Re: Dale and Terence

[Phil Redmond]

Re: Dale and Terence.
Terence in particular can be annoying but regardless of what people
here on the forum may think about Dale aka Knifefighter and Terence I have to say that they both have some very good points regarding realistic training. Most TMAs don't think outside the box. This is defininelty true about "most" WC people. There is too much sifu sez and not enough free thinking and experimentation. In TWC one of the requirements for Master level is to develop a training method or technique either unarmed or using a weapon.
Yeah, I know that that sounds so sacrilegious :D
Most of the old guard famous WC Sifus have NEVER fought. My kung fu brother John Clayton asked one if he'd ever fought and he said no. Now I would never want to learn to shoot from someone who'd never felt the recoil of a firearm. I'd never want to learn to swim from someone who never been in the water but that's just me. The bottom line is that if you don't "fight" outside of your safe environment with friends and classmates you'll have a hard time dealing with people trying to bust you up for real. I can say this because I've been there. Dale has been there so imagine what he thinks about people who haven't been there but say this and that will work. I think the same thing.
Now I know that people get into the "Martial" arts for different reasons. It could be for health, fitness, or just to belong to something different but the operative word in martial art
is "martial" (war). Anyone who says you can learn Trumpet. Piano, Baskeball, Fencing, Hockey, etc, without playing isn't simply dilusional. Thus, you can't learn fighting without . . . . . . . . . .

[k gledhill]

Agreed , but sometime its just the general air of telling us we all suck....:D

[anerlich]

Dale makes T and his demented evangelism and Matt Thornton regurgitation redundant, and I'm sure Dale himself will tire of T's jockriding before long, like the rest of us.

[Ultimatewingchun]

Dale makes T and his demented evangelism and Matt Thornton regurgitation redundant, and I'm sure Dale himself will tire of T's jockriding before long, like the rest of us.

***ANERLICH has hit the correct.

I guess you've been watchin' Pres Obama drinking some beers and had a thought, huh Phil?

Nice try, but Terence is seriously over-the-top.

[Pacman]

Most of the old guard famous WC Sifus have NEVER fought.

your point in particular is very true and is a result of WCs popularity and other things including the chinese culture toward respect for elders...which allows sifus with no knowledge to get away with stuff

in any case, there are things that niehoff and dale say about training that i agree with and some things i dont.

the problem is that once you disagree you automatically don't know squat. you don't know as much as either of them because one has an underground fight club full of top notch fighters and the other one is a world champion cage fighter.

they say a lot of things and they have some good insight, but they also have some fundamental misunderstandings (at least IMO) of what constitutes "traditional" CMA and IMA training.

[Phil Redmond]

***ANERLICH . . .I guess you've been watchin' Pres Obama drinking some beers and had a thought, huh Phil? . . . .

That was a good one Vic. :D

[grasshopper 2.0]

I agree Phil. It would be nice get more insight, helpful hints, etc from you, these guys, and anyone else with the fighting experience. The posts seem to come down to "try against an willing partner" or "body mechanics" - but there is no how, or "its been my experience that this works or that works" or "this is how I practice chi sao to provide such and such an effect" - I get the message, and nor do I care if it seems like the "rest of suck" - I just want to know how I can incorporate what they've learned (mistakes, progress) into my own training...

It's not like we are trading stocks, or fighting each other - I think we can all benefit from each other's insight.

For myself, I'm trying to figure out what real wing chun should look like. I think it would be great for those that have the experience and opportunity to fight against non wc people to post videos. I'm not here to judge, and it will help provide me insight on my own journey and context to your material in the forums.

Why not set aside our egos for the betterment of the art? Why not provide some "how to" tips rather than the big picture ideas. I think we get it - now we just need to know how to get it.

[goju]

lets just pin terrence down and f art on him

[JPinAZ]

Another issue with Dale: Even with all his fight experience, he has openly admited his distain for WCK and how much he thinks it a waste of time. So, his posting here is obviolus only to troll and tear down people that study WCK. I think this is the problem many here see with him is he's a non or ex-WCK guy that couldn't make his stuff work and now here to tell us how we all must suck like he did.

For T, he is also just a guy that after studying WCK for so many years, simply could not make it work either (and is obviously bitter about it).
He is probably the result of either A, being a poor student or B, having a poor techer(s). While he does get some credit for going out and trying to increase his overall fight game by trying other methods, what he will find out one day is, his 'new and improved' WCK training methods and sparring against "competent opponents" is really nothing new to WCK or anything else. It's just his old, poor methods of training WCK that failed him. Unfortunately, he just that he had to learn it the long route...

[goju]

Another issue with Dale: Even with all his fight experience, he has openly admited his distain for WCK and how much he thinks it a waste of time. So, his posting here is obviolus only to troll and tear down people that study WCK. I think this is the problem many here see with him is he's a non or ex-WCK guy that couldn't make his stuff work and now here to tell us how we all must suck like he did.

For T, he is also just a guy that after studying WCK for so many years, simply could not make it work either (and is obviously bitter about it).
He is probably the result of either A, being a poor student or B, having a poor techer(s). While he does get some credit for going out and trying to increase his overall fight game by trying other methods, what he will find out one day is, his 'new and improved' WCK training methods and sparring against "competent opponents" is really nothing new to WCK or anything else. It's just his old, poor methods of training WCK that failed him. Unfortunately, he just that he had to learn it the long route...
yeah but who knows how good of afighter he even is those could have been some of the worst fights in the world he was in for all we know google the guy and you cant find nada on him so...................
and besides the fact that he keeps using this to make him seem like he knows more thna the other posters on here says hes not much

[sanjuro_ronin]

While I can see some having issues with T base don the simple fact that he talks way too much compared to what anyone has seen him do, Dale is another issue altogether.
Dale is a 2nd BB in BJJ
An original dog brother.
Has fought full contact in Asia and here, trained in MT and pretty much any system that is full contact.
He has fought in no rules Vale tudo, yes the ones with biting and eye gouging allowed.
The man is older than Metheusela and twice as dusty.
The simple fact that he can whip 99% of the people here and has been doing FULL CONTACT MA loner than some have been alive, requires that as a fighter AND a MA he deserves to have his views respected, he speaks from 100% experience.
And I don't even like him very much.
:p

[goju]

thats a rather broad assumption he could wup 99 percent of the arse here i think

[sanjuro_ronin]

thats a rather broad assumption he could wup 99 percent of the arse here i think

No, its not.

[Pacman]

While I can see some having issues with T base don the simple fact that he talks way too much compared to what anyone has seen him do, Dale is another issue altogether.
Dale is a 2nd BB in BJJ
An original dog brother.
Has fought full contact in Asia and here, trained in MT and pretty much any system that is full contact.
He has fought in no rules Vale tudo, yes the ones with biting and eye gouging allowed.
The man is older than Metheusela and twice as dusty.
The simple fact that he can whip 99% of the people here and has been doing FULL CONTACT MA loner than some have been alive, requires that as a fighter AND a MA he deserves to have his views respected, he speaks from 100% experience.
And I don't even like him very much.
:p

im sure he is a tough SOB with experience...but who the hell knows how good he is. and even if he was good at what he did. experience and toughness does not guarantee skill or knowledge

on top of that, often times we discuss WC which he doesnt know much about

so im not saying to disrespect him, but his experience does not give him a free pass to condescend to us all. i know he probably thinks it does.

[goju]

from what i hear hes a good grappler with okay stand up
hardly entitles him to act like a twat waffle

[anerlich]

It would be nice get more insight, helpful hints, etc from you, these guys, and anyone else with the fighting experience.

Why do you think Terence has any noteworthy experience? Other than at keyboard bil jee?

[Wayfaring]

Re: Dale and Terence
I don't have any issues with either Dale or T. If I was closer to either I'm sure I'd stop by to roll with them. Anyone who's done functional fighting application of WC would be fun to train with. And I love to roll with as many BJJ black belts as I can.

But since they don't reside close I have to resign myself to arguing with them on the internet.

[Frost]

im sure he is a tough SOB with experience...but who the hell knows how good he is. and even if he was good at what he did. experience and toughness does not guarantee skill or knowledge

on top of that, often times we discuss WC which he doesnt know much about

so im not saying to disrespect him, but his experience does not give him a free pass to condescend to us all. i know he probably thinks it does.

