D

[taai gihk yahn]

Does that mean I just made another "tasty salad"?:D

indeed it does my friend, indeed it does ;)

[Scott R. Brown]

indeed it does my friend, indeed it does ;)

**claps while jumping up and down** and singing "Last Train to Awesome Town!":D

[taai gihk yahn]

**claps while jumping up and down** and singing "last train to awesome town!":d

roflmao...

[Scott R. Brown]

roflmao...

Well who can pass up insouciant verbiage!:)

[Scott R. Brown]

...with thousand island dressing, of course!

[lungyuil]

WOW....
hahahahahhaha...I must admit to laughing and almost falling off my chair from you guys..

You have alot of hate in you. I don't care for your Razzed crap, but i am glad you have brought so much attention to my sifu's website....So Thankyou very much..

I think it is also my prerogative to tell you email Sifu if you want answers, so just do that....

OH AND YES SIFU GARRY IS A LUNATIC...I KNOW, I Train with him, so i guess i am one too...LOL..

Oh and Snott...Rubbing my nose in what??? I still don't care for your opinions..

SO MUPPETS Thanks again for all the publicity and attention...
Many Thanks...I will ask sifu to send you free DVD's for all your help....LOL..So you better stop the slagging or you won't get your FREE DVD..

[Scott R. Brown]

WOW....and Snott...Rubbing my nose in what??? I still don't care for your opinions..

Zippedee Doo Da...

Zippedee Ay...

My! Oh! My! What a wonderful day!.....

There's plenty of sunshine headed my way...

Zippedee Doo Da.....Zippedee Ay!!:)

Oh Uh...rubbing your nose in your own doo doo, but clearly you can't smell your own Sh!t....which is another sign of delusion! Or it could be because of where Garry's Schlong is!!!:eek:

Zippedee Do Da...

ZIppedee Ay.....

[lungyuil]

Yes Muppet..We are betting what page wee will be on in the morning..MANY THANKS......OH and Remember the Free DVD..Sifu Garry Specifically asked me to thank you;)

[Scott R. Brown]

Yes Muppet..Sifu Garry Specifically asked me to thank you;)

If I knowed you was coming I'd have baked a cake....

baked a cake....

baked a cake...

Uh....He should be thanking YOU I believe...

and/or you him!

(YOU (apparently w/Gary's schlong up your butt, directing traffic))

If I'd knowed you was coming I'd a baked a cake...

Hocha Doo, Hocha Doo, Hocha Doo Doo Doo!!!:D

[lungyuil]

Hey Muppet..Not a big cake eater..Prefer a Pie.....Thanks anyway See you soon..Oh and what time??...Oh and Don't forget the Free DVD;)

[Scott R. Brown]

Hey Muppet..Not a big cake eater..

That was a song sung by Bert and Ernie! You know...the GAY Muppets!


..Prefer a Pie.....

I guess that would be CREAM pie then!:D

By the way...

I just want to say you are doing a very good job of not responding like Long Schlong Garry asked you too! :eek:

Keep up the good work!:D

[David Jamieson]

In this case, bad publicity is not the free publicity you may be looking for.

consult a marketing class at your local community college immediately!

:rolleyes:

[lungyuil]

Muppet..hahahaha..I found a clip of both of u muppets....Here it is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh_aG5MzPVM..Enjoy..
hahahha and i like my cream whipped..LOL..Don't forget the Free DVD;)..Thanks Muppet Snott

[Scott R. Brown]

hahahha and i like my cream whipped..LOL..

That is something you should be cooing to Garry, NOT a public BB!:eek:

Ooops! Sorry David, LOL

[Reality_Check]

Yes I was at that hospital from 2000-2002....from January 2003-present am in my own office.

Are you still affiliated with the hospital? The reason I ask is that I was under the impression you were still working there as of September 6, 2005.

[taai gihk yahn]

Muppet..hahahaha..I found a clip of both of u muppets....Here it is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh_aG5MzPVM..Enjoy..
hahahha and i like my cream whipped..LOL..Don't forget the Free DVD;)..Thanks Muppet Snott

clicking on the above link results in the following message:

"The URL contained a malformed video ID."

considering who it was provided by, no surprise there...

[David Jamieson]

WOW....
hahahahahhaha...I must admit to laughing and almost falling off my chair from you guys..

You have alot of hate in you. I don't care for your Razzed crap, but i am glad you have brought so much attention to my sifu's website....So Thankyou very much..

I think it is also my prerogative to tell you email Sifu if you want answers, so just do that....

OH AND YES SIFU GARRY IS A LUNATIC...I KNOW, I Train with him, so i guess i am one too...LOL..

