Moy Yat's secret form ?????

[Phil Redmond]

http://www.everythingwingchun.com/Frank-Wyatt-N-D-The-Body-Blueprint-p/fw01.htm
Someone told me that Frank Wyatt says he learned from YM. :confused:

[Ultimatewingchun]

Phil:

I spent 8 years with Moy Yat from 1975-1983...and I've been in touch in recent years with folks I trained with back in the day - as well as people who trained with Moy Yat for many years after I left (and one of whom started within 2-3 years after I left - and who stayed right up until Moy Yat's passing in 2000).

And I read the info on the link you provided carefully, and my take is this:

1) The was no "new" form(s) introduced after I left by Moy Yat
2) The guy on the link may have simply had some conversations with Moy Yat about the internal aspect of the first section of SLT (as some of us had as well) - and then decided to really
run down the field with it.

I haven't read the book advertised on the link, so I don't know for sure - but this is my first educated guess as to what's going on.

[InfiniteApogee]

The siu nim do form was a form made for kids. It's not a secret form. Just a little training form for kids.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsk7h3Hm6_w

[Marcelo-RJ]

In Leo Imamura's school, everyone starts with Siu Nin Do - being or not a kid.

[chusauli]

Its a beginner form - for those students that just come and go. I guess if you have a commercial school, its like those Fukyugata, Pinan Kata, Mui Fa Kuen, etc. throw away sets before one gets serious...

[anerlich]

My Sifu showed me a number of "secret" froms and dummy sets.

I've made several up myself as well.

[chusauli]

A lot of times "secret" is just a gimmick, a buzzword, or selling pitch. Who doesn't like a good mystery and solve it?

I think Rick Spain's idea to have people develop their own secret set(s) is a good one. It engages a student's creativity and intelligence. Sets are made of core movements and necessary for developing functionality, not for the sake of learning another varied pattern of the same basics.

[Hendrik]

Is there secret in TCMA training?

Yes, secrets are the key points or the handling points which help one to master the condition or to settle the confusion while in training or applications.

Thus, Kuen kuit is a secret because Kuen Kuit provides the points handling, settle confusion, and giving direction.



To be honest but straight forward, we today are too shallow to even arrive to the needs of the Kuen kuit or the secret.


Just look around how many of us still would not be able to decide is it the heel or is it the ball of the foot.....etc

These days everyone wants to be sifus and well, so all of us the sifus generate tons of secrets which contribute to more confusion and non deliverable ego speculation. free will world. hahaha

[t_niehoff]

Is there secret in TCMA training?


No.



Yes, secrets are the key points or the handling points which help one to master the condition or to settle the confusion while in training or applications.


Are there secrets to becoming a good basketball player or good boxer or good wrestler or good in any athletic activity? Funny, how we are so sensible when we think of these things but that changes when we are concerned with TCMAs.



Thus, Kuen kuit is a secret because Kuen Kuit provides the points handling, settle confusion, and giving direction.


In my view, the kuit doesn't answer questions or provide guidance, in major part because the kuit is open to interpretation. At best, the kuit are "points of inquiry", things for persons to think about as they train/practice. As our understanding of WCK depends on our skill level, as our skill grows so does our understanding, including our understanding of the kuit.



To be honest but straight forward, we today are too shallow to even arrive to the needs of the Kuen kuit or the secret.


The understanding of all aspects of WCK comes only from application, from fighting (using our WCK in fighting). "Shallowness" comes from not DOING it.



Just look around how many of us still would not be able to decide is it the heel or is it the ball of the foot.....etc


There is no decision -- application "decides" for you.



These days everyone wants to be sifus and well, so all of us the sifus generate tons of secrets which contribute to more confusion and non deliverable ego speculation. free will world. hahaha

No, the real problem is that these days 99.9% of TCMA practitioners aren't practicing martial arts -- they aren't fighting (and certainly not against competent fighters). This leads to the blind leading the blind.

[sandman]

Phil:

I spent 8 years with Moy Yat from 1975-1983...and I've been in touch in recent years with folks I trained with back in the day - as well as people who trained with Moy Yat for many years after I left (and one of whom started within 2-3 years after I left - and who stayed right up until Moy Yat's passing in 2000).

And I read the info on the link you provided carefully, and my take is this:

1) The was no "new" form(s) introduced after I left by Moy Yat
2) The guy on the link may have simply had some conversations with Moy Yat about the internal aspect of the first section of SLT (as some of us had as well) - and then decided to really
run down the field with it.

I haven't read the book advertised on the link, so I don't know for sure - but this is my first educated guess as to what's going on.

My sihing, Frank, actually asked me not to bother replying, but I just want to clear the air.

I have the video of Sigung Moy Yat creating Siu Nim Do (along with Sifus Mickey Chan, Pete Pajil and Miguel Hernandez) somewhere. It was released at the begining of Sigung's Siu Nim Tao video. I'll have to dig in some boxes and find it and get permission to post it.

As for the book, Frank never claimed it was a secret form, that was added by the editors at everythingwingchun. The book is really about Natural Health not Ving Tsun, but Frank received permission from the Moy Yat family to include Siu Nim Do as a healthful exercise.

And I'm sure Frank has never claimed to have learned from YM. He was one of the first students under Sifu Pete Pajil. Though he did spend plenty of time with Sigung Moy Yat (I think he's sitting in the background in the Siu Nim Do video).

[Phil Redmond]

My sihing, Frank, actually asked me not to bother replying, but I just want to clear the air.

I have the video of Sigung Moy Yat creating Siu Nim Do (along with Sifus Mickey Chan, Pete Pajil and Miguel Hernandez) somewhere. It was released at the begining of Sigung's Siu Nim Tao video. I'll have to dig in some boxes and find it and get permission to post it.

As for the book, Frank never claimed it was a secret form, that was added by the editors at everythingwingchun. The book is really about Natural Health not Ving Tsun, but Frank received permission from the Moy Yat family to include Siu Nim Do as a healthful exercise.

And I'm sure Frank has never claimed to have learned from YM. He was one of the first students under Sifu Pete Pajil. Though he did spend plenty of time with Sigung Moy Yat (I think he's sitting in the background in the Siu Nim Do video).
Thanks for the clarification.

[russellsherry]

hi sifu phill when i was training with my first sifu, he told me of a version of sill lim tao from moy yat, in which both the taan sua and fook sau moved at the same time , this might be what frank is on about my sifu trained with a man called stanley cheung whom was a pupial of moy yat in hk , stan taught at grandmasters 191 russell st school for a while but olny teaches private lessons or not at all regards russell sherry

[goju]

according to moy yat just about everything he teaches is top secret lol
i remember that article in inside kung fu about moy yats wing chun the technique was horrible and it was a bogus claim that the butterfly knifes were top secret when just about every **** wc teacher knows them

[LSWCTN1]

the butterfly knifes were top secret when just about every **** wc teacher 'knows' them

i'll bite!

i have actually fixed that for you - what you said was not incorrect as such, but you have to remember - you cant learn properly from someone that hasnt themselves learnt properly

big problem in the wc world, as i'm sure everyone on here will agree

[k gledhill]

i'll bite!

i have actually fixed that for you - what you said was not incorrect as such, but you have to remember - you cant learn properly from someone that hasnt themselves learnt properly

big problem in the wc world, as i'm sure everyone on here will agree

give that man a cigar ! :D

[Hendrik]

In my view, the kuit doesn't answer questions or provide guidance, in major part because the kuit is open to interpretation.


That is your speculation and also shown you dont know what is Kuit.

[Tom Kagan]

Its a beginner form - for those students that just come and go. I guess if you have a commercial school, its like those Fukyugata, Pinan Kata, Mui Fa Kuen, etc. throw away sets before one gets serious...

It's not a 'beginner form', per se, but a demonstration form. It was meant to spark more conversation than SiuNimTao would, especially for children It is somewhat amusing the name of the form: 'SiuNimDo' was translated as 'just a way to begin'.


hi sifu phill when i was training with my first sifu, he told me of a version of sill lim tao from moy yat, in which both the taan sua and fook sau moved at the same time

Uh ... no, just ... uh ... no.


according to moy yat just about everything he teaches is top secret lol

If that were true, he wouldn't have said on numerous occasions that Ving Tsun was 'nothing special', nor would he have carved in stone: "SaoGerk SohngSiu, MoJeetJiu."

[russellsherry]

hi gojo just to let you know the sifu i was speaking of ws a guy called stan cheung my former teacher told me of this version of sil lim tao where one part used both taan anf fook move at the same time one of my friends carlo bassi saw him perform it but he may have made up something himself , like sifu fong whom puts the double punch in the later part of sil lim tao i like the thinking of punching at two levels so sifu fongs methord there is something i quite like . but the one thing about stan cheung he is quite famous for not wanting to teach in public and that his right, from what i gather and i may be wrong he leant from sifu moy in hk regards russellsherry