Sam Sing Ya Ga seems to be taking root

[hskwarrior]

Well, i started a Sam Sing Yat Ga group on Facebook, and the numbers of members are growing....slowly but growing.....if you're into uniting CLF, pls become a member of this group.

anyways, i've been hearing through the grapevine that there are certain high profile CLF sifu's who are taking up the Sam Sing Yat Ga cause and have been talking about "you know, we should really try putting all three lineages together." hmmmmmm i remember when people said this would never work.....

yeah....i remember, it all started when i created the video's called Sam Sing Yat Ga....and people said it wouldn't take hold......it's nice to see others begin to believe what i was saying sooo long ago it seems.

[TenTigers]

ripples in the waters and the beating of a butterfly's wings. It all starts with an idea, which if nourished properly, grows into something great. Keep up the good work, Frank.

[taai gihk yahn]

as a "hybrid" CLF practitioner, I can only say that Frank's efforts in this regard should not only be supported, but embraced wholeheartedly - the days of factionalism are past, the future lies in unity [wipes tear of sentiment from cheek]

ok, seriously - it really makes no sense at this point for CLF folks to be adversarial - some may still use the differences as a vehicle to carry on personal issues, but beyond that, it's just silly;

[hskwarrior]

well, you know, i've been in contact with certain high ranked CLF disciples/teachers in australia under Chan Yong Ya, and politely discussing history. It's come to light that Chan Family does not have any REAL details about Jeung Hung Sing..that's ok, because it explains alot.

I knew once the history would get sorted out, all that would be left is to unite the system.

IMHO, a great historical debate is what broke the ice, and now i believe with the exposure Via Youtube of ALL three branches of CLF, we've come to see similarities, differences, and things you'd never thought of before.

Although some of these high profiled sifu's are acting like it was THEIR idea to unite the families material and branches, Sam Sing Yat Ga (for the current generation) is my baby....still in the end, if it unites the family who cares who finishes it......:D

[Drake]

The GGM has been the single most dividing figure of CLF. I bet he would hate to know this if he were alive today.

Funny how the most influential figures of CLF also ended up being the most divisive of the art.

[extrajoseph]

Hi Frank,

Contrary to your assumption, the Chen Family has the REAL details about Jeung Ah Yim but they choose not to air the dirty linen in public for the sake of the unity of CLF, which is very fragile at the best.

You can ask this "high ranked CLF disciples/teachers in australia under Chan Yong Ya" to look up chapter 44 (entitled "Written Record for Jeung Ah Yim" <張阿炎錄>) in Chan Yiu-Chi's "Re-recorded History of CLF" and see what he says.

My feeling is you are making this up, or they are giving you the official line.

Not that I am against Sam Sing Ya Ga, which is badly needed now, for the sake of CLF and you are doing a good job promoting this cause, but the written family material is there and whether the Chan family chose to open this can of worms is their business.

But I bet someday it will be out in the open, because of the nature of our open society, and we have to deal with it, by then I hope we are strong enough as a group to handle it.

I will not say any more on this subject.

XJ.

[hskwarrior]

Contrary to your assumption, the Chen Family has the REAL details about Jeung Ah Yim but they choose not to air the dirty linen in public for the sake of the unity of CLF, which is very fragile at the best.

Really...lol......That doesn't happen to come from the Third Generation Master Chan Yiu Chi would it? IF it is, you can keep it. If I was going to believe anything from chan fam, it would have to be written by Chan Heung himself......and i was told that the only mentions of Jeung Hung Sing was that in "1867 Jeung Yim returns to re-open school"......it does NOT say he went to open a Chan Family school, but it does say RE-OPEN and this is in regards to his Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon orignally established in 1851.

How could you ever expect us to believe someone who was born 1 year prior to Jeung Hung Sing passing away in 1893. Chan Yiu Chi (1892-1965) would have had to rely on others to "RECORD" such history about Jeung Hung Sing........and my next question would be.....seriously....would Jeung Hung Sing's distant memory be on the mind of an 18 year old kid? What about a 20 year old kid? the more time goes by the more Chan Yiu Chi had to rely on others memories to record the history.


