Spot On!

[extrajoseph]

From CLFNole:

Frank, here is why your logic is flawed.

Like it or not the Chan Family's history (right or wrong) was recognized first (in China and generally worldwide) so they "beat you to the punch" sort to speak.

Having your history is fine and like I said I am not saying theirs (Chan Family) is right or wrong but it was there first so for your history to be accepted if things contradict what they have you need "real" irrefutable evidence to be taken as fact. Herein lies the root of your problem as you have pieced together various information (which I commend you for doing) but without anything that really ties it together as fact. Since it is just a "theory" it cannot over-ride or debunk something that is already recognized.

I go back to the group that says we never landed on the moon. The history was there first they came up with a variety of claims with no real evidence or evidence debunked by NASA and although they are still out there and hold to their beliefs most people think of them as a fringe group.


From Ben Gash:

Your problem in this regard Frank is that you somehow view basic critical analysis as "tearing it apart and looking for micro-fibres". Questionning you is not attacking you. Asking for evidence is not attacking you. It is reasonable enquiry.

Like I say, I try to do it in a level civil manner, and all I get is your increasingly hostile ranting until it reaches the point where you've made yourself look so bad you have to delete the thread

So forgive me if I'd rather just cut to the chase now.

You clearly have no interest in actually discussing anything you post here, it's just an opportunity for you to push your "Hung Sing is special" agenda, and live out your historian fantasy, now with added wannabe Chinese gangster appeal.

As you have insulted pretty much every major teacher of King Mui sourced CLF over the years, I really don't think you're in any position to start complaining about people's manners.

[hskwarrior]

joseph,

don't you know you should never let them see you sweat?

Since you are telling me about my lineage.......PROVE IT!!!!!!

I just hope you have something other than your Chan Yiu Chi version of another family's history.

[extrajoseph]

At least there is no way you can delete this thread.:D So who is sweating?:rolleyes::p

[hskwarrior]

if i stop answering you, then you will only look like a nut case who is a rambling idiot with a ******* for me.

[CLFNole]

I think this is fair and part of a civil discussion. The points are fair and in my case at least and I think Ben's as well was not an attack but just questioning what was said. You have to think when posting on a public forum things you say will be questioned.

Take my case for example I could go running off at the mouth about my sifu (LKH) only to have my real sihings who trained with him much longer put me in my place as they obviously know more about him than me. This is just an example but we all have to be prepared to be questioned (good or bad) whenever we say or in this case post something.

[extrajoseph]

"if i stop answering you, then you will only look like a nut case who is a rambling idiot with a ******* for me."

If you stop answering me and go on with your rubbish, then I would just quietly go and do my practice.:)

[hskwarrior]

Joseph,

you chan family archives are FAULTY in regards to the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon.

Jeung Hung Sing was the co-founder to CLF.

[hskwarrior]

Joseph,

why are you thinking about me without my clothes on?

[extrajoseph]

Joseph,

you chan family archives are FAULTY in regards to the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon.

Jeung Hung Sing was the co-founder to CLF.

Frank,

That is what you believe in, but it is not a fact.

[hskwarrior]

yeah it did feel good, thanks to the young man from buck sing gwoon.

Do you really want me to say it again?

yeah say it again.

[hskwarrior]

that is what you believe in, but it is not a fact

prove it!!!!!!!

[extrajoseph]

Joseph,

why are you thinking about me without my clothes on?

You do have a gay mind, have you not heard of the fairy tale by Hans Christian Andersen?

[CLFNole]

I think everyone should just GIVE UP with this.

Isn't it anothers styles turn to start arguing? :eek:

[hskwarrior]

you do have a gay mind, have you not heard of the fairy tale by hans christian andersen?

nah, but did you know that jeung hung sing was one of southern china's greatest fighters?

[extrajoseph]

prove it!!!!!!!

Can't, it is your faith, but what we are dealing here is history, not what you believe in.

[hskwarrior]

If you cannot prove it.....

shut the eff up!!!!

i THOUGHT IT WAS REALLY AMUSING TO SEE YOU UPSET AT THE IDEA OF JEUNG HUNG SING TEACHING CHAN HEUNG THE FAN QING FU MING, AND HOW YOU GOT REALLY UPSET THAT WE ARE PROMOTING OUR FOUNDER JEUNG HUNG SING.....AND NOT PROMOTING YOUR FOUNDER.

YOU ARE ONE BITTER, AND VERY JEALOUS MAN.

[extrajoseph]

I think everyone should just GIVE UP with this.

Isn't it anothers styles turn to start arguing? :eek:

Well, I missed my practice today already, so lets continue to have some fun with Frank..:D

[extrajoseph]

If you cannot prove it.....

shut the eff up!!!!

i THOUGHT IT WAS REALLY AMUSING TO SEE YOU UPSET AT THE IDEA OF JEUNG HUNG SING TEACHING CHAN HEUNG THE FAN QING FU MING, AND HOW YOU GOT REALLY UPSET THAT WE ARE PROMOTING OUR FOUNDER JEUNG HUNG SING.....AND NOT PROMOTING YOUR FOUNDER.

YOU ARE ONE BITTER, AND VERY JEALOUS MAN.

... and you are one gay and happy man.;):D

[CLFNole]

I practiced and taught yesterday and and will again tomorrow but I am not getting any work done in the office today. Luckily I own the company. :D

[hskwarrior]

TRY ALL YOU WANT JOSEPH.....

ALL I KNOW ABOUT YOU IS THAT YOU WERE A STAUNCH HATER AGAINST THE GREEN GRASS MONK.......AS SEE HERE....


Green Grass Monk is a fictional character made up to put Cheung Ah Yim on the map. It was first mentioned in the 60s, and it is only now, in the last couple of years, that the claim that Cheung Ah Yim and Chan Heung both invented CLF came to surface.


bUT YOU HAVE =NOTHING TO BACK THAT CLAIM UP WHATSOEVER. NO PROOF, NO EVIDENCE, NOT EVEN A HINT OF IT.

THEN YOU HAVE THE NERVE TO TELL ME THAT YOU SAW EVIDENCE WITHIN THE CHAN FAMILY ARCHIVES THAT MENTIONS THE MONK CHING CHO.

YOU WENT FROM HATING ON THE GREEN GRASS MONK TO SUPPORTING DFW'S WILD ARSE CLAIM TO CHOY FOOK BEING CHING CHO.

SO, FROM THAT POINT FORWARD, YOU'RE NOTHING BUT A WAY TO KILL SOME TIME.

[extrajoseph]

Thank God, it's dinner time! I am knocking off guys.

[hskwarrior]

nd you are one gay and happy man.

i'd rather be happy and gay, than to ever walk a foot in your shoes. You lie, and lie and lie and lie, call others liars, but when asked to present something to prove your own claims....you skirt around the issue.

Seems a little dubious to me

[iron_silk]

i THOUGHT IT WAS REALLY AMUSING TO SEE YOU UPSET AT THE IDEA OF JEUNG HUNG SING TEACHING CHAN HEUNG THE FAN QING FU MING,

Even if Jeung Yim showed Chan Heung stuff that he learned from someone else wouldn't he have too much respect and loyalty to Chan Heung (since he was his Sifu) to even consider the co-founder title?

This is coming from Old China when they distinct classes and positions of individuals that more strictly. You would never be sitting level to level with your Sifu even if your surpass him.

Only in Modern day can be buddy buddy with your Sifu and even share credits where credits is due etc...

(Actually I'm not sure if modern China would still allow that.)

In any case one day as Sifu is for life man! (rough translation of the Chinese saying)

[hskwarrior]

Even if Jeung Yim showed Chan Heung stuff that he learned from someone else wouldn't he have too much respect and loyalty to Chan Heung (since he was his Sifu) to even consider the co-founder title?

look at it from this point of view.....you are building a car......and you got everything accept the engine......then i come along and provide you with an engine and you take off. is it fair if you said you completely built the car knowing that i helped you and not give me credit?

additionally, chan heung was still developing his system when jeung hung sing returned. he was welcomed back, and during his visit he managed to show chan heung what he learned. as someone who is still developing his system, it isn't impossible that chan heung saw the potential of adding in some new moves, regardless of it was from a former system. even more so since jeung hung sing learned another system altogether. it would be something different if he went back to chan heung to reteach him his own CLF based on jeung hung sing's experience.



You would never be sitting level to level with your Sifu even if your surpass him.


not if chan heung considered jeung hung sing to be on a different level because of his achievements. i mean, jeung hung sing did say that if chan heung never helped him, he'd never have achieved what he did. But, not just that......when you are in the HUNG MUN, you are a brother...... equal.

see, my sifu is hung mun, so am i, i know he is still my sifu.....but in the hung mun its different. He has his position, i have mine.

[hskwarrior]

In any case one day as Sifu is for life man! (rough translation of the Chinese saying)

we never denied chan heung as jeung hung sing's sifu. just not as the primary or most influential of his 3 sifu's.

[dragon323]

Hello

I write in this post that hskwarriors can´t delete.

Hskwarriors´s liars 1:

"my source is transmision oral from Lau Bun"

Few year ago from web site of Dino Salvatierra:

"Jeung, Hung Sing began his fascination with Gung-Fu as a young lad, around 12 years old, when he heard of a person of who had some martial arts ability, Chan,Heung. Jeung,Hung-Sing, went to the Chan Village with his uncle pleading with the Chans to accept him to their school of Gung-Fu (THE CHAN FAMILY STYLE as it eas kwon by a this time). Unfortunately, since it was the customs then the was not accepted inmeaditly........."

Compare with the new versio.

Where is Li Yau San ?
Why Lau Bun don´t say anything about Li Yau San before the year 2007 (in dreams? like ghost?) hers disciples?

Liars, liars and liars; from hskwarrios? or from your sifu dino salvatierra? or from you sikung jew?

To be continued...

[hskwarrior]

Jeung, Hung Sing began his fascination with Gung-Fu as a young lad, around 12 years old, when he heard of a person of who had some martial arts ability, Chan,Heung. Jeung,Hung-Sing, went to the Chan Village with his uncle pleading with the Chans to accept him to their school of Gung-Fu (THE CHAN FAMILY STYLE as it eas kwon by a this time). Unfortunately, since it was the customs then the was not accepted inmeaditly........."

the oral transmission was "Jeung Hung Sing learned from Chan Heung and had to leave cause he beat up chan heung's students. Chan Heung sent him to Ching Cho. The history states that Jeung Hung Sing must have learned some gung fu prior to this because he picked up chan heung's gung fu with ease.....

When Qian Wei Fang passed down within the Hung Sing lineage, it was passed down to us as well because when Fut San re-opened, there was sooo much info about jeung hung sing people had no idea outside of Fut San. it makes sense. how would you know what's happening in san francisco if you were from los angeles?

so, when my sifu printed that, we hadn't confirmed the lee yau san idea. don't get it twisted, there is alot about CLF i've never revealed to knowing. and since you are in the dark, you can only assume.


Why Lau Bun don´t say anything about Li Yau San before the year 2007

what are you taking about? fut san re-opened in 1998/officially in 2001....we've been knowing this since then.......2007......lol!!!!


Liars, liars and liars; from hskwarrios? or from your sifu dino salvatierra? or from you sikung jew?

you are the liar. or is your sifu a liar? and what about his sifu?

[iron_silk]

look at it from this point of view.....you are building a car......and you got everything accept the engine......then i come along and provide you with an engine and you take off. is it fair if you said you completely built the car knowing that i helped you and not give me credit?

additionally, chan heung was still developing his system when jeung hung sing returned. he was welcomed back, and during his visit he managed to show chan heung what he learned. as someone who is still developing his system, it isn't impossible that chan heung saw the potential of adding in some new moves, regardless of it was from a former system. even more so since jeung hung sing learned another system altogether. it would be something different if he went back to chan heung to reteach him his own CLF based on jeung hung sing's experience.




not if chan heung considered jeung hung sing to be on a different level because of his achievements. i mean, jeung hung sing did say that if chan heung never helped him, he'd never have achieved what he did. But, not just that......when you are in the HUNG MUN, you are a brother...... equal.

see, my sifu is hung mun, so am i, i know he is still my sifu.....but in the hung mun its different. He has his position, i have mine.


Where is the evidence specifically that Jeung Yim materials is what Chan Heung used as the "engine" of Chan Family CLF?

Keep in mind Chan Heung also learned from 3 masters and have years of experience to his own.

It was one thing to say Jeung Yim showed Chan Heung what he learned from another master, but to say (unless you got some real proof that is) Jeung Yim is the sole reason and influence for Chan Heung's own CLF then not only does that spit in the face of his teachers but also the year's of hard work and experience Chan Heung himself went through.

I'm sure Jeung Yim's SiHingDai's who also mastered the style and went off to teach prior to Jeung Yim returning with Ching Cho's knowledge and attest to the formation of the CLF system.

So unless Chan Heung himself was so impressed with Jeung Yim and officially announced that they should be equals in this...I just can't imagine any support.

[CLFNole]

What if Jeong Yim only provided the windshield wipers? :p

[dragon323]

Hello

hskwarriors liars 2:

"i recall a story of Wu Van Cheuk trying to push that story onto Lun Chee who told him what he could do with it......hahahahaha."

The truth is that until sifu Wu Van Cheuk not die did not dare to invent such a story. He knew the truth, oral transmision from Chan Ngau Sing.


To be continued....

[hskwarrior]

Where is the evidence specifically that Jeung Yim materials is what Chan Heung used as the "engine" of Chan Family CLF?

take a look at their later material.....problem solved.


Keep in mind Chan Heung also learned from 3 masters and have years of experience to his own.

ok now what?


I'm sure Jeung Yim's SiHingDai's who also mastered the style and went off to teach prior to Jeung Yim returning with Ching Cho's knowledge and attest to the formation of the CLF system.


really? how sure are you?


So unless Chan Heung himself was so impressed with Jeung Yim and officially announced that they should be equals in this...I just can't imagine any support.

well, there you go!


What if Jeong Yim only provided the windshield wipers?

without them chan heung could wipe his windshields.....:p

[hskwarrior]

The truth is that until sifu Wu Van Cheuk not die did not dare to invent such a story. He knew the truth, oral transmision from Chan Ngau Sing.


well, he and lun chee will have to deal with that in heaven.......but till then.....how do you know he knew the truth?

[dragon323]

Hello

"When Qian Wei Fang passed down within the Hung Sing lineage, it was passed down to us as well because when Fut San re-opened, there was sooo much info about jeung hung sing people had no idea outside of Fut San. it makes sense. how would you know what's happening in san francisco if you were from los angeles?


You agree that reopened the Hung Sing Kwoon find new evidence, it is normal for you, but do not agree that opening China to the outside are new data.
You are ridiculous.

Lau Bun was not what had been his successor on the one?

Or is that no Jew Lew was ever chosen as successor by Lau Bun, but took advantage of the circumstances and his position of power to become the head of the school of Lau Bun?

I think it is finally closer to the truth for the data I have.

[hskwarrior]

Or is that no Jew Lew was ever chosen as successor by Lau Bun, but took advantage of the circumstances and his position of power to become the head of the school of Lau Bun?

there was no one more qualified than sigung Jew Leong to take over Hung Sing. if there were, someone would have stepped up. additionally, Jew Leong was already teaching in Chinatown when Professor Lau Bun passed away.

[hskwarrior]

Lau Bun was not what had been his successor on the one?

what? english please!!!!!

[iron_silk]

take a look at their later material.....problem solved.



ok now what?



really? how sure are you?



well, there you go!



without them chan heung could wipe his windshields.....:p

Hey Frank,

As impressive as your argument is...I'm afraid you didn't answer my post at all.

So their later materials (i.e. Jeung Yim's and Chan Hueng's lineage) looks the same or similar. Was that what you meant?

I'm no historian like yourself so I can't say I'm sure at all. But it does seem rather likely.

Chan Heung has years of experience and plenty of materials from his previous teachers. Your version of the history makes him seem like a puppet doll with nothing to do and nothing to offer and just waiting for Jeung Yim to come and give him the CLF System.

This not only seems unlikely but very insulting. No matter what Jeung Yim contributed to CLF Chan Heung was a full fledged master prior to Jeung Yim.

So what, right? Well this suggest that no matter what Jeung Yim learned and shared with Chan Heung it is unlikely for it to change what Chan Heung himself has learned and cultivated over the decades of experience.

[hskwarrior]

get off my nuts dude.

[iron_silk]

get off my nuts dude.

ha ha ha...believe me man...your nuts is one of the last places I want to be on.

I'm not trying to be difficult just joining in on the fun.

I mean I was just using common sense right? So it shouldn't be hard to agree or disagree with?

I think this time round everyone is way more mature compared to the past. I am very impressed.

[hskwarrior]

Chan Heung has years of experience and plenty of materials from his previous teachers.

and Jeung Hung Sing didn't?


Your version of the history makes him seem like a puppet doll with nothing to do and nothing to offer and just waiting for Jeung Yim to come and give him the CLF System.

don't put that blame on me....i'm not the only one that believes what i believe.


This not only seems unlikely but very insulting. No matter what Jeung Yim contributed to CLF Chan Heung was a full fledged master prior to Jeung Yim.

can you offer up anything to the contrary?


Well this suggest that no matter what Jeung Yim learned and shared with Chan Heung it is unlikely for it to change what Chan Heung himself has learned and cultivated over the decades of experience.

that's all fine and dandy, but i never asked you to participate in this conversation. you butted your way in.

[hskwarrior]

your nuts is one of the last places I want to be on.

well, the fact that you'd entertain the thought of being on them even if its the last thing is kinda wierd to me.

i would never be on your nuts no matter what.


I'm not trying to be difficult just joining in on the fun.


uhhhhhhh yes you are!


I think this time round everyone is way more mature compared to the past. I am very impressed.

great!

[iron_silk]

and Jeung Hung Sing didn't?



don't put that blame on me....i'm not the only one that believes what i believe.



can you offer up anything to the contrary?



that's all fine and dandy, but i never asked you to participate in this conversation. you butted your way in.


Oh come on Frank don't be like that.

You know I don't have issues with you on a personal level what so ever.

Unlike the others here I never even questioned your history and in fact I believe it could be true. I mean only recently people are saying Wing Chun wasn't actually based on a woman.

I'm just focusing on what Chan Heung himself, the man, probably contributed.

You seem like your getting angry when you shouldn't...I mean these are the type of questions you should be able to answer no problem if you are so sure of your version of history as you are.

I butt in because this is a public forum...but at least I am not insulting anybody at a personal level like some others do right?

[iron_silk]

well, the fact that you'd entertain the thought of being on them even if its the last thing is kinda wierd to me.

i would never be on your nuts no matter what.



uhhhhhhh yes you are!



great!

Ha ha ha ha....good one!

I am being difficult if I am arguing with you with no basis and no point other than to cause conflict.

I think I have some merit.

and it's for fun right? I mean none of this really means anything compared to the day to day lives and all the problems we face in this world.

[hskwarrior]

You know I don't have issues with you on a personal level what so ever.

with friends like you who needs enemies right?


You seem like your getting angry when you shouldn't...I mean these are the type of questions you should be able to answer no problem if you are so sure of your version of history as you are.

nah, sifu taught me better than to get angry over words. i just lose my respect for people like thats all.

and yeah i agree. but this forum is far from being a constructive place for this type of interaction.

[hskwarrior]

I think I have some merit.

as soon as you start sounding like the rest is when i stop talking.

now, we've met, and i'd discuss this in person with you, and would even show you the material i have. but on this forum.......hahahahah hell no.

[iron_silk]

with friends like you who needs enemies right?



nah, sifu taught me better than to get angry over words. i just lose my respect for people like thats all.

and yeah i agree. but this forum is far from being a constructive place for this type of interaction.


Look I think your a cool guy, so I'll back off if you ask me to.

But I guess you wouldn't be asking me to unless you didn't have a good answer for my questions right?

Good luck!

[extrajoseph]

There you are my a little pusthy cat, calm down and be nice.:)

[hskwarrior]

and it's for fun right? I mean none of this really means anything compared to the day to day lives and all the problems we face in this world.

or i can have the chinese mafia pay you a visit! :p;)

[iron_silk]

as soon as you start sounding like the rest is when i stop talking.

now, we've met, and i'd discuss this in person with you, and would even show you the material i have. but on this forum.......hahahahah hell no.

That's not fair...you answered joseph and clfnole's specific questions and arguments against your history.

I never even questions ching cho or Hung mun...my question was simple. Couldn't you answer that?

I know you can kick my ass so I'd think twice before meeting in person ;)

p.s. sorry for breaking my promise

[hskwarrior]

But I guess you wouldn't be asking me to unless you didn't have a good answer for my questions right?

Good luck!

i never asked you to back off....i said get off my nuts.....but if you want to ride the band wagon, don't get arse hurt if its a bumpy ride. right?;):D

[hskwarrior]

there you are my a little pusthy cat, calm down and be nice.

[size="5"]you're a freak!!!!! :D:D:D /size]

[iron_silk]

i never asked you to back off....i said get off my nuts.....but if you want to ride the band wagon, don't get arse hurt if its a bumpy ride. right?;):D

I like to think I ride in my own wagon...

[hskwarrior]

hey ford pinto station wagons fit you bra!!!!

[iron_silk]

hey ford pinto station wagons fit you bra!!!!

As long as it runs...it's all good!

[hskwarrior]

hahahahahah

a bucket is a bucket.....as long as it gets you there right?

[iron_silk]

hahahahahah

a bucket is a bucket.....as long as it gets you there right?

Some may call me cheap...I like to think I'm practical.

[hskwarrior]

you don't take a shower once a week to conserve water do you? or take your car out in the rain with some soap and water and let the rain clean your car do you?

[iron_silk]

you don't take a shower once a week to conserve water do you? or take your car out in the rain with some soap and water and let the rain clean your car do you?

No....and Yes! :)

[hskwarrior]

OMG.....lmao......can you take video of that please?

[iron_silk]

OMG.....lmao......can you take video of that please?

Too late...I already sold the car!

Parking is way too expensive where i work so it's just cheaper to use public transit.

[hskwarrior]

you should get you some hazzard lights and blinkers for your shoes then!!!!

imagine raising your arm everytime you turned a corner....hahaha

[iron_silk]

I like how we successfully hi-jacked joseph's thread though.

[hskwarrior]

hahahaha me too!

[extrajoseph]

But you can't delete it and it is all on record how you hi-jacked and admitted it.:D

[iron_silk]

But you can't delete it and it is all on record how you hi-jacked and admitted it.:D

Wooow there...I only just met Frank...I don't even know his name.

[extrajoseph]

No Worries, just having a bit of fun on Frank. :D

[hskwarrior]

and i too on you joe!! its been fun.....this forum has been real boring lately