TMA Full Contact event in NYC

[Phil Redmond]

Novell G. Bell, Sharif Bey, Richard Garcia Presents:
All Traditional Martial Art free fighting Tournament (Full-contact)
All styles welcome:

Date: Saturday, September 26, 2009
Time: 9:30am - 12:30pm
Location: Ultimate Karate DoJo 1950 3rdAve 107st, NY, NY (212-426-4666)


Saturday September 26, 2009 Pre-Registration $50.00 by Sept.15 $65.00 day of the event.

All prospective fighters must submit the following information:
NAME
SCHOOL/STYLE
AGE
WEIGHT
HEIGHT
YRS. EXPERIENCE

and send via email to sharifbey21@yahoo.com as soon as possible for consideration.

The center referee and the referee general have the authority to DQ any fighter at any time.
The center referee, the referee general, the fight doctor and EMT staff have the authority to stop the fight at anytime.

Weight Classes: (lbs)
Lightweight C- 105.6
Lightweight B – 105.82 – 114.4
Lightweight A - 114.62 – 123.2
Middleweight C – 123.42 – 132
Middleweight A – 142.22 – 154
Heavyweight C – 154.22 – 165
Heavyweight B – 165.22 – 176
Heavyweight A – 176.22 – 187
Infinite Weight - 187

To submit due to strikes or a lock a fighter must rapidly tap his open hand against any solid surface in view of the referee.

Corners:
Fighters will be designated as either Blue or Yellow by a colored sash. Each fighter is allowed 2 cornermen (1st and assistant). If at any time either cornerman steps onto the Lei Tai without express permission from the center referee or referee general their fighter will instantly be DQd.

Conduct: Fighters and cornermen are expected to be professional, calm and sportsmanlike at all times. Fighters can receive fouls or become DQd anytime they, their cornermen or anyone affiliated with them deviates from these expectations. The judges, center referee, referee general, promoters, the competing fighter and everyone in attendance are to be respected at all times. Fighters, cornermen, coaches and teammates are to exemplify Wu De/Mo Duk (martial virtue) at all times.

Grappling: Grappling, throwing and joint locking are allowed. A 10 second count will be initiated once fighters begin grappling on their feet. If the fighters do not separate and neither fighter falls at the end of the count they will be separated and the round will continue. If both fighters fall to the floor and continue grappling a new 10 count will begin. (E.g. Fighters grapple for 4 seconds before Yellow throws Blue to the ground. Yellow follows Blue to the floor to pursue a lock. Referee begins new 10 count.) Joint locks may not be applied to a standing opponent. Submissions may occur from the floor through the execution of joint lock techniques, chokes (locking the fingers around the throat is not allowed) or successive strikes. The same legal striking areas and techniques apply to the floor. Fighters will be stood-up if there is no submission or knockout in 10 seconds.

An unintentional illegal strike resulting in the knockout or injury of an opponent will result in a draw.
If 4 or more consecutive, unanswered strikes are completed to the head by one fighter the referee will separate the fighters and evaluate the condition of the fighter being struck. If at anytime a fighter exhibits signs of being concussed, injured, outmatched or unwilling to fight this will result in TKO.

Scoring: Judges will award one score for a strike to a legal area which visibly affects the other fighter (creates tremble, moves body.) Two scores are awarded if the strike significantly staggers or knocks down the opponent. Two scores for a throw or takedown. No scores are awarded for a slip. A fighter receives three scores for knocking an opponent off the Lei Tai while he remains. No scores are awarded if both fighters fall to the platform. A fighter who is knocked to the floor three times in one round will be TKOd.

Finger and toenails must be kept short and will be inspected prior to the fight.

Rules
To win: Fighters can win through accumulating more points than their opponent after three rounds, knockout, submission or overpowering them to such an extent that the referee declares a mismatch and stops the fight. Excessive bleeding or significant injury occurring from a legal technique will result in TKO.

Techniques and Fouls: Arm and leg techniques (including elbows and knees) are allowed to any part of the body except: the eyes, knees, toes, throat, groin, spine and back of head. Headbutts, eye gouging and fingernail clawing are not allowed. Unintentional strikes to illegal areas will result in a one point round penalty to the violator. Any strike to an illegal area which is deemed to be intentional by the referee may result in automatic DQ. Fighters struck in illegal areas will be given 5 minutes to recover.

Fighter Attire
Fighters will only compete with the following items: headgear, 6 ounce fingerless gloves, athletic shorts, undershorts, groin cup and mouthpiece. All items are mandatory. Fighters will not be allowed to compete if they lack any items. Fighters wearing anything more will automatically be disqualified. Shorts may not contain any padding, have loose stings or metal adornments and must be constructed from soft, athletic material. Shoes, shirts, tape or wraps of any kind are not allowed and will result in automatic DQ. Wearing gloves weighing less than 6 ounces will result in DQ. Vaseline application to the fighter’s face for the protection from cuts is mandatory. Vaseline use is restricted to the face and if any is present on any other part of the fighter’s body they are DQ’d. Fighter’s attire and gear will be inspected prior to each fight and may be subject to DQ at any time for a violation of these rules.

Judging
Four ring judges score the fight. One center referee will enforce rules, conduct the fight and give commands to the fighters. A referee general administrates over the fight, judges and center referee.
Fights will be composed of three, 90-second rounds using the ten point must system, with one minute rest between rounds. Ring judges attribute scores to fighters for successful application of legal fighting techniques and subtract round points for fouls. Judges then indicate the winner of the round based on total allocation of scores and overall performance (ring control, aggressiveness.) Winner of each round receives 10 round points. Loser receives 8.

Bows: Upon reaching their corners fighter will follow all traditional Lei Tai instructions being given by the center referee. Fighters must wait for the referee’s permission to both enter and exit the Lei Tai.

[WinterPalm]

Sounds like a step in the right direction for TCMA. I like the 10 count stuff that promotes the fast throwing and, I guess now, the fast submitting!

[Lama Pai Sifu]

In NYC? Uh...isn't this considered MMA? Striking and Submissions? And illegal in NY State?

Am I missing something here?

[taai gihk yahn]

I was thinking the same thing...

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Why not just cross the bridge and do it in NJ? MMA is legal there. :confused:

[taai gihk yahn]

I was also a bit surprised that the "unlimited" weight class starts at only 187 lbs. - is it me, or does that seem a bit low (maybe I'm wrong)

[TenTigers]

no women's division?
Could you be less specific about the headgear? (jkn)

[mickey]

Greetings,

This reads good though it is not exclusive to Chinese martial arts.

mickey

[uki]

tis tempting... one of my ex-friends, ex-co-workers, patrick brady(who won like five gold medals in the lei tai - including one fought in brazil) was going to be my corner man in a maryland lei tai event a few years ago, but we had a falling out and i ran him off our job to the extent that he quit and i never got around to going... we needed health insurance to participate... i like the lei tai concept because you can knock them off the raised platform for points.... he fought in the infinite division.

[uki]

actually i take back the part about him not being my friend... we did apologize to each other, but i haven't seen him in a few years now.

[Pork Chop]

Pat "sumo" Brady is one of the guys I always wanted to fight in lei tai.



I have a feeling that this TMA event will get shut down.

[uki]

Pat "sumo" Brady is one of the guys I always wanted to fight in lei tai.dude... i got him a job with me, he labored for our masonry company... that guy ate asprin in the morning and wore a back brace at work... he might have won a few gold medals, but i called him out on the job for slacking and he quit after threatening me and i simply told him to effing touch me... LOL... he didn't and left. he treats his wife like a piece of poop... he really has a bad attitude problem... seriously, i am not lying.

[Pork Chop]

my comment's more along the lines that the only times i've ever seen that guy fight, he relied on sumoing other dudes off the lei tai.... the whole fight....

[uki]

my comment's more along the lines that the only times i've ever seen that guy fight, he relied on sumoing other dudes off the lei tai.... the whole fight....he's definitely not dumb... and standing at almost 6'4" and weighing in somewhere around 200lbs, he definitely uses his mass and presence to his advantage, but judging from his work ethnic, i don't see him having a heavy fist... spends more time yapping on the cell phone or just yapping in general on how he can beat everyone up that is around him... he once bragged how he beat up some guy for owing him a dollar. :D

[lkfmdc]

I pretty much love all formats of fighting, but I also hate getting in trouble with the law, especially something potentially a FELONY :eek:

MY professional opinion, having been in the trenches against the NY commission since 2002, is that they would consider this illegal and shut it down.

Even at the unfortunate event of my friend's funneral, the talk was that the new NY commissioner has come in with the specific agenda of shutting down all unregulated, unsanctioned shows

Best of luck, but be forewarned

[uki]

Even at the unfortunate event of my friend's funneral, the talk was that the new NY commissioner has come in with the specific agenda of shutting down all unregulated, unsanctioned shows.simply because there is no money to be made by the state from it.

[lkfmdc]

simply because there is no money to be made by the state from it.

you should really stick to things you know about....

what is it you actually know something about? :rolleyes:

[uki]

you should really stick to things you know about....it's all about money bub... this much i know - same reason pot is illegal, same reason herbal medicines are becoming illegal, same reason for everything the local, state, or federal government gets involved with - they want a slice of the pie or there is no bake sale. period.


what is it you actually know something about?my understanding would short circuit your small fuse box pal. :p

[lkfmdc]

Do you ever post something that contributes to this forum? :rolleyes:

Do you want to know why unregulared shows are bad? Not a huge goverment conspiracy, not aliens, not forced vaccinations :rolleyes:

They are dangerous
NO insurance to proctect fighters
Often no weigh ins
Often gross mis-matches
Often no safety rules
Poorly trained refs. or no refs at all
NO reporting of injuries to commission
there is actually A LONG LIST

really, your glip, uninformed statements are a waste of time, can't you find something else to do except take up space here?

[uki]

Do you ever post something that contributes to this forum? of course, you're just too blind to see it. :)


They are dangerous
NO insurance to proctect fighters
Often no weigh ins
Often gross mis-matches
Often no safety rules
Poorly trained refs. or no refs at all
NO reporting of injuries to commission
there is actually A LONG LISTam i supposed to have pity on egocentric guys and gals that feel the need to prove themselves all the time?? i say let the idiots fight if they want to... if they get killed or maimed thats one less fool humanity has to deal with.


really, your glip, uninformed statements are a waste of time,a highly subjective statement... the same can be said about making money teaching people to beat someone else up.


can't you find something else to do except take up space here?i have plenty of other things that i do also... i enjoy myself immensely on these forums... what - am i bothering you? :p

[lkfmdc]

of course, you're just too blind to see it. :)



seeing things that don't actually exist is the sign of a mental disorder




am i supposed to have pity on egocentric guys and gals that feel the need to prove themselves all the time??



I suspect that you, like most people who dabble in questions/fake "kung fu" know you have no real skills and you resent those who actually fight.

IE that is really YOUR problem...




i have plenty of other things that i do also.



bathing is clearly not one of them :rolleyes:

[uki]

seeing things that don't actually exist is the sign of a mental disordermissing the obvious is a sign of spiritual blindness.


I suspect that you, like most people who dabble in questions/fake "kung fu" know you have no real skills and you resent those who actually fight.your definition of kung fu is quite different than mine... that much is obvious.


IE that is really YOUR problem...i have no problems, only solutions. :)


bathing is clearly not one of them.awwwww... big bad fighter guy is scared of body odor and a little bit of dirt under his nails. :cool:

[rogue]

missing the obvious is a sign of spiritual blindness.

OMG, Uki is the Messiah!:eek:

[Ray Pina]

Sounds like a good idea.

Two suggestions:
1) No head gear. If ground game is allowed there's no way its not shifting or popping off. If a fighter is not comfortable fighting without the head gear they shouldn't go to something like this because they very well may face amore seasoned guy who is.

2) You have to change that ultimate weight class. A 187 guy should not have to face off with a 220 lbs regardless of how few people are drawn. It's not fair.

187- 197
198 to 210
211-220
221-245
245- and up

Let the big guys fight men their own size.

[Ray Pina]

Also curious, is this a tournament with multiple fights? Or just one fight?

How long were the rounds? Ring or cage?

This sounds like something TCMA could use but you should try to sanction it. Move it to Jersey if you have to. But then it may draw MMA folks and TCMA guys will probably back out by the bushel.

Oh well. There's plenty of venues in NJ and Conn for guys that want it.

Best of luck. Keep everyone safe.

[Phil Redmond]

Also curious, is this a tournament with multiple fights? Or just one fight?

How long were the rounds? Ring or cage?

This sounds like something TCMA could use but you should try to sanction it. Move it to Jersey if you have to. But then it may draw MMA folks and TCMA guys will probably back out by the bushel.

Oh well. There's plenty of venues in NJ and Conn for guys that want it.

Best of luck. Keep everyone safe.
I talked to the guys who are holding the event and they says it's not MMA. I remember fighting in the Fu Jow Pai events which allowed elbows, knees, and no more than 2 or 3 strikes to an opponent on the ground. I fought Jonas Nunez in one of those tournys. The fights were held in the auditorium at the school right near Confucius Plaza. I guess it was legal then.
btw, I'm going to Fajardo to work out with some WC guys in Sept. Where on the Island are you?

[Lama Pai Sifu]

They may not be calling it MMA, but the rules (what they are allowing) seem to put them in the MMA catagory. Submissions and striking, headgear or not, is considered MMA. From what I hear, schools can get closed down for hosting these events.

I'm sure they go on all the time, but it would seem like advertising it on the web would increase the chances of getting found out. :(

[Phil Redmond]

They may not be calling it MMA, but the rules (what they are allowing) seem to put them in the MMA catagory. Submissions and striking, headgear or not, is considered MMA. From what I hear, schools can get closed down for hosting these events.

I'm sure they go on all the time, but it would seem like advertising it on the web would increase the chances of getting found out. :(
I did ask if it was alright to post the event and was told it was OK. Hopefully everything will work out fine for them.

[Ray Pina]

I'm in Playa Jobos, Isabella. Holler if you want to hang. It's an amazing place and there's actually a lot of good MA down here. Lots of good judo, BJJ, kick boxing and boxing. Lots of Kung Fu clubs too. The guy I just lost too studies with a kung fu guy.

[Phil Redmond]

I'm in Playa Jobos, Isabella. Holler if you want to hang. It's an amazing place and there's actually a lot of good MA down here. Lots of good judo, BJJ, kick boxing and boxing. Lots of Kung Fu clubs too. The guy I just lost too studies with a kung fu guy.
My 2nd wife was from Isabella. I'll pm you when I get a flight. It would be good to meet some other KF people on the Island.

[Ray Pina]

Is there a way to make it just a "seminar" or "training day"... sort of how we used to do throwdowns. Everyone goes on their own accord.

I think you could just sanction it across the river but that would take time, energy and money... though guys who are going to show and do it right deserve it. At the same time, I'm all for seeing it happen instead of bad mouthing it.

Of course, and this goes for any venue, the organizers always set the stage for their advantage. For example, sounds like the ground game is not free, where a BJJ guy can take his time and wind someone down, just work them in side control.

This is why I like MMA so much: universal rules. Fair weights. Doctors.

I know how the kung fu guys think, I spent a lot of time with them.... I've done kick boxing, I've done MMA, I've done the meet in the park. Sanctioned events draw the best fighters. These are guys that like to hit people, train very hard and are at top condition.

[Phil Redmond]

Is there a way to make it just a "seminar" or "training day"... sort of how we used to do throwdowns. Everyone goes on their own accord.

I think you could just sanction it across the river but that would take time, energy and money... though guys who are going to show and do it right deserve it. At the same time, I'm all for seeing it happen instead of bad mouthing it.

Of course, and this goes for any venue, the organizers always set the stage for their advantage. For example, sounds like the ground game is not free, where a BJJ guy can take his time and wind someone down, just work them in side control.

This is why I like MMA so much: universal rules. Fair weights. Doctors.

I know how the kung fu guys think, I spent a lot of time with them.... I've done kick boxing, I've done MMA, I've done the meet in the park. Sanctioned events draw the best fighters. These are guys that like to hit people, train very hard and are at top condition.

Seminar, throwdown, or workout might sound better. I'll pass that idea on.

[LI GUY 1]

This sounds cool but is it an event or a tourney?
If it is just one fight for an audience, you can't really expect people to pay.

For a tourney though, I'd be down.

Can't see how you would get shut down, the 10 second rules and the headgear make it not quite MMA IMO. Even so, amateur MMA is not illegal, it is just unsanctioned, big difference. Pro MMA is illiegal, not amateur.

[lkfmdc]

Considering in the past the commission has shut down KICKBOXING events with full gear I wouldn't assume anything really

[LI GUY 1]

Well that might be because kickboxing is under their control? Isn't kickboxing sanctioned/regulated by them on the ammy level? Where as Am MMA is not.

[lkfmdc]

Well that might be because kickboxing is under their control? Isn't kickboxing sanctioned/regulated by them on the ammy level? Where as Am MMA is not.

Above is not correct in any way. I've spent YEARS literally in the trenches with the NY commission

The problem is this, you can read the law (I suggest you do) and say "well, it means this" but the counsel for the commission can say "we interpret to mean this" and then they can send the police, fire department, state liquor authority, dep of sanitation (I've seen them use ALL of those) to close you down

Of course, you can try to take them to court AFTER THE FACT but that isn't going to help you as they've already shut down your show

[uki]

if the commissoners come down to shut the event down, why not round them up and toss them into the ring... LOL... people need to stop being pushed around by ridiculous regulations - i thought this was the land of the free?? LOL... NOT - free to do what you're told is more like it. :)

[Ray Pina]

If we were all free sport fighters like us would have our way with all your kung fu guys' women and there'd be nothing you could do about it < ----- my attempt at pointless forum antics.

[uki]

If we were all free sport fighters like us would have our way with all your kung fu guys' women and there'd be nothing you could do about itthat's because our kung fu women would kick your a$$. :D

< ----- my attempt at pointless forum antics.i have a discounted seminary class... contact me for details on how to truly rip thru people on the boards with ease. :p

[LI GUY 1]

LOL there is a girl where I train BJJ, used to do Kung Fu, and I forgot how good she was. Rolled with her the other day and kept thinking "**** how is she so small and strong, AND I am WORKING to sub her!! Hard!"
Never discount a woman in MA who has a passion for it.

[uki]

LOL there is a girl where I train BJJ, used to do Kung Fu, and I forgot how good she was. Rolled with her the other day and kept thinking "**** how is she so small and strong, AND I am WORKING to sub her!! Hard!"
Never discount a woman in MA who has a passion for it.my martial arts messenger was a female... one tough lady - she is 60 this year. :)

[Lucas]

dont discount a kungfu guys obsession with sharp bladed objects ;)



:p

[Lama Pai Sifu]

If we were all free sport fighters like us would have our way with all your kung fu guys' women and there'd be nothing you could do about it < ----- my attempt at pointless forum antics.


Master: Conan, what is best in life?

Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you... and to hear the lamentation of their women!

Master: That is good!

[lkfmdc]

Did you hear about the Polish barbarians? Where ever they went they killed the women and raped the sheep :D

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Did you hear about the Polish barbarians? Where ever they went they killed the women and raped the sheep :D

That was absolutely terrible. :(

What? They were supposed to rape the women and KILL the sheep? Why would anyone want to kill sheep?

I could understand if the joke went, "They wore the skins of the women and raped the sheep" or if they "Ate the women..." or even "Herded the women.." But KILL them? I don't get it.

Now if you add "Warriors" into the mix..as in they "Raped the warriors, Made coats and fancy hats out of the women and THEN Killed the sheep"...now THAT might make sense for a Polish joke. 'Cause they are supposed to kill the warriors, not the sheep...but by itself..it falls a bit short for me. Sorry man.

[Pork Chop]

this (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090712153431AASg5Uh&cp=6) sums up my feelings best

[TenTigers]

well, not to be a stickler..but, I heard it as,
" steal the women and rape the horses!"
which makes more sense...
um, the other way around..well, you get the idea.

[uki]

Master: Conan, what is best in life?

Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you... and to hear the lamentation of their women!

Master: That is good!a TRUE master speaks... :rolleyes:

nice post... speaks volumes about yourself. does your wife(girlfriend) know about your wanting to hear the lamentations of the women? just what i thought about you... just another macho-man, male chauvinistic pig who is afraid of their own body odour... by the way, don't you have a daughter or something? would you want her to meet a man who thinks such as yourself and if a son, is this how you would like him to treat a woman?? this is a most pathetic mentality to have... well done. :p

[taai gihk yahn]

That was absolutely terrible. :(

What? They were supposed to rape the women and KILL the sheep? Why would anyone want to kill sheep?

I could understand if the joke went, "They wore the skins of the women and raped the sheep" or if they "Ate the women..." or even "Herded the women.." But KILL them? I don't get it.

Now if you add "Warriors" into the mix..as in they "Raped the warriors, Made coats and fancy hats out of the women and THEN Killed the sheep"...now THAT might make sense for a Polish joke. 'Cause they are supposed to kill the warriors, not the sheep...but by itself..it falls a bit short for me. Sorry man.

oh yeah, Mike - THAT really made sense of it all, thanks for clarifying that...;)

[taai gihk yahn]

well, not to be a stickler..but, I heard it as,
" steal the women and rape the horses!"
which makes more sense...
um, the other way around..well, you get the idea.

because then they'd have all these woman that they stole hanging around giving 'em a hard time for raping the horses...and that would be a horrible thing...

[Phil Redmond]

There were some great fights at the Spanish Harlem event this past Saturday.
The fighters were judged on points and how well they tried to implement their respective styles against resisting opponents. I was impressed by a Ying Yi (Hsing Yi) fighter who used his art well.
We had three people compete and we left with one gold medal and belt and two silver medals.

[cerebus]

Any video of this tourney available?

[Yum Cha]

Hi Phil,
I had a hand in promoting the state club tournaments back in 91,92. They ended up failing due to State boxing authorities regulations and red tape.

As a spectator, I'm very entertained by full contact matches where points are given for style. All value judgements aside, I just find it much more entertaining. Maybe a bit like College Ball vs Pro Ball...

Congratulations on pulling it off despite the red tape. Again next year?

[Ray Pina]

I was impressed by a Ying Yi (Hsing Yi) fighter who used his art well.
We had three people compete and we left with one gold medal and belt and two silver medals.

Where was this Hsing-I fighter from? From whom did he learn it if you don't mind my asking?

And congrats on the medals and belts.

[Phil Redmond]

Where was this Hsing-I fighter from? From whom did he learn it if you don't mind my asking?
He's also Bagua and I think he learns from Sifu Novelle aka "Black Taoist" who studied in China.


And congrats on the medals and belts.
Thanks for the congrats.

[Phil Redmond]

Yes, we videoed the fights. Everyone was so respectful with each other that we plan on doing it again real soon. Our goal is to get people to use there respective styles and and get better so that we can invite people from other disciplines to fight.

[cerebus]

Is there any way for us to view the videos?

[Ray Pina]

I'm not surprised there's some fighters coming out of that group. The technique is there. And apparently so is the will now.

Awesome. Glad it went off well.