XJ Question

[CLFNole]

XJ:

I found the data about Chan Yiu Chi interesting. I know your dad wasn' part of Group 1 but was he part of Group 2 - War Hap Yee Sing (Uniting Together of the Immortals) or Group 3 - Yee Sup Sei Sing Suks (24 Immortal Uncles)? (I get a kick out of the fancy names)

Also was wondering if you could take a look at this video. The sifu was from the Guandong area and his version of sup gee kow dah is virtually identical to the one I do. I was wondering if yours is the same?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnULvEnZzFc

Thanks.

Regarding the sup gee video I would like to hear how alike or different it is than the one you practice.

[extrajoseph]

Hi LFNole,

Fairly much the same, that means some of your forms could also have came from the Chan line.

XJ

[CLFNole]

Actually most of our forms do come from the Chan line from what I have seen. We have a few that are different but mostly Chan line.

What about Question #1? I found his methodology of teaching different groups kind of interesting and smart for time.

[extrajoseph]

Hi CLFNole,

These groups are for the indoor disciples, the inner chamber ones don't have a title.;)

My father was too poor to pay for the lessons, so he was neither of these, but he managed to be in the kitchen most of the time, so to speak. The smartest thing he did was to get us out of China and gave me a university education.

He was a great admirer of Chan Yiu-Chi, the classic martial/scholar and installed a respect of the Chan family on me. That is why I get fairly uptight when Frank tries to belittle them.

[Sunyang]

XJ:

I found the data about Chan Yiu Chi interesting. I know your dad wasn' part of Group 1 but was he part of Group 2 - War Hap Yee Sing (Uniting Together of the Immortals) or Group 3 - Yee Sup Sei Sing Suks (24 Immortal Uncles)? (I get a kick out of the fancy names)

Also was wondering if you could take a look at this video. The sifu was from the Guandong area and his version of sup gee kow dah is virtually identical to the one I do. I was wondering if yours is the same?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnULvEnZzFc

Thanks.

Regarding the sup gee video I would like to hear how alike or different it is than the one you practice.

Hi CLFNole ( and XJ too...), it's possible to know the name of Chan Yu Chi disciple....for each groups?

Thank!!

SY

[Sunyang]

Actually most of our forms do come from the Chan line from what I have seen. We have a few that are different but mostly Chan line.

What about Question #1? I found his methodology of teaching different groups kind of interesting and smart for time.

Hi CLFnole, do you know this website?
http://poondik.org/Poondik/Home.html
Have you some info about Poon Dik?
He studied under Wong Fook Wing 黄福荣 and Leong Gwei 梁贵 and Chan Koon Pak too or only with the firs two?
There are no interesting info about PD in internet?

Thank!!

SY

[extrajoseph]

Hi SY,

If you can get hold of a copy of the commemorative notes for the return to the origin tour in 2002 you can see the names of nearly 80 of his disciples.

As to the 3 groups, they are not that fixed and not written down in black and white as far as I know, but I could be wrong.

It is a clever conceptual idea for teaching a large number of students and give each other a competitive incentive to do better, as well as a rough area to concentrate, but they intermingled and fluctuated over time.

For example, the Four Heavenly Kings were in reality the ones who took on the fights and the challenges and there were more than four over time.

There is also a picture of his 12 inner chamber disciples taken during the early republicans era, but no names were given but they be researched.

The most interesting article for Frank (may be not, since he turns a blind eye on the Chan side of things) would be the one written by Chen Zhong-Jie, where he wrote about the relationship between the Hung Mun (overturn the Qing and restore the Ming) symbolism and the CLF Kai Jong, as well as the revolutionary meanings of the CLF couplets.

[hskwarrior]

no, don't get me wrong EJ......it's not that i'm not interested, it's that im sticking to MY family's history. I would like to know more about Chan Heung's Hung Mun involvement since if he was a member, he'd be my society brother "as we are all brothers under HEAVEN".

Now, if you want to post anything, i'm willing to check it out. Just from what i know, and what i see in Chan Family material is a little different than the Hung Mun symbolism in mine.

Because i am more convinced about our history.......i can take a look at yours now.

This is an honest question.....not a shot......."if the Hung Mun aspect of Chan Family stopped with Chan Heung and not continued by neither Koon Pak nor Chan Yiu Chi.....what generation of CLF and Hung Mun Chen Zhong-Jie does he mention?

however....


Hung Mun (overturn the Qing and restore the Ming)

wasn't the original sentiments.......it was more violent in its original stages. more like KILL the Qing or Exterminate the Ching. IMHO it's very important to know what they were going through in those times. while other secret societies had consequences if caught, it was primarily the HUNG society that INSTANT DECAPITATION was mandated.

[hskwarrior]

I will ask you this EJ........since you are basically ancient......

In hong kong........there was Buk Sing Master who was the Loong Tau for the Hung Mun, and till this day THAT position there has NOT been filled. My Dai Gor was a soldier under that Loong Tau.........

Do you know whom i'm talking about. Its one of the only Buk Sing master you just don't hear about.

[Sunyang]

Hi SY,

If you can get hold of a copy of the commemorative notes for the return to the origin tour in 2002 you can see the names of nearly 80 of his disciples.

Thank yoo XJ, I can try to get a copy asking to Sifu Chen Yong Fa?

SY

[Shaolindynasty]

Also was wondering if you could take a look at this video. The sifu was from the Guandong area and his version of sup gee kow dah is virtually identical to the one I do. I was wondering if yours is the same?


It's almost exactly the same as ours also. Our opening is slightly different though. this is my favorite form

[Sunyang]

For example, the Four Heavenly Kings were in reality the ones who took on the fights and the challenges and there were more than four over time.


Hi XJ, I found this: "...Chan Yiu Chi’s four most senior disciples were Woo Wan Cheuk, Kan Ying Kit, Har Pic Chi
and Ngoi Kong Yeung. They were nicknamed The “Four Heavenly Great Kings” of Choy Lee
Fut..."

From an article named GRANDMASTER LI IU LING – Choy Lee Fut Zhongshi par excellence.

SY

[extrajoseph]

no, don't get me wrong EJ......it's not that i'm not interested, it's that im sticking to MY family's history. I would like to know more about Chan Heung's Hung Mun involvement since if he was a member, he'd be my society brother "as we are all brothers under HEAVEN".

Now, if you want to post anything, i'm willing to check it out. Just from what i know, and what i see in Chan Family material is a little different than the Hung Mun symbolism in mine.

Because i am more convinced about our history.......i can take a look at yours now.

This is an honest question.....not a shot......."if the Hung Mun aspect of Chan Family stopped with Chan Heung and not continued by neither Koon Pak nor Chan Yiu Chi.....what generation of CLF and Hung Mun Chen Zhong-Jie does he mention?


I gave you the website info before but you had it deleted, so it is your bad luck. Pity about the CLF movie thread, you have got it deleted as well.

[extrajoseph]

Hi XJ, I found this: "...Chan Yiu Chi’s four most senior disciples were Woo Wan Cheuk, Kan Ying Kit, Har Pic Chi
and Ngoi Kong Yeung. They were nicknamed The “Four Heavenly Great Kings” of Choy Lee
Fut..."

From an article named GRANDMASTER LI IU LING – Choy Lee Fut Zhongshi par excellence.

SY

Well done, I am not really into titles myself and I think they must have been the last lot of the Sidai Tianwang, but I could be wrong.

[CLFNole]

Didn't Har Bik Chi's daughter continue to teach? I thought she may have retired in Canada or possibl the states.

XJ:

Was Chan Yiu Chi well known for a particular hand or weapon set?

[CLFNole]

Hi CLFnole, do you know this website?
http://poondik.org/Poondik/Home.html
Have you some info about Poon Dik?
He studied under Wong Fook Wing 黄福荣 and Leong Gwei 梁贵 and Chan Koon Pak too or only with the firs two?
There are no interesting info about PD in internet?

Thank!!

SY

I won't say much about that website other than there are some political motives behind it.

As far as I know Poon Dik studied with Leung Kwai and Wong Fook who both had studied byChan Koon Pak. I know Leung Kwai also studied with Jeong Yim but not sure about Wong Fook.

[Sunyang]

I won't say much about that website other than there are some political motives behind it.

As far as I know Poon Dik studied with Leung Kwai and Wong Fook who both had studied byChan Koon Pak. I know Leung Kwai also studied with Jeong Yim but not sure about Wong Fook.

Thank you brother!!

SY

[extrajoseph]

Didn't Har Bik Chi's daughter continue to teach? I thought she may have retired in Canada or possibl the states.

XJ:

Was Chan Yiu Chi well known for a particular hand or weapon set?

Har Gim-Ping taught in HK for a while and then went to her children in Canada. Chen Yiu Chi was well known for his nei-lim-sou (behind the curtain hands) and the wooden dummies. He carries a fan most of the time and used it very effectively. My father said he can pick up anything and use it as a weapon, and make a kung fu set out of it that looked and felt like nothing but pure CLF.

[extrajoseph]

I won't say much about that website other than there are some political motives behind it.

As far as I know Poon Dik studied with Leung Kwai and Wong Fook who both had studied by Chan Koon Pak. I know Leung Kwai also studied with Jeong Yim but not sure about Wong Fook.

There were a lot of cross training in the olden days, so even though there were three names of the same sound but different characters used over time, we share many of the same things together and strictly speaking they are not three separate branches. Bak-Sing came later and I have been told even Tam Sarm was reluctant to use the term Bak Sing at first, but that is a story I don't want to get into.:cool:

Another way to classify CLF is by areas like Xinhui CLF, Jiangmen CLF, Foshan CLF and Guangzhou CLF as well as Beisheng CLF (I used pinyin here). This is an olden way of doing things, not very popular today because now we travel too much.

[CLFNole]

Chen Yiu Chi was well known for his nei-lim-sou (behind the curtain hands) and the wooden dummies. He carries a fan most of the time and used it very effectively. My father said he can pick up anything and use it as a weapon, and make a kung fu set out of it that looked and felt like nothing but pure CLF.

I had read about his skill with the dummies. It is interesting and I would imagine many people did take him for granted becuase looking at him you wouldn't think much as he appears rather frail in most pictures.

Regarding the dummies and I am not sure if you would know this or not but at any time were all 18 actually built or are some merely conceptual? It mentioned Koon Pak was really well known for the dummies so I would imagine they were all built at some time just not now.

[CLFNole]

Another way to classify CLF is by areas like Xinhui CLF, Jiangmen CLF, Foshan CLF and Guangzhou CLF as well as Beisheng CLF (I used pinyin here). This is an olden way of doing things, not very popular today because now we travel too much.

Actually this is a good way to look at it as you can see different nuiances from each area. I have seen some stuff from Jiangmen and they do somethings differently. A friend of mine who has learned a bit from a lineage there mentioned that the arc of the sow choy is more along a hoizontal plane rather than the angle that we use and it had something to do with the fact that many of the villagers in that area were short so the sow choy was adapted. I don't know if this is true or not but it miight make sense.

[extrajoseph]

It takes money and space and time to train the dummies, so they got done not so much in the first generation but in the second and third. Then the Chinese civil war, the Japanese invasion and the Communist rule came, so the fourth generation mainly missed out until recent times they got revived. According to Chen Yong Fa, the only time all 18 of them got done in one place was in Choy Bak Tat's (Chen Yiu Chi's disciple) home, he came from a really rich family. These 18 dummies are not conceptual and there are detail drawings one can use to build one.

[CLFNole]

That is kinda what I thought. Given space constraints of modern society I doubt some will ever be built as I am sure dummies from other styles have been lost over time. At least they still have all the plans to build them if needed but I would imagine that some of the skill in using the older dummies that haven't been around for a while would be lost. Yes a skilled CLF player could figure the dummy out but that still isn't the same as being instructed on how to use a dummy by someone who also used and mastered it.

[extrajoseph]

Actually this is a good way to look at it as you can see different nuiances from each area. I have seen some stuff from Jiangmen and they do somethings differently. A friend of mine who has learned a bit from a lineage there mentioned that the arc of the sow choy is more along a hoizontal plane rather than the angle that we use and it had something to do with the fact that many of the villagers in that area were short so the sow choy was adapted. I don't know if this is true or not but it miight make sense.

I think Doc Fai also lean towards this way of classify things. I don't know who started this Chen family thing, but I am not a fan of it because it was not the intention of Chan Heung in the first place, otherwise he would have called what he has created Choy Lee Chen. He deliberately not used his family name to make sure it is a Shaolin art for all and not just to glorify his family, but it seems to have stuck.

[extrajoseph]

That is kinda what I thought. Given space constraints of modern society I doubt some will ever be built as I am sure dummies from other styles have been lost over time. At least they still have all the plans to build them if needed but I would imagine that some of the skill in using the older dummies that haven't been around for a while would be lost. Yes a skilled CLF player could figure the dummy out but that still isn't the same as being instructed on how to use a dummy by someone who also used and mastered it.

There will be CLF affectionados who will make them in their living room like a piece of work of art to impress their friends!:D Especially the ones with the wheels running and the loaded springs springing all over the place and the wooden planks bouncing back and forth and up and down, making a racket...

[CLFNole]

I think the term Chan Family CLF is something modern and likely created on these forums due to lack of knowledge as to how to classify them. I think most people look at "Chan Family" if you will, as the CLF that has stayed down the family line to Chan Wing Fat. Then it gets confusing with the 2 hung sings - Koon Paks & Jeong Yims.

Personally I wish we could all just call it CLF instead of being so segmented, but that is human nature.

[CLFNole]

There will be CLF affectionados who will make them in their living room like a piece of work of art to impress their friends!:D Especially the ones with the wheels running and the loaded springs springing all over the place and the wooden planks bouncing back and forth and up and down, making a racket...

I would imagine they keep these plans rather guarded, no?

[Mano Mano]

Actually this is a good way to look at it as you can see different nuiances from each area. I have seen some stuff from Jiangmen and they do somethings differently. A friend of mine who has learned a bit from a lineage there mentioned that the arc of the sow choy is more along a hoizontal plane rather than the angle that we use and it had something to do with the fact that many of the villagers in that area were short so the sow choy was adapted. I don't know if this is true or not but it miight make sense. It’s interesting what you said about Jiangmen & arc of the sow choy Fong Yuk Shu 方玉书 from my CLF lineage spent time there & our sow choy’s usually done a along a horizontal plane/

[Shaolindynasty]

Our sau choy travels mostly at a downward arc and we are from the Fong Yuk Shu line

[Mano Mano]

Our sau choy travels mostly at a downward arc and we are from the Fong Yuk Shu lineWe actually do both but mostly the horizontal plane.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEgedGH94Iw&feature=channel_page

[extrajoseph]

I would imagine they keep these plans rather guarded, no?

With our electronic age it is difficult to keep secrets. They already built some in the King Mui Ancestral Hall and Xinhui Training Hall, all one needs is a camera to capture the constructions.

[extrajoseph]

Actually this is a good way to look at it as you can see different nuiances from each area. I have seen some stuff from Jiangmen and they do somethings differently. A friend of mine who has learned a bit from a lineage there mentioned that the arc of the sow choy is more along a hoizontal plane rather than the angle that we use and it had something to do with the fact that many of the villagers in that area were short so the sow choy was adapted. I don't know if this is true or not but it miight make sense.

These things should be adopted to the person and not just the area, if everyone has short arms then that might ended up the case, but in general, the same place has different expression of the same thing.

[Sunyang]

These things should be adopted to the person and not just the area, if everyone has short arms then that might ended up the case, but in general, the same place has different expression of the same thing.

Hi XJ, i don't understand a thing....you father is one of the Chan Yu Chi disciple (or student?)?

SY

[extrajoseph]

Hi SY,

He learned from Chen Yiu Chi for a while.

[Sunyang]

Hi SY,

He learned from Chen Yiu Chi for a while.

Oh...you have a great father!!
There are some big breacks in the CLF world today but I hope that the next generation (and our generation), using internet for a right cause, could be better than now!!

SY

[extrajoseph]

CLF is fairly unified at the moment; the only trouble spot is Futshan, but the political system in China will keep it in check, so the only avenue they have is to encourage their overseas students to sow the seeds of discontent, hoping it will turn into a storm, but their number is too small to be of any consequence and they don't have the materials or the resources to change history.

On top of this, everyone no matter what their lineage belongs to, understood that a unified CLF is far more productive and profitable than a fragmented one, so there is a limit to any open conflicts.

You should not judge what goes on here as the reality, it is just an internet forum and the verbal fights between me and Frank are personal, we don't formally represent any CLF schools or official points of view and often we just have some fun together to pass the time. Frank is my CLF brother, admittedly a dim-witted one, but he is still my brother. :-)

You don't do CLF, so you would not understand the CLF blood is thicker than water and that is the way it was meant to be, right from the beginning, and hopefully it will continue into the future.

[Sunyang]

CLF is fairly unified at the moment; the only trouble spot is Futshan, but the political system in China will keep it in check, so the only avenue they have is to encourage their overseas students to sow the seeds of discontent, hoping it will turn into a storm, but their number is too small to be of any consequence and they don't have the materials or the resources to change history.

On top of this, everyone no matter what their lineage belongs to, understood that a unified CLF is far more productive and profitable than a fragmented one, so there is a limit to any open conflicts.

You should not judge what goes on here as the reality, it is just an internet forum and the verbal fights between me and Frank are personal, we don't formally represent any CLF schools or official points of view and often we just have some fun together to pass the time. Frank is my CLF brother, admittedly a dim-witted one, but he is still my brother. :-)

You don't do CLF, so you would not understand the CLF blood is thicker than water and that is the way it was meant to be, right from the beginning, and hopefully it will continue into the future.

Dear XJ, I'm speaking about my country, in Italy the Choy Lay Fut reality is not very good there are a lot of dispute..., I don't speaking about the forum, I know that a forum is only a forum!
And after I practice CLF from 15 years, but I prefer to speak about CLF and my Master privatly and if you want you can send me a pm. :cool:

Thank for your reply.

SY

[extrajoseph]

Hi SY,

There is a Chinese saying, "In literature there is no number 1 and in martial arts there is no number 2" so there will always be conflicts and it is how we deal with them the matters. My father said to me once, " Fighting is not about winning, fighting is about surviving." Will CLF survive and keeps its tradition? That is what we should be fighting for. There will always be disputes, let them make us stronger, not weaker and fallen apart. How can we do it? Step back once a while and see the bigger picture, before we get lost in the maze of our ego.

Don't lose hope, for that is what makes us human (and a survivor).

My best wishes,
XJ

PS, Sorry I will not send you a pm, I don't have enough time to do my own practice and I have said all I want to say already.

[Sunyang]

Hi SY,

There is a Chinese saying, "In literature there is no number 1 and in martial arts there is no number 2" so there will always be conflicts and it is how we deal with them the matters. My father said to me once, " Fighting is not about winning, fighting is about surviving." Will CLF survive and keeps its tradition? That is what we should be fighting for. There will always be disputes, let them make us stronger, not weaker and fallen apart. How can we do it? Step back once a while and see the bigger picture, before we get lost in the maze of our ego.

Don't lose hope, for that is what makes us human (and a survivor).

My best wishes,
XJ

PS, Sorry I will not send you a pm, I don't have enough time to do my own practice and I have said all I want to say already.


Good post!!
Thank you XJ!!!

SY

[Violent Designs]

You don't do CLF, so you would not understand the CLF blood is thicker than water and that is the way it was meant to be, right from the beginning, and hopefully it will continue into the future.

For every person that I meet who seems to disregard brotherhood within CLF there seems to be more than do. And for this, I am glad, to have friends from Hung Sing, Buk Sing and Chan Family CLF.

[hskwarrior]

it is just an internet forum and the verbal fights between me and Frank are personal, we don't formally represent any CLF schools or official points of view and often we just have some fun together to pass the time. Frank is my CLF brother, admittedly a dim-witted one, but he is still my brother. :-)

oh, so i'm if your dim witted brother......you are my SPECIAL brother. And it is only history we are arguing over.......in the bigger scheme of things......there's nothing to hate each other over. IMHO. dim-witted as i may be :p now put your protective helmet back on before you fall down. :D

[hskwarrior]

For every person that I meet who seems to disregard brotherhood within CLF there seems to be more than do. And for this, I am glad, to have friends from Hung Sing, Buk Sing and Chan Family CLF.

All brothers fight. It's a family thing. We don't have to agree with each other.....but when the chips fall.......ALL CLF brothers SHOULD band together against a common foe. but as we maneuver thru the historical mess, we all come out stronger

[Violent Designs]

Of course Frank we are three different families. And families, brothers have disputes all the time. That's how they are. We're a giant dysfunctional family but still a family at the end of the day. :cool:

[JAZA]

the CLF blood is thicker than water and that is the way it was meant to be, right from the beginning, and hopefully it will continue into the future.

Amen !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[hskwarrior]

We're a giant dysfunctional family but still a family at the end of the day.

dysfunctional working to become "FUNCTIONAL"

[Eric Olson]

I won't say much about that website other than there are some political motives behind it.

As far as I know Poon Dik studied with Leung Kwai and Wong Fook who both had studied byChan Koon Pak. I know Leung Kwai also studied with Jeong Yim but not sure about Wong Fook.

http://www.networksolutions.com/whois-search/poondik.org

Registrant Name:James Wong
Registrant Organization:Poon Dik World Choy Lay Fut Hung Sing Association
Registrant Street1:64 Meadowbrook Drive
Registrant Street2:
Registrant Street3:
Registrant City:San Francisco
Registrant State/Province:California
Registrant Postal Code:94132
Registrant Country:US
Registrant Phone:+1.6507384358
Registrant Phone Ext.:
Registrant FAX:
Registrant FAX Ext.:
Registrant Email:wongja@smccd.edu

and ta da!!!....

http://www.smccd.edu/accounts/wongja/Home.html

[CLFNole]

Why would you post this? It has nothing to do with anything.

[CLFNole]

XJ:

Saw that you are online and I just got home from teaching and yum cha.

I was wondering if you have seen all 5 fan sets. Can't remember all the names but fei lung si (flying dragon fan) and soi sow sin (hand breaking fan) seem to be the most common. I was wondering if the other 3 are still taught?

[Violent Designs]

Why would you post this? It has nothing to do with anything.

Eric Olson works in mysterious ways. :p

[extrajoseph]

XJ:

Saw that you are online and I just got home from teaching and yum cha.

I was wondering if you have seen all 5 fan sets. Can't remember all the names but fei lung si (flying dragon fan) and soi sow sin (hand breaking fan) seem to be the most common. I was wondering if the other 3 are still taught?

Hi CLFNole,

I have not seen all five of them and you are right, fei lung sin and soi sow sin are the two most popular. I just love the sound when the fan unfolds really fast, the old ones are made of pointed metal with its ribs and tough silk in between, so it can be quite deadly. When unfolded it works like a projectile and when folded it can be used like a short weapon.

XJ

[CLFNole]

I had heard that the middle rib was pointed, never that all were pointed but that would probably make more sense. Yeah that sound is quite nice.

[Eric Olson]

Why would you post this? It has nothing to do with anything.


You said the site had political motives. This is the publisher of the site. Does he have political motives?

EO

[hskwarrior]

yeah, what is their agenda? Political motives? i don't see any political motives. I don't think that guy has any political motives.

[CLFNole]

You said the site had political motives. This is the publisher of the site. Does he have political motives?

EO

The reason for the site might have some political motives. I don't know who the guy who made the website is but it has nothing to do with what I am talking about so putting up his info wasn't called for (it has a phone number for god's sake). Besides someone asked me what I thought of the site and that was my answer. Your not CLF anymore, why do you care?

Frank:

It is not the politics you are thinking about nothing to do with history or anything like that. Again what I was referring to has nothing to do with the guy who put up the site.

That is all I am going to say about this matter but the general idea of a Poon Dik Association is nice.

[Eric Olson]

The reason for the site might have some political motives. I don't know who the guy who made the website is but it has nothing to do with what I am talking about

I already addressed why I posted it.



so putting up his info wasn't called for (it has a phone number for god's sake).

Actually, it's publicly available by doing a whois search. You can find the contact info for every website unless the person has opted to keep it private through his/her domain registrar.



[ Besides someone asked me what I thought of the site and that was my answer. Your not CLF anymore, why do you care?

Because I care about the truth.

[Eric Olson]

yeah, what is their agenda? Political motives? i don't see any political motives. I don't think that guy has any political motives.

Is he even CLF? Seems weird that he would have a Poon Dik website if he wasn't?

[hskwarrior]

I agree. And, since he's just a few miles away....i plan on speaking with him. It says he's a professor in history.......so it would be nice to get in his mind.

[CLFNole]

To reiterate that guy has nothing to do with what I was talking about, zero, zip, nada.

[hskwarrior]

don't trip. i only want to see him for his knowledge on history. not ours....

[CLFNole]

I wasn't really talking to you regarding the last reply but rather Fu Pow/EO.

Not really sure what you might get out of history from him but I can tell you have heard different versions of history from the same people. I don't think history in our lineage was ever of major importance but I could be wrong. Always thought it was more about the kung fu.

[hskwarrior]

i'm not talking about CLF history,.......just history in general.

[Eric Olson]

To reiterate that guy has nothing to do with what I was talking about, zero, zip, nada.

You mean the original topic? Sorry to derail your thread but that's how it goes with forums. Once you post, you have little control over how it plays out.

EO