What's the object lesson here?

[Knifefighter]

It's a more pertinent lesson than the one with the kendo guys:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jf3Gc2a0_8

[monji112000]

It's a more pertinent lesson than the one with the kendo guys:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jf3Gc2a0_8

He should have spent more time building his chi.
or
Karate style punches are in fact very powerful, because clearly even with a large amount of chi protecting him the Karate fighter was able to harm the Chi master. I wonder if this was a MT or boxer what the outcome would be. Honestly I don't think the chi master would have been hurt.. This really does show the powerful style of Karate. Its a very similar style compared to SLT energy.

[Knifefighter]

He should have spent more time building his chi.
or
Karate style punches are in fact very powerful, because clearly even with a large amount of chi protecting him the Karate fighter was able to harm the Chi master. I wonder if this was a MT or boxer what the outcome would be. Honestly I don't think the chi master would have been hurt.. This really does show the powerful style of Karate. Its a very similar style compared to SLT energy.

LOL... that was good.

[monji112000]

LOL... that was good.

people can say what you will about the Gracies, but when they made people look stupid they did it for the most part without striking. (if the guy used dirty tactics they used them too). I feel bad for the old guy, It would have been much more respectful to just take him down and put him to sleep. Honestly... if someone is that far from reality its like kicking a mentally challenged person.
Just look at the video clip of that guy going to a NYSANDA smoker... honestly He looked worse than me. ;) I can't seem to find the clips of him just looking stupid.

[grasshopper 2.0]

Sorry - i'm a little confused: what do you mean by object lesson?

[Knifefighter]

Sorry - i'm a little confused: what do you mean by object lesson?

The lesson that can be compared to many of the posts make by people here about the effectiveness of the things showed to them by their supposedly skilled instructors who learned from their supposedly skilled grandmaster instructors.

[Ultimatewingchun]

Before commenting on the actual event, let me ask something: How old is the guy on the left? He looks like a man in his 70's.

[Knifefighter]

Before commenting on the actual event, let me ask something: How old is the guy on the left? He looks like a man in his 70's.
His age has nothing to do with the lesson.

[Ultimatewingchun]

Okay, so I take that to mean that he really is a man in his 70's.

The object lesson?

Well for the karate fighter, the lesson is possibly still not learned: you don't strike an old man in the face unless he's in the act of attacking you or a loved one. Period.

For the old man, the lesson is that it's time to give up your illusions about about what chi training can do for you, and move on (hopefully) into the 21ft century.

And for the rest of us on this forum, the lesson is that, no matter how nice we are to him...
Dale Franks/knifefighter will never stop trolling. :p

[Knifefighter]

For the old man, the lesson is that it's time to give up your illusions about about what chi training can do for you, and move on (hopefully) into the 21ft century.
That's part of it... kind of. Only it's more involved and less specific than that.

But keep trying.

Certain people will figure it out, but most won't.

[goju]

the object lesson is dale is a pud who needs to pul his head out of his rectum lol

[Hendrik]

I repeatly watch the clip a few times,
and by evidence from the IMA signatures this person doesnt even have the basic of IMA.
So, forget about Qi cultivation for martial art purpose. He doesnt even have the basic striking training in IMA and in fact his physical body and power generation is weak and sluggist. (sp?)

Qi cultivation is not illusion, however, it is not what one's own fantasy after watching too much fantasy martial art movies.






The whole deal in the clip is just a person who claim to have mysterious power but dont even know how to do a proper strike under dynamic situation. and very confuse what to do at the contact.

and the attacker is makeing use of collision momentum which the other person doesnt know how to deal with and the person own arm as a bar to keep off his own defense so that tha attacker can attack as he likes it.


IMHO,
Lesson learn is one needs to know what is what and stop fantasying and making false claim. and stop thinking if one could do thing is static demo one could do it under dynamics situation.

Got nothing to do with 15 century or 25 century.

the question is do you know what you know , do you know what it is, do you have it?


Qi ? no joke. until you meet the 91 real deal like the following.. instead of all theory toung fu trying to explain or debunk one's bias in a new age or so called scientific way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyNmV2Y43ko&feature=related

[Liddel]

Whats the object lessson ?

Well, Perhaps that one can only really get a insight into your skill level by actually fighting.

I mean without seeing or hearing him mouth off saying "im the best fighter in the world" or to see him pre fight, training with his students practicing silly compliant drills which make him think he's the man, we cant actually say anything but... good on him for getting in there and mixing it up with a much younger and clearly more skilled opponent. End of.

And because we only see the fight with no background info etc this is just as pointless as the thread T started IMO regardless of the fact i know where your going with it.

IMO the clip of the kung fu guy getting taken down and having his arm broke from 'John' the grappler(?) is a better post for this thread because we have you or was it T that was actually there Dale and can attest to the fact the guy thought he was the s h i t and threw his students round in unrealistic ways prior to the fight.... if you see where im coming from ?

And hey at least the old man didnt run off crying like Forrest...AGAIN :eek: :p :o :cool:


Well for the karate fighter, the lesson is possibly still not learned: you don't strike an old man in the face unless he's in the act of attacking you or a loved one. Period.

I agree with your morality Vic for sure, but they are consenting adults unless the guy with the gun has been frammed out of shot :o


DREW

[grasshopper 2.0]

To add to all of the above - the karate guy cannot use this fight as a measure of his own skill since chi master is not a "competent" fighter nor wanting to rip his head off...so really this victory or fight doesn't count for any real meaning...

The lesson is no different from trusting a con man...a madoff...etc etc. Of course, hard for many to see it until after the fact. Everyone else knows better but any of us can fall victim to it...

[Hendrik]

To add to all of the above - the karate guy cannot use this fight as a measure of his own skill since chi master is not a "competent" fighter nor wanting to rip his head off...so really this victory or fight doesn't count for any real meaning...

The lesson is no different from trusting a con man...a madoff...etc etc. Of course, hard for many to see it until after the fact. Everyone else knows better but any of us can fall victim to it...


yup. we all can fall victim.
Especially those who think Qi cultivation is a short cut to become a super figther.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoU90rk0XM0




The So called master must be naive or purely stupid to agree with this challenge.

BTW is that a mmA guy or karate guy ?


The reality is IMA training needs a good foundation in physical training. Most dont know and or never get to that level.

Why Qi cultivation help? it help one to perform better when one is aging and adding more degree of freedom in one's physical handling.


Dont believe me? just let every share how a proper Kiai is done. and see how miss understood this kiai practice is.

[grasshopper 2.0]

So how is a proper kiai supposed to be performed??

[Hendrik]

So how is a proper kiai supposed to be performed??

When Kiai is perform properly in IMA, the diapham is dropping, compress down ward naturally, similar to a "stone" falling into the DAn dien.

Instead of screaming out loud, tensing the diapham, and stop breathing as most people does. which causing stress to the internal organs or even lack of Oxigen or blood flow to one's own brain.

This dropping of diapham is a part of power generation, the TCMA IMA power generation is complex and not rely on a single source. What I was told was It atleast has 3 types of power generation happen in the same time instead of our general muscular one.

Thus, the cultivate of Qi is important because Qi cultivation is to open up the different paths. and serve as balancing elements for the internal organs.

In general, Even with the Qi cultivation, if one doesnt know the power generation platform, one still cant issue force. Unless one is in the top advance Qi cultivation where most Paths are clear to him, then power generation goes nature and issue force is nature.

But before that most IMA needs to know the power platform...etc. otherwise, the art will not work.

and one of the biggest issue today is people doesnt know the two paths but thinking they only have to go cultivate Qi and then some day "walla" magic happen, well that is not the case unless one is super genious such as Lao Tzu or Gautama Buddha who have sharp fully enligthement. Most of us just doenst work that way. and cant go that path. Thus, one can spend 100 years if without the knowledge of the power platform, one mostly will have a good healthy body but cant issue force.


So, as I have heard, even in SLT, there is the two paths. the Qi cultivation and the Power platform, and at advance level, the two path become one.

If the two paths is lost, then it default to basic physical power generation platform, meaning the set is almost useless. the move and technics only can fool the ordinary weaker people, when it against some one who is trained or have mastery, it will not work .


One really needs to know what one is doing. it is a world of cause and effect. Even Miracle is govern by the law of cause and effect.

Just some opinion.

[-木叶-]

It's a more pertinent lesson than the one with the kendo guys:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jf3Gc2a0_8

I think the video is trying to tell us, to always avoid a false sense of security, put
things to the test, and not to overestimate or underestimate ourselves and our
opponents.

[Lee Chiang Po]

Qi is very real, but it is not what some think it to be. It flows, but it can not leave your body. You can not project it. That would be akin to the occult. magic if you will. And that does not exist. So if anyone claims to be able to do that you need to walk away. What makes me wonder is how his students fell for this and in some ways I think maybe they might have also been to blame for leading the old man on.

[Ultimatewingchun]

....yeah, right here: :D :cool: ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPkI9oKv6Iw

[Ultimatewingchun]

AWESOME FOREPLAY !!! :p

[Mr Punch]

The Japanese are still polite when they're beating the snot out of old mental patients who've set themselves up to be some kind of martial artist?

[sanjuro_ronin]

What saddens my about that clip was how the old guy actually THOUGHT he was able to fight with whatever crap he was doing.
The shock on his face when he got punched in the face said it all.
Truly, this is a typical case of "wake up and smell the wasabi".

[Wayfaring]

It's a more pertinent lesson than the one with the kendo guys:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jf3Gc2a0_8

That Howard Liu in addition to making indestructable kimonos also makes very large t-shirts? Like the one worn by the ref in that video?