Oh and Snott...Rubbing my nose in what??? I still don't care for your opinions..

SO MUPPETS Thanks again for all the publicity and attention...
Many Thanks...I will ask sifu to send you free DVD's for all your help....LOL..So you better stop the slagging or you won't get your FREE DVD..

dude... you have issues. Seek professional help.

[taai gihk yahn]

Well who can pass up insouciant verbiage!:)

"Not I!", said the Pig, as he watched the Little Red Hen do all the work.

[Scott R. Brown]

"Not I!", said the Pig, as he watched the Little Red Hen do all the work.

LOL! Spoken like a true student of Tao!

He writes volumes contrasting and comparing exaggerated claims against true medical facts and then calls MY (if I may so describe them) "humorous little ditties" WORK!!

Now I'm wondering who the REAL crazy one is? LOL!!

(Yeah! Crazy like a fox!)

You don't fool me........I'm keeping my eyes on you!:eek:

But I think I'll help myself to some more "tasty salad" first!

[taai gihk yahn]

we have had some allegations that Dr. Quack-root is possibly under investigation in Beirut for questionable medical practices there; we also have a man (woman) on the ground locally looking into his status and possibly interviewing former disgruntled patients, some of who may have even sustained serious injury as a result of this man's "treatment"; we will have to wait and see what happens, but these are the questions we are seeking answers for...

[lkfmdc]

Are you still affiliated with the hospital? The reason I ask is that I was under the impression you were still working there as of September 6, 2005.

I understand that for legal reasons they can't comment on WHY he is "no longer affiliated with this hospitol"

but you have to admit, that's sort of strange, especially when he is no longer affiliated with ANY institution :confused:

[TenTigers]

actually, I think it's great that Garry is picking up the BFP gauntlet. Someone should.
He has a backround in Yau Kung Mun, so he can demonstrate the BFP forms and technique properly.
DW is one, elderly, and two-might be physically ungifted.
And we sure know Homeless Santa Guy could not move to save his life.
So as far as the physical aspects, I think he's got that area covered. There are many people that move better than their Sifus.

The internal stuff, palms, jow, ch'i-gung-it is what it is. I don't think it's so different than other internal palm techniques, but time will tell.

If Garry presents BFP sensibly, he might in one generation, undo what the previous representatives have done.

When you look at it, it's marketing, plain and simple. Santa Manson and The 48 yr old man simply did an atrocious job of presenting their art and marketing it. Dr Harut is in my opinion, is marketing his jow and chi-gung on his website to his clients. I think he is overstating the obvious, but then again, his clients are not people with medical backrounds.

You can take any art, be it Hung-Ga, CLF, Lama, etc., and if you put it out there with poor representation and obvious attempts at overselling, you and your art's name will lose all credibility.
Don't you guys cringe every time you see another guy bending a spear or iron rod against his throat, or a bed of nails,etc-and he is from your style?
It's really the same as Dr. Harut's marketing-those demos are not aimed at Martial Artists, and certainly not Sifus, but at the general (ignorant) public.
But I think people take the ignorance of the public too far. The public is ignorant, not stupid.That's why there are marketing specialists. Sometimes you need to seek out professional help.

Well, perhaps BFP is off to a fresh start.

[Reality_Check]

actually, I think it's great that Garry is picking up the BFP gauntlet. Someone should.
He has a backround in Yau Kung Mun, so he can demonstrate the BFP forms and technique properly.
DW is one, elderly, and two-might be physically ungifted.
And we sure know Homeless Santa Guy could not move to save his life.
So as far as the physical aspects, I think he's got that area covered. There are many people that move better than their Sifus.

The internal stuff, palms, jow, ch'i-gung-it is what it is. I don't think it's so different than other internal palm techniques, but time will tell.

If Garry presents BFP sensibly, he might in one generation, undo what the previous representatives have done.

When you look at it, it's marketing, plain and simple. Santa Manson and The 48 yr old man simply did an atrocious job of presenting their art and marketing it. Dr Harut is in my opinion, is marketing his jow and chi-gung on his website to his clients. I think he is overstating the obvious, but then again, his clients are not people with medical backrounds.

You can take any art, be it Hung-Ga, CLF, Lama, etc., and if you put it out there with poor representation and obvious attempts at overselling, you and your art's name will lose all credibility.
Don't you guys cringe every time you see another guy bending a spear or iron rod against his throat, or a bed of nails,etc-and he is from your style?
It's really the same as Dr. Harut's marketing-those demos are not aimed at Martial Artists, and certainly not Sifus, but at the general (ignorant) public.
But I think people take the ignorance of the public too far. The public is ignorant, not stupid.That's why there are marketing specialists. Sometimes you need to seek out professional help.