My feeling is you are making this up, or they are giving you the official line.

If i was making this up, then shouldn't YOU know if i was or wasn't? the fact that your feeling is i'm making it up shows that you too aren't as knowledgeable as you previously thought.

So, do i trust you? do i really have to ask that?


REAL details about Jeung Ah Yim but they choose not to air the dirty linen in public

Really? was any of that dealing with him thinking he was going to be the next inheritor of Chan Heung's lineage?

I mean, Jeung Hung Sing took down the Chan Family Hung Sing Kwoon's name and re-placed it with his own Hung Sing Kwoon.......is that some of the dirty laundry?

Of course, your records say Jeung Yim returns to re-open school, but no more than that. Somehow, that record fails to mention how Jeung Hung Sing was able to establish his own school in 1851.......or are you gonna tell me now that Chan Heung ordered Jeung Hung Sing to open that school? Maybe....just maybe.....there is no records of Jeung Hung Sing in Chan fam records around 1851 because Jeung Hung Sing wasn't a student of Chan Heung any longer and was a student of the Green Grass Monk?

Joseph, you shouldn't fight it.....come to grips that your chan fam archives lacks serious information about Jeung Hung Sing......

Example, i never heard from the Chan Fam that Jeung Hung Sing was married and had two kids......

The more you fight it, the more confident i am because i've seen you flip flop joseph. I will never trust your word again, but I will do this.........

THANKS JOSEPH, IT WAS BECAUSE OF YOU and your "find proof, evidence, and so forth".......well, i did. And, it's overwhelming. You inspired me to keep looking, digging, and searching.........and brother joe........in regards to the Hung Sing Kwoon.......i've provided solid answers to many unanswered questions so far.

Another example, i have this theory in regards to the Hung Sing Kwoon's L shape Hoi Jong and it's connection to the Heaven Earht and Man Society. But i discuss that in my book.

Again, the only thanks you get from me (revel or not) is for inspiring me to keep looking no matter how many haters try to tell you you will never find anything. THANK YOU BROTHER JOE!!!!!!!

[hskwarrior]

drake,

I feel you. But, most people in southern gung fu don't realize just how much the Green Grass Monk, and the other four ancestors of the Hung Mun have a part to play in what they do.

Have you ever seen the hand shape for TURTLE? That one, the Hang Loose sign (reps DRAGON), Tiger Claw, Crane Beak, and the "Twin Dragons going for the Pearls" hand shapes are in actuality secret hand signals identifying each one of the 5 Hung Mun Ancestors.

In my research, i've even discovered what i believe to be the true reason the Lau Bun lineage uses a solid fist Chop Choy over that of a panther fist'd one. Knowing that Jeung Hung Sing, maybe yuen hai, Lau Bun, Jew Leong, were members of the Hung Society, it now makes complete sense. Hung Society call signals are all over Prof. Lau Bun's gung fu. Which leads me to the solid fist'd chop choy......in the Triad society, the closed solid fist is a representation or secret call signal for "UNITY".........we weren't raised around other CLF, and had no other affiliations or contact with other CLF schools. so when i looked inside the hung society, much of Prof. Lau Bun's Hung Sing Kuen made much more sense to me.

[extrajoseph]

Hi Frank,

You are so one-sided in your argument it is hard not to reply.

If you only going to believe something from the Chan family if Chan Heung himself writes it, then have you seen anything written by Jeung Ah Yim himself? Did he ever mention the GGM?

How can you dig deeper at the history of CLF without looking at what the Chan family archive has in store? At least you will have something to compare.

Have you been to Jeung Ah Yim's village? Have you met any of his descendants if he was married and had two kids? Have you seen his grave? Have you been to Guangzhou or Kong-Moon or King Mui and check their records compare to Futsan?

You have got a lifetime's work ahead of you if you are really serious about the history of CLF; otherwise your book is not worth a cent.

CLF is now officially recognized as an intangible culture heritage of China, thanks to Chen Zhongjie and the Chen clan, so may be you can get some funding to do your research, otherwise all these claims you made are no more than your theories without any proof.

You don't have to trust me, but at least what I said you could look it up. Can we do the same from what you've told us? The answer is a resounding no!

XJ

[extrajoseph]

PS:

If you can get hold of this Chapter 44 then you can also read Chan Yiu-Chi's explanation why there is no picture of Chan Heung in the Hung Sing Schools.

But with your status, Frank, there is a zero chance that you will ever get anywhere near the Chan family archive, so you can dig as much as you like in the Hung Mun or whatever records and you won't find anything worthwhile as far as the intimate and personal history of CLF is concerned.

But I know, it won't stop you and you don't need the Chan family records, so do carry on making a fool of yourself!:D

XJ

[hskwarrior]

joseph,

see you keep lying......you said that is all you have to say....yet here you are stirring up more trouble......

see. i was already told about the Chan Heung painting......and how it was based of of chan yiu chi and Chan koon pak.....


How can you dig deeper at the history of CLF without looking at what the Chan family archive has in store? At least you will have something to compare.

I'm not DIGGING at the history of CLF......i'm digging at the history of the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon founded by Jeung Hung Sing. See, your chan family records DO NOT mention that jeung hung sing established his Hung Sing Kwoon in 1851, but it DOES say that he RETURNED to RE-OPEN his school in 1867........the infamous 16 year gap won't go away.....

JOSEPH........

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH............
YOU CHAN FAMILY RECORDS HAVE NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH FUT SAN HUNG SING........WHY?

well, let me list the issues again......

- who used the HUNG SING name first?
Chan folk claim they did, but failed to mention although they sound the same, they were completely different in actual translation.

Chan Fam pushes a painting of Chan Heung but fails to tell people it's not the actual person, but a theory of what he may look like based on his son and grand son.


Chan fam claims Chan Heung sent Jeung Hung Sing to fut san in 1867.......but fail to mention that he already established his own school in fut san in 1851.

Chan Fam first claims there is NO evidence of the records that Ching Cho ever existed, then turn around and say OOPS we over looked it. This is funny cause joseph, you too flip flopped on the Green Grass Monk issue yourself. and you're still telling me the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon needs to listen to the Chan Fam about OUR history?????? funny!!!!


Have you been to Jeung Ah Yim's village? Have you met any of his descendants if he was married and had two kids?

Nah, but DFW has, and tells me that they have nothing about they ancestor. But, Jeung Hung Sing had many students who would tell the history correctly....people like Professor Lau Bun have passed down the history to us about his "SIGUNG" who was Jeung Hung Sing. Chan Ngau Sing's true blood line still exists, and the truth is still passed down within the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon.

Just because Chan Yiu Chi finally got to writing down the history, doesn't mean he got it right. remember, your own chan family is TORN on whether the fact that the green grass monk was real or a myth created by the Hung Sing people.


You don't have to trust me, but at least what I said you could look it up. Can we do the same from what you've told us? The answer is a resounding no!

Once my book comes out, people will be able to go to the bibliography and find out the information that i have for themselves. Information, very detailed information about the Green Grass Monk will readily be available for you.

Like is said joseph........when your chan family said the green grass monk didn't exist in THEIR archives, which they STILL CLAIM TILL THIS DAY.......I have......

1. The Chinese Characters for Ching Cho's Shaolin Temple name.....
2. The 4 names of the Green Grass Monk
3. The flags used by the Green Grass Monk's Triad Lodge
4. The name of Ching Cho's lodge....as well as the other 4 Monk's lodges as well
5. I can even tell you HOW the Green Grass Monk got his name.
6. I can answer with evidence to Jeung Yim's HUNG SING and its connection to
the Hung Mun.
7. I got more than ONE artistic depiction of the Green Grass Monk.
8. I know which of the 5 Animals represents the Green Grass Monk.
9. Can tell you the body posture that represents the Green Grass Monk.
10. Can tell you that the Green Grass Monk was one of the most feared agitators
of the Qing Empire, and had one of the largest and most powerful lodges in
ALL of southern China.
11. I can tell you with great confidence why Jeung Hung Sing chose to change his
name from Hung Victory to Glorious Victory.

come on now joseph.......joseph.......i've seen YOU flip flop, I've seen DFW Flip Flip, THAT mixed with the fact that it wasn't the first, or second generation but the third generation master Chan Yiu Chi is the one who wrote or RE wrote OUR history is enough for me to NOT TRUST family archives that are NOT directly related to my lineage!!!