[-木叶-]

I saw Dale's video, and further exploring it, discovered this one, 1:13 onwards made me ROFL!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tib2Urowsdc

[Knifefighter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tib2Urowsdc

Both he and his students were completely convinced that the junk he was teaching them was real. This is what happens when you train in a little cocoon, and don't venture out into the real world to test things out.

While this is an extreme example, it's not really that much different than the things that many of the people post here. Just look at how many people talk about the skill of this or that grandmaster, but there is absolutely no evidence of this person doing anything skillful outside of the training facility with his own students or students attending a seminar.

It's also not that much different than those who claim certain techniques (can we say standing joint locks) are valid, although there is next to no evidence of these things working on a consistent basis.

And yes, this guy was talking crap about MMA being a sport with rules and how he had actually fought many times on the street and was also undefeated in over 200 no rules matches... and, until this match, there was no evidence of his skills, except as "felt" by his students. Sound familiar?

[Pacman]

yeah. brings to mind a person named dale franks. :rolleyes:

[lkfmdc]

The chi master would have killed the guy, but the karate guy watched TV the day before and George Dillman explained that Chi doesn't work if your tongue is up in the roof of your mouth and you raise your big toes

(the really sad part of this is, the part about Dillman is TRUE. He tried his tricks on some MMA fighters, they were uneffected and that was the excuse he gave)

[monji112000]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdrzBL2dHMI&feature=related

You don't have to be an idiot to believe in this stuff. I have talked to prominent doctors who were not sure if this stuff was real.. Well to be fare they were sure that sending "energy" over distances was not real.. but touching a person and sending energy was real. LOL The "death" touch... They were real doctors who save peoples lives.. but they had no idea how it would work. One doctor suggested hitting someone in the nose at the right angle could kill with little effort.
When I asked why you don't hear about this stuff in any sport fighting.. well everyone would be dead.. LOL
;)

[goju]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tib2Urowsdc

Both he and his students were completely convinced that the junk he was teaching them was real. This is what happens when you train in a little cocoon, and don't venture out into the real world to test things out.

While this is an extreme example, it's not really that much different than the things that many of the people post here. Just look at how many people talk about the skill of this or that grandmaster, but there is absolutely no evidence of this person doing anything skillful outside of the training facility with his own students or students attending a seminar.

It's also not that much different than those who claim certain techniques (can we say standing joint locks) are valid, although there is next to no evidence of these things working on a consistent basis.


And yes, this guy was talking crap about MMA being a sport with rules and how he had actually fought many times on the street and was also undefeated in over 200 no rules matches... and, until this match, there was no evidence of his skills, except as "felt" by his students. Sound familiar?
yeah there are alot of delusional old men on this forum ahahahahahhahaa

[Ultimatewingchun]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tib2Urowsdc

Both he and his students were completely convinced that the junk he was teaching them was real. This is what happens when you train in a little cocoon, and don't venture out into the real world to test things out.

While this is an extreme example, it's not really that much different than the things that many of the people post here. Just look at how many people talk about the skill of this or that grandmaster, but there is absolutely no evidence of this person doing anything skillful outside of the training facility with his own students or students attending a seminar.

It's also not that much different than those who claim certain techniques (can we say standing joint locks) are valid, although there is next to no evidence of these things working on a consistent basis.

And yes, this guy was talking crap about MMA being a sport with rules and how he had actually fought many times on the street and was also undefeated in over 200 no rules matches... and, until this match, there was no evidence of his skills, except as "felt" by his students. Sound familiar?
.......................................

***Oh sure, the Vince McMahon Jr. WWE-like lunacy on that vid is very much a parallel to what goes on here. Right. I see it. Yep. In fact, maybe you could get Terence to initiate a class action lawsuit on behalf of the fourm, because it's just possible that simply even watching that vid could have harmful effects on our health!

[Liddel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tib2Urowsdc
Both he and his students were completely convinced that the junk he was teaching them was real. This is what happens when you train in a little cocoon, and don't venture out into the real world to test things out.



it's not really that much different than the things that many of the people post here. Just look at how many people talk about the skill of this or that grandmaster.

I find it vastly different. am i alone on this.....? Lets use our own GM Ip man as an example. He never claimed anything special or out of this world. The stories of encounters we hear are from his students and people that were there. Sure exaggeration is part of stories but its a far cry from the delusional example in this thread.

And for balance i'll just put it out there that i doubt anyone here really beleives GM IP wasted ten japs in the same fight as portrayed in the latest movie LOL.

I personally believe he was just a dude that could punch above his weight becase im told by someone that was there, he's no god.



And yes, this guy was talking crap about MMA being a sport with rules and how he had actually fought many times on the street and was also undefeated in over 200 no rules matches...

Seriously though, how many chunners here testify that thier sifu is undefeated in more than 5 street fights ?

How many have never been outside there own kwoon to spar or at least touch hands with another school ?

How many believe in Dim Mak and Chi blasts ? Show of hands :rolleyes:

My Sifu personally never advocated Dim Mak and hes a CMD and Martial artist, hes been beaten in several fights but learnt from it.

I have touched hands with all 5 different sifu's in my local area and sparr with a group of friends from 4 other different styles and im of the opinion that VT is a great self defence system and its saved my ass several times and i only train it as a hobby. :)

And finally how many here have competed with VT and then consistently visited either an Aikido or TKD forum to enlighten the practitioners how s h i t thier training and system really are ? LOL

Seriously Dale i appreciate your experience and we see eye to eye on many things based on what i read from you in different threads, but for me a humble guy just trying to be good at what ive got, its getting a little stereotypical and boring man. And the VT geeks out there that talk BS about there fightin prowess are largely to blame but remember we're not all like that mate.

DREW

[Ultimatewingchun]

You're right on all counts, Drew/Liddell. I mentioned "Dale Franks at his best" on another thread recently.

Well this latest troll attempt is an example of Dale Franks "at his worst", actually.

Although I gotta admit, this latest vid is friggin' funny. :eek: :D

[Liddel]

Although I gotta admit, this latest vid is friggin' funny. :eek: :D

Ill never understand how people can by into that stuff, but i did have a laugh.

My friends all use the term 'common sence' from time to time, but i have never... i say 'un common' sence cause in reality - it aint all that common - :p LOL

DREW

[Liddel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdrzBL2dHMI&feature=related
You don't have to be an idiot to believe in this stuff.
;)

Hey Monji - 3 mins 55 sec... Stephan Bonar ????

Someone confirm or deny for me.

DREW

[anerlich]

(the really sad part of this is, the part about Dillman is TRUE. He tried his tricks on some MMA fighters, they were uneffected and that was the excuse he gave)

He told John Will, on whom his techniques also had no effect, that John was one of the small minority of the population whose chi flows backwards and that was why he was unaffected.

[Yoshiyahu]

The guy developed his Chi to live Healthy longer. But if he wants to fight with his Chi he needs to train his chi to break wood, brick and stone. An hit the karate guy with so much force the fight is over.

But if you only acquire Chi for health how can you expect to fight. But we did see a good demostration how his chi is very strong. He took extemely hard blows from a Karate guy and didn't die. So Is Chi is actually strong seeing he is like a 70 year old man.

[Edmund]

How many believe in Dim Mak and Chi blasts ? Show of hands :rolleyes:



Some on here do believe in it!
You roll your eyes but there's some scam artists or scammed people on here talking about how they can fight with qi powers. And they will continue to make claims about how it really works until they actually have to try it with a non-compliant person.



The guy developed his Chi to live Healthy longer. But if he wants to fight with his Chi he needs to train his chi to break wood, brick and stone.

What BS. Look at that other clip of his where he's chi blasting his students. He's a scam artist. It's completely dishonest.

Good triumphed over evil when that guy got beaten down.

[goju]

dim maks real they have done numerous studies on it its just most people who claim to know it are full of crap

[Wayfaring]

Actually, Dale, I found this YouTube depiction of your original video that has a whole lot more context including some of the demo BS beforehand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I&feature=related

The more you see the more ridiculous it looks...

[Knifefighter]

Actually, Dale, I found this YouTube depiction of your original video that has a whole lot more context including some of the demo BS beforehand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I&feature=related

The more you see the more ridiculous it looks...

No more ridiculous that some of theoretical non-fighters make here.

[Wayfaring]

No more ridiculous that some of theoretical non-fighters make here.

Speaking of chi blasts, this sure looked like one to me.

http://mixedmartialartvideos.com/anderson-silva-vs-forrest-griffin-video-ufc-101/


However when you slow it down not so much...

[Ultimatewingchun]

Great thread. Not the least bit ridiculous.

[Edmund]

dim maks real they have done numerous studies on it its just most people who claim to know it are full of crap

OR all people who claim to know it are full of crap.

Numerous studies? Which ones?

[lkfmdc]

When people say "dim mak means the death touch" it makes me cringe :eek:

Why do people do such stupid things? HINT, learn a little Chinese and you might find out that it doesn't mean anything of the sort!

Several decades ago, when we first met Chan Tai San and we were young and stupid, those two always seem to go together BTW, we asked him about "Dim Mak"

His answer? "Yeah, kick them in the groing, poke them in the eyes, box the ears"

NOTHING LIKE "DEATH TOUCH" :rolleyes:

[TenTigers]

LOL The "death" touch... They were real doctors who save peoples lives.. but they had no idea how it would work. One doctor suggested hitting someone in the nose at the right angle could kill with little effort.


I wouldn't be so quick to scoff, if I were you. It just so happens that there is truth in this. What the doctor may have failed to mention is as Hendrick would say, lack of proper power delivery platform.
The reality of this is, that with little effort, hitting someone in the nose with a schoolbus can indeed kill.
(sigh) Sometimes, I get so tired of the ignorance of some of you...

[Hendrik]

I wouldn't be so quick to scoff, if I were you. It just so happens that there is truth in this. What the doctor may have failed to mention is as Hendrick would say, lack of proper power delivery platform.
The reality of this is, that with little effort, hitting someone in the nose with a schoolbus can indeed kill.
(sigh) Sometimes, I get so tired of the ignorance of some of you...


Look at the power platform of the following,

look at the take down start at 1.45/2.43

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA_AuE5Z0ZA


compare with

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DUpiPdTZKY



what type of power platform WC has which is at least par with this? if there is no such a power platform, the art is in big trouble.

[goju]

there was this one book i read a few months back i dorn remember the name but ill look for it later on today
anyway the author was ceptical abou dim mak so he was in china and asked an old master to preform a dim mak strike on him the master abile and poke dhim in the stomach the strike winded him temporarily and almost buckled him a few minutes later he recovered and thought nothing more of it
two days passed and he had to be rushed to the hospital because he was having extreme chest pains and almost died lol

he said to his exact words that he wants to see more studies done on dim mak but he wont participate in them
dim maks not a joke its proven in chinese medicine the points that are striked arecavaties you dont want to have attacked

[Lucas]

'dim mak' is certainly real, only the ideas and fantasies many people have regarding dim mak is not even close. knowledge of the bodies weak points and how to make use of that is an effective aspect of any full body damage study.

we've all felt pressure point grabs and strikes......right?


death touch? no....lol....no touch KO....please :rolleyes:

its means to artery/pressurepoint/cavaty press....


wuxia isnt real

: that vids always funny to watch.

lesson:

"BUYER BEWARE"

[goju]

you can certainly die from being struck there but its not like in a movie where the master finger jab s some body and they grip there heart and blood shoots out of their eyes nose and ears lol
the majoirty of the strikes are not fatal i beleive only around 18 are

[Edmund]

there was this one book i read a few months back i dorn remember the name but ill look for it later on today
anyway the author was ceptical abou dim mak so he was in china and asked an old master to preform a dim mak strike on him the master abile and poke dhim in the stomach the strike winded him temporarily and almost buckled him a few minutes later he recovered and thought nothing more of it
two days passed and he had to be rushed to the hospital because he was having extreme chest pains and almost died lol

he said to his exact words that he wants to see more studies done on dim mak but he wont participate in them
dim maks not a joke its proven in chinese medicine the points that are striked arecavaties you dont want to have attacked

That's not "numerous studies". That's some book that you don't even remember the title of.
Maybe the author was a fat old man, one doughnut away from coronary failure. These are the complete scams I'm talking about.

[goju]

That's not "numerous studies". That's some book that you don't even remember the title of.
Maybe the author was a fat old man, one doughnut away from coronary failure. These are the complete scams I'm talking about.
no where did i list this as one of the studies done i just wrote that as an example of dim mak being used on a sceptic martila artist

[bennyvt]

a strike to the nose can kill. Not the old come into brain crap but he you recieve enough force you can recieve fractures around the eye socket which can cause death through shock and trauma. This nearly happened to a aussie cricket player when he lent for the ball another guy smashed him with his leg. One broke his leg the other was very close to dead.

[Frost]

dim maks real they have done numerous studies on it its just most people who claim to know it are full of crap

For something to be taken as a valid study it would need to be in a controlled, monitored environment. You would need various test subjects some not being hit at all and being used as a control group, a percentage being hit in places that are not considered dim mak zones and some being hit by masters on these deadly points. You would need to constantly monitor all three groups for the effects on their respiratory system, their central nervous system, body temperature, kidney function etc. And then the results would have to be published along with the testing criteria for others to interrogate.

To my knowledge none of this has every been done, can you point me to where these studies can be found?

[sanjuro_ronin]

there was this one book i read a few months back i dorn remember the name but ill look for it later on today
anyway the author was ceptical abou dim mak so he was in china and asked an old master to preform a dim mak strike on him the master abile and poke dhim in the stomach the strike winded him temporarily and almost buckled him a few minutes later he recovered and thought nothing more of it
two days passed and he had to be rushed to the hospital because he was having extreme chest pains and almost died lol

he said to his exact words that he wants to see more studies done on dim mak but he wont participate in them
dim maks not a joke its proven in chinese medicine the points that are striked arecavaties you dont want to have attacked

I may be mistaking but that may have been "Martial Musings" by Robert Smith.
I recall that story and I have that book.
Of course I have many books so I may be confusing the author, but I am pretty sure it was Robert and when it comes to TCMA, you must take what Robert says with a grain of salt and if I recall correctly, The "dim mak" expert did it on one of his students, but I am not 100% sure on that account.

That said, Dim mak is simply vital point striking and every MA has it.
Any more esoteric views of Dim Mak ( Qi disruptions for example) are just anecdotal until shown to be effective in a real fight.
The delayed death touch stories are just that, stories that have been out of propotion, it is obviously possible to hit someone and they die days after, there are many medical reason for that, none of them have anything to do with Qi.

[sanjuro_ronin]

For something to be taken as a valid study it would need to be in a controlled, monitored environment. You would need various test subjects some not being hit at all and being used as a control group, a percentage being hit in places that are not considered dim mak zones and some being hit by masters on these deadly points. You would need to constantly monitor all three groups for the effects on their respiratory system, their central nervous system, body temperature, kidney function etc. And then the results would have to be published along with the testing criteria for others to interrogate.

To my knowledge none of this has every been done, can you point me to where these studies can be found?

There were some studies done along the lines of the accupressure ones as they related to shiatsu and accpunture, they showed that by pressing or striking certain points that a response was illcited, of course that has zero to do with what can happen in a fight.

[JPinAZ]

Look at the power platform of the following,

look at the take down start at 1.45/2.43
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA_AuE5Z0ZA

compare with
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DUpiPdTZKY

What type of power platform WC has which is at least par with this? if there is no such a power platform, the art is in big trouble.

Ok, the 2 videos use totally differnt fighting and body methods than WCK. So, what is the point of comparing the 2 videos in relation to WC?
What power platform of WC are you referring too?

[Hendrik]

Ok, the 2 videos use totally differnt fighting and body methods than WCK. So, what is the point of comparing the 2 videos in relation to WC?
What power platform of WC are you referring too?



simple, is your WCK capable to follow /deal with what they do when they applied their power on you? just to be par or neutalized them? what kind /type of power platform do your wck have to do that? where is your training is from , which wck set?

i am not asking for a move or a technics. I am asking how do one evoke that power when the opponents execute their technics on you and where in your wck you got train to have to type of power?


For example, seriously can one's forward intending YJKYM deal with these attacked?

[JPinAZ]

simple, is your WCK capable to follow /deal with what they do when they applied their power on you? just to be par or neutalized them? what kind of power platform do your wck have? where is your training is from , which wck set?

i am not asking for a move or a technics. I am asking how do one evoke power when the opponents execute their technics on you and where in your wck you got train to have to type of power?

For example, seriously can one's forward intending YJKYM deal with these attacked?

Still not 100% sure what you are talking about with 'evoke power' or 'power platform' - are you talking root? structure? ability to transmit force through hitting? How I am bridging?
Power platform just seems so vague..

Besides that, I deal with these types of takedowns by controlling my own space with solid structures and reference points, using correct angles, footwork and positioning (duei ying/jeui ying), gate theories, box theories, etc. Then there's just proper bridging strategies. All of these things allow me to have a good chance of letting the person get that close in the first place. It's not just my YJKYM that deals with these types of things (but it does support all my actions. Basically, you have to be able to root energies).

Are you suggesting if I have proper YJKYM, it's all I need and then I can't be taken down?
And could you please answer your own questions? how do you deal with the same type of attacks as shown in the videos?

[t_niehoff]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tib2Urowsdc

Both he and his students were completely convinced that the junk he was teaching them was real. This is what happens when you train in a little cocoon, and don't venture out into the real world to test things out.

While this is an extreme example, it's not really that much different than the things that many of the people post here. Just look at how many people talk about the skill of this or that grandmaster, but there is absolutely no evidence of this person doing anything skillful outside of the training facility with his own students or students attending a seminar.

It's also not that much different than those who claim certain techniques (can we say standing joint locks) are valid, although there is next to no evidence of these things working on a consistent basis.

And yes, this guy was talking crap about MMA being a sport with rules and how he had actually fought many times on the street and was also undefeated in over 200 no rules matches... and, until this match, there was no evidence of his skills, except as "felt" by his students. Sound familiar?

It is very easy to tell what is real or not: are you actually seeing it done consistently in fighting and against skilled people? If yes, then it is real or true. If no, then it is bullsh1t.

[monji112000]

It is very easy to tell what is real or not: are you actually seeing it done consistently in fighting and against skilled people? If yes, then it is real or true. If no, then it is bullsh1t.
hate to burst your bubble but real like the truth is a myth. Its relative, and therefore can't be simplified in that manner. Whats real to you isn't real to me. What's the truth to you isn't the same as what I perceive as the truth. Thats why people say you must experience and test things on your own. Based on how smart and hard to you test things.. you come to a better truth or reality of a concept.
Nobody thinks whatever style or training method they do isn't real. You may claim to be at better position to judge whats real than me.. but hey I don't believe that you are.
:rolleyes: Everyone's **** stinks. Some stink less than others.. :o

[t_niehoff]

hate to burst your bubble but real like the truth is a myth. Its relative, and therefore can't be simplified in that manner. Whats real to you isn't real to me. What's the truth to you isn't the same as what I perceive as the truth. Thats why people say you must experience and test things on your own. Based on how smart and hard to you test things.. you come to a better truth or reality of a concept.
Nobody thinks whatever style or training method they do isn't real. You may claim to be at better position to judge whats real than me.. but hey I don't believe that you are.
:rolleyes: Everyone's **** stinks. Some stink less than others.. :o

The truth-is-relative view is utter nonsense. It's not some subjective concept. If it were, the world would come crashing down -- there would be no consistency, we couldn't know anything with certainty, etc. We all operate in the same, real world and are subject to it. Whether something is true or not can be judged from evidence and sound reasoning.

But some people use that truth-is-relative view to justify their beliefs held despite the evidence.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Truth is relative and subjective, especially in the realm of physical performance.
How fast can you run the 100 meters?
How much can you deadlift?

[Hendrik]

Besides that, I deal with these types of takedowns by controlling my own space with solid structures and reference points, using correct angles, footwork and positioning (duei ying/jeui ying), gate theories, box theories, etc.
Then there's just proper bridging strategies. All of these things allow me to have a good chance of letting the person get that close in the first place.


those are right intellectually.

however, IMHO, after the contact , it is beyond these.

ask Dale or Terence what is the chance for one just to force par with the above discription.

[Knifefighter]

Truth is relative and subjective, especially in the realm of physical performance.
How fast can you run the 100 meters?
How much can you deadlift?
How, exactly, is running the 100 meters in 9.5 seconds or deadlifting 650 lbs. relative and subjective? Seems pretty objective to me.

[sanjuro_ronin]

How, exactly, is running the 100 meters in 9.5 seconds or deadlifting 650 lbs. relative and subjective? Seems pretty objective to me.

Can you do it?
My reality is that I can't run the 100 under 10, Bolts reality is that he can, and then some.

[Knifefighter]

Can you do it?
My reality is that I can't run the 100 under 10, Bolts reality is that he can, and then some.

And that is completely objective... he can do it, you can't. All the pretend running in the world is not going to allow you to do it, just as all the pretend training is not going to make the pretend, theoretical non-fighters able to fight.

[monji112000]

The truth-is-relative view is utter nonsense. It's not some subjective concept. If it were, the world would come crashing down -- there would be no consistency, we couldn't know anything with certainty, etc. We all operate in the same, real world and are subject to it. Whether something is true or not can be judged from evidence and sound reasoning.

But some people use that truth-is-relative view to justify their beliefs held despite the evidence.
again you have no idea what you are talking about. Its not a black and white issue.. as nothing is in life. lets take an example:
You shoot my dog in the head, while I stand next to you. although this may seem like the truth , a real, factual statement it may not be. that depends on the perspective that each person has who witnessed the event. You could say that you out of self-defence killed my dog. I could say that because you attacked me , my dog defended me and was murded by you. Who is telling the truth? we both are. Its all in the eye of the person viewing the subject. You have a person who interprets his experiences in martial arts wrong, it leads to a misunderstanding. What defines wrong? well that again is relative to what you expect to gain. This is why science has very little concrete ideas. Everything is relative and questionable.
Is dim mak real? well what is dim mak? Can I kill some by hitting them in the nose? Can I kill them by hitting them in the leg? I can kill you by hitting you in the leg.. does that make it dim mak ?

[sanjuro_ronin]

And that is completely objective... he can do it, you can't. All the pretend running in the world is not going to allow you to do it, just as all the pretend training is not going to make the pretend, theoretical non-fighters able to fight.

Granted, but my point and I think what was monjiis, was that a person can't base reality on what he can do, especially in the physical realm, maybe his present reality, but not reality for the rest.

[monji112000]

Granted, but my point and I think what was monjiis, was that a person can't base reality on what he can do, especially in the physical realm, maybe his present reality, but not reality for the rest.
the point I was trying to make is that you can't expect everyone to agree on what is real, specifically in the world of martial arts. For all we know maybe that old guy thinks although he was hurt, he won on some level. Its more than possible..
Maybe he thinks that although he was hurt, his chi protected him from major damage.. or that his chi wasn't properly cultivated. No matter how hard you try to explain something to people, we will always see it differently. Its very common to talk to people who get the crap kicked out of them in a fight.. and they say well if I just did (insert something) then I could have knocked that guy out. Even after watching a video of themselves getting owned we (myself included) we can't let go, to some extent, our perspective. So lets say I am a drunken kung fu artist, who goes and competes in a local MMA event. I take my special potion, do my chi kung, practice my form, do my partner training. I lose but, on some level I will rarely if ever see that maybe MT is more of a practical art to train for this event. Maybe after several .. MAYBE .. a normal person would come to that realization. Nothing is truly subjective or objective. Even computers are not 100% objective. Is that a 1 or a 0.. well depends on how you look at it. is it on or off? again depends on how you look at it.
;)

[monji112000]

Can you do it?
My reality is that I can't run the 100 under 10, Bolts reality is that he can, and then some.

i can run much faster than that. You can too... think real hard about it. if I were to run 10 mph how fast am I running, in the most real, objective, accurate method of measuring my speed. Don't forget that I'm running on a rock that is already moving. AGAIN PERSPECTIVE!

[Lucas]

you can't expect everyone to agree on what is real

no doubt, women teach that lesson real well.....

[Pacman]

*high five*


no doubt, women teach that lesson real well.....

[JPinAZ]

those are right intellectually.

however, IMHO, after the contact , it is beyond these.


I know those are right intellectually, that's why I listed them :) And I have proven to myself that they work in real life too, not just intellectualizing. These things don't change once there is contact. A lot of the concepts I listed happen after contact/engagement is made. If you believe I have it all wrong, please explain..


ask Dale or Terence what is the chance for one just to force par with the above discription.

I am asking you the questions, not those guys. I answered your questions, but you have not answered mine. Here they are again:

Still not 100% sure what you are talking about with 'evoke power' or 'power platform' - are you talking root? structure? ability to transmit force through hitting? How I am bridging?
Power platform just seems so vague..

Are you suggesting if I have proper YJKYM, it's all I need and then I can't be taken down?
How do you deal with the same type of attacks as shown in the videos?

And another one:
What do you mean by 'force par'?

[Yoshiyahu]

You make and excellent point...wow...thats great...



the point I was trying to make is that you can't expect everyone to agree on what is real, specifically in the world of martial arts. For all we know maybe that old guy thinks although he was hurt, he won on some level. Its more than possible..
Maybe he thinks that although he was hurt, his chi protected him from major damage.. or that his chi wasn't properly cultivated. No matter how hard you try to explain something to people, we will always see it differently. Its very common to talk to people who get the crap kicked out of them in a fight.. and they say well if I just did (insert something) then I could have knocked that guy out. Even after watching a video of themselves getting owned we (myself included) we can't let go, to some extent, our perspective. So lets say I am a drunken kung fu artist, who goes and competes in a local MMA event. I take my special potion, do my chi kung, practice my form, do my partner training. I lose but, on some level I will rarely if ever see that maybe MT is more of a practical art to train for this event. Maybe after several .. MAYBE .. a normal person would come to that realization. Nothing is truly subjective or objective. Even computers are not 100% objective. Is that a 1 or a 0.. well depends on how you look at it. is it on or off? again depends on how you look at it.
;)

[Hendrik]

I


I am asking you the questions, not those guys. I answered your questions, but you have not answered mine. Here they are again:





I hope Dale and Terence share their perspective since they do BJJ.



My answer for you on Power generation platform can be analogy to racing with a Four Wheel Drive SUV in a hill side snow land. one can be intellect on all sort of things and theory. however, if the car one drive is not a Four Wheel Drive SUV, forget about all the intellecture stuffs such as time, dimension.....Ying Yang....keep distance... stratergy... ..reasoning.

it just doesnt work in real life.


So, my point is I am talking what kind of power generation platform such as a four wheel drive or two wheel drive vehicle. while your answers are on how to drive a car in your way.

[JPinAZ]

one can be intellect on all sort of things and theory.
I couldn't agree more! Isn't this what you are doing? You never answered my questions. And my questions were directly in how you use your power generation whatever to defend against things like in the video.

All you did was talk about snow, 2wd and 4wd, ask this person or that person.. Doesn't really answer anything. Ok, I get it, you don't have an answer.

[Hendrik]

I

All you did was talk about snow, 2wd and 4wd, ask this person or that person.. Doesn't really answer anything. Ok, I get it, you don't have an answer.



My answer for you on Power generation platform can be analogy to racing with a Four Wheel Drive SUV in a hill side snow land. one can be intellect on all sort of things and theory. however, if the car one drive is not a Four Wheel Drive SUV, forget about all the intellecture stuffs such as time, dimension.....Ying Yang....keep distance... stratergy... ..reasoning.

it just doesnt work in real life.


So, my point is I am talking what kind of power generation platform such as a four wheel drive or two wheel drive vehicle. while your answers are on how to drive a car in your way.


That is my answer for you. But you dont read it or dont like to read it. That is fine with me.

For those who knows about 4WD and 2WD. they knows what I am talking about.

[JPinAZ]

That is my answer for you. But you dont read it or dont like to read it. That is fine with me.

For those who knows about 4WD and 2WD. they knows what I am talking about.

Well, I was an engineer in the auto industry when I lived in Detroit, so I know something about cars. And I have done a lot of custom work to my 4x4, so I know something about that too. And your analogy still doesn't mean krap to me.
Are you trying to say I should act like I have 4 legs some of the time and 2 legs some other times?
I wonder if anyone here knows what you are talking about.

I asked you to describe how you use your 'power generation' to defend against the attacks in the videos (as you asked of me) , and you didn't have an answer. Instead, you talk about cars. Are you saying you're just going to run them over in your honda?? :rolleyes:

[Liddel]

The truth-is-relative view is utter nonsense. It's not some subjective concept. If it were, the world would come crashing down -- there would be no consistency, we couldn't know anything with certainty, etc. We all operate in the same, real world and are subject to it. Whether something is true or not can be judged from evidence and sound reasoning.

This assumes everyone has sound reasoning or that those that do, consider it to be the same 'sound reasoning'.

I would have thought a guy with a physics degree would be a little more open -
If there is no universal time and space-time binds us all together. Then there is no universal truth.



But some people use that truth-is-relative view to justify their beliefs held despite the evidence.

Yes thats a sad fact but it doesnt discount that truth is relative, it only highlights that there can be other contributing factors in what people believe.

Pretty deep discussion for a 'object lesson' thread :)

DREW

[Yoshiyahu]

So how does one develop four wheen drive? what is four wheel drive in retrospect to wing chun. how do you develop a power plantform...share your opinin hendrik and do not dare say asked your sifu.


I hope Dale and Terence share their perspective since they do BJJ.



My answer for you on Power generation platform can be analogy to racing with a Four Wheel Drive SUV in a hill side snow land. one can be intellect on all sort of things and theory. however, if the car one drive is not a Four Wheel Drive SUV, forget about all the intellecture stuffs such as time, dimension.....Ying Yang....keep distance... stratergy... ..reasoning.

it just doesnt work in real life.


So, my point is I am talking what kind of power generation platform such as a four wheel drive or two wheel drive vehicle. while your answers are on how to drive a car in your way.

[Hendrik]

So how does one develop four wheen drive? what is four wheel drive in retrospect to wing chun. how do you develop a power plantform...share your opinin hendrik and do not dare say asked your sifu.


I dont take threathening.

so,
Dont ask me, ask your sifu. :D


If you dont like it you can ask Dale to explain you as an alternative on his BJJ perspective on your WCK.

[Hendrik]

Well, I was an engineer in the auto industry when I lived in Detroit, so I know something about cars. And I have done a lot of custom work to my 4x4, so I know something about that too. And your analogy still doesn't mean krap to me.
Are you trying to say I should act like I have 4 legs some of the time and 2 legs some other times?
I wonder if anyone here knows what you are talking about.

I asked you to describe how you use your 'power generation' to defend against the attacks in the videos (as you asked of me) , and you didn't have an answer. Instead, you talk about cars. Are you saying you're just going to run them over in your honda?? :rolleyes:



Ok, since you are the expert in 4wd, please tell us what is the different between the 2wd and 4wd. how is the 4wd get all the power even if one wheel is sliding or jamming. and how is the 2 wd end up to be in the one wheel stuck situation?



Can your SLT/SNT or Advance SLT training support and prepare you to get you out of trouble when you waist are hug?

So are you a 4WD or a 2WD?

[JPinAZ]

Still didn't answer a dam thing. This discussion is useless since you refuse to discuss. Obviously, you can't even answer your own questions. Sounds like theoretical pondering to me.

FWIW, yes, my SNT training can help me get out of a waist grab (understanding 6 gate and 4 gate Tin Yan Dei helps here). Even better, it also helps prevent them as well!
What about yours?

BTW, I'm not a car, I am a person. I have to 2 arms, 2 hand, 2 legs and 2 feet and I use them to kick but :)
Your analogy is as useless as this discussion.

[Hendrik]

Still didn't answer a dam thing. This discussion is useless since you refuse to discuss.......


You dont need a discussion. you just need the world turns according to you.


BTW


my SNT training can help me get out of a waste grab (understanding 6 gate and 4 gate Tin Yan Dei helps here). Even better, it also helps prevent them as well!


Go tell this to Dale and other BJJ or mmA guys and see if they buy your story.

Good luck!

[LSWCTN1]

I wonder if anyone here knows what you are talking about.
:

i have gradually began to notice with Hendrik that a lot of what he talks about is universal to most wck lineages, or at least should be!

Sure, he can be extremely evasive - but what TCMA doesnt have characters like that?!?!

people have to remember that English, for Hendrik, is his 2nd (or 3rd or 4th?) language. He isnt going to be able to communicate in it as fluently as his mother tongue. In fact, i honestly believe that Hendrik has a LOT to offer to other forum members - it would be lovely if his posts were a bit clearer and a bit more concise, but if that cant be helped then i think that many can benefit from re-reading what he writes.

if people stop bagging on him then he may open up a little more a share more of his system with us - from what i understand Cho Gar wck is one of the most closely guarded styles.

i may be biased, because i have always liked his historical articles (which do seem to be written in a much better way...). Who knows whether his findings are true or not - he doesnt always claim that they are - they are his interpretation based on his research and his understanding.

much like how our wing chun should be - we learn what we learn then we go out and attempt to prove or disprove the theories (or actions, or motions) by investigating them (in a live setting in this case)

i for one think that Hendrik is an invaluable member of this forum

[JPinAZ]

Hendrik rarely, if any, shares something of value. He hints at this and that, but when asked to expand, points to the clouds, plays a song, pets his dog, whatever. Sure, his english is bad, which doesn't help, but really, that's not the main problem with this guy. I'm seeing he really has nothing to share and is a bit crazy as well.
He makes his comments about 2wd, 4wd, hip this, hip that, power generation, etc. I have asked him 4 times now to eleborate, and he can't. But he sure is quick tell me that what I wrote is wrong, won't work, go talk to so-and-so, etc.

He sure wants to act like he has all the answers, but he never shares. It's becasuse he's clueless. He says how sure he is that his WCK is missing stuff that was there in the 1800's. IMO, he is searching for answers and uses this forum to grab whatever info he can. That's why he asks all these silly questions, but gives no answers.

You say not to bag on him, now that's funny. There's not need to bag on him, the poor guy is so lost, it would be like beating a handicapped person with thier own wheelchair..

[bennyvt]

does the car have two or four wheels. Is the antenna positioned to recieve the right flow of power. This you must ask yourself to fully understand why the birds fly south in winter.

[Hendrik]

Hendrik rarely, if any, shares something of value.

He hints at this and that, but when asked to expand, points to the clouds, plays a song, pets his dog, whatever. .


You are perfectly correct when you see thing with your view angle.



However, those have put effort in their art and pay detail attention to reality will greatly appreciate the following information. and in fact this information could even save 10 years or more of practice solidly.

http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=953697&postcount=64

But, you might not see a thing in my post. Why? ask yourself do you know how to handle your hip? have you ever work on it? or you have never think what is your hip doing when you do your SLT or WCK.

[Yoshiyahu]

I dont take threathening.

so,
Dont ask me, ask your sifu. :D


If you dont like it you can ask Dale to explain you as an alternative on his BJJ perspective on your WCK.


Who's threating you hendrik? What i said was

So how does one develop four wheen drive? what is four wheel drive in retrospect to wing chun. how do you develop a power plantform...share your opinin hendrik and do not dare say asked your sifu.

Where is the Threat at? I am begging you to stop saying, to Asked someone else or meditate on it when you can answer your own babbling questions.

Hendrik your statements sound metaphyiscal and mystical at best. Your analogies are totally unrelated to your premises. Your statements are incoherent jargon that sounds like the rambling of mad man at times. But under the Facade of your methaphors that have no rhyme nor reason I believe you to be an intelligent person. Maybe English is your second langauge. But they have great langauge translators online for you to use. Stop trying to sound like a grand wizard PHD and keep your terminology simple. If your not that fluent in english then use the common vernacular. Speaking basic is far superior to speaking scholarly.


Many are frustrated by your many utterings. I wish you share something useful. AS for using your Sil Lim Tao or Yee Gee Kim Yeung Ma to stand there and with stand a rushing 250lbs man from tackling you by simply rooting to ground this is highly inconcevieable. If such a feat were possible it would be done by someone who practice WC 8 hours a day for like 30+ years I am sure. Someone with five to ten years of experience who train 4 to 5 times a week for two or three hours a time would not possess such a Kung. Anyway. Its incredible. Why stand there an take someone charging you. WC is about deflection and least resistance. WC would redirect the force not stand there an take it head on. If someone is running toward you with a rolling refrigarator are you going to stand in YGKYM with your hands out to stop the force. I for one would simply move out the way. Why stand there an let a grappler grab your hips. What about someone who practices ShuaJiao. Will you let him grab you. Why not move or evade or redirect force. Would you let a tiger fighter grapple you what about an eagle claw fighter? No you will advoid his skill set and try to adminster yours advantageously. What about Someone who practices Muay Thai, would you stand there and take the kick to your ribs or shins. No, you turn the force off, jamm it or evade. Would you take a boxers jab to the face because your so rooted. No you wouldn't. This is crazy talk, Man I know you wouldn't stand there with your arms chambered while some skilled Wrestlers shoots for your waist or hips and tackles you. Forget about a skilled fighters. Do you think this will work against a Lionbacker? I doubt you believe this yourself. I am not even a ground fighter. I wish you would give me open season to charge straight in. I a novice at Grappling would take you down no problem. YGKYM is not design for that type of rooting. There is rooting but not for sake of not being pliable.

WC is an striking art. Everything we do from Intercepting, delfection, trapping, evasion, jamming, stop hits, stop kicks, etc are to set up the hit. Our goal is to strike first, strike hard and strike our opponent more until they are subdued. Not stand there and take a hit. I want to know if you believe you can stand there while someone runs into your mid section an tackles you? If you really believe this is possible I would love to see it. Show me. The proof is in the pudding.


Still didn't answer a dam thing. This discussion is useless since you refuse to discuss. Obviously, you can't even answer your own questions. Sounds like theoretical pondering to me.

FWIW, yes, my SNT training can help me get out of a waste grab (understanding 6 gate and 4 gate Tin Yan Dei helps here). Even better, it also helps prevent them as well!
What about yours?

BTW, I'm not a car, I am a person. I have to 2 arms, 2 hand, 2 legs and 2 feet and I use them to kick but :)
Your analogy is as useless as this discussion.


Aww my friend frustrations sets in...


does the car have two or four wheels. Is the antenna positioned to recieve the right flow of power. This you must ask yourself to fully understand why the birds fly south in winter.

Great Great I totally agree....

[Hendrik]

you will never see what I present if you continous wearing you blue glasses.



Who's threating you hendrik? What i said was


Where is the Threat at? I am begging you to stop saying, to Asked someone else or meditate on it when you can answer your own babbling questions.

Hendrik your statements sound metaphyiscal and mystical at best. Your analogies are totally unrelated to your premises. Your statements are incoherent jargon that sounds like the rambling of mad man at times. But under the Facade of your methaphors that have no rhyme nor reason I believe you to be an intelligent person. Maybe English is your second langauge. But they have great langauge translators online for you to use. Stop trying to sound like a grand wizard PHD and keep your terminology simple. If your not that fluent in english then use the common vernacular. Speaking basic is far superior to speaking scholarly.


Many are frustrated by your many utterings. I wish you share something useful. AS for using your Sil Lim Tao or Yee Gee Kim Yeung Ma to stand there and with stand a rushing 250lbs man from tackling you by simply rooting to ground this is highly inconcevieable. If such a feat were possible it would be done by someone who practice WC 8 hours a day for like 30+ years I am sure. Someone with five to ten years of experience who train 4 to 5 times a week for two or three hours a time would not possess such a Kung. Anyway. Its incredible. Why stand there an take someone charging you. WC is about deflection and least resistance. WC would redirect the force not stand there an take it head on. If someone is running toward you with a rolling refrigarator are you going to stand in YGKYM with your hands out to stop the force. I for one would simply move out the way. Why stand there an let a grappler grab your hips. What about someone who practices ShuaJiao. Will you let him grab you. Why not move or evade or redirect force. Would you let a tiger fighter grapple you what about an eagle claw fighter? No you will advoid his skill set and try to adminster yours advantageously. What about Someone who practices Muay Thai, would you stand there and take the kick to your ribs or shins. No, you turn the force off, jamm it or evade. Would you take a boxers jab to the face because your so rooted. No you wouldn't. This is crazy talk, Man I know you wouldn't stand there with your arms chambered while some skilled Wrestlers shoots for your waist or hips and tackles you. Forget about a skilled fighters. Do you think this will work against a Lionbacker? I doubt you believe this yourself. I am not even a ground fighter. I wish you would give me open season to charge straight in. I a novice at Grappling would take you down no problem. YGKYM is not design for that type of rooting. There is rooting but not for sake of not being pliable.

WC is an striking art. Everything we do from Intercepting, delfection, trapping, evasion, jamming, stop hits, stop kicks, etc are to set up the hit. Our goal is to strike first, strike hard and strike our opponent more until they are subdued. Not stand there and take a hit. I want to know if you believe you can stand there while someone runs into your mid section an tackles you? If you really believe this is possible I would love to see it. Show me. The proof is in the pudding.




Aww my friend frustrations sets in...



Great Great I totally agree....

[Yoshiyahu]

you will never see what I present if you continous wearing you blue glasses.

Who the hell is wearing blue glasses...please anybody tell me what this means? Can anybody understand what the H e double hockey sticks he means?


Ha ha...funny more cryptic response from Mr.Miyagi.


Back to my original Questions?

How does one Loosen up the hips...If not by chi kung, strecthing, practicing etc. How does one Loosen the hips.

An what the heck is a Platform? Tell me plainly?

[Hendrik]

Just to be plain straight forward with you.

Advance TCMA IMA is based on realization, with you present condition, you cant enter the door. So, may be tomorrow, may be next year, may be never in a life time... who knows?

Your issue is you keep thinking on something you dont have good foundation to begin with. and get stuck and get all those funny emotional thinking which is off the track.

Am I serious to ask you to go Bai si? Yes. and I am not trying to screw you but trying to help you.


Baisi in the Western world is both a test and a short cut.

a test is to test how big one's ego is. if the ego is so big such that one cant accept one needs to learn from a master humbly. Then so be the limitation of the attainment of one's art.

a short cut is there is nothing faster then a sifu who knows the art to give a five minutes teaching then 10 years of book reading and thinking.



As for loose the hip, those are the basic of the basic. disregard of if one is doing WCK or Qigong or even dancing.

If one have no clue on how to handle the hip the way how the art required. Forget about mastering the art.


You like to have a big laundry list on Fajing, Rooting......all those stuffs and even argue the heck out of everything. but look at reality, dont those who know how to root has to be the master of hip handling? otherwise everything is has no based at all but arguement which is wasting of life.



I said these above to hope you dont waste you life on some others' fantasy preaching.

TCMA IMA such as WCK is not something one can learn by mimic-ing or lots of talk or brute force training, there are too many spending a life time training but not even started yet.

Power platform is something if you have never known it you will never know. But with a good sifu, within 5 mins you will say "$hit why dont I do that way in the past 10000 years?"



I dont know how you will take my post above which will be the last time I reply to you.

however, believe me I am trying to help you to use you mind and pointing a direction for you. so hopefully somedays you become a master. definitely not to screw you.


Yes, there is other paradigm which you are not able to grasp yet. until you reach that level or paradigm you will not know what i have to said I have said it and even more. In fact I have given up lots of details data.

if you dont change your way of thinking then it almost can forcast your art is not going to go any where but stuck like today even 20 years from today.


Well, it is your life, up to you. and I can do only this much to help.




Who the hell is wearing blue glasses...please anybody tell me what this means? Can anybody understand what the H e double hockey sticks he means?


Ha ha...funny more cryptic response from Mr.Miyagi.


Back to my original Questions?

How does one Loosen up the hips...If not by chi kung, strecthing, practicing etc. How does one Loosen the hips.

An what the heck is a Platform? Tell me plainly?

[LSWCTN1]

just very quickly before i go to work...


[QUOTE=JPinAZ;953771]Hendrik rarely, if any, shares something of value. It's becasuse he's clueless. He says how sure he is that his WCK is missing stuff that was there in the 1800's.

i think your wrong, to be blunt - 2 sets of eyes viewing the same thing often see something different.

also, of course wck is radically different from 1850, hell even 1950 - it has evolved.

lets be completely honest here - yip man and yuen kay san have the same ancestry when you go a little further back, they both learnt the same art. one of the lineages does the wing chun 'stance' completely wrong. which one? i dont know, but they are so different. thats not to say that neither are effective - they both are extremely (or can be) but one has adapted and one is the original. One HAS to be wrong


AS for using your Sil Lim Tao or Yee Gee Kim Yeung Ma to stand there and with stand a rushing 250lbs man from tackling you by simply rooting to ground this is highly inconcevieable. If such a feat were possible it would be done by someone who practice WC 8 hours a day for like 30+ years I am sure. Someone with five to ten years of experience who train 4 to 5 times a week for two or three hours a time would not possess such a Kung. Anyway. Its incredible. Why stand there an take someone charging you. WC is about deflection and least resistance.

http://www.alanorr.com/htdocs/articles/wcpowerarticle.html

not easy, but not as difficult as you are making out. Also, 'WC is about deflection and least resistance' but it also about taking the fastest route. why evade, block, then strike when you can stay (as he comes, receive) and just hit?

sometimes the kuen kuit can contradict :eek:

[bennyvt]

ok hendrik i understand. You need to go to a sifu to learn. You cant learn from just reading. My question is, why the **** are you on this forum then. You only ask questions which by your thinking the answers would be useless any way. If you wont answer the question why post on the topic. Or are you just doing us a service by making us think about what we are doing. you must be such a selfless person to make time for all us lost souls on behalf me all of up thank you.

[JPinAZ]

just very quickly before i go to work...

i think your wrong, to be blunt - 2 sets of eyes viewing the same thing often see something different.

also, of course wck is radically different from 1850, hell even 1950 - it has evolved.

lets be completely honest here - yip man and yuen kay san have the same ancestry when you go a little further back, they both learnt the same art. one of the lineages does the wing chun 'stance' completely wrong. which one? i dont know, but they are so different. thats not to say that neither are effective - they both are extremely (or can be) but one has adapted and one is the original. One HAS to be wrong

As far as Henrik, from what I am gathering here, there are very few here that post and find something useful from Hendrik's rambings. He post a lot of ideas and questions, but really no substance. His last post proves my point exactly. Basically, he's saying "you need to find a good sifu. If you're not good at the basics, you're not good. If you don't even understand the basics of the hip, you don't know anything" - no sh!t Captian Obvious! Boy, what a relevation..
----
Not all lines of WC agree that they have evolved in the past 50 or even 100 years. Maybe some drills/training methods, but that's just curriculum. IMO, if one truely understands the concepts and pricipals of the system, there is no interpretation. And, if you are guided by them, things should always look similar. Of course there is personal expression/preference, but that's something else. Teach or copy that expression/preference/interpretation and yes, things change very quickly.
I have other theories why you see what you see regarding diffetent stances/expressions even in the same line after such a short period of time, but that isn't true for all lineages. But it does tend to be more obvious in YM lines even since YM.


http://www.alanorr.com/htdocs/articles/wcpowerarticle.html

not easy, but not as difficult as you are making out. Also, 'WC is about deflection and least resistance' but it also about taking the fastest route. why evade, block, then strike when you can stay (as he comes, receive) and just hit?

sometimes the kuen kuit can contradict :eek:

Don't have time to read that article. As far as evade, block and strike I agree. I am taught and believe it is more correctly said "engage, neutralize, maintain"

[Hendrik]

ok hendrik i understand. You need to go to a sifu to learn. You cant learn from just reading. My question is, why the **** are you on this forum then.
.



Why I am in the forum? are you out of your mind?

There are people like Hunt1 and Dale..... who we all discuss on reality cant you see that if you not belongs to that group, stop complaining like a crying baby.

[Hendrik]

As far as Henrik, from what I am gathering here, there are very few here that post and find something useful from Hendrik's rambings. He post a lot of ideas and questions, but really no substance. His last post proves my point exactly. Basically, he's saying "you need to find a good sifu. If you're not good at the basics, you're not good. If you don't even understand the basics of the hip, you don't know anything" - no sh!t Captian Obvious! Boy, what a relevation..




You are right from your view angle.




However, did you know how to loosen your hip? have you ever learn how to loosen your hip while in YJKYM instead of standing there like a woodern dummy?


if not then knowing how to loosen your hip is a 1000000000000000 miles improvement in your art.

How much is worthed for one to discover one's blind spot and make it handle able or free from the blind spot.

For me, that is invalueable.




As far as evade, block and strike I agree. I am taught and believe it is more correctly said "engage, neutralize, maintain"


how can one do these precisely without a very good handling on the hip?

[Pacman]

hendrik. what is your background? who did you learn WC from?

[JPinAZ]

You are right from your view angle.

However, did you know how to loosen your hip? have you ever learn how to loosen your hip while in YJKYM instead of standing there like a woodern dummy?

if not then knowing how to loosen your hip is a 1000000000000000 miles improvement in your art.

How much is worthed for one to discover one's blind spot and make it handle able or free from the blind spot.

For me, that is invalueable.

how can one do these precisely without a very good handling on the hip?

Ok, you want an answer since you are clearly searching without one of your own, here you go:
You keep asking about this hip thing like it's some new revelation. You are talking about something very basic IMO. Of course I know how to loosen my hip, that is something you should be taught very early on. Maybe it takes a little time for the body to learn and become habit, but c'mon, is this all you have?!? Beginner stuff?

You are missing the big picture if you are only focusing on the hip. There is a lot more to WCK body mechanics than that. In HFY, we have a concept of 6-Gate Tien Yan Dei (Heaven/Human/Earth or HHE). In this, the focus isn't only on the hip, but also on the elbow and the knee and how all three operate together - not individually. This concept allows one to be able to handle a striker and grappler, and also handle the height/level changes when the attacker going from high to low, as in your grappler waist grab example. - using the whole body and parts as one, not focusing on just one part

And it's not just the hip while standing in YJKYM that you should focus all your attention on (but it does have it's use), it's in the application that is important here. How can you learn to apply anything if you are standing still in a room by yourself?

To only focus on the hip and think that is all you need is very low level, beginner thinking. And I don't need to talk to Dale or T to get my answers, I have been taught and worked this out for myself. I would ask you what you think of the above and also how you handle grapplers yourself, but I've already asked 4 times already and still no answer from you. It's obviously clear you don't have one, so you keep asking us. Keep focusing on the basics and that hip, you seem to have it all under control.. :rolleyes:

[Hendrik]

OK, you are advance guy and I am just a very little basic low level Guys.


So enlighten us,


Let's talk about very LOW lever stuffs.

How Do you loosen your hip in details?
That simple, and with your previous response I expect you know every details.

If not, then perhaps. what you think is not what I am getting into.


Let's begin with what is Kwa , hip?

and how to loose the hip or Soong Kwa?


and Why is Soong Kwa or Loosen the Kwa is a must for good alignement? What is this Soong Kwa impact to every other things?



Thanks in advance.







Ok, you want an answer since you are clearly searching without one of your own, here you go:
You keep asking about this hip thing like it's some new revelation. You are talking about something very basic IMO. Of course I know how to loosen my hip, that is something you should be taught very early on. Maybe it takes a little time for the body to learn and become habit, but c'mon, is this all you have?!? Beginner stuff?

You are missing the big picture if you are only focusing on the hip. There is a lot more to WCK body mechanics than that. In HFY, we have a concept of 6-Gate Tien Yan Dei (Heaven/Human/Earth or HHE). In this, the focus isn't only on the hip, but also on the elbow and the knee and how all three operate together - not individually. This concept allows one to be able to handle a striker and grappler, and also handle the height/level changes when the attacker going from high to low, as in your grappler waist grab example. - using the whole body and parts as one, not focusing on just one part

And it's not just the hip while standing in YJKYM that you should focus all your attention on (but it does have it's use), it's in the application that is important here. How can you learn to apply anything if you are standing still in a room by yourself?

To only focus on the hip and think that is all you need is very low level, beginner thinking. And I don't need to talk to Dale or T to get my answers, I have been taught and worked this out for myself. I would ask you what you think of the above and also how you handle grapplers yourself, but I've already asked 4 times already and still no answer from you. It's obviously clear you don't have one, so you keep asking us. Keep focusing on the basics and that hip, you seem to have it all under control.. :rolleyes:

[JPinAZ]

Hendrik,

Ok, so you have no answers for my questions. All you are looking for now is a free lunch. I've answered your questions, it's obviously beyond you.

[Hendrik]

Hendrik,

Ok, so you have no answers for my questions. All you are looking for now is a free lunch. I've answered your questions, it's obviously beyond you.



hahaha, you love to argue ... twisting words ..... play mind game.....clever tricks..... isnt it?

Until you share the low level basic of loosing the Hip in details,
your questions are non sense and your big picture is fantasy.


Since I believe you are an advance person, I am waiting for you to describe the details and the discussion can continous.


Sorry to be express direct and honestly.

[Yoshiyahu]

hahaha, you love to argue ... twisting words ..... play mind game.....clever tricks..... isnt it?

Until you share the low level basic of loosing the Hip in details,
your questions are non sense and your big picture is fantasy.


Since I believe you are an advance person, I am waiting for you to describe the details and the discussion can continous.


Sorry to be express direct and honestly.

Hendrick, Wow I thought you were playing Jedi Mind tricks. So my question to Hendrik is How Do you loosen your hip in details? That should be simple, and with your previous Post I expect you to know every detail.


So Hendrik please I humbly asked you to share with me How does one Loosing the Hip?

[Hendrik]

Hendrick, Wow I thought you were playing Jedi Mind tricks. So my question to Hendrik is How Do you loosen your hip in details? That should be simple, and with your previous Post I expect you to know every detail.


So Hendrik please I humbly asked you to share with me How does one Loosing the Hip?


Ok, Let me reveal the key points to you.


1, there are other part of the body needs to be loosen before the HIp.

2, While handling the HIP,

A, there are two specific points needs to be identify.

B, There is a proper direction needs to be known in order to loosen.


Missing the 1, 2, A and B means no precision handling and not a "sure short".



Nope, it is not just Stand there and loosen. or wait long enough and it will get loose. Or twisting around and it will loose or streching around and it will get loose.

NOPE. There is a conditioning process as I describe above for it.
and that process will condition one for both statics and dynamic situation.


Other wise, SLT will not be call SLT or the Key training in key details. and within SLT there are tons of these type of stuffs such that one transform.



and I have to Baisi to learn these so you know, if you never Baisi you will never know Loosen a hip is simple once you have the process. a 5 mins practice and your life will change forever on loosen hip. BUt, if there is no SIFU who really master the stuffs to teach one, forget about it because it is not a localization loosen but a chain effect involve differents key points. similar to dealing with a 4WD transmission and gear box.

Now, Hopefully you can appreciate why I continous to tell people to go BaiSi.
Because I dont want to BS you or others.




OK, I have shared enough details here to show the "beef"






Now, it is the ADVANCE LEVEL JPinAZ turns to describe in detail and fill in the blanks on ------- what I have posts and purposely leave blank above; and explain why it has to do that way, since he is the ADVANCE GUY right?

Anything you want to know, ask JPinAZ, since he is much much much ADVANCE then me.


JPINAZ please, your turn to take over and answer all the basic lower level questions in details.

[Pacman]

just stop. please. just stop.

[goju]

it never will

[JPinAZ]

Haha, I really have no clue what you just wrote. But, it's easy to see there is no 'information' here, and no beef. All you gave a brief list about nothing.

1, there are other part of the body needs to be loosen before the HIp.

JP - Oh yeah, what parts?

2, While handling the HIP,
JP - Huh?

A, there are two specific points needs to be identify.
JP - yeah? what are they?

B, There is a proper direction needs to be known in order to loosen.
JP - oh yes, what is that?

Wow, totally mind blowing... Now it's all so so clear! :rolleyes:
I am still waiting for you answers to my questions I asked days ago. You want to discuss, it has to be a 2-way street. So, how does any of this help you in sparring/application? How much sparring have you done with this loosened hip?

[Hendrik]

I dont expect you to post more then what you post here.

As for sparring applications... do me a favour ; like a baby learn how to stand properly with a loosen hip first before ask any questions.


Talk is Cheap, playing words game is cheap. you cant even handle people in the same class like Dale
disregard of what your fantasy Big picture or gates or Ying Yang... Tien Tee Yan.... all those Chinese mantra.

The bottom line is a Gracie said, every fight going down to ground and you are not different.

Dont belive me, go have a match with Dale's fighters.
or make my day proven your Chinese mantra works in the mmA matches.




So, if you want to discuss, discuss properly, otherwise, go somewhere.



Haha, I really have no clue what you just wrote. But, it's easy to see there is no 'information' here, and no beef. All you gave a brief list about nothing.

1, there are other part of the body needs to be loosen before the HIp.

JP - Oh yeah, what parts?

2, While handling the HIP,
JP - Huh?

A, there are two specific points needs to be identify.
JP - yeah? what are they?

B, There is a proper direction needs to be known in order to loosen.
JP - oh yes, what is that?

Wow, totally mind blowing... Now it's all so so clear! :rolleyes:
I am still waiting for you answers to my questions I asked days ago. You want to discuss, it has to be a 2-way street. So, how does any of this help you in sparring/application? How much sparring have you done with this loosened hip?

[Hendrik]

just stop. please. just stop.



Stop what? arent you the one told me about pressure point and rooting....etc.

if one cant handle one's hip, forget about the BS rooting or issuing power. Forget about it because without hip handling one is just fantasy.


So,
are we disccusing BS fantasy and keeping defending from Dale and Terence, and all the Bus****do.com on the BS or are we willing to present some real deal that even Dale and Terence those pragmatic people will admit WCK has real deal?

You see, one might never win but atleast behave in a such way that at least the opponent will respect one.

[Yoshiyahu]

How does one Loosen Up the Hip???

What parts need to be handled before Hip is loosen up...


Sorry pacman..I know the ramblings upset you!

Pacman when I begin to talk ramblings like hendrik just ignore what i say. I think if i communicate on level no matter how incoherent I sound he will still say I am wrong.

[JPinAZ]

Wow, what a joke.

I can imagine Hendrik at the front desk trying to reserve a room for the night....

"Sir, can I help you"

H - "Yes. I would like a room"

"Ok, do you have any preferences?"

H - “Um, before we speak of preferences, and rooms and stuff, I would first like to knw if you know proper way to deliver my key”

“Sir, I don’t understand”

H - “Of course, because it is very basics stuff. You would need to Bai Si first to be able to deliver key properly or else all room reserves are useless”

“Sir?”

H - “Here let me play song for you” [music plays]

“Sir, do you want a room?”

H - “It is not about room, you must move like this to deliver me a key” [stands still, then wiggles hips]

“Sir, I don’t understand”

“It’s not bout whether I want room or not, can you drive car? Are you a 4wd or 2wd car? Maybe you would like to watch a video, it might help you drive a car!” [plays video]

“sir, this is a hotel, how can I help you”

H - “You must first Bai Si, I already tell you. IMMMMHHHHOOO you must open your kwa to drive car or give me room, watch this!” [loosens and wiggles hips, wiggle wiggle wiggle]

“Sir, do you have something in your pants”

H - “Yes, it’s my kwa! KWAA KWAA KWAA!! See, it’s like a crane and snake! KWAAA!!” [wiggle wiggle wiggle]

“I’m sorry sir, I’m going to have to ask you to leave”

H - “Before you can ask me to leave, you would have to ask some other people first about their loosened kwa. You act like expert of hotel, but you don’t even know about my hips! Watch I’m Elvis!!” [wiggle wiggle wiggle – singing]

“Sir, I’m calling the police”

H - “Before you call police, you must first know proper way to deliver phone call…"

Repeat

You get the idea :p

[Yoshiyahu]

Ha ha really funny I cant imagine anyone would do better. wow....that was great. impressive I totally understood. For a moment i thought it was Hendrik talking in his obscure langauge and crapola.



Wow, what a joke.

I can imagine Hendrik at the front desk trying to reserve a room for the night....

"Sir, can I help you"

H - "Yes. I would like a room"

"Ok, do you have any preferences?"

H - “Um, before we speak of preferences, and rooms and stuff, I would first like to knw if you know proper way to deliver my key”

“Sir, I don’t understand”

H - “Of course, because it is very basics stuff. You would need to Bai Si first to be able to deliver key properly or else all room reserves are useless”

“Sir?”

H - “Here let me play song for you” [music plays]

“Sir, do you want a room?”

H - “It is not about room, you must move like this to deliver me a key” [stands still, then wiggles hips]

“Sir, I don’t understand”

“It’s not bout whether I want room or not, can you drive car? Are you a 4wd or 2wd car? Maybe you would like to watch a video, it might help you drive a car!” [plays video]

“sir, this is a hotel, how can I help you”

H - “You must first Bai Si, I already tell you. IMMMMHHHHOOO you must open your kwa to drive car or give me room, watch this!” [loosens and wiggles hips, wiggle wiggle wiggle]

“Sir, do you have something in your pants”

H - “Yes, it’s my kwa! KWAA KWAA KWAA!! See, it’s like a crane and snake! KWAAA!!” [wiggle wiggle wiggle]

“I’m sorry sir, I’m going to have to ask you to leave”

H - “Before you can ask me to leave, you would have to ask some other people first about their loosened kwa. You act like expert of hotel, but you don’t even know about my hips! Watch I’m Elvis!!” [wiggle wiggle wiggle – singing]

“Sir, I’m calling the police”

H - “Before you call police, you must first know proper way to deliver phone call…"

Repeat

You get the idea :p

[Pacman]

i never said about pressure points etc. i think you are confused


Stop what? arent you the one told me about pressure point and rooting....etc.

if one cant handle one's hip, forget about the BS rooting or issuing power. Forget about it because without hip handling one is just fantasy.


So,
are we disccusing BS fantasy and keeping defending from Dale and Terence, and all the Bus****do.com on the BS or are we willing to present some real deal that even Dale and Terence those pragmatic people will admit WCK has real deal?

You see, one might never win but atleast behave in a such way that at least the opponent will respect one.

[Hendrik]

i never said about pressure points etc. i think you are confused


Doesnt you the one told me how you beat a MMA with pressure points techincs?

In case, I am mis-memory. I appology.


AS I put it clearly, I dont give a Damm on those BOZO fake WCners thinking they are advance or having a magic thinking to cast the MMA away similar to the boxer revolution cult members of china which end up costing the Western Army to capture Beijing.


CAn one present a real deal so that atleast the competitors knows it is making sense, that is very important.

[Hendrik]

How does one Loosen Up the Hip???

What parts need to be handled before Hip is loosen up...




Yoshiyahu,


Being honest and direct, I would not share the rest of the details. As anything good you want it you pays for it. I pay for mine by going Baisi with some one who is a real master. And I suggest you the same. That is just the reality of life.


I posts lots of things here. and again, I can share what I have experience so that others not stay in dark. However, to get what one likes to learn one needs to pay for it. that is not Free and paying makes people appreciate what they learn more too.


So, go learn from someone who can teach you.



But, those who has spend their time in the training will find out from my info that is forsure.

[Pacman]

Doesnt you the one told me how you beat a MMA with pressure points techincs?

In case, I am mis-memory. I appology.

i said that one thing that ground fighting in the sporting context does not take into account are strikes to more sensitive areas--eyes throat groin etc

people often discount this saying you need a high degree of accuracy and so it cant be done.

i said that its not difficult to do when you are wrestling with someone.

btw, telling others to be direct. how many of your posts dont look like the unibombers manifesto? jk :)

[Yoshiyahu]

Okay well then Hendrik if your not going to explain your self shut already about loosen the hip...Your wrong buddy...you have idea what the heck your talking about...



Just own up to it friend.

You said you share so others won't be in the dark....man you aint shared nothing about questions. As for appreciation I appreciate things that are free my friend more.



Yoshiyahu,


Being honest and direct, I would not share the rest of the details. As anything good you want it you pays for it. I pay for mine by going Baisi with some one who is a real master. And I suggest you the same. That is just the reality of life.


I posts lots of things here. and again, I can share what I have experience so that others not stay in dark. However, to get what one likes to learn one needs to pay for it. that is not Free and paying makes people appreciate what they learn more too.


So, go learn from someone who can teach you.



But, those who has spend their time in the training will find out from my info that is forsure.

[JPinAZ]

Ha ha really funny I cant imagine anyone would do better. wow....that was great. impressive I totally understood. For a moment i thought it was Hendrik talking in his obscure langauge and crapola.

Glad you liked it :)
It's clear that the guy slipped out of his straight jacket again!

[Hendrik]

i said that one thing that ground fighting in the sporting context does not take into account are strikes to more sensitive areas--eyes throat groin etc

people often discount this saying you need a high degree of accuracy and so it cant be done.

i said that its not difficult to do when you are wrestling with someone.

btw, telling others to be direct. how many of your posts dont look like the unibombers manifesto? jk :)



OK,

As for direct, sometimes there are reasons that I choose to be indirect, and sometimes I screw up too. however, the goal of to be direct is the norm.

[Hendrik]

Okay well then Hendrik if your not going to explain your self shut already about loosen the hip...Your wrong buddy...you have idea what the heck your talking about...



Just own up to it friend.

You said you share so others won't be in the dark....man you aint shared nothing about questions. As for appreciation I appreciate things that are free my friend more.


I share direction, but I cant walk for others.

For me I am happy if others point me a direction when I am lost because that already safe me lots of energy, and not expect others carry me to my destination.

[Yoshiyahu]

I share direction, but I cant walk for others.

For me I am happy if others point me a direction when I am lost because that already safe me lots of energy, and not expect others carry me to my destination.

Direction means giving someone instructions on how to get there. But you give no directions just mere speculatation and quarries. Please speak plainly...Please provide details.