Well, perhaps BFP is off to a fresh start.

That would be very interesting. Especially considering that Garry is a video student of Doo Wai, and, to my knowledge, has never physically met the man.

[Reality_Check]

I understand that for legal reasons they can't comment on WHY he is "no longer affiliated with this hospitol"

but you have to admit, that's sort of strange, especially when he is no longer affiliated with ANY institution :confused:

Really? That has certainly come out of left field.

[lkfmdc]

Really? That has certainly come out of left field.

we got someone actually in Beirut to dig around, we've found some interesting stuff

[CLFLPstudent]

That would be very interesting. Especially considering that Garry is a video student of Doo Wai, and, to my knowledge, has never physically met the man.

As is, if I remember correctly, Harout....

He ( Dr Harout) doesn't like me very much, can someone ask him if he can revive a dead, beheaded insect 5 minutes after beheading? (http://doowaibfp.forumup.org/about864-doowaibfp.html) Maybe instead of a people doctor he should be an insect doctor?


Anyone else notice how Harout capitalizes "He" and "Him" whilst talking about Wai?

-David

[David Jamieson]

we got someone actually in Beirut to dig around, we've found some interesting stuff

well there is a lot of holes there. plenty of places to dig. lol

[Dr.Harut]

Are you still affiliated with the hospital? The reason I ask is that I was under the impression you were still working there as of September 6, 2005.


in 2005 I went for few hrs per week, for couple of months....because from january 2003 I already bought my office and am still in my office since then.

[Dr.Harut]

we got someone actually in Beirut to dig around, we've found some interesting stuff

let me know too....because if he gives wrong info...I'll sue him...if gives right info...then thats good...you're making me famous.

[lkfmdc]

let me know too....because if he gives wrong info...I'll sue him...if gives right info...then thats good...you're making me famous.

Don't you pay attention at all? :rolleyes: Our source is a woman....

And you'll know exactly what we find because it will be here for the world to see :D

[Dr.Harut]

we have had some allegations that Dr. Quack-root is possibly under investigation in Beirut for questionable medical practices there; we also have a man (woman) on the ground locally looking into his status and possibly interviewing former disgruntled patients, some of who may have even sustained serious injury as a result of this man's "treatment"; we will have to wait and see what happens, but these are the questions we are seeking answers for...

Now you are lying....I didn't expact lies from you...you put yourself a "respectable scientist" ...stay on that ground...lying is not good.

[Dr.Harut]

Don't you pay attention at all? :rolleyes: Our source is a woman....

And you'll know exactly what we find because it will be here for the world to see :D

Do not forget to put her or his real name and phone number here on the board too...because as I see...I'll sue her, if she or he gives wrong information about me.

[lkfmdc]

Do not forget to put her or his real name and phone number here on the board too...because as I see...I'll sue her, if she or he gives wrong information about me.

how about your real name and contact info first?

[Dr.Harut]

how about your real name and contact info first?

you all know my real name...as for contact info....let your source find it...am in the Armenian region of Beirut city...she should know well where it is...and she can find my office very easily...so lets wait and see what wil your source reveals about me....but be careful....first be a gentleman and give her real name when she gives info about me...so that if its wrong info...I'll sue her.

[lkfmdc]

You're probably going to make your lawyer rich, suing her, the hospitol, a newspaper, a TV station, etc etc etc etc

[Dr.Harut]

You're probably going to make your lawyer rich, suing her, the hospitol, a newspaper, a TV station, etc etc etc etc


Lets wait and see....will not reply to any post....when you get the info from your source...post it here.

[taai gihk yahn]

Now you are lying....I didn't expact lies from you...you put yourself a "respectable scientist" ...stay on that ground...lying is not good.

LOL - you talk about ethics and then blog about the efficacy of your dit da now based on subjective anecdotal evidence; you also double talk about BPS, claiming in one place that you don't do "energy healing" but describe yourself doing it on another forum
anyway don't get yourself all worked up - what lies? We are just asking questions and making routine inquiries via our local contacts, and you seem to get all nervous - what are you so worried about? You seem to be concerned that something will come to light that you want to stay hidden - is that the case?

[lkfmdc]

You seem to be concerned that something will come to light that you want to stay hidden - is that the case?

we already know the answer!

[taai gihk yahn]

we already know the answer!

Just giving him the benefit of the doubt in case he wants to
make a full disclosure...

[Scott R. Brown]

I want a secret world traveling investigator friend too!!

Oh wait...I DO have one....his name is Bond....James Bond!!

....or was that a dream?:confused: