ancient wisdom/modern fighting

[uki]

taking into account that this is a martial arts forum and that a great many of individuals somehow tie themselves into bodhidharma, i have to ask a simple question: if tamo were here today, what do you believe he would rather be interested in?? - ones egotistical assumption that ones martial art is better than someone elses or if one had, in fact, reached the ultimate reality of practicing the martial arts?

[Ray Pina]

That post is ripe with egotistical assumptions. Right from the get go its tone implies that one should come to the conclusion that modern combatives are "bad" and/or "wrong" and that the "ultimate reality" is somehow training for something in theory but never applying it in reality but somehow becoming a master of that thing.... and since you are so wise to notice it, that you are that guy.

Get off your high horse. No amount of words or political debate will make you what you want to appear to be. In fact, it's quite the opposite.

[Mano Mano]

He wouldn’t be bothered about any MA’s as he would be to busy meditating & attaining enlistment.

[David Jamieson]

a) Fish

b) Cut bait

[ittokaos]

That post is ripe with egotistical assumptions. Right from the get go its tone implies that one should come to the conclusion that modern combatives are "bad" and/or "wrong" and that the "ultimate reality" is somehow training for something in theory but never applying it in reality but somehow becoming a master of that thing.... and since you are so wise to notice it, that you are that guy.

Get off your high horse. No amount of words or political debate will make you what you want to appear to be. In fact, it's quite the opposite.

Wow. Obviously this has some stupid history that probably stemmed from a stupid arguement but we will never get anywhere in this forum if we hold on to the bitterness of the past rather than the topic in front of us.

Modern combatives are not wrong however modern sport combatives that believe that they have all the answers are. MMA has taught us that you can't not train hard and wrong and still be a good fighter. Before then we all had thought that our style was the best and that training it once a week or so was fine. Then once we got into the ring all that changed which is a good thing.

However, while MMA started off good people like Dana White(and the fools that follow him) are ruining it. It has become a sport and lost many of the reasons that made it good to begin with. It has become so egotistical that it has become a part of the d o u c h e b a g culture and said d o u c h e s are ruining it even further. There is a reason that Rorian Gracie left and it wasn't because he's getting old.

Now it's all "if it fails in the ring it's cr@p". Perhaps one of the most ignorantly dumb thing that has been said in the MA community since "Is Shaolin Do for real?"
Congrats you have now fallen in the pitfall that all MA was in back in the 80s. Time travel is fun right?

Unfortunately you may never have the privlege of being schooled by a real martial artist that would force you to see that you really dont have the ultimate style of anything. The only way to stop this is to admit that you suck. You dont have all the answers and you may never have them. All you can do is train and train and train. Then train some more. Then maybe you can understand why MMA was created in the first place. Maybe then you can look at TMA with awe instead of giggles because while you were giggling, someone with old school skill could kill you and all the rules in the world wont stop them.

If you like to fight in the ring, more power to you but dont ever assume that you are better than another fighter(sport or real) cause even a slow fat guy with a knife or a gun can change your viewpoint real quick.

Now I just realized that you may not have been talking about this issue but that is something that I had to get off of my chest and you gave me the perfect outlet.

As far as Tamo goes, he would probably be real upset at all of us that are claiming him at all considering that the majority of us are not Chan Buddhists. First I figure that he would go after Shaolin for being more about tourism and less about Chan. Then he would go back to his cave to meditate on how he could help us to save ourselves from the pitfalls of desire. :)

[Ray Pina]

It's funny. It's TCMA guys that are always the ones talking about all of these topics.

I've met a lot of real good martial artists in my life. The best ones I know, in their chosen field, don't fight. They're all experts at the thing they do and it brings them joy. And they're secure.

I know a real good BJJ black belt in San Juan that would be great.... he doesn't fight nor cares too. I drive out to see him sometimes for the pleasure of training with him.

My internal master is an old man. He hasn't really fought the whole time I know him. I met him in his 60s. I go to see him because he's an expert as his thing.

Real martial artists are more secure than this. It's this Kung Fu movie myth that people have to be the best, etc. It's young guys who are scared to fight (not in the ring, just normal comparing) that are self conscious, and create all these walls about why they don't. And they don't have to. But don't knock it. All this back and forth is silly and childish.

Just shut up and train.

[AdrianK]

He wouldn’t be bothered about any MA’s as he would be to busy meditating & attaining enlistment.

Enlisting in what?! :p

[David Jamieson]

Enlisting in what?! :p

the chan buddhist mouthboxing army of course!

[Ray Pina]

And people need to stop imposing their impressions on what some ancient historical figure would think about this and that.... that's retarded. Again, all MA discussions come down to this: shut the mouth (in this case, stop the bull$hit typing) and train. That's it.

If you think you have something super special and need others to know about it, or, you want to really go see if your training is at a certain level or standard, you go out to compare. That's it.

[TenTigers]

It's funny. It's TCMA guys that are always the ones talking about all of these topics.

I've met a lot of real good martial artists in my life. The best ones I know, in their chosen field, don't fight. They're all experts at the thing they do and it brings them joy. And they're secure.

I know a real good BJJ black belt in San Juan that would be great.... he doesn't fight nor cares too. I drive out to see him sometimes for the pleasure of training with him.

My internal master is an old man. He hasn't really fought the whole time I know him. I met him in his 60s. I go to see him because he's an expert as his thing.

Real martial artists are more secure than this. It's this Kung Fu movie myth that people have to be the best, etc. It's young guys who are scared to fight (not in the ring, just normal comparing) that are self conscious, and create all these walls about why they don't. And they don't have to. But don't knock it. All this back and forth is silly and childish.

Just shut up and train.
QFT, and probably the most mature and insightful post I've ever had the pleasure to read from you, Ray.
It answers the question:"if these guys are so good, why don't they ever go into the ring?" Ray, having met two of them, the guys who have attained real skill and mastery, and yet feel no need to compete, but would rather keep to themselves and perfect their art, understands them.
-while young fools scoff at them.
"The Moon is not affected by the baying of wolves."

[Mr Punch]

喝！
123




... The Buddha would have definitely been ****ed off by the character posting limit.

[TenTigers]

hawt? (drink?)

[Scott R. Brown]

That post is ripe with egotistical assumptions. Right from the get go its tone implies that one should come to the conclusion that modern combatives are "bad" and/or "wrong" and that the "ultimate reality" is somehow training for something in theory but never applying it in reality but somehow becoming a master of that thing.... and since you are so wise to notice it, that you are that guy.

Get off your high horse. No amount of words or political debate will make you what you want to appear to be. In fact, it's quite the opposite.

I don't know Ray...Maybe I missed something between you and uki, but it seems that most people have a strong ego attachment to their MA of choice regardless of whether it is TCMA or MMA. Not everyone is as open minded as you regardless of the few exceptional marital artists you have met.

Perhaps you are reading more into the question than is there!

[uki]

I don't know Ray...Maybe I missed something between you and uki,i touched an exposed nerve on him... OUCH!! :D

but it seems that most people have a strong ego attachment to their MA of choice regardless of whether it is TCMA or MMA.ray doesn't seem to acknowledge this though... he even thinks i am some kind of "tradionalist" or something - he can't seem to get past the labels yet.

Perhaps you are reading more into the question than is there!anyone with any background in the figure afore-mentioned would see this as being one of the most simplest questions one could ask...

Again, all MA discussions come down to this: shut the mouth (in this case, stop the bull$hit typing) and train. That's it.LOL... but what is the purpose of training?


If you think you have something super special and need others to know about it, or, you want to really go see if your training is at a certain level or standard, you go out to compare. That's it.ummm... i thought you said that's it in the above post... which one is it - that one or this one? :p

[Lokhopkuen]

taking into account that this is a martial arts forum and that a great many of individuals somehow tie themselves into bodhidharma, i have to ask a simple question: if tamo were here today, what do you believe he would rather be interested in?? - ones egotistical assumption that ones martial art is better than someone elses or if one had, in fact, reached the ultimate reality of practicing the martial arts?

He'd open an Ashram and bang all the purty chicks:D

[Lokhopkuen]

喝！
123




... The buddha would have definitely been ****ed off by the character posting limit.

lol! 1234567.....

[uki]

He'd open an Ashram and bang all the purty chicks.you're probably right, afterall he's already enlightened and it's hard for chicks to resist a blue-eyed devil. :D

[Scott R. Brown]

i touched an exposed nerve on him... OUCH!! :D


Whose exposed nerves DON'T you touch!:eek:

...besides mine that is!

[taai gihk yahn]

He'd open an Ashram and bang all the purty chicks:D

he'd be running Esalen...

[Ray Pina]

I admit, maybe I'm a little over sensitive because I just got back. I like Uki, but his tone has been sort of negative, even somewhat degrading, towards competitive fighters and I've been spending a lot of time with these guys, and competitive BJJ guys and you know what, them and their coaches are super cool.

Sometimes we'll privately critic this guy or that, but we all respect each other. Everyone is out there putting in on the line. It's easy to take a high stand from the sidelines and say this guy is sloppy, this guy is low level. That's the same attitude that leads to thinking Wing Chun is better then Hung Gar, or Internal is better then External.

Fights are dynamic. Two guys can fight today and then fight a week later in the same place and have a completely different outcome due to circumstances at the time.

Its crazy that in martial arts guys who sit out on the sidelines think they're in a position of superiority to guys that are performing at a high level. It's like weekend two-hand touch football players thinking they're better then a pro because the pro fumbled when he got hit by an All Star linebacker. It's ridiculous.

This is not to put anyone above or below anyone else. This is just a desire for acknowledgement of reality. There's no way a working man who trains when he can is going to beat a pro fighter training twice a day, six days a week.... no matter what he trains or how.

This is not taking anything away from Kung Fu, Karate, BJJ, Boxing... it's a matter of commitment. Some guys can make it. Some guys can't. Some guys can be super committed but might lack God given attributes. I got the will and the balls but I'm 35 years old. I missed the boat. I'm not already a world champ wrestler like Randy Couture... I'm not already a world champ kick boxer like Chuck Lidell. Age is a hindrance. I admit that and adjust my training and expectations.... but I don't say silly $hit like those guys are low level or that I could rip their tendons out if the rules allowed it.

I'm just saying be honest with yourself before posting. What is there to prove? This place would be better for it.

[Scott R. Brown]

I admit, maybe I'm a little over sensitive because I just got back. I like Uki, but his tone has been sort of negative, even somewhat degrading, towards competitive fighters and I've been spending a lot of time with these guys, and competitive BJJ guys and you know what, them and their coaches are super cool.

Hi Ray,

That is uki's style. He is a Loki. He will try to find an attachment to an idea that someone has as then fray it at the edges. It isn't the "same old" attack MMA schtick from him.

For him it is is the FIXED IDEA that is attacked. It doesn't matter what the idea is. If he thinks someone is attached to an idea he will try to find a way to knock them over with it.

He gets on most everyone's nerves. He doesn't get on mine, because I believe I understand him, and I never take what he says at face value.

There is always an under current of mischievous winking when he posts something. I could be wrong and many people disagree with my view of him, but they are the ones who generally get pi$$ed at him, while he has yet to pi$$ me off.


He says as he runs for cover........:eek:

[uki]

I could be wrong and many people disagree with my view of him, but they are the ones who generally get pi$$ed at him, while he has yet to pi$$ me off.LOL... and obviously people who get all bent out of shape and offended/p!ssed off are the ones far below the level of functioning maturity. :D

[Ray Pina]

I actually like Uki.

As for me, I don't consider myself an adherent to any one style. I've studied karate, I've studied a couple methods of kung fu, BJJ and boxing. I consider myself someone who trains. And that includes running, lifting and quiet contemplation. Training the whole self. Spiritually, physically, mentally and emotionally and even financially.

[Scott R. Brown]

I actually like Uki.

As for me, I don't consider myself an adherent to any one style. I've studied karate, I've studied a couple methods of kung fu, BJJ and boxing. I consider myself someone who trains. And that includes running, lifting and quiet contemplation. Training the whole self. Spiritually, physically, mentally and emotionally and even financially.

Yeah..I know that about you Ray cuz I've been around for years. But uki appeared on the scene during your absence of participation, so I don't know how familiar you are with his antics. But he grows on you, just don't take him too seriously, even when he should be taken seriously. Remember, he is Loki!

Think of him like you would your crazy cousin....you love him, but you would never take your eyes off of him, LOL!!:)

[uki]

Remember, he is Loki!there can be only one.


Think of him like you would your crazy cousin....you love him, but you would never take your eyes off of him, LOL!!i have a crazy cousin, but she is married and has kids. :D

[David Jamieson]

easy on the *** chat gents, people will talk.

[uki]

easy on the *** chat gents, people will talk.was that code for "wanting to walk"? :p

[Mano Mano]

Enlisting in what?! :p

Haven’t a clue why I wrote enlistment, should have been enlightenment, It was at the end of a very long day when I wrote it.

[uki]

Haven’t a clue why I wrote enlistment, should have been enlightenment, It was at the end of a very long day when I wrote it.so you are a soldier... ?

[Mano Mano]

so you are a soldier... ?
Me sir, soldier sir, no sir.

[uki]

Me sir, soldier sir, no sir.roger that. ten-four. over and out.

[taai gihk yahn]

Me sir, soldier sir, no sir.

Jar-jar?...

[Scott R. Brown]

there can be only one.

Except when there is TWO!:eek:

[David Jamieson]

And the Lord spake, saying, ‘First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then, shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shalt be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, nor either count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it.

[taai gihk yahn]

And it came to pass that Saint Victor was taken from this place
to another place, where he was lain to rest himself amongst sheets
of muslin and velvet.
And there stroked was he by maidens of the Orient.
For sixteen days and nights stroked they him, yea verily and
caressed him.
His hair, ruffled they. And their fingers rubbethed they in oil
of olives, and ranneth them across all parts of his body for as much
as to soothe him.
And the soles of his feet licked they. And the upper parts of
his thigh did they anoint with the balm of forbidden trees.
And with the teeth of their mouths, nibbled they the pointed
bits at the top of his ears. Yea verily, and did their tongues
thereof make themselves acquainted with his most secret places.
For fifteen days and nights did Victor withstand these maidens,
until he cried out, saying:
"This...is fantastic! Oh...this is *terrific!!*"
And the Lord did here the cry of Victor. And verily came He down
and slew the maidens. And caused their cottonwool bugs to blow away,
and their Kleenex to be laid waste utterly.
And Victor, in his anguish, cried out that the Lord was a rotten
basterd.
So the Lord sent an angel to comfort Victor for the weekend.
And entered they together the jaccuzzi.

Here endeth the lesson.


....


oh, this was a reference to the whole number thing, not a send up of Anglican clergy...

never mind...

[Scott R. Brown]

I refuse to read any of that until you bring me a "shrubbery"...Big Nose!

[SPJ]

taking into account that this is a martial arts forum and that a great many of individuals somehow tie themselves into bodhidharma, i have to ask a simple question: if tamo were here today, what do you believe he would rather be interested in?? - ones egotistical assumption that ones martial art is better than someone elses or if one had, in fact, reached the ultimate reality of practicing the martial arts?

I heard that he was sitting in meditation without moving or eating for 7 and half years. in a cave on shao si shan near shaolin temple.

A prince tried to pull him with a robe tied up to a horse and to no avail.

if he is alive today, I probably would sit close to him. Only that I would pass out and dehydrated in a day. or need to pee.

It is only a legend. But it examplified his staying power or ding li.

:cool:

[SPJ]

The legend also said that there was only one sandal in his "coffin".

There was a merchant travelling from India and back to China. He saw him and asked him where he was going?

He only had one sandal on. He said that he is going to the west.

If he is alive today, I probably would follow him.

:cool:

[SPJ]

Da Mo saw the monks were so weak.

So he designed some qi gong and tendon exchange and bone marrow washing practice sets

so the weak and veggie eating monks would be stronger and healthier to do the chores at the temple.

Luo Han boxing, so that the monks may defend themself.

other styles were brought in from outsiders and preserved. such as mantis etc. they have nothing to do with Da Mo.

in short;

1. Chan/zen

2. Yi Jing Jing

3. Xi Xue Jing

4. Luo Han boxing

are do you doing the 4 only or all of the above?

--

:)

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0onvP8QlzI0

da mo cane.

:)

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JO3k55h_HLA&feature=fvw

luo han fist.

:)

[uki]

So he designed some qi gong and tendon exchange and bone marrow washing practice sets so the weak and veggie eating monks would be stronger and healthier to do the chores at the temple.he also ate meat and drank wine... had long red hair(supposedly), bald on the crown, wore a long beard, and had blue eyes. he was unkempt and as rugged as the mountains he travelled thru to get to the temple... he dressed in blues and greys. the emperor of the liang dynasty, wu-ti, heard of his arrival and arranged an audience, yet bodhidharma was not a push over and explained to the emperor that enlightenment did not come from building monestaries, scribing books, or from any labours of others - good or bad... he was subsequently shown the door.


Luo Han boxing, so that the monks may defend themself.yet it wasn't until nearly 700 years had passed before shaolins signature martial arts became part of the temple cirriculum.


other styles were brought in from outsiders and preserved. such as mantis etc. they have nothing to do with Da Mo.yes... there is a great misconception that he actually created the martial arts, this was not the case... what he brought was an unorthodoxed understanding of the nature of the way that was manifest in each and every living soul if they took the time to discover it for themselves.




1. Chan/zen

2. Yi Jing Jing

3. Xi Xue Jing

4. Luo Han boxing

are do you doing the 4 only or all of the above?nope... not a one. once the raft has served it's purpose, it is left at the river. :)

[uki]

some things need to keep resurfacing...

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuDmZqdlqV0

sun zi bin fa.

:)

[Ray Pina]

(Let the people have their myths and fables)

[Scott R. Brown]

(Let the people have their myths and fables)

Even letting others have their myths and fables is adhering to myths and fables!:eek::)

[uki]

(Let the people have their myths and fables)you seem to have a very monotonous life...

[SIFU RON]

I enjoy this thread, it fun to read your responses. When the regulars get together and enjoy yourselves "feathers fly" and it makes enjoyable reading,

[SimonM]

Well I disappear from the online world to write a novel, complete a first draft, second draft, throw the entire project in the waste bin, write another novel and am now on draft 1.5 and sure this one won't get waste-binned and (shock) nothing has changed. :D

[Scott R. Brown]

Yeah Simon....and just what does your post have to do with ancient wisdom/modern fighting???:confused::)

Nice to see you back! Good job on the effort to write and good luck with your second go at it!

Don't be such a stranger, we nee more to argue about here!;)

[KC Elbows]

I refuse to read any of that until you bring me a "shrubbery"...Big Nose!

Clearly that's a mixed montyphor!

Stone him!

[uki]

Well I disappear from the online world to write a novel, complete a first draft, second draft, throw the entire project in the waste bin, write another novel and am now on draft 1.5 and sure this one won't get waste-binned and (shock) nothing has changed.nice to see you back.... plenty has changed in your absence... i met dale dugas, gene, taai gihk yahn, and lama pie(who thinks i am the stinkiest person he's ever smelled) LOL... hope he never has to go to jail or work an actual "job" with other "men". lkmfdc has supposedly put me on ignore again because he lacks the intellectual capability to deal with me yet... so yes, the modern fighting spirals on!! so what is/was your book about?? i have mixed half finished books scattered about... i recently got a leather-bound coconut fiber paper book to consolidate them all into one work. anyhow... cheers! :)

[Scott R. Brown]

Clearly that's a mixed montyphor!

Stone him!

Just don't spam, spam, spam, eggs and spam me!:D

[Ray Pina]

Even letting others have their myths and fables is adhering to myths and fables!:eek::)

How so?


.......

[KC Elbows]

Just don't spam, spam, spam, eggs and spam me!:D

Bloody vikings!

[SimonM]

Uki, your balls won't fall off if you shower. :D

I'll try to pop in occasionally Scott. Since I think I actually will take this book of mine all the way to publication I'm trying to build my web presence back up a bit.

[Scott R. Brown]

How so?


.......

Because having that opinion is a belief based upon you own interpretations which in and of themselves are your own myths and fables.


And before you accuse me falsely again, my opinions and beliefs reflect my own myths and fables too!

[bawang]

whats ur book about simon? if its about super duper soldiers shooting lasers to aliens in outerspace i buy on amazon.ca
if its boring no thanks

[uki]

if its boring no thanksyou won't know if its boring until you read it for yourself. :)

[SimonM]

whats ur book about simon? if its about super duper soldiers shooting lasers to aliens in outerspace i buy on amazon.ca
if its boring no thanks

Swashbuckling post-apocalyptic high adventure with influences from the Cozy Apocalypse and Wuxia genres. And it's not going to be on amazon.ca until it's published. I'll let you know.

[bawang]

remember if you plagurize from chinese book theyll never find out
its a goldmine!
by the way good luck frend

[SPJ]

the thing about novel writing

is that you have to keep writing, such as rolling out a new book every so often.

not all of your books will sell well

but once you have a book that does well, all of your books will become hot items for your readers.

even though you have a best seller,

you still keep on writing, and roll out a new book every so often.

your reader will not let you quit, they will ask for more from you.

such is the life of a writer.

c'est la vie.

:cool: