Fatsan Bak Mei Clip

[TongLongJai]

I don't know anything much about Bak Mei, though it interest me, but i seen this guys clips here before and just saw on youtube subscriptions he has a new one I thought people may interested in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhJnG2AEwIY

the previous clips are here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFJ0CPbcA3A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lH_-vnP47aA

[ittokaos]

I knew that guy was from our lineage.

[Violent Designs]

A lot of same techniques in CLF too.

Bak Mei is really interesting

[acuboy]

In California this lineage of Bak Mei is taught by sifu Zhong Luo at DragonHouseMMA.

dragonhousemma.com

[sanjuro_ronin]

Nice clips, the stances are a tad different then the Pak Mei I have seen and experienced and he doesn't seem to "sink, spit and so forth" as much as other types, but good stuff.

[ittokaos]

Nice clips, the stances are a tad different then the Pak Mei I have seen and experienced and he doesn't seem to "sink, spit and so forth" as much as other types, but good stuff.

His stances are wider than I was taught(for usage anyway but then again he seems taller) and it seems that he focuses more on speed than power for his strikes(from what i get the CLC guys are the opposite). That would be the reason why he doesnt over emphasize the sink, swallow, spit, float.

I was suprized about the staff usage. We do those drills but we dont use them for strikes. It's funny because I have seen one of my Sifu's Bak Mei teachers use that type of strike against him once but he is from a different Bak Mei lineage. Similar but different part of China.

I love these type of vids because they give me new drills to work that I might not have figured out on my own. Also, they show applications and training which is something that is rarely shown by CLC guys however almost all the Futsan guys do it(and most on youtube ;P). Hopefully we can get the CLC guys to put some up like this so we can share and educate each other instead of pointless bashing.

[sanjuro_ronin]

It is probably due to his tall and lanky built, with long limbs.
Bak Mei is more short limbed designed I quess, not that anyone can't make it work for them.
Would have been nice to see some sparring too.
Its my experience that "machine gun" attacks tend to "fall apart" in full contact situations.

[cerebus]

Cool. But that was some serious "babelfish" translation they had in the subtitles... :D

[Lai See]

Fair play to the bloke, he says often enough that this is different from CLC Pak Mei.

Can't say fairer than that. Now, if only folk paid attention we'd be laughing. :-)

[Yum Cha]

It is probably due to his tall and lanky built, with long limbs.
Bak Mei is more short limbed designed I quess, not that anyone can't make it work for them.
Would have been nice to see some sparring too.
Its my experience that "machine gun" attacks tend to "fall apart" in full contact situations.

Hi Sanjuro,
CLC was tall and lanky. Lam Yu Gwai (Dragon style) was built like a keg. Big insight into the differences between the arts.

Machine gun attacks either work, OR fall apart (regroup?) I suggest, across all styles. i.e. how many MMA bouts end in less than 1 or 2 minutes? The show I watch always starts with one or two before going into longer bouts.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Hi Sanjuro,
CLC was tall and lanky. Lam Yu Gwai (Dragon style) was built like a keg. Big insight into the differences between the arts.

Machine gun attacks either work, OR fall apart (regroup?) I suggest, across all styles. i.e. how many MMA bouts end in less than 1 or 2 minutes? The show I watch always starts with one or two before going into longer bouts.

Thanks for the insight into the developers of those systems, makes sense.
I have never, in all my 30+ years in the MA, seen the "machine gun" combos work in ful contact, be them from Kenpo, WC, bak mei, spm or whatever.
Heck I don;t even see people do them on the HB, much less a person that is hitting back.
Sure they look cool in demos where the guy just stands there and the striker is not really hitting anything hard enough for the impact and recoil to through off the smoothness of the strikes, in the real world of full contact where you have to hit hard enough to hurt, it doesn't seem to pan out that way.

[TAO YIN]

What is a "maching gun" attack?:confused:

[TAO YIN]

typos aside:

WTF is a "Machine Gun" attack?:confused:

[sanjuro_ronin]

typos aside:

WTF is a "Machine Gun" attack?:confused:

A very fast combination of strikes done in a "blur"" like fashion.
Typically done in the air or done by "tapping" a demo partner but never actually seen done in a full contact situation or with any real "power".
Typically.

[TAO YIN]

I can't open the clip. Is it one of those things where the "student" throws one strike and the "master" throws ten? How many can you throw and land before your opponent does the same? "Machine Gun" attacks are all about getting in range with an escape route. They are not so much ****ed if you do ****ed if you don't attacks. A king hit is more of a hit or miss thing, but it holds that ko power. Anyway, I've only ever been able to throw 3, or 4 of anything at most on a good day, irregardless of how the combo flows. That's standing or grappling. Opponents react. Cheers and thanks for the clarification.

[Yum Cha]

Hi Sanjuro,

I began to wonder if we were talking about the same thing with 'machine gun' attacks. I read what you wrote, and discovered we weren't, or not exactly.

I think 'overwhelming' attacks is probably better language for what I'm trying to describe. Those 'stand in one place and flurry your arms' demos aren't what I'm thinking of.

First point of difference is footwork. If you're not barging over the opponent, its just show / 'demo'.

I think of the MMA style charges with kick, punch, punch, clinch, knee, knee...

In TCMA, you'll sometimes see a charge of straight punches that sets the opponent on their heels and smacks them backwards across the ring repeatedly.

To me, the key technique is the pressing footwork and the taking of the opponent's space.

So, lets put that machine gun on an APC...

[Violent Designs]

A very fast combination of strikes done in a "blur"" like fashion.
Typically done in the air or done by "tapping" a demo partner but never actually seen done in a full contact situation or with any real "power".
Typically.

like wing chun chain punching

[Lai See]

To me, the key technique is the pressing footwork and the taking of the opponent's space.

So, lets put that machine gun on an APC...


Jik Bou. :cool:

Sorry had to, couldn't help myself .... <slap wrist>

[Lai See]

like wing chun chain punching

I snickered just then, so I did.

[Violent Designs]

I snickered just then, so I did.

tell us how u really feel. dont hold back

[sanjuro_ronin]

like wing chun chain punching

Or the things we typically see in American kenpo demos, yes.

Here is the thing, when we actually HIT something with resistence, that thing stops ore momentum, it "throws off" our flow and it HITS back and it moves, what it never does it just stand there.
Now, it MAY happen every blue moon that one finds a willing sucker, but we have to deal with the realities of combat and not the "hope for the best" of combat.

Yum cha,
If by "overwhelming attack" you mean when the striker hits and follows up based on the reaction fo the opponent then yes, I agree those work very well, but if by "overwhelming attack" you mean hitting in a predetermined sequence hoping that the target will be there, not so much.

[goju]

vitor belfort vs vanderlie silva is an example of ah machine gun attack working

he pretty much just chain punched him across the ring:D

[Violent Designs]

vitor belfort vs vanderlie silva is an example of ah machine gun attack working

he pretty much just chain punched him across the ring:D

Not really.

chain punch is not powerful strike. they are vertical punches suppose to be from centerline if i'm correct.

what Vitor did was ****ing barrage power straights into Wanderlei's face. very very different mechanics.

learn2spell

[Yum Cha]

... if by "overwhelming attack" you mean hitting in a predetermined sequence hoping that the target will be there, not so much.

Hey, everybody starts with the "predetermined"sequence, any style, any art.

That's the difference between being beginner and advanced, just how predetermined your are and how well you adapt, innovate and predict. Pretty universal concept. Do you take me for such a fool, hobbit? :D

[TenTigers]

If you really examine the systems that use "machine gun " tactics, you will find that these are openers, used to close the gap, get you in their space, inflict pain,damage, and confusion, so as to land a telling blow.
They set up much harder finishing blows that are also found in these systems.
Wing chun has other strikes besides chain punches, as do all the other systems.
The problem is when people outside the system judge the entire system based on what is actually a very small portion. The problem is also that it is also what most people put out there, so who can blame them?

As far as Kenpo goes-I think people miss the point with that. There is supposed to be complete connection with these strikes-shifting, sinking,etc. When they do demos, the strikes are faster and do not posess the power that they do when they are done correctly.
The other thing, is sure, they are based on the opponent's body reaction to the strikes. If I hit you to the groin, your body bends forward which sets me up for the next shot, etc.
Good Kenpo players are always in contact with their uki, controlling their bodies with grabs and checks.
Bad Kempo players perform their dance of death, while their uki stands there with the lock-out punch.

Why is it that the people who are the most prolific, write the most articles, are out there the most,have the biggest names...
are usually some of the worst examples of their art?

[acuboy]

Hi All

To get back to the original topic of Bak Mei, I have seen the "machine gun" approach work very effectively. Master Zhong Luo often explains it as a quick combination of punches that are always launched from different angles (unlike chain punching). I think it is similar to combinations in western boxing, however you always alternate arms when striking in order to link the power of the strike with the recoil. This type of striking is completely linked to the ever moving bak mei foot work. You don't just stand there and flail your arms about. However, this type of punching is not typically used as an entry in bak mei. Like most martial arts it begins with a bridge or most often, with feinting and slipping to avoid the opponent's initial attack. This type of footwork and body movement is emphasized in bak mei forms and drills, however rarely shown in partner demonstrations. As TennTigers pointed out the combinations are often linked to their intended outcome on the opponent. This is where the principles of sinking, spitting, etc. of bak mei come into play. However, I can only speak for the lineage of Fushan Bak Mei, of which the gentleman in the video and Master Zhong Luo are part of. I have watched many of the videos of CLC bak mei forms and I think they are quite different.

take care
acuboy

[Hebrew Hammer]

Love this guys speed, power, and fluidity. For those of you who are arguing the 'machine gun' approach, one often assumes you know the the attack is coming much like an MMA match but in real world type applications, violence of action in a random encounter can make all the difference.