The fact he has fought and won in full contact competition tends to suggest he is fairly good and has skill to go along with his experience, and you do not become a purple belt in BJJ without being good, let alone a 2nd degree black belt. That’s the good thing with performance based arts it doesn’t matter if he had been doing BJJ for 20 years, if he was crap at it he would still be a white or blue belt, the fact he has advanced through the belts and is now a black belt tells everyone who knows anything about BJJ that he has real skill and knowledge.

Its the same with the dog brothers stuff, you do not become a dog brother without being a good fighter and showing fighting spirit, again it doesn’t matter how long you have been with them, unless you are good you don’t become a member of the pack

Also I believe he studied wing chun for 4 or 5 years , and if victor with his DVD training can comment on grappling, then Dale with a few years actual training with a coach can certainly comment on Wing Chun


from what i hear hes a good grappler with okay stand up
hardly entitles him to act like a twat waffle

Okay stand up? If I remember correctly he was an amateur Thai boxing champion in the states and went to Japan to fight the pro fighters back in the day and trained at the top gyms over there, so that’s someone with just ok stand-up?

And where did you here he had just ok stand up? From Victor? There’s an impartial viewpoint for you

[Mr Punch]

yeah but who knows how good of afighter he even is those could have been some of the worst fights in the world he was in for all we know google the guy and you cant find nada on him so...Can't find nada?

In three minutes on Google I got his homepage including his weekly work schedule (admittedly little about his fighting record), his World Grappling League record and world ranking (placing 4th, 4th, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd in his individual tournaments), blah blah blah, it's all out there. Where are you?

[Yoshiyahu]

I don't have any issues with either Dale or T. If I was closer to either I'm sure I'd stop by to roll with them. Anyone who's done functional fighting application of WC would be fun to train with. And I love to roll with as many BJJ black belts as I can.

But since they don't reside close I have to resign myself to arguing with them on the internet.

I reside close to Terrence. But he will not touch hands with me. If I pay a $10 fee I can train with one of his buddies who never talked too before. But as for him he is elusive. I don't think he would even allow you to spar him if you were in the STL either. Mostly alot of hot air. But hey if you come to STL pay $10 so you can spar him!

[Wayfaring]

I reside close to Terrence. But he will not touch hands with me. If I pay a $10 fee I can train with one of his buddies who never talked too before. But as for him he is elusive. I don't think he would even allow you to spar him if you were in the STL either. Mostly alot of hot air. But hey if you come to STL pay $10 so you can spar him!

$10 is less than the mat fee you pay to train BJJ in most places. It's the price of a movie. I would pay it and check them out.

[goju]

Can't find nada?

In three minutes on Google I got his homepage including his weekly work schedule (admittedly little about his fighting record), his World Grappling League record and world ranking (placing 4th, 4th, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd in his individual tournaments), blah blah blah, it's all out there. Where are you?
fun he tosses his fighting bullocks on here though aint it?
so what hes a grappler big deal im not impressed with a grappler talking about wing chun its not his area of expertise

[Yoshiyahu]

$10 is less than the mat fee you pay to train BJJ in most places. It's the price of a movie. I would pay it and check them out.


Why not meet me at the park. Why pay ten dollars at a Facility that doesn't allow sparring or sprawling????

[Wayfaring]

Why not meet me at the park. Why pay ten dollars at a Facility that doesn't allow sparring or sprawling????

The time I'm spending debating this stupid point with you is worth more than $10. Part of training outside your own group / gym is paying mat fees. Gyms usually provide legal protection with signed waivers. And places to change.

I don't know all your particulars. But I'll spend my $10 in mat fees rather than my time arguing the point with you.

[Yoshiyahu]

The time I'm spending debating this stupid point with you is worth more than $10. Part of training outside your own group / gym is paying mat fees. Gyms usually provide legal protection with signed waivers. And places to change.

I don't know all your particulars. But I'll spend my $10 in mat fees rather than my time arguing the point with you.

Well if thats the case. Then the guy could meet me at a MMA school if he liked. But the guy who I am to meet is someone other than Terrence. I would love to spar Terrence someday.