For Dale or his ilk

[Sihing73]

Hello,

You know I was thinking and I figured since it is highly unlikely that I will ever get the chance to meet and fight with Dale I would propose the following:

Since Dale is such a MMA legend as well as an "original Dog Brother" and apparently knows everything about every martial art out there; I mean he has no problem telling everyone that just about every art, with the exception of MMA is crap :rolleyes: I was thinking perhaps he would be willing to help prove or disprove his viewpoint.

So with that in mind I would like to propose that Dale tap into his doubtless vast resources and come up with someone in the Atlanta, GA or Greenville, SC area who he feels is a great MMA fighter. Then he gets that person to agree to fight and have said fight video taped and put here for all to see. The person chosen must accept that this is a fight and not a "friendly" sparring session, after all one of Dales big concerns is the "ability to make techniques work against resisting opponents intent on doing you harm". Both participants sign a waiver and fight and we see what happens.

How about it Dale? Willing to help set this up, or would you be willing to travel to GA and we could get together ourselves?

If you are willing to try and get together I would even be willing to allow the use of sticks, since you are a stickfighter and such I would be interested in seeing how my Pekiti Tirsia compared with what you know, if you want to keep it empty-hand then I would of course find out if my take on Wing Chun works.........although I already have formed my own opinion; of course in your mind and world experience which contradicts your own is fantasy.

So what do you say? If I lose I would be willing to shut up, but if I were to by some miracle win you would admit that WC does and can work.

[Yoshiyahu]

Who is dale whats his screen name?



Hello,

You know I was thinking and I figured since it is highly unlikely that I will ever get the chance to meet and fight with Dale I would propose the following:

Since Dale is such a MMA legend as well as an "original Dog Brother" and apparently knows everything about every martial art out there; I mean he has no problem telling everyone that just about every art, with the exception of MMA is crap :rolleyes: I was thinking perhaps he would be willing to help prove or disprove his viewpoint.

So with that in mind I would like to propose that Dale tap into his doubtless vast resources and come up with someone in the Atlanta, GA or Greenville, SC area who he feels is a great MMA fighter. Then he gets that person to agree to fight and have said fight video taped and put here for all to see. The person chosen must accept that this is a fight and not a "friendly" sparring session, after all one of Dales big concerns is the "ability to make techniques work against resisting opponents intent on doing you harm". Both participants sign a waiver and fight and we see what happens.

How about it Dale? Willing to help set this up, or would you be willing to travel to GA and we could get together ourselves?

If you are willing to try and get together I would even be willing to allow the use of sticks, since you are a stickfighter and such I would be interested in seeing how my Pekiti Tirsia compared with what you know, if you want to keep it empty-hand then I would of course find out if my take on Wing Chun works.........although I already have formed my own opinion; of course in your mind and world experience which contradicts your own is fantasy.

So what do you say? If I lose I would be willing to shut up, but if I were to by some miracle win you would admit that WC does and can work.

[Pacman]

big balls on you.

i would say its not even about you winning (after all what if he is friends with Anderson Silva haha)...its just about you showing how WC can work

[Pacman]

Who is dale whats his screen name?

knifefighter

[Yoshiyahu]

knifefighter

Oh maybe knifefighter and terrence are the same person...i wouldnt be surprise...ha ha...

[Sihing73]

big balls on you.

i would say its not even about you winning (after all what if he is friends with Anderson Silva haha)...its just about you showing how WC can work

Well if Anderson Silva were to show up, I would doubtless get to go home early :D
Maybe I'd get to keep all my pieces, although if he were to accept a fight using sticks you never know :p I'd probably still get my butt handed to me :)

But somehow I highly doubt that Dale is friends with someone of that level, of course if I am wrong.........................poor me :eek:

Be more fun if Dale showed up himself though.

[Sihing73]

Oh maybe knifefighter and terrence are the same person...i wouldnt be surprise...ha ha...

Dale (Knifefighter) and Terrence are not the same person.

Also, sad to say if I were to fight and win they would doubtless point out that my WC is not "pure" since I have incorporated PT and Kuntau into it as well. Doubtless there would be some excuse regarding it not being WC. ;)

[goju]

lol why do i have a feeling this fight wont happen:D

[Yoshiyahu]

i was being facescious when i said that though...



Dale (Knifefighter) and Terrence are not the same person.

Also, sad to say if I were to fight and win they would doubtless point out that my WC is not "pure" since I have incorporated PT and Kuntau into it as well. Doubtless there would be some excuse regarding it not being WC. ;)

[Sihing73]

i was being facescious when i said that though...

Please no big words, I am a dumb WC guy living a life of fantasy, big words require that I think and comprehend and that makes my head hurt, likely far more than being hit by Dale. :o

[Sihing73]

Hello,

You know I was thinking that it would be a darn shame if Dale and I were unable to meet so I was wondering if anyone would be willing to contribute for a plane ticket to and from Altanta? This way cost would not be the factor keeping this from happening.

I would be willing to go to Cali, I mean all of those wonderful beaches and the beauty to be found there :rolleyes: Unfortunatley, I am a single father and would have trouble finding someone to watch my girls. Besides, if I were to lose and get hurt it would be easier to be taken care of near home.

So with this in mind I was wondering if anyone else would be willing to help to defray the cost for Dale (Knifefighter) to travel and meet me? I don't want any money, I just don't want him to have an excuse to not meet with this "fantasy B.S. Fighter :D"

[Knifefighter]

The person chosen must accept that this is a fight and not a "friendly" sparring session, after all one of Dales big concerns is the "ability to make techniques work against resisting opponents intent on doing you harm". Both participants sign a waiver and fight and we see what happens.
No rules, no gear?

[Yoshiyahu]

No rules, no gear?

What city are you in???

[Sihing73]

No rules, no gear?

If that is what you want then it's fine with me. :D

Shouldn't pose a problem for you since all those illegal techniques don't work for real anyhow. ;)

What do you say..............are you game?

[Knifefighter]

If that is what you want then it's fine with me. :D

Shouldn't pose a problem for you since all those illegal techniques don't work for real anyhow. ;)

What do you say..............are you game?
Let's see what I can come up with for you.

[Knifefighter]

I'll be waiting.........of course it would be more telling if YOU could come out and see me. After all, a Pro Fighter like you should be used to traveling for fights.
Let me see what I can come up with. Would you be willing to go down to Florida?

[goju]

i think so although we never met i have been told he is short, maybe he's 5'4" :confused

i guess if dale could not make it and i wanted to fight someone like him i would need to vist the set of the wizard of oz, perhaps i could find a ninja munchkin, lol. At least the size would be about right. Or perhaps a bully from grade school???

See dale, you opened the door by speaking of peoples mothers and fathers so i decided it would be okay to send some back your way. Sorry, i really did not mean to put you in the same catagory as the little people in the wizard of oz, i am sure most of them had more class than you. ;)

hes a bjj "master" theres no excuse for getting his arse kicked his styles supposed to be able to conquer big men

but of course if you beat him he would make some excuse such as his size or the fact that hes old

[Knifefighter]

You want to throw out the challenges and then hide behind "I can't leave my poor defenseless daughters behind". Give me a friggin' break. In my world, you throw out the challenge, you step up to the plate and come see me.

Bring your daughters. You can take them to Disneyland.

[Sihing73]

You want to throw out the challenges and then hide behind "I can't leave my poor defenseless daughters behind". Give me a friggin' break. In my world, you throw out the challenge, you step up to the plate and come see me.

Bring your daughters. You can take them to Disneyland.

Dale, Dale,

Yes I am hiding behind my daughters, I think I mentioned in the very first post to find someone in the Atlanta or Greenville area. If you can arrange for someone to come to either of those areas then I am more than willing to travel there and fight.

So here again, just so we are clear:

If you can get someone to come to either Atlanta, GA or Greenville SC areas and fight I will be more than happy to meet them. Of course, you would have to agree that if I were to Win you would admit WC was an effective viable art and not make any excuses etc.

Of course I would be more than happy for you to come yourself so there would be no wiggle room for either of us. But, I kind of doubted that would happen as I never expected YOU to step up to the plate.

So what do you say? Is this not the same thing I posted initially? Please tell me how I am the one hiding? Seems to me for all of your talk you would jump at the chance to shut me up.

So either get someone to come to my area, as I originaly proposed or come yourself, no visits to guys hundreds and hundreds of miles away. And be man enough to accept what happens.

Your move :D

[Knifefighter]

Your move :D
Like I said, I'll come up with something for you. I'll be back tomorrow to work out the details.

[goju]

well i extend the same offer to dale in colorado
my name is david ocasey
i live on vance street in wheatridge
heres my pic ill be more than happy to meet you i know we dont see eye to eye(i mean that figurativey and literally being that your vertically challenged)but im sure we can meet and sort things out

[Liddel]

I dont know your background well enough Dave but it would make more sence to me to make it a stand up fight so that the VT can flourish - ive had friendly bouts with mates and been taken down and tapped which i saw as a thumbs up to VT in that he didnt want to stand with me.....

If its all about proving VT then thats the ticket IME - and Dale should not have a prob with that.

PS could the little girls posting stupid pics and making highschool comments just stop draggin this into a kiddy session. This is a gentlemans challenge and should be treated as such :mad:

And win or lose to either party props for stepping up, if this actually happens.

DREW

[Phil Redmond]

. . . PS could the little girls posting stupid pics and making highschool comments just stop draggin this into a kiddy session. This is a gentlemans challenge and should be treated as such :mad:. . DREW
Hear hear.

[Sihing73]

Hi Drew,

I concede your point and you are right about the pics, I also have not always acted properly, having a bit of fun at Dales expense but I should be above that as well.

I am open to suggestions on how to make this less of a personal clash and more of a testiment to Wing Chun.

I will also remove the derogatory comments and pics posted at Dales expense as well as offer him an appology for even permitting such as well as my taking part in some cheap shots.

FWIW, and I think I have said this before, I actually respect some of Dales views and give him props for having stepped into the PRO arena. What I do not agree with is the degrading of just about anyone which runs contrary to his pov.

So with that I will appoligize to Dale for my cheap shots and ask him to seriously consider a venue which would satisfy his interest in seeing WC against a resisting opponent, himself or someone else. It does not need to be a blood bath, whew that makes me sleep better. Afterwards we can all shake hands and see what we can learn from our meeting.

Thanks Drew for keeping me honest and in line as I stray from time to time.

[anerlich]

Due respect to Dave and Dale ... but all internet challenges are stupid.

Keep thinking back to the one with JF Springer and the dykes.

Phil and Dale met up once and got on fairly well, why can't you make it bit more like that?

[Mr Punch]

Hooray!

And I ws thinking even the giggles had dried up on this forum! Then along comes deathmatch season! Cept it's a gentlemen's challenge... :rolleyes:

Dave, what the hell's gotten into you? Show me where Dale's been any other than himself? How did he suddenly tip you over the edge? You say you've agreed with some his stuff... well his stuff is consistent: try your stuff out as realistically or possible or shut up!

And now you're willing to do go to 'no rules, no gear'?

1) Even the Dog Bros respect the tap and don't beat on someone unconscious. Who's to say you're going to get someone of that control and moral fibre?
2) The Dog Bros usually use gear. There is a reason for this.

Two more random points:

a) Even if true, mediocre vale tudo record and Dog Brothers showings is still worlds ahead of any of the pure-ish chun vids on the whole of Youtube in terms of proof of ability to be able to fight, with the possible exception of Alan Orr's boys (if they're on YT).
b) You're talking about one, mostly stand-up style being slagged off in favour of MMA? MMA is not a style, for the thousandth time: it is taking (usually) the things that work and putting them together under pressure. Either one of those two factors is enough to make it superior to most chun out there, and add to it the number of techs for which most chun has no answer for... Is it sunny in Atlanta? Talking of protection, you shouldn't go out in that without a big hat you know.

And Goju, just LOL, hearing your typical internet tough-guy BS and now looking at your scrawny-assed posey photo... must resist finishing this sentence... :D

[Mr Punch]

What's the difference between that and the usual wind-up DEATHMAAAAATCH! :D

Dave, our mod despite saying he'd delete all the inflammatory stuff, still has **** up about his presumptions of Dale's record, basically calling him a punk.

[goju]

Hooray!

And I ws thinking even the giggles had dried up on this forum! Then along comes deathmatch season! Cept it's a gentlemen's challenge... :rolleyes:

Dave, what the hell's gotten into you? Show me where Dale's been any other than himself? How did he suddenly tip you over the edge? You say you've agreed with some his stuff... well his stuff is consistent: try your stuff out as realistically or possible or shut up!

And now you're willing to do go to 'no rules, no gear'?

1) Even the Dog Bros respect the tap and don't beat on someone unconscious. Who's to say you're going to get someone of that control and moral fibre?
2) The Dog Bros usually use gear. There is a reason for this.

Two more random points:

a) Even if true, mediocre vale tudo record and Dog Brothers showings is still worlds ahead of any of the pure-ish chun vids on the whole of Youtube in terms of proof of ability to be able to fight, with the possible exception of Alan Orr's boys (if they're on YT).
b) You're talking about one, mostly stand-up style being slagged off in favour of MMA? MMA is not a style, for the thousandth time: it is taking (usually) the things that work and putting them together under pressure. Either one of those two factors is enough to make it superior to most chun out there, and add to it the number of techs for which most chun has no answer for... Is it sunny in Atlanta? Talking of protection, you shouldn't go out in that without a big hat you know.

And Goju, just LOL, hearing your typical internet tough-guy BS and now looking at your scrawny-assed posey photo... must resist finishing this sentence... :D

lol what internet tough guy talk? i dont run around on here bashing systems and practioners that have been around for thousands of years and tell people how they should train please get to know me first before you make such an absurd comment i have never said i was a tough guy nor do i think i am im closer to dale than the op and if he wants to come on i provided my full info including my picture ive sparred with a person on here before and id liked to spar with more if the oppurtunity is present::D

[goju]

What's the difference between that and the usual wind-up DEATHMAAAAATCH! :D

Dave, our mod despite saying he'd delete all the inflammatory stuff, still has **** up about his presumptions of Dale's record, basically calling him a punk.
and its a free country if the op wishes to call him a punk or have no talent or which ever he is intitled to say it
you dont have to respect anyone if you dont want to simple as that

[LSWCTN1]

so long as afterwards everyone shakes hands it can oly be a good thing - i'm sure both competiors will learn a thing or two

MOD - you best be mighty good otherwise we're all just going to hear the same stuck record :D

[goju]

i have a feeling it would be the same broken record even if he did win or another poster like dale would come and replace him after a while and it will be the same old mess all over again
if you look at forums concerning martial arts they are all like thats some one running around claiming they are the all knowing mma expert and bad mouthing every one who doesnt follow what they do
but trying to have a full out no rules match isnt for the best unless you want to go to jail or possibly have a dead body on your hands :)

[bennyvt]

how much. Ill put in to see that

[sanjuro_ronin]

Careful what you wish for Dave...

Not long ago Dale competed in the Dog Brothers gathering of the pack, he fought a bunch of full contact stick fights and a few knife fights too ( aluminum knives if I recall), the day AFTER he went out and won his division in a submission grappling tournament.
Yes, you heard me, after a DB gathering he went and competed.

I have never competed in a DB gathering, but I have done some full contact stick fighting and a few with just head gear, it is a freaky thing to get hit with wood and still fight, after that, punches and kicks don't seem so bad, LOL !
Having fought at perhaps 10% of what Dale has in terms of stick fighting I have nothing but respect for what he has done and STILL does.

I may not like the way Dale says stuff but I have been arounf BJJ enough to knwo that there "show me" attitute is not demeaning as much as it is challenging.

There is no reason that if this happens, it can't be honourable.

FYI, Asia from Bullshido is, or was, stationed in Georgia, if you ( Dave) wanna test your WC, he would be a great guy to go to.

[t_niehoff]

If people want to see what they can do and if they are genuinely serious, they don't need Dale to set up fights for them -- all they need to do is contact a good local MMA gym or muay thai school and see if they could come in and spar. If they need to, ask to set up a private lesson and make it so that part of the private is some hard sparring. That's all it takes.

People can also go to bullshido and find regular throwdowns in their areas.

[m1k3]

Am I having a flashback? This was done way back in the 1990's. It was called UFC 1 through 10 or 15. TMA fighters did not do all that well against sport fighters as I remember, not to say they never won but the vast majority of the fights went to the sport fighters, grapplers in particular.

The only rules in the beginning were no biting and no eye gouging, other than that have at it.

As a former chunner my main problem with WC was the level of contact permitted when working out and sparring. It wasn't no contact but it wasn't particularly hard either. Of course my experience is limited to only a couple of schools.

My last complaint is with the WC practitioners themselves. If someone uses it in an NHB contest the fighter is usually hammered with "that doesn't look like _ing _un!" if he wins and if he loses he gets hammered with "he doesn't have the real _ing _un!". D*mned if you do and d*mned if you don't.

So why don't we drop these stupid threads? No one is going to change their mind based on a post in a forum.

BTW, I happen to side with the sport fighters, if you can't do it in the ring or on the mats the chances you will be able to pull it of against a trained opponent. If you can't punch someone in the face how can you poke them in the eye?

Oh well, end of rant. :)

[Pacman]

i agree. if you cant do it in the ring you probably cant do it for real

the main problem with TMA fighters is that these days they generally do not fight as much as the sport fighters.

as a result often TMA people fight full contact what they do DOESN'T look like wing chun because under this new pressure situation they arent trained enough to stay relaxed and throw out everything they trained.

on the flip side i dont think that winning some matches or even becoming the ultimate fighter and UFC light heavyweight champ makes you a SKILLED fighter (think forrest griffin). he fought people considered to be the best in the ufc and it only took a couple of minutes for a skilled fighter like silva to dismantle him to the point of giving up

i am more interested being skilled first than learning how to brawl.


Am I having a flashback? This was done way back in the 1990's. It was called UFC 1 through 10 or 15. TMA fighters did not do all that well against sport fighters as I remember, not to say they never won but the vast majority of the fights went to the sport fighters, grapplers in particular.

The only rules in the beginning were no biting and no eye gouging, other than that have at it.

As a former chunner my main problem with WC was the level of contact permitted when working out and sparring. It wasn't no contact but it wasn't particularly hard either. Of course my experience is limited to only a couple of schools.

My last complaint is with the WC practitioners themselves. If someone uses it in an NHB contest the fighter is usually hammered with "that doesn't look like _ing _un!" if he wins and if he loses he gets hammered with "he doesn't have the real _ing _un!". D*mned if you do and d*mned if you don't.

So why don't we drop these stupid threads? No one is going to change their mind based on a post in a forum.

BTW, I happen to side with the sport fighters, if you can't do it in the ring or on the mats the chances you will be able to pull it of against a trained opponent. If you can't punch someone in the face how can you poke them in the eye?

Oh well, end of rant. :)

[Mr Punch]

Am I having a flashback? ...
BTW, I happen to side with the sport fighters, if you can't do it in the ring or on the mats the chances you will be able to pull it of against a trained opponent. If you can't punch someone in the face how can you poke them in the eye?

Oh well, end of rant. :)Excellent post!

I'm going to butt out of this thread now, since Dave's just sent me some, as usual, eminently sensible PMs and I know when I'm sticking my nose in. Might be back, just to take the **** out of Goju, cos he's an easy mark! :D

[sanjuro_ronin]

Excellent post!

I'm going to butt out of this thread now, since Dave's just sent me some, as usual, eminently sensible PMs and I know when I'm sticking my nose in. Might be back, just to take the **** out of Goju, cos he's an easy mark! :D

He is, isn't he?
LOL !

[t_niehoff]

i agree. if you cant do it in the ring you probably cant do it for real

the main problem with TMA fighters is that these days they generally do not fight as much as the sport fighters.

as a result often TMA people fight full contact what they do DOESN'T look like wing chun because under this new pressure situation they arent trained enough to stay relaxed and throw out everything they trained.


That's a part of it. You only get good at what you are used to doing, so if you aren't used to working under high pressure, high intensity, you're not going to be any good under high pressure, high intensity.

Another part is that working under high pressure, high intensity -- under fighting conditions -- greatly changes things. The types of mechanics, tools, tactics, etc. that work with lesser pressures, lesser intensities don't necessarily work under fighting conditions. So many things that are well-trained go out the window since they won't work under fighting conditions. The intensity of fighting changes the nature of the game.



on the flip side i dont think that winning some matches or even becoming the ultimate fighter and UFC light heavyweight champ makes you a SKILLED fighter (think forrest griffin). he fought people considered to be the best in the ufc and it only took a couple of minutes for a skilled fighter like silva to dismantle him to the point of giving up

i am more interested being skilled first than learning how to brawl.

If you get to the level of fighting in the UFC today, you are a very good, solid fighter. You've had to fight local, regional, etc. fights and do very well to get there. It means you've fought and beaten loads of talented, conditioned, and skilled fighters. Comments like the above tell me that you are clueless.

Griffin is a very, very good fighter. He's fought and beaten some top level guys; he trains with the best fighters and fight trainers on the planet. He's a very well-rounded fighter, with good stand-up, clinch, and ground games. He had a bad night and he was outclassed by Silva (who is among the very best in the world right now). BFD. That doesn't take anything away from his proven accomplishments.

[Knifefighter]

Dave,
I've got a couple of possibilities I'm looking into that might be interested in doing an old-school NHB fight with you, one who might do the sticks and no gear deal. I'm also looking into locations for this.

I need your height and weight.

Goju,
How far would you be willing to drive?

[monji112000]

If that is what you want then it's fine with me. :D

Shouldn't pose a problem for you since all those illegal techniques don't work for real anyhow. ;)

What do you say..............are you game?

here is a clue. Don't be stupid. don't talk **** because we all know your not going to go through with anything. Just shut up and leave things alone. You don't want to get hurt, your ego counts as being hurt too.

[goju]

Dave,
I've got a couple of possibilities I'm looking into that might be interested in doing an old-school NHB fight with you, one who might do the sticks and no gear deal. I'm also looking into locations for this.

I need your height and weight.

Goju,
How far would you be willing to drive?

not very far because i get lost easily lol
abd i dont mess about with stick fighting either

[Knifefighter]

not very far because i get lost easily lol
abd i dont mess about with stick fighting either

I have a friend who has a BJJ school in Colorado. I know they've done several challenge matches there and I think they still do. I'll find out how far away he is from you. Sticks won't be necessary.

[Sihing73]

Dave,
I've got a couple of possibilities I'm looking into that might be interested in doing an old-school NHB fight with you, one who might do the sticks and no gear deal. I'm also looking into locations for this.

I need your height and weight.

Goju,
How far would you be willing to drive?

Hi Dale,

I am about 5'8 and weigh in at about 185 lbs.

Remember, you have to re-evaluate your opinion of WC if I win, OK ;)

[Knifefighter]

Hi Dale,

I am about 5'8 and weigh in at about 185 lbs.

Remember, you have to re-evaluate your opinion of WC if I win, OK ;)

Of course.

But that does beg the question. Since I've always said all you need to do is put up some clips of you fighting full contact against resisting opponents, why go through the whole convoluted drama of me having to set up a fight for you?

[Sihing73]

Hello,

You know some people have contacted me offline and pointed out that if I were to fight someone and actually WIN there doubtless would be some comments or excuses made that pure WC was not used. Of course if I got my butt handed to me the same excuse could be made........my my what a conundrum :D

Several who contacted me seem to feel that this match, if it were to happen, should be between Dale and myself. They have pointed out the fact that a "ringer" may be used to make me look bad. However, I do not need any help in looking bad, I am pretty good at doing that myself:p

It was brought up that the difference in height could also be a factor. So with all things considered I would like to still propose that this match be between Dale and myself, if at all possible.

However, if Dale wants to prove the ineffectiveness of using purely Wing Chun in a fight then maybe there would be someone who does strictly WC willing to match with Dale, since Dale is willing to fight by Proxy perhaps I should be willing to do so as well........................now I wonder is there a strictly WC guy who would be willing to meet with and match with Dale? Perhaps someone closer in age and not one to give up much of a size difference as Dale and I would face.............................................. .................................................. ............................

Not saying I won't fight........just that I would prefer Dale and if that were not possible perhaps Dale would also be willing to fight someone else who does WC and not a mixture like myself.

Now wouldn't that prove something????

[goju]

are there any guys here that do nothing but wc

[Sihing73]

are there any guys here that do nothing but wc

I am consulting the mages as we speak. :rolleyes:

Kind of like I said to some racist guys I know..........is there any "Pure" race? I mean throughout history I believe we have all mixed it up, pardon the pun.

[t_niehoff]

Now wouldn't that prove something????

What are you trying to prove?

None of us "represent" WCK. You only represent yourself. You are not going to prove anything about WCK, or your sifu, or etc. since WCK, your sifu, your lineage, etc. isn't DOING IT -- you are. It is only about YOU and no one else. If YOU want to see how well YOUR training is working, then go see -- go fight with some good fighters and see. That's the only way. See if you can do in fighting what you train to do as you train to do it.

[Sihing73]

What are you trying to prove?

None of us "represent" WCK. You only represent yourself. You are not going to prove anything about WCK, or your sifu, or etc. since WCK, your sifu, your lineage, etc. isn't DOING IT -- you are. It is only about YOU and no one else. If YOU want to see how well YOUR training is working, then go see -- go fight with some good fighters and see. That's the only way. See if you can do in fighting what you train to do as you train to do it.

But T, my training consists of eating doughnuts and drinking soda and in that training I am a champion second to none :p Although I must admit that those doughnuts sometimes do kick my butt :(

However, based on your post it does seem to emphasize that my fighting with someone other than Dale would prove NOTHING as the other person would not have the same training as Dale.

With that in mind, I guess I am back to square one; if this were to happen it should be between Dale and I as we are the two best able to represent OUR skills.

[Phil Redmond]

. . . .

It was brought up that the difference in height could also be a factor. So with all things considered I would like to still propose that this match be between Dale and myself, if at all possible.

However, if Dale wants to prove the ineffectiveness of using purely Wing Chun in a fight then maybe there would be someone who does strictly WC willing to match with Dale, since Dale is willing to fight by Proxy perhaps I should be willing to do so as well........................now I wonder is there a strictly WC guy who would be willing to meet with and match with Dale? Perhaps someone closer in age and not one to give up much of a size difference as Dale and I would face.............................................. .................................................. ............................

Not saying I won't fight........just that I would prefer Dale and if that were not possible perhaps Dale would also be willing to fight someone else who does WC and not a mixture like myself. . . . . . .
Nothing against Dale but I'll bite. I'm don't think "pure" WC exists but I can effectively use my TWC. Plus the adrenaline rush is always good.

[uki]

here i thought this was about dugas... LOL... he'd crush you all, not me though, i am to slippery and quick for him to catch - plus i smell really bad and would wipe my underarm sweat all over his face and maybe knock him in the noggin with one of my iron
balls. :D

[Ultimatewingchun]

This much I can tell you, Dave. Matching up with someone other than Dale won't change anything, whether you win or lose. The issue is really between Dale and yourself. He said a bunch of things you took offense to, and you challenged him to have a match to settle it.

Asking him to provide someone else makes no sense, for if you win, Dale could always say that the guy should have done this or that. If you lose, you could always say that you doubt that Dale is as good as the guy you fought.

See the dilemma?

So unless the two of you matchup - Drop it.

You really want to shake the guy up when you think he's over the top? When he's being particularly nasty? Totally out of line? When he starts talking 5hit about people's family members?

Start editing or even deleting his posts more often than you may presently be doing.

He may get so p i s s e d off that he might catch the first plane to Georgia to see you! :cool: :D

And even if he doesn't come, the forum discussions may start to get a whole lot better, minus so many nasty/hi-jacking distractions. You have the power to change things. Use it.

After all, you are the moderator.

[Yoshiyahu]

What are you trying to prove?

None of us "represent" WCK. You only represent yourself. You are not going to prove anything about WCK, or your sifu, or etc. since WCK, your sifu, your lineage, etc. isn't DOING IT -- you are. It is only about YOU and no one else. If YOU want to see how well YOUR training is working, then go see -- go fight with some good fighters and see. That's the only way. See if you can do in fighting what you train to do as you train to do it.

I totally agree. I would love to test my art out on you if possible. Please if you like give me a call lets meet at Forest Park or Heman Park and lets spar. Let me see how well my progress and training is. I would really be happy if you do me this Favor Terrence.

[sanjuro_ronin]

You know, I am so glad that I got this crap out of my system when I was younger, you guys should see how sad this looks when you drop silly challenges.
Especially sense my ***** is bigger than all of yours !!
:cool:

[Yoshiyahu]

You know, I am so glad that I got this crap out of my system when I was younger, you guys should see how sad this looks when you drop silly challenges.
Especially sense my ***** is bigger than all of yours !!
:cool:

But my **** is bigger than His...ha ha...

[Sihing73]

You know, I am so glad that I got this crap out of my system when I was younger, you guys should see how sad this looks when you drop silly challenges.
Especially sense my ***** is bigger than all of yours !!
:cool:

Paul,

I agree although it is not the size that matters...........it is the technique which can be applied :D

Besides, I am trying to recapture my misspent youth. Oh wait if my youth were truly misspent perhaps I would have this out of my system already. Perhaps it is that hit in the head I took last week, or was it last month I seem to have trouble with short term memory lately, lol

Oh well I admit I am not mature but I still say that size, while a piece of the pie is not everything. But like that woman says in that commercial " This could be fun" ;)

[Yoshiyahu]

[QUOTE=Sihing73;954092]Paul,

I agree although it is not the size that matters...........it is the technique which can be applied :DQUOTE]

Aww but women often tell me its not just the technique that has them coming back for more but its the exquiste size and mass of tool.

So a person with size and skill is far better than one who only has one.

[Sihing73]

Ok, let's keep it civil, myself included. :D

If we want to discuss another topic perhaps we should have a thread in the OT Forum ;)

[Sihing73]

This much I can tell you, Dave. Matching up with someone other than Dale won't change anything, whether you win or lose. The issue is really between Dale and yourself. He said a bunch of things you took offense to, and you challenged him to have a match to settle it.

Asking him to provide someone else makes no sense, for if you win, Dale could always say that the guy should have done this or that. If you lose, you could always say that you doubt that Dale is as good as the guy you fought.

See the dilemma?

So unless the two of you matchup - Drop it.

You really want to shake the guy up when you think he's over the top? When he's being particularly nasty? Totally out of line? When he starts talking 5hit about people's family members?

Start editing or even deleting his posts more often than you may presently be doing.

He may get so p i s s e d off that he might catch the first plane to Georgia to see you! :cool: :D

And even if he doesn't come, the forum discussions may start to get a whole lot better, minus so many nasty/hi-jacking distractions. You have the power to change things. Use it.

After all, you are the moderator.

Hello Victor,

While I am the moderator, I am also at fault for some things. I'll chalk that up to being human and a work in progress. I rely on you guys to keep me honest and on track..........Lord what a dilemma that presents in and of itself. :eek:

It does seem that the only way to settle anything would be for any match to be between Dale and myself. I am open to seeing that happen, unless he wants to entertain Phil :p.

So, what would it take for Dale and I to get together? What would be the most practical way for us to meet and compare notes??

Dale, I am open to suggestions regarding you and I meeting.

[stonecrusher69]

Hello,

You know I was thinking and I figured since it is highly unlikely that I will ever get the chance to meet and fight with Dale I would propose the following:

Since Dale is such a MMA legend as well as an "original Dog Brother" and apparently knows everything about every martial art out there; I mean he has no problem telling everyone that just about every art, with the exception of MMA is crap :rolleyes: I was thinking perhaps he would be willing to help prove or disprove his viewpoint.

So with that in mind I would like to propose that Dale tap into his doubtless vast resources and come up with someone in the Atlanta, GA or Greenville, SC area who he feels is a great MMA fighter. Then he gets that person to agree to fight and have said fight video taped and put here for all to see. The person chosen must accept that this is a fight and not a "friendly" sparring session, after all one of Dales big concerns is the "ability to make techniques work against resisting opponents intent on doing you harm". Both participants sign a waiver and fight and we see what happens.

How about it Dale? Willing to help set this up, or would you be willing to travel to GA and we could get together ourselves?

If you are willing to try and get together I would even be willing to allow the use of sticks, since you are a stickfighter and such I would be interested in seeing how my Pekiti Tirsia compared with what you know, if you want to keep it empty-hand then I would of course find out if my take on Wing Chun works.........although I already have formed my own opinion; of course in your mind and world experience which contradicts your own is fantasy.

So what do you say? If I lose I would be willing to shut up, but if I were to by some miracle win you would admit that WC does and can work.

Any man who is will to step is a winner what ever the out come..I don't think Dave needs to prove anything to anyone here. I'm sure he can make his wing chun work just fine.

[Yoshiyahu]

Ok, let's keep it civil, myself included. :D

If we want to discuss another topic perhaps we should have a thread in the OT Forum ;)

Well first you must have a barbic fight with no equipment and no rules. Fully aggressive no sparring a real fight against an opponent trying to hurt you. So your fight will be pretty uncivil.

[Ultimatewingchun]

Dave,

I think it's already pretty clear that Dale is not coming to Georgia and you're not going to California.

[Knifefighter]

Dale, I am open to suggestions regarding you and I meeting.
Dave,
I find it ironic that you start to throw out the challenges shortly after learning that I live on the west coast, although I've been posting here off and on for years. I also find it ironic that you were previously adamant that you had nothing to prove, when, obviously, it is to me that you want to prove your point. Even more ironic is the fact that I've always told you that you simply needed to put up some clips of you going full contact against other resisting opponents to prove the point.

Another ironic thing is how goju disappeared as soon as I started looking into a fight for him at the BJJ school in Colorado, which, as it turns out, is in Broomfield, about 20 minutes from where he lives.

As far as Phil, he's a nice guy and I've got nothing against him, but, sure, we can do an NHB type of match. Just let me know when you will be out here and I'll check into a venue. I'll be gone off and on until Sept 9, but I should be around most of the time after that.

And when it comes to immaturity, all of us who come here and argue about better, best, worst, fake, real, etc. are pretty immature in the first place, at least in this respect, and I'm sure I'm in the top percentile when it comes to immature arguments here. I guess we all have our specific dysfunctions... some people drink, some people watch TV to excess, some people gamble while we argue about martial arts on the internet.

[Sihing73]

Hello Dale,

I have sent you a PM previously which I think made clear my motivation.

You know, I have said this and I will say it again here:

I do not dislike you, I dislike some of the way you present things and put others down. From all accounts, most people seem to think you are a nice guy in person and that may be very true.

I had made a decision, based on certain health concerns, to try and visit several people and compare skills. While I am still interested in doing so, I wanted to meet with you in particular as I felt it would enable both of us to compare notes and get a clear vision of whether or not my prior experience provided any relevance to an actual ability to make my approach to WC work. I know my opinion and you have made yours equally clear. Therefore, after some of the recent postings I decided it might be worth it to meet and see if either of us could be persuaded that each POV deserves respect.

As to needing to prove anything: regardless of how you perceive things I am not overly concerned with proving anyting to you or anyone else. If everyone on this board, or the entire world for that matter, thought I were a coward and full of s*** it would only affect me if I were to share that view.

I actually would welcome the chance to meet and if we both held an open mind, I believe we could both be the better for the meeting.

With that in mind, I will seriously look into arranging a time to visit you. I will admit that it will take some time as I am in the process of obtaining full custody of my children. Still, my ex will get visitation and hence the kids will go to stay with her from time to time. I am confident that I could arrange a visit while they are away. However, as I said this may be a little while down the road as everything needs to be worked out.

Once I have the visitation worked out, would you be willing to entertain me and or Phil? Since it is highly unlikely you will get to Geogia, although you are always welcome, this is the best I can offer at the moment. Of course I would need to know where to visit in CA.

Does this sound fair to you?

[Knifefighter]

Sounds fine.

[Sihing73]

Sounds fine.

Hello Dale,

Very well then, it seems we are in agreement.

For now this "fight" will be postponed.

In the interim I would ask that all of us Myself Included try to act as mature adults.

Everyone, even those we may not agree with, have the right to their own viewpoints. But no one really has the right to preach to others or put them down. I have been as guilty as anyone as my tongue, or in this case my typing, sometimes gets away from me.

With that I think it is time to close this thread. Nothing has been settled nor proven, but at least we have possibly come to a compromise and a meeting may occur in the near future. Of course, we will let everyone know how that turns out when and if it happens.

I wish everyone here the best.