[CLFNole]

Ah UNITY, all for one and one for all, right? Wait wrong story. The idea of unity is nice but it doesn't work in politics and throughout the world, why would anyone think it will really work with CLF? The idea is nice but then again the idea of a utopian society is also nice but will never happen outside of some hippy farm in the middle of nowhere.

[sean_stonehart]

Look what happened to Thomas Moore...

[hskwarrior]

if you're gonna point fingers, point them at our brother JOSEPH....


All i did was mention SSYG......and JOSEPH'S hating arse always follows me like a puppy dog nipping at my heels.....

[hskwarrior]

The CONCEPT of Sam Sing Yat Ga is one that will NOT take place in this generations, but there are those who COMPLETELY support the movement, and will pass that on to the NEXT generations of CLF folks.

I don't care if it happens in MY lifetime, but as long is it does........

people like joseph is hell bent on debunking Fut San History......because the more our history is known, the more people realize just how important Jeung Hung Sing was in the CLF lineage.

and of course Lance would always have to come in with his MESS, never to say anything good.....always the skeptic. :D

[CLFNole]

I'm just keeping it real and calling it like I see it. Everyone has his or her own adgenda to push for good or bad. The main thing that will prevent "unity" in CLF, politics or whatever is egos and the mine is bigger than yours mentality. Its human nature afterall and been going on since the beginning of time.

[hskwarrior]

i'm just keeping it real

what are you keeping real?


Everyone has his or her own adgenda to push for good or bad.

YEAH, I GOT GOOD INTENTIONS.....ACTUAL HUNG SING PEOPLE FEEL WHAT I'M DOING IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR OUR BRANCH.

[CLFNole]

What is "real" is that people will use the guise of "unity" for their own purpose and to push whatever adgenda they want (CLF, politics, whatever). The concept is nice but true intentions generally lie beneath the surface.

[hskwarrior]

Yes

The doors of Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon HAS opened up wide. And, yes Jeung Hung Sing is one of the more famous fighters of his time, with a history NO ONE can deny or sweep under the rug. With what is KNOWN today, it is clear that ANOTHER CLF Summit needs to take place in regards to history. Once it gets straightened out, then maybe CLF will be united.

The diversity of CLF will never be celebrated because of EGO. This is the reason why my sifu has dropped the name of Choy Lee Fut, and returned to using "HUNG SING KUEN" since what we do is Hung Sing's Choy Lee Fut. But, there is a reason behind it......

Without mentioning names, certain members of the Chan Fam, one in particular though, has told not only told my sisook's in the past, but he also told MY sifu that what we were practicing WASN'T clf at all. Can U believe that? A chan family member saying something hurtful, insulting, rude? Nah, my sifu and elders must have been mistaken. :confused:

Then we have joseph, who doesn't have any answers, but ALWAYS disputes anything coming from the Fut San Hung Sing people. I don't blame my sifu for wanting to shake the nasty vibes of what comes out of the Chan Family side of Choy Lee Fut (not all are bad mind you. some are very cool people and willing to listen and be open).

Yeah, it IS my Hung Sing history. BUT it's the history of EVERY FUT SAN HUNG SING KWOON related school. OUR people are excited to know that our history is strong. And when my book comes out, many will see what i'm talking about. and then we will always have THOSE who are skeptical no matter what gets presented....they'd made up their minds beyond return.

Exhaust it? No. It won't get exhausted. We are only beginning.

[hskwarrior]

What is "real" is that people will use the guise of "unity" for their own purpose and to push whatever adgenda they want (CLF, politics, whatever). The concept is nice but true intentions generally lie beneath the surface.

True, that's why i'm PERFECTLY content knowing that my sole purpose was to uncover our history as true as we can get it. I never gave up my passion to know my branches history. today, i got more than i could have ever imagined for. So, my word to haters is.........."hate all you want. When people said I would never uncover anything.......well, i think i've proved you wrong, so i can see why you're hating."

[hskwarrior]

nicely put troy

[extrajoseph]

Hi Frank,

You may not realize this but I am helping you to find the real history of Jeung Ah Yim. Since he started off with Chan Heung, therefore the Chan family is where you should begin your search.

I am not denying his importance in the development of CLF, nor am I against the idea of Sam Sing Ya Ga, I just think you need to take all sides into consideration before you make your own conclusions because of the diversity of CLF. Every time I read you and your so-called latest "discovery", I burst out :D at your naivety and lack of scholarship.

CLFNoble is right you know, everyone has his or her agenda, so you have to go below the smoke screen to find what lies behind and often it is bitter and personal and there is no Thomas Moore in sight...

XJ





people like joseph is hell bent on debunking Fut San History......because the more our history is known, the more people realize just how important Jeung Hung Sing was in the CLF lineage.

and of course Lance would always have to come in with his MESS, never to say anything good.....always the skeptic. :D

[hskwarrior]

Joseph.....

Please, with an open mind listen......

YOUR records say "Jeung Hung Sing Re-opens in 1867" and does not say when he was actually training with him. This has been verified with the Chan Yong Fa's people, and i was told "Yes a history book written by Chan Heurng about his disciples before he died states that in the in the year 1867 the "Hung Sing school of Jeurng Ah Yim is reopened. Jeurng Ah Yim followed Chan Heurng before this period but the age at which Jeurng Ah Yim studied under Chan Heurng is not recorded. Choy fook lived and trained a number of students including Chan Heurng in the Heavenly king Temple on the middle mountain of the mountains at Luofu shan. This mountain range was at the time covered with at least 30 or so Temples/sites. The site by the way was for military acces only whan I went there last. There was a tree that marked the passage that said Chang Sher- "green book" This is the only reference to "Green" in the history."

NOT ONLY THAT JOSEPH.....but this too:

4. Yes to my knowledge there is no mention of the Ching Cho monk in the written history compiled by Chan Heurng and his sons. This is not to say that he did not exist, but rather ther is no mention of any influence in the creation of CLF. I dare not guess/assume anymore as it is well known that Jeurng Ah Yim was a great Choy Lee fut master with outstanding disciples so if the Fut Shan records say 1851 it refers to Jeurng Ah Yim school.


Now, Jeung Hung Sing's history follows a specific time line, which includes that of the Green Grass Monk. Our FUT SAN history is more in tune with the Green Grass Monk than it is with Chan Heung's family.

In MY opinion, Jeung Hung Sing is like a sandwhich with Chan Heung's being the bread, but the meat of the sandwhich is ALL GREEN GRASS MONK. And one of those peaces of bread is a combo of Chan Heung and Jeung Hung Sing. Chan Heung is only solo on one piece of bread. But, what's important is the MEAT INSIDE.........

[hskwarrior]

I burst out at your naivety and lack of scholarship.

AND YOU FLIP FLOPPED OVER THE GREEN GRASS MONK THING...............

(which means you don't really know anything now do you?) :D

:D and THAT makes me :D at your lack of information.

JOSEPH......even if i gave you some of my sources in regards to the Hung Mun, you wouldn't even know what to look for.

[hskwarrior]

Joseph

-Jeung Yim trained with Chan Heung for 5 years (1836-1841). He was 12 years old.

- Jeung Yim trained with the Green Grass Monk for 8 years (1841-1849)

- Some time between 1867 and 1875 Jeung Hung Sing aka Jeung Yim returns to
Chan Heung where he shares what he learned with his former sifu. Although
evidence outside of Chan Ga CLF basics are NOT found inside of Jeung Hung Sing's gung fu material, yet, evidence of Jeung Hung Sing's gung fu IS found in Chan Heung's later material.

- From 1851-1867 Jeung Hung Sing DID NOT have anything to do with Chan Heung since the school he opened was in direct order of the Green Grass Monk. And Chan Family archives do not contain any information to the contrary. The archives do NOT closely, nor ACCURATELY place Jeung Hung Sing in the right place.

- We've asked Chan Family people "How did Jeung Yim get the name of Hung
Sing? No answer. Your Hung Sing and MY Hung Sing were NOT the same HUNG
SING's.

- The Green Grass Monk. YOU (joseph) or whoever you really are...fought me tooth and nail over the green grass monk long ago. But This year you flip flopped and claimed that YOU saw actual RECORDS of the Green Grass Monk being the identity of Choy Fook.

And you have the nerve to tell me that i should check with the Chan Family since Jeung Hung Sing learned from him first? well, Chan Heung was Jeung Hung Sing's SECOND teacher....and......you guys can't even tell me when Jeung Hung Sing WAS a student of Chan Heung.

DO YOU GET WHY I DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO YOUR FAMILY ARCHIVES? BECAUSE I WILL ALWAYS CHECK MY FAMILY'S ARCHIVES, MEMORIES, OR WHAT EVER FIRST. THEN I WILL CHECK YOURS. AND THIS I'M FINDING WAS THE RIGHT ROUTE TO GO.

[Monkey Magic]

By: tungmojingjung
Ying Hung Tong

“Hey Frank, how's it going.

It's too bad the diversity of Choy Lee Fut can't be truly celebrated and respected, because in the end that's truly what it is a very diverse system of martial skills.

One banner sort of speaking (CHOY LEE FUT) with different entities like Buk Sing, Hung Sing and Chan Family. Each having their own pivotal role in the promotion of that diverse nature of skills that should be respected as their own separate entity.”

“Shifu Frank post
Yes

The doors of Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon HAS opened up wide. And, yes Jeung Hung Sing is one of the more famous fighters of his time, with a history NO ONE can deny or sweep under the rug. With what is KNOWN today, it is clear that ANOTHER CLF Summit needs to take place in regards to history. Once it gets straightened out, then maybe CLF will be united.

The diversity of CLF will never be celebrated because of EGO. This is the reason why my sifu has dropped the name of Choy Lee Fut, and returned to using "HUNG SING KUEN" since what we do is Hung Sing's Choy Lee Fut. But, there is a reason behind it......”

Frank you a true blood Hung Shing Kuen man! This is good and proud!
In opinion of me, You history is accurate and true as you dates all match.
Why you push unity? Sounds more like you push to say to all that they must become Hung Shen Kuen? No need
If people refer to style as Cai Li Fo and then can say I am Hunng Shen Kuen, Buk Sin Kuen, Chan Family Cai Li fo them why problem?

Example weng chun is weng chun but some come from Fut Sun, Some come from Wong Sheng Leung Shefu, Leung Ting Shefu branch, William Cheung Line branch.... As you can see still Weng Chun but really who will lead? This movement must have president etc and all will fight for position because ego or most will say hey this not working lets agree to disagree but continue being Weng Chun...

Same with Cai Li fo... who will be president or leader? you? Your Shifu?

Why not Master Yong Fa? Master Wong Tat Mau from Master Lee Koon Hung Line lead? Master Joe Keit Leader?

Maybe Buk Sing Lai Wing Sun Fremont lead? Maybe even Plum Blossom Federation Doc Fai Wong lead?

You idea to be happy family is good. I agree happy family with 3 different Branches will work..

Like Happy world.. Europe, Asia, Americas, Australasia, with all different countries within and we all somehow try to get along but not change who we are...

Eg: You American, Extrajoseph Australia?, Blah blah from Spain spanish..

[hskwarrior]

It is without a doubt that the Choy Lee Fut style-regardless of who created it first-is one of the most famous and saught after styles of Chinese martial arts taught around the world today. In the bigger scheme of things, who was first, how many forms, and other mind numbing ideas can only cause harm to our families. What should matter more is "how good is your Choy Lee Fut?" As well as what we are doing to promote our great system. Each branch has made major contributions to Choy Lee Fut, and each branch has "their" story to be told.

As it stands, there are 3 branches of the Choy Lee Fut system. Each branch-Great Sage Hung 洪聖 (Xiong Sing), Hung Sing Kwoon 洪勝 / 鴻勝 (Hung / Glorious Victory) and the Buk Sing Kwoon 北勝 (Northern Victory) is linked together by Choy Lee Fut's "Root" techniques such as Kum Na Kwa Sau Chop Biu Jong Pow Kup and Ding.

Aside from these "Root Techniques" each branch teaches different material specific to each branch which is not taught in other branches (with the exception of the first two forms of the Buk Sing Kwoon-Ping Kuen and Kau Da Kuen which are from the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon). Although each branch teaches different material is it unfair to say one or the other is not Choy Lee Fut because it's not taught by Chan Heung.

Although the same sets are not taught in each branch, from these roots rose gung fu from such great masters as Chan Heung, Jeong Hung Sing, and Tam Sam. And that is the reason why I believe in the "3 Families of Choy Lee Fut."

Hopefully in the future we would see Choy Lee Fut taught based off of all 3 branches with all they have to offer, which i hope will bring much unity from all our great families.---

[hskwarrior]

here was a tree that marked the passage that said Chang Sher- "green book" This is the only reference to "Green" in the history."


Case in point. the above information came from the Chan Yong Fa people, which is an admission the family archives DO NOT MENTION the GREEN GRASS MONK. SO, i wonder what's gonna happen to those students that now think Choy Fook is the Green Grass Monk? What will they do when they discover they've been hoodwinked?

As i've stated so many times before, the Hung Sing people of the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon will follow OUR OWN history as it was and is passed down to us through our lineage. Chan Family archives will only be used to see what Chan Heung had to say......and now i can't lie, i'm interested in seeing what Chan Yiu Chi did have to say about Jeung Hung sing. I'd love to see how the story gets twisted during the third generation.

This is the reason that a new historical Research summit should take place where the knowledge of today can be inserted into what was previously known. The pieces to the puzzle are finding their places, and if nothing gets done, we all stand on PAUSE...........

only then can SAM SING YAT GA truly take place.

[Firehawk4]

Can you guys tell me what a style of Choy Li Fut called Cho Gar Family Choy Li Fut from Pun Yu Canton if this is a fourth Branch of Choy Li Fut ? Cho Gar also has Cho Gar Family Wing Chun and some of the sets in this Wing Chun is Choy Li Fut . But they also have a Choy Li Fut style called Cho Gar Choy Li Fut they even have a Hung Gar Style from this Pun Yu villiage in Canton Chinia .

[hskwarrior]

thats a new one to me.

[Ben Gash]

Can you guys tell me what a style of Choy Li Fut called Cho Gar Family Choy Li Fut from Pun Yu Canton if this is a fourth Branch of Choy Li Fut ? Cho Gar also has Cho Gar Family Wing Chun and some of the sets in this Wing Chun is Choy Li Fut . But they also have a Choy Li Fut style called Cho Gar Choy Li Fut they even have a Hung Gar Style from this Pun Yu villiage in Canton Chinia .

It sounds like a village style. Small villages used to have their resident martial arts teacher, to train their youth and help them form militias to fight off bandits. These teachers were often itinerent in their youth (Chan Tai San's biography is a good example of this type of practitioner) and studied bit's of several systems from teachers they met and respected (CTS's story moves away here as he then specialised in one system). They then taught a variety of skills when they settled down in a village. I used to study a village system which was primarily Choy Li Fut and 5 animals Sil Lum, but also had forms from Mok Gar, Jow Gar, Lama and others.
The Choy Li Fut was interesting. It was supposed to be from one of the other 18 original disciples (can't remember which) and in retrospect, some forms were very similar to the stuff I associate now with Chan On Pak and some with Chan Koon Pak.

[hskwarrior]

The early days of CLF was really flexible. The Chan Fam says that in Chan Heung's days, the forms were never written down. But, senior students who owned other schools taught NEWER forms, and CHAN family CLF would travel amongst these schools to p[ick up new forms.

that explains why some many different chan family schools have same set names, but different material.