fed up with wing chun

[IRONMONK]

I've finally had enough of wing chun. I've trained for a 8yrs but feel unsatisfied at my current progress and have no motivation..It seems the instructor that I was training with seems to hold things back and I'm unimpressed by the other wing chun instructors in my area.

Thinking of taking thai boxing and escrima.Any of you wing chun guys practice these arts? Do you use "wing chun concepts" when you practice these arts?

[sanjuro_ronin]

After 8 years in ANY MA, you should be able to kick ass and take names.

[IRONMONK]

After 8 years in ANY MA, you should be able to kick ass and take names.

But what if your 147 lbs and 5ft 9 and not a natural athlete ?

One of the things that attracted me to wing chun was the idea that a smaller person could beat a bigger guy but this is more difficult in practise !

[Frost]

But what if your 147 lbs and 5ft 9 ?

One of the things that attracted me to wing chun was the idea that a smaller person could beat a bigger guy but this is more difficult in practise !

(Note to self, and to sanjuro ronin, do not get involved in another size doesn't matter argument)

You might find you use aspects of your wing chun in Thai boxing, (especially in the clinch work were any sensitivity you have gained will be a big help) but ultimately they are different styles so at the very least if you are fed up it will be a change and might be just what you need

[CFT]

Where are you based? Find another teacher further afield?

[Vajramusti]

Good and knowledgeable wing chun teachers are not easy to find.

As far as sensible dialogue on many subjects specially martial arts and most specially wing chun- this quote is perceptive:

“The velocity and volume on the Web are so great that nothing is forgotten and nothing is remembered,” says Leon Wieseltier, the literary editor of The New Republic. “The Internet is like closing time at a blue-collar bar in Boston. Everyone’s drunk and ugly and they’re going to pass out in a few minutes.”

Start your engines!

joy chaudhuri

[couch]

I've finally had enough of wing chun. I've trained for a 8yrs but feel unsatisfied at my current progress and have no motivation..It seems the instructor that I was training with seems to hold things back and I'm unimpressed by the other wing chun instructors in my area.

Thinking of taking thai boxing and escrima.Any of you wing chun guys practice these arts? Do you use "wing chun concepts" when you practice these arts?

First: I'm really sorry. I went to a karate/kung-fu mix of a school. They watered things down and held me back for 8-9 years. It wasn't until I got more martial arts exposure and matured in my early 20's that I realized that I hard partly wasted my time. I feel your pain!

Like SR said, 8 years is a bit much. When you look at more of the 'pressure-tested' arts, you'll see that within 1-2 years, you're banging with the big boys. I can see the issue....if you get back into Wing Chun, you'll want to fast track and make it work. And part of you has been let down, so it honestly might be easier to just switch arts.

So the way I see it, you've got a few options:
1. Find another Wing Chun instructor, tell them the deal and fast track your learning.
2. Take what you've got and make it your own. Research other families via youtube, bittorrent, DVDs, etc. Spar, spar, spar and make your WC your own.
3. Drop the Chun and get into something else. You'll notice similarities of angles, etc that will easily translate from your Wing Chun into any martial art/system. Don't feel like you've completely wasted your time.

Wish you all the best in your journey,
K

[Xiao3 Meng4]

But what if your 147 lbs and 5ft 9 and not a natural athlete ?

One of the things that attracted me to wing chun was the idea that a smaller person could beat a bigger guy but this is more difficult in practise !

I'm 6'1 and 150lbs. I started Wing Chun in 97. I trained for 5 years, and was feeling pretty good about my striking skills, then promptly got demolished by an internal stylist. So I checked out Tai Ji, Xing Yi, and Ba Gua. It was cool, and I took some classes, but the instructor kept mentioning this guy in town who did a form of Zi Ran Men, and eventually suggested that I go train that. So I found the guy, and boy am I ever glad I did!

From my experience, training in another art will not "degrade" your Wing Chun; on the contrary, I find that the more I learn, the more perspective I get on what Wing Chun is and how it's meant to develop skill.

Wing Chun was often described to me as an art that you would traditionally learn once you had a strong MA/fighting background. It's only somewhat recently that Wing Chun has been taught as a base art/skill set.

My recommendation: If you have any internal schools in the area, check them out... otherwise, your Muay Thai/MMA idea sounds good! Maybe consider Judo as well?

[IRONMONK]

I don't feel my training has been a complete waste of time ..i think i've got a decent punch(used to be extremely featherfisted) and have used it successfully in a streetfight.

However, the last few years it seems that the instructor is holding back on the advanced techniques etc and as a result my progress has stagnated IMO

[Yoshiyahu]

I don't feel my training has been a complete waste of time ..i think i've got a decent punch(used to be extremely featherfisted) and have used it successfully in a streetfight.

However, the last few years it seems that the instructor is holding back on the advanced techniques etc and as a result my progress has stagnated IMO

What sorta of advance techniques do you feel your lacking?

Also do you know all three hands forms?

You may need to begin to meditate, drill, test, and spar with new techniques.

Keep in mind that most instructors train WC as their lively hood. its a business. Plus they may not even have the advance techniques you seek. But you know what it doesn't mind. So they may or may not want to give out all their trade secrets. If they even have any. Ha Ha. But after a while many techniques should be revealed to you by simply practicing, meditating and sparring with different people.

Seek out other WChunners in your area. Attempt to context with them and learn from one another. Also the video thing is good. Since you have a strong foundation you can look at videos and read insightful books on WC to increase your knowledge of your art.

[sanjuro_ronin]

But what if your 147 lbs and 5ft 9 and not a natural athlete ?

One of the things that attracted me to wing chun was the idea that a smaller person could beat a bigger guy but this is more difficult in practise !

In 8 years of training in ANY MA that actually involves fighting, you should be able to fight, regardless of size.

[Ultimatewingchun]

1) If he's holding back after all this time, get out of there.

2) If you're not doing some serious contact sparring (including headshots) on a very regular basis, ie.- at least once a week, get out of there.

3) If you're over the "I'm a small guy who's looking for the silver bullet in order to beat bigger guys" idea (that lots of wing chun instructors try to sell), then get out of there and get into a Muay Thai, boxing, or kickboxing school that spars regularly.

This third option might be the best idea, as some exposure to other striking systems like the ones I mentioned would be good for you sooner or later anyway - as it would expand your striking horizons for the better even if you were satisfied with your present school.

[Lindley]

Are you at liberty to say who the Sifu is? Have you sat down and talked to your Sifu about how you feel? If so, what was his response? Do you do anything more than just attend class - hang out at his house, get together with others after class or other days?

I don't agree that after 8 years you should be anything but yourself. Time goes by quickly. I have seen those claiming to be in martial arts for over 10 years and they can't fight at all. Keep in mind that you train martial arts for a goal. You should be charting milestones. There are good instructors and bad ones. but make sure you have made yourself heard. Remember, your Sifu has many students but you have only one Sifu.

Do you have any relationship with a Sihing who can show you these "advanced" techniques you think the Sifu is holding back?

[chusauli]

What is being withheld?

[monji112000]

I've finally had enough of wing chun. I've trained for a 8yrs but feel unsatisfied at my current progress and have no motivation..It seems the instructor that I was training with seems to hold things back and I'm unimpressed by the other wing chun instructors in my area.

Thinking of taking thai boxing and escrima.Any of you wing chun guys practice these arts? Do you use "wing chun concepts" when you practice these arts?

A famous Wing Chun Sifu has said many times if you don't have a good WC teacher in your area learn from whatever style you can find that has a good teacher. Whats good for one person isn't good for another.. so try the thai boxing and escima see if you like it. I know a few people that do kali or whatever its called.. I can't figure out the differences.. but they both have triangle style footwork and many similarities .. but also many differences. It really depends on the style of WC you are leaving.. The thai boxing personally from experience will be hard. The footwork is very different. Depending on the style of Thai boxing you may be doing allot of different things. Thai boxing may be more for you.. keep a open mind.

[IRONMONK]

What is being withheld?

the more finer details
for example every time i ask about short power he will give a vague explanation

[Ultimatewingchun]

And you'd be wise to take that vagueness at face value, regardless of his motivations.

Because focusing on short power is just that: short. On practicality. Because you need to develop power in all kinds of strikes, whether they be short, medium, or long range. It's not practical to think that short range power is all you'll need.

For example, the one inch punch is nonsense. And throwing chain punches from just 6-8-10-12 inches away is also limited in what it will do for you. Throwing any kind of punch that never travels more than 12 inches or so will never cut it.

You want to be able to fight well?

Then you better develop power with all kinds and ranges of punches (and other strikes).

[Lee Chiang Po]

If you have not developed strong confidence in your fighting skills after 8 years, I seriously doubt that Thai boxing or some other fighting form is going to be any better for you. If you feel as if your fists are feathery, buy yourself a pair of brass knuckles. They add lots of power to your punch.

[SergeTk]

If you looking for MA where you can use your WC skills........... you would need closerange internal/external art...............hmmmmmmmmmm what comes to mind ........ Five Ansestors (WuZuQuan http://www.wuzuquan.com/homepage.asp)

If you intersting PM me for details I try and find info on clubs near you......

[IRONMONK]

If you have not developed strong confidence in your fighting skills after 8 years, I seriously doubt that Thai boxing or some other fighting form is going to be any better for you. If you feel as if your fists are feathery, buy yourself a pair of brass knuckles. They add lots of power to your punch.

I have confidence in my skill and I still like wing chun but I'm paying money for classes when I could get the same training effect just by training myself and with a training partner.

[IRONMONK]

And you'd be wise to take that vagueness at face value, regardless of his motivations.

Because focusing on short power is just that: short. On practicality. Because you need to develop power in all kinds of strikes, whether they be short, medium, or long range. It's not practical to think that short range power is all you'll need.

For example, the one inch punch is nonsense. And throwing chain punches from just 6-8-10-12 inches away is also limited in what it will do for you. Throwing any kind of punch that never travels more than 12 inches or so will never cut it.

You want to be able to fight well?

Then you better develop power with all kinds and ranges of punches (and other strikes).

yeah i just used short power as an example so I agree there is more to fighting than short power.
Even if I ask about kicking/punching power technique I get no satisfactory answer and now feel maybe have to look at other arts to improve my fighting skills.
Also the fact that his senior students have all left is an indicator that he is holding back.

[Lucas]

some people arent reading your posts fully....:rolleyes:

get used to it here. ;)



Also the fact that his senior students have all left is an indicator that he is holding back.

perhaps he carried them as far as he could. is he truly holding back, or is he holding you back? maybe he only has so much to offer.

[anerlich]

perhaps he carried them as far as he could. is he truly holding back, or is he holding you back? maybe he only has so much to offer.

I think Lucas has hit the nail on the head.

To be fair though, if you've been there eight years, it is not that unusual to have most of your seniors leave. Eight years is a big chunk of time in which life circumstances can change. Marriage, kids, moves, injuries, illness, changing interests, ... some people don't need to train that long to feel they've achieved what they wanted to achieve in an MA.

I've been with my instructor twenty years. None of my seniors train regularly any more and have not done so for years. Only a couple of other guys have passed 15 years and still train. In my experience it's very rare to find people that have stuck with an instructor and still train actively for over a decade, even with the best instructors. I sometimes wonder why I keep going myself.

I took up BJJ after about ten years of WC. It gave me a second wind. Maybe taking up something new will work for you as well.

[Vajramusti]

Wing chun is not for everyone specially when sustained and progressive good instruction is lacking.
Suggest you find the best instructor that you can find in some other art if you are still interested
in TCMA.
There are folks who are learning other arts specially when their progressive learning of wing chun is at a standstill.

joy chaudhuri

[HumbleWCGuy]

I kick box and I feel like my kickboxing and Wing Chun fit together seamlessly. They supplement each other in some areas and complement each other in different areas. To be honest, either art would probably give you what you are missing from your instructor.

[Wong Fai]

Hello,
I am new to this forum but have trained in Wing Chun and other arts for 30 years. IMHO if you have studied Wing Chun or any art for 8 years then you should be pretty good and have a base of knowledge and skills to carry you forward for a lifetime. Try teaching someone else (as you probably already do in class). You will see your art from a new perspective and hopefully come to know if better. However, there is nothing wrong with trying something new. Take what is useful. Good luck.

[AdrianK]

the more finer details
for example every time i ask about short power he will give a vague explanation

Many "Secrets" and "Finer Details" can be revealed through ones self, through hard training, sparring and thought.

If your Sifu had these finer details, you should have been watching him, and by watching him you won't need him to say anything, you can figure it out for yourself.

[Paul T England]

The days of wing chun instructors holding information back should be close to an end with MMA, DVDs and the internet but don't give up hope on your wing hcun. Learning a different art like Eskrima or thai boxing can help your wing chun if you keep the wing chun principles.

If you are anywhere near Newcastle, give me a shout and come along to a class....I will answer every question I can and if I can't I will point you in the right direction. If you are in Stockport, London or Southhampton check out WSL family Ving Tsun or look for one of Alan Orr's guys.

After you have done all the learning (8 years should be about it) then all you have is training so you will find that you are not actually learning new forms, techniques etc. Your instructor and seniors can fine tune your technique and push you but your mind is the most important element.

Paul
www.moifa.co.uk

[Lindley]

Iron Monk,

These last three posts should really give you (and everyone) a good perspective on what advanced martial arts training is really about. You are frustrated because his explanantions seem "vague". Keep in mind that many discoveries are made by experience and that one can often not explain how they got "it". Do you remember when and how you learned to speak? Try as you must, you cannot "teach" certain things, but they are ingrained by experience, by watching and paying attention. It was a great suggestion that you teach someone else, you will be amazed how much comes out that you never realized you learned. Teaching also forces you to bring different ideas together. So you want to learn about "Short" power? Why not sit and figure out what does this mean to you? if you go through your forms, the muk jong, the weapons, do you see any areas even close to his "vague" explanations? There are so many answers in the Ving Tusn System that are non-apparent to those who feel it all must come from the Sifu. After 8 years, you should be working on the "inside" relationsihp with your Sifu and not just continuing to be some regular student paying tuition.

Good luck with your Kung Fu!

[Yoshiyahu]

Some of your questions spark my interest. What are some of your specific questions. That you feel went unanswered. Asked them here on the Forum so we can all take a crack at it.

As for Short Power.

Was your question about...

What is short power?

How do you apply it?

How do you cultivate it?

Short power is simple. Short power simply means being able to strike with out drawing back your arm...

Most fighting styles utlize Short and Midrange power.


Western Boxing and Wing Chin uses short power and Midrange power.

Of course Boxing places more emphasis on mid range power and WC places more emphasis on short range.

Some styles also use long range power. Like Hung gar, Choy li Fut and Chang Quan.

The only difference is the directional force that is issued and angles it is relinquished.

[Violent Designs]

I practice Muay Thai. You will love it. Give it a shot, see how you do.

BTW I'm shorter than you, about same weight. After 8 years you should be able to kick some ass at least.

Do yourself good justice and start training in a full-contact style where sparring and conditioning is a daily thing and where sweat and tears fly, and improvements happen every day, week, and month.

[bawang]

hi ironmonk

all chinese kung fu needs u to train your muscles and lift weights
every single one

there are good kung fu styles and there are bad kung fu styles
and there are sh1t kung fu styles
taking years to fight good is a lie. you shouldve been fighting good after the first year. your sifu milked u

[Liddel]

After eight years in any art you will stagnate to a degree, because this is the fine tuning stage that goes on for the rest of you abled life....

Sifu's holding back for money or being vauge because they just dont know is one thing.

But if you feel confident in sparring different styes with WC and have used it for self protection for real then it sounds like you've just begun to plateau which is a natural part of any training/learning.

Go find new friends to sparr with visit another school and touch hands etc etc

The reality of fighting is you should kmow the material fairly quick and then its just taking that material and drill drill drill train train train.

Youll get better at fighting but wont be learning anything new per sey.

Just my POV.

DREW

[HumbleWCGuy]

The problem that you are attributing to WC is a problem that everyone experiences no matter the martial art. I think that instructors are partially to blame for their students failures
There are several problems that I see with martial arts instructors.

1. They lack the vocabulary to teach concepts, principles, and strategies because they were not taught to them explicitly but earned a tacit understanding through hours of sparring and training.

2. Many instructors just aren't as articulate as they need to be to teach. Even if they do know they are unable to communicate ideas effectively.

3. Teaching martial arts requires a level of commitment that I am not sure that all instructors make. Teaching requires that you keep your own skills at an acceptable level to provide instruction for students. In addition, teaching requires a level of organization in order to properly present and refine the curriculum.


Finally, having said all of that. If you are looking to be spoon fed it ain't gonna happen. I recommend that you take responsibility for your lack of ability. As they say "Free your mind and your a** will follow." Begin reading, watching DVD's, and exploring other arts as different instructors and/or arts often have different emphasis and present different pieces of the puzzle. AND, put the new ideas in to practice. I have only known a few people to commit themselves like this but the ones who have typically surpass their instructors in knowledge.

[RGVWingChun]

Lots of great advice given here....I like what was said about making WC your own and you certainly have to do that....the idea of looking to other people to see what they have to say and why they do...I am not ashamed to say that I have tested the knowledge of my own lineage with the knowledge of others...sometimes it is the same with different vocabulary and sometimes it is completely different and I just take what I think is useful for my purpose in learning Wing Chun. Somebody mentioned the teachers lack of skill to teach.....I mean lets face it, there are some good fighters who are not teachers...recall Ip Man's sifu Chan Wa Shun and his method of teaching vs the more elaborate and well versed instruction that he got from Leung Bik, his Si-Pak. I also like what was said about taking responsiblity for your own WC....this is so true!!! I personally enjoy Ip Ching's expression of Wing Chun but I don't hesitate to say that I might not employ certain techniques the way he does because I just don't have the experience for them yet or have no need....I have learned from several of Ip Ching's students and each of them has given me a different perspective on the art that is Wing Chun....

not sure what you are lacking or what you think you are missing....if its short power your want, you need to look to your Siu Lim Tao training and check your energy there....as it is, the short power is already being performed in your Siu Lim Tao....everything you need is in the forms....train train train!!! Do thousands of Cup Jarns, Shift shift shift, work the jong for hours at a time....YOU need to find these things! You can't expect to be spoon fed all the time....then you'll never make a good teacher yourself....

hope that helps out a bit,

Moses

[SoCo KungFu]

Set aside your forms and put away that giant Pinocchio. Find some sparring partners. You want progressive challenge? There it is. You're only as good as your partners can push you. Push each other to get better and everyday is a constantly renewing challenge. You won't ever get bored. Competent sparring partners make even the simplest combo something you look forward to working on.

Make your art your own. But that ain't gonna happen through forms or with that big toothpick. I'm not gonna tell you to go take up MT or boxing or MMA. But seriously give it a shot at working some really resistant sparring sessions. You will find all the challenge you need to get that fire going again.

[Yoshiyahu]

Set aside your forms and put away that giant Pinocchio. Find some sparring partners. You want progressive challenge? There it is. You're only as good as your partners can push you. Push each other to get better and everyday is a constantly renewing challenge. You won't ever get bored. Competent sparring partners make even the simplest combo something you look forward to working on.

Make your art your own. But that ain't gonna happen through forms or with that big toothpick. I'm not gonna tell you to go take up MT or boxing or MMA. But seriously give it a shot at working some really resistant sparring sessions. You will find all the challenge you need to get that fire going again.

When you are at home alone...An have no partners at that moment. Is okay to practice your forms then...Are do you believe that

Form Practice
Muk Yan Jong Practice
Punching and kicking the air


Are these things useless when you have no one to spar with?

In other words what do you do when your not sparring?

[Ng Mui]

Easy to find a job, hard to find a good job.

Easy to find a mate, hard to find a good mate.

Easy to find someone who teaches martial arts, hard to find a good teacher.

8 years with Wing Chun and you are fed up. Does not matter if you leave and train in this or that, if teacher who teaches this or that can't teach.

After 8 years you should have a good grasp of what you don't wont and of what you do want.

Go find it.

[hulkout]

8 years training and now you're fed up? What were you doing in those 8 years? I'm sorry but I've seen this before. The length of time you train in something is meaningless. It's the quality of work that you do. I see a similar thing in gyms all the time. People who've been going to the gym for 10 or 15 years, go on the treadmill, do a few dumbbell curls, and go home, and then wonder why they're not progressing. Then they tell their friends that they're giving up because after 10 years of hard training, they're not progressing. A bad sifu is no excuse. If he was really that bad, it shouldn't have taken 8 years to figure that out. And a lot of major breakthroughs and learning come from things you learn outside the classroom. Sounds like you weren't doing your homework. I know you might get ****ed off and think I'm being rude, but that's exactly what it sounds like. If you were working hard, you should have been able to kick some ass after the first year or so. And if your sifu wasn't doing any sparring after the first year or so, that should have been your cue to leave. Like I said, what were you doing during those 8 years?

[ChinaBoxer]

One time i ordered Chinese food from this place, i ordered my favorite, peking duck, when i got it, i tried it and...yuck! worst f'n thing i ever had.

A few days later, i found another Chinese place and ordered peking duck, when i tried it, wow..it was amazing!

my point is this, just because you got a "bad taste" of wing chun from one instructor, doesn't mean you should never order wing chun again. it's not the restaurant that's bad, it's the cook.

so i would definitely give another wing chun instructor a try, but here's one detail that i think you should look for, make sure that the instructor is also small framed in structure and not a big guy, why? because he has the same issues as you do, and can help you answer some of your questions as a result.

don't give up!

also, take a look at my 70 or so videos on Chinese Boxing at http://thechinaboxer.com especially the videos related to wing chun, which might help you out. keep at it!

Jin

[Yoshiyahu]

So true. But I have heard some people share they stay in small towns where there is maybe one school in 300 miles that teaches Wing Chun. So their choices are limited and sometimes they are force to take up another art.

So alot of times availabilty plays a big part too. If your WC school is only one in your state and it sucks. You may have to give up WC altogether or move to a different state.

Yea, But I always wondered what the Mainland WC schools were like in California?




One time i ordered Chinese food from this place, i ordered my favorite, peking duck, when i got it, i tried it and...yuck! worst f'n thing i ever had.

A few days later, i found another Chinese place and ordered peking duck, when i tried it, wow..it was amazing!

my point is this, just because you got a "bad taste" of wing chun from one instructor, doesn't mean you should never order wing chun again. it's not the restaurant that's bad, it's the cook.

so i would definitely give another wing chun instructor a try, but here's one detail that i think you should look for, make sure that the instructor is also small framed in structure and not a big guy, why? because he has the same issues as you do, and can help you answer some of your questions as a result.

don't give up!

also, take a look at my 70 or so videos on Chinese Boxing at http://thechinaboxer.com especially the videos related to wing chun, which might help you out. keep at it!

Jin

[ChinaBoxer]

So true. But I have heard some people share they stay in small towns where there is maybe one school in 300 miles that teaches Wing Chun. So their choices are limited and sometimes they are force to take up another art.

So alot of times availabilty plays a big part too. If your WC school is only one in your state and it sucks. You may have to give up WC altogether or move to a different state.

Yea, But I always wondered what the Mainland WC schools were like in California?
you got a good point there, but he's from the UK where Wing Chun is extremely popular, so finding another school is like finding another starbucks. Here is Southern California, WC is not nearly as popular, here MMA is the big deal.

[JPinAZ]

Actually, there are a good amount of WC instructors in California. A quick google search shows there are many in the LA area and quite a few in San Diego.

Example: http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55231

[ChinaBoxer]

Actually, there are a good amount of WC instructors in California. A quick google search shows there are many in the LA area and quite a few in San Diego.

Example: http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55231
from LA to San Diego is 2 1/2 hour drive at least, but i understand what you're saying. but do you realize how frigin popular wing chun/ving tsun is in the UK? here's a quick list here (http://www.wcarchive.com/html/schools/wing-chun-schools-united-kingdom.htm)

[Yoshiyahu]

from LA to San Diego is 2 1/2 hour drive at least, but i understand what you're saying. but do you realize how frigin popular wing chun/ving tsun is in the UK? here's a quick list here (http://www.wcarchive.com/html/schools/wing-chun-schools-united-kingdom.htm)

Wow...driving two hours three to four days a week to go to Kung fu class then 2 hours back to go home to go to sleep....if your class is over with at 9pm you will be getting home about 11:30pm I hope you dont have to be at work at 7am in the morning...ha ha...

Yea WC has gain alot of popularity in Europe. I wonder how much of it is watered down now though?

[JPinAZ]

Jin,

I understand that SD and LA are a bit of a distance apart. I wasn't sure what you were ecompassing when saying "here in Southern California", so I mentioned both. But, that's still a shorter drive than between some of the ones on that list in England. So, I think we're talking the same thing. And, just speaking of California alone, going up the coast, there is also a more WC schools as well (San Fran area).
My point: there are a lot good WC teachers to chose from just in California alone, let alone the whole US. To say WC is more popular in England might not be entirely accurate.

And, as Yoshi mentioned, you'd also have to look at the quality of instruction as well. (not that I really care to compare 'su' vs' them' or such things)

JP

[ChinaBoxer]

Jin,

I understand that SD and LA are a bit of a distance apart. I wasn't sure what you were ecompassing when saying "here in Southern California", so I mentioned both. But, that's still a shorter drive than between some of the ones on that list in England. So, I think we're talking the same thing. And, just speaking of California alone, going up the coast, there is also a more WC schools as well (San Fran area).
My point: there are a lot good WC teachers to chose from just in California alone, let alone the whole US. To say WC is more popular in England might not be entirely accurate.

And, as Yoshi mentioned, you'd also have to look at the quality of instruction as well. (not that I really care to compare 'su' vs' them' or such things)

JPtrue true, but in Europe, UK, Germany...Wing Chun/Ving Tsun is a billion dollar industry, due largely in part to Leung Ting, which is a whole nother can of worms..

but here in the states, MMA is the king of martial arts study, anyways, it seems we're getting off the subject, but i do understand your point.

Jin

[Yoshiyahu]

true true, but in Europe, UK, Germany...Wing Chun/Ving Tsun is a billion dollar industry, due largely in part to Leung Ting, which is a whole nother can of worms..

but here in the states, MMA is the king of martial arts study, anyways, it seems we're getting off the subject, but i do understand your point.

Jin

ChinaBoxer you will come to learn. That many people will disagree with you just to be disagreeable. Get use it to buddy. Just make light of it. Don't take certain characters to seriously. I have list on my computer of those posters who when they post something for me I will only respond in Jest. Because they are not going to do anything but disagree. Shoot they disagree even when I been facecious.

So just let it roll of your back like water on a ducks back....

If you want to disagree on something lets disagree together.

But yea, your right MMA is the big craze in USA. Its America pass time. WC and Kyohsukin karate are very big in Europe. Depending on where you go. But everyone will not always agree. But I think ChinaBoxer that some people are trying to say that San Franscio and New York are the USA's Mecca's for Kung Fu? Yea. There is a bit of Baugazhang and Wing Chun and Xing Yi Quan done in NY and Cali. This is what I have seen so far. So those two places are states to go too if your interested in Chinese Boxing. But you may be right that WC is more widespread in Europe than it is in USA. I personally think the best quality of WC can be found in Tawian and maybe the Phillipines and then VietNam.

[JPinAZ]

And some people just have differing views - nothing to due with disagreeing just to be disagreeable. IMO, we shouldn't take this site with a bunch of aliased unkowns too seriously. I would say there's no water to roll off anyone's back here - Immediately after something is written/said, it's already water under the bridge :)

BTW, Welcome to the forum Jin!

[IRONMONK]

I've taken a break from wing chun but I do intend to look around at different wing chun classes.

[LSWCTN1]

you got a good point there, but he's from the UK where Wing Chun is extremely popular, so finding another school is like finding another starbucks. Here is Southern California, WC is not nearly as popular, here MMA is the big deal.

wck is very popular here - but that does tend to mean that its harder (% wise) to find good instruction...




Yea WC has gain alot of popularity in Europe. I wonder how much of it is watered down now though?

see above... although there is a large, multinational 'chain' of wck schools that operate here and they can teach you upto instructor level in 2 years or less (for almost double the regular monthly fee). i think thats quite impressive :p


I've taken a break from wing chun but I do intend to look around at different wing chun classes.

where in the uk are you?

[IRONMONK]

where in the uk are you?

i'm in north London

I've already checked out a few other classes but I didn't like what was being taught (kamon, simon lau and austin goh lineage)

[Yoshiyahu]

i'm in north London

I've already checked out a few other classes but I didn't like what was being taught (kamon, simon lau and austin goh lineage)

what was being taught you didnt like?

[KenWingJitsu]

Thai boxing.

Your chi-sao will help you in the clinch and will at least keep you from getting elbowed in the mouth.

If you had decent training, your punches should be 'tighter'.
Now you get to train all the things wing chun doesn't teach you, like contact, changing footwork, wierd angles, unpredictability.
If you stick with it, you can bring out some WC in your